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Plea for more than 3 minutes to kill a freighter

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Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 941	Posted - 2016.04.28 04:15:36 - [1] - Quote I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. [u]Highsec is owned by players now.[/u] Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-áAll miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code.-áMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more.
Tyyler DURden Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co. 240	Posted - 2016.04.28 04:37:18 - [2] - Quote Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about. Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious. Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Ozzie Udan Caldari Provisions Caldari State 444	Posted - 2016.04.28 08:44:41 - [3] - Quote Tyyler DURden wrote: Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about. Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious. It's only a nerf to ransoming scum pirates , sorry you need to work a bit harder. Tyyler DURden is right Facetious is a word that fits well here. A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
Sasha Cohenberg Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling 49	Posted - 2016.04.28 10:05:44 - [4] - Quote Ozzie Udan wrote: Tyyler DURden wrote: Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about. Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious. It's only a nerf to ransoming scum pirates , sorry you need to work a bit harder. Tyyler DURden is right Facetious is a word that fits well here. Getting donations from other haulers is a time honored tradition in highsec
Sarah Flynt 170	Posted - 2016.04.28 11:19:37 - [5] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 327	Posted - 2016.04.28 11:56:34 - [6] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1036	Posted - 2016.04.28 13:17:58 - [7] - Quote Um... You do know the toggle switch was partially caused by us making a stink about it proving it was more than just AWOXers who used the feature. Maybe try to find others who support this outside your community so CCP realises the impact is larger than they initily thought.
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 171	Posted - 2016.04.28 13:44:27 - [8] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong? Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 330	Posted - 2016.04.28 14:20:45 - [9] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong? You didn't answer my question (even though I already know its answer) Freighter ganking without bumpers is feasible BUT It's nigh impossible if the dude is at his keyboard, for afk freighters, your only window is on the out - gate. Bumping is a tool to give gankers a bigger ganking window than a minute for afk pilots. it also lets them choose who and when they will strike (usually every 15-16 minutes as we all know) Look at it this way: If bumping only works for 3 minutes, freighter ganks will be as rare as me dying. If there are no more freighter ganks, you lot will have nothing else to do (other than crying and waiting for a fleet to appear out of nowhere) No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire. Think about it Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1036	Posted - 2016.04.28 14:34:15 - [10] - Quote So every 2.75 minutes you need a suicide tackler to long point the freighter. That breaks warp and should start the timer over. So 5 or 6 tackle alts, assuming you need the full 15 minute cool down because 2 freighters you need to gank arrived at the same time. Or does a point stop but not reset the counter? If it doesn't reset the counter, should anti-gankers start figuring out the counter mechanics so they could offer pre-counter warm up (or whatever term they wish to call it)?
Dom Arkaral Axios 330	Posted - 2016.04.28 14:50:10 - [11] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: So every 2.75 minutes you need a suicide tackler to long point the freighter. That breaks warp and should start the timer over. So 5 or 6 tackle alts, assuming you need the full 15 minute cool down because 2 freighters you need to gank arrived at the same time. Or does a point stop but not reset the counter? If it doesn't reset the counter, should anti-gankers start figuring out the counter mechanics so they could offer pre-counter warm up (or whatever term they wish to call it)? I don't think any details went out about the timer reset (if there's even one) Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1970	Posted - 2016.04.28 14:53:38 - [12] - Quote Thank you Ozzie for getting CCP to finally fix the bumping issue. You have the gratitude of all of empire!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2440	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:20:31 - [13] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong? A criminal gang ganking a moving and/or attentive target is near impossible without bumping or another form of tackling. It's as hard as killing any other moving ship without tackle and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. If no tackle at all was allowed, the rate of freighter explosions would drop precipitously. However, there is no reason to believe that will be the case. Rationality, and expediency suggest that a suicide point on a target will prevent warp and reset the timer (as it currently does - well not the timer as that doesn't exist but reset the warp attempt part). I am sure CCP will want to mess with the warp code as little as possible and given they claim to be nerfing bumping, not ganking, I don't see why they would waste the effort to rewrite that part of it. Gankers will adapt to using a suicide point. If that is wrong, well then we can have some rancorous debates whether 3 minutes of tackle is sufficient time to get a fleet from station to the target. My initial thought is that it is not, given that would limit a criminal fleet only the the current system, but such discussion is premature. I'm sure the point (no pun intended) will be clarified eventually. Why Do They Gank?
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1972	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:23:17 - [14] - Quote Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
Dom Arkaral Axios 330	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:28:23 - [15] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately? Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 15246	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:30:04 - [16] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1973	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:35:41 - [17] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately? Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2440	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:37:36 - [18] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. Why Do They Gank?
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 15247	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:48:02 - [19] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1036	Posted - 2016.04.28 15:58:00 - [20] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately? Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer. After committing a criminal act such as shooting at a Target that is not a legal target (as gankers do), you receive a 15 minute timer. During this time, Concord will show up and kill any ship you fly. This includes if you undock in a new ship or if you warp to a bowhead, wait out your 1 minute weapon timer, then board a new ship. So badically, after ganking (be it successful or not) you must wait 15 minutes. Now if 2 freighters show up at the same time, one would have to be bumped for 15-20 minutes while the fleet kills the other ship them gets ready again. So really, the nerf is to having multiple freighters bumped up for ganking.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2440	Posted - 2016.04.28 16:04:35 - [21] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point You did made me check though if it might possible to tank or fight your way the through faction police while waiting to ambush a target. My conclusion is that is not. Remote repping an outlaw does indeed make you go suspect (I couldn't remember if this was implemented but that is what the defunct Eve wiki says) and even if you did risk your logi and managed to stay alive they web and scram you so would likely be unable to get into range of your target. I think at that point I would just give up on criminal ganking and tag up to neutral each time and use Tornados to gank a ship I couldn't tackle. It would be a shame to have to completely circumvent the CrimeWatch mechanics, but it would be the only feasible way left, which while doable, would increase the cost of the gank significantly. Why Do They Gank?
