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There is light at the end of the tunnel. A hulk.

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Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.15 18:58:00 - [31] Whatever changes to mining you make or whatever the ORE Capital is, for the love of Jove, NERF jet can mining. I hate doing it and its a simply retarded workaround for a problem that shouldn't exist. I'd rather mine in a Dread than a Hulk, simply because of the cargo. PS: I haven't mined since 2004. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Got Alliance? Contact me ingame for alliance creation services.
Topaz Skydiver	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:57:00 - [32] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 15/02/2007 20:03:38 Originally by: Khu Marx Oh, calm both of you. We all have our money maker. I am the money maker. And besides, I haven't seen ships being build out of janitors yet. Something or someone has to pay for the fun. Some like ratting for a bit of money to pvp. Others do mining to get money and ships for pvp. Yes, I understand, was just wondering, why someone is so fixeated on mining. Ok, now you say that you are not. Ofc I do pvp and carebearing, but I'm not stick with a specific form of carebearing. I can mine, haule, refine, trade, produce tech1/tech2, research, rat, salvage, explore+hack, run lvl4. missions, which includes also the proper skills, like exhumers, ore specs, specific production, research and trade skills, freighters and transport ships, covert ops/recons/astrometrics/hacking. Some of those skills on my industrial char, some on some of my pvpers some on all chars. So I don't feel limited. I'm not pvp/miner, but pvp'er/universal carebear in one person. edit: and yes, my industrial char is going the capital route, too now. Trained him already gallente bs 5 and drone interfacing 5, when I needed a long skill => carrier carebear and then we'll see.
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:02:00 - [33] My alt got Exhumers 5 this morning and once I have a few more mining related skills I'm done. You're right about nothing else to do regarding mining so I may go the Capital ship route just for something to do. __________________________________
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:42:00 - [34] IMO, You cant fix mining, without fixing hauling first. A solo miner in high-sec, low-sec, or 0.0 needs to have a hauler account to keep up with mining, so If your a miner you need at least 2 accounts to do It right... Why not make some sort if barge that has a HUGE capacity, but only for ores (not minerals, not items, just ore) that has a slight increase in laser time... That would make me very very very happy! __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =-
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:14:00 - [35] I've put all the cargo expander II's and cargo optimizers that will fit on my hulk and gotten 16k or so m3 of cargo space out of it. I lose smidgen of mining speed but more than make up for it on the ability to self truck if there's a station in the system. Warp to 0 allows me to BM the asteroid I was working on and come out right on top of it again about 60 seconds later. Works fine for me.
Cloora APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Taran Summers I've put all the cargo expander II's and cargo optimizers that will fit on my hulk and gotten 16k or so m3 of cargo space out of it. I lose smidgen of mining speed but more than make up for it on the ability to self truck if there's a station in the system. Warp to 0 allows me to BM the asteroid I was working on and come out right on top of it again about 60 seconds later. Works fine for me. Yeah but until you get to that point you are screwed. A Retreiver can't get a cargo space above 3000m3. And it takes a LOT of time to get to a Hulk or even a Coveter. The small size of cargo holds on barges and the small size of Secure cans really hurts the noob miner. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited Pilot of the ACV Digger (Retriever) ACV Respite (Carcacel) "It's none of my business what I think of you."
