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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:10:00 -
[31]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:46:32 It doesn't help to make a new 9037803783 page topic about the D2 titan loss as long the titan pilot didn't know at all that BoC had did something to his ship so it didn't disapear as it should when there is no enemy agression.
How many ******* times do we have to say that the agression timer was not meant to be used in this way, it was meant to avoid peoples to log WHILE they are in fight.
I have sayed this like 100000 billion times today, and you still don't get it
Yeah i may whine a lot in your eyes, but i have a reason for it though.
I can guarantee that alot of peoples will quit EVE over that if that doesn't get fixed soon, because it's going to happen soon again if it's not fixed.
simply solution and its even coded into the game. Turn combatmessages ON. A popup box will report any damage and if you click "log" in your menue it will display damage done to your ship after you entered the current system. Simple but effective.
Aggressing the titan in this case is like aggressing a freighter before he manages to log to save his her ship. You can claim all you want that this feature is not "working as intended" sadly it wont change the outcome. That he choose to ignore all safty features is his thing and he has to take the blame for it. Especially if you fly the most exspensive ship of your whole alliance...
Nope it's not, when a freighter try to log off while he's still cloaked at the gate, then he KNOWS that he is going to be attacked, and therefor try to log off to save his ship.
The thing with the titan is something totally different, because he logged off while he was sure he was safe and no enemier around him then. And the titan pilot had to log because of rl stuffs, and not because he knows he was about to get attacked.
The titan pilot being an idiot doesnt suddenly make it an exploit.
At the end of the day, if this was a goonswarm or RA kill on an LV titan, Everyone, and by that I mean 99% of you flamers, would be saying "good job, nice move"
Why were there no crys of OMG LAME when they brought 1000 to LVs titan in production, used the first 200 to crash the node and the rest to hold the system while the defenders tried to log on.
Why were there no crys of 'lame' from you guys when D2 were caught using an official website to get BoB IPs?
Why didnt you cry 'lame' when an ISS director offlined an entire systems worth of towers for goonswarm? How is THAT intended by the game mechanics?
Why wernt you crying lame about the recent hacking on so many different servers?
I'll tell you why; because when its done to BoB and allies it is considered genious, when its done by them its considered lame.
Thats all there is to it. You Hate BoB.
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Ascend Alt
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:12:00 -
[32]
First - the bob fanboism of exuro mortis knows no bounds
Second - you have WAY too much time on your hands.
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Powdder
CL0CKW0RK 0RANGE
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi At the end of the day, if this was a goonswarm or RA kill on an LV titan, Everyone, and by that I mean 99% of you flamers, would be saying "good job, nice move"
Why were there no crys of OMG LAME when they brought 1000 to LVs titan in production, used the first 200 to crash the node and the rest to hold the system while the defenders tried to log on.
Why were there no crys of 'lame' from you guys when D2 were caught using an official website to get BoB IPs?
Why didnt you cry 'lame' when an ISS director offlined an entire systems worth of towers for goonswarm? How is THAT intended by the game mechanics?
Why wernt you crying lame about the recent hacking on so many different servers?
I'll tell you why; because when its done to BoB and allies it is considered genious, when its done by them its considered lame.
Thats all there is to it. You Hate BoB.
seeing as RAGoons are fighting Lv/BoB most of the eve community is giving RAGoons a nod to fight the best way they can. While LV/BoB wont get that nod because they have been fighting with such underhanded tactics for soooo long (YEARS). The bottom line is this; BoB and LV deserve to be kicked to empire space for their actions past present and future. Don't believe me? Then ask yourself this; WHY DOES THE EVE COMMUNITY HATE THEM SO MUCH? is it because they smell funny?? I hardly think so. ALL I can hope for is the rest of the community continues to stand agiant them. Pow
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:13:00 -
[34]
Would it be so difficult to make a visible time that lets you know when its safe to log off. With so many weird and wonderful things that can agress you, often without you knowing (passive targeters or friendly ship failing an ecm on you maybe?), i can't see it being that difficult to make a timer like that.
