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Open Letter to D2/IRON/Razor/Morsus Mihi/RA/Goons/Tau Ceti/IAC/CA

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Manfred Sideous Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:01:00 - [61] Things not going as expected? Keep feeding the propaganda
Minikrimi Extreme Zephyr Manufacturing Group SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:28:00 - [62] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme But for those who dismiss someone because their alliance lost a major war, there is something that was repeated over and over again at my university: We learn the most, when we fail. Learn from the mistakes of others, because it is much cheaper than failing yourself. I'm dismissing the OP because his alliance failed after "fighting" a war based on these same assumptions. Right, so the OP posted old, failed tactics instead of the lessons learned? I had a friend who dropped Eve-O entirely because of some of the things listed here, such as constant berating, abusive evemails, non-acknowledgement in his corp about the few that actually did something, being left idling for an hour after a pvp op was supposed to start and then yelled at because he had to log, stuff like that. Too bad, because he was the one who encouraged me to return to Eve. So I would say that at least some of these lessons are, in fact, lessons learned rather than failed concepts. Not everyone keeps trying the same failed tactics, and sometimes tactics fail because of poor leadership rather than simply poor conception. But my contribution to pewpew comes mostly in the grunt level, grand strategy is something I don't do well at. I merely know not to chuck the voice of experience because of failure. Often those who have failed have learned from thier mistakes. That's all I'm saying. Diss the advice as poor because it is poor, not because the source lost. Such a person could, in fact, be considered a valuable consultant.
Squirl	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Helina Malinos Originally by: s4mp3r0r another tip, have your forumwarriors check internet to find yet another BoD exploit not yet deemed exploit.. Here we go : Simple way to destroy an enemy capital fleet without ever seeing them: 1) Wait for hostile fleet to engage your POS with lots of guns and warp disruptor batteries. 2) Jump as many ships into the system as fast as you can 3) Hostile fleet will lag while the POS keeps attacking them with no lag 4) If the node dies and the capitals log back in, they will lag until they are dead, with not modules active. I hope you get banned for advertising exploits and forcing node crashes. REMEMBER FOLKS ITS SAID HERE THAT POS ENCOURAGE EXPLOITS! These are tricks BoD used againts POS, you muppet
The Anointed Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:33:00 - [64] Some of the points in the OP are at least a little interesting, maybe not spot on, but heading in the right direction. There are a few things that in my opinion have either not been thought of, or were a little biased; 1) The Alliances affiliated but not in BoB. Everyone assumes they are interested in isk. What if they are interested in learning? Perhaps they want to fight in order to gain the respect of what has been for years the pvp force that everyone talks about, sometimes with envy? Maybe they are hoping for continued relations with BoB win or loose? 2)LV in the south. Now I think as far as the end of LV, I think that you will either see it happen overnight, because of internal affairs, or you wont see it happen unless BoB folds as well. BoB are unlikely to take their only ally and say 'You loose your space and we wont want to know you!' They are more likley to accomodate LV regardless of where or how, would you leave them out to dry? That then changes the whole situation. The points about fleet size and attacking defending systems then becomes less valid, but still troublesome when you look at the number of attackers. 3) Back to the affiliatd alliances, I would say that the 1 can not live without the other is slightly true, the affiliated alliances wont be able to field a good defence without BoB, but BoB will still be the same force, with negligible affect if all of their affiliates were wiped out over night. The only difference is the coallition will be focused in attacking fewer systems. This may seem like an overly friendly post, but I always have a habbit of playing devils advocate. The main things I think BoB will struggle to deal with will be when the buffer space they have to play with is eroded and the full number that the coalition can field becomes harder to deal with. The whole situation is fantastic from many points of view and to be honest its what the game has needed. BoB always said 'bring it' and are probably content with what is going on. The only thing the community in my opinion needs to keep in mind is that you will not get a surrender out of the BoB corps, they wont back down and they need to be killed, killed and killed again, so they never get back to what they were. It will no doubt be bloody, and to some extend boring as hell, but its certainly within reach. On an end note, the use of spying is something everyone needs to deal with, its a semi realistic part of the game, and it takes time and effort for it to pay off properly, so if you invest that time/effort, then so be it. The use of misinformation can be just as effective. **These are my own personal views and are based on being bored whilst at Uni, and do not represent my corp/alliance/hamster or the voices in my head**
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:42:00 - [65] He with an effective capital fleet in the end wins.