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:20:00 - [37] I have a Alt who is my main miner. He has a Hulk with Exhumers 4 T2 Mining Drones with Drone Interfacing to 4 T2 Strip Miners with T2 Crystals for about 6 Ore types. Cybernetics 4 with that 3% mining boost Implant. I have 100% refining on the 6 types of Ore I can T2 mine. And so on... Even with all this, you can see I still have a long time to go before I am a Perfect Miner. Are there any people out there who have hit that wall? It seems like that would be really hard to pull off. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Ket Halpak ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:36:00 - [38] This thread delivers. For the love of life CCP, give some loving to the miners! We hear about the need for speed, but mining is still slow. There are some great ideas in this thread, use them!!! ____________________________________Any views expressed in the above post are my own and not those of my corp unless otherwise stated as such. If you are reading the above post, the
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:11:00 - [39] believe it or not this has been asked for and asked for over and over again. Still nothing has changed, would be great if a DEV could shed some light on this and the reason why mining isn't getting any loving but a steadily whack of the nerf bat over and over again... pretty yellow beams
cdenera	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:57:00 - [40] Well Im just waiting for refining efficency to 5 like other players then I will be able to train all other ore types, after that mining forman so 30 days and im done with the mining stuff, Seeing as thats all I want to be what next ! its kind of daft really as it only took me a mear 9 months to get a miner able to pretty much out isk a ratter and I know im abou to get flamed but beleve me I also have a ratter/ PvP alt who has to find decent spawn and closly guard and chain his rats to make decent isk, where mining decent stuff can make 100 mill in a few hours it takes the ratter a much longer time. TBH making isk as a miner in 0.0 is quite easy hitting the right roids but its as boring doing either ratting or mining at least in a mining gang you have company and can chat ratting is usually a solo carrer thus ends up very boring hence most players end up with 2 accounts one miner thats pretty much maxed after a few monthe towards mining, But after mining skills why not aim at industry skills so you can make stuff to sell so to go along with your industry skills your also goingto need trading skills and manufacturing skills so you have more slots on the market and able to use more manufacturing / research slots, their is a good 6 months of training, giving CCP more time to come up with ways for you to spend your training time, If you just want to mine and sell your ore then your seriously liminting yourself ( yeh I knowI cant spell that well but you get the point ) any way back on track, To become a good not just a decent industrialist you have a good 18 months of training to max your skills, it can take that long for a PvP person to become good and not just decent accross a braud range. Yes I know you can hold your own as a PvP artist aginst some older players but the older player can swap ship and fitting unlike a newer player who is limited to basic skills for some stuff decent for other and good for some, the miner / trader can be excellent in 18 months then look at other non mining trading skills they are a bonus especially if you do decide to ove to 0.0 into a corp / alliance you can then fall back on your PvP trained skills to help defend your mining ground in the knowladge when you hit the roids you will be raking in more than the PvP / ratting army as the will be paying you for new ships and equipment. Suppose im trying to say diversify make the most of what you have, ! so you have maxed your mining and hauling skills, if your in 0.0 do you want to run the risk of being popped running your expensive mins to empire through 15 jumps or more or set up some alts and carrier it in yourself ? the possabilities are endless look at the game see howyou can make it work for you as getting carrir is another 9 months for some for basic skills let alone decent ones. rant over it is JUST A GAME
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Khu Marx ... And then maybe. The ORE capital. But other then that, where exactly can a miner grow? ... And sadly, in typical Eve fashion, this ORE capitol will suck at combat and probably be only useable in low sec or no sec space. -AS
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.02.17 03:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Khu Marx ... And then maybe. The ORE capital. But other then that, where exactly can a miner grow? ... And sadly, in typical Eve fashion, this ORE capitol will suck at combat and probably be only useable in low sec or no sec space. Well obviously, because at what point would CCP actually go out of their way and actually give industrialists something they actually want when CCP can just thrust something upon them whether they want it or not (coughnew-gang-systemcough)... After all, a ship with no combat capability beyond really strong finger-crossing and lots of prayer would pose an incredible threat to the empires, so it MUST be restricted to low security space! Heaven knows what would happen if players started using a refinery ship in Empire space and recieving yields a fraction of what a FREE refine in any other station could produce, clearly though that would be overpowered and destabilize the markets as some would insist... we would call these people moron pirates, but that would be redundant. And clearly no miner would EVER want a ship that would actually mine more and be able to contain what it mines, contrary to basically every single post ever made by a miner that is, because that would be logical and not require them to use jet-can mining which CCP (and Oveur specifically) have said numerous times is an exploit of the mechanics they never intended, and yet they have ignored this problem not just since day-1, but since BETA-testing. Indeed if CCP would spend one week, no, just one DAY actually looking at the very simple yet over-all ludicrous situation industry is hobbled around every corner, it's a wonder anything gets done at all. Any reasonable person here, or in any of the other numerous threads in the past, has never asked for CCP to do anything more for industry than to fix what is clearly not working or functioning well, and perhaps throw the "work force" a bone every once in a while between the ten to twenty straight things/patches/content-expansions given out explicitly for the combat portion of the game. By Oveur's own words, EVE is "primarily" a PvP game, so how about the part that isn't a PvP component? Logically no matter how small it is, shouldn't it at least be given fair enough treatment to feel somewhat less slighted?
