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Phased Plasma The Scope Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:00:05 - [1] - Quote So as you may well have noticed, there has been a new thread on the upcoming features forums: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=476516&find=unread This introduces daily rewards for small tasks. Pretty much every mmo has them. However, EVE isn't famous or popular for being 'Pretty much the same as every other mmo' or for being 'just another WoW clone' it is famous for challenging the realms of what is deemed acceptable in a game environment. Eve is famous because of the freedom the players have, the sandbox where players create sandcastles and watch them be destroyed. It is the greatest hub of villainy, thievery, scamming, trolling and the likes that no other game has managed to maintain or cater for. This is why eve is a vile piece of crap to some, but a sanctuary for those who like to be able to carve the game to suit their personality, the way they want to be. Eve is what YOU make of it. Very few mmo's out there have these sorts of features and freedom to its players. This is why 9/10 mmo's today are just pay to win WoW clones that get attention for a few weeks then die out. Eve is perfect the way it is. If you want to be successful and rich here, you have to put in the time and the effort to become so. There are ways to do it quicker than others, however this is where one of the most ruling factors of eve come out. Risk vs reward. If you want more reward, you will have to risk what you already have. Sure you can become a trillionaire by farming level 4 missions in high sec, however it will take a long time and has minimum risks. But by risking what you have, you are able to hit that trillion figure in less than 1/4 of the time in a c5 wormhole farming capital escalations. So my question is: Why does ccp feel the need to look over all of this and decide that the game needs to be like all the other mmos, the WoW clones that last a few weeks, the games that are just generic copies of what the last one did successfully. Eve has survived and thrived for more than 10 years now and why is it now, the game is being changed to be like another WoW clone? Skill injectors are a thing that can allow a day 1 player to pay real money to have as much sp as he likes. Sure he won't have the game knowledge or real life skill to use that sp effectively but it seems an awful lot like a WoW feature does it not? "You can earn your way to the top, or if you pay us this amount you are able to get it instantaneously" Although I am not fond of them, I know that skill injectors are somewhat good to a group of older players that put them to good use. However this is where my next :rant: begins. Dailies. I exclaimed why I think they are a terrible idea and why they just make eve stoop down to the level of WoW etc. Sure 10,000 sp per day for killing a rat doesn't sound alot. Read this then: To undock from a station in low sec with a frigate, warp to an asteroid belt and kill a single rat, then dock back up again will take roughly 2 minutes of your time, with relatively low risk dependent on what pocket you are in. So in 1 month (30 days for those not aware) you will gain 300,000 sp. Assuming that the average character gains around 1.75million sp per month, that 300,00 sp equates to roughly 5 days of skill training. So they are offering you an extra 5 days sp, with very low risk and in a whole month you will spend 1 hour of your time, maybe less once you get the hang of the warp button. This free sp is per character and not per account. This means if you spend another 2 hours of your time, you can get that extra 5 days of sp on 2 other characters on the same account. Thats half a month of sp for 3 hours every month. 900,000 sp total. Let's assume that an average eve player has 2 accounts active, 3 characters on each. For every extra account he/she owns is a free multiplier of sp that doesn't take up any more time due to the ability to multi box. So for 3 hours of work every month you can earn 1.8million sp. Just over 1 months worth of free sp. Now if we take this amount, we can extract 1.5million of it with the use of skill extractors. Which at this time cost 236million isk. This will turn it into a skill injector which sells for 643million isk. With some basic maths you can work out that 643 - 236 = 407. Thats 407million isk profit from 1 injector. With 2 accounts you will have 3 of those injectors per month. This equals 1.22billion isk. That's right, that little 10,000 sp you get per day per character over your two accounts will gain you 1.22billion isk. With very little reward. And another bad thing about this is the fact that the sp didn't come from anywhere, at least with extractors and injectors, the sp with taken from 1 character and passed on to another. These daily missions introduce a new, unlimited source of sp that comes out of nowhere. So I beg you ccp, please don't just turn this game into another WoW clone like you are doing right now. Grrr CCP o7 Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1442	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:49:09 - [2] - Quote Ugh, please. Times are changing, EVE is changing. You want this game to be around in 10 years? Well, then the game has to adapted to new generations of audiences. This is one of those adaptions and it's hardly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. You get like 3 million SP a YEAR if you do your little thing every day. Big whoop, who cares. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Phased Plasma The Scope Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:22:31 - [3] - Quote Did you not read it or are you just ignorant? An average eve player with two accounts can generate 1.8mil per month, i know you must be slow minded or something but 1.8mil x 12months does not equal 3million. Its more in the realms of 21.6 million per year. So maybe look at the facts before posting little bee. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 909	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:27:14 - [4] - Quote Yup. First we got the SP transfer, now we get the SP grind. If they keep that up, SP progression over time will be gone soon. Well, it was nice to have a different game around.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 85	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:05:56 - [5] - Quote Ugh, I agree with the OP, dailies are a terrible idea for EVE, keep them away. I also maintain my original opinion on skill point trading in that it's an exceptionally bad idea that should never have even come close to implementation. CCP had better be joking about this SP dailies thing, but given their track record of implementing bad ideas lately (skill trading, removing the watch list, the GONG - which at least got removed) it'l probably happen. CCP - STOP MIMICKING OTHER MMO'S
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 85	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:08:16 - [6] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Ugh, please. Times are changing, EVE is changing. You want this game to be around in 10 years? Well, then the game has to adapted to new generations of audiences. This is one of those adaptions and it's hardly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. You get like 3 million SP a YEAR if you do your little thing every day. Big whoop, who cares. I'd rather see a small dedicated player base stick around than for CCP to turn this into every other game on the market. Heck, I'd rather see it shut down at some point while maintaining integrity than conform to every other game on the market.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 141	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:21:02 - [7] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Ugh, please. Times are changing, EVE is changing. You want this game to be around in 10 years? Well, then the game has to adapted to new generations of audiences. This is one of those adaptions and it's hardly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. You get like 3 million SP a YEAR if you do your little thing every day. Big whoop, who cares. What's the max SP/h? Like 2700 SP/h? In 1 year that's 23,652,000 SP with no dailies. If you do dailies you add 3,650,000 SP on top, that's a 15.4% increase, that is something worth caring about. It's an even bigger % increase when you're not training optimally.
Nick Bete The Scope Gallente Federation 411	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:46:19 - [8] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: I'd rather see a small dedicated player base stick around than for CCP to turn this into every other game on the market. Heck, I'd rather see it shut down at some point while maintaining integrity than conform to every other game on the market. Maybe you would but I rather doubt that CCP employees and investors would. The game is slowly bleeding to death and you people are crying that CCP is trying something to encourage people to log in? Sheesh. Adapt or die.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:19:00 - [9] - Quote Nick Bete wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: I'd rather see a small dedicated player base stick around than for CCP to turn this into every other game on the market. Heck, I'd rather see it shut down at some point while maintaining integrity than conform to every other game on the market. Maybe you would but I rather doubt that CCP employees and investors would. The game is slowly bleeding to death and you people are crying that CCP is trying something to encourage people to log in? Sheesh. Adapt or die. Those aren't the only options. One can always quit. Stuff like this will drive some people away from EVE, while admittedly it will attract certain others. Will the gain in players outweigh the loss in players? I don't know. What I do know is: I don't care if it brings in more players or not, integrity in the core concepts of the game is more important to me than how to squeeze every dollar they can out of this game.
Pix Severus Empty You 3845	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:19:54 - [10] - Quote Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. -ì-ä-à -£-à+¦-äGêâ-Ç
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:25:02 - [11] - Quote Relevant. Most of the solo-mode content in this game has a really bad case of that already. We need to rip out or change the mechanisms which make farming a good way to play the game, not make new ones. A signature :o
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:26:52 - [12] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. I find my self in this boat, and few people are as..well.. conservative about EVE as I am. Maybe it's the fact that I was worried that the 'daily' think would be raw isk or something that makes this idea more palatable. Can't believe it's me saying this, but seeing as how new players are more likely to do pve than older players, these dailies could gasp actually do something to help new players (helping them overcome the early SP total without having to buy SP/injectors). I feel dirty saying that, anyone have any baby wipes?
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:10:46 - [13] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Ugh, I agree with the OP, dailies are a terrible idea for EVE, keep them away. I also maintain my original opinion on skill point trading in that it's an exceptionally bad idea that should never have even come close to implementation. CCP had better be joking about this SP dailies thing, but given their track record of implementing bad ideas lately (skill trading, removing the watch list, the GONG - which at least got removed) it'l probably happen. CCP - STOP MIMICKING OTHER MMO'S CCP did dailies in Dust. That didn't kill it. The game was able to become profitable and retain a pretty diehard user base even on a dying console. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:14:49 - [14] - Quote Nick Bete wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: I'd rather see a small dedicated player base stick around than for CCP to turn this into every other game on the market. Heck, I'd rather see it shut down at some point while maintaining integrity than conform to every other game on the market. Maybe you would but I rather doubt that CCP employees and investors would. The game is slowly bleeding to death and you people are crying that CCP is trying something to encourage people to log in? Sheesh. Adapt or die. Personally I think CCP is also looking at the data gathered with their experience with Dust. The flexibility of having both active and passive SP systems (including dailies) was was pretty well received there. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Sustrai Aditua Irubo Kovu 80	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:16:39 - [15] - Quote I think as business people it's hard to look at WoW's playerbase and not think in terms of snaking a goodly percentage away from them. It's the sort of doctrinal imperative they're schooled by, so seeing it there must be such a temptation even their subconscious minds can't let go of the thought. They must dream about it...WoW players parking their pandas and pulling into the EVE noob ship garage. I'm quite weary of the discussion, frankly. By now, if the professionals can't read their own market, I'm no longer going to try cheering and chanting them into where they should be. I don't get paid for it anyway. They take free advice as seriously as everyone else does, so it's immaterial if I'm correct. I don't even think it's interesting to mull over the possibilities and muse over the lost opportunities, or failed ventures anymore. It's like chewing a stick of gum too long. After all, didn't we just see the masters of economics bailed out of their fatal mistakes with hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars? Hubris...maybe Gordon Gekko shoulda said "hubris is good." It makes as much sense.
