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Clarification about shooting inside PoS shields

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:09:00 - [31] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 10:06:09 Originally by: Chribba afaik that movie is old and that's now how it works nowdays. I just tried on my own POS, you are not able to lock with a passive targetter. Locking outside and have the ship move inside the shields works fine however I lost lock as soon as I activated a module. The video cannot be old, it shows the current fleet system in operation, and no other sieging conflicts occured recently within the time frame of that implementation. As well, it shows a character gaining stat bonuses from a fleet commander. Fleet commanders cannot give bonuses without wing commander 5. As well it shows 3 wings with people in them meaning that the fleet commander must have at least fleet commander 3. Wing commander is a rank 8 skill and fleet commander a rank 12 skill. This puts minimum training time for the skills somewhere around a month and a half. Kali was released in early november. Which puts the date on the video at the earliest around december 15th assuming the fleet commander burned up the tree to the skill without taking any detours. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Goumindong This is false, if you are locked outside a POS bubble and travel back inside the POS bubble the lock is broken. If the lock is not broken the game mechanics are either not working, or there is an exploit in play. I suggest you fiddle around with POSs before you comment on how they bubbles are supposed to work. I stand corrected. I think your maths is a crock of crap though, im not sure all that nerdiness proved anything. Anyway, I'm sure we'll see some crowing if the petition gets reimbursed.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Kessa Nova Originally by: Chribba afaik that movie is old and that's now how it works nowdays. I just tried on my own POS, you are not able to lock with a passive targetter. Locking outside and have the ship move inside the shields works fine however I lost lock as soon as I activated a module. Have you got an alt in your corp you could fire a missile at when he is outside the shields, and tell us what happens if he moves inside the shields before the missile hits? Irrelevent, it is impossible for the situation you describe to have happened in the video. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:12:00 - [34] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Originally by: Goumindong This is false, if you are locked outside a POS bubble and travel back inside the POS bubble the lock is broken. If the lock is not broken the game mechanics are either not working, or there is an exploit in play. I suggest you fiddle around with POSs before you comment on how they bubbles are supposed to work. I stand corrected. I think your maths is a crock of crap though, im not sure all that nerdiness proved anything. Anyway, I'm sure we'll see some crowing if the petition gets reimbursed. Why is my math a crock of crap? Watch the video, look at the locations of the ships and the distances given on the overview and by selection. Check the speed of citadel torps. Compare the dsitance they have to travel with the time that the bombardment occurs. if the bombardment occurs for longer than the missile flight time, then there is a bug or an exploit in effect. Since that can clearly be seen, there is a bug or exploit in effect. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Kessa Nova Originally by: Chribba afaik that movie is old and that's now how it works nowdays. I just tried on my own POS, you are not able to lock with a passive targetter. Locking outside and have the ship move inside the shields works fine however I lost lock as soon as I activated a module. Have you got an alt in your corp you could fire a missile at when he is outside the shields, and tell us what happens if he moves inside the shields before the missile hits? Results coming shortly. Help me help you .

Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Kessa Nova That's just not true sweetie, you can't clearly see that at all. You don't at any time see a ship launching missiles while the ship is inside the pos shield. wrong! at 01:14 you see Torpedo in his phoenix launching another salvo of torps at the carrier. btw - this fraps was made in yesterdays 7bx-op of D¦ ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:37:00 - [37] I'll withdraw my statement about the movie being old, I was mixing it up with this one Linkage Help me help you .

hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:42:00 - [38] well chribba time will tell lets see what CCP do
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:45:00 - [39] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 10:41:48 Originally by: Chribba I'll withdraw my statement about the movie being old, I was mixing it up with this one Linkage I thought the same thing until i looked a bit more closely, no fault there. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Chribba Update on missiles: FOF however ignores that there is a shield there and will fire off no matter if target is inside or not, or have moved in or started inside. But you cannot launch FOF from within the shield. well .. the problem hereby is - FOF missiles are only for the following "classes" available: light missile, heavy missile and cruise missile no torpedos, no citadel torpedos ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:51:00 - [41] so we need FOF citadels and capital torps

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Chribba Update on missiles: FOF however ignores that there is a shield there and will fire off no matter if target is inside or not, or have moved in or started inside. But you cannot launch FOF from within the shield. well .. the problem hereby is - FOF missiles are only for the following "classes" available: light missile, heavy missile and cruise missile no torpedos, no citadel torpedos Yeah I know the movie clearly does not show FOF's so the info about FOF is a bit OT, excuse my trolling Help me help you .

