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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Dadunar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
4
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Posted - 2016.05.24 23:12:37 -
[121] - Quote
Now if only data sites were worth doing. |
Excellent CEO
Bold and Beautiful
0
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Posted - 2016.05.25 15:43:33 -
[122] - Quote
Dadunar wrote:Now if only data sites were worth doing.
This so much. Also why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3?
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Darkwing Fiftytwo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.05.27 13:21:22 -
[123] - Quote
Stats look lacklustre on the released items. If they are going to be rare you might as well make them as powerful as a T1 & T2 regular analyzer but obviously you can hack both sites.
Then they will garner a lot more value and be "rare" and valued.
Agreed until data sites are lucrative again they will just be ignored. |
Slarti bartslower
Omniclan
0
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Posted - 2016.06.01 03:19:36 -
[124] - Quote
"GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range6000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence 40 Virus Strength30 Virus Utility Element Slots1 Tech Level2 CPU usage30
To manufacture these modules, you will require the following:
GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000"
Performance wise... Sacrifice 2 virus utility slots and 20 virus coherence for an extra mid slot on a ship that you are using for exploration.
Manufacture... Loving the 5 day moving average for the price of the high-tech trade goods you have listed. Does anything else out there require 1,000 units of high-tech goods?
I admire the notion, but this item has far to little upside and you have built it on the back of a (previously) low volume trade good. Result: as is, these BPCs will likely never get built. They'll be fun to watch in contract auctions for a day or two though.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2570
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Posted - 2016.06.01 04:23:53 -
[125] - Quote
I got one of the BPC's this evening, but I don't see the point in using it unless it is as good as the T2 variant.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11377
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Posted - 2016.06.01 08:37:22 -
[126] - Quote
Its for people that run a lot of easy relic and data sites and current sites are for them so easy it is ridiculous. Smaller vessels, mainly using microwarpdrives that could use a one more capacitor booster.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
152
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Posted - 2016.06.01 12:55:55 -
[127] - Quote
Why not make them scriptable and just as good as their T2 counterparts, BUT have the scripts / ammunition they use be depleteable, bulky and also dropped from data sites in high sec? The modules would drop from low/nullsec.
Hell, let's put special faction ammo in WH data sites and we've got a fun novelty product!
It would create an honest dilemma between cargo space, expense of the ammo and fitting requirements. Also, a much needed buff to data sites.
On a completely different slate, can the Echelon get a high slot, pretty please? |
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
152
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Posted - 2016.06.01 12:58:39 -
[128] - Quote
Excellent CEO wrote:Dadunar wrote:Now if only data sites were worth doing. This so much. Also why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3?
I know, right? Mobile depots made this module so redundant it's not even funny... |
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
152
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Posted - 2016.06.01 13:03:05 -
[129] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:I think most numbers tweaks will just push this module back and forth between "redundant" and "must-have" for most people. What I personally think would be a more interesting drawback would be to drastically lower the optimal range, such that you have to be too close to the can while hacking to be able to immediately cloak up. This would inject a little more risk in the act of hacking, rather than the minigame itself.
I agree with this. Make it the same as both T2s combined,, but nerf the optimal range to death. (80+% reduction)
Would make the purloined Sansha codebreaker all the more impressive! |
Moah
Incogn1tus
0
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Posted - 2016.06.02 08:11:43 -
[130] - Quote
Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s... |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
605
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Posted - 2016.06.02 08:23:40 -
[131] - Quote
Moah wrote:Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s... So they didn't change it? Last time I checked them on Sisi they were better than T2.
I am the 85%
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11394
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Posted - 2016.06.02 08:25:19 -
[132] - Quote
So ligature only provides functionality and zeugma is like the tech II wariant of a ligature itr seems.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Darkwing Fiftytwo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.06.02 19:55:46 -
[133] - Quote
I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites.
This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites.
Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites.
Eventually they could likely increase the drop rates back up a bit once things get balanced.
Whether or not this was the intended effect is still up in the air.
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A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.06.03 01:42:06 -
[134] - Quote
Just got one of these blueprints 5 minutes ago..the "Ligature" one, with a run of 3 on it...no prices on the market yet..will have to wait to see the price..the components are going to be fun finding too |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2528
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Posted - 2016.06.03 07:19:44 -
[135] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites.
