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Mutli-Use Analyzers Feedback Thread

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 755	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:43:13 - [1] - Quote Hi all. After releasing some information regarding this during Fanfest, I'd like to get your feedback on two new Storyline exploration modules. I propose to release two new mid slot 'hacking' modules, that can open both Data and Relic containers. This would free up a mid slot for all explorers who wish to use these modules, rather then having to fit both the Data and Relic Analyzers separately. However as these modules would combine two separate 'functions' together, they will be less effective generally than their individual, specialised counterparts. The BPC's for these modules would drop from all Data exploration sites. The GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the lower end Info Shard and Com Tower containers, while the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the higher end Mainframe and Databank containers. Now on to the stats. GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range5000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence30 Virus Strength15 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level1 CPU usage25 GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range6000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence 50 Virus Strength20 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level2 CPU usage30 To manufacture these modules, you will require the following: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer I x1 Data Analyzer I x1 High-Tech Data Chipx500 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x500 High-Tech Scanner x500 GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000 You will also require both of the same Data and Relic skills that the Tech I and Tech II current analyzers use. That's it for now, please share your thoughts, ideas and concerns. Fly safe, (and thanks for an awesome Fanfest yet again) CCP RedDawn Team Space Glitter

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 5978	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:52:52 - [2] - Quote Not a bad idea, I think. Especially considering that some people swap them around with a mobile depot, so the end fit wouldn't be that different, just more cargo space (Not entirely sure how common this is. I just have anecdotal data on it. May be worth checking Eve Metrics, or bugging Quant.) For people wanting to compare: They're 10 weaker coherence than the T1/T2 versions, 5 weaker on strength, and take 5 more cpu. and have one less slot to store things you find (like the coherence improver thing) I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote. Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1175	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:55:30 - [3] - Quote While I can see the benefits of having one mod to rule them all, they look very expensive. The idea isn't bad but I would still stick to my 2 tech 2 mods on my Astero / Stratios for the task at hand. Now if the mods would have a tad more range to warrant the price, that would be a different story. Say 7000m for the t1 and 8000m for the t2. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Dr Zemph Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 5	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:56:53 - [4] - Quote Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well. I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task
Canenald Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:56:56 - [5] - Quote I don't think this will be used a lot. The hacking minigame is already random and fatal enough (for the loot at least) that you'll want to max out your virus strength as much as possible. There's in general two kinds of explorers I've encountered so far: 1) Focusing only on relic sites for the best loot. They don't give a **** about integrated analyzers because they only do relic sites. 2) Doing both. If I can't find a good relic site at least I'll get decent loot from those 10 data sites. We usually don't need the extra mid. The one use where I can see it as useful is for newbro explorers who need that scan strength more than virus strength, so they can free up a mid and put an array in it. I don't see this happening much if the storyline modules remain expensive.
Carbon Alabel The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 10	Posted - 2016.04.25 11:59:30 - [6] - Quote I like the idea, but don't see myself using them as I don't consider the extra mid slot to be worth the significant decrease in virus strength.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 5978	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:00:28 - [7] - Quote Dr Zemph wrote: Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well. I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task Uh, it doesn't take up twice the space? It's taking up half the space, as you only need to have one fitted? That's the entire point? I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote. Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Noene Drops Deep Chain Diving 23	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:00:46 - [8] - Quote The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers.
Aiken Paru Anoikis Nomads EvE-Scout Enclave 0	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:21 - [9] - Quote GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer - virus strength of a T1 analyzer - coherence between T1 and T2 - only 2 instead of 3 utility slots - 5 more CPU compared to a single T2, 25 less than both modules Hmmm... most exploration ships -- including some Interceptors -- have no issue fitting both analyzers. I can't help feeling that these modules try to fill a niche that in reality isn't there. With the reduced coherence compared to a T2 module this new module is pretty much out of question for Interceptors. Those exploration hulls who don't have enough midslots for both 'traditional' analyzers have enough cargo for a mobile depot. Personally I don't see the little bit of convenience that the Zeugma adds worth the downsides. Less CPU is nice but exploration ships generally aren't very tight on CPU to begin with unless fitted with Expanded Probe Launchers. How about a scripted module? GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer is so weak compared to a T1 I see no use whatsoever.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 5978	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:22 - [10] - Quote Noene Drops wrote: The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers. Your skills do affect them? Archaeology adds 10 to virus coherence per level (for relic analyzers), and hacking does the same for data analyzers) I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote. Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Canenald Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:59 - [11] - Quote Makes no sense to make it scripted. Scripts make sense in a fight were you have to wait for the cycle to finish then click through the script change. Out of combat, when there's no pressure, you might as well let it do both things well without scripts, but I'm strongly against that. Specialized analyzers give us choice, and eve is fun because of all the choices you have to make.
Dr Zemph Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 5	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:06:11 - [12] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Dr Zemph wrote: Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well. I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task Uh, it doesn't take up twice the space? It's taking up half the space, as you only need to have one fitted? That's the entire point? Ah, damn, good catch. Guess I mis-read the volume. Still think scripting is a better way to go though, in my humble opinion
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 107	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:19:25 - [13] - Quote I applaud the idea, but I do not see it being used to much. Ignoring the price, if I am going exploring, I am going to max out on the virus strength. As an explorer, the loss of a mid is acceptable because I am not setup primarily for combat. Yes, you can fight, but you fit the ship for a job. Now, if these had the same virus strength, then I would actually use it, but if I am going to be flying an astero or cov ops around, I would lose the mid for max effeciency.
Noene Drops Deep Chain Diving 23	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:29:31 - [14] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Noene Drops wrote: The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers. Your skills do affect them? Archaeology adds 10 to virus coherence per level (for relic analyzers), and hacking does the same for data analyzers) Apologize if I made it unclear but I was addressing the requirements: Quote: You will also require both of the same Data and Relic skills that the Tech I and Tech II current analyzers use. The way I understand it, I won't be able to use "T2" module if I have one of the hacking skills not at V. So I suggested that scripts could solve that. The modules themselves could differ by base stats and initial bonuses to hacking.
Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1652	Posted - 2016.04.25 12:56:06 - [15] - Quote Considering every explorer I know carries a mobile depot in their hold to change things around, I don't see why not... warping off, deploying a depot, changing your modules, scooping and warping back, is not fun gameplay... so a single module would work fine.
Savant Alabel Raging Angels Pure Blind Cartel 61	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:09:59 - [16] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Not a bad idea, I think. Especially considering that some people swap them around with a mobile depot, so the end fit wouldn't be that different, just more cargo space (Not entirely sure how common this is. I just have anecdotal data on it. May be worth checking Eve Metrics, or bugging Quant.) For people wanting to compare: They're 10 weaker coherence than the T1/T2 versions, 5 weaker on strength, and take 5 more cpu. and have one less slot to store things you find (like the coherence improver thing) Some people refit with depot, but most of other just skip datasites.
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 276	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:26:13 - [17] - Quote How about adding scripts to this new module to make them as efficient as specialised modules?
Jean-Jaques Keikira Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 9	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:26:56 - [18] - Quote It's somewhat counter-intuitive to the typical meta. A weaker module is going to be useful only in weaker sites (high-sec), meaning there is less potential risk that would need to be mitigated with an extra mid (tank, ecm, etc). If I'm hacking in null or a WH, I really don't want to risk losing cans, so the most powerful Data/Relic Analyzer is worth the extra slot or time in a Mobile Depot. I would never use it in a Sleeper Cache or Ghost Site where my ship is on the line while hacking. I suppose it would allow for more use of the Scanning modules (Pinpointing, Rangefinding, etc), because three of them are usually contending for 1-2 slots. But then again, if you need the scanning boost, you probably need the virus bonuses more. That being said, there's really no downside to more exploration modules. I'm sure somebody will find a use for it somewhere. It's just filling a niche that is limited to non-existent right now. I would say that re-balancing Data Sites and adding more interactive sites like the Sleeper Caches would be far higher on most explorer's radar than new modules. Many people just skip Data Sites (and the Analyzer) entirely now because Relics are so much more lucrative.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2461	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:44:51 - [19] - Quote The idea is interesting, but the modules are way too expensive for the low stats, which make them useless compared to the specialized modules. Why add a new module that combines both but is worse when you can just remove both modules and add 1 new module that is as good as the former specialized ones? Wasn't Fozzie happy about the removal of the module clutter that the old ECCM modules were, and now you add new clutter? UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5799	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:48:25 - [20] - Quote Max virus strength is too important to consider using these. But don't throw this idea out (it's not a terrible idea in principle like the daily chore idea; it's just an unrefined one). These are an example of something that could be balanced by rarity. Mirror the T2 stats, but aim for a high price tag, perhaps in the 800-1100m range. Gives people an option to risk more exploring for faster sites and will lead to hilarious killmails. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".

Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 115	Posted - 2016.04.25 13:57:45 - [21] - Quote I have been waiting for such a module for such a long time :) One thing I have to ask though: Why incorporate 3 of the 4 high-tech items and not all 4? As for the debate above, I think there should be a third faction version of this module that compares with the current tech 2 data/relic analysers. This item should be very rare and expensive to make. I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites!
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2461	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:05:47 - [22] - Quote Yadaryon Vondawn wrote: I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites! In particular in sleeper sites this module is worthless because you need the high coherence and virus strength of a T2 to reliably and quickly hack the cans in order to not blow up (in particular in the Superior Cache). Lower coherence and strength weigh a lot more than a saved mid slot that cannot be filled with anything meaningful. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Valence Benedetto South of Heaven Ltd Blades of Grass 3	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:33:20 - [23] - Quote I think you guys should just ask yourselves whether having separate modules for data and relic makes EVE a better or more interesting game. Personally, I don't see it. Related - exploration is considered one of the beginner-friendly ways to play EVE. So there is some further argument for streamlining.
Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 115	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:34:19 - [24] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Yadaryon Vondawn wrote: I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites! In particular in sleeper sites this module is worthless because you need the high coherence and virus strength of a T2 to reliably and quickly hack the cans in order to not blow up (in particular in the Superior Cache). Higher coherence and strength weigh a lot more than a saved mid slot that cannot be filled with anything meaningful. The only thing this module will achieve is more people exploding in these sites because they got tricked by CCP into thinking that an open mid slot is better than higher coherence/strength. In general, however, I agree with Sabriz Adoudel's post. The suggested price tag is a bit excessive, though. I know! Hence my suggestion to create a faction version that is on par with current T2 data/relic modules. I consider sleeper sites the pinacle of exploration challenge and as such I think it would be fitting to engage those sites with a similiar high class module :)
Amak Boma Dragon Factory 185	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:34:29 - [25] - Quote give gnosis bonus to using the faction modules lets say 10% coherence and virus strenght kick off weapon bonus for gnosis and allow gnosis to use covert cyno or reduce speed penalty for using non-covert cloaking devices
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 258	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:45:31 - [26] - Quote Can someone explain to me the gameplay value of having separate relic and data sites with identical mechanics? Fitting 2 modules isn't a meaningful choice at all. 2x the skills, 2x the modules, for the same outcome. (Though admittedly crappy on data sites). IMO just have a single hacking module with a single skill that works on both, and move on.
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 258	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:46:32 - [27] - Quote Valence Benedetto wrote: I think you guys should just ask yourselves whether having separate modules for data and relic makes EVE a better or more interesting game. Personally, I don't see it. Related - exploration is considered one of the beginner-friendly ways to play EVE. So there is some further argument for streamlining. Exactly my point. I don't see anything interesting from keeping them split.
Thea Jones Republic University Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:47:19 - [28] - Quote I really believe you are making this overly complicated. Merge the Hacking and Data analyzers into just 1 module. You can make faction versions that gives you better range as well as higher strength. And just leave it as that. TLDR.. there really is no real need to have this as two separate modules anymore.
Jack Hayson La Luna Negro inPanic 365	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:50:26 - [29] - Quote Why would you want to hack data sites? They only drop worthless cr*p anyway.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2414	Posted - 2016.04.25 14:58:11 - [30] - Quote As a ceptor explorer I need to max out my strength because of the non-bonused hull, so I wouldn't use a module with lower strength. Anyway it's too expensive for a 30m ship and there are not many situations where I would need both analyzers as I'm going either for relic or (in drone lands) data sites. As an explorer hunter I appreciate the introduction of new expensive modules of course. I'm my own NPC alt.

Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 292	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:18:06 - [31] - Quote Quote: Max virus strength is too important to consider using these. ... These are an example of something that could be balanced by rarity. Mirror the T2 stats, but aim for a high price tag... I agree here. I don't see these new modules being used that much. They are too bad in performance to be an option. If a new faction analyzer had the current Tech2 stats for both datas and relics, i would totally use it (even if it is expensive) Quote: One thing I have to ask though: Why incorporate 3 of the 4 high-tech items and not all 4? Yeah, what about the "High-Tech Small Arms" components? Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 566	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:35:18 - [32] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: I don't see these new modules being used that much. They are too bad in performance to be an option. If a new faction analyzer had the current Tech2 stats for both datas and relics, i would totally use it (even if it is expensive) This. Merge data and relics modules but with high price (I have no idea what is high in that case ). This would be meaningfull choice. Hacking game is random, best option is to have T2 modules fitted. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2461	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:37:50 - [33] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Why would you want to hack data sites? They only drop worthless crp anyway. Your T2 ships don't grow on trees, you know? And even less do affordable T2 ships build with good decryptors. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.*
Teodora Sidh ATAC OTMOPO3OK B KOCMOCE. FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT STELLAR SYSTEMS 0	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:43:20 - [34] - Quote http://clip2net.com/s/3xmvnss Why buy steel for 3 days

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 759	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:43:21 - [35] - Quote Thanks for all the thoughts so far. Couple of things: * I get the concerns with the lower strength, but I don't want to make the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (the stronger one) the 'always go-to' option. They have to have some limitations with their dual benefit. (I already see that players are skilled enough in the hacking game that the loss of a utility element slot might not be so detrimental on its own) * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future * Small Arms just don't make enough contextual sense to be included in the building materials In conjunction with these new modules, the Small Arms will be removed completely from the data site loot tables * I'm going to increase the overall activation range of both of these modules as well * Scripts are an interesting idea, but I think that in the future we can introduce a much more varied hacking experience with the introduction of different types of defense software and utility elements (again, increasing the difference of the data and relic hacking experiences) Please keep the feedback coming. Team Astro Sparkle

Sharps WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 24	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:45:13 - [36] - Quote The "interesting" part of exploration is the risk of surprise PVP while you're doing the hacking. Meaningful module choices should emphasize this risk instead of being merely more convenient. Meaningful tradeoffs for stronger modules: - Sig radius bloom - Velocity reduction - Warp core strength reduction - Cloak reactivation delay after module cycle - Disables directional scan while active - Disables local while active
Tethys Luxor Hecate Explo 15	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:45:15 - [37] - Quote Interceptors with T2 analyser and no coherence rigs have more than 95% success rate on highest difficulty minigames Covops with the Zeugma new module will have better stats than interceptors have with T2 analysers. So Covops can choose between stomping cans with T2 analyser or trade that hack comfort for more flexibility (scan modules, cargo scanner, use a ship with less midslot). Inty will not have that option. So IMHO, you will have a bit more people running data sites and sleeper caches. Covops gain a small incentive over interceptors but that's not that much, especially since one inty can fit both analysers. This is not a fantastic change, but it adds choices.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 166	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:48:02 - [38] - Quote I have proposal to made 2 asymmetric modules One more relic, other more data Stats like this: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (more Relic version) Volume 5 m3 Activation Cost 25 GJ Optimal Range 5500 m Activation Time / Duration 10 seconds Relic Virus Coherence 56 Relic Virus Strength 30 Data Virus Coherence 40 Data Virus Strength 20 Virus Utility Element Slots 2 Tech Level 2 CPU usage 40 Same for more Data version.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1838	Posted - 2016.04.25 15:51:20 - [39] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi all. After releasing some information regarding this during Fanfest, I'd like to get your feedback on two new Storyline exploration modules. I propose to release two new mid slot 'hacking' modules, that can open both Data and Relic containers. This would free up a mid slot for all explorers who wish to use these modules, rather then having to fit both the Data and Relic Analyzers separately. However as these modules would combine two separate 'functions' together, they will be less effective generally than their individual, specialised counterparts. The BPC's for these modules would drop from all Data exploration sites. The GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the lower end Info Shard and Com Tower containers, while the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the higher end Mainframe and Databank containers. Now on to the stats. GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range5000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence30 Virus Strength15 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level1 CPU usage25 GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range6000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence 50 Virus Strength20 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level2 CPU usage30 To manufacture these modules, you will require the following: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer I x1 Data Analyzer I x1 High-Tech Data Chipx500 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x500 High-Tech Scanner x500 GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000 You will also require both of the same Data and Relic skills that the Tech I and Tech II current analyzers use. That's it for now, please share your thoughts, ideas and concerns. Fly safe, (and thanks for an awesome Fanfest yet again) CCP RedDawn In principle this is a lovely idea. Losing a little coherence is disappointing but bearable. Losing virus strength is however a game breaker for these modules, If I remember correctly, in relation to the way virus strength with the current "attacks" from the minigame, Virus strength is a binary function. Ie you kill it or you dont. 10 is the step that will actually determing a "kill" so effectively this is another step to kill the virus. There is absolutely no point in these items, unless they are something to be fitted by someone who has never done the minigame before. Tldr, reduce coherence, reduce slot for utility, but do not reduce virus strength unless you want to kill the module before birth. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 566	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:05:52 - [40] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Tldr, reduce coherence, reduce slot for utility, but do not reduce virus strength unless you want to kill the module before birth. Hard to balance, if those modules have same strenght as T2 they will be almost the same as T2 because coherence can be boosted by implants. If you take too much coherence they will be useless with harder nodes (sleepers). CCP RedDawn wrote: * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future Decide then because there are contrary signals here. First you want to introduce modules that do them all then you want more variations overall. I think you need to improve hacking game first then introduce new modules. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...

Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 260	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:08:34 - [41] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: I think you need to improve hacking game first then introduce new modules. Agreed. Collapse them into one system now, and when you're ready to roll out the diverse sites with new gameplay in the future, add your 2nd hacking module type then.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 662	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:21:32 - [42] - Quote A cool idea but honestly I'd still prefer to see the modules merged and or scripted. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Skyler Hawk The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 75	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:24:41 - [43] - Quote Quote: * I get the concerns with the lower strength, but I don't want to make the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (the stronger one) the 'always go-to' option. They have to have some limitations with their dual benefit. (I already see that players are skilled enough in the hacking game that the loss of a utility element slot might not be so detrimental on its own) I think a better way to achieve the goal of making a useful combined module would be to give it equal strength/coherence to the specialized modules, but much higher fitting costs than two of them - you need 50 cpu and 2 pg to run a t2 relic and data analyzer, so the combined module could maybe take 70 cpu and 5 pg, so you're trading midslots for fitting space.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1839	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:30:16 - [44] - Quote Skyler Hawk wrote: Quote: * I get the concerns with the lower strength, but I don't want to make the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (the stronger one) the 'always go-to' option. They have to have some limitations with their dual benefit. (I already see that players are skilled enough in the hacking game that the loss of a utility element slot might not be so detrimental on its own) I think a better way to achieve the goal of making a useful combined module would be to give it equal strength/coherence to the specialized modules, but much higher fitting costs than two of them - you need 50 cpu and 2 pg to run a t2 relic and data analyzer, so the combined module could maybe take 70 cpu and 5 pg, so you're trading midslots for fitting space. Yes that would be logical, one really cannot mess with the strengths of the module without making the new modules entirely useless, see post earlier. Fitting is the most logical place to apply a penalty, provided it is still able to be fitted. In my opinion It should have the same fitting requirements as both modules combined (data and relic analyser) And absolutely No other changes from the core modules coherence, virus strength, slots, all as the base module. And additionally give the higher spec module T2 skill requirements. Then they would be nicely balanced, effective, desireable, and in no way overpowered. There is absolutely no point in creating modules that are either not wanted or mislead new explorers into fitting a module that is worse in every practical way than T1 There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Alundil Rolled Out 1095	Posted - 2016.04.25 16:35:23 - [45] - Quote Aiken Paru wrote: GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer - virus strength of a T1 analyzer - coherence between T1 and T2 - only 2 instead of 3 utility slots - 5 more CPU compared to a single T2, 25 less than both modules Hmmm... most exploration ships -- including some Interceptors -- have no issue fitting both analyzers. I can't help feeling that these modules try to fill a niche that in reality isn't there. With the reduced coherence/strength compared to a T2 module this new module is pretty much out of question for Interceptors. Those exploration hulls who don't have enough midslots for both 'traditional' analyzers have enough cargo for a mobile depot. Personally I don't see the little bit of convenience that the Zeugma adds being worth the downsides. Less CPU is nice but exploration ships generally aren't very tight on CPU to begin with unless fitted with Expanded Probe Launchers. Edited for clarity: How about - single scriptable module - coherence and strength on par with existing T2 modules - 2 utility slots - between 60 or 70 CPU requirement to not be OP end edit GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer is so weak compared to a T1 I see no use whatsoever. Options are good (for those that want them). Though I think for the dedicated explorers, they'll tend to stick with the T2 versions for maximum effectiveness. I'm right behind you
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 292	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:13:12 - [46] - Quote With these current stats, nobody will ever use the GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer. It is worse than even the Tech1 variants. CCP RedDawn wrote: I get the concerns with the lower strength, but I don't want to make the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (the stronger one) the 'always go-to' option. They have to have some limitations with their dual benefit. The limitation would be the price tag. CCP RedDawn wrote: Small Arms just don't make enough contextual sense to be included in the building materials In conjunction with these new modules, the Small Arms will be removed completely from the data site loot tables So, do you plan to remove "High-TechSmall Arms" completely from the game? epicurus ataraxia wrote: Losing a little coherence is disappointing but bearable. Losing virus strength is however a game breaker for these modules ... Reducing the virus strength by 4,5,8, or 10 doesn't matter, it is a failed kill. So you haven't reduced the ligature by 5 at all, you have reduced it to/by an effective 10. ^This is very important. A slight decrease in strength is making a huge difference. Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:18:54 - [47] - Quote Tethys Luxor wrote: Interceptors with T2 analyser and no coherence rigs have more than 95% success rate on highest difficulty minigames It's not just about the success rate for optimal play, but also about the speed with which one can hack and the attention one has to pay to the process. Or in other words, just how sub-optimal can play be and still result in a successful hack? If the combined module doesn't have as good stats as my Tech II separate ones, then I'm likely to stick with those. I think nobody has noted yet the proposed loss of a virus utility slot? That makes matters somewhat worse still. Increasing the fitting requirements makes sense concerning game play, but it is a bit illogical. Given the similarities between both kinds of hacks, I would expect a combined module to draw slightly more PG&CPU than the separated ones - certainly not twice as much plus overhead. That's not how tech works... The best idea is still to abandon the separated modules outright and simply offer several tiers of combined modules, at roughly the old stats. The extra mid slot (for those who now fly both modules) is really not such a significant buff for this class of ship doing this kind of job. The one place where I could see a trade-off happening is in Optimal Range. So if there must be both, let the combined module have less range than the separated ones (because it needs to detect the type of site), but otherwise be equivalent.
Tethys Luxor Hecate Explo 15	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:38:16 - [48] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: Tethys Luxor wrote: Interceptors with T2 analyser and no coherence rigs have more than 95% success rate on highest difficulty minigames It's not just about the success rate for optimal play, but also about the speed with which one can hack and the attention one has to pay to the process. Or in other words, just how sub-optimal can play be and still result in a successful hack? If the combined module doesn't have as good stats as my Tech II separate ones, then I'm likely to stick with those. Exactly : it's comfort (speed) vs a midslot. That's an interesting choice, especially because different ships may choose different solutions. If the combined module has the same stat as T2, it's a no brainer. Quote: I think nobody has noted yet the proposed loss of a virus utility slot? That makes matters somewhat worse still. The one place where I could see a trade-off happening is in Optimal Range. So if there must be both, let the combined module have less range than the separated ones (because it needs to detect the type of site), but otherwise be equivalent. The loss a utility virus slot is an interesting thing and is a way for subtle script tuning. I doubt that 1 missing matters but 2 would make people think. The range below 6k is not that much of a change, even if you go beyond the cloak range.
Circumstantial Evidence 304	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:47:57 - [49] - Quote Players that haven't skilled up for T2 might like to try them. Once you have skilled up to use T2, and that strength, there's no turning back. I have no interest in using the modules as described. Mobile depot makes switching too easy. Consider adding more drawbacks. Less coherence. One utility slot? I see many other good suggestions here about new drawbacks.
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 292	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:51:20 - [50] - Quote Tethys Luxor wrote: Exactly : it's comfort (speed) vs a midslot. That's an interesting choice, especially because different ships may choose different solutions. If the combined module has the same stat as T2, it's a no brainer. And if the combined module would cost 100 mil ISK? Or 200? Or 500? Would it still be a no-brainer?? Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33766	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:53:12 - [51] - Quote yeah sure make them less powerful but really the two modules for similar activities is confusing. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 115	Posted - 2016.04.25 18:08:29 - [52] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: * Small Arms just don't make enough contextual sense to be included in the building materials In conjunction with these new modules, the Small Arms will be removed completely from the data site loot tables Please keep the feedback coming. Interesting! Since they will be removed from the data sites, where will they be obtained from? And on that same page, what will they be used for :)?
Tethys Luxor Hecate Explo 15	Posted - 2016.04.25 18:13:37 - [53] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: Tethys Luxor wrote: Exactly : it's comfort (speed) vs a midslot. That's an interesting choice, especially because different ships may choose different solutions. If the combined module has the same stat as T2, it's a no brainer. And if the combined module would cost 100 mil ISK? Or 200? Or 500? Would it still be a no-brainer?? Agreed. I'm not fitting sisters launcher on most of my ships. But if it's too expensive there's just no incentive.
Beta Maoye 113	Posted - 2016.04.25 20:13:14 - [54] - Quote Speculators have responded to the call. Price of components has been jacked up hugely. May be vague about the exact amount of ingredients next time to reduce the degree of speculation is not a bad idea. 'Ligature' Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer I x1= 55,000 Data Analyzer I x1= 47,000 High-Tech Data Chip 70,000x500= 35,000,000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools 8,500x500= 4,250,000 High-Tech Scanner 80,000X500= 40,000,000 Total: 79,352,000 isk 'Zeugma' Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer II x1= 1,500,000 Data Analyzer II x1= 1,370,000 High-Tech Data Chip 70,000x1000= 70,000,000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools 8,500x1000= 8,500,000 High-Tech Scanner 80,000x1000= 80,000,000 Total: 161,370,000 isk
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 292	Posted - 2016.04.25 20:39:50 - [55] - Quote @Beta Maoye The market is too volatile at the moment, because of this very anouncement, to take current prices for your math. For example, you priced "High-Tech Manufacturing Tools" at 8,500 ISK. But there aren't even 1,000 units on market in Jita right now. Calculations like these are pointless right now. @CCP RedDawn, please consider the idea of adding a third integrated analyzer, combining the stats of the current Tech2 variants. Make the BPC drop chance really low or the manufacturing cost really high (or both), but it would be really cool to see such a module ingame. I'll just quote a comment from reddit here: Quote: Don't see a big demand for it. A new faction analyzer with the stats of both current tech2 analyzers on the other hand.... Quote: I'd pay good fu**ing money for that. In a heart beat. Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2462	Posted - 2016.04.25 21:01:11 - [56] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: @Beta Maoye The market is too volatile at the moment, because of this very anouncement, to take current prices for your math. For example, you priced "High-Tech Manufacturing Tools" at 8,500 ISK. But there aren't even 1,000 units on market in Jita right now. Calculations like these are pointless right now. Not that pointless after all: Citadel Patch Notes wrote: Exploration: The drop rates of all High-Tech goods in exploration Data sites have been greatly reduced. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Aya Nova Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S 18	Posted - 2016.04.25 22:14:40 - [57] - Quote I like the idea of these, but they need to be tweaked. Merging Relic and Data mechanics into one skill, one module - No, just no. Just because things are similar, doesn't mean we should eliminate the choices. If we go down that path let's kill off ammo variants, asteroid variants, PI planet variants, moon goo variants, etc. Don't give in to over-simpliftying the game. Please keep them separate and work on ways to add further complexity and distinctiveness in the future. Virus strength as others said, it needs to be equal to their T1/T2 counterparts or they will be useless Drawbacks - A -10 coherence vs their equivalent is a reasonable loss partial drawback. Price should be another as it ups the gamble on field and adds to the value of hunting explorers. Ideal prices would aim at 20M T1 / 100M T2. It's easier to lower prices later than raise them if these are underused. Another path to drawbacks could be a penalty to probe scan strength. I also see these as an opportunity to add more desirability to the Anathema and Cheetah. What about giving them lower CPU use than the sum of equivalent modules, but higher power use (5MW or so) and pair it with a matching boost to the power grid on the 4 mid-slot CovOps-es. Thus on Anathema and Cheetah they will serve as an usability equalizer, while on the Buzzard and Helios they will offer a trade of PG for the extra slot
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 136	Posted - 2016.04.25 22:28:22 - [58] - Quote Tethys Luxor wrote: Exactly : it's comfort (speed) vs a midslot. That's an interesting choice, especially because different ships may choose different solutions. If the combined module has the same stat as T2, it's a no brainer. Sorry, but I just don't think that this is an interesting choice. In my typical ships (Magnate for high sec, Anathema for the rest) I would always opt for the separate modules (if I intend to hack both). There's nothing I can think of that I would rather have in the mid slot. It's not just about "comfort", and speed is not just about "ISK/hour" (unless in a binary sense). In high sec, often enough you have a "contested" situation with two or more explorers in system. Well, I can often blitz through multiple sites while the competition is still scanning. A big part of that is Tech II vs. high sec cans, where it's literally a mini-game clickfest while in parallel scanning down the next site. In low/null/wh I basically work against a countdown to my death (the longer in site, the more likely splat) while dividing my attention to dscan. If there was some super-cool mid slot module I was itching to bring, then maybe. But what would that be for the frigates I'm flying? If this freed up a low slot instead, then maybe I would think about this harder.
Dark Drifter Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 150	Posted - 2016.04.25 23:11:41 - [59] - Quote Valence Benedetto wrote: I think you guys should just ask yourselves whether having separate modules for data and relic makes EVE a better or more interesting game. Personally, I don't see it. Related - exploration is considered one of the beginner-friendly ways to play EVE. So there is some further argument for streamlining. this guy has a point. streem line the whole process. have 1 analizer T1 on par with current T1 modules compact. better fitting at expense of loss of a utility slot T2 comparable to current T2 modules now your new mods. 1 with better coherance 1 with better virus strength
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5800	Posted - 2016.04.26 06:15:26 - [60] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Thanks for all the thoughts so far. Couple of things: * I get the concerns with the lower strength, but I don't want to make the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer (the stronger one) the 'always go-to' option. They have to have some limitations with their dual benefit. (I already see that players are skilled enough in the hacking game that the loss of a utility element slot might not be so detrimental on its own) You can address this by rarity (and hence price). High-grade Slave Alpha is strictly better than a +4 learning implant. If both are available to you, you would always use the Slave. But the Slave costs a lot to lose. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".

George Gouillot Black Fox Marauders 103	Posted - 2016.04.26 07:07:22 - [61] - Quote Good for LS exploration, lower stats do not matter as the sites are so easy, you cannot fail them even without bonus. 1 Free midslot = 1 scram.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 138	Posted - 2016.04.26 08:17:16 - [62] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: You can address this by rarity (and hence price). High-grade Slave Alpha is strictly better than a +4 learning implant. If both are available to you, you would always use the Slave. But the Slave costs a lot to lose. True enough. If you fly an exploration frigate with SoE launchers and probes, plus a similarly high price combined analyser, then you become a juicy and easy target. So there's a trade-off in bling fitting between better stats and higher risk. However, the problem is that this pitches the new module at older players. It's not just that a newbie would have to save up for their first combined module. It's also the old adage of not flying what you cannot afford... Not only do older players have more spare cash, they also (generally) have more experience and are less likely to die in a bling fit. I still think the best idea here is to only have combined modules in the future. That does not mean that relic and data sites become the same, it simply acknowledges the fact that we are playing the same underlying hack mini-game anyhow. The current situation is a bit like producing only computers with usb or thunderbolt ports, but not possibly with both, and considering it impossible to combine these ports into one device. Frankly, technology moves past such hurdles within a few years every time. I also do not think that the boost of "gaining a mid-slot" will be overpowered for the vast majority of dual module users. Most will probably fit a Rangefinding or Pinpointing Array, or perhaps a Cargo Scanner. That will provide a small but entirely controlled advantage to them. For people that fly only one module now, it will mostly mean that instead of a relic analyser they will have a combined analyser and could theoretically also hack data sites. Again, that's not really a big deal. So, just do the obvious here: fuse Tech 1 data and relic analysers into one Tech 1 analyser, do the same for Tech 2, and perhaps add some faction versions which for example trade CPU usage against hack stats. It makes sense conceptually, it gives a mild but controlled boost to explorers (in particular newbie ones who can fit an additional array!), and it avoids the complications of making the combined module artificially competitive for explorers. As for the skills, they don't actually have to be fused, at least not immediately! You could say that they represent the skills of applying the combined module to the specific case (data or relic). So depending on what kind of site you are in, you get the stats from the respective skill.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 138	Posted - 2016.04.26 08:38:48 - [63] - Quote George Gouillot wrote: Good for LS exploration, lower stats do not matter as the sites are so easy, you cannot fail them even without bonus. 1 Free midslot = 1 scram. And in what ship / fit are you going to make use of that? Most explorer frigates / covops are no good for a low sec fight. If you try this in an Astero or Stratios, then you still have weakened your combat setup by one mid slot (in which the combined analyser sits). Perhaps this works as "explorer, with opportunistic hunting of weaker explorers", but it does make you a juicy target more vulnerable to PVP. I don't think a Battle Heron works at all if you use up one mid slot for the combined analyser... I think we would mostly see fits that currently have a relic analyser and combat modules updates to have a combined analyser and the same other modules. So that's potentially a bit more PVP pressure on data sites. Anyway, even if there are a few new exploration + combat fits, I don't think that they would be game-breaking good...
Lugh Crow-Slave 2296	Posted - 2016.04.26 10:59:45 - [64] - Quote Make data sights worth it first Citadel worm hole tax

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 762	Posted - 2016.04.26 16:26:39 - [65] - Quote Looking through this thread, I'm going to up the Virus Strength of these modules to match their Tech I & II counterparts whilst keeping the other stats the same. So now the: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 20 (from 15) & GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 30 (from 20) So both still have a slightly lower Coherence (10 for each) and 1 less Utility slot, but the same Strength. (All other stats remain the same as the Tech I & II variants) Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? Team Astro Sparkle

Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1655	Posted - 2016.04.26 16:31:01 - [66] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? Better, but depends entirely on how much they end up costing... they are mostly being fitted to frigates after all, and about the most pricey module people are willing to fit to them is a sisters launcher @ 40m.
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 107	Posted - 2016.04.26 16:56:09 - [67] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Looking through this thread, I'm going to up the Virus Strength of these modules to match their Tech I & II counterparts whilst keeping the other stats the same. So now the: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 20 (from 15) & GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 30 (from 20) So both still have a slightly lower Coherence (10 for each) and 1 less Utility slot, but the same Strength. (All other stats remain the same as the Tech I & II variants) Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? They definitely look much better now. For T3 Cruisers, this would make them worth considering (pricing considerations asside). However, the min max player in me still thinks I will fit the standard T2 mods if I am going for a pure exploration (as in only data, relic, and sleeper caches) as in the high end ones you need as much coherence as possible. Overall, much better.
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 292	Posted - 2016.04.26 17:28:36 - [68] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: So both still have a slightly lower Coherence (10 for each) and 1 less Utility slot, but the same Strength. (All other stats remain the same as the Tech I & II variants) Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? Not just slightly, these stats look so much better now! Thank you RedDawn! Edit: Is there an ETA for these modules? Or just "Soon(TM)"? Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 566	Posted - 2016.04.26 17:55:46 - [69] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Looking through this thread, I'm going to up the Virus Strength of these modules to match their Tech I & II counterparts whilst keeping the other stats the same. So now the: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 20 (from 15) & GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 30 (from 20) So both still have a slightly lower Coherence (10 for each) and 1 less Utility slot, but the same Strength. (All other stats remain the same as the Tech I & II variants) Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? Smile I think you spoiled us. I will put "Zeugma" on my T3 and never look back on T2 modules. What is the price tag for those? "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Jimy F Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.04.26 23:52:38 - [70] - Quote idea is nice, i dont have realy have time for reading all post so i just write what i think, if you make multihack thingy and it is faction it shoud have the same strengf then t2 versions, becouse it will be significly more expensive, if you make t2 version it is resonable it will have less strengh then t2 single spec hack modules, without facion single sepc hack modules in game wich should have better hack strengh, or less skill requirments with t2 stenght and smaller fitting requirmens, or bouth of this two characteristic. making muti spec wich be much more expensive and have smaller strength then t2 i think dont find almoust none customers and it will be waste of your work.

Tzar Sinak Mythic Heights 209	Posted - 2016.04.27 17:54:24 - [71] - Quote It has been stated that EVE is about choices being made over how the player wants to proceed. The last thing you need is a "best" and "worst" choice. We have had too many of those. Personally I am very grateful for the module tiericide efforts to reduce the "no brainer" choice. First, may I suggest chatting with the tiericde team to at least getting an idea to the philosophy of what they were doing. Should T1 modules not be the beginner modules? Then maybe a named mod followed by T2 then another named mod? Second, research the lore. Why are we getting new modules? What npc corporations in EVE do the most exploration? Should the SoE have exploration related modules? Third, its not the modules. Its the content. For example, all the new Citadel rigs, where are these dropping? How about the pirate faction capital ship BPCs? LP store? I hope not. Maybe we need more varied data sites (faction specific data sites that require faction specific modules or scripts). Finally, new mods for the same task? That is fine but why not focus in iterating on what is already there? New mods for new types of hacking: Offensive Hacking. Hacking the tethering mechanic of a citadel to release all non piloted ships. Hacking dead towers to allow the play to scoop it. Hacking the moon mining arrays to allow the placing of siphons (that cannot be discovered through CREST). Hacking a titan to allow Project Nova troops to get in and online destroy modules. I am all for adding game play not reducing it. Choosing to run only one site type for whatever reason is a choice. Using a mobile depot to swap modules is a choice. There was a time when exploration was complex game play requiring effort, practice and education for GREAT reward. The Odyssey expansion finished the dumbing down cycle of the entire profession and with it the value of the goods that made the effort of the old system(s) worth while. Please, please iterate to reward the experienced, knowledgeable explorer and give the new explorer something to strive for. Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!
Sepheir Sepheron The Congregation No Handlebars. 49	Posted - 2016.04.28 05:08:35 - [72] - Quote In my opinion make the normal modules do both, and make them into one module with keeping the strength the same. If you guys insist on still making a new module with lower strength, consider making the fitting way higher instead of the lower strength because you need every bit of Coherence/Strength. It's not like exploration is especially lucrative now anyways unless you get extremely lucky and don't get ganked.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2930	Posted - 2016.04.28 17:41:53 - [73] - Quote I wouldn't use the lower one because it's so much worse than my t2 modules as to waste more of my time than running back home between sites to swap t2 modules. New players might use it, but only if it's as cheap as a meta module. The higher one I might be interested in if it weren't very expensive. I don't think I could be persuaded to drop more than about 5 mil on one of those. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 665	Posted - 2016.04.28 20:40:09 - [74] - Quote Sorry if I missed it but what are the exact skill requirements to equip these? Does T2 strength require V in both hacking and archeology? If the advanced one requires less than V/V then fitting these will be a no brainer compared to a 23 day train. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
James Zimmer Spooky Scary Militants DropBear Sanctuary 43	Posted - 2016.04.28 22:57:25 - [75] - Quote Personally, I wouldn't use them and here's why: I start exploration by filling my mids with scan mods, then I scan with the huge bonuses it provides and save bookmarks. Once I'm done scanning down everything in a system, I refit to hack mode with a data analyzer, a relic analyzer and a prop mod and get to hacking. At no point while I'm hacking do I need more than these 3 mids, and since all the exploration ships have at least 4 mids, freeing up a mid is entirely irrelevant to me. The only thing that would tempt me into buying a pricey hacking module would be substantially higher hacking stats, or maybe equal stats and an extra chance to hack before the container explodes.
Areen Sassel 90	Posted - 2016.04.29 02:33:11 - [76] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: I think nobody has noted yet the proposed loss of a virus utility slot? That makes matters somewhat worse still. People did, but I thought it was almost irrelevant. If you've got two utilities neither of which you had a compelling use for, you uncover a third, but then it ends up under a defensive node because you couldn't pick it up... this is not exactly likely, and Changing the utility of the directional information might offer considerable scope for module differentiation.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2533	Posted - 2016.04.29 05:11:53 - [77] - Quote Carbon Alabel wrote: I like the idea, but don't see myself using them as I don't consider the extra mid slot to be worth the significant decrease in virus strength. I am in this situation. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 766	Posted - 2016.04.29 10:03:50 - [78] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Carbon Alabel wrote: I like the idea, but don't see myself using them as I don't consider the extra mid slot to be worth the significant decrease in virus strength. I am in this situation. In the earlier posts I mention that I've increased the Strength values to the same as the Tech I and Tech II variants. I've also updated the initial post. These new analyzers now only have 1 less utility slot, less Coherence and a higher CPU requirement. Team Astro Sparkle

