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Clarification about shooting inside PoS shields

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:33:00 - [271] Originally by: Kahlan Rahl Btw. I got scammed by the freeform contract system! This wasnt a intented feature for the freeform system so he who scammed me should get banned! If not i will cancel all my 13 accounts. Actually, I think that was the whole point of Freeform, to make scamming remain possible. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:33:00 - [272] Originally by: Sharkbait i'm trying to find out the exact design for the starbase shields. once i have then i will do some news thing and a forum post about it. i'm not really as clued up with the ingame features as i used to be. i will keep you informed and will have sorted this early this week. as it stands i would advise you to set a password but allow corp and allaince members to enter the field. no one will be able to shoot them if thats done. it does also appear that if there is no password set then only corporation members and items are safe in the field. alliance members and other guests are not safe. it really is best you set a password. The problem is with a password, a simple noob spy can give out the info. It's more dangerous than without. ----- History is made by whinners
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:46:00 - [273] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Sharkbait i'm trying to find out the exact design for the starbase shields. once i have then i will do some news thing and a forum post about it. i'm not really as clued up with the ingame features as i used to be. i will keep you informed and will have sorted this early this week. as it stands i would advise you to set a password but allow corp and allaince members to enter the field. no one will be able to shoot them if thats done. it does also appear that if there is no password set then only corporation members and items are safe in the field. alliance members and other guests are not safe. it really is best you set a password. The problem is with a password, a simple noob spy can give out the info. It's more dangerous than without. Then don't give out the pw? _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:58:00 - [274] Then how do you invite allies in your poses ? You have two choices : 1 - pasworded -> password leaking (especially against some alliances known to have spies everywhere aka Bob or Goons) 2 - not passworded -> ennemies can still shoot allies. ----- History is made by whinners
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.19 19:34:00 - [275] Edited by: Kaganis Warmonkey on 19/02/2007 19:33:58 Originally by: FXSlacker If there is major battle and I want to share my POS, I must pass out the passwd? Yes, if they aren't in your corp or alliance. If they are in your corp, just tick "Allow Corp". If they are in your alliance, just tick "Allow Alliance". Please, please don't ask me what happens when you have "Allow Alliance" on, but "Allow Corp" off.... Quote: How smart is it that a game mechanic requires that I send the passwd for a POS to 100's of players so they can be protected (or steal my POS)? They won't be able to steal your POS. To off-line / unanchor / manage / access resource anything in the POS they need to be a member of the POS owning corp, and have the appropriate corp roles. All the password does is let them inside the bubble. Originally by: Susan Acid Sorry,but does this mean that if an enemy is given the POS password they can use it to get into the POS or do they need positive standings and the password? Standings have no relation on if someone can enter a bubble. Only if the POS guns shoot at them or not. Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn You have two choices : 1 - pasworded -> password leaking (especially against some alliances known to have spies everywhere aka Bob or Goons) 2 - not passworded -> ennemies can still shoot allies and they can't shoot back. Case 1. Bad guys with the password can get in, nick stuff left in space, and bump people out. Case 2. Bad guys can get in, nick stuff left in space, and bump people out. They can also shoot some of the people in there. Having a password > Not having a password.
