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Open Letter to D2/IRON/Razor/Morsus Mihi/RA/Goons/Tau Ceti/IAC/CA

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Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.02.19 06:47:00 - [31] Now lets just hope that FCs actually read the forum ...
Xeliya Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.02.19 06:56:00 - [32] Originally by: Spinnukur Originally by: Iva Soreass Originally by: Noreen I'm going to tell you what we learned first hand in ASCN after fighting BoB for months, we were nicknamed "hobbits", but we managed to keep a pvp force at bay, these are our findings. How long did that war last ? How did you keep them at bay if "ASCN" is no more ? Because ASCN lost there will to fight, they did keep them at bay, the majority of ASCN's players just didn't want to do it anymore. And it will happen again. ----------
Arithon Draedus NQX Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:10:00 - [33] awesome post! Thank you noreen!
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:22:00 - [34] Originally by: Noreen stuff Youve managed to both overestimate and underestimate bob in the same post. Congrats on that. I could see how it might seem like good info to some ppl, but its not. For ppl to take the military advice of ASCN members would still be as unwise at it ever was.
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:26:00 - [35] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Noreen stuff Youve managed to both overestimate and underestimate bob in the same post. Congrats on that. I could see how it might seem like good info to some ppl, but its not. For ppl to take the military advice of ASCN members would still be as unwise at it ever was. ya know she posted that because she's point out some of the things that ASCN did not do right. Your interpretation and assumptions are pretty wrong _______
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Roland 99 Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Noreen stuff Youve managed to both overestimate and underestimate bob in the same post. Congrats on that. I could see how it might seem like good info to some ppl, but its not. For ppl to take the military advice of ASCN members would still be as unwise at it ever was. ya know she posted that because she's point out some of the things that ASCN did not do right. Your interpretation and assumptions are pretty wrong Are they? Cause I'm not making assumptions. This is what I know.
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:32:00 - [37] Edited by: pershphanie on 19/02/2007 07:29:07 For example: Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB cannot HOLD more then 1 system at a time. (they fleet max size is 175) Wrong Originally by: Noreen 2) BoB cannot ATTACK more then 1 system at a time. Wrong Originally by: Noreen 4) BoB slaves only interested in veld and isk, they dont care and would easily turn on BoB if they thought it was in their interest, Make it so. wrong Originally by: Noreen 5) BoB and BoB slaves have a symbian relationship, 1 cannot live without the other. Divide them. Wrong But yall go ahead and find out the hard way. HF making the same mistakes that have been repeated over and over.
Elad Dranoel Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:33:00 - [38] Congrats, you just graduated from the first grade. And you're posting this meaningless info here, why? I know you feel like you're smart since you just learned this, but next time, keep it to yourself kiddo. snip Your signature may not contain any profanity - Kreul Intentions
Chirinako Caldari Legionari Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:51:00 - [39] Edited by: Chirinako on 19/02/2007 07:49:21 Originally by: Raivi Edited by: Raivi on 19/02/2007 05:46:32 Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB cannot HOLD more then 1 system at a time. (they fleet max size is 175) 2) BoB cannot ATTACK more then 1 system at a time. It seems to me that this is going to be the key to the outcome of the war. If BoB can keep up their mad rush from system to system saving the day then they can hold out almost indefinitely. If their opposition can time attacks and POS assaults to occur at the same time then some of those attacks can succeed. BoB as a group is very very good at this, but they can only be in one place at a time. If they can continue using the Titans and fast fleet movement to keep on top of their opponents then they will win, if they start falling behind they lose. If LV fall and Querious is kept under Siege then Bob's ability to defend themselves is weakened. Bob will have Goons and co on their back door while D2 knock on their front door. If Iron/MM/Trium/PURE/whoever else attacking Querious succeeds, that's an extra 250 pilots per night on average that Bob will have to deal with, nevermind the thousands of goons >.> This whole war is a pot of if's though. If this, If that. Bob are doing well so far.