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 11814	Posted - 2016.04.28 18:46:18 - [22] - Quote Galaxy Pig, where is your permit? You may issue them, but you do not have one Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Albrecht Patrouette Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 19	Posted - 2016.04.28 20:07:28 - [23] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire. Think about it How odd, since my cousin, Armand Patrouette, is a dedicated High Sec Militia pilot who does just that: pursues solo and small gang gankers and flies miner escort in those systems that those particular pilots frequent. So I can say with absolute certainty that your "I can say with certainty" is a major crock. Yes, the Patrouette clan gets involved with protecting freighters, but that's not the sum total of our anti-piracy/anti-ganking activities. Should your doomsday prediction come true and freighter ganking cease to exist (seriously, do you really believe that?) we'll still have plently to do with patrolling HighSec.
Dom Arkaral Axios 332	Posted - 2016.04.28 20:20:15 - [24] - Quote Albrecht Patrouette wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire. Think about it How odd, since my cousin, Armand Patrouette, is a dedicated High Sec Militia pilot who does just that: pursues solo and small gang gankers and flies miner escort in those systems that those particular pilots frequent. So I can say with absolute certainty that your "I can say with certainty" is a major crock. Yes, the Patrouette clan gets involved with protecting freighters, but that's not the sum total of our anti-piracy/anti-ganking activities. Should your doomsday prediction come true and freighter ganking cease to exist (seriously, do you really believe that?) we'll still have plently to do with patrolling HighSec. There are also Patrouette gankers Your antipirate argument is invalid. Can't wait to see how little time it'll take until you realize you can't save highsec by helping players who can't help themselves XD Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Dom Arkaral Axios 332	Posted - 2016.04.28 20:23:33 - [25] - Quote It's basic combat triage: Save the living, and leave the dying to die. By living, I talk about players at their keyboard. And the dying... afk peasants and botters It's a beautiful saying don't you think? Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7569	Posted - 2016.04.28 23:50:02 - [26] - Quote The salt... Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter? Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7569	Posted - 2016.04.28 23:57:48 - [27] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point To be honest, I see of lot of chiding about industrials being "fit for production and no tank" as if that was some kind of sin around here. So fitting a ship just "for one thing" might be pass+¬. But I mission with tackle so don't go on what I say. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dom Arkaral Axios 333	Posted - 2016.04.29 00:10:46 - [28] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The salt... Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter? Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. do you even post on topic? or is always "hhnnng lloookkk aatttt thhheee salallltttt hyperventilates" Reporting for off-topic gibberish. Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Tyyler DURden Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co. 244	Posted - 2016.04.29 01:12:57 - [29] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The salt... Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter? Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. do you even post on topic? or is always "hhnnng lloookkk aatttt thhheee salallltttt hyperventilates" Reporting for off-topic gibberish. Another classic pot and kettle moment from everyone's favorite forum snitch Dom Arkaral. Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Faylee Freir MALEVOLENT. Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 240	Posted - 2016.04.29 03:51:25 - [30] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately? Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer. After committing a criminal act such as shooting at a Target that is not a legal target (as gankers do), you receive a 15 minute timer. During this time, Concord will show up and kill any ship you fly. This includes if you undock in a new ship or if you warp to a bowhead, wait out your 1 minute weapon timer, then board a new ship. So badically, after ganking (be it successful or not) you must wait 15 minutes. Now if 2 freighters show up at the same time, one would have to be bumped for 15-20 minutes while the fleet kills the other ship them gets ready again. So really, the nerf is to having multiple freighters bumped up for ganking. You got your mechanics wrong. In the past it was possible to go criminal, warp to a bowhead/orca, then board a new ship. You could do it while criminal and didnt have to wait out a weapons timer... Unfortunately CCP nerfed this last year so its no longer a working strategy. HTFU
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7570	Posted - 2016.04.29 06:27:25 - [31] - Quote Tyyler DURden wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The salt... Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter? Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. do you even post on topic? or is always "hhnnng lloookkk aatttt thhheee salallltttt hyperventilates" Reporting for off-topic gibberish. Another classic pot and kettle moment from everyone's favorite forum snitch Dom Arkaral. It's a good sign when they have to resort to running to the hall monitors. It's just more salt, only that reddish kind that's full of minerals and more healthy. But I would have to insist that it's on topic because ganks are mostly linked with bumping. As I stated in another thread, whereby ganks may include bumping, bumping itself is a mechanic, a poor one, that stands by itself. You can bump ships just because you feel like it, all day even. Now the OP is a codie calling for an extension of 2 minutes to the auto-warp - which is odd. How does 2 minutes make any difference? Are they not able to get to the gank site in 3? Or is 5 minutes of bumping required to get the target clear of the gate guns? Is the range of gate guns that good? Most of the freighter ganks I have seen varied from 300KM to 700KM from the gate. Does this vary by security status of the system or is the objective to remove the crime scene entirely out of gate gun range? (These are actual questions, not snark) But a codie distributing salt over bumping seems almost too good, like we are being trolled. I would expect one of those nameless fail gankers we occasionally run across to do that. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7570	Posted - 2016.04.29 06:36:02 - [32] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately? Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer. After committing a criminal act such as shooting at a Target that is not a legal target (as gankers do), you receive a 15 minute timer. During this time, Concord will show up and kill any ship you fly. This includes if you undock in a new ship or if you warp to a bowhead, wait out your 1 minute weapon timer, then board a new ship. So badically, after ganking (be it successful or not) you must wait 15 minutes. Now if 2 freighters show up at the same time, one would have to be bumped for 15-20 minutes while the fleet kills the other ship them gets ready again. So really, the nerf is to having multiple freighters bumped up for ganking. You got your mechanics wrong. In the past it was possible to go criminal, warp to a bowhead/orca, then board a new ship. You could do it while criminal and didnt have to wait out a weapons timer... Unfortunately CCP nerfed this last year so its no longer a working strategy. This happened in two stages. First, there was the "gank trifecta" or "boomerang ganking". A fellow by the name of Herr Wilkus, who IMO is probably the best ganker Eve Online ever saw, made a post demonstrating that with a tornado and three targets in a belt (ice usually) that happened to be far enough away from each other could facilitate him ganking up to three mining vessels in one go. Gank one, short warp to the next, gank that, and then short warp and gank a third before Concord finally got him. There were people doing this in 3-5 ship teams of cats before Herr Wilkus made his short-lived forum post. He merely figured out how to do this with a single Tornado through proper fitting. And within a week of that post, it was nerfed. It was not deemed a bannable "escaping Concord" activity though. There was no escape from Concord, but you did for a short while. ("how does it feel to be personally addressed by a nerf?" I once asked. I'm not into ganking, but Wilkus had it down so well, out of honesty I had to submit to being impressed nonetheless) Anyway, the end of hyperdunking came later. Hyperdunking was controversial for a while, but I had the opportunity to convo with a ganker who was very good at it, and the setup of a hyperdunk and the ease at which an anti-ganker can single-handedly derail it made hyper-dunking a kind of "do it because you can" sort of thing, but not necessary for a gank. It was more trouble than it was worth. The end of hyperdunking came without much fanfare because more efficient gankers found it was not worthwhile to do and the proliferation of anti-gankers finding ways to stop them made it too risky to attempt. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2016.04.29 11:20:57 - [33] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The salt... Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter? Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. Code tears are especially salty this week
Dom Arkaral Axios 334	Posted - 2016.04.29 11:41:14 - [34] - Quote Stay on topic kids.. And @op, ISD usually comes quicker when you're the one wanting a cleanup Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1986	Posted - 2016.04.29 11:45:10 - [35] - Quote All this discussion kind of makes my point. There are penalties put on ganking characters (-10 sec status) and ganking fleets (global timers) that are in place so that a red flashy dude (by whatever means) can't willy nilly around HS and pop things at his leisure. I'm not debating the morality or merits of these rules, just saying that they are there. My opinion: In the bigger view, bumping was a mechanic that allowed red flashy dudes the time necessary to: 1. Reship - In cases such as Niarja with no stations (sure now there is bowhead but that's recent) it takes time to reship. Even w/ bowhead, it takes time to warp to bowhead, get ship and get back. With out bumping you'd only get one freighter as reship times are greater than CONCORD response times no matter how you reship. 2. It allows the gank fleet to lull about either in station or in space in a pod just waiting for the fleet to assemble. You could even be afk doing other things, get a ping, log in and assemble. I think the spirit of CONCORD is that if you're red flashy (again by sec status of 15min timer) in empire then you're either moving constantly to evade the facpo (who will scram and kill you as you don't have time to fight them off and escape) or in a pod. It allows for a fleet to assemble and gank or whatever, but you have to be quick about it. Here's the rub - bumping bypassed the whole spirit of CONCORD and allowed gankers to take their time and gank at their leisure. THAT is what overall pissed off the non gankers. Sure there are all sorts of counters -heck my corp even rescued one of my guys being bumped in an orca after the bumping started. It's not about the ability of freighters to evade a gank, the anger was at the ability of the gankers to evade the spirit of CONCORD in HS. Multiple ships stacked for the slaughter and the 20+ minute game of beach ball as the gankers logged in and assembled are what did it in. Overall assessment: Ganking really is good for the game. Bumping had what can only be described as an EPIC run (hats off to all the lads who lobbied to keep a doomed mechanic afloat for so long - seriously - you guys did some nice work on several fronts - and it was work). Ganking isn't dead by any means. It's just going to adapt. Ganking will go way down in the short term, but it will have a lot less to do with the 3 min thing and more to do w/ other stuff going on in eve atm. You guys had a great run and to be fair you earned it - you did a lot of work to keep bumping alive. All good things come to an end (I sure we're all thinking about 8tracs right now). This is just an end to an era, not an end to ganking. CCP probably got this one right. 3 min on the out gate for players at the keyboard prevents stacking and requires gankers to be assembled and ready - You have to be actively playing the game to gank a freighter pilot that is actively playing the game. On the in gate for the afk freighter pilot not actively playing the game - nothing changes really. W/ no warp in progress (the slow approach for 15km) it's bump, bump, bump (repeat forever) and the afk pilot is now susceptible to the afk gank fleet OR can be stacked multiple freighters high. Morale of the change - actively play the game.