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 10:54:41 Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Chribba Update on missiles:snip snip no snip, no snip snip Then again, that info could have some very bad consequences. Like damaging structures inside a POS without destroying it... Probably should remove it, test it, and then get it out of the game... ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Ruby Silhouette Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:28:00 - [44] From what I heard, the petition was replied to saying that the POS did not have a password and therefore people could be shot in it. Personal standings were set though, and in the test server the conditions could not be reproduced and password or not there was no way to shoot through the POS shield. Obviously an exploit and petition hopefully is forwarded to a senior GM. Leave it to BoD to be able to shoot through POS shields and get away with it.
Ruby Silhouette Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:31:00 - [45] Edited by: Ruby Silhouette on 17/02/2007 11:28:07 doublepost
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:48:00 - [46] so missiles can penetrate the shield if theres no password? thats a lil silly imo. But watching the video its clear something is fishy about it. That lil cluster of 2/3 phoenix's seem to spew more then their fair share of torps at the nyx.
Ruby Silhouette Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche so missiles can penetrate the shield if theres no password? thats a lil silly imo. quote] Missiles cannot be launched at a target inside pos shields. But the GM who answered pulled an answer out of nowhere said they can (which has been proven to not work when tested), and BOB did so to kill a carrier, so obviously there is an exploit somewhere that allows it.
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Kumu Honua I believe this post is in reguards to this video: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/exploiters/cheater.avi they still use that exploit? HELLOOOOOOO CCCCCCCCPPPPPPP !!!!! Originally by: Dianabolic I've never cheated, I've never witnessed those I fly with, cheat and I guarentee you that if I DID witness such a thing I
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:58:00 - [49] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 17/02/2007 12:01:03 Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche so missiles can penetrate the shield if theres no password? thats a lil silly imo. But watching the video its clear something is fishy about it. That lil cluster of 2/3 phoenix's seem to spew more then their fair share of torps at the nyx. to clarify some things (though the gist of your post is mostly correct) #) missiles can enter the forcefield if the target moves into the forcefield AFTER the missiles were launched. BUT you can't (or atleast: you couldn't) launch missiles at a target if it was inside the forcefield. it worked this way as long as i can remember BUT the part where you can still launch missiles is new (and shown in the video) #) it was a thanatos, not a nyx #) the carrier didn't die inside the forcefield, but at a planet. seems the pilot got hasty as he might not have expect still to be shot though he was inside the forcefield - so he warped out as the POS forcefield was no protection to him. (don't nail me on this though) ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Fokus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 12:20:00 - [50] Edited by: Fokus on 17/02/2007 12:20:49 Edited by: Fokus on 17/02/2007 12:19:26 This really isn't good. If this is indeed BoB exploiting, I really have to hope that BoB goes down in this war. I am tired of seeing Titans destroyed because their pilots were offline, and exploiting the game would just be going too far. I have to suspect that there might be something else in play though. It seems it would be risky at best for someone in BoB to say 'hey lets all fit passive targeters to exploit' when they could easily have spies in their ranks to report such action. But Goumindong's observations are hard to argue with. And for those of you who don't know him he is the guy to go to with questions about statistics and math in this game. He has really enlightened me to more than a few things I hadn't considered. He takes as close to all angles into consideration as anyone I have ever spoken to, and misses little. We can just hope that regardless of whether BoB was exploiting here (and if they were I hope action is taken) that this gets fixed soon. Edited twice for spelling
Kessa Nova	Posted - 2007.02.17 12:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Goumindong Why is my math a crock of crap? Wel, I'm a bit of a air-head, and certainly no good at math .. but I missed the bit where you took the speed of the target ship in to account in your calcualtions. Care to point it out to me?
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 12:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Kessa Nova Originally by: Goumindong Why is my math a crock of crap? Wel, I'm a bit of a air-head, and certainly no good at math .. but I missed the bit where you took the speed of the target ship in to account in your calcualtions. Care to point it out to me? i think he left it out .. which is no problem at all imho why? citadel torpedos move without skills 750m/s a carrier moves without skills 75m/s so the speed of the target in comparison to the speed of the charges is around 10%. yeah, his (numerical) result will not be 100% correct - but still significant enough. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:02:00 - [53] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 13:02:36 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Kessa Nova Originally by: Goumindong Why is my math a crock of crap? Wel, I'm a bit of a air-head, and certainly no good at math .. but I missed the bit where you took the speed of the target ship in to account in your calcualtions. Care to point it out to me? i think he left it out .. which is no problem at all imho why? citadel torpedos move without skills 750m/s a carrier moves without skills 75m/s so the speed of the target in comparison to the speed of the charges is around 10%. yeah, his (numerical) result will not be 100% correct - but still significant enough. a target traveling directly away from the torpedo traveling 1050 km/s at a speed of 100km/s would, for a 60km distance, travel 5.7 km. This distance would equal about 6 seconds of travel time for the torpedo. Or a 9.5% deviation from the numbers given. That is +/- 9.5% since that could be taken either way depending on which way the carrier is traveling.[slightly less if traveling at the torpedo, which results in a smaller deviation, but +/- 10% is good enough for our purposes] That assumes that the target was traveling directly away from the torpedos however, which cannot be gaurenteed. Adding 10% to each value returns a 88 second unreasonable number and a 66 second reasonable number, still well within the bounds given by the video. It sould also be noted that the ship is clearly within the POS shields and has been for a significant time[if the exploit occured because it was outside the bubble then entered it] and we are discounting on the total time insdie the bubble that the ship has been taking fire. If only half the distance it traveled when the missiles were shot at it, then this would be 30 seconds of travel time, extending our flight time nessesity even farther. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:36:00 - [54] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Kumu Honua I believe this post is in reguards to this video: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/exploiters/cheater.avi they still use that exploit? HELLOOOOOOO CCCCCCCCPPPPPPP !!!!! HELLOOOOOOO XXXXXEEEEENNNNNDDDDIIIIIEEEEE I have tried to reproduce the exploit of being able to target someone while they are inside a POS forcefield with no success so unless someone can provide an exact duplication of the exploit that works every time, theres not much i can do to reproduce it. ________________________________ ~Jiekon ~CCP QA Known Issues Page The LogServer Easy Steps To Bug Reporting

NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:39:00 - [55] I can confirm to that when you go inside of the pos shield you will lose the lock. You want a proof?, just watch 'DaMiGe Control - Path To Curse' movie, and then go to 12 mins and 50 sec in the movie when INFOD are fighting NMTZ alliance. Then watch closely that smeggy that are our enemy there is going into the pos shield, and then everybody is loosing the lock when he gets inside the shield. Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
Dampfschlaghammer Minmatar Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:42:00 - [56] Edited by: Dampfschlaghammer on 17/02/2007 13:39:43 Originally by: Jiekon Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Kumu Honua I believe this post is in reguards to this video: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/exploiters/cheater.avi they still use that exploit? HELLOOOOOOO CCCCCCCCPPPPPPP !!!!! HELLOOOOOOO XXXXXEEEEENNNNNDDDDIIIIIEEEEE I have tried to reproduce the exploit of being able to target someone while they are inside a POS forcefield with no success so unless someone can provide an exact duplication of the exploit that works every time, theres not much i can do to reproduce it. Well apparently the GMs said it was caused by D2 not having set the pos forcefield. Tests some people made have not been able to reproduce that regardless of whether the pw was set or not, maybe you can test that / comment on it?

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer Well apparently the GMs said it was caused by D2 not having set the pos forcefield. Tests some people made have not been able to reproduce that regardless of whether the pw was set or not, maybe you can test that / comment on it? I have been able to shoot non boarded ships and structures inside a non passworded, online starbase. The powers that be have said that this is by design. I have been unable to target or shoot boarded ships inside a non passworded, online starbase. I cannot comment on the D2 issue as i do not have all the facts of the events. ________________________________ ~Jiekon ~CCP QA Known Issues Page The LogServer Easy Steps To Bug Reporting

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:50:00 - [58] Originally by: Jiekon Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer Well apparently the GMs said it was caused by D2 not having set the pos forcefield. Tests some people made have not been able to reproduce that regardless of whether the pw was set or not, maybe you can test that / comment on it? I have been able to shoot non boarded ships and structures inside a non passworded, online starbase. The powers that be have said that this is by design. I have been unable to target or shoot boarded ships inside a non passworded, online starbase. I cannot comment on the D2 issue as i do not have all the facts of the events. Does this happen by default? Or is there a specific manner in which you have to target them? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:51:00 - [59] From testing, this happens by default, ship is launched from an assembly array (or whatever) and it is targetable if the starbase does not have a password set to it. ________________________________ ~Jiekon ~CCP QA Known Issues Page The LogServer Easy Steps To Bug Reporting

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:55:00 - [60] Thanks, that clears at least one thing up. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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