This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites.
Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11410
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Posted - 2016.06.03 09:40:24 -
[136] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites.
This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites.
Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull?
Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true worth.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Darkwing Fiftytwo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2016.06.03 14:47:54 -
[137] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites.
This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites.
Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull?
I agree, I actually earlier posted the stats are lacklustre, I bet they get bumped a bit. |
Steluna de Chasteux
Acme Entropy
6
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Posted - 2016.06.03 18:39:22 -
[138] - Quote
Moah wrote:Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s...
The Zeugma has 20pts less virus coherence and only one utility slot compared to the t2 variants, and the Ligature the same compared to its t1. How is this better?
For any explorer working difficult sites (Jspace/ null/ ghost sites), the 20pt compromise is not worth the gain of one midslot, especially since the spike in prices for the required materiel has made the module ridiculously expensive. That materiel is also not that common, in my experience averaging a few units per site. It's very telling that these new modules are still rare on the market (not a single one yet put up for sale in my usual hub-regions)
From a performance perspective, these modules might have been useful for hi and losec explorers, but certainly not at current market prices. In my opinion, CCP needs to significantly reduce the material build requirements, or heavily boost the drop rates thereof. |
Steluna de Chasteux
Acme Entropy
6
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Posted - 2016.06.03 20:04:23 -
[139] - Quote
Excellent CEO wrote:... why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3?
Having to make and fly to a safe to deploy a cargohold-hog of a mobile depot in order to swap out the modules is not discouragement enough?) |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
605
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Posted - 2016.06.04 08:43:13 -
[140] - Quote
Steluna de Chasteux wrote:The Zeugma has 20pts less virus coherence and only one utility slot compared to the t2 variants, and the Ligature the same compared to its t1. How is this better? because on Sisi release it was better than T2. T2 has 120 coherence, zeugma 140. I don't have it on Tranq so can't compare yet.
I am the 85%
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Skadoos
Tragedians
0
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Posted - 2016.06.06 08:06:13 -
[141] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value.
The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component.
Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
607
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:07:13 -
[142] - Quote
Skadoos wrote:The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component.
Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requiremens by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate. The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value.
I am the 85%
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:08:47 -
[143] - Quote
Skadoos wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value. The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component. Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate. Or make data sites drop more of them. One more thing is how popular they will be and how much of those Data Chips is generated, but they dont end on market because they are unpopular. Some people may just collect them and not sell, can trash them or dont loot them or even jettison them as trash not worth much. This thread gives some insight into this issue.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Skadoos
Tragedians
0
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Posted - 2016.06.06 10:08:38 -
[144] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value.
It would increase the lower bound on the value of data sites a bit but there are lots of other factors that make data sites worthless in general. Red cans in null data sites are regularly empty of loot. Encryption and rigging skill books are worthless, same as 10m-¦ stacks of parts. Faction POS towers and modules are obsolete. Obscure faction materials such as Trigger Mechanisms or the rare item that does have value can only be sold for a reasonable price by babysitting a sell order or contract in Jita for weeks, i.e. by means that are orthogonal to exploration.
There need to be reasons for running data sites other than collecting materials to build a module for running data sites, otherwise it's a wheel in the machine not connected to anything. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
607
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Posted - 2016.06.08 18:24:35 -
[145] - Quote
I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c. Bug or intentional?
I am the 85%
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6018
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Posted - 2016.06.08 18:37:43 -
[146] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c. Bug or intentional?
Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
607
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Posted - 2016.06.08 18:44:55 -
[147] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?
yes but I have better implants for data hacking.
I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence.
I am the 85%
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Darkwing Fiftytwo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2016.06.10 16:45:09 -
[148] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?
yes but I have better implants for data hacking. I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence.
So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2 |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
607
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Posted - 2016.06.10 20:04:23 -
[149] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2 I have no idea what's behind this. RedDawn is silent lately. It's not what we have in OP.
I am the 85%
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Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
77
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Posted - 2016.06.11 11:29:46 -
[150] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?
yes but I have better implants for data hacking. I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence. So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2 Given that it costs around 300m to build a zeugma at current prices, it kind of needs to be substantially better than T2 if it's to be used at all. |
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