Qu'ut Nez Minmatar Norges Sildesalgslag	Posted - 2007.02.19 20:04:00 - [276] Originally by: Kaganis Warmonkey I should point out, having the password does not stop the guns shooting you (AFAIK... ). And it shouldn't, BUT will you get shot if you are inside the shields? As for passwords leaking, that's just cool security stuff that adds to the fun. ------ [SILD]
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2007.02.19 20:20:00 - [277] Originally by: Qu'ut Nez Originally by: Kaganis Warmonkey I should point out, having the password does not stop the guns shooting you (AFAIK... ). And it shouldn't, BUT will you get shot if you are inside the shields? if u get the password the pos dont shoot u @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.19 20:29:00 - [278] Originally by: Sharkbait it does also appear that if there is no password set then only corporation members and items are safe in the field. alliance members and other guests are not safe. it really is best you set a password. Incredibly illogical 'feature' if thats infact the way it was designed. How can a forcefield know who the missiles are intended for? Nice design bruva!!!!! No matter what you achieve in this game, it'll will always be tainted by the fact you cheated to get there.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.02.19 20:45:00 - [279] Originally by: Kessa Nova Originally by: Frug snip But something is strange to me. If this whole thing is due to no password being set, thus allowing the BoB guys to attack the ships inside... WHY was only one carrier affected? What about -everybody- else inside the POS? Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't everyone else soon start getting pwned? snip Because, this case (as seen in the Fraps), is as I said, nothing to do with targetting people inside the bubble. It is down only to missiles continuing to follow legitimately targeted ships inside POS bubbles to deliver their damage, as so as to not nerf them compared with direct fire weapons. This thread has been competely taken over by the fanatics who want to see cheats everywhere, and they won't let rationality stand in their way. It is a pretty sad reflection upon the state of the community. McCarthy would be proud. I've read your posts and I have to say that just being rude, arrogant, calling grade school math flaky because it's too much for you, and constantly reiterating a point that anyone can see is not the case in the video isn't convincing me. Sorry. I'm rather sure this has to do with the whole password issue. But again, why only the one carrier? Was that carrier the only alliance member not in the same corp as the other guys there? - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
thoradh AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:29:00 - [280] Dammit That video, and the CCP response to it, are UNBELIEVABLE I mean, I'm sitting here LMAOing, because I've accepted for a long time now that BoD really are deadly serious about winning EVE by ANY means necessary, and boy do they mean it > > Noli illegitimi carborundum! >

Pax Uranus Pimpin Women Near You	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:32:00 - [281] Here we go again, 'round and 'round. The sad part is, this game is good enough to keep many of us trapped and a lot of this doesn't affect those in the carebear population much anyways. There's really not much impetus to actually clean anything up since they know they've got a captive audience. Hence, these fun incidents and rulings keep happening.
s4mp3r0r ZiTek Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:32:00 - [282] i wonder who made it this way ? errr t-20 ? Quote: I wish i could tell you more but I was sworn to absolute secrecy!
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.02.19 22:11:00 - [283] haw haw - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.19 22:49:00 - [284] Originally by: Pax Uranus this game is good enough to keep many of us trapped If there was an EVE equivalent out there, im sure youd see eve subscription numbers drastically decline. But hey, while theres nothing like it out there "Screw the consumer, we're a monopoly!" No matter what you achieve in this game, it'll will always be tainted by the fact you cheated to get there.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.02.20 00:00:00 - [285] The alternative would have to rip off so much stuff so directly to be good enough to warrent a move... And then any company that ripped off all those ideas wouldn't be the kind of company i'd want to support... - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
WHOSYADADDY Caldari ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.20 00:48:00 - [286] Quote: hmm. I dont understand why everyone is flaming bob for this when that outbreak guy told that D2 had done the EXACT same thing? I dont know where you are getting this info. D2 has never dont this. You must be a toxin = Bob alts for the rest of eve that didnt know this yet.
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.02.20 01:11:00 - [287] Originally by: Frug The alternative would have to rip off so much stuff so directly to be good enough to warrent a move... And then any company that ripped off all those ideas wouldn't be the kind of company i'd want to support... Then CCP would sue the company that ripped then off... lol PERKOSET & OXYCODONE IS FUN!!! Lets see how long till this post lives...
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.20 03:51:00 - [288] Originally by: Sharkbait i'm trying to find out the exact design for the starbase shields. once i have then i will do some news thing and a forum post about it. i'm not really as clued up with the ingame features as i used to be. i will keep you informed and will have sorted this early this week. as it stands i would advise you to set a password but allow corp and allaince members to enter the field. no one will be able to shoot them if thats done. it does also appear that if there is no password set then only corporation members and items are safe in the field. alliance members and other guests are not safe. it really is best you set a password. Mate, it is year 2007, and you guys are trying to figure out how it works now? And only after video of BoB "taking advantage of it" has been released? (ASCN people petitioned it and whined about it back in December, when they got ganked in 0OY, but were laughed at) Are you, seriously, trying to convince people that POS shields are not supposed to protect your allies and assets, even without password? Can't you just say "No, this is not the way POS shields are intented to work, it's a bug, we will fix it asap!"? Pitty. You had something beautiful here...