Violet Hurst Fedaya Recon 77	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:16:40 - [16] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Relevant. Most of the solo-mode content in this game has a really bad case of that already. We need to rip out or change the mechanisms which make farming a good way to play the game, not make new ones. While EC is a nice and entertaining starting point when it comes to topics surrounding game development, I don't agree with them on everything. Personally I fancy myself some well made skinner boxing.* What's more important though is that Skinner's theories to me present the first halfway scientific approach to finding out what "fun" really is. I'll happily read up on any contrary theories, but so far everything that's been thrown around in my vicinity has been highly esoteric. When it comes to the alternatives to Skinner boxing methods EC present, none of them are very suitable for Eve, since all of them focus more or less on content made by a game's developers. And the design philosophy behind Eve is to basically use as little development time for creating content as possible. That is considered to be the players' job. While one might criticise this there are some significant advantages to this approach. Briefly speaking development time costs money while playing time grants money. And due to the excellent communication methods of the internet, such as wikis, forums, chats and voice coms, developer made content is consumed at ridiculous speeds nowadays, especially when it comes to the mastery aspect mentioned in the EC video. As an example World of Warcraft, a game almost as old as Eve, relies heavily on developer made content to stimulate players. This leads to the majority of their playerbase rushing back to the game whenever a new expansion is announced and then leaving again two weeks later when they've seen everything new. Not only does this lead to high fluctuations in the ammount of playing people, it's in fact only a feasible strategy because the game bills you for every expansion. Back to the topic: I'm neutral towards dailies. I don't see any drawbacks but neither substantial benefits that could be gained from them, as opposed to e.g. the watchlist removal, which in my opinion removed a big incentive to groom a character's reputation. * The emphasis here lies on well made. Stuff like bind-on-pickup items are just plain lazy.
Lengurathmir Elinor Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises 12	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:47:00 - [17] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. FOMO - fear of missing out. This will lead to people farming it for a while and then getting bored and quitting the game alltogether.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:57:42 - [18] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Ugh, I agree with the OP, dailies are a terrible idea for EVE, keep them away. I also maintain my original opinion on skill point trading in that it's an exceptionally bad idea that should never have even come close to implementation. CCP had better be joking about this SP dailies thing, but given their track record of implementing bad ideas lately (skill trading, removing the watch list, the GONG - which at least got removed) it'l probably happen. CCP - STOP MIMICKING OTHER MMO'S CCP did dailies in Dust. That didn't kill it. The game was able to become profitable and retain a pretty diehard user base even on a dying console. Dust is irrelevant, different game, different type of game on top of that; and on a different platform. Yes there were a few players that played both. But the Dust playerbase is not the EVE player base. Dailies do not belong in EVE. Ever. Especially for SP.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:46:41 - [19] - Quote Violet Hurst wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Relevant. Most of the solo-mode content in this game has a really bad case of that already. We need to rip out or change the mechanisms which make farming a good way to play the game, not make new ones. While EC is a nice and entertaining starting point when it comes to topics surrounding game development, I don't agree with them on everything. Personally I fancy myself some well made skinner boxing.* What's more important though is that Skinner's theories to me present the first halfway scientific approach to finding out what "fun" really is. I'll happily read up on any contrary theories, but so far everything that's been thrown around in my vicinity has been highly esoteric. When it comes to the alternatives to Skinner boxing methods EC present, none of them are very suitable for Eve, since all of them focus more or less on content made by a game's developers. And the design philosophy behind Eve is to basically use as little development time for creating content as possible. That is considered to be the players' job. While one might criticise this there are some significant advantages to this approach. Briefly speaking development time costs money while playing time grants money. And due to the excellent communication methods of the internet, such as wikis, forums, chats and voice coms, developer made content is consumed at ridiculous speeds nowadays, especially when it comes to the mastery aspect mentioned in the EC video. As an example World of Warcraft, a game almost as old as Eve, relies heavily on developer made content to stimulate players. This leads to the majority of their playerbase rushing back to the game whenever a new expansion is announced and then leaving again two weeks later when they've seen everything new. Not only does this lead to high fluctuations in the ammount of playing people, it's in fact only a feasible strategy because the game bills you for every expansion. Back to the topic: I'm neutral towards dailies. I don't see any drawbacks but neither substantial benefits that could be gained from them, as opposed to e.g. the watchlist removal, which in my opinion removed a big incentive to groom a character's reputation. * The emphasis here lies on well made. Stuff like bind-on-pickup items are just plain lazy. It was less of a "Here's how to do it," and more of a "Please watch, it contains useful things." EC is definitely geared more toward more conventional games, and less toward sandboxes. It's got a lot for EVE to think about, but if everyone made a game the way they said to, we wouldn't have a whole bunch of diversity, and anyone taking most of their advice wouldn't have made anything like EVE. Many of the modern "MMO" games just don't belong as online games. They're just single-player games which require you to be constantly online, which, for the end user, means "stupid strong DRM." Most of the group-finder "multiplayer" community is about "read guide before running dungeon/raid" because they want whatever the raid drops as fast as possible and the "bonus" whatever the daily gives. The fun of actually finding out how it works is lost on them. I think this isn't the first time EVE has been introduced to dailies. I seem to remember a few forum posts about grinding sov in an the system and how boring that was. A signature :o
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:00:23 - [20] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. If you read through the original post, you should be able to see why its no good. I would explain in this post here but i would just be quoting parts of my original post. Essentially ccp is drifting away from the thigs that made eve great and turning it into any other mmo which i presume is for more dank dollar. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:14:16 - [21] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Ugh, please. Times are changing, EVE is changing. You want this game to be around in 10 years? Well, then the game has to adapted to new generations of audiences. This is one of those adaptions and it's hardly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. You get like 3 million SP a YEAR if you do your little thing every day. Big whoop, who cares. just because eve is changing doesn't mean we should accept ****** changes. the daily system isn't bad, but how ccp have suggested implementing it is absolutely terrible.
Pix Severus Empty You 3845	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:21:10 - [22] - Quote Phased Plasma wrote: If you read through the original post, you should be able to see why its no good. I would explain in this post here but i would just be quoting parts of my original post. Essentially ccp is drifting away from the thigs that made eve great and turning it into any other mmo which i presume is for more dank dollar. I already read through your post, I'm aware of what is in it. If you read through my post, I said "Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies.." -ì-ä-à -£-à+¦-äGêâ-Ç
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 652	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:43:16 - [23] - Quote I like the concept and personally have no issue with it. I'll also take full advantage of it if/when it's introduced. It's not a game breaking amount of SP, but when done religiously it will yield a great benefit. Good idea CCP, reward people for hitting Undock. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Albert Madullier Black Omega Security The OSS 49	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:50:57 - [24] - Quote i dont see the problem, its just a little extra to ppl that are logging in and playing instead of playing skill queue offline
The Golden Serpent Tzedakah Aegis Militia 153	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:56:03 - [25] - Quote Trust me Eve is nothing like WoW. Nothing like it. Having a daily activity doing the SAME things you do already is a great way to solve Eve's power creep problems. Toe to toe with superior twitch skills (I can win FPS games and top charts) I cannot win against an older character in this game because of the absurdly high powercreep that has been going on for over five years now in Eve unaddressed. Eve hasn't been surviving for 10 years, in case you havn't noticed they've had to lay people off and cut corners, that isn't good. Yes we all know "join a corp" solves the problem, this has created the big null blocks like Imperium, which CCP hates, so they made Fozziesov, not realizing it is THEIR FAULT imperium is so huge, because they have not been addressing SP powercreep. There is nothing wrong with the Imperium reacting to the gaps in this game that have manifested due to poor past leadership. Then they fix it by making us pay real life money for this (trust me no casual player has that much ISK to spend to fix their game design problem) instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. This was outrageous. This new daily task is a fantastic way to help people who are ALREADY into ratting casually because we are so new to fight the uphill battle against powercreep. Older players can let it slide, because they don't desperately need it. IF they think they do that is just video game addiction, it's not CCP's fault. Oh but it is a perfectly legit way to make people stay subbed. Blizzard is a great company by the way, there is no shame in copying some of their strategy, and I'm sure they enjoy having better competition as well. You can do the dailies or not, there is a choice. Do not put your neurotic OCD problems on us newbies who need this SP assistance. It is your choice to do these or not. It isn't a chore for new people to Eve, we enjoy doing dumb mundane things senior players do not enjoy. They are still novel to us.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:09:21 - [26] - Quote Restate it here: Quote: The introduction of extractors/injectors changes the paradigm significantly of adding SP rewards to various activities. SP acquisition is a production industry now. You're not forced to to play the SP production/harvesting game to benefit from it. Do activities you normally do to earn ISK and purchase SP on the market--use it, resell it, gift it, etc. Passive SP is still available to you. The proposed and existing active sources of SP aren't placed behind inaccessible barriers. Again, skillpoints, don't determine player skill. That point has been beaten to death with the injector discussions. Yes, the 'evolution' of the tribute system proposal to shoot one NPC every 22 hours is significantly underwhelming, but it's a start on interaction drivers nonetheless. Awarding SP to some interaction driver activities isn't going to kill the sandbox. If people want recognition for their decade investment in skill queue online, let me direct your attention to skill injector diseases. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:21:49 - [27] - Quote WoW has daily quests Killing an NPC once a day = a daily quest Therefore EVE = WoW It's a silly argument really. People are fine with their skill points literally accumulating from out of nowhere even while they are logged off, but gaining a few SP by actively playing the game is bad? Mmmkay.
Nitco Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:29:04 - [28] - Quote I don't really like dailies in any shape or form either, it's just an artificial method to keep players active and hooked. Skill injectors are fine as they are, you'd need a lot of isk or money (in which case you can just buy a character instead) to get any significant number of SP. Even if you 'buy your way' to a 60m-all-relevant-skills-level-V-small-gang/solo-PvP dream... you're still gonna die if you don't know how to pilot, don't know your surroundings or the people in your area. Typically you need to be a good player to put those last few skills at V to use. (I guess there's always the cheap dumb tactic that's gonna keep you safe, like sniping FW targets off highsec gates but no one's gonna care about your killboard stats and that's not an issue with injectors but with the game mechanics and ship balance.) Using extractors to relocate SP or picking up an injector off the market is a great way for players to make quick skill adjustments, either to try a new ship or maybe join a fleet op that requires certain skills and instead of waiting 3 days you can get straight into the action. It's also useful to breathe life into SP that's not being used, like those planetary management skills you never used. What I don't like about the injectors is how EVE literally advertises them to new characters, "HEY, Just got into the game? BUY this 600m item OKAY?". It smells an awful lot like a P2W-style advertisement and will deter new people from EVE.