Aivlis Eldelbar Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance 165	Posted - 2016.04.29 10:51:01 - [79] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Carbon Alabel wrote: I like the idea, but don't see myself using them as I don't consider the extra mid slot to be worth the significant decrease in virus strength. I am in this situation. In the earlier posts I mention that I've increased the Strength values to the same as the Tech I and Tech II variants. I've also updated the initial post. These new analyzers now only have 1 less utility slot, less Coherence and a higher CPU requirement. Then they will obsolete the current ones, making exploration even easier, sadly. I am very rarely constrained by the number of utility slots, as most consumables can be activated right away. Neither am I pressed for mids, to be honest, but I see how this could lower the barrier of entry even more, allowing low-skill players to compensate by fitting a scan enhancing midslot module. I'm going to sound like a bittervet here, but hear me out: I liked exploration because it rewarded curiosity and not that many people had the spatial awareness to probe with the old system, or the desire to carry a probe launcher to even know that there were sigs in system, or, crucially, the desire to train for a covops to be effective at it, which was promptly fixed by easy-mode SOE ships. Nowadays it's not worth my time because the Odyssey expansion made it an entry-level occupation in EVE and the prices for the loot crashed spectacularly. The sleeper sites helped mitigate that, but dual-purpose analyzers would be a direct counter to that, as they would allow under-equipped explorers to access them, whereas before they would often pass due to lacking a data module or due to the time required to swap back and forth. tl;dr, I'm not intrinsically against dual-purpose analyzers, but I am concerned that they would lower the fitting and ship requirement barrier even lower. Relic-hunting interceptors are an actual thing in New Eden right now, think on that before you make it any easier to scan and hack.
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2845	Posted - 2016.04.29 11:23:03 - [80] - Quote I like this idea. Data and Relic analysers as separate modules for what is exactly the same role (hacking a little can) has always struck me as a bit daft. There is no real choice to be made, especially now after the advent of mobile depots. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 141	Posted - 2016.04.29 11:33:24 - [81] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: In the earlier posts I mention that I've increased the Strength values to the same as the Tech I and Tech II variants. I've also updated the initial post. These new analyzers now only have 1 less utility slot, less Coherence and a higher CPU requirement. What is your reasoning for not simply combining current Tech I Data/Relic into one combined scanner, and likewise for Tech II, and then leave room for future faction (combined) scanners on top of these? I would bet a considerable amount of money that most active explorers would prefer that. And no, not just because they get a "free mid slot". Again, for most exploration fits that mid slot really doesn't matter all that much. It would mostly help low skill players, who can add another array. Maybe some unified fits can become viable that before required switching via a mobile depot. And a few people who now have only a relic analyser fitted will then also be able to access data sites. That's about it. Indeed, you can de facto suppress the "mid slot advantage" by raising the fitting requirements in CPU/PG enough over the straight addition of requirements for the separated module. Though I really don't think that this indirect boost to mostly explorer and covops frigates is overpowered at all. I think a straight up fuse would make sense conceptually (lore-technologically), would acknowledge that there really is only one mini-game to be played here, would be in line with recent CCP tiercide, and importantly would give you much more interesting future options with proper faction gear.
Circumstantial Evidence 307	Posted - 2016.04.29 13:08:52 - [82] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: CCP RedDawn wrote: In the earlier posts I mention that I've increased the Strength values to the same as the Tech I and Tech II variants. I've also updated the initial post. These new analyzers now only have 1 less utility slot, less Coherence and a higher CPU requirement. What is your reasoning for not simply combining current Tech I Data/Relic into one combined scanner, and likewise for Tech II, and then leave room for future faction (combined) scanners on top of these? CCP RedDawn wrote: * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future And so, we just have to hold on to hope that CCP RedDawn eventually gets the go-ahead to add some new variations to the data and relic puzzle mechanics. With the module revisions, I will definitely be interested in them. Same strength, Less coherence ... more risk of losing some loot when taking a bad path, but still gives a fighting chance. Coherence is a good statistic to balance on. For general low and null sites I might stop using the T2 parts. I've lost ships misjudging the superior sleeper cache, we asked for more complication and got it, lol. So I leave that one alone. More loot for someone else ;)
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1496	Posted - 2016.04.29 13:40:12 - [83] - Quote I'm afraid I have to agree with the majority here. Having as much virus strength as possible is my number one priority. I can always use a depot to swap modules, and most covops frigates have plenty of mid-slots and CPU, so long as they do not have an expanded probe launcher fit. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Ransu Asanari V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 497	Posted - 2016.04.29 18:28:20 - [84] - Quote First off, thank you CCP RedDawn for following up on your commitment to improving exploration sites. I can see that you definitely did follow through with looking into ways of making the High-Tech items useful, and I appreciate that. I hope we can continue to see iterations to make Data Sites more profitable, and bring them up to a level where they would be desired to be run at the same rate as Relic sites. Making a Storyline hacking module makes sense to me, as does using the High-Tech items. Now the patchnotes where the High-Tech item drop rate was significantly reduced makes sense. That said, I don't think combining the module in this manner is a good idea. If there are plans to diverge the Data and Relic site minigames even more or improve on them, having the separate modules will make more sense going forward as well. Reducing the effectiveness of the Data/Relic Analyzer by reducing the coherence means you have less capability to run the higher end sites, like the Sleeper Cache sites. We are already taking a reduction in effectiveness by having to fly an Astero or Stratios/T3 to run the Sleeper Cache sites for tank. And that's exactly when you'd need a combined module like this. Personally I wouldn't ever use this module when I can just swap for the T2 modules for max strength and coherence. Instead, can I suggest creating separate Data and Relic Analyzer Storyline modules that have a more "compact" fitting? This would follow along the same Tiercide path as other Storyline items. And as a special ability, if possible, give them an increased range to loot from hacked cans. Right now the modules operate at 5000m or 6000m (I'm not sure why one is lower), but you still have to get within 2500m to loot from a can. Typically I keep at range on a container at 2200m while I hack so I can still cloak if I get dropped on, and I can also loot. Being able to hack and loot at a longer range gives more flexibility in the site to avoid other obstacles that can decloak you, improves quality of life, and makes navigating easier for less experienced explorers. That would make the Storyline modules very desirable, in my opinion.
Ransu Asanari V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 497	Posted - 2016.04.29 18:43:03 - [85] - Quote If you are looking for things we could potentially do for other improvements to Exploration, can I suggest the following: Seprate "Sisters of EVE" or "Society of Concious Thought" Faction Data/Relic Analyzers which have the same Virus Strength as T2, but less coherence, and take more CPU, like you originally proposed. This would give an option to newer players who can pay more for the modules, but haven't trained for the T2 modules yet. Inventable T2 Core Scanner Probes, and T2 Combat Scanner Probes. I'm not sure why the SoE Faction and RSS Storyline versions are the only options for these. Why don't we have a T2 variant for the probes themselves? Midslot "Archaeology" and "Hacking" Arrays which provide additional Virus Coherence. These would be similar to the Scan Acquisition/Rangefinding/Pinpointing Arrays, which use the Spatial Attunement Unit (only in the T2) which drop from Data/Relic Sites. Maybe we can find more uses for them here, and for the High-Tech items? I like that Virus Strength is limited by your skills and the hull, but this might give more interesting choices than always using rigs like Memetic Algorithm Bank and Emission Scope Sharpener to increase coherence, and give the players more choice to have to constantly refit different arrays for different tasks, or be worse at either scanning, hacking data sites, or hacking relic sites. Long Term - Potentially Advanced Archaology and Advanced Hacking skills and modules and sites that require them? The skill tree for this activity does include all of the scanning skills, and tanking skills to run the harder sites like the Gas sites and Sleeper Cache/Ghost sites. The Drifter Wormholes also require a good mix of offensive and defensive skills, as well as hacking. Just something to think about.
Tzar Sinak Mythic Heights 209	Posted - 2016.04.29 18:56:46 - [86] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: If you are looking for things we could potentially do for other improvements to Exploration, can I suggest the following: Seprate "Sisters of EVE" or "Society of Concious Thought" Faction Data/Relic Analyzers which have the same Virus Strength as T2, but less coherence, and take more CPU, like you originally proposed. This would give an option to newer players who can pay more for the modules, but haven't trained for the T2 modules yet. Inventable T2 Core Scanner Probes, and T2 Combat Scanner Probes. I'm not sure why the SoE Faction and RSS Storyline versions are the only options for these. Why don't we have a T2 variant for the probes themselves? Midslot "Archaeology" and "Hacking" Arrays which provide additional Virus Coherence. These would be similar to the Scan Acquisition/Rangefinding/Pinpointing Arrays, which use the Spatial Attunement Unit (only in the T2) which drop from Data/Relic Sites. Maybe we can find more uses for them here, and for the High-Tech items? I like that Virus Strength is limited by your skills and the hull, but this might give more interesting choices than always using rigs like Memetic Algorithm Bank and Emission Scope Sharpener to increase coherence, and give the players more choice to have to constantly refit different arrays for different tasks, or be worse at either scanning, hacking data sites, or hacking relic sites. Long Term - Potentially Advanced Archaology and Advanced Hacking skills and modules and sites that require them? The skill tree for this activity does include all of the scanning skills, and tanking skills to run the harder sites like the Gas sites and Sleeper Cache/Ghost sites. The Drifter Wormholes also require a good mix of offensive and defensive skills, as well as hacking. Just something to think about. Interestingly I was thinking along the same lines. We have scanning mid slot modules now so why not strength/coherence increasing mid slot mods too; computer enhancements for the hacking modules. Now I can choose if I want a relic hunting cepter with a mid slot or two to boost the hacking module or do I want both hacking modules with each being bonused for sleeper caches or some other combination. Or maybe I want to specialize further for a specific goal maximizing strength through skills and modules. Choice, flexibility and game play with site iteration and evolution. Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 80	Posted - 2016.04.30 10:14:25 - [87] - Quote Good idea. ATM i fly interceptor with only T2 Relic Analyzer fitted as i hardly ever sacrifice my warp scrambler for Data Analyzer It would be great if you implement the whole line of faction & storyline (or even dedspace and officer) scanning modules Definitely it would be a matter of risk and choise to fit cheap or very expansive hardware to an exploration boat. Thanks
Gustins Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2016.05.11 09:09:18 - [88] - Quote Sorry if this has already been mentioned.. How about leaving lower stats as described (lower then T1/T2 analyzers), but add scripts that would minimize effects done by defensive subsystems (i.e. reduced virus suppressor coherence or less coherence restored by restoration node etc.)?
Trespasser S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 56	Posted - 2016.05.11 13:25:01 - [89] - Quote Honestly i feel you should just get rid of the "specialized" versions and just replace them with these Multi-use version.
Tzar Sinak Mythic Heights 216	Posted - 2016.05.11 17:42:43 - [90] - Quote Trespasser wrote: Honestly i feel you should just get rid of the "specialized" versions and just replace them with these Multi-use version. There was a time when the "specialized" versions where of serious consequence in exploration. The profession has radically changed since then. While the module tiericide made many improvements and eliminated many modules, removing the "specialized" hacking modules is short sighted. Many of the eliminated modules through tiericide were redundant; there was no additional game play or reasonable choice to be had. Exploration has choice and reasonable game play. I believe the way forward is to expand the content that is dependent upon these modules. Additional meta modules will expand choice of how this content can be tackled. With the perspective of time, the efforts that were made to make scanning easier has made this profession's sandbox smaller and much less lucrative. It has become a simple beginners profession. Those of us that were dedicated explorers from 8 or more years ago have either moved on to other things, do it for relaxation or focused on combat exploration. Food for though, combat exploration has not been iterated on since its introduction. Sleeper sites were a welcome breath of fresh air. Iteration is the key to prosperity now. Not the removal of profession based modules. Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!


CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 767	Posted - 2016.05.12 12:03:45 - [91] - Quote Hi all After increasing the Strength of both of these multi analyzer to match their tech I & II variants, (which is a large buff), I'm lowering their utility element slots down to 1 on each. (decreased from 2) This means that for choosing dual functionality with the same strength, you'll have to be a bit more tactile when it comes to your element usage. The multi analyzers still retain an increased CPU requirement and 10 points less in Coherence. (And obviously the building costs) As for module scripts, they have been talked about a lot internally and this is not however how we want to go with exploration at this very time. In addition, both of these multi analyzers will be available for you to play around with next week on Singularity. Team Astro Sparkle

Circumstantial Evidence 309	Posted - 2016.05.12 12:44:34 - [92] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: After increasing the Strength of both of these multi analyzer to match their tech I & II variants, (which is a large buff), I'm lowering their utility element slots down to 1 on each. (decreased from 2) Ouch, from 2 slots to 1. OK. Since strength is the key stat most aim for, making the T2 matched variant the go-to part for skilled players, what about giving the T1 variant 2 utility slots? Then the difference between the two is not just virus strength and ease of fitting. Someone able to fit the T2 variant, might choose the T1 variant for less complex site types, in order to have a bit more flexibility when activating utilities.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 568	Posted - 2016.05.12 14:31:49 - [93] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi all After increasing the Strength of both of these multi analyzer to match their tech I & II variants, (which is a large buff), I'm lowering their utility element slots down to 1 on each. (decreased from 2) This means that for choosing dual functionality with the same strength, you'll have to be a bit more tactile when it comes to your element usage. The multi analyzers still retain an increased CPU requirement and 10 points less in Coherence. (And obviously the building costs) As for module scripts, they have been talked about a lot internally and this is not however how we want to go with exploration at this very time. In addition, both of these multi analyzers will be available for you to play around with next week on Singularity. 10 point less in coherence is not enough I think. It may be easily replaced by hardwire implants (worth 60 mil total). If such module will hit TQ I will never use T2s. Reducing utility slots to 1 is interesting change, it will be fun module to use. So -15 coherence and we done here. The manufacturing materiales amount stays the same? 1000 of each for better version? I am the 85%

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 773	Posted - 2016.05.12 14:40:41 - [94] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi all After increasing the Strength of both of these multi analyzer to match their tech I & II variants, (which is a large buff), I'm lowering their utility element slots down to 1 on each. (decreased from 2) This means that for choosing dual functionality with the same strength, you'll have to be a bit more tactile when it comes to your element usage. The multi analyzers still retain an increased CPU requirement and 10 points less in Coherence. (And obviously the building costs) As for module scripts, they have been talked about a lot internally and this is not however how we want to go with exploration at this very time. In addition, both of these multi analyzers will be available for you to play around with next week on Singularity. 10 point less in coherence is not enough I think. It may be easily replaced by hardwire implants (worth 60 mil total). If such module will hit TQ I will never use T2s. Reducing utility slots to 1 is interesting change, it will be fun module to use. So -15 coherence and we done here. The manufacturing materiales amount stays the same? 1000 of each for better version? Yeah I'm going to keep the materials the same for now. Let's see what the additional feedback from Singularity is before updating the Coherence, and/or the materials. Team Astro Sparkle

elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1195	Posted - 2016.05.12 14:41:41 - [95] - Quote I hope there are some signatures to probe somewhere and maybe you can poke someone to remove a "few" citadels while you are at it? Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Circumstantial Evidence 309	Posted - 2016.05.12 15:21:34 - [96] - Quote Another reason I would advocate giving the T1 version 2 utility slots, even though it may still be less desirable than T2 for those who are skilled for that version, is to give the T1 variant something like a role, a goal of the ongoing tier-a-cide. Another idea: what if the utility slots could only hold a utility "in memory" for a certain number of moves? That way you could keep two or three slots, but what they hold would decay at different rates, depending on the module. T1 might expire the last loaded utility after 3 moves, T2 might permit 4 moves before forgetting a utility.

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 773	Posted - 2016.05.12 16:28:04 - [97] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Another reason I would advocate giving the T1 version 2 utility slots, even though it may still be less desirable than T2 for those who are skilled for that version, is to give the T1 variant something like a role, a goal of the ongoing tier-a-cide. Another idea: what if the utility slots could only hold a utility "in memory" for a certain number of moves? That way you could keep two or three slots, but what they hold would decay at different rates, depending on the module. T1 might expire the last loaded utility after 3 moves, T2 might permit 4 moves before forgetting a utility. During the initial designs of the hacking game, we created a defensive subsystem that when left alone for a certain amount of turns, would negate all of your collected and non collected elements. Sounds like it's in the similar vein as what you're saying and this is something I'd still like to do. Team Astro Sparkle

Bienator II madmen of the skies 3522	Posted - 2016.05.12 19:43:48 - [98] - Quote unrelated to the OP but i always thought it would be a cool idea to be able to overheat hacking mods. That would increase the hacking dps (or whatever the name of that is). back on topic: i never understood why there where different mods for data and relic sites, game mechanics wise they are identical, the only difference are assets and loot drop. (i already said that in the feedback thread back when the hacking was redesigned) the only argument for that is fitting space, you have to decide what you take with you or refit with a depot or fit both and lose some other mod. Not sure if it is a good enough argument however. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
David Tellier Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2016.05.12 20:11:26 - [99] - Quote To be honest, I have a profound dislike over the minigame itself. There is nothing more frustrating than hitting 3 Supressors nodes in a row with T1 modules. I usually just cancel the attempt altogether. I would definitely revisit the 13 days training time for T2 analyzers. The fact that exploration is something that is often suggested to newbies as a starting way to make ISK is also kind of silly. If the first thing I had done in EVE was hacking, I don't think I would still be playing today.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2459	Posted - 2016.05.13 14:06:43 - [100] - Quote Interesting tweak with the slots, still think it will be a niche product. I don't want to sacrifice efficiency on relic sites just to be able to also run data sites. I'm my own NPC alt.