Dom Arkaral Axios 334	Posted - 2016.04.29 12:55:14 - [36] - Quote When bumping dies, AG will die with it. That will be gloriously hilarious You guys don't seem to realize that the only content you were getting (in the form of freighter ganking) is going to be way more rare than it was during loyal's era. Look at most of the older ag with brains on their shoulders, they moved on and are probably having the time of their lives in Null, instead of failing at doing anything in highsec. Maybe you should focus on yourselves instead of saying that everything I say is salt, or instead of making of highsec a haven of bot-aspirancy. I'll finish with this: Dom Arkaral wrote: It's basic combat triage: Save the living, and leave the dying to die. So in your eyes, if ganking is "dying", let it go Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2440	Posted - 2016.04.29 14:00:15 - [37] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I think the spirit of CONCORD is that if you're red flashy (again by sec status of 15min timer) in empire then you're either moving constantly to evade the facpo (who will scram and kill you as you don't have time to fight them off and escape) or in a pod. It allows for a fleet to assemble and gank or whatever, but you have to be quick about it. Here's the rub - bumping bypassed the whole spirit of CONCORD and allowed gankers to take their time and gank at their leisure. THAT is what overall pissed off the non gankers. Sure there are all sorts of counters -heck my corp even rescued one of my guys being bumped in an orca after the bumping started. It's not about the ability of freighters to evade a gank, the anger was at the ability of the gankers to evade the spirit of CONCORD in HS. Multiple ships stacked for the slaughter and the 20+ minute game of beach ball as the gankers logged in and assembled are what did it in. So you're good with the new paradigm which will likely still involve bumping by a Machariel interspersed with a suicide point from a noobship to tackle the freighter for a bit? I mean it does fulfill "the spirit of CONCORD" by offering up a sacrifice to the NPCs every three minutes or so, and will stop perma-bumping. Somehow though, I foresee the same complaints from the usual quarters that there is not enough risk for gankers and the calls for yet another nerf to bumping and/or ganking. Even if CCP rewrites the entering warp mechanic to enforce a hard 3 minute limit and prevent using a suicide scram, I still see the carebear crowd complaining that during those three minutes of bumping the bumper is still evading the "spirit of CONCORD". I guess it doesn't matter much what they think, but I do wonder where they will turn next for the "one more nerf" in their continual effort to bring balance to what is an inherently (and intentionally) unbalanced mechanic. Why Do They Gank?
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 175	Posted - 2016.04.29 14:16:47 - [38] - Quote @Dom Arkaral and Black Pedro: Anti-ganking members have been asking for a fix to bumping for a very long time, so don't try to use us as some kind of counter argument: it's BS. The channel wasn't created because of freighter ganking and it will certainly not die in case it will ever be removed (which is extremely unlikely and also not wanted by any of us). For a short summery of the motivation behind our channels, see here: http://astralservices.net/?Anti-gankChannels Let's talk about freighter ganking entirely without bumpers first: You both claim unanimously that you deem it to be "nigh impossible" and yet space wizard HABEPHO and his merry band of space elves do it all the time. How can that possibly be? The reason is quite simple: they aren't outlaws (sec status below -5 for those who don't know what an outlaw is). They accept the fact that ganking in highsec has certain punishments apart from losing your ship and adapt accordingly by either paying the fee for clone soldier tags or ratting their sec status back up. And this is what you actually fear: that the intended consequences suddenly could have a meaning. Currently they're more of a joke for dedicated gank alts and very easy to overcome. To say it in the words of your own camp: "You want to have the cake and eat it too". But CCP doesn't even plan to remove bumping (yet). They plan to give you a 3 minute window and while there is nothing known about the concrete implementation, yet, I fully expect them to do what they usually do: take the easiest possible route and implement it in a way that the timer gets reset once the freighter gets pointed. So in the end I expect not much to change, apart from having a minor annoyance to deal with on your end. CCP implicitly admitting that bumping has become a problem is at least something, though. To answer your earlier question: I have a gank alt myself to take out CONCORD protected ganker alts and while I haven't ganked a freighter myself, I'm very well aware of how it works in detail. I've used him with sec status below -5 and thus can tell from own experience that the current consequences are a joke. I've degraded him to a cyno alt by now as I find ganking not terribly challenging. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 334	Posted - 2016.04.29 14:33:26 - [39] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: @Dom Arkaral and Black Pedro: Anti-ganking members have been asking for a fix to bumping for a very long time, so don't try to use us as some kind of counter argument: it's BS. The channel wasn't created because of freighter ganking and it will certainly not die in case it will ever be removed (which is extremely unlikely and also not wanted by any of us). For a short summery of the motivation behind our channels, see here: http://astralservices.net/?Anti-gankChannels Let's talk about freighter ganking entirely without bumpers first: You both claim unanimously that you deem it to be "nigh impossible" and yet space wizard HABEPHO and his merry band of space elves do it all the time. How can that possibly be? The reason is quite simple: they aren't outlaws (sec status below -5 for those who don't know what an outlaw is). They accept the fact that ganking in highsec has certain punishments apart from losing your ship and adapt accordingly by either paying the fee for clone soldier tags or ratting their sec status back up. And this is what you actually fear: that the intended consequences suddenly could have a meaning. Currently they're more of a joke for dedicated gank alts and very easy to overcome. To