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Laura Baretta It is in game so it is legit.
Even when it's ingame it doesn't mean that it's supposed to be used like some peoples are understanding it to work.
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Atreus Minmatarius
Fatalix Inc. Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:14:00 -
[36]
how hard it is to put agression timer??
and yeah of course you can blame somebody else when a problem so easyly fixed remains a problem
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Nooey
Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Powdder don't kid yourself. To somehow make this out to be D2's fault is low, very very low.
How is it not D2's fault? Care to explain? If a nubcake nobody like me can figure out how to keep a Titan safe, why couldn't an alliance of thousands? Sure hindsight is 20/20 and I never thought of this on my own until post-event. Are you telling me that it's acceptable than an alliance their size didn't braintstorm for every possible way to lose it?
Are you saying it's BoB's fault for doing what Eve has always been about?
Are you saying it's CCP's fault for implementing game mechanics almost a year ago that were subsequently ignored/overlooked by D2?
Quote: Right in line to BoB's way of thinking.
And CCP's. (And I can just imagine how some people will latch on to that one, don't even bother, tbh)
Quote: I hope like hell the rest of the eve community continues to ostracize BoB's actions and and I hope to see yet MORE of the community stand against BoB due to the underhanded way they are playing this game. Pow
Hey guess what, so does Molle by all accounts. Remember his words? "More, bring MORE". You act like they're frightened of consequence. They welcome it with open arms.
If the entire universe gets up in arms about this sort of thing, great. That's a good thing, that's action and consequence. That's what seperates Eve from countless other games, it's the players taking actions, not the GM's (again, don't bother latching on to that, seriously).
Do you honestly think that if they cared so much about that, they'd have ever sanctioned an act like this?
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sakana
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:17:00 -
[38]
i read the first disclaimer and got bored when i saw how many posts it went on for....
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shin Ra Would it be so difficult to make a visible time that lets you know when its safe to log off. With so many weird and wonderful things that can agress you, often without you knowing (passive targeters or friendly ship failing an ecm on you maybe?), i can't see it being that difficult to make a timer like that.
Yeo good idea. Doesnt make the loss an exploit though now does it
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nooey Talk about how the game should be all you like guys. It's a good discussion to have by all means.
The point remains however.
If you do not embrace the current reality of how things are, you will lose a Titan and have nobody to blame but yourself. It is not CCP's fault you refused to act according to the current reality of game mechanics. Acting according to your perception of how the game should be will only end badly for you.
That is the only point I made.
Bright one, why do you think this war is going on? Because only BoB/LV/FiX/MC are happy with the current reality, everybody elses doesn't. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Nooey Talk about how the game should be all you like guys. It's a good discussion to have by all means.
The point remains however.
If you do not embrace the current reality of how things are, you will lose a Titan and have nobody to blame but yourself. It is not CCP's fault you refused to act according to the current reality of game mechanics. Acting according to your perception of how the game should be will only end badly for you.
That is the only point I made.
Bright one, why do you think this war is going on? Because only BoB/LV/FiX/MC are happy with the current reality, everybody elses doesn't.
No its because of the bull**** and lies that keeps getting posted here and believed.
Go read the top 20 threads. Notice how anything said in the OPs is automatically taken as fact. For example DICE losing a titan or BoB using Passive targetting exploits to kill D2s titan
People on here are idiots, and sheep. They will believe ANYTHING that reflects badly on BoB and allies. This has nothing to do with the actions of Bob etc, this is just ignorant, biased people and their petty little conspiricy theories.
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Ascend Alt
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nooey How is it not D2's fault? Care to explain? If a nubcake nobody like me can figure out how to keep a Titan safe, why couldn't an alliance of thousands? Sure hindsight is 20/20 and I never thought of this on my own until post-event.