Erin Oswell Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 37	Posted - 2016.05.13 23:05:55 - [101] - Quote I really like the idea of a scripted analyzer. Something like this might work (based on some of the suggestions) as the player will be able to choose what they want to gain and what they're willing to trade-off; making the hacking game can be more dynamic as opposed to just clicking. Signal Amplifier; Applies a 20% range bonus to the range of your analyzer. Utility Buffer; Adds an extra utility slot when turned on. Brute Force Kernel; Increases the effectiveness of offensive utilities at the cost of increased capacitor & CPU usage. Rules of Acquisition #13: "Anything worth doing is worth doing for money"
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 525	Posted - 2016.05.18 17:50:25 - [102] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Looking through this thread, I'm going to up the Virus Strength of these modules to match their Tech I & II counterparts whilst keeping the other stats the same. So now the: GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 20 (from 15) & GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer will have a Virus Strength of 30 (from 20) So both still have a slightly lower Coherence (10 for each) and 1 less Utility slot, but the same Strength. (All other stats remain the same as the Tech I & II variants) Do these look slightly more desirable to you now? I was just going to suggest keeping the virus strength and lowering the coherence instead. I'm not so bothered about coherence but strength is very important. Now they just need to be affordable enough to actually use in PvP as I expect a lot of the situations in which an extra mid slot would be useful would be in combat situations. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Ransu Asanari V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 501	Posted - 2016.05.18 19:58:29 - [103] - Quote Screenshots from Singularity: http://imgur.com/7731wqU Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4jwj4o/new_dual_purpose_hacking_modules_on_sisi/ I'm still rather dubious on this item. I personally don't see the value, and won't be using it. Changing the amount of utility slots is a clever way of distinguishing it from the T2 ones. That would be enough, but the less coherence is a dealbreaker for me. I have run into way too many hacking games, where I end up with exactly 30 points left to finish a red core, and only having 20 coherence left would mean I'd fail the hack.
Risingson 99	Posted - 2016.05.18 20:55:39 - [104] - Quote i would prefer content
Saile Litestrider Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 60	Posted - 2016.05.18 23:25:53 - [105] - Quote I think most numbers tweaks will just push this module back and forth between "redundant" and "must-have" for most people. What I personally think would be a better drawback would be to drastically lower the optimal range, such that you have to be too close to the can while hacking to be able to immediately cloak up. This would inject a little more risk in the act of hacking, rather than the minigame itself.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.05.18 23:46:57 - [106] - Quote If these aren't out of Test and in game by next patch, I will be very, very cross. Just sayin'. Cheers, Jurius Doctor P.S. BPOs P.P.S. It's Bait. It's always Bait.
Luscius Uta Anomalous Existence Low-Class 213	Posted - 2016.05.19 06:33:51 - [107] - Quote Are emission scope sharpeners and memetic algorithm banks going to affect those mdules? Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7702	Posted - 2016.05.19 09:53:47 - [108] - Quote This idea would have been great before the SoE ships, when we were fitting regular T1 hulls for exploration and back when exploration sites were also combat sites and shield-tanked ships took a hit on tank from having to fit two modules. Now? I don't know. I'd say, go for broke and have a single module that takes a script governing data and arch sites, but with the same costs. I would also note that those things we picked up in the sites, the little "wrenches" and other such things, I recall a mention that we would be able to keep those from hack to hack, like a consumable. So where it up to meGäó it would have been more interesting to have a scripted module that can do either, but "consumes" Self Repair, Kernel Rot, etc. and has to be loaded like ammo. Exploration would have a side market in these items as well. Still nice to see a mid slot get free'd up. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 583	Posted - 2016.05.20 08:34:28 - [109] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: Changing the amount of utility slots is a clever way of distinguishing it from the T2 ones. That would be enough, but the less coherence is still disappointing. I have run into way too many hacking games, where I end up with exactly 30 points left to finish a red core, and only having 20 coherence left would mean I'd fail the hack. I suppose it's not that bad since you can increase coherence with implants. It's intentional. Why anybody would use T2 modules if merged has same stats? Ransu Asanari wrote: I'll have to take a look at it on SiSi and see how the fitting works out. I find it odd that most tiercided Storyline items have a reduced fitting cost - usually similar to the fitting on a Compact module, but with slightly better stats. This seems to be going a different way by having increased CPU cost. That seems rather confusing from a consistency standpoint. Comparison would make sense if we have merged T2 modules. It's completely new modules, you can't compare them to T2 fittings costs. Luscius Uta wrote: Are emission scope sharpeners and memetic algorithm banks going to affect those mdules? That's a good question. We already have nulli ceptors cancer. I don't think we need buff them more. I am the 85%
Excellent CEO Bold and Beautiful 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 10:58:58 - [110] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: It's intentional. Why anybody would use T2 modules if merged has same stats? Because of cost???? Why shouldn't the cost be prohibitive as to make them an end-game explo module while making the stats great over T2?

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 583	Posted - 2016.05.20 11:06:17 - [111] - Quote Excellent CEO wrote: Quote: It's intentional. Why anybody would use T2 modules if merged has same stats? Because of cost???? and how much should they cost to be "proper balanced by cost?"? Please tell how balanced is Rattlesnake compared to SNI? Cost can't be taken solely when balancing items. I am the 85%
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2511	Posted - 2016.05.20 11:21:52 - [112] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Excellent CEO wrote: Quote: It's intentional. Why anybody would use T2 modules if merged has same stats? Because of cost???? and how much should they cost to be "proper balanced by cost?"? Please tell how balanced is Rattlesnake compared to SNI? Cost can't be taken solely when balancing items. Why would you keep the individual hackers if you could just combine them into one module? CCP is not willing to differentiate the hacking minigame anyways, so we do not need 2 different hackers in the first place. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 583	Posted - 2016.05.20 11:29:50 - [113] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Why would you keep the individual hackers if you could just combine them into one module? CCP is not willing to differentiate the hacking minigame anyways, so we do not need 2 different hackers in the first place. That's why: CCP RedDawn wrote: * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future I am the 85%
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 454	Posted - 2016.05.20 14:44:05 - [114] - Quote Personally, as neat as this idea at first sounded, I'll probably only use those special snowflake modules on some special snowflake HighSec ship. Maybe even in LowSec, I dunno. Most of the time however I'd prefer the specialized T2-modules and a mobile depot. As long as mobile depots exists, dual hacking modules are kind of redundant, I think. I'm also kind of torn on the reduction to a single utility-slot. On the one hand, going from 3 to just 1 slot seems stifling, but on the other hand nothing forces you from picking up a special thing from your hacking-map, it's not like they will just disappear after a while, right? In most cases, you can just let useful stuff lying around until needed.
Arsine Mayhem Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 406	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:13:27 - [115] - Quote Pretty sure losing 20 Virus Coherence comparatively, T1 vs Ligature, and T2 vs Zeugma isn't worth the extra slot. If you bother to explore at all I wouldn't waste time on a failure. But then I quit exploring with the invent of the "MINIGAME". I'll keep my wrist thank you.
Arsine Mayhem Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 406	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:19:08 - [116] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Excellent CEO wrote: Quote: It's intentional. Why anybody would use T2 modules if merged has same stats? Because of cost???? and how much should they cost to be "proper balanced by cost?"? Please tell how balanced is Rattlesnake compared to SNI? Cost can't be taken solely when balancing items. Why would you keep the individual hackers if you could just combine them into one module? CCP is not willing to differentiate the hacking minigame anyways, so we do not need 2 different hackers in the first place. It's only to give you more skills to spend sp on.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2511	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:44:05 - [117] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Why would you keep the individual hackers if you could just combine them into one module? CCP is not willing to differentiate the hacking minigame anyways, so we do not need 2 different hackers in the first place. That's why: CCP RedDawn wrote: * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future I believe that only when I see it. However, if more variety is on the horizon, the combination of the hacker makes no sense either. Or in other words: If there are 2 highly different hacking minigames but they can still be accessed with the combined hacker, 2 individual modules still do not make sense. So, get rid of the module clutter and be done with it. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2836	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:55:32 - [118] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Why would you keep the individual hackers if you could just combine them into one module? CCP is not willing to differentiate the hacking minigame anyways, so we do not need 2 different hackers in the first place. That's why: CCP RedDawn wrote: * In regards to the overall combination of both data and relic sites, I'd much rather introduce a higher level of variance to both of the hacking variations overall than combine them together. The hacking game itself has so much more depth potential which I wish to revisit in the future What module interact with the can has no meaning to what the actual "hack" will be tho so they could make both hacking method different while also having just 1 type of module to trigger the minigame no matter which one it is. I'm pretty sure the depth won't come from module having different stats and all the module does anyway is cycle and provide base stats for the hack.
Tsukino Stareine Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 1459	Posted - 2016.05.24 10:04:15 - [119] - Quote I don't understand the need for two different kinds of container in the first place. Can't we just remove archaeology as a whole and have only data containers/hackables? Obviously keep the loot separate (buff data sites though!) It's not like they provide any different kind of gameplay apart from forcing an exploration ship to give up 1 mid or having to refit off a depot.
Tzar Sinak Mythic Heights 223	Posted - 2016.05.24 18:03:43 - [120] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: I don't understand the need for two different kinds of container in the first place. Can't we just remove archaeology as a whole and have only data containers/hackables? Obviously keep the loot separate (buff data sites though!) It's not like they provide any different kind of gameplay apart from forcing an exploration ship to give up 1 mid or having to refit off a depot. Once upon a time you needed different scan probes base of the type of signature you were interested in. Since Odyssey the entire profession has been streamlined and simplified. This has been both good and bad. The barrier for entry is now time (training) and practice (experience to scan and hack). Unfortunately what was once a lucrative dedicated career has become a noobie profession that has crashed the market. Unfortunately ghost sites, besieged sites and sleeper cache sites simply have not made up for the changes. Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!

Dadunar Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 4	Posted - 2016.05.24 23:12:37 - [121] - Quote Now if only data sites were worth doing.
Excellent CEO Bold and Beautiful 0	Posted - 2016.05.25 15:43:33 - [122] - Quote Dadunar wrote: Now if only data sites were worth doing. This so much. Also why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3?
Darkwing Fiftytwo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2016.05.27 13:21:22 - [123] - Quote Stats look lacklustre on the released items. If they are going to be rare you might as well make them as powerful as a T1 & T2 regular analyzer but obviously you can hack both sites. Then they will garner a lot more value and be "rare" and valued. Agreed until data sites are lucrative again they will just be ignored.
Slarti bartslower Omniclan 0	Posted - 2016.06.01 03:19:36 - [124] - Quote "GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range6000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence 40 Virus Strength30 Virus Utility Element Slots1 Tech Level2 CPU usage30 To manufacture these modules, you will require the following: GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000" Performance wise... Sacrifice 2 virus utility slots and 20 virus coherence for an extra mid slot on a ship that you are using for exploration. Manufacture... Loving the 5 day moving average for the price of the high-tech trade goods you have listed. Does anything else out there require 1,000 units of high-tech goods? I admire the notion, but this item has far to little upside and you have built it on the back of a (previously) low volume trade good. Result: as is, these BPCs will likely never get built. They'll be fun to watch in contract auctions for a day or two though.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2570	Posted - 2016.06.01 04:23:53 - [125] - Quote I got one of the BPC's this evening, but I don't see the point in using it unless it is as good as the T2 variant. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 11377	Posted - 2016.06.01 08:37:22 - [126] - Quote Its for people that run a lot of easy relic and data sites and current sites are for them so easy it is ridiculous. Smaller vessels, mainly using microwarpdrives that could use a one more capacitor booster. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Planetary Interaction 2.1
Scuzzy Logic Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2016.06.01 12:55:55 - [127] - Quote Why not make them scriptable and just as good as their T2 counterparts, BUT have the scripts / ammunition they use be depleteable, bulky and also dropped from data sites in high sec? The modules would drop from low/nullsec. Hell, let's put special faction ammo in WH data sites and we've got a fun novelty product! It would create an honest dilemma between cargo space, expense of the ammo and fitting requirements. Also, a much needed buff to data sites. On a completely different slate, can the Echelon get a high slot, pretty please?
Scuzzy Logic Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2016.06.01 12:58:39 - [128] - Quote Excellent CEO wrote: Dadunar wrote: Now if only data sites were worth doing. This so much. Also why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3? I know, right? Mobile depots made this module so redundant it's not even funny...
Scuzzy Logic Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2016.06.01 13:03:05 - [129] - Quote Saile Litestrider wrote: I think most numbers tweaks will just push this module back and forth between "redundant" and "must-have" for most people. What I personally think would be a more interesting drawback would be to drastically lower the optimal range, such that you have to be too close to the can while hacking to be able to immediately cloak up. This would inject a little more risk in the act of hacking, rather than the minigame itself. I agree with this. Make it the same as both T2s combined,, but nerf the optimal range to death. (80+% reduction) Would make the purloined Sansha codebreaker all the more impressive!
Moah Incogn1tus 0	Posted - 2016.06.02 08:11:43 - [130] - Quote Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s...