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.02.17 07:50:00 - [43] I dont think its as bad as you make out. Ive got a 20m sp miner alt and hes got at least 5m more worth of stuff to train before hes a maxed out miner. 25m sp for a profession isnt bad imo
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:44:00 - [44] mmm expect CCP to expand that to 30m at some point
Redback911	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:36:00 - [45] The more efficient you make mining - better rates of extraction etc - the lower prices get. So if your only motivation for new stuff is extra profit its a bit of a no-brainer...
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:45:00 - [46] More mining skills doesn't have to be about mining more. Not all gunnery skills are about more damage. Mining skill to increase mining laser optimal range, another to decrease cap use, another to give 200% reduction bonus per level to raw ore volume giving Hulk the equivalent of 80k m3 at lvl 5. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:57:00 - [47] It would be nice have some skills that could increase Strip Miner Range by another 10KM at level 5. Or another drone skill called "Move your ******* ass you stupid mining drone!" which increases their travle speed. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Dendrin Koljn Minmatar Elite United Corp	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:47:00 - [48] Recently the only change to mining I've noticed, is that with the new gang/fleet structure, ore yield over time - especially for small 2-3 gangs, has dropped due to the fact the leader no longer receives bonuses. I'd imagine on a galactic scale it's a shed load less per cycle than it was. I'd like to see bigger holds on the barges....the current sizes basically force miners to jetcan mine....make them more appropriate to the cycle yields. Doubling what they are atm at the very least. 6000m3 (for a covetor) minimum is req. (imho) as this would allow aprox 2 full cycles. 4000m3 for a retriever 2000m3 for the procurer
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.02.17 17:03:00 - [49] Originally by: Redback911 The more efficient you make mining - better rates of extraction etc - the lower prices get. So if your only motivation for new stuff is extra profit its a bit of a no-brainer... Yeah, just like when mining barges were released and tritanium hit an all time high that was ONLY kept in check by the refining value of shuttles and other NPC goods. Or when the modulated mining beams came out and prices on the market only went up while volume spiked. Or perhaps you mean more recently when the Hulk and mining upgrades in particular were released and nocxium shot up. Yes, more production will cause lower prices… sure… For those that may not be paying close enough attention, that was Tech 2 Sarcasm (30% more powerful than T1). Economics does NOT in any way dictate that more production will drive prices down, it is COMPETITION that drives prices down. The proportion of people wanting to mine relative to those that don’t, won’t, or can’t mine in a comparable scale to those dedicated to it is actually quite stable, and it is THOSE miners that have the most influence on the mineral market as a whole. Mineral markets are directly influenced by the demand on the producers by those wanting their minerals, particularly so when there is a rush on for the latest toys (Tier 2 BC’s and Tier 3 BS’s in particular lately, and capital ships before that in Cold War and RMR). No matter what the production of the miner, it is his SELL price and those of his competition that will determine market swings. He may only have 0.01isk/unit invested in a pile of mineral, but that’s irrelevant, he wants to profit just like anyone else and thus he will price according to how much he has to sell, how fast he wants to sell it, and likely how the rest of the market is currently flowing.