Maldiro Selkurk CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X 546	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:31:28 - [29] - Quote 1. EVE never has been and never will be a sandbox game. I dont remember sandboxes having SOV mechanics to coddle peoples sand castles when they castle creators were at home sleeping. 2. Speaking for myself, one of the most irritating aspects of EVE is the ***** skill queue. The concept of learning is good but waiting a year or more to max all the skills you need fo fly some ships is stupid long. This change will help some and injectors will help even more. I personally more than doubled my SPs since injectors came out and now i do many more different activities than i used to do. Some of these activities would have taken months to a year or more to complete them all but i got them in about 2 weeks. 3. For a change CCP is starting to make good decisions: 1) skins to increase revenue, 2) reducing the onerous weight of the skill point choke hold on a persons ability to enjoy more aspects of EVE. 3) I spent 200 or 300 USD on injectors so more income for CCP leads to more income to produce a better game. 4) Adding burners to spice up sec. missions. 5) trying to break up the mind blowing cluster ** that is nullsec so that it more resembles the dream it was supposed to be. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 26	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:32:40 - [30] - Quote I will bet that most complains comes from older players. This daily SPs help mostly new players to start faster. I'm a 3 month old char and I'm looking at 120+d of of just more or less basic INT/MEM skillqueue. No ships in there and without the reskill this would be 150+d. At the end of that queue I will start the Will/Perc skills that will take a lot longer. Every SP is welcome to shorten that line. Even if people sell these point for plex it will just raise the price for plex as this will not create a greater number of PLEX so you can take higher prices.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:36:46 - [31] - Quote This is a carrot on a stick people. Catching a target out in space is bad? Would you rather they sit in station and smack talk. For a measly 10,000 sp people will be lured out of station and be vulnerable. But change was always the Achilles heel for vets.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:40:26 - [32] - Quote Most of the playerbase has played games with dailies, and know how they always turn out. It doesn't matter much how long or short they are, they always turn into tedium. Not really worth doing = why were they there in the first place? Worth doing = Must. Log. In. All. Alts. And. Do. What. Quest. Says. Every. Day. Because. Talking. Pet. Made. Me. We had (still have?) dailies for quite a while (sov grind), but at least those were sort of multiplayer. A signature :o
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:52:57 - [33] - Quote Trader20 wrote: This is a carrot on a stick people. Catching a target out in space is bad? Would you rather they sit in station and smack talk. For a measly 10,000 sp people will be lured out of station and be vulnerable. But change was always the Achilles heel for vets. Maybe you should actually read the post first. The majority of eve players have at least 2 accounts, with 2 accounts in one month that 'measly 10,000sp' amounts to nearly 2million sp, which can be sold for more than 1 billion isk. For a few minutes work each day. It introduces a new sense of urgency in the form of "if i dont log in an do my dailies then i will be behind!" Eve isn't popular for being easy to new players, in fact its ultra steep learning curve is what motivated quite alot of people to play in the first place. And to all those who say "whats wrong with giving people prizes for undocking every day" well honestly what's the ******* point if they are just gonna dock up and log off/stay idle in station anyway? There is absolutely nothing about dailies that promotes people to be social ingame and play with others and generate content. At the end of the day all it does is boost online figures in the launcher and nothing else. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:53:45 - [34] - Quote CAM WAS RIGHT
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron 1731	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:41:31 - [35] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: I will bet that most complains comes from older players. This daily SPs help mostly new players to start faster. I'm a 3 month old char and I'm looking at 120+d of of just more or less basic INT/MEM skillqueue. No ships in there and without the reskill this would be 150+d. At the end of that queue I will start the Will/Perc skills that will take a lot longer. Every SP is welcome to shorten that line. Even if people sell these point for plex it will just raise the price for plex as this will not create a greater number of PLEX so you can take higher prices. man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:46:24 - [36] - Quote March rabbit wrote: man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! What would you call PI? *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:47:09 - [37] - Quote Whilst I agree that more players need to be encouraged to undock, simply handing them free sp for a few minutes work every day isn't the way ccp should do it. Players should be encouraged to undock and participate in game content with other players, hence the meaning of mmo: Massively MULTIPLAYER online. Not a few minutes of solo content. As I said before, sure this entices some to undock, it does not change anything but the online player count in the launcher. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron 1731	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:12:51 - [38] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: March rabbit wrote: man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! What would you call PI? PI is tool to make ISK and outposts. And yet, to do PI you need ship The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 26	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:31:42 - [39] - Quote March rabbit wrote: man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! Can I have your SPs then? I need these SPs exactly to undock ships or I need them to earn the money to afford them (and their replacement )
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:31:46 - [40] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. It would have been better if CCP just implemented it, preferably without any more warning than a line on the patch notes for Citadel. The target audience of PvErs will not step forward to defend this idea and the PvP noisebots are tearing it apart with their loud drama.
Nalia White Tencus 168	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:58:30 - [41] - Quote I would have loved dailies when i started. I am sure it would help new players tremendously... This could also be a chance to introduce more dangerous space to new players... create dailies like: "Visit Poitot, the only named system in Syndicate!" All ships valid except for shuttle, newbie ships and pods. T1 frigate would be enough and new players could feel the rush of dangerous space without losing to much :)
Oracle of Machina Hedonic Defense Systems Plexodus 38	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:09:38 - [42] - Quote This seems like a fairly poorly-discussed or thought-out feature. 10,000 SP is an amazing boon for a brand-new player, but it might be a bit too much for older players, who are already way ahead of brand-newbro. More likely, it's going to be used as a free injectors every month and a half to either sell or use. If it's by character, that's 3 per account. If I have three accounts, that'd be 9 injectors every other month if I dedicate myself to find the time to shoot at a rat once every 22 hours, and it only goes up from there. I can't imagine that's going to do much for injector prices except deflate them rapidly, meaning proliferation of Ironbank-style perfect characters will be even easier. Why even bother with having skillpoints at that point?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 943	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:55:01 - [43] - Quote Nalia White wrote: I would have loved dailies when i started. I am sure it would help new players tremendously... This could also be a chance to introduce more dangerous space to new players... create dailies like: "Visit Poitot, the only named system in Syndicate!" All ships valid except for shuttle, newbie ships and pods. T1 frigate would be enough and new players could feel the rush of dangerous space without losing to much :) That would work for a while, but will it still be engaging gameplay after a couple of days? You log in all you characters, kill a rat, grab an interceptor, fly to poitot, fly to the eve gate, mine a cycles worth of ore, trade a random item on the market, get SP, log off, do the same thing tomorrow. And you will want to do this on every character, as doing this every day can get you 2 skill extractors worth of SP after 7 weeks on top of what your main character is training, assuming the reward stays at "kill rat, get 10k SP per character and day". And since the reward is SP, you don't have many alternatives. So especially new players who need them will feel like they are running in a treadmill after a week. The beauty about "leveling" in Eve used to be, that it absolutly didn't matter if you didn't have time to play for a week. In WoW, let's say, if you don't play for a week, you'll be a week behind your friends. If you don't play a week in Eve, you're still on the same level as if you were had you played 12 hours every day. This system doesn't just set up a reward for logging in every day, it kind of sets up a penalty for not logging in. Because, really - you don't do much beyond logging in. The proposed mechanic doesn't require any knowledge or skill or anything beyond logging in. You log in, you warp into a belt, kill a rat, log out - preferrably in the belt so you'll land next to a rat when you log in tomorrow. Someone linked it above - this is pretty much the Skinnerbox in it's most basic form: Push Button, get food. Here's my take on this: - instead of SP, give out "CCP Corp Loyalty Points" (because, that's kind of what it is - you are loyal to the game and CCP if you log in and do stuff every day) which you can trade in for a bunch of unique skins, silly hats, monocles, what have you. - make the tasks varied and change everyday randomly. One day you'll have to mine a certain ore, ice or gas, next day you'll have to kill a specific type of rat (guristas, sanshas, sleeper, drifter...), or find a complex, run an escalation site, produce a module, research a blueprint, fly to poitot, kill a player, anchor a bubble ... with only one of those tasks being valid each day. Of course you won't know exactly what you'll have to do tomorrow. That way, newbies can still get something worthwhile out of it by selling the stuff on the market, but it won't be such a massive hit if you don't partake. If you do want the loyalty points, you will need to do something at times you may never have done before, but you don't need to grind the same task everyday, and especially with tasks like "visit the eve gate" or "fly to the only named system in syndicate" you will actually create some content without promoting a permabubblecamp in poitot.
Salt Foambreaker Greedy Pirates 23	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:04:59 - [44] - Quote Phased Plasma wrote: Did you not read it or are you just ignorant? An average eve player with two accounts can generate 1.8mil per month, i know you must be slow minded or something but 1.8mil x 12months does not equal 3million. Its more in the realms of 21.6 million per year. So maybe look at the facts before posting little bee. OMG, 21 million, I can ditch my PI alts!
Nalia White Tencus 168	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:29:16 - [45] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Nalia White wrote: I would have loved dailies when i started. I am sure it would help new players tremendously... This could also be a chance to introduce more dangerous space to new players... create dailies like: "Visit Poitot, the only named system in Syndicate!" All ships valid except for shuttle, newbie ships and pods. T1 frigate would be enough and new players could feel the rush of dangerous space without losing to much :) That would work for a while, but will it still be engaging gameplay after a couple of days? You log in all you characters, kill a rat, grab an interceptor, fly to poitot, fly to the eve gate, mine a cycles worth of ore, trade a random item on the market, get SP, log off, do the same thing tomorrow. And you will want to do this on every character, as doing this every day can get you 2 skill extractors worth of SP after 7 weeks on top of what your main character is training, assuming the reward stays at "kill rat, get 10k SP per character and day". And since the reward is SP, you don't have many alternatives. So especially new players who need them will feel like they are running in a treadmill after a week. The beauty about "leveling" in Eve used to be, that it absolutly didn't matter if you didn't have time to play for a week. In WoW, let's say, if you don't play for a week, you'll be a week behind your friends. If you don't play a week in Eve, you're still on the same level as if you were had you played 12 hours every day. This system doesn't just set up a reward for logging in every day, it kind of sets up a penalty for not logging in. Because, really - you don't do much beyond logging in. The proposed mechanic doesn't require any knowledge or skill or anything beyond logging in. You log in, you warp into a belt, kill a rat, log out - preferrably in the belt so you'll land next to a rat when you log in tomorrow. Someone linked it above - this is pretty much the Skinnerbox in it's most basic form: Push Button, get food. your arguments have a lot of merit. The system possibly even has to have a hard cap for example lets say 40million sp. afterwards you can't gain SP rewards. Also the "quests" would have to get progressively harder. Like not only visiting Poitot but opening a market in some npc null region and sell stuff worth 50 million ISK or something like that. Not dailies but "monthlies" if you will.
Baygun EVE University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:12:58 - [46] - Quote Indeed Dailies are bad! That will force everyone to do it and if one has like 10 accounts that's crazy! HOWEVER: I TOTALLY disagree on your statement for SP! More in the thread.