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Matrices Reborn Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 19/02/2007 05:58:15 First decent ASCN analysis by leadership I've seen. Sadly that includes all the time I was fighting in ASCN. You are still fighting in ASCN for all intents and purposes... or PA... that sort of thing anyway... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:58:00 - [41] Originally by: pershphanie rebuttals Purely for my own amusement I thought I would address some of the points you thought were off centre Persh and shed some light onto why they aren't as misguided as it might seem. Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB cannot HOLD more then 1 system at a time. (they fleet max size is 175) This point is dependant on how you read it. It is naively worded but if you don't take it completely at face value there is some merit to it. BoB can field what 200 pilots max? in any one system. Great pvpers as they are they cannot fight two large engagments at once. Its physically impossible. If two of their stations are getting attacked, they have to chose to defend one of them.. they cannot defend both at the same time. Originally by: Noreen 2) BoB cannot ATTACK more then 1 system at a time. Again, the wording is naive but the essence of what is being said is true enough... if sufficient numbers are brought to bear on 2 locations.. BoB has to chose one of them. They are not magicians. Originally by: Noreen 4) BoB slaves only interested in veld and isk, they dont care and would easily turn on BoB if they thought it was in their interest, Make it so. This statement is again simplistic... but.... BoB's pets/tennants have limited stamina. They are not geared up to fight a protracted war involving capital ships and POS warfare, or else they would have long found their own home to live in. Their role is to support the main fleets which belong to BoB. If the coaltion can achieve some decent successes.. there will be a time when the rank and file of the tennant alliances ask themselves if fighting BoB's war is something they want to expend all their efforts on. Originally by: Noreen 5) BoB and BoB slaves have a symbian relationship, 1 cannot live without the other. Divide them. Again.. simplistic.. but not too far off the mark. BoB as the landlord of its tennants has had a direct or indirect effect on the way these alliances have been evolving over time. Standings, modus operandi etc.. etc.. have all been influenced by BoB. If you erode the relationship between BoB and their tennants, the very type of existance they have been leading will come into question. Once that happens, its not large step for the tennants to decide that their relationship with BoB is counter productive. Everybody has a price.... or a limit to the price they are willing to pay to keep a non-productive relationship alive. The difficult thing for the coalition to achieve IMO is cohesiveness... can they keep the myriad of alliances rallied against BoB, focused? They are going to suffer large casualties.. maybe even another couple of Titans and maybe up to 30 dreads before BoB starts to break. And my personal opinion is that the anti-BoB sentiment is so strong that it could keep the coalition together. It is the first time that I have seen such sentiment sweep the entire community. Infact this war could probably be dubbed the EMO-wars, nothing makes people log on more than feeling very strongly about something. And there is a lot of strong feelings surrounding this conflict.
Desiderious Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:01:00 - [42] Edited by: Desiderious on 19/02/2007 07:57:51 ----------------------------- Oink ^OO^ Your sig is too large. Please resize it so that it fits within 400x120. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
TrippyX Caldari The Syndicate Inc INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:30:00 - [43] Originally by: Iva Soreass Originally by: Noreen I'm going to tell you what we learned first hand in ASCN after fighting BoB for months, we were nicknamed "hobbits", but we managed to keep a pvp force at bay, these are our findings. How long did that war last ? About 3-4 months, depending on what a person qualifies as the "end of war" point. As for things said by OP, they're true. ____________________ I ♥ [TSYND]
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:36:00 - [44] I don't think you believe everything youve posted here, but ill play along :p Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB cannot HOLD more then 1 system at a time. (they fleet max size is 175) This point is dependant on how you read it. It is naively worded but if you don't take it completely at face value there is some merit to it. BoB can field what 200 pilots max? in any one system. Great pvpers as they are they cannot fight two large engagments at once. Its physically impossible. If two of their stations are getting attacked, they have to chose to defend one of them.. they cannot defend both at the same time. You over estimate the power of the blob. When being sieged # of pilots has alot less value than ppl give it. quality + tactics > numbers. And almost all bob members have atleast two accounts with a pvp character on each. Don't think they can defend multiple systems at once? I think we will find out soon enough. Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Noreen 4) BoB slaves only interested in veld and isk, they dont care and would easily turn on BoB if they thought it was in their interest, Make it so. This statement is again simplistic... but.... BoB's pets/tennants have limited stamina. They are not geared up to fight a protracted war involving capital ships and POS warfare, or else they would have long found their own home to live in. Their role is to support the main fleets which belong to BoB. If the coaltion can achieve some decent successes.. there will be a time when the rank and file of the tennant alliances ask themselves if fighting BoB's war is something they want to expend all their efforts on. BoB allies have the same thing that bob members have that allows them to hold out longer than anyone else on a battlefield. Faith that the ppl above them know what they are doing and will win. And rightfully so. Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Noreen 5) BoB and BoB slaves have a symbian relationship, 1 cannot live without the other. Divide them. Again.. simplistic.. but not too far off the mark. BoB as the landlord of its tennants has had a direct or indirect effect on the way these alliances have been evolving over time. Standings, modus operandi etc.. etc.. have all been influenced by BoB. If you erode the relationship between BoB and their tennants, the very type of existance they have been leading will come into question. Once that happens, its not large step for the tennants to decide that their relationship with BoB is counter productive. Everybody has a price.... or a limit to the price they are willing to pay to keep a non-productive relationship alive. But still. The assumption that bob somehow needs its residents/pets/slaves/***es/whatever is completely false. The whole "hit them in the pocketbook idea is totally moronic. It's been tried over and over. But any half way decent alliance of vets cant be killed by stopping their pets. That only works with noob alliances. Originally by:** Nez Perces The difficult thing for the coalition to achieve IMO is cohesiveness... can they keep the myriad of alliances rallied against BoB, focused? They are going to suffer large casualties.. maybe even another couple of Titans and maybe up to 30 dreads before BoB starts to break. IMO this coalition is a house of cards. There are just too many things out there that can make it fall apart. Originally by: Nez Perces And my personal opinion is that the anti-BoB sentiment is so strong that it could keep the coalition together. It is the first time that I have seen such sentiment sweep the entire community. If wars could be won by intentions bob would lose. But it takes actually ppl to win it. The only ppl i think have it in them to stick it out on the anti bob side are CA. Thats not enough.
Alais Wiccanfae Gallente Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:40:00 - [45] Edited by: Alais Wiccanfae on 19/02/2007 08:36:58 Thankyou for that post, for someone who doesn't pretend to have been there and done that, nor wants to be involved in the fleet/alliance control aspects of the game that was an enlightening post.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:41:00 - [46] Isn't it amazing how everyone on both sides of this war have totally opposite views of every single issue? Surely we are not biased?
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Shin Ra Isn't it amazing how everyone on both sides of this war have totally opposite views of every single issue? Surely we are not biased? impossible. leave my ***** signature alone ***********
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Noreen 3) GANK their pets to hell, they will provide you with enough loot 4) BoB slaves only interested in veld and isk, they dont care and would easily turn on BoB if they thought it was in their interest, Make it so. 5) BoB and BoB slaves have a symbian relationship, 1 cannot live without the other. Divide them. Sounds like a plan to me :) Something even us little corps can do. Thanks!! *When you absolutly NEED to know...*
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:49:00 - [49] Excellent post Noreen, even better for **ing off the sad alt brigade so well, n1 tickety tickety tock Quote:** Whats becoming so obvious these days, is, in this game it's not what you know, it's who you know, how sad
Athelas Loraiel Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:51:00 - [50] Good work, hope ppl read this without smallsouled alt comments. Maybe a good thing would be to post officialy all their T2 POSes on forums? That'd be a blast, you know we do have some info. -------------- On the lookout for /restricted word that means ppl who work on the game/ in BOD disguise. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] -Oiri Yusko
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:57:00 - [51] Edited by: Nez Perces on 19/02/2007 08:55:58 Originally by: pershphanie Don't think they can defend multiple systems at once? I think we will find out soon enough. After reading your replies, I believe the main disagreement we have is this one. Lets say BoB pilots have 2 pvp accounts each. Do they have a computer for each account too? The way the servers are behaving in large engagments, is it really possible to run two accounts on the same PC fighting in different systems? Even if it was possible such a level of exertion has a limited timeframe. Large fleet battles can be quite tireing in RL. Fighting 2 of them at the same time even more so. And we are only talking of 2 fronts.. what happens if BoB find that there are three concerted attacks ocurring simultaneously.... I can just about belive that all BoB pilots have 2 pvp accounts... but three? With the sheer numbers rallied against them... it is only a question of time before BoB pilots start to feel the pressure on even their RL's. OFC you may be right in saying that the coalition is a house of cards.. if that is the case, this time next week we will start to see the signs of it falling apart. However, my instinct tells me that this time..... they might just go all the way.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:59:00 - [52] I can't wait to dock again in NOL under a new corporation. This post gave me some ideas. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