say it in the words of your own camp: "You want to have the cake and eat it too". But CCP doesn't even plan to remove bumping (yet). They plan to give you a 3 minute window and while there is nothing known about the concrete implementation, yet, I fully expect them to do what they usually do: take the easiest possible route and implement it in a way that the timer gets reset once the freighter gets pointed. So in the end I expect not much to change, apart from having a minor annoyance to deal with on your end. CCP implicitly admitting that bumping has become a problem is at least something, though. To answer your earlier question: I have a gank alt myself to take out CONCORD protected ganker alts and while I haven't ganked a freighter myself, I'm very well aware of how it works in detail. I've used him with sec status below -5 and thus can tell from own experience that the current consequences are a joke. I've degraded him to a cyno alt by now as I find ganking not terribly challenging. You're comparing apples to peaches. Your whole argument is as bs as ours Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 113	Posted - 2016.04.29 15:02:50 - [40] - Quote I love these threads. It is all the same. Something changes and people complain. Let's look at a general list of issues and changes here. CCP allows ganking in the first place because no where should be totally safe - freighter pilots are upset but in the end, everyone generally agreed that is what eve is about. CCP allows bumping - freighter pilots, cap pilots, super pilots are upset. Everyone is confused by the general logic behind the mechanic, but ultimately agree that it does not make any logical sense but for "technical/legacy code" reasons, CCP can do nothing about it. CCP allows sec status for tags - some gankers are happy. many are indifferent due to the ease of operating in high sec with low sec status. CCP nerfs freight cargo capacity forcing freighter pilots to choose between the same utility they had before or the same tank they had before - gankers are happy. Gankers develop hyperdunking - gankers are happy CCP nerfs hyperdunking - freighter pilots are happy CCP increases the hitpoints on wrecks - gankers are happy CCP gives hull resistances to freighters - freighter pilots are happy. CCP introduces a new timer of 3 minutes for warping - freigher pilots are happy. COMPETENT gankers are indifferent. Ransom bumpers are not happy. *Note: CCP from what I have seen has not clarified exactly how the timer works. If the timer resets after each time a freighter is tackled, then there is a balance as gankers can just suicide a few toons on the freighter to increase the time available. If the freighter has to be tackled at exactly 3 minutes or the timer does not reset, then there may be a balance issue. In the end, ganking is not dead. Sorry to bust the OPs bubble.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2440	Posted - 2016.04.29 15:04:16 - [41] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Let's talk about freighter ganking entirely without bumpers first: You both claim unanimously that you deem it to be "nigh impossible" and yet space wizard HABEPHO and his merry band of space elves do it all the time. How can that possibly be? The reason is quite simple: they aren't outlaws (sec status below -5 for those who don't know what an outlaw is). They accept the fact that ganking in highsec has certain punishments apart from losing your ship and adapt accordingly by either paying the fee for clone soldier tags or ratting their sec status back up. And this is what you actually fear: that the intended consequences suddenly could have a meaning. Currently they're more of a joke for dedicated gank alts and very easy to overcome. To say it in the words of your own camp: "You want to have the cake and eat it too". Sure, I never claimed that tagging up and ganking as a neutral would be impossible. But I want to play the game as an outlaw. A pirate. A criminal who knocks over a transport and takes their loot for my own. Clearly, CCP wants me to be able to do that as well. They have spent much effort to enable criminal game play to take place in highsec. I think it is perfectly reasonable to raise the concern that a change in game mechanics would make such play functionally impossible. I don't care about bumping. Replace it with something else entirely if you wish, but I would like to be able to plan and execute heist with my fellow outlaw highwaymen. If bumping is removed straight out I would not be able to do so as an outlaw - at all. Sure, I can 'abuse' (see what I did there) the Tags-for-Sec system and gank while neutral, but that doesn't seem like a good solution from a content point of view as I would be much harder to stop from ganking using cloaked stealth bombers or otherwise while neutral or from a world view as only the most overloaded freighters would ever die because of the increased cost. If reducing the rate of ganking is you goal I can see why you would want bumping removed, but otherwise it seems to me if it is only bumping you have a problem with you would want it replaced with some other interdiction mechanic more likely to stimulate conflict and provide a skill component for flying freighters. But this is all premature as I agree with you CCP is unlikely to prevent a suicide point from working. So we are left at more-or-less the same place we were before. I agree that perma-bumping was problematic and I accept the need for a suicide scram a reasonable compromise but I don't expect that to change much at all - either changing how outlaw gankers operate or making carebears and their apologists suddenly happy about the mechanic. Criminals will still operate, exactly as CCP intends for them to, exploding complacent freighter pilots and adapting to the new mechanic, and carebears will continue to whine how unfair it is that they can lose their stuff to a dedicated and organized group of players many times their number. But I really do think there is a better way to facilitate criminal game play somewhere out there. I am very interested in hearing replacements ideas for bumping (or bump/suicide scramming) that would allow criminals to fight over a freighter in highsec that would be embraced by the anti-ganking community. Perhaps this isn't the place, but if some anti-ganker would like to lay out a system they would think fair to allow a group of outlaws to attack a freighter in highsec that doesn't use bumping, I am all ears. Why Do They Gank?