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:48:58 - [47] - Quote I don't quite understand, what about my sp statement don't you agree with? Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Leeluvv Polarized 86	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:30:38 - [48] - Quote If CCP want to encourage more players to login (and not just shoot a NPC rat) they need to think about the best way to encourage this. My small brain realizes that specific rewards, such as ISK or SP, are bad, so the reward needs to be a bonus to something players are already doing. Here are some 'rough' ideas: Reduced market taxes for a specific period of time, possibly limited to an ISK value, so rich players don't get more than poor players. Increased SP generation for a period of time, possible linked to a SP value so vets don't get more than new players. I thought about increased warp speed as a movement bonus, but this will lead to meta gaming, so probably isn't worth considering, as is the issue with anything else related to playing the game, such as scanning, etc.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 339	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:09:44 - [49] - Quote From CCP's skill injector blog - 'we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Where is your integrity CCP? Where is your commitment to a harsh universe CCP?
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:15:25 - [50] - Quote ^^ Added this to the original post. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Radamant Nemess Caldari State Navy 50	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:38:10 - [51] - Quote Phased Plasma wrote: Eve is what YOU make of it. I think that you`ve answered to yourself there. If you dont like dailies, don`t do them. i can fail at any speed you like
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron 1731	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:52:53 - [52] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: March rabbit wrote: man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! Can I have your SPs then? they on market You always welcome to buy! Geronimo McVain wrote: I need these SPs exactly to undock ships or I need them to earn the money to afford them (and their replacement ) it looks like you need to undock every ship in the game Even for incursions you don't need lots of SP. There is community for newish players too. And the most lucrative ISK income is FW for which you don't need any SP (well, you need ship and guns so yeah, something about 1 million SP is still needed i think). Still 120+ days of only support skills training makes no sence The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8319	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:18:00 - [53] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: March rabbit wrote: man, you have chosen the wrong game! Eve Online is about ships and undocking! It's not about collecting SP! What would you call PI? PI is very much a feature that ties with industry very heavily. Its a lot more thought out and implemented with a lot of specific things like extractors, planning, a lot of schematics, planet resources etc. Simulating real economy and production. It boils down to logging in daily or every second day, but it is much more engaging in that it gives you a long term plan and ISK. It is the equivalent of dailies for EVE. Every feature developed by them, that should bring in more activity, should tie in with game more than "pick up ten rat tail and bring them for 10 xp over and over". Such low hanging fruit as proposed means devs are bad and dont have ideas or dont want to implement them because they are hard for them to do. We need CONCORD, reasonable target, longer planning, longer timespan between rewards and more choices. Make it like if CONCORD would observe and praise you for reasonable things you do for them interacting with playerbase, criminals for example. Dont make anything slap onto you a badge "moderately good citizen" every day for boring stuff, because that will only cause frustration. Give AU or special faction items, ships, clothing and modules from CONCORD. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:21:57 - [54] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Pix Severus wrote: Aside from the usual slippery slope fallacies, can anyone give me a valid reason why this will be bad for the game? "Wow does it" and "Players can earn ISK by spending 2 minutes playing the game" are not enough to convince me at this point. Unlike most people on the internet, my opinion can be swayed, so give it a shot. It would have been better if CCP just implemented it, preferably without any more warning than a line on the patch notes for Citadel. The target audience of PvErs will not step forward to defend this idea and the PvP noisebots are tearing it apart with their loud drama. I'm a PVE/Industrial player. I generally avoid pvp. I hate the idea of any kind of dailies in EVE, PVE or otherwise, especially for SP. And to those comparing this SP daily idea to PI, no. PI is not a daily, it can be set to whatever interval you want, and does not result in SP. You have to train for it like any other activity in fact. It's just a means of generating material to use or sell.
Evasive Shadow Assassin Evocationz Adhera YouTube Corporation 2249	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:31:12 - [55] - Quote Oh shut up This is a business, end of story, you can give CCP **** with ur ranting forum posts, but guess what? THEY DON'T CARE Dailys, good, bring it on, i look forward to it 200+ Videos On Eve Online, Missions, Anomalys, PvP, Guides
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:33:23 - [56] - Quote Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote: Oh shut up This is a business, end of story, you can give CCP **** with ur ranting forum posts, but guess what? THEY DON'T CARE Dailys, good, bring it on, i look forward to it they'll care if they lose a bunch of players because of their stupidity, but sadly it'll probably take that happening for anyone in management to get a clue
Phased Plasma 25	Posted - 2016.04.10 00:24:52 - [57] - Quote But hey, why should anyone have a voice if ccp are too busy raking in dank dollar. After all if they want to continue down the path they are going and eventually turn eve into another WoW clone then so be it, at least give us a roadmap that clearly labels the end point as world of warcraft. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 126	Posted - 2016.04.10 00:57:25 - [58] - Quote Log in. Undock from Jita. Jump to nearby star system. Find a belt where only few players are already spawn camping. Wait for NPCs to spawn. Race the others to get the killing blow on a NPC frigate. Jump back to Jita. Dock. Log out. Engaging EVE PVE? Or something I will do for five minutes on a lunch break, until after a few weeks this brainless chore makes me realise that EVE means I'm spending time and money to be bored?
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.10 03:39:47 - [59] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote: Oh shut up This is a business, end of story, you can give CCP ** with ur ranting forum posts, but guess what? THEY DON'T CARE Dailys, good, bring it on, i look forward to it they'll care if they lose a bunch of players because of their stupidity, but sadly it'll probably take that happening for anyone in management to get a clue How many times has this been said? Weren't people going to quit in droves after fozziesov, Injectors dropped, etc. Now we have a war going with log-in figures over 40k. People are getting fights and have more flexibility over their skill queue to get back in the game. 'One night hauler'** The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
TackyTachy1 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2016.04.10 04:22:07 - [60] - Quote I don't analyze this stuff too much, I go here, there, wherever, build, buy the coolest looking ships, go mining, exploring, marvel at the graphics, if I need ISK I figure out how to get it, play regularly even if not every day and can't understand what they're talking about half the time. If I didn't hang around the forums from time to time I'd have no idea what all this is or why it matters. Just seems to me when you start worrying about how much ISK you make in an hour you may as well just put in more overtime at the job. You can't hardly not hear about Plex, I'm not exactly sure how it all works and know even less about Arum, or whatever that other money thing is. And people fuss about the most arcane elements of this game, stuff I'll probably never deal with, or maybe I will, but in good time. But it's still a cool game, check the map for kills in last hour, ok, maybe can do a little low-sec ratting over there but first check it out with that little ship I got that don't pay any attention to warp bubbles. Fly the Recon boat then send in the heavies, shoot some Admirals or something and most importantly; have fun. Designated Rep for 7 characters, two corps and one doofus multi-boxer. Pathetic at PvP but handy with a spreadsheet; lost a bunch of ships but not one spreadsheet. Credo: You don't WIN in this game; you SURVIVE in this game.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8319	Posted - 2016.04.10 06:24:36 - [61] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote: Oh shut up This is a business, end of story, you can give CCP **** with ur ranting forum posts, but guess what? THEY DON'T CARE Dailys, good, bring it on, i look forward to it they'll care if they lose a bunch of players because of their stupidity, but sadly it'll probably take that happening for anyone in management to get a clue How many times has this been said? Weren't people going to quit in droves after fozziesov, Injectors dropped, etc. Now we have a war going with log-in figures over 40k. People are getting fights and have more flexibility over their skill queue to get back in the game. I think that what is driving those people is not actual gameplay, or recent changes, its the revenge on Mittani and emotions people have, strongly tied with his persona and generally goons. These dailies would only pop you an experience/SP bubble from thin air when you are doing the same stuff that have been done 1000 times before. Doesnt make any sense! ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:04:59 - [62] - Quote Given my usual routine (killing many NPCs every day), this idea would mean that Ish would be saving herself to buy 1 skill injector each 30 days. That's one nice premium of some 15 milion iSK/day and I would like getting it... apparnelty unlike all the cough "PvErs" cough pretending that they would hate being rewarded for their(?) alleged playstyle. I can figure how did this SP handout became a idea since CCP wants to reward people for being active, and there's only so many rewards they can give. ISK would not cut it, since PvErs already are earning ISK. Plus, would become another faucet in the game. Modules also woudn't cut it, either they would compete with players or would be useless junk. And there's already a module faucet via loot. LP could be an alternative, but then not all LP are equal as they are bound to NPC corporations. Should players be free to pick the corporation...? AUR are out of question since CCP sells AUR, so giving them for free is a no-no. This leaves CCP with skill points, which have the advantage that the "giving free SP to player" part has been coded into EVE for years. Also they escalate well: 10,000 SP mean more to a new player than to a veteran player, skill wise, but also mean more to a veteran player than to a new player in terms of saving skill injection costs. So, if rewarding players for being active ingame is a given, handing SP once a day is a good suggestion. We could discuss whether 10,000 SP is too little or too much, but supposedly CCP knows who exactly will be getting these rewards and what do they mean to those players.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8319	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:20:00 - [63] - Quote But from where is this SP coming? SP Fairies? Do we need other fairies in space, other than me? SP is tied to your personal brain attributes. It can come in some injectors and boosters. But this proposed system is like fairies in space! I am the only fairy you need in space! ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:29:19 - [64] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: But from where is this SP coming? SP Fairies? Do we need other fairies in space, other than me? SP is tied to your personal brain attributes. It can come in some injectors and boosters. But this proposed system is like fairies in space! I am the only fairy you need in space! You mean lore-wise? No idea. CCP hasn't explained how and when SP became something that could be extracted and transfered among capsuleers. Actually it makes very little sense but maybe one day CCP will come with a lore explanation... failing that, the go word it's "nanites". If you mean economically, this injection (faucet) likely is balanced by the destruction of SP during transfer process (sink).
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:31:11 - [65] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: But from where is this SP coming? SP Fairies? Yeah it's weird. Every time I log on I've got more SP than when I logged off
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 943	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:34:38 - [66] - Quote With how it's proposed, they aren't rewarding players for being active. They are rewarding them for logging each character in for a minute. If this goes live in this form, I'll just make sure that each one of my accounts has all 3 character slots used and log them out in a belt. That way, I just need to log in, target, hit F1, log out. 30k SP per account and day for doing nothing beyond logging in for a minute. After a couple of weeks, I can just extract and sell. What a great deal of activity and content, right?