LMAO, way to answer your own question
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Atreus Minmatarius
Fatalix Inc. Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 17/02/2007 17:29:25
Originally by: Audri Fisher
People on here are idiots, and sheep. They will believe ANYTHING that reflects badly on BoB and allies. This has nothing to do with the actions of Bob etc, this is just ignorant, biased people and their petty little conspiricy theories.
Oh... you mean that thing that CCP admited to?
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Korthan
Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:32:00 -
[44]
I honestly find all this "Bob haxploits with Dev/ISD/blah blah blah powers" hilarious when the simple fact of the matter is that D2 lost their Titan to BOB; i don't see how much more complicated it can get unless I'm just that dumb or blind.
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Mextor
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Fabian Amrhein
Originally by: Nooey stuff
oh man : ) why you dont post with your BOB main ? i hate this bobalt posts ... ; )
First, None of us in Exuro Mortis are BoB alts
Originally by: joshua cane exuro mortis is know in all universe = bob alt corp
Second, was BoB helping us kick your ass all over Curse a few months back when we moved out there for a bit. Full Stats
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Nooey
Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ascend Alt LMAO, way to answer your own question
How does the fact that I'm one person, not tasked with the responsibility of keeping a Titan safe, and hence didn't think about these things prior to their happening, in any answer that question?
Of course I only thought of it post-event, what do you expect? Why would I sit here brainstorming ways to keep a Titan safe when...
I don't own a Titan. I'm not responsible for anyone who does. (If you make the awfully dangerous assumption of course, that I'm not a BoB alt)
What exactly are you trying to say here? Do you realise that your reply actually implies an admittance on your behalf that D2 only realised these facts in hindsight?
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Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:41:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Boliknar on 17/02/2007 17:38:32
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Laura Baretta It is in game so it is legit.
To add to this so ANYTHING in game is legit. So its legit to logoff then logon another toon on the same account so your ship disappears even agressed hell its not an exploit its ingame right. Its ok to find a broken complex and farm it so stfu about what to think RA did because it was in game right? Next time think before ya post something so silly.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nooey
Think about Istvaan ShogaatsuÆs heist for one. That is an epic story, truly amazing.
Actually, it was largely Digitalcommunist's heist as far as planning and mechanics were concerned. Now you've got the same person chiefly responsible for that whole shebang pretty much playing bob's spymaster. As detailed by kugutsumen, digitalcommunist was in charge of a plan to infiltrate d2 with a group of purchased alts, which wouldn't be a first for him either.
the lot of it is sort of amusing if you think about it.
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:43:00 -
[49]
The game mechanics aren't broken. What is broken is alliances who give titans/moms to people with most sp/isk instead of actual skills.
Oh and these forums are so broken too . -----
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker At this time I am more disgusted by the player base then with the dev to be honest!
QFT!! |
Mss Alt
Gallente The Alt Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:56:00 -
[50]
Maybe there are still people that consider EVE only a game as it should be considered. Spend lots of time to ensure that nobody uses crappy game mechanics to kill my ship totally sucks.
And people who use crappy game mechanics are LAME. Doesn't matter if they are RA/GOON/D2/BOB etc.
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BossNova
Guiding Star Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:59:00 -
[51]
What a bunch of sad, lonesome bandwagoning whiners. I like how none of them bother to respond to logical arguments and keep saying the most retarded stuff.
For example, respond to the nanophoon argument, paraphrased thusly:
Agression timer is being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention. Haxploit. Thus, Nanophoons being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention is also a haxploit.
If you also believe that D2 should get their titan back, you should believe anyone who's lost his ship to a nanophoon should get his ship back.
Now, if you don't respond to this, I will repost my message.
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Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: NightmareX
Nope it's not, when a freighter try to log off while he's still cloaked at the gate, then he KNOWS that he is going to be attacked, and therefor try to log off to save his ship.
The thing with the titan is something totally different, because he logged off while he was sure he was safe and no enemier around him then. And the titan pilot had to log because of rl stuffs, and not because he knows he was about to get attacked.