Aira Phlux Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:49:00 - [66] Originally by: Noreen 4) BoB slaves only interested in veld and isk, they dont care and would easily turn on BoB if they thought it was in their interest, Make it so. lol yeah open to the highest veld bidder Nothing like bitter comments from wars past to loose what dignity you had
pershphanie The Ancient Race	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:52:00 - [67] Edited by: pershphanie on 19/02/2007 10:53:32 Originally by: Dragutinovic Common sense makes you win , not teh current blind hate and anger . wise words. Hate can make ppl show up to the fight. It can not however win the fight. The leaders of the antibob side can not think about hating bob when trying to defeat them. RA can handle this maybe even D2, but I don't think the rest can. However so far it seems everyone is distracted by debating whether or not bob is exploiting every step of the way. That's not going to help one bit.
Coasterbrian Loss of Sanity	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:00:00 - [68] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan He with an effective capital fleet in the end wins. Indeed. ---------- Loss of Sanity.
Aakron Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:05:00 - [69] Thanks to these shocking revelations BoB must indeed be in trouble now! ---
Malkavian Spirit Minmatar Instant Travel Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:11:00 - [70] Heres a simple cold hard fact, if you want to beat bob attack it from inside. Nothing kills an alliance faster then low morale and fighting between the corps and members, bob has spys within their alliance as well use them properly if you know what I mean. I know for a fact that some corps in bob have hard times keeping morale up or they arent even trying and are just taking their members for granted so use that to your advantage. GL!
Blue Stratos Amarr BOOM - Gotcha	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:12:00 - [71] Im sorry but.... if your so full of good advice Why is ASCN DEAD? Look, your a siore loser, we get this, you don't like bob, who does? I do, i think that all 0.0 space should be ruled by 1 alliance, the reason u hate bob is simple ASCN where arragont, stupid and made out they where god, u then went up agaisnt bob who also made out they where god, turns out, u where wrong and bob where right Seriously, ur a dead corp froma dead alliance, when u actually have an impact on this conflict, ill listen, till then, stop posting
Iva Soreass FireStar Inc Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Spinnukur Because ASCN lost there will to fight, they did keep them at bay, the majority of ASCN's players just didn't want to do it anymore. Ok, So they "Didn't" keep them at bay then did they. ----------------------------------------------- http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4317/creditcard22es4.jpg Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit
Goberth Ludwig The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:25:00 - [73] OP is wrong, and not for the reasons persh typed: Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB only engages when they think they have an advantage to win, forget your pride and regroup, ONLY fight on your terms, forgot about honor, its about winning, your enemy doesnt care, neither should you, your responsibility if to keep your fleet alive and complete your objective. 4) DONT bore your fleet, DONT wait by POS, pew pew is what keeps your fleet alive and numbers up, lack of it only makes station jokeys and game quitters. If you want to fight on your terms, people WILL get bored. Patience is the price to pay to win, so 1) and 4) go against each other - but thats something most ascn members never accepted. Originally by: Noreen THIS PART IS WHAT WORKS AGAINST BOB 1) BoB cannot HOLD more then 1 system at a time. (they fleet max size is 175) 2) BoB cannot ATTACK more then 1 system at a time. True, they cannnot - but that wont kill them. Stations lost dont mean anything when they were lost without a fight. If they were reduced to npc stations but killed 9 dreads every night they would eventually get one station back then two then their whole space just like RA did. Winning fights, and morale, is all that matters and you dont need to be everywhere for that. Originally by: Noreen 3) GANK their pets to hell, they will provide you with enough loot 100% effing wrong. Ganking their pets is useless. Either you take their stations and force them on your side/jita by killing their morale or you are just wasting time. Nobody cares about a bunch of people getting ganked at belts if anything thats their fault for not watching local. Thinking you can kill the economy of a med sized alliance by just jumping around their belts is daydreaming, focus on forming fleets tbh. Originally by: Noreen 5) BoB and BoB slaves have a symbian relationship, 1 cannot live without the other. Divide them. False, bob is rich enough to run without the pets, thats for sure. Most vet pvpers are self sufficient anyway. People fighting bob should first of all acknowledge the fact they are very good at what they do despite the totally disgracefull attitude, and second find a reason why a group of player thats been playing together with great success for nearly 3 years should disband, split up or give up and try to work towards making that happen. Good luck =) - Gob
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:27:00 - [74] Originally by: Dragutinovic Common sense makes you win , not teh current blind hate and anger . But that's only side effect of the forums where you have alts from both sides trying to stir. Nothing much to pay attention to because it certainly is not the same way ingame.
thoradh AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:45:00 - [75] Originally by: Noreen Superb stuff! Excellent Noreen, as a high level strategy this is exactly whats been going on, needs to go on, then the final cleansing of the galaxy is merely a matter of time Thank'e m'lady > > Noli illegitimi carborundum! >
S'Beech Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Squirl Originally by: Helina Malinos Originally by: s4mp3r0r another tip, have your forumwarriors check internet to find yet another BoD exploit not yet deemed exploit.. Here we go : Simple way to destroy an enemy capital fleet without ever seeing them: 1) Wait for hostile fleet to engage your POS with lots of guns and warp disruptor batteries. 2) Jump as many ships into the system as fast as you can 3) Hostile fleet will lag while the POS keeps attacking them with no lag 4) If the node dies and the capitals log back in, they will lag until they are dead, with not modules active. I hope you get banned for advertising exploits and forcing node crashes. REMEMBER FOLKS ITS SAID HERE THAT POS ENCOURAGE EXPLOITS! These are tricks BoD used againts POS, you muppet Ignore her.She was arguing the other day that AAA are ASCN alts!