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8319	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:37:38 - [67] - Quote Tomika wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: But from where is this SP coming? SP Fairies? Yeah it's weird. Every time I log on I've got more SP than when I logged off Injecting skills is like injecting software, and amount of skillpoints is tied to hardware, your brain. To override the speed, you have to use not fairies, but something like boosters. We really need something what would make players interact with each other or stay longer active, and better to do that while doing something fun. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:39:23 - [68] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: With how it's proposed, they aren't rewarding players for being active. They are rewarding them for logging each character in for a minute. If this goes live in this form, I'll just make sure that each one of my accounts has all 3 character slots used and log them out in a belt. That way, I just need to log in, target, hit F1, log out. 30k SP per account and day for doing nothing beyond logging in for a minute. After a couple of weeks, I can just extract and sell. What a great deal of activity and content, right? So you mean that people who can't spend 30 minutes or one hour ingame should not bother to log in? What do you have against busy people?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 944	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:50:40 - [69] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So you mean that people who can't spend 30 minutes or one hour ingame should not bother to log in? What do you have against busy people? No, I think people shouldn't be made to log in to do the same mindless stuff every ***** day. Especially if they don't have the time. People who don't have much time and still want to do mindless work for whatever ***** reason can do several things already in Eve. They can just login to update their market orders or move their PI extractor heads. And they don't even need to do that every day if they don't have time to play. What purpose does killing the rat serve in this anyway? Is this just a sad alibi for content? Just killing one random rat is not exacly engaging gameplay after all. Why not cut the hypocrisy and give out the reward for just logging in for a minute? Not that I'd be ok with that either, but that way at least people can do what they like in the game, and still get the reward. The idea is just lazy and uninspired. If they want to implement a daily reward system, they could at least put some effort into it and make it at least somewhat entertaining and interesting.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:56:35 - [70] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So you mean that people who can't spend 30 minutes or one hour ingame should not bother to log in? What do you have against busy people? No, I think people shouldn't be made to log in to do the same mindless stuff every ***** day. Especially if they don't have the time. People who don't have much time and still want to do mindless work for whatever ***** reason can do several things already in Eve. They can just login to update their market orders or move their PI extractor heads. And they don't even need to do that every day if they don't have time to play. What purpose does killing the rat serve in this anyway? Is this just a sad alibi for content? Just killing one random rat is not exacly engaging gameplay after all. Why not cut the hypocrisy and give out the reward for just logging in for a minute? Not that I'd be ok with that either, but that way at least people can do what they like in the game, and still get the reward. The idea is just lazy and uninspired. If they want to implement a daily reward system, they could at least put some effort into it and make it at least somewhat entertaining and interesting. This boils down to "people shouldn't". Loggin in and blasting a NPC for 10,000 SP is more than not loggin in because your market orders are OK, PI won't end until three days later and you just got 20 minutes to do something.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 944	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:07:51 - [71] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: This boils down to "people shouldn't". No, it boils down to "people shouldn't be made to". It's all about choice - with this system you don't really have one. It's by far the highest reward you can get for a minute of gametime, second to maybe trading. But then again, trading will not be that effective right from the start - you have to build that up. So, If I had just a couple of minutes, and had the choice between updating my PI, updating my measly 500k profit market orders or killing a rat just to grab the daily reward, I'd be stupid not to go for the latter, as it rewards a whopping 10k SP. As I said earlier - change the rewards to LP of some sort, bring them in line with other activities and make the possible daily tasks more varied, and I'll be fine with this. If you don't have much time to play and still want to do something that gets you something, you can do it. If you however don't feel like grinding senseless tasks, you can just ignore it, get your money elsewhere and buy the LP store items off the market if you want them.
Dani Gallar University of Caille Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:19:16 - [72] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: This boils down to "people shouldn't". No, it boils down to "people shouldn't be made to". It's all about choice - with this system you don't really have one. It's by far the highest reward you can get for a minute of gametime, second to maybe trading. But then again, trading will not be that effective right from the start - you have to build that up. So, If I had just a couple of minutes, and had the choice between updating my PI, updating my measly 500k profit market orders or killing a rat just to grab the daily reward, I'd be stupid not to go for the latter, as it rewards a whopping 10k SP per character. As I said earlier - change the rewards to LP of some sort, bring them in line with other activities and make the possible daily tasks more varied, and I'll be fine with this. If you don't have much time to play and still want to do something that gets you something, you can do it. If you however don't feel like grinding senseless tasks, you can just ignore it, get your money elsewhere and buy the LP store items off the market if you want them. Couldn-¦t agree more ... both that the "LP" idea is better and that the 'free training for nothing' is bad.
Kitsune Rei Tastes Like Purple 52	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:06:38 - [73] - Quote Question. Does the "daily opportunity" exist only in Low-Sec?
Phased Plasma 28	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:16:54 - [74] - Quote It won't matter where you are. I said low sec in the post because that is the easiest place to find rats due to the high spawn rates in belts. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Kitty Bear Harbingers of Chaos Inc Violence of Action. 1534	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:54:01 - [75] - Quote Don't like it ... Ignore the system. Just because it's there doesn't mean you HAVE to do it.
Phased Plasma 28	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:09:27 - [76] - Quote It's not about ignoring the system, it's the fact that in it's current proposed state it is bad for the games health. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 26	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:25:32 - [77] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: With how it's proposed, they aren't rewarding players for being active. They are rewarding them for logging each character in for a minute. If this goes live in this form, I'll just make sure that each one of my accounts has all 3 character slots used and log them out in a belt. That way, I just need to log in, target, hit F1, log out. 30k SP per account and day for doing nothing beyond logging in for a minute. After a couple of weeks, I can just extract and sell. What a great deal of activity and content, right? So why not? Do it. If it get's a tedious routine to farm SP you will stop it. IMHO it's just a way to help fresh players. After a year it's nice but not really important to climb mount Skillpoint fast. After a year you have a solid stock of different things you can do. So this helps new players to get there faster by doing some grinding. BTW: you have to have all your chars up to 5M SP before you can extract so you are looking for a long way to raise some new alt just by logging in. You could do the same by running a PI on every slot you have but are you doing it or are you falling behind because you are not doing it? Don't think so. It's a nice plus but I doubt that you will do it for long just to farm the SP. At a certaint point you just can't get better you just get some new options for different playstyles.
K'racker Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:39:35 - [78] - Quote a small perk that will benefit newer players and those that can't afford dual training . it's a choice , not mandatory . you're not 'losing out' if you decide it's not worth your time . skill points are a commodity now , like any other . you can do this 'daily' (the bad name the propaganda experts have bestowed it) or buy a skill injector . the 'sp from thin air' argument is crap ; if you need lore to make you feel better , make something up . the 'one minute' to find a high sec rat is crap also ; undock your jita alt and try to find a rat with a couple thousand others doing the same thing . the only down side i see is people begging to be fleeted so they can kill their daily rat . which will become a new mini-profession running level ones a jump or two out of market hubs . and there will be much more interaction , as those hated spammers and scammers die en masse on the undock . of course , the space-rich will object to having to dirty their hands . shooting red crosses . the horror ..
Hal Morsh Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem 524	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:22:59 - [79] - Quote I like dailies in games and mmo's and whatnot, we do have yearly versions of this for some missions, but for some unknown reason I get this unpleasant gut feeling about it. Omar Alharazaad > Pretty much any time you blow something up in space it's bound to annoy someone or something.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 953	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:27:56 - [80] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: IMHO it's just a way to help fresh players. After a year it's nice but not really important to climb mount Skillpoint fast. After a year you have a solid stock of different things you can do. So this helps new players to get there faster by doing some grinding. Isn't it always? It they really wanted to give the newbies a headstart, they'd just give them 5 or 10M SP and leave the rest of the game alone. That's just the usual strawman fallacy. On your point of PI - PI is nowhere near on par with this. Name one activity in Eve that can reliably get you three injectors worth of SP on top of what you are training by playing the game one minute per day and character for seven weeks on a single account right from day one.
Shuckstar Taking Inc 354	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:05:28 - [81] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: I will bet that most complains comes from older players. This daily SPs help mostly new players to start faster. I'm a 3 month old char and I'm looking at 120+d of of just more or less basic INT/MEM skillqueue. No ships in there and without the reskill this would be 150+d. At the end of that queue I will start the Will/Perc skills that will take a lot longer. Every SP is welcome to shorten that line. Even if people sell these point for plex it will just raise the price for plex as this will not create a greater number of PLEX so you can take higher prices. Been playing 11yrs and I don't peronally give a damn about giving sp for killing a npc daily. CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 144	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:08:11 - [82] - Quote K'racker wrote: a small perk that will benefit newer players and those that can't afford dual training . it's a choice , not mandatory . you're not 'losing out' if you decide it's not worth your time . skill points are a commodity now , like any other . you can do this 'daily' (the bad name the propaganda experts have bestowed it) or buy a skill injector . the 'sp from thin air' argument is crap ; if you need lore to make you feel better , make something up . the 'one minute' to find a high sec rat is crap also ; undock your jita alt and try to find a rat with a couple thousand others doing the same thing . the only down side i see is people begging to be fleeted so they can kill their daily rat . which will become a new mini-profession running level ones a jump or two out of market hubs . and there will be much more interaction , as those hated spammers and scammers die en masse on the undock . of course , the space-rich will object to having to dirty their hands . shooting red crosses . the horror .. If by the propaganda experts you mean CCP then you're right, they're the ones calling it "Daily Opportunities," have you even read the Dev post or are you spouting **** like your 'sp from thin air' argument. Because your argument proves you know knowing of faucets.
Leeluvv Polarized 86	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:12:16 - [83] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: ...IMHO it's just a way to help fresh players. That is a by-product, not the intent. The primary purpose of this change is to increase the number of active online players that CCP can report.
Phased Plasma 29	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:16:03 - [84] - Quote ^^ precisely. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 956	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:19:16 - [85] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: ...IMHO it's just a way to help fresh players. That is a by-product, not the intent. The primary purpose of this change is to increase the number of active online players that CCP can report. And with this, it's barely going to work. If every account in Eve had 3 chars, and they would all log in for a minute every day (which won't happen) this will raise the daily average by a bit more than 1000, which is less than stellar. Sure, some players might stay logged after that, but most players won't even bother after a while, because it will become tedious rather quickly. If they want players to play the game, they should gasp add content to the game. Ludicrous idea, I know.
Phased Plasma 29	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:37:54 - [86] - Quote New content that gives players something to do? Blasphemy! Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Leeluvv Polarized 86	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:35:36 - [87] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Leeluvv wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: ...IMHO it's just a way to help fresh players. That is a by-product, not the intent. The primary purpose of this change is to increase the number of active online players that CCP can report. And with this, it's barely going to work. If every account in Eve had 3 chars, and they would all log in for a minute every day (which won't happen) this will raise the daily average by a bit more than 1000, which is less than stellar. Sure, some players might stay logged after that, but most players won't even bother after a while, because it will become tedious rather quickly. If they want players to play the game, they should gasp add content to the game. Ludicrous idea, I know. They don't care how long you stay in game, as you add to the total number of unique accounts that login that day. It's a marketing con that Free 2 Play games use to make them look popular, so other players then try the game. The problem with Eve is that CCP are telling people how to play for the reward, rather than giving it for playing the game.