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 605	Posted - 2016.06.02 08:23:40 - [131] - Quote Moah wrote: Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s... So they didn't change it? Last time I checked them on Sisi they were better than T2. I am the 85%
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 11394	Posted - 2016.06.02 08:25:19 - [132] - Quote So ligature only provides functionality and zeugma is like the tech II wariant of a ligature itr seems. I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Darkwing Fiftytwo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2016.06.02 19:55:46 - [133] - Quote I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites. This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites. Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Eventually they could likely increase the drop rates back up a bit once things get balanced. Whether or not this was the intended effect is still up in the air.
A'lan Wolf Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.06.03 01:42:06 - [134] - Quote Just got one of these blueprints 5 minutes ago..the "Ligature" one, with a run of 3 on it...no prices on the market yet..will have to wait to see the price..the components are going to be fun finding too
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2528	Posted - 2016.06.03 07:19:44 - [135] - Quote Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites. This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites. Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull? UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 11410	Posted - 2016.06.03 09:40:24 - [136] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites. This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites. Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull? Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true worth. I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Darkwing Fiftytwo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2016.06.03 14:47:54 - [137] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: I hope you clowns realize that by CCP increasing the value of the "High-Tech" Items (from originally worthless), via reduced drop rate and actual usage in BPC's is in itself increasing the value of data sites. This will function to balance the value between the two data/relic sites. Which in turn will actually make capsuleers want to equip a single mid module to hack both sets of sites. Not sure who the clown is on the last page, but only clowns would fit a module to their ship that offers lower virus survivability than T1/2, offers lower attack capability than T1/2 and puts your tool capabilities at high risk of losing them because you can only store one in your hacker while every additionally uncovered node runs the risk of blocking vital assistance tools. All this combined reduces your success chances to hack a site by a lot and thus removes a lot of potential demand for these modules. Now, some people will again say these modules are great for the very easy high sec sites. This begs one question: fitting a double/tripple digit million ISK module to an exploration frigate/astero for high sec sites? Really? Where it takes a ludicrously large number of sites to even recover the value of the ship hull? I agree, I actually earlier posted the stats are lacklustre, I bet they get bumped a bit.
Steluna de Chasteux Acme Entropy 6	Posted - 2016.06.03 18:39:22 - [138] - Quote Moah wrote: Is it intentional that the released 'Zeugma' Analyzer is now better than the T2 variants? From the dev posts I thought they were supposed to be slightly worse than the T2s... The Zeugma has 20pts less virus coherence and only one utility slot compared to the t2 variants, and the Ligature the same compared to its t1. How is this better? For any explorer working difficult sites (Jspace/ null/ ghost sites), the 20pt compromise is not worth the gain of one midslot, especially since the spike in prices for the required materiel has made the module ridiculously expensive. That materiel is also not that common, in my experience averaging a few units per site. It's very telling that these new modules are still rare on the market (not a single one yet put up for sale in my usual hub-regions) From a performance perspective, these modules might have been useful for hi and losec explorers, but certainly not at current market prices. In my opinion, CCP needs to significantly reduce the material build requirements, or heavily boost the drop rates thereof.
Steluna de Chasteux Acme Entropy 6	Posted - 2016.06.03 20:04:23 - [139] - Quote Excellent CEO wrote: ... why not increase the volume of the regular analyzers and hacking modules to discourage swapping to like 100m3 from 5m3? Having to make and fly to a safe to deploy a cargohold-hog of a mobile depot in order to swap out the modules is not discouragement enough?)
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 605	Posted - 2016.06.04 08:43:13 - [140] - Quote Steluna de Chasteux wrote: The Zeugma has 20pts less virus coherence and only one utility slot compared to the t2 variants, and the Ligature the same compared to its t1. How is this better? because on Sisi release it was better than T2. T2 has 120 coherence, zeugma 140. I don't have it on Tranq so can't compare yet. I am the 85%

Skadoos Tragedians 0	Posted - 2016.06.06 08:06:13 - [141] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value. The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component. Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.06 09:07:13 - [142] - Quote Skadoos wrote: The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component. Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requiremens by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate. The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value. I am the 85%
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 12060	Posted - 2016.06.06 09:08:47 - [143] - Quote Skadoos wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value. The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component. Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate. Or make data sites drop more of them. One more thing is how popular they will be and how much of those Data Chips is generated, but they dont end on market because they are unpopular. Some people may just collect them and not sell, can trash them or dont loot them or even jettison them as trash not worth much. This thread gives some insight into this issue. I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Skadoos Tragedians 0	Posted - 2016.06.06 10:08:38 - [144] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value. It would increase the lower bound on the value of data sites a bit but there are lots of other factors that make data sites worthless in general. Red cans in null data sites are regularly empty of loot. Encryption and rigging skill books are worthless, same as 10m-¦ stacks of parts. Faction POS towers and modules are obsolete. Obscure faction materials such as Trigger Mechanisms or the rare item that does have value can only be sold for a reasonable price by babysitting a sell order or contract in Jita for weeks, i.e. by means that are orthogonal to exploration. There need to be reasons for running data sites other than collecting materials to build a module for running data sites, otherwise it's a wheel in the machine not connected to anything.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.08 18:24:35 - [145] - Quote I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c. Bug or intentional? I am the 85%
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6018	Posted - 2016.06.08 18:37:43 - [146] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c. Bug or intentional? Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same? Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.08 18:44:55 - [147] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same? yes but I have better implants for data hacking. I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence. I am the 85%
Darkwing Fiftytwo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 12	Posted - 2016.06.10 16:45:09 - [148] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same? yes but I have better implants for data hacking. I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence. So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.10 20:04:23 - [149] - Quote Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2 I have no idea what's behind this. RedDawn is silent lately. It's not what we have in OP. I am the 85%
Skyler Hawk The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 77	Posted - 2016.06.11 11:29:46 - [150] - Quote Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same? yes but I have better implants for data hacking. I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence. So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2 Given that it costs around 300m to build a zeugma at current prices, it kind of needs to be substantially better than T2 if it's to be used at all.

Sapheni Black Moon Mining 18	Posted - 2016.06.12 11:38:35 - [151] - Quote Do Emission Scope Sharpener rigs affect these modules? Technically the modules are classed as data analysers so rigs for relic analysers shouldn't affect them... but thought I'd ask.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.12 13:46:03 - [152] - Quote Sapheni wrote: Do Emission Scope Sharpener rigs affect these modules? Both versions T1 and T2 hacking rigs works with them and stack with each other. I am the 85%
Sapheni Black Moon Mining 18	Posted - 2016.06.12 18:18:17 - [153] - Quote Interesting. Thanks. Tempted to get one now, although they're still a bit pricey. If only I hadn't left all those High Tech items behind in the past...
Darkwing Fiftytwo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 12	Posted - 2016.07.05 12:41:42 - [154] - Quote If there aren't plans for "High-Tech Small Arms" usage can CCP convert them into the other three High-Tech items, maybe you get 0.333 of each per high-tech small arms, help with the supply of those other 3 and create a bit of value for those iteams
mana waikato Tekiya 0	Posted - 2016.07.22 12:37:05 - [155] - Quote Great idea ... but for a unit that doesn't do the job as well as a stand alone product with an insane price attached .. of course an extra mid slot is a very handy thing indeed but at that price i will stick with my mobile depot and the variables that makes available for me .. or simple use a purpose fit T2 .. that price is insane ... when i have accumulated enough resources i will simply build my runs and hopefully someone unlike me will be willing to pay an insane price for this product and that extra mid slot ... which is a very handy thing indeed pre orders are accepted please send isk to 'i love my extra slot c/o- isk means nothing to me 56430
Darkwing Fiftytwo Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 14	Posted - 2016.07.22 16:52:46 - [156] - Quote mana waikato wrote: Great idea ... but for a unit that doesn't do the job as well as a stand alone product with an insane price attached .. of course an extra mid slot is a very handy thing indeed but at that price i will stick with my mobile depot and the variables that makes available for me .. or simple use a purpose fit T2 .. that price is insane ... when i have accumulated enough resources i will simply build my runs and hopefully someone unlike me will be willing to pay an insane price for this product and that extra mid slot ... which is a very handy thing indeed pre orders are accepted please send isk to 'i love my extra slot c/o- isk means nothing to me 56430 I think someone figured out that they are better than T2, because you get bonus' for both skills into the one module. (even if you are just hacking say data sites, the relic bonus' to the module still apply or whatever"
Nya Kittenheart Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.07.23 20:28:58 - [157] - Quote Too expensive atm as an hybrid between two modulesto find a real usage,you cant really avoid losing a ship from time to time to happy go lucky exploration trips.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2711	Posted - 2016.07.24 15:38:36 - [158] - Quote Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss? I'm my own NPC alt.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6116	Posted - 2016.07.24 17:38:16 - [159] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss? Uh, The players who decide it's not worth buying at a price which would make it buildable at a profit? Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2711	Posted - 2016.07.24 18:01:18 - [160] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss? Uh, The players who decide it's not worth buying at a price which would make it buildable at a profit? This is not the full truth in this case, because CCP set a very high (too high) base price by defining the material requirements. Hence the price is artificially floored and disconnected from the rarity of the find (of the BPC), with the result that the BPC is basically worthless. Similar thing is happening with the Serpentis capitals. Other expensive stuff like the Mordus ship line has (purposefully I suppose) trivial production costs, and the price is mainly defined by supply and demand of the BPC (the actual rare find). I'm my own NPC alt.

Sergey Hawk The Sith Syndicate REFORD 121	Posted - 2016.07.25 18:34:23 - [161] - Quote The GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ analyzer is too weak for its price. So let's change this analyzer name to 'Nepotrib' GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ quite interesting analyzer. But for it's price this analyzer must have at least same stats as in analyzers tech 2 and same numbers of utility slot. Quote: Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000 Seriously, CCP? Seriously? I need 2 analyzers. It's 660M isk. Considering that from Data sites falls only one or two components for manufacturing, I will need to spend several years to gather that all components. Simple math: 3 Data sites per day. So after one year i will have around 730 of each type of required components but only if i will be lucky and each site drops 2 components at once. If i will be lucky after 1,5 year i can manufacture my first!!!! analyzer! Awesome! So or improve stats for analyzer to justify price, or reduce required components, or rebalance data sites for better drop of necessary components. Lauda about CCP New camera: It's a sh.tbox! It zooms like crazy and centering before rotation is a disaster. It's amazing - all these dev teams, and you make a piece of crap like this.
Sergey Hawk The Sith Syndicate REFORD 121	Posted - 2016.07.26 11:04:18 - [162] - Quote My simple calculations suitable only for residents of 0.0 space and WH. I run 10 data sites in high and low sec and get nothing for analyzer manufacturing. So 1,5 year for manufacturing one GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ is too optimistic. Lauda about CCP New camera: It's a sh.tbox! It zooms like crazy and centering before rotation is a disaster. It's amazing - all these dev teams, and you make a piece of crap like this.