Orlando Gardner Amarr The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:16:00 - [77] The OP's post is mainly about misdirection. it has a lot of common sense truth in it but some bad advice on tactics. BoD are using a classic propoganda technique i eat tinfoil for breakfast.
Dragutinovic Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:19:00 - [78] Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Dragutinovic Common sense makes you win , not teh current blind hate and anger . But that's only side effect of the forums where you have alts from both sides trying to stir. Nothing much to pay attention to because it certainly is not the same way ingame. I know and im sure the vets from GNW do understand what i mean ;) _____________ Im back !
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:29:00 - [79] Get over it ASCN died, because they could not stand the test of times Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig OP is wrong, and not for the reasons persh typed: Originally by: Noreen 1) BoB only engages when they think they have an advantage to win, forget your pride and regroup, ONLY fight on your terms, forgot about honor, its about winning, your enemy doesnt care, neither should you, your responsibility if to keep your fleet alive and complete your objective. 4) DONT bore your fleet, DONT wait by POS, pew pew is what keeps your fleet alive and numbers up, lack of it only makes station jokeys and game quitters. If you want to fight on your terms, people WILL get bored. Patience is the price to pay to win, so 1) and 4) go against each other - but thats something most ascn members never accepted. lo Gobbins I think that what the OP meant is that, if you do not have the numbers/ships to engage a BoB fleet then DONT FF'ING ENGAGE it, swap out to different ship types and go roaming and try to get what kills you can on BoB & pals, keep your fleet together, keep it getting kills and having fun. Remember that killing the other sides fun factor is 90% of the battle, if you stop giving BoB easy kills and capital kills and instead just send lots of gangs around annoying them UNTIL you are ready to deploy the big guns then you will find it much for effective than throwing away 20 BS to kill 1. DO NOT go suiciding your fleet just because people are a bit bored, or because you want BoB to respect you (they wont they will just **** themselves laughing at you). If its not going to happen then bite the bullet, say so and get people to go do something else or play an alt, dont have people sat at a POS for 3+ hours because although it would be great if they would its just not realitic to expect it from any but the hardcore (half of whom are probably bob alts anyway ). The number of times we put ourselves into the situation where the FC felt pressured by whining fleet members to "do something" that they ended up taking chances and getting the whole thing killed. As for all the people saying "well if this is such good advice how come you all got killed" well it was because we didnt follow this advice Not saying I agree with it all but there is a lot of sense in it and if we had followed 50% of this we would have done better (though probably still lost).
hybridundertaker Amarr Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Noreen I'm going to tell you what we learned first hand in ASCN after fighting BoB for months, we were nicknamed "hobbits", but we managed to keep a pvp force at bay, these are our findings. i thought the war lasted rathger week or 2 ... Is it a virtue to manage to keep pvp forces ''at bay''? I had a feeling gunships are made to be undocked, im a noob so correct me if im wrong
Red Crown	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:22:00 - [82] She speaks the truth folks. To the Coalition - read The Art of War. I'm not joking. The way this war works, you can fight on your terms. The northern alliance has to chip away Xelas / FIX/ Etc, its true they are a symbiotic relationship. Knocking out them is like knocking a chair out from under someone. If they are neutralized (through combat OR diplomacy), BoB loses a major source of income and materials. I'd also highly recommend that for now, the southerners concentrate on LV only. LV is surrounded. LV cannot last forever. With LV and their pet alliances down, the clock begins ticking. The biggest BoB fleet nowadays totals around 225. Its also 100% true BoB cannot hold or attack 2 systems at once. Yesterday Goons were writing graffiti on the walls of the NOL-M9 station while BoB was fighting D2. This war can be easily won. We just need the leadership to wise up a bit.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:56:00 - [83] Originally by: thoradh Originally by: Noreen Superb stuff! Excellent Noreen, as a high level strategy this is exactly whats been going on, needs to go on, then the final cleansing of the galaxy is merely a matter of time Thank'e m'lady If you think that post outlines high level strategy then you probably think Blue Peter discusses politics