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 26	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:11:58 - [88] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: And with this, it's barely going to work. If every account in Eve had 3 chars, and they would all log in for a minute every day (which won't happen) this will raise the daily average by a bit more than 1000, which is less than stellar. Sure, some players might stay logged after that, but most players won't even bother after a while, because it will become tedious rather quickly. If they want players to play the game, they should gasp add content to the game. Ludicrous idea, I know. Your playing time is limited so you are likely to just reduce the time you play with your main= no raise at all. IMHO CCP is doing it right. It helps new players and everyone gets a bon which he can use as he likes. The discussion shows that one side has fears to fall behind while the other side mourns the extra income. You can't have both so either you climb mount Skillpoint faster OR you are making extra money. YOU choose which way you will use the SP. BTW: What do you think are the new citadels? Content or space decoration?
Semarus Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:20:28 - [89] - Quote OP's math is off. The extractor takes 500k, so the 1.8m sp for 2 accounts/3 characters per doesnt equal to x skill injectors right away. Plus theres the 5.5m skill minimum, essentially making the OP's initial argument for it being an easy way to make money only a problem for players that are already well established, and likely, just as well funded. IMO, one of the biggest hurdles in attracting players is to have them wait for 6 months to fly the ship they (think) they want to fly, and then leave it up to them to entertain themselves in the meantime. Yes, that is the core of the game we have all come to love--EVE is driven by the experiences the players create--but it's a double-edged sword that I'm sure CCP has always wanted to find a way around, while maintaining the spirit of the game. The prospective subscriber is a lot different now than 5-8 years ago, and inevitably things must change to adapt to the times.
advii Kossu and Keppana Inc. 37	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:49:11 - [90] - Quote Weekly? Could be cool. Daily? Hell to the no.
Commander Spurty Moosearmy I N F A M O U S 1621	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:55:32 - [91] - Quote Better give me something for logging in when the people I want to shoot are being told to not log in and let their subscriptions lapse. Remain logged out, miss out. This is nothing new. CCP's been doing it with releases for ages now. Sample (something like this did happen) "All active accounts during this update will receive 10 Gecko drones" - you really want every account ever made, including all of those spammer accounts to be rewarded like this? Apparently so. Rewarding those that interact in the World is not only fair, it's "about time". There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Spurty Moosearmy I N F A M O U S 1621	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:55:32 - [92] - Quote Better give me something for logging in when the people I want to shoot are being told to not log in and let their subscriptions lapse. Remain logged out, miss out. This is nothing new. CCP's been doing it with releases for ages now. Sample (something like this did happen) "All active accounts during this update will receive 10 Gecko drones" - you really want every account ever made, including all of those spammer accounts to be rewarded like this? Apparently so. Rewarding those that interact in the World is not only fair, it's "about time". There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Meryl SinGarda Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 919	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:03:06 - [93] - Quote Can we change the title of this thread to "Change? Grrrr CCP, I'm scared" GÖÑ Intergalactic Serial Killer GÖÑ
Meryl SinGarda Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 919	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:12:03 - [94] - Quote Like seriously, the only reason this game doesn't have any major revolutionary changes to gameplay is because every single time CCP tries to do something majorly different, people cry and whine about it and then we have the same stagnating content for the next 5 years GÖÑ Intergalactic Serial Killer GÖÑ
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 82	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:14:40 - [95] - Quote Meryl SinGarda wrote: Can we change the title of this thread to "Change? Grrrr CCP, I'm scared" To recall, before CCP introduced an extension to the 24hr skill queue, Eve arguably had dailies--punishing ones at that, if you didn't update the queue. Shoot an NPC, get SP, is something anyone can quick pick up and do. Sure, you may 'fall behind' on daily 10,000 SP, but it's hardly the same as time lost not updating a skill queue. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 964	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:43:55 - [96] - Quote Meryl SinGarda wrote: Like seriously, the only reason this game doesn't have any major revolutionary changes to gameplay is because every single time CCP tries to do something majorly different, people cry and whine about it and then we have the same stagnating content for the next 5 years Right. An uninspired, repetitive and bland "log in -> get candy" mechanic is certainly a revolutionary development in gameplay and worthy of everyones support. It would be a wholly different matter if there were "major revolutionary changes to gameplay" with the focus on the word "gameplay". Logging in to kill a single rat every day is as much gameplay as pushing the same button over and over and over. So, not at all, really.
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 126	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:55:28 - [97] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Ugh, please. Times are changing, EVE is changing. You want this game to be around in 10 years? Well, then the game has to adapted to new generations of audiences. This is one of those adaptions and it's hardly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. You get like 3 million SP a YEAR if you do your little thing every day. Big whoop, who cares. There's a point where adapting to a new market means gutting every core concept the game has advertised. Take some of the newer Legend of Zelda games, for instance. In the olden days, they were decently cryptic and didn't hold your hand. You had to know where to burn a bush, where to get a ladder, etc. You had to figure it out. Newer LoZ games hold your hand on goddamn everything. It's no longer a matter of how well you can figure it out, it's a matter of how well you can follow directions. Then you have a franchise like Dark Souls that says "screw the newer audience and their hand-holding" and beats you in the face until you start to like it. Eve should remain unique, not pandering to the lowest common denominator of "do dailies, grind currency, obtain phat lootz". I'm against dailies in any game.
Phased Plasma 32	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:57:07 - [98] - Quote Personally I don't even like the way ccp are catering towards new bros. When I started it was hard, I didn't search up how to guides or anything I just figured it out myself. Done the tutorials which show you enough of what you need to know in eve: How to travel, how to do basic combat, and how to accept missions. It was hard for me but that's what kept me to eve, there is nothing like a game that is actually hard and challenges you. There is no fun in the game teaching you every single thing you need/want to know. The real fun gameplay is figuring stuff out, learning from mistakes etc. I liked that a low amount of players actually stuck to eve because 9/10 times the people that stuck to it where the good people, and the 14 day trial almost served as a vetting processes, scaring away all the bitches and pansies and gave us good, solid players that would stay long term. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 964	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:04:21 - [99] - Quote This isn't even catering to newbies. This is catering to kids with an attention span of a goldfish.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 331	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:17:55 - [100] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: With how it's proposed, they aren't rewarding players for being active. They are rewarding them for logging each character in for a minute. If this goes live in this form, I'll just make sure that each one of my accounts has all 3 character slots used and log them out in a belt. That way, I just need to log in, target, hit F1, log out. 30k SP per account and day for doing nothing beyond logging in for a minute. After a couple of weeks, I can just extract and sell. What a great deal of activity and content, right? So you think that every belt will have a rat waiting for you? Really? I'm loving the optimism.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 964	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:20:12 - [101] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: So you think that every belt will have a rat waiting for you? Really? I'm loving the optimism. In Nullsec, the spawnrate is pretty decent. There may be a miss here and there, but so what? Warp to the next Belt, kill a rat there, log out. Adds 30 seconds to the :effort:.
Maia Kundoshi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:49:39 - [102] - Quote I only read the first page, so sry if I'm echoing someone else. And sry to 'trample' a bit on the majority line of thinking (or it seems like it) But I'm a 'new player' , I played 2 months a few years ago and am back (unrelated), and have 0 desire to do those dailies. I have a 500k sp injector sitting in my stuff I can claim, unused. Why? I wouldnt even know where or what to use it own. I'm learning the game. And real NEW player, would be in the same boat. There's very LITTLE incentive for us to try and max out SP gains when it isn't even clear what the whole deal about sp is in the first place. We're way too preoccupied by missions, combat sites, exploration, low-sec/high-sec/null-sec, inventions, the market, mining, salvaging, ghost sites (i can keep going for a while....) Most of the people that are going to jump unto those sps are non-newb players. Those either at the top that are panicking they won't stay on top much longer, or those mid-pack and above that want to reach the top. So stop saying its too lure in new players and that new players are bad etc... new players are the best thing that can happen to EVE. CCP is milking YOU. They know their player base. They know you like the math, that you counted and added the numbers up, and that you now feel obligated to go and do the dailys and buy the injectors. So really,..... the dailies arent bad, just dont do them. Stop feeling obliged to do them, you arent. And if someone does them... so what? Don't you want more players with stupid expensive ships to fight, more great wars, more great battles. I'm thinking this is especially alluring to risky players that lose skills getting blown up in T3s (heard you lose skills when you die in those, not sure) - this makes things faster for them to get their skills back. Why all the hate on this? What does it REALLY change?? Noobs are NOT benifiting from this, believe me. New alts from vet players are.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:57:20 - [103] - Quote ^^^ See? This person is the type of new player we need. Not the kind that wants everything right now right away so they can be done with the game as quickly as possible. You got one thing wrong, though - the whales with crazy expensive ships and no knowledge whatsoever aren't the ones taking part in the great wars and great battles you speak of. Most of the time, they don't take part in the game at all, until they get ganked, start a threadnought in the forums and ragequit. That's because they play the game for the "pixelrewards", not for having fun playing the game.
Dani Gallar University of Caille Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:00:52 - [104] - Quote Maia Kundoshi wrote: I only read the first page, so sry if I'm echoing someone else. And sry to 'trample' a bit on the majority line of thinking (or it seems like it) But I'm a 'new player' , I played 2 months a few years ago and am back (unrelated), and have 0 desire to do those dailies. I have a 500k sp injector sitting in my stuff I can claim, unused. Why? I wouldnt even know where or what to use it own. I'm learning the game. And real NEW player, would be in the same boat. There's very LITTLE incentive for us to try and max out SP gains when it isn't even clear what the whole deal about sp is in the first place. We're way too preoccupied by missions, combat sites, exploration, low-sec/high-sec/null-sec, inventions, the market, mining, salvaging, ghost sites (i can keep going for a while....) Most of the people that are going to jump unto those sps are non-newb players. Those either at the top that are panicking they won't stay on top much longer, or those mid-pack and above that want to reach the top. So stop saying its too lure in new players and that new players are bad etc... new players are the best thing that can happen to EVE. CCP is milking YOU. They know their player base. They know you like the math, that you counted and added the numbers up, and that you now feel obligated to go and do the dailys and buy the injectors. So really,..... the dailies arent bad, just dont do them. Stop feeling obliged to do them, you arent. And if someone does them... so what? Don't you want more players with stupid expensive ships to fight, more great wars, more great battles. I'm thinking this is especially alluring to risky players that lose skills getting blown up in T3s (heard you lose skills when you die in those, not sure) - this makes things faster for them to get their skills back. Why all the hate on this? What does it REALLY change?? Noobs are NOT benifiting from this, believe me. New alts from vet players are. This +1 ... there's literally nothing I have to add to this post.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:04:05 - [105] - Quote And that all being said - the dailies won't change much, if anything at all. But why would I be rooting for a pointless, lazy and uninspired addition to the game, that will give us nothing? After all, I really like this game, and care about it somewhat.