Lothendra Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.17 18:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Lothendra on 17/02/2007 18:28:54 Ore compaction module - mid-slot device that compresses ore to 1/10th or 1/100th volume. Only fitable on mining barges, exhumers or maybe the new capital ORE ship? Takes lots of cpu and pg, and the compressed ore can only be refined in a player-owned refinery - or sold on market ... Ore processing module - mid-slot device that refines ore into minerals - takes time to process, varied depending on ore-specific skills and produces minerals & waste byproducts equivalent in total to the volume of ore that was refined. [1] for some reason the forum doesn't like "*****ble"
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.02.17 19:12:00 - [51] Edited by: Kruugore on 17/02/2007 19:08:51 Originally by: Popsikle IMO, You cant fix mining, without fixing hauling first. A solo miner in high-sec, low-sec, or 0.0 needs to have a hauler account to keep up with mining, so If your a miner you need at least 2 accounts to do It right... Why not make some sort if barge that has a HUGE capacity, but only for ores (not minerals, not items, just ore) that has a slight increase in laser time... That would make me very very very happy! or just change it so that current mining ships have a ore hold. same results :) Maybe even add it as a rig? Mr. K VIGILANT JUSTICE CEO/FOUNDER EVE Vault, A Great Community
phillip duncan	Posted - 2007.02.17 19:40:00 - [52] Two things I would like so see that have not been mentioned. 1) audio warning on crystals dieing. 2) A skill to reduce the wear on the crystals.
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:37:00 - [53] I can see several areas that are worth targetting developmentally: 1)One problem is more the limited interaction required of the mining profession. It's can't just be an issue of more RoI, or faster cycle time for the individual. Even the leadership skills are simplistic cycle time adjustments. The only real skill goes into corp management, and having effective practices for high levels of membership activity time. The best option I have seen is to make asteroid fields require active management. Essentially, make them passively dangerous, and allow techniques for reducing or mitigating those hazards. Those same hazards can function almost as an anti-pirate or even anti-blob mechanic. Harvesters would be specialized equipment designed to lower their profile in such situations. Skills and modules which target allies, or the belts themselves would help in this. 2)There isn't enough complexity. Repetitive action does not constitute gameplay. What ships need, is another tab to the scanner button. Miners need to be able to do the same thing for as long as they wish, with no repetitive effort, but run the risk of upsetting the balance of the belt by doing the same thing over and over. By watching the charts or graphs on the scanner tab, they should be able to see change, and react to it somehow to either reverse the imbalance, or lead it somewhere else. Increasing the danger level should increase the extractive rewards of a belt. Ships could specialize in field defense, and gangs could focus on high-risk, high profit extraction. The danger could rise according to the following factors: Number of ships in the belt + number of cans + module activations - pacifying actions + nonpacifying actions. Basically, some modules like weapons would be extremely destructive to the balance, so NPCers and Miners would only get along at low activity levels of each. A raven escort might be able to handle constant shield damage in a belt. On the otherhand, an enemy or competitive rival might take measures to sabotage a belt for weeks by making it unworkable - like salting the earth where even the NPCs avoid it. A blob arriving in a belt would result in heavy attrition. In empire, mining agents could set missions to restabilize belts for the nubs. 3)Engagement is a little too straitforward. Mining could benefit from the adjunct profession of scanning and exploration. This is already under review as far as I understand it. Frankly, the scanner in general needs to be nerfed, particularly on noob ships and shuttles. The more aggressive the platform, the more dimished the scanner intelligence capability should be. Interceptors, AFs and HACs should have primitive scanners, while Covops should have superb ones (when they are not cloaked). Battleships should occupy the middle ground. Also, it might be interesting if most ships could add modules to specialize the ability, but most ships should have some sort of primitive probing ability built in, which would be ok when your scanner usually only gives you vague data that is frequently bogus. Piracy and pvp would become a bit more random then. "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:10:00 - [54] Edited by: Vivus Mors on 18/02/2007 19:07:14 Perhaps we can get a reply, or gesture, or even a dull grunt from someone from CCP (Oveur -was- here, but how about now?) on some of these ideas, suggestions, and issues. Every time one of these threads gets a little steam going behind it, posts just stop and it fades into oblivion along with the other posts of its kind. We should really cling tightly to this as it is important to an extremely important component of EVE, the producers of much of the material that makes much of what there is in EVE. Even if actual population numbers are less than the percentage of mostly-combat players in the population at large, there is no question that person-per-person the effect and influence on the greater game and its goings on is many many times greater than that of the average person, so by that point alone its very clear that some heed should be paid to the questions and concerns of those people regardless of their number. ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:15:00 - [55] Start PvPing? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil 258 bytes over!