thoth foc Elcyion Lacar	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:53:00 - [84] Originally by: Fitz Chivalry (they wont they will just **** themselves laughing at you).. tbh i dont think this is restricted to BOB members.. the whole coalition just come across as amateur. Lots of bitter failures that think they have suddenly got the inspirational key to the holy grail of defeating BOB.. Most of which where thought of centuries ago, nvm being new to eve.. Can any of the allies look at each other and say that the alliance isnt there simply because they hope more numbers will work this time, where their own groups failed b4? While many like to claim metagaming etc as their reason they hate BOB, they are all allied directly, if not officially with groups that have done the same or worse. Another reason i've heard is they dont like BOB's "win at all cost" attitude.. Well isnt that why the coalition exists? To beat BOB no matter who that have to ally with? to have to go against your own natures in an effort to beat an enemy.. well isnt that win at all costs? Examples: The goons claim a culture of "putting their fingers in ppl's eyes" yet, infact they have to be nice to the majority of 0.0 eve The Old CA was a hugh influence ingame, the new version? a minor partner in the coalition.. D2 complain about BOB's spies, yet how many spies are their allies using? What they actually hate is they simply arent good enough alone, for me i find that hilairious. To hate someone else so intently because of their own failings, is well, a credit to them tbh.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) xATUK (.5.) xDICE (BOB)
niroshido Caldari Soldiers Of Zahaar	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:28:00 - [85] The Art of war is suprize let thy enemy no little and i shall be victorious idea1: when you have a fleet devide the fleet up and send one part of the fleet a different route to lead to the destination, if you can disguise most of your fleet the enemy will not know whats happening and make fighting u less predictable this tactic is known as a pincer movement, by getting 1 part of your force to approach there flank whilst the other heads in direct (i.e. your best tankers , or a twin pronged attack decapitation: the complete cutoff of a route by perma bubble, this is expencive and requires a gate patrol, but it will limit travel thus decapitating enemy movements tri star strikes: the usage of a combined fleet, interception, heavy damage and cap fleets, the interception squad is to act like scout and to determine hostile powers within the area, after decyphering the position of the enemy away from a POS, the heavy damage fleet moves in to lock down the route, whilst the interception team harrasses hostile groupings, then the cap fleet is jumped into position to take the POS down several systems away cloak and dagger: the usage of stealth bombers and recons only, sent in small squads to kill indivuals who are attempting to make isk quad assault: Used to completely eradicate the enemy, step 1: find a POS or group of POS's 10+ jumps away from a hostile fleet, send in cap fleet step 2: second cap fleet attack another set several jump in opposite direction step 3: set up camps half way between each POS system being striked step 4: send in alpha strike forces to take stragglers approaching vecinity or trying to group up these are qwazy ideas and im bored
Dragutinovic Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:28:00 - [86] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Fitz Chivalry (they wont they will just **** themselves laughing at you).. . TBH for most its actually the favorism towards BoB that makes them very unliked and teh way CCP delt with recent events made it only worse . In fact i dont dislike BoB as a whole but i do dislike a very minor few of them and the unbiased threatment of CCP . _____________ Im back !
Elayne Atreus	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:34:00 - [87] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Fitz Chivalry (they wont they will just **** themselves laughing at you).. tbh i dont think this is restricted to BOB members.. the whole coalition just come across as amateur. Lots of bitter failures that think they have suddenly got the inspirational key to the holy grail of defeating BOB.. Most of which where thought of centuries ago, nvm being new to eve.. -------------------> <----------------------------------------------- What they actually hate is they simply arent good enough alone, for me i find that hilairious. To hate someone else so intently because of their own failings, is well, a credit to them tbh.. It's not about honour or uberness or 'professionalism' or hatred or resentment. It's about the last chance to put down an inevitable threat that can't be co-existed with, can't be negotiated with, can't be trusted, that WILL come knocking some day. It's about hanging together or hanging seperately BoB's uberness only matters to them, On this side, we don't admire them. We just want them gone. And we will do it with weight of numbers because numbers work. And we won't care that they find this in some way unfair because they will be gone, that is our aim and we don't care about their aims We want them gone.
liquidism Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:23:00 - [88] good writeup exept the part about forum whoring. wars are not fought with endless and boring discussions, chest beating and alike. only sense is to boost the morale of your guys if they should suffer a lack of it. cheers //liq
Xances	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:33:00 - [89] Edited by: Xances on 19/02/2007 17:29:32
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:40:00 - [90] Originally by: thoth foc Can any of the allies look at each other and say that the alliance isnt there simply because they hope more numbers will work this time, where their own groups failed b4? While many like to claim metagaming etc as their reason they hate BOB, they are all allied directly, if not officially with groups that have done the same or worse. Because we know it is now or never. Pretty much 99% of the coalition knows this, and we know that if we do not defeat bob here and now we'll never get another chance, and sooner or later they'll come knocking on our doorsteps. The entire north was united by their mutual dislike of bob(despite comments about the NAP train), and now old enemies are working together. I think you vastly underestimate our resolve.

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