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 128	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:11:24 - [106] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: And that all being said - the dailies won't change much, if anything at all. But why would I be rooting for a pointless, lazy and uninspired addition to the game, that will give us nothing? After all, I really like this game, and care about it somewhat. I'm getting the idea that you find every post you make to be an epiphany or a revelation to someone. You probably stare at yourself in the mirror, don't you?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:13:06 - [107] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: I'm getting the idea that you find every post you make to be an epiphany or a revelation to someone. You probably stare at yourself in the mirror, don't you? I do not own a mirror, but people keep telling me I am gorgeous. What's your point?
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 128	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:15:07 - [108] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Kamahl Daikun wrote: I'm getting the idea that you find every post you make to be an epiphany or a revelation to someone. You probably stare at yourself in the mirror, don't you? I do not own a mirror, but people keep telling me I am gorgeous. What's your point? I was just curious if you'd admit to being full of yourself. This is usually where I'd make a clever jab but I want to see where this is going first.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:16:39 - [109] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: I was just curious if you'd admit to being full of yourself. This is usually where I'd make a clever jab but I want to see where this is going first. I am, and rightfully so. Does that offend you?
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 132	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:17:39 - [110] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Kamahl Daikun wrote: I was just curious if you'd admit to being full of yourself. This is usually where I'd make a clever jab but I want to see where this is going first. I am, and rightfully so. Does that offend you? I don't see why it would offend me. You seem to be the only person with that much faith in yourself. Rock on, spaceman.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:20:07 - [111] - Quote And here I was hoping it would. But thanks anyway.
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 132	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:22:23 - [112] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: And here I was hoping it would. But thanks anyway. You're cute. I'd lock you in my closet and beat you randomly throughout the day. Doesn't that sound nice?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 966	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:23:29 - [113] - Quote You are welcome to try. On a different matter - don't you think we are derailing the thread a bit, darling?
Yarosara Ruil Haighare Pirates 199	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:28:55 - [114] - Quote Maia Kundoshi wrote: So really,..... the dailies arent bad, just dont do them. Stop feeling obliged to do them, you arent. And if someone does them... so what? Don't you want more players with stupid expensive ships to fight, more great wars, more great battles. I'm thinking this is especially alluring to risky players that lose skills getting blown up in T3s (heard you lose skills when you die in those, not sure) - this makes things faster for them to get their skills back. Why all the hate on this? What does it REALLY change?? Noobs are NOT benifiting from this, believe me. New alts from vet players are. You should have seen the ruckus they did when they announced the Skill Injectors. Many people deleted their characters out of disgust, others said it would kill EVE. Bunch of drama llamas! And while you as a new player don't fully appreciate the potential and usefulness of Skill Points, down the line in the mid-game of your career you will be scrounging for them and looking back in regret at some of your earlier career choices.
Maia Kundoshi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 6	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:30:08 - [115] - Quote ... lol , there's no way to delete a post?
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 331	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:29:35 - [116] - Quote Maia Kundoshi wrote: ... lol , there's no way to delete a post? (originally quickly stated awkwardness at conversation above Yarosara's post ^_^ ) I would have loved to make the post useful but I don't feel like I've played enough to warrant saying more than I already have :P It would risk me sounding like some self-entitled noob :P I happen to think you're just a bitter self entitled vet hiding behind a noob account..but what do I know?
Wexiz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:55:03 - [117] - Quote Dailies do get boring quick in other games, if it's just 1 daily for 10k sp then it's not so bad. I do wonder however if that would just be the start of dailies with more coming at a later date.
Anton Karnak Hedion University Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2016.04.12 00:35:34 - [118] - Quote Pavlov's Dogs are drooling like mad. "But I don't want to do dailies." And yet some unknown force causes them to drool uncontrollably. Exercise free will or DROOL DOGS DROOL !!!!!!
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 967	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:06:54 - [119] - Quote Maia Kundoshi wrote: originally quickly stated awkwardness at conversation above Yarosara's post ^_^ I am awfully sorry, he can be like that. Some days I don't know why I married him.
IbanezLaney The Church of Awesome 1545	Posted - 2016.04.12 03:09:46 - [120] - Quote I don't see a problem with it. Giving people a reason to log in can't be bad. It is even a well balanced idea as It will be more helpful to new players than older players and is accessible to everyone. 10k SP to a beginner who just needs to fit a module so they can do a mission or mine a rock a bit faster is good for the beginner and doesn't hurt anyone. Older players will get the odd 45 day skill trained up few days faster - Not really a big deal. https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy 134	Posted - 2016.04.12 13:58:21 - [121] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: I am awfully sorry, he can be like that. Some days I don't know why I married him. Neuntausend wrote: he can be like that Neuntausend wrote: he This is why we never have sex.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 355	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:17:33 - [122] - Quote Yarosara Ruil wrote: You should have seen the ruckus they did when they announced the Skill Injectors. Many people deleted their characters out of disgust, others said it would kill EVE. Bunch of drama llamas!. Skill injectors are fine imo as they come from currently trained skill points and they can be blown up which is very amusing just like when plex is. Dailies however are NOT ok. In case you havn't seen it this a quote from a CCP department - 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.'. That's found here - CCP Skill Injectors Blog
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 153	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:28:40 - [123] - Quote CCP doesn't have a good track record, at least recently, of fully divulging why they are doing what they are doing. If I have to read the tea leaves here, I think they are staring at a massive log of same account 'alts' that aren't training or being used for much else beyond scouts. I know I have one. That's a lot of dead database load. If you give some kind of small, easy SP ability for those alts to at least slowly train, the dead load starts dropping and even those same account alts can start doing some training. It might be pathetic but it's better than ZERO. As to the impact on injectors, I think this is really marginal amounts of SP boost. Games like SWTOR have entire weekends where they double your whole XP load as an 'event'. I wouldn't take SP as such a sacred cow. Clearly CCP is looking to find ways to advance characters faster, be they mains or alts. Calling it a 'daily' is a misnomer also. It's not a mission reward, it's just taking down a system NPC once a day. It's more like a drive by shooting. Overall, it's not a hideous way to trickle out some SP for someone that is willing to take 5 mins out of their day to log in and pop an NPC ship. They could do it differently if they chose, maybe a diminishing returns of SP training for secondary and tertiary characters on the same account. Say, 1/10th and 1/20th of the mains SP per day. Those characters could then at least do level 1 & 2 training. Just various ways to accomplish the same thing. None of this is a game killer. It certainly is a way to rile up the vets though... worked very well... Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:52:51 - [124] - Quote Anton Karnak wrote: Pavlov's Dogs are drooling like mad. "But I don't want to do dailies." And yet some unknown force causes them to drool uncontrollably. Exercise free will or DROOL DOGS DROOL !!!!!! The amount of people in this game who will do stuff they dislike if not hate is staggering.
Wexiz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:15:00 - [125] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Anton Karnak wrote: Pavlov's Dogs are drooling like mad. "But I don't want to do dailies." And yet some unknown force causes them to drool uncontrollably. Exercise free will or DROOL DOGS DROOL !!!!!! The amount of people in this game who will do stuff they dislike if not hate is staggering. I don't think many will lose any sleep if they don't do a daily for 10k sp. I'd say the real concern is what happens next. In other games they have special rewards for doing dailies, like mounts, pets and equipment. These dailies usually also include an amount of gold and can be rep. based, the more rep. you get the better the special rewards you can access. It's these types of dailies that drive people that don't like dailies to do them.
Layla Ashley Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:06:39 - [126] - Quote Phased Plasma wrote: This free sp is per character and not per account. This means if you spend another 2 hours of your time, you can get that extra 5 days of sp on 2 other characters on the same account. Thats half a month of sp for 3 hours every month. 900,000 sp total. CCP Rise wrote: (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first) you cannot do it with all 3 chars on 1 account if i understand it right
Sequester Risalo Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd. 191	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:21:10 - [127] - Quote I can understand the people claiming that this is going against the DNA of EVE being a non-grind game. personally I think it is too much SP. With my current setup it would be in the range of 5 hours worth of SP for 1 Minute of effort every day. If this would be extended to reward any menial task in EVE, it would mean a 10%-50% bonus for logging in. That seems imbalanced. On the other hand there should be noone negatively effected. Those who are happy with their SP acculuation rate should still be happy as this doesn't change. It's the same as people not interested in buying SP aren't affected by skill injectors. Also this might even reduce the price of skill injectors as players investing in SP farms are harvesting a lot more each month.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 971	Posted - 2016.04.13 13:17:13 - [128] - Quote Layla Ashley wrote: CCP Rise wrote: (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first) you cannot do it with all 3 chars on 1 account if i understand it right Yes, they seem to have changed their mind on that one. That's something, at least.
Phased Plasma Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:21:42 - [129] - Quote Layla Ashley wrote: Phased Plasma wrote: This free sp is per character and not per account. This means if you spend another 2 hours of your time, you can get that extra 5 days of sp on 2 other characters on the same account. Thats half a month of sp for 3 hours every month. 900,000 sp total. CCP Rise wrote: (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first) you cannot do it with all 3 chars on 1 account if i understand it right At the time of this posting you was able to do it on all 3 toons. They seem to have changed that. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 971	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:53:25 - [130] - Quote Also, good job CCP on quietly editing that part in the post. Top of the line communication right there.
Bianca Niam Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:38:41 - [131] - Quote I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how?
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 363	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:46:00 - [132] - Quote Isk faucets, now SP faucets. Before it was let people make their own goals and now CCP are blindly thrusting goals at us. Its their way of unnaturally intervening in the sandbox of eve, in the brazen attempt to drive interaction when it is the players themselves who are supposed to be the ones to do it. All I can see is that instead of skill training offline people will now people will kill an npc in high sec [if they can] and then log-off. Eve loses some of its sandbox and people will go looking for one that doesn't punish you for being offline with an arbitrary time limit.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 974	Posted - 2016.04.14 03:46:13 - [133] - Quote Bianca Niam wrote: I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how? Same as the people "catching up", the people they are catching up to will be able to get these SP. So, what's your point again?