Tyyler DURden Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co. 246	Posted - 2016.04.29 15:43:03 - [42] - Quote When is this new bumping mechanic supposed to be released anyway, the next patch? Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 114	Posted - 2016.04.29 16:59:32 - [43] - Quote Tyyler DURden wrote: When is this new bumping mechanic supposed to be released anyway, the next patch? The only new bumping mechanic I am aware of is the idea that you can't be bumped if you are tethered to a citadel.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1989	Posted - 2016.04.29 17:17:46 - [44] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: I think the spirit of CONCORD is that if you're red flashy (again by sec status of 15min timer) in empire then you're either moving constantly to evade the facpo (who will scram and kill you as you don't have time to fight them off and escape) or in a pod. It allows for a fleet to assemble and gank or whatever, but you have to be quick about it. Here's the rub - bumping bypassed the whole spirit of CONCORD and allowed gankers to take their time and gank at their leisure. THAT is what overall pissed off the non gankers. Sure there are all sorts of counters -heck my corp even rescued one of my guys being bumped in an orca after the bumping started. It's not about the ability of freighters to evade a gank, the anger was at the ability of the gankers to evade the spirit of CONCORD in HS. Multiple ships stacked for the slaughter and the 20+ minute game of beach ball as the gankers logged in and assembled are what did it in. So you're good with the new paradigm which will likely still involve bumping by a Machariel interspersed with a suicide point from a noobship to tackle the freighter for a bit? I mean it does fulfill "the spirit of CONCORD" by offering up a sacrifice to the NPCs every three minutes or so, and will stop perma-bumping. Somehow though, I foresee the same complaints from the usual quarters that there is not enough risk for gankers and the calls for yet another nerf to bumping and/or ganking. Even if CCP rewrites the entering warp mechanic to enforce a hard 3 minute limit and prevent using a suicide scram, I still see the carebear crowd complaining that during those three minutes of bumping the bumper is still evading the "spirit of CONCORD". I guess it doesn't matter much what they think, but I do wonder where they will turn next for the "one more nerf" in their continual effort to bring balance to what is an inherently (and intentionally) unbalanced mechanic. The difference would be they have 3 minutes to hope they make it. I like ganking and think bumping was a stupid mechanic. I'm not sure where that puts me on your love/hate list. In the end where I fall out on anyone's list isn't important. I'm just giving you my read on the whole thing. My read on you is that you are mad. Real mad. That's cool, I've been mad before. Just search the change to mass/range when jumping through a wh. A small silly thing, but sheeesh I was rabid. I doubt the suicide bantam will last if that's the work around. CCP will get that too, for the same reasons. I'll give you the solution. EFFORT. The new paradigm (ugh hate that word) will probably include maintaining your sec status sufficient to keep the facpo off your back so you can do as you please. It's not hard to gank AND maintain sec status, it's actually quite easy. It only takes a small amount of EFFORT to maintain your get out of jail free card. I've done it on this character. Only for a month here and there, but I'm not making it up - I've done it. If you can't expend the EFFORT to maintain your get out of jail free card, then perhaps ganking isn't all that important to you after all. I think long term the practice of pinging a suicide gank will go the way of the dinosaur. At least you can still just ping sov timers of interest. There are still afk options available The free ride is over or ending - time to bring some effort to the game!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2441	Posted - 2016.04.29 17:50:39 - [45] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: My read on you is that you are mad. Real mad. That's cool, I've been mad before. Just search the change to mass/range when jumping through a wh. A small silly thing, but sheeesh I was 98Kcmw9SyGwY I doubt the suicide bantam will last if that's the work around. CCP will get that too, for the same reasons. ! I'm not mad at all. Just my read of the situation is that suicide scramming will still be possible and I am curious how the anti-bumping crew will take that. You seem mostly cool, if not your usual passive-aggressive self about it. Personally, I don't think that most others who have an issue with bumping will take the migration to the suicide scram paradigm with such aplomb. They will view the requirement of sacrificing a frigate or noob ship as 'cheap' and be agitating for more nerfs the next day. But given we don't even know what form the nerf to bumping will take, it probably is too early to start a meta discussion of the acceptance of a yet-to-be-determine mechanic. Therefore, I withdraw the question. Why Do They Gank?
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 11831	Posted - 2016.04.29 20:06:08 - [46] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Galaxy Pig, where is your permit? You may issue them, but you do not have one Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 178	Posted - 2016.04.30 21:52:14 - [47] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: not full quoting Apparently we have very different views of what a pirate constitutes. For me it's a role you can play in the game, defined by your actions and a certain state of mind (of your char) but also limited by game mechanics. For you it's apparently either a certain number on your char sheet or the refusal to pay a fee/effort to prevent highsec NPC's from chasing you. I really don't get why you think you're entitled to an aggression free tackle mechanism for a certain ship class when all other forms of piracy simply accept the fact that they can't do certain things when having a security status below -5. I've yet to hear a single Vexor or Tornado hauler ganker in the trade pipes or at trade hubs to demand such a thing. CCP even gave you clone soldier tags to bribe your sec status up to a desired level, so you don't have to grind it up anymore. Don't pod the target and the security hit is very small. If you also want to pod the target, you've to pay a price for it but that is your choice. If freighters couldn't be ganked any other way you'd have a point but that is certainly not the case as others demonstrate on a daily basis. Even with a sec status of below -5 it's far from impossible. It's certainly tedious and error prone, depending how good your timing is, but it can be done. If bumping was a crucial tackle mechanism in other parts of space, you'd have a point but that also doesn't apply anymore: supers just got their e-war immunity removed. Removing bumping as a way to prevent warp also only affects freighters that are actively flown. Freighters on autopilot still can be bumped as long as you want when they're slowboating to the gate or even on the other side with a suicide scram, which - as you certainly know - disables the autopilot and thus any warp attempt. Isn't that what your camp is telling people all the time: don't fly a freighter AFK and you're safe (which was BS to begin with but without bump tackle it's at least true in certain cases)? Above are the reasons why it's highly unlikely that any AG member will ever make any serious suggestions to replace bump tackle with something else because we want it completely removed as it's completely unneccessary. Sure, you may hear some people, who haven't really thought it through, say that a bumping ship should simply go suspect but we both know that it would be incredibly hard if not impossible to implement this in a way that doesn't turn the Jita undock into a freighter graveyard. CCP is giving you a 3 minute window (for now) and you should be happy that they're even so generous because in my opinion it should be removed alltogether as it doesn't make any sense and doesn't fit in with the rest of the highsec aggression mechanics, but ... ... and here comes a big BUT: I also think that the Highsec PVP side in general is in desperate need of a complete rethought as I agree that there are less and less options for you and by that also for the good guys (that's us btw in case you had any ideas :P). Not just the criminal side but also CONCORD approved PVP: Highsec wars were already unfun for the defenders most of the time, now they're even unfun for the attackers, thanks to the removal of onesided watchlisting. There is much more but that's probably for another time to discuss (hi ISD, not trying to derail the thread <3). Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 942	Posted - 2016.05.01 01:12:44 - [48] - Quote Tyyler DURden wrote: Facetious. Lol, has CODE. trolled you guys so hard that you have some sort of PTrollSD or something? I must admit , I feel a bit like the boy who cried wolf, here. [u]Highsec is owned by players now.[/u] Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-áAll miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code.-áMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2448	Posted - 2016.05.01 06:10:42 - [49] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: I really don't get why you think you're entitled to an aggression free tackle mechanism for a certain ship class when all other forms of piracy simply accept the fact that they can't do certain things when having a security status below -5. I never said I was. But the balancing of the massive EHP against the binary nature of the CONCORD mechanic is problematic. It is the exact reason that the other capital ships are not allowed into highsec - the EHP is just too high for a DPS race game mechanic to be feasible and thus they would be invulnerable. If you do not allow some sort of tackle against freighters, you make it functionally impossible for an actively piloted freighter to be killed by criminals. I would be perfectly fine with an interdiction method that turns a neutral tackler suspect. Or forces the attacker to risk some deployable structure or special ship. Anything really, that would allow an attempt on an actively piloted freighter by criminals. Bumping for 3 minutes (if perhaps a little short) still qualifies as does bumping with a suicide point, but I was wondering if AG had an alternative they would think more fair than using bumping at all. Regardless, that is the long term problem is that balancing issue. Without tackle, freighters are much more expensive to kill if you are forced to circumvent crime watch and gankers are much harder to stop if they are not criminals so it kills content from both sides. Less freighters will start fights and there is nearly no room for friends or Good Samaritans to come help out the hauler pilot when it does. I do see that indefinite tackle, without an avenue for a CONCORD-approved response, needed addressing. We shouldn't forget however that bumping and the risk of interference of navigation of capital ships by subcaps was intentionally included as a vulnerability for them by the game designers. Freighters are intended to have down-sides to offset their many strengths, and vulnerability to bump-tackle is one of them. That's probably why CCP went with this modification of the mechanic, rather than a complete removal of bumping. Sarah Flynt wrote: ... and here comes a big BUT: I also think that the Highsec PVP side in general is in desperate need of a complete rethought as I agree that there are less and less options for you and by that also for the good guys (that's us btw in case you had any ideas :P). Not just the criminal side but also CONCORD approved PVP: Highsec wars were already unfun for the defenders most of the time, now they're even unfun for the attackers, thanks to the removal of onesided watchlisting. There is much more but that's probably for another time to discuss (hi ISD, not trying to derail the thread <3). Well, at least here we have found some more common ground. I agree that wars and crime mechanics are due for a rethink and pass by CCP. There is much room to fix both mechanics to allow more interesting and enjoyable fights. But I think you are right this isn't the place for that discussion. My hope though is that if Fozzie was serious about letting capitals back into highsec, they will be forced to address the whole way illegal aggression is handled and implement a new way for capital ships to be attacked that allows more interesting gameplay and choices for both attacker and defender. Until then we have 3 minutes bumping or slightly longer bump/scramming. I guess we'll see how that plays out. Why Do They Gank?
Moonacre Parmala Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2016.05.01 11:55:02 - [50] - Quote how about bringing mass and kinetics into the equation. simple maths atm. Cerberus vs Charon. Vanilla figures. ignoring skills and abilities etc. Cerberus. Charon mass 12,720,000kg Vs mass 960,000,000kg Max vel. 220m/s Max Vel 60m/s potential energy 2,798,400,000kgm/s pE 57,600,000,000kgm/s (mass x velocity) it would mean a Cerberus at max velocity would have to hit a charon 21 times to stop it never mind change it's direction. i thought that this would have played a part when you get an inty bumping a freighter away from a gate................
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2454	Posted - 2016.05.02 07:18:08 - [51] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: I really don't get why you think you're entitled to an aggression free tackle mechanism for a certain ship class when all other forms of piracy simply accept the fact that they can't do certain things when having a security status below -5. CCP is giving you a 3 minute window (for now) and you should be happy that they're even so generous because in my opinion it should be removed alltogether as it doesn't make any sense and doesn't fit in with the rest of the highsec aggression mechanics, but ... ... and here comes a big BUT: I also think that the Highsec PVP side in general is in desperate need of a complete rethought as I agree that there are less and less options for you and by that also for the good guys (that's us btw in case you had any ideas :P). Not just the criminal side but also CONCORD approved PVP: Highsec wars were already unfun for the defenders most of the time, now they're even unfun for the attackers, thanks to the removal of onesided watchlisting. There is much more but that's probably for another time to discuss (hi ISD, not trying to derail the thread <3). No one demands an aggression free tackle in Highsec. It just happened that the creative people playing EVE used the game mechanics already in place in a probably not so intended way. And this has happened a lot of times with different mechanics over the years. What makes me upset about this is that CCP has no intention to actually fix the real problems in Highsec. They just remove some stuff here and there and implement some stupid custom rules to silence the people who cry the loudest. I mean it's not only the ganking, they just seriously hurt all the mercs and probably AG as well by just removing the watchlist without any replacement at all. And this is just another example of a bullshit fix. What will it accomplish? In the best case nothing in the worst case it will completely backfire. It is always a bad idea to implement some non-obvious game mechanic to protect the carebears because: they will not know it exists, since they are not interested in game mechanics anyway. We will know every detail and use it in ways CCP did not intended. The way it is proposed now it will still be there, but only for people who have like 6-7 suicide tacklers