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.02.20 04:32:00 - [289] Edited by: Maglorre on 20/02/2007 04:31:06 Originally by: Susan Acid Sorry,but does this mean that if an enemy is given the POS password they can use it to get into the POS or do they need positive standings and the password? Why are you apologising? It's not your fault... But to answer your question, no. The POS and it's weapons mods WILL NOT shoot anything inside it's shield. Which is another interesting twist in the illogic that is POS. Hostiles inside the POS force field can't shoot at friendlys inside or outside the shield (can't target!) and the POS will not shoot them. If the hostile is outside the field they can target and shoot friendlys if the password is not set. We had another interesting thing a week or so ago. Fleet was told to warp to a friendly (alliance owned) POS. Some of us had bookamrks, some of us just warped to the moon and the POS was about 50km from the warp in point. Out of 8 or so member corps represented in the gang, there were 4 of them that were targetted and shot by the POS (unless they happened to be lucky enough to already have the bookmark and landed inside the shield). We lost a good few ships to our own alliance's POS. Everyone was screaming at the corp owning the POS but it turns out it was all set correctly and we were told to petition the ship losses. I'd hate to be the dev given the job of fixing the POS logic .
alpheon Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 04:59:00 - [290] Dear Dev's, please inform ALL GM's of how this works... Dear Dev's, please document the features and functionality of the game. Dear Dev's, fix this, right now. I'm starting to run out of things to be shocked at. We've heard of BoB doing this for a long time, and I was in ASCN, and saw it happen. Our peitions were returned with mix results. And now that theres proof? jesus... talk about reinforcing the perception that BoB = BoD... get your act togeather.

Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude	Posted - 2007.02.20 05:09:00 - [291] FFS passwords have absolutly nothing to do with this at all. Nothing apart from the control tower itself can be or should be targeted while the forcefield is active period. You should not even be able to target your own corp members in a forcefield of a POS that is your own corporations regardless of passwords. All the password does is allow ppl who know it to be able to enter it and no more! Missiles will follow a target into the forcefield but the player that targeted will lose lock and be unable to fire anymore. I suppose it is feasable that 2 salvos could in fact be fired and follow a target in BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Lets look at it a different way. Suppose BOB had been attacking the POS and there were Carriers or Logistic ships with shield transfers inside it that also had passive targeters fitted. If these ships had been seen to be boosting the shields from inside the bubble by using this method the GM's would have been petitioned and the ppl doing would have be warned straight away and threatened with further action if they persisted. There would be none of this speculation and the GM's refusing to take a stand on this issue. If you think I'm being harsh think back a year or 18 months when ppl were using the wasp heavy drones that had insane tracking (think it was them) As soon as it was known to the GM's a post was made that actually said ppl would be banned from playing the game if they carried on using them. Sure the bug wasn't itself sorted at that time, a patch did that later. GM's you need to regain the confidence in the PPL that play this game. You need to be seen to take a stand and stop beating around the bush on some things but taking action on other things quickly and effectivly. Stop being seen to be partial and favouring some for the sake of the game please!
Shadowdeath Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.20 05:14:00 - [292] Hello unpleasant crowd of bob haters. As I above all do not like to be called a cheater, and secondly because I love to fling people their own nauseous crap up their face (in a "LOOK AT THAT SCREENSHOT, TITAN IS OUT OF FORCEFIELD AND GOT SMARTBOMBED" way), I shall let you see the fraps of the exact same attack from my point of view, that of one of the dreadnaughts attacking SBOCharest. People with a clue or two will see none of the crazy exploit the like of you have been speculating about is involved (ZOMG NO PASSIVE TARGETERS!!!!1111). http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0702/notacheater.avi My guess is that piloted ships locked outside of non-passworded starbases remain locked by hostiles when they enter the starbase forcefield. This is my interpretation of the 3 videos and what was posted there by Jiekon. I have not tried to reproduce this on test server. Exploit petition was filed by myself and at least another BOB member to help resolve that problem by giving our account of what happened that day. It's in my opinion a bugged behaviour and should be fixed, but unfortunately for all the bod lovers, I'm not one to decide what should be fixed and what is a feature. Nor am I a whining crybaby. It is the current game mechanic, live with it or log off. Until it's fixed, or even if it's not, simple workaround if you happen to be in the same situation is to warp away and back to non-passworded POS, which SBOCharest's thanatos wingmate figured by himself while his friend was being pounded and, apparently, panicking/being a lemming. Alternatively, as stated before, you can set a password. All of you 'omg devhax' sore losers need to realize your OWN behaviour and general failure at grasping facts, game mechanics & on a wider scale reality that's got the general atmosphere as bad as it is today. Get off the tinfoil. I also give a thumb down to CCP for the way this particular event is being handled. Not exactly what's needed right now, is it ? I shall not make another post on this matter, nor shall I try to reason irrational and deluded souls. Feel free to flame me though, I do enjoy it a lot. Would allow me to compare official forums quality with that of TCF alliance ones ¼_¼