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron 1743	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:13:52 - [134] - Quote Bianca Niam wrote: I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how? 1. 'Catching up' is a lie. You don't need lots of skills to play this game and 'have a chance'. 2. Like with other tools for 'catching up' like implants or skill injectors other players have the same tools. And if you need to 'catch up' then you most possible do not have much ISK and thus have a problem 'catching up' more established and rich players. 3. Thanks to 'catching up' Eve constantly loses something unique. First it was races (each in game race had different attributes and starting set of skills), then skill queue (needed planning to not get empty when you cannot log in), then came learning skills (do not even undock until you've got all of them to V, anyone?), .... And still new players need to 'catch up'. I guess only complete removal of skill tree and ISK from the game will get us to the point when no more 'catching up' threads will appear? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Bianca Niam Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:19:32 - [135] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Bianca Niam wrote: I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how? Same as the people "catching up", the people they are catching up to will be able to get these SP. So, what's your point again? You're pretty thick between the ears if you can't see what I mean. 1+1 is also 2 just an fyi.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 158	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:42:19 - [136] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Bianca Niam wrote: I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how? 1. 'Catching up' is a lie. You don't need lots of skills to play this game and 'have a chance'. 2. Like with other tools for 'catching up' like implants or skill injectors other players have the same tools. And if you need to 'catch up' then you most possible do not have much ISK and thus have a problem 'catching up' more established and rich players. 3. Thanks to 'catching up' Eve constantly loses something unique. First it was races (each in game race had different attributes and starting set of skills), then skill queue (needed planning to not get empty when you cannot log in), then came learning skills (do not even undock until you've got all of them to V, anyone?), .... And still new players need to 'catch up'. I guess only complete removal of skill tree and ISK from the game will get us to the point when no more 'catching up' threads will appear? I strongly disagree. A new character is a target in so many ways, SP is just one of them. You can't fly strong ships, you can't fit them right, you can't even do things needed to get the stuff to make them somewhat competent. That takes SP, and in EVE, that means 'time'. You don't get SP by doing missions or other activities like other games let you do. It's being used as a stand in for XP like other games have, but also as a throttle to keep newer players learning at a reasonable pace. Experienced players with new accounts got punished by not being able to 'level' them fast enough to be useful right away. With the Skill Injectors, that issue is now GONE. This new 'daily' process is a way to let players that log in regularly get some kind of boost to their game play results. For a casual player like me (log in a couple times a week), it's not going to do much for me other than to let my same account alt start getting some SP, which is a nice bonus but it will be slow going. For a regular, daily, player it becomes a decent SP stream for a same account alt to start improving Level 1 & 2 skills, making them useful for minor things within a month or so. For a long time player using it for a main, it's a reason to check in daily and get another Skill Extractor made that can be pumped into an alt, a corporation, or for ISK. The only problem I see is that veterans that earned it the hard way over time feel like their past time gain is being cheated. That is true from a certain point of view (to go all Obi-Wan on the topic), but if you flip that perspective around, you aren't restricted from taking advantage of it yourself so it's not like it's really hurting you or the game, it's just a change and one you can use to your benefit. So, I'd flip that frown upside down and see WHAT you can do with it rather than worry about 'what was'. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron 1744	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:59:37 - [137] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: I strongly disagree. A new character is a target in so many ways, SP is just one of them. You can't fly strong ships, you can't fit them right, you can't even do things needed to get the stuff to make them somewhat competent. That takes SP, and in EVE, that means 'time'. You don't get SP by doing missions or other activities like other games let you do. 1. You don't understand progression and mechanics of this game: - 'strong ships' and 'strong fits' need 'strong' ISK - flying 'strong ship with strong fit' without actual experience leads to 'strong' lossmails. 2. You don't need to spend your time to get SP - you can simply buy character from character market. Whatever set of skills you want - you can get. Again - you need ISK. And we are talking about 'new player' here. 3. As i said: you are removing unique aspects of Eve Online. Not because it is needed but because you don't understand it. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8774	Posted - 2016.04.14 16:00:06 - [138] - Quote Terranid Meester wrote: Yarosara Ruil wrote: You should have seen the ruckus they did when they announced the Skill Injectors. Many people deleted their characters out of disgust, others said it would kill EVE. Bunch of drama llamas!. Skill injectors are fine imo as they come from currently trained skill points and they can be blown up which is very amusing just like when plex is. Dailies however are NOT ok. In case you havn't seen it this a quote from a CCP department - 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.'. That's found here - CCP Skill Injectors Blog Yep, also they stated when removing limits to the skillqueue that they wanted to get rid of the limitations that people had when they could not check out skills in a daily or weekly basis, so they will not lose skillpoints. And now they are just adding something what would return that situation, even make it worse. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Phased Plasma Test Alliance Please Ignore 37	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:55:02 - [139] - Quote To all the newer players saying "well it gives us newer players a chance to get into bigger ships better and fly them well" heres some news for ya: eve isn't about everyone having the same sp, same opportunities, same isk etc. etc. It is a place where time spent ingame = more reward = more sp = more isk etc. etc. If you want a game where you can just waltz in and have all the things that the 10 year old players have then stop playing eve and find something else. One of the unique aspects and core mechanics of eve IS SP it means you cant just come in and do everything that others can because it makes you actually think about what you want to do in eve and how you are going to get there. eve is a thinking game, you won't make it if you are dumb or impatient. So stop saying "it will give us a boost" because that boost is still open to all players so when they also get this 'boost' then it will make absolutely no difference. If you wanna become a good player then learn to fly what you can right now and worry about the bigger stuff when you have the sp. Or just buy a character or something. Follow me at @PhasedPlasma
Dani Gallar University of Caille Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2016.04.14 19:22:15 - [140] - Quote Phased Plasma wrote: To all the newer players saying "well it gives us newer players a chance to get into bigger ships better and fly them well" heres some news for ya: eve isn't about everyone having the same sp, same opportunities, same isk etc. etc. It is a place where time spent ingame = more reward = more sp = more isk etc. etc. If you want a game where you can just waltz in and have all the things that the 10 year old players have then stop playing eve and find something else. One of the unique aspects and core mechanics of eve IS SP it means you cant just come in and do everything that others can because it makes you actually think about what you want to do in eve and how you are going to get there. eve is a thinking game, you won't make it if you are dumb or impatient. So stop saying "it will give us a boost" because that boost is still open to all players so when they also get this 'boost' then it will make absolutely no difference. If you wanna become a good player then learn to fly what you can right now and worry about the bigger stuff when you have the sp. Or just buy a character or something. As one of those newer players (soon to hit 1 month) I see this as a welcome boost to SP generation but it's not something I feel is needed for me to stay in EVE, there's other factors which are far more important that Skill Points/Hour. Excellent to hear that CCP changed it so that only 1 character/account can get the bonus ... for me it means that I might consider going for a 'slow training' Alt for Trading or something simillar instead of artificially boosting Dani to get some skills slightly quicker.
Rex Usurious Indulgent Enterprises 8	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:09:55 - [141] - Quote Some amusing considerations: 1. Log in. Corp members are forming up for imminent PvP but you only have 30 minutes to play. Join PvP or get 10k sp? (esp. for wh people who don't always have npc on tap like station dwellers) 2. High sec corps for indy/missions (lots of new players in these right?) gets wardecced. This is often tough for new players but now instead of "Hey guys I can't do my missions this sucks I quit" it will be "Hey guys I can't get my sp this sucks I quit." Even more fail cascades b/c SP is more valuable than isk. This is good for encouraging social interaction and in-game activities? Or how about this: the logic is that if people log in daily, they will do stuff in eve and make the game better. Well what if people were logged in -all the time-? That would lead to -even more- people doing stuff, right? So give a sp/hour boost while logged in. Bam. Creates the same effect with none of the hoops to jump through. It maximizes the time people are logged in and being logged in is good right? This exposes the fallacy. It is not that they actually want people logged in every day, all the time. That actually doesn't lead to content/interactions. Its just a bean counter booster like any phone game. The real goal is to artificially inflate daily unique log-in statistics.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 170	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:21:53 - [142] - Quote Bianca Niam wrote: Neuntausend wrote: Bianca Niam wrote: I like it. People will be able to (sort of) catch up. 10000 skill points per day. Umm this is bad how? Same as the people "catching up", the people they are catching up to will be able to get these SP. So, what's your point again? You're pretty thick between the ears if you can't see what I mean. 1+1 is also 2 just an fyi. The irony is strong with this post.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 166	Posted - 2016.04.15 00:03:50 - [143] - Quote March rabbit wrote: 1. You don't understand progression and mechanics of this game: - 'strong ships' and 'strong fits' need 'strong' ISK - flying 'strong ship with strong fit' without actual experience leads to 'strong' lossmails. I understand them just fine but it's a sandbox. If my newbie frigate I just got in missions, runs up against a veteran in the same tech frigate or higher with a far better fit, I could be the better pilot but all things being equal, I still lose because I didn't have the same SP, it makes a difference in the game. You are also patterning around a Ship to Ship PvP perspective, lossmails mean little to Creators/Explorers/Miners. SP still means a lot to those players. March rabbit wrote: 2. You don't need to spend your time to get SP - you can simply buy character from character market. Whatever set of skills you want - you can get. Again - you need ISK. And we are talking about 'new player' here. Not certain what bearing this has on a little bit of SP that you can grab each day by going out and taking down an NPC ship with a chosen character. It actually illustrates that there are already other methods of getting SP so this new one shouldn't be much of an issue. New players would have no idea how to negotiate the Character Baazar and restructure the skills on the character effectively, which speaks to your progression mechanics. Those are not going to be impacted much by this change, the levels of SP given are very minor. March rabbit wrote: 3. As i said: you are removing unique aspects of Eve Online. Not because it is needed but because you don't understand it. I am removing nothing. CCP is adding another way to gain SP if you choose to do it. If you don't, it has very little impact on you either way. The cry about skill injectors completely disrupting the game was horrible, until even those fighting against it started seeing the benefits of it. I expect this will have an even smaller impact than that, probably by a factor of 100. I'm not advocating for it, but I don't see the damage in it. I'll do it as well when it's available. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Wexiz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2016.04.15 00:25:37 - [144] - Quote Rex Usurious wrote: Or how about this: the logic is that if people log in daily, they will do stuff in eve and make the game better. Well what if people were logged in -all the time-? That would lead to -even more- doing stuff, right? I think they have to be careful with dailies especially as this is supposed to be a sandbox. So far I've only heard of the 1 daily, if there's a lot of dailies and they offer special rewards, what can happen is you spend a lot of time doing dailies, but you don't really feel like you're playing the game. Eventually people realise that, get bored and leave.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2016.04.15 05:48:15 - [145] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc From here. Long and confused. And this already did drive a guy to drink. A signature :o

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