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:30:00 - [56] i'ld like to see mining get the loving it deserves, over the 2 years i've been playing the combat orientated professions have given a lot of loving and mining has been repetatly put in the corner with soon (tm) on the top... i'ld love for the devs to prove me wrong and give mining a lot of loving soon (tm) pretty yellow beams
Soporo	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:25:00 - [57] Mining needs serious help. FI: People mine in BS in 0.0, why? Its damned dangerous for the low end barges and a LOT of people cant fly a Hulk which has the slots to actually tank till you can bail. I wonder how many Devs like to mine, nm, I would be astonished if a single one does. Great so we get a damn capital, still nothing else for the guys under 6 months though. Probly my fault, as I am unwilling atm to have another account, anti-metagaming ftl.
Lucio Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.18 23:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Oveur The bigger improvements will be possible when we move the asteroid belts to the same system as exploration and complexes, allowing us to make bigger, more interesting and less predictive belts. This really worry's me! Are CCP gonna screw up the mining profession in the name of making it more "fun"?? Mining doesn't need bigger, more interesting belts. Some refinements to make it less annoying would be nice, simple refinements like mining lasers auto-deactivating when the rock is empty, bringing back asteroids to the directional scanner or even just making it so non-Hulks can tank in 0.0 ************************************************ Wohoo! No more negative sec status. It's a shame it took me TWO YEARS of Carebearing to get rid of a lousy -1.2
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.18 23:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Lucio Originally by: Oveur The bigger improvements will be possible when we move the asteroid belts to the same system as exploration and complexes, allowing us to make bigger, more interesting and less predictive belts. This really worry's me! Are CCP gonna screw up the mining profession in the name of making it more "fun"?? Mining doesn't need bigger, more interesting belts. Some refinements to make it less annoying would be nice, simple refinements like mining lasers auto-deactivating when the rock is empty, bringing back asteroids to the directional scanner or even just making it so non-Hulks can tank in 0.0 You mean screw up even more? in the last year i've been playing i've seen the roids diminish in size and the respwans of ore going from every day to 2 days a week... if they hide the belts there better be roids in there that need a freighter to move per roid.... pretty yellow beams
Doomba Minge Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.02.18 23:50:00 - [60] Originally by: Menthal Originally by: Lucio Originally by: Oveur The bigger improvements will be possible when we move the asteroid belts to the same system as exploration and complexes, allowing us to make bigger, more interesting and less predictive belts. This really worry's me! Are CCP gonna screw up the mining profession in the name of making it more "fun"?? Mining doesn't need bigger, more interesting belts. Some refinements to make it less annoying would be nice, simple refinements like mining lasers auto-deactivating when the rock is empty, bringing back asteroids to the directional scanner or even just making it so non-Hulks can tank in 0.0 You mean screw up even more? in the last year i've been playing i've seen the roids diminish in size and the respwans of ore going from every day to 2 days a week... if they hide the belts there better be roids in there that need a freighter to move per roid.... /signed

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