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2007.02.20 05:21:00 - [293] Edited by: ceaon on 20/02/2007 05:22:27 man don't lose your time none will believe u @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.20 06:10:00 - [294] Originally by: Shadowdeath All of you 'omg devhax' sore losers need to realize your OWN behaviour and general failure at grasping facts, game mechanics & on a wider scale reality that's got the general atmosphere as bad as it is today. Get off the tinfoil. You don't get it. This is not about BoB. This is about CCP. 1. People got ganked in 0OY, in December 2006, without leaving shields. 2. Carrier got shot at, after being outside shields, then coming back into shields. 3. I (and many others) had no trouble breaking dread's lock on someone else's POS, without password, when coming in/out from/to shields. Last time I did it in C9N, and even got popped by LUKEC because I didn't make it back to shields in time. Nothing wrong there. That's how it should work. 4. People (except BoB, so far - someone mentioned LV/D2, but I have no idea if it's true, nor did I experience it myself) were never able to target anything inside POS shields, no matter whose POS it was, or what the setup was. It is not BoB's fault that this can happen - it's just that BoB was the only one it happened to, in documented manner, so of course people mention BoB. 5. It, seemingly, started happening after "Revelations" 6. GMs were giving "can not happen, bye" types of responses to people who petitioned 0OY gankage, inside POS shields 7. Devs/GMs can't even give us clear answers to simple questions, on how POSes work And we "fail" at "grasping facts and game mechanics"? How the **** can we fail at grasping game mechanics, when it's not documented anywhere, everyone has different experiences and you get conflicting responses from GMs/devs all the time? Game mechanics come from /dev/random, it seems, so no wonder we can't grasp them. There is a saying: "If something doesn't work, try reading the manual". Wish we could do that...
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.02.20 06:31:00 - [295] Originally by: Shadowdeath It's in my opinion a bugged behaviour and should be fixed, but unfortunately for all the bod lovers, I'm not one to decide what should be fixed and what is a feature. Nor am I a whining crybaby. It is the current game mechanic, live with it or log off. OK, you seem to be admitting it's a bug. So how many times have your members submitted bug reports and petitions to ask about this bug and if it can be used? That seems to be the correct procedure in these matters, not "live with it or log off" and not "hey, this is cool, we can use this to our advantage". Unfortunately it is possible to hide behind the "we can't discuss petition responses" and "bug reports have no response mechanism" so I don't really see how it can be resolved.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.20 06:39:00 - [296] Edited by: Goumindong on 20/02/2007 06:38:04 Originally by: Shadowdeath snip You do realize that by giving the account that the ship was in fact in the force field and locked, that given all previous accounts of the way the game should have worked before the GM response to this petition you were exploiting a known bug. Right? You have never, before this incident been able to shoot at anything inside a POS bubble that isnt the tower. If you are shooting at anything inside the bubble that isnt a tower then you have been exploiting according to knowledge given before this incident. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.02.20 07:10:00 - [297] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/02/2007 07:08:38 We've destroyed a secure giant container in a pos a few days ago, after the pos went into reinforcement mode. So it was still inside the shield. Actually I don't know, if we were able to do it, because the pos was in reinforcement or because of this game mechanic. I don't know every little detail about it. In this case I don't really care, seemed at least like a feature. ( Well, and if it was not intended I think it was also not intended, that those containers were anchored there. Hehe. ) ------ No.1 reason to post with an alt: Avoiding that your main looks too silly.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.20 07:25:00 - [298] The guy who designed POS must no longer work for CCP. This is the only reason I can see that even they dont know how they work! No matter what you achieve in this game, it'll will always be tainted by the fact you cheated to get there.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.20 08:11:00 - [299] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Pax Uranus this game is good enough to keep many of us trapped If there was an EVE equivalent out there, im sure youd see eve subscription numbers drastically decline. But hey, while theres nothing like it out there "Screw the consumer, we're a monopoly!" Help me get some capital and I guarantee we could turn out a space MMORPG that would blow Eve out of the nebula. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
DaHeaVYFo Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.20 09:24:00 - [300] Originally by: thoradh That video, and the CCP response to it, are UNBELIEVABLE Yeh, replicate it?? WHICH part of the EXPLOIT did you NOT SEE??! This is truely unbelievable. I think i'll turn my back to MMO's now... o/



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