So therefor, you are still wrong dude
No matter how much you like to ride on that freighter example, There are tools to prevent this from happening, your pilot turned them knowingly OFF. He died. To debat whether its working as intended or if it has a sideeffect is pointless. All shades of logging with aggression were and have been covered months or years before. That the pilot was stupid enough to log without thinking about spies or atleast INSIDE the pos field really tells everything there needs to be told.
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other mickey
Gallente Galaxy Punks Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:02:00 -
[53]
Edited by: other mickey on 17/02/2007 18:00:37 People should not need to spend 20+ minutes just making sure they can log off to go and enjoy REAL LIFE. This is just a game.
1. The mechanics should allow one to log off safely when they wish to stop playing the game without spending 20 minutes to do so.
2. Currently, there is such a mechanic. When u log your ship disappears in space.
3. To prevent abuse of this mechanic, another has been introduced so that if u log mid-combat, your ship stays in space for 15 minutes allowing your enemies to probe it and kill it.
4. However, since the only way to log-off a mom/titan is to log in space, you now need to spend 20+ minutes trying to make sure you can log-off safely to go back to the real world without wasting all the time and money spent on enjoying your game.
So, where are we? Back to step one 1 guess. Not because the game is flawed, well it is, but only because some players will stop at nothing to win, even if it means abusing game mechanics to do so.
But in the end, Bob are just playing the current state of the game. People in Eve log-off to avoid combat. Bob counter this by only fighting players that are logged off. Genius!
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Lorn Yeager
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:04:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Eamz The aggression timer was not implemented to be abused in this way, hence bob exploited the aggression timer to achieve something that was not intended to be possible when the timer was introduced. If it isnt exploiting, i dont know what is.
If that is the case, I have a fleet megathron I'd like to get back as well.
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: other mickey Edited by: other mickey on 17/02/2007 18:00:37 People should not need to spend 20+ minutes just making sure they can log off to go and enjoy REAL LIFE. This is just a game.
When you posess something thats taken several months for several hundred or even thousand people to produce it is no longer "just a game". Therefore you must have some responsibility and make some sacrifices, or if you can't, maybe you shouldnt be in that titan? -----
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker At this time I am more disgusted by the player base then with the dev to be honest!
QFT!! |
Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:08:00 -
[56]
Originally by: BossNova What a bunch of sad, lonesome bandwagoning whiners. I like how none of them bother to respond to logical arguments and keep saying the most retarded stuff.
For example, respond to the nanophoon argument, paraphrased thusly:
Agression timer is being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention. Haxploit. Thus, Nanophoons being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention is also a haxploit.
If you also believe that D2 should get their titan back, you should believe anyone who's lost his ship to a nanophoon should get his ship back.
Now, if you don't respond to this, I will repost my message.
Actually Nanophoons are acting just like they (the nanophoons themselves) were designed act. So if you want to try and argue with logic you might just wanna check your arguement first...
MmmKay
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BossNova
Guiding Star Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: other mickey Edited by: other mickey on 17/02/2007 18:00:37 People should not need to spend 20+ minutes just making sure they can log off to go and enjoy REAL LIFE. This is just a game.
1. The mechanics should allow one to log off safely when they wish to stop playing the game without spending 20 minutes to do so.
2. Currently, there is such a mechanic. When u log your ship disappears in space.
3. To prevent abuse of this mechanic, another has been introduced so that if u log mid-combat, your ship stays in space for 15 minutes allowing your enemies to probe it and kill it.
4. However, since the only way to log-off a mom/titan is to log in space, you now need to spend 20+ minutes trying to make sure you can log-off safely to go back to the real world without wasting all the time and money spent on enjoying your game.
So, where are we? Back to step one 1 guess. Not because the game is flawed, well it is, but only because some players will stop at nothing to win, even if it means abusing game mechanics to do so.
But in the end, Bob are just playing the current state of the game. People in Eve log-off to avoid combat. Bob counter this by only fighting players that are logged off. Genius!
People should be able to prevent the loss of their ships by making them move really fast.