RichThugster Gallente 0riginal Pirate Material	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:00:00 - [53] if you know all that stuff, why didnt you kill BOB? I think theres one and only one person in old ASCN that the Choo-Choo Train should listen to, and thats CYVOK, other than that, you guys get back to mining for your new outpost
Minikrimi Extreme Zephyr Manufacturing Group SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:11:00 - [54] I can't say that all of this is good advice, because honestly I don't know how to separate the germ from the chaff when it comes to grand strategy in Eve. I keep being told that I make a much better mayor than a general. But for those who dismiss someone because their alliance lost a major war, there is something that was repeated over and over again at my university: We learn the most, when we fail. Learn from the mistakes of others, because it is much cheaper than failing yourself. I would argue that there are different circumstances this time around, as it is not ASCN alone but a massive coalition against BoB. Although at first I was really ticked that so many had hopped on the bandwagon, I have come to realize (after plumbing the past threads here) that it is exactly what we've been building up towards. BoB is being given a challenge. They have the enemy that they have been looking for. The circumstances are crappy, I don't doubt that they EVER wanted it to be over something like this. They wanted it to be over them being a-holes and so much better that the universe caught fire around them. Remember, they started out as the anti-alliance. Back on track-- Don't dismiss the words of the OP because of their source, those who fought BoB and lost I'm sure have valuable lessons to teach us. If they are bad advice overall, dismiss it on that basis, but guidance oh what not to do comes best from those who already tried it. Just my viewpoint.
Octaviun Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:18:00 - [55] So these "Tactics" were suppose to be the sure way of beating BoB? How come ASCN didn't use this? They just died in a fire. Pretty sure there Max fleets arn't 175, maybe its that small because they are on other fronts aswell? and even if there fleets are so small, theres a Battle that took place today in Y-2 clearly they were outnumbered and they still made it on top _________________________________________________
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:18:00 - [56] Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme But for those who dismiss someone because their alliance lost a major war, there is something that was repeated over and over again at my university: We learn the most, when we fail. Learn from the mistakes of others, because it is much cheaper than failing yourself. I'm dismissing the OP because his alliance failed after "fighting" a war based on these same assumptions.
Dragutinovic Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:23:00 - [57] Common sense makes you win , not teh current blind hate and anger . _____________ Im back !
s4mp3r0r ZiTek Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:29:00 - [58] another tip, have your forumwarriors check internet to find yet another BoD exploit not yet deemed exploit.. Here we go : Simple way to destroy an enemy capital fleet without ever seeing them: 1) Wait for hostile fleet to engage your POS with lots of guns and warp disruptor batteries. 2) Jump as many ships into the system as fast as you can 3) Hostile fleet will lag while the POS keeps attacking them with no lag 4) If the node dies and the capitals log back in, they will lag until they are dead, with not modules active.
Helina Malinos Caldari Euro Traders	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:42:00 - [59] Originally by: s4mp3r0r another tip, have your forumwarriors check internet to find yet another BoD exploit not yet deemed exploit.. Here we go : Simple way to destroy an enemy capital fleet without ever seeing them: 1) Wait for hostile fleet to engage your POS with lots of guns and warp disruptor batteries. 2) Jump as many ships into the system as fast as you can 3) Hostile fleet will lag while the POS keeps attacking them with no lag 4) If the node dies and the capitals log back in, they will lag until they are dead, with not modules active. I hope you get banned for advertising exploits and forcing node crashes. REMEMBER FOLKS ITS SAID HERE THAT POS ENCOURAGE EXPLOITS!
Lyer THE BLUE FLAG	Posted - 2007.02.19 09:50:00 - [60] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme But for those who dismiss someone because their alliance lost a major war, there is something that was repeated over and over again at my university: We learn the most, when we fail. Learn from the mistakes of others, because it is much cheaper than failing yourself. I'm dismissing the OP because his alliance failed after "fighting" a war based on these same assumptions. You just dont get it do you.... The advice posted in the OP is through HINDSIGHT, A glorious thing that allows people to look back see what happened, think what they SHOULD have done, learn from it and hopefully not do it again. Only this time as ASCN does not exisit the lessons learned are being passed on to others.

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