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 791	Posted - 2016.08.10 11:50:21 - [163] - Quote Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn Team Astro Sparkle

Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 456	Posted - 2016.08.10 12:51:07 - [164] - Quote I'm OK with this, as long as the virus strength isn't suffering. Now I'm even thinking about using one of these things for some harmless HighSec/LowSec-fun.
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 544	Posted - 2016.08.11 12:04:38 - [165] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn That's going to be unfortunate for folks who have already built them, but considering how horribly over-priced they were compared to everything else, it'll be good for their use as a whole. Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections. Once you've made your choice, join the *EvE-Scout* channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 148	Posted - 2016.08.11 12:34:05 - [166] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. It appears the thinking behind this is something like "the price is 10 times too high, so we reduce the materials by a factor of 10, and the price will be right." That of course completely ignores that the price for the specific materials went through the roof because of these modules. Where the new price will go is anybody's guess... but it's probably not going to be a linear price change. It is however still not too late to do the right thing: abandon separate analysers altogether, turn these two combined analysers into the new basic T1/T2 units, and then build a line of faction modules with better/different stats. There is no good reason why there should be separate analysers for the same mini-game, just because the site is of a different class. If different sites had different mini-games, that would make sense. But as is, anything but a combined scanner is conceptually silly. Furthermore, as is you need to differentiate the single from the combined analysers, and you do that by making the combined ones worse in analysing stats. This means the combined ones will only ever get niche usage. A mid slot is not so important for a professional explorer in a scan boat. If I run both data and relic in the first place (rather than just relic), then the analysing stats are more important than a bit more shield, or even a bit more scanning power. These combined analysers are pretty much "whatever" for people who actually do a lot of analysing. That won't change even if the price for them drops by a factor of 10. Turn them into the basic modules and let's have some cool faction analysers. Please. (Conversion would be easy, just turn every single analyser and their blueprints into the corresponding combined ones.)
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3510	Posted - 2016.08.11 13:11:41 - [167] - Quote Winter Archipelago wrote: That's going to be unfortunate for folks who have already built them, but considering how horribly over-priced they were compared to everything else, it'll be good for their use as a whole. Easily fixed by adding a 0 to how many of them people who already have the modules own. To Tristan. Consider how many BPC are out there for the modules already. And the fact that the coherence is still going to be superior to a T2 on both, and the Zeg has the same virus strength I'm not sure how these are 'weaker' than the T2 modules. Or are you another person who hasn't realised that the Faction analysers get bonuses from both skills, so +100 at max skill to coherence. Rather than only +50. But yea, considering all that it's just as likely that the value of those materials will increase even more because the supply/demand ratio for these modules will actually rise, even with the supply increased in such a dramatic manner, since the price will be something a lot more people will consider. Economics of scale. Not that I'm against the idea of all analysers being combined. And the virus strength difference in them basically makes anything but T2/Zeg useless because of how virus strength & 'combat' works. So the range could certainly use improvement. But your arguments against this change don't hold a drop of water.
Darkwing Fiftytwo Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 17	Posted - 2016.08.11 16:36:52 - [168] - Quote Seems like an aggressive pricing slam. 1/10th? Why not drop it by 25% or 50%, see how it goes then drop it some more. Also will you be adding other item usages for the high-tech items? High-tech small arms still in limbo. If you are then this makes sense since there will be other uses for the same items. Their increase in value has likely helped increase the value of data sites a bit.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 2051	Posted - 2016.08.11 17:51:59 - [169] - Quote Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote: Why not drop it by 25% or 50%, see how it goes then drop it some more. I'm sorry when was the last time CCP actually followed through on their "baby steps adjustements"? I love CCP devs but you gotta admit, it's not their forte to schedule a revision pass on what's already been "rebalanced". Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Steluna de Chasteux Acme Entropy 7	Posted - 2016.08.11 18:31:58 - [170] - Quote Will those of us who spent enormous amounts of time and/or ISK to produce these be refunded the difference in materials? Not that that will mean much if the prices crash, but man was it every a lot of work to build even one unit... CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn

Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 636	Posted - 2016.08.11 19:30:11 - [171] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn So what about the people who already built them? Also you realise the price has risen due to people investing in the materials for the module hence pushing the price up. Ie it is probably just a temporary bubble. Altering build costs such a short time after releasing the modules just because you don't like how the markets have reacted is NOT the way to start doing things unless you want to lose customers fast. This is advertised a player driven sandbox after all. You should wait at least one year and see how things settle down and then make small adjustments if necessary. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Dr Pipper Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.08.11 22:25:03 - [172] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn So what about the people who already built them? Also you realise the price has risen due to people investing in the materials for the module hence pushing the price up. Ie it is probably just a temporary bubble. Altering build costs such a short time after releasing the modules just because you don't like how the markets have reacted is NOT the way to start doing things unless you want to lose customers fast. This is advertised a player driven sandbox after all. You should wait at least one year and see how things settle down and then make small adjustments if necessary. I disagree with pretty much everything you said, except your implication (I believe) that those who already built a module(s) should be compensated. I agree with that, even though i'm not in that group. I don't think the price increase in those mats is a temporary bubble. I admit I dont know what else those mats where used for prior to these new modules, but clearly they had little value. Now they do and the market reflects the transition from worthless to useful. Heck, if anything these mats may get more expensive when less are required, with sellers of these mats wanting to "Split the difference" in the new potential profit margin of building and selling these mods. The market will work it out. As for waiting a year. That would be crazy, and I agree completely with the proposed changes as is. The fact is, regardless of going market rate for the mats, this mod took waaaay too many of them to build. Unless there is a location in Eve I am unaware of, where these things drop like Ward Consoles, I would have to call these mats rare. In null, I probably average 1 mat per site (Some 0, some 1, some 2). As long as the drop rate stays the same and the mod requirements stay the same, this will always be a 300m+ mod. So no, CCP made a mistake on this one and it needs to be corrected as proposed right now!
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 298	Posted - 2016.09.28 20:32:28 - [173] - Quote @CCP RedDawn Thanks RedDawn. Finally these items have a purpose and some value. But what about "High-Tech Small Arms"? Are there any ideas to give them a use, too? Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
PopeUrban El Expedicion Flames of Exile 111	Posted - 2016.09.29 01:32:01 - [174] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: CCP RedDawn wrote: For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. It appears the thinking behind this is something like "the price is 10 times too high, so we reduce the materials by a factor of 10, and the price will be right." That of course completely ignores that the price for the specific materials went through the roof because of these modules. Where the new price will go is anybody's guess... but it's probably not going to be a linear price change. It is however still not too late to do the right thing: abandon separate analysers altogether, turn these two combined analysers into the new basic T1/T2 units, and then build a line of faction modules with better/different stats. There is no good reason why there should be separate analysers for the same mini-game, just because the site is of a different class. If different sites had different mini-games, that would make sense. But as is, anything but a combined scanner is conceptually silly. Furthermore, as is you need to differentiate the single from the combined analysers, and you do that by making the combined ones worse in analysing stats. This means the combined ones will only ever get niche usage. A mid slot is not so important for a professional explorer in a scan boat. If I run both data and relic in the first place (rather than just relic), then the analysing stats are more important than a bit more shield, or even a bit more scanning power. These combined analysers are pretty much "whatever" for people who actually do a lot of analysing. That won't change even if the price for them drops by a factor of 10. Turn them into the basic modules and let's have some cool faction analysers. Please. (Conversion would be easy, just turn every single analyser and their blueprints into the corresponding combined ones.) This. There is literally no up side to using these modules. If you have a hacking module equipped, you're pretty much guaranteed to either be specialty fit for one site (in which case you wouldn't need the duo) or omni fit for both (in which case your rigs and overall fitting costs on the ship are already effectively penalizing your ability to specialize) What is an extra mid slot going to do for an exploration fit? Even with an Astero, you're either fitting for hacking one thing, both things, or not at all. The combat scanning hybrid fits don't benefit because they're not fitted for hacking anyway. Hacking fits don't benefit because they don't need extra scan resolution, tank, or anything you can put in a low. You'd be far better off to just take this suggestion, merge the hacking modules in to one for all tiers, and have variants with tradeoffs for fitting costs, virus strength versus coherance, range, or even minigame specific boosts like x% chance of finding repair nodes or something. I do a lot of sites, and literally nothing about these modules is remotely interesting, even if the price dropped significantly. Nobody is hacking sites in a fit that is not built specifically for hacking sites because hacking ships are so cheap and cloak tanked.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2708	Posted - 2016.09.29 01:57:36 - [175] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the silence but vacations were being enjoyed. For the next release I'll be vastly lowering the High Tech building material amounts required to build both multi analyzers. I'm also going to lower the Zeugma's Coherence from 40 to 30 as it's slightly too strong in my opinion. Early numbers I'm looking at are: Ligature - 50 each (150 high tech goods required in total - down from 1500) Zeugma - 100 each (300 high tech goods required in total - down from 3000) That's all for now so let me know your thoughts on this please. Fly safe, CCP RedDawn I missed this post several weeks ago. I'm now going to check out this module. Thanks for the change! CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Pindleton Severasse Aspect of Gravity 37	Posted - 2016.11.28 18:12:20 - [176] - Quote I saw a few people in this thread suggesting that the Zeugma has no utility for explorers. However, this is immensely valuable for an Astero that wants to do it all. You can fit a scram, and cap booster, prop mod, and still be able to do both relics and data sites using the Zeugma. Since the max hacking strength you can have is 40, with decent skills it doesn't matter if the Zeugma is a bit weaker on paper. I still blaze through sites with no problems.
PopeUrban El Expedicion Flames of Exile 237	Posted - 2016.11.28 22:17:15 - [177] - Quote Pindleton Severasse wrote: I saw a few people in this thread suggesting that the Zeugma has no utility for explorers. However, this is immensely valuable for an Astero that wants to do it all. You can fit a scram, and cap booster, prop mod, and still be able to do both relics and data sites using the Zeugma. Since the max hacking strength you can have is 40, with decent skills it doesn't matter if the Zeugma is a bit weaker on paper. I still blaze through sites with no problems. Indeed I have people in corp running these on asteros for exactly that purpose (we had the blueprints so we said ** it and built some) For new explorers its a bad time, but those people shouldn't be dunking their money in an astero without some more ship/drone,tank,etc. skills anyway. For experienced pilots with good hacking and scanning skills it is an interesting tradeoff. You get to keep your cargo bay space in stead of wasting it on an MTU to refit data/relic scanners. It is slightly annoying to be limited to one little bucket for the hacking grid items, but once you get used to it a skilled player can clear most sites in the same amount of time. It IS however pretty much pointless on anything BUT the Astero, still somewhat overpriced for its function and drawbacks, and still suffers from the crius era nerf to the profitability of data sites. For this thing to be really attractive, data sites need to be attractive again, and with the cruis changes still drastically limiting demand for decryptors and data sites still having **** drop rates for unique site-only BPCs its just not worth the cost even in that case. Most people would rather just leave the data analyzer at home fif they don't wanna carry around an MTU, or leave the point at home and just fit for self defense rather than killing the attacker. The cost would be okay if this had some kind of effect that would make it useful on other ships (recieves extra bonus from hacking rigs or comes with some +scan or something) so it was a costly way to ghetto-fit other ships or actually get back some resources on t2 frigs that are useful. The ligature, however, is still complete trash. The Zeugma, even in its best use case (the astero hacker/combat hybrid) it is still largely in the same boat as the massive pile of other faction modules. It is overpriced shiny bullshit that nobody wants to fit because the cost does not equate to the utility gained. Just like those other shiny modules, people will fit them because they happen to have them, or because they just want to fit up some shiny nonsense, but I still feel they'd be better off as just bonus hacking modules in a world where relic/data analyzers were merged and have exactly the same appeal for the same players.


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