1. There should be mechanics in the game to allow this.
2. Currently, there are such mechanics, including nanofibers, MWDs, and inertial stabilizers.
3. Unfortunately, unsavory types abuse these mechanics and create nanophoons.
So, where are we? Some players will stop at nothing to win, even if it means abusing game mechanics to do so.
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BossNova
Guiding Star Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 18:08:10
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: NightmareX
Nope it's not, when a freighter try to log off while he's still cloaked at the gate, then he KNOWS that he is going to be attacked, and therefor try to log off to save his ship.
The thing with the titan is something totally different, because he logged off while he was sure he was safe and no enemier around him then. And the titan pilot had to log because of rl stuffs, and not because he knows he was about to get attacked.
So therefor, you are still wrong dude
No matter how much you like to ride on that freighter example, There are tools to prevent this from happening, your pilot turned them knowingly OFF. He died. To debat whether its working as intended or if it has a sideeffect is pointless. All shades of logging with aggression were and have been covered months or years before. That the pilot was stupid enough to log without thinking about spies or atleast INSIDE the pos field really tells everything there needs to be told.
Well well, friendly fire is still not an enemy agression. The agression system was not meant to be agressed by friends, but by enemies you are fighting. Even when you have an enemy in your corp, you should not be ablr to start a new aggro in ANY ways.
Wrong. Spying and internal backstabbing are part of the game. Sorry I don't have a handy devblog link like I did in the other post re: nanophoons, but I don't think anyone is going to challenge me on this one. It would follow that CCP intends for friendly fire to agress someone.
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Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: BossNova
Originally by: Boliknar
Originally by: BossNova What a bunch of sad, lonesome bandwagoning whiners. I like how none of them bother to respond to logical arguments and keep saying the most retarded stuff.
For example, respond to the nanophoon argument, paraphrased thusly:
Agression timer is being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention. Haxploit. Thus, Nanophoons being used in a different way from that of CCP's intention is also a haxploit.
If you also believe that D2 should get their titan back, you should believe anyone who's lost his ship to a nanophoon should get his ship back.
Now, if you don't respond to this, I will repost my message.
Actually Nanophoons are acting just like they (the nanophoons themselves) were designed act. So if you want to try and argue with logic you might just wanna check your arguement first...
MmmKay
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427
^ We call that "boned" where I come from.
Read your initial arguement you stated that "NANOPHOONS" were not being used by CCPs intentions.
1) CCP never deisgned a Nanophoon its a combination of different mods. so not designed specificaly as a ship. 2) If you leave out the first part that CCP never actually designed the nanophoon and instead focue that is was a player made developement then it is acting exactly like "IT " was designed to do.
Get it now?
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: BossNova
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 18:08:10
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: NightmareX
Nope it's not, when a freighter try to log off while he's still cloaked at the gate, then he KNOWS that he is going to be attacked, and therefor try to log off to save his ship.
The thing with the titan is something totally different, because he logged off while he was sure he was safe and no enemier around him then. And the titan pilot had to log because of rl stuffs, and not because he knows he was about to get attacked.
So therefor, you are still wrong dude
No matter how much you like to ride on that freighter example, There are tools to prevent this from happening, your pilot turned them knowingly OFF. He died. To debat whether its working as intended or if it has a sideeffect is pointless. All shades of logging with aggression were and have been covered months or years before. That the pilot was stupid enough to log without thinking about spies or atleast INSIDE the pos field really tells everything there needs to be told.
Well well, friendly fire is still not an enemy agression. The agression system was not meant to be agressed by friends, but by enemies you are fighting. Even when you have an enemy in your corp, you should not be ablr to start a new aggro in ANY ways.
Wrong. Spying and internal backstabbing are part of the game. Sorry I don't have a handy devblog link like I did in the other post re: nanophoons, but I don't think anyone is going to challenge me on this one. It would follow that CCP intends for friendly fire to agress someone.
Yeah the spying stuff and that are when peoples are online, this is about a player who logged off with an aggro that he shouldn't have had at all.
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
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