ready in system. I am sure I already know such a group. Now the mechanic will be an exclusive to us, well done! the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 181	Posted - 2016.05.02 15:52:31 - [52] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: No one demands an aggression free tackle in Highsec. He wants to tackle a freighter over a prolonged time without CONCORD interfering. How else would you call it? Ima Wreckyou wrote: The way it is proposed now it will still be there, but only for people who have like 6-7 suicide tacklers ready in system. I am sure I already know such a group. Now the mechanic will be an exclusive to us, well done! No doubt about that. And this will not be the last nerf if you continue freighter ganking at the same rate as you did during the last year, especially if you keep ganking empty or low cargo value freighters. When will you finally realize that it's not CCP who is ultimately responsible for all these nerfs but you yourselves? CCP only reacts to developments that they have identified to be unhealthy for their subscriber numbers and primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs (CCP Fozzie said so in an interview at the end of last year where he also mentioned for the first time that they were looking into modifications to bumping, especially wrt. freighters). When other profit-oriented freighter gankers come to us and beg us to put an end to what you're doing, then you know something is seriously wrong. Same for miner ganking: CCP just announced another major iteration for mining barges. Do you really think the timing is a coincidence? I fully expect another major nerf for your playstyle and if I look at the mining landscape in highsec these days, I certainly don't blame them. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2459	Posted - 2016.05.02 17:09:00 - [53] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: No doubt about that. And this will not be the last nerf if you continue freighter ganking at the same rate as you did during the last year, especially if you keep ganking empty or low cargo value freighters. When will you finally realize that it's not CCP who is ultimately responsible for all these nerfs but you yourselves? CCP only reacts to developments that they have identified to be unhealthy for their subscriber numbers and primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs (CCP Fozzie said so in an interview at the end of last year where he also mentioned for the first time that they were looking into modifications to bumping, especially wrt. freighters). When other profit-oriented freighter gankers come to us and beg us to put an end to what you're doing, then you know something is seriously wrong. Same for miner ganking: CCP just announced another major iteration for mining barges. Do you really think the timing is a coincidence? I fully expect another major nerf for your playstyle and if I look at the mining landscape in highsec these days, I certainly don't blame them. I am sure you can provide us with the source of the information where Fozzy says we are responsible for the decline in subscribers and the reason why CCP has to repeatedly adjust the game and introduce silly new mechanics. I hope it was not just something you just made up or extrapolated out of a simple sentence which tells us absolutely nothing. It Would be great to have that link ready next time someone tells me we have no impact. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2461	Posted - 2016.05.02 17:59:18 - [54] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Same for miner ganking: CCP just announced another major iteration for mining barges. Do you really think the timing is a coincidence? I fully expect another major nerf for your playstyle and if I look at the mining landscape in highsec these days, I certainly don't blame them. Sure, it is not a coincidence that a mining ship overhaul was announced in practically the same breath as the new industrial structures. Mining may finally be getting a bit of an overhaul everyone wants to see with new ways to mine so it totally makes sense that changes to mining barges to support this new game play would come with the Drilling Platforms. But you are mistaken if you think that means highsec mining is going to be made safer. If anything, the renewed vulnerability of all structures to war declarations is a clear gift of content to those who control regions space like the New Order who will be able to enforce thier will against the structures of miners who don't follow thier rules. Only those that have permission to anchor a structure in a region of space (or the ability to defend it) will now be able to mine with full efficiency. In fact, those highsec miners without access to drilling platforms are about to get hit by a big nerf to thier income as they get outcompeted by their fellow miners who do. If I were a highsec miner, I'd be looking either to join a group large enough to defend a drilling platform, or a new profession entirely. CCP has doubled-down on player-driven content and it seems to be working by adding more ways for players to wreck each other's dreams. Even the slumbering nullsec seems to be picking up activity. They are not going to turn around now. I think it is just wishful thinking on your part to say that CCP is going to actively be adding ways for highsec miners to wall themselves off from the greater sandbox. If anything, there is going to be more ways to interfere with illegal mining operations coming online in the next year. Why Do They Gank?
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 182	Posted - 2016.05.03 05:04:55 - [55] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: [...]CCP only reacts to developments that they have identified to be unhealthy for their subscriber numbers and primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs (CCP Fozzie said so in an interview at the end of last year where he also mentioned for the first time that they were looking into modifications to bumping, especially wrt. freighters)[...] I am sure you can provide us with the source of the information where Fozzy says we are responsible for the decline in subscribers and the reason why CCP has to repeatedly adjust the game and introduce silly new mechanics. No, he didn't say that and I didn't say that either. There is no single reason. It's not that easy. The part in parantheses refers to the second part of the previous sentence: "primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs". My appologies, I should have clarified that. The interview was by EN24. Unfortunately the link to the audiofile on their website is dead but it's still on their iTunes channel. It's the one from 15.07.2015, even earlier than I remembered. Interrestingly after being asked for ganking he repeated what was presented at fanfest 2015: that ganking increases player retention. I hope that wasn't based on what they presented at fanfest, as while being an interresting datapoint which warrants further research, you can't draw this conclusion from the presented data and methology (you couldn't draw the opposite conclusion either if the data was different). Regardless to what data he was referring to: the question this raises is: what has changed since then? Why the sudden change of mind? Why the enormous freighter EHP buff that also affects other parts of space (don't believe for a second that this was some sort of 'quid pro quo' thing wrt. gankers vs. anti-gankers. No game designer works like that)? Why the bumping nerf? Is it to stop the cases of bumping for hours? Unlikely with just a 3 minute window, so it appears to be more likely to be directly targeted at ganking. But why, when it supposedly increases player retention? Any plausible explanation? Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2462	Posted - 2016.05.03 08:10:24 - [56] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: No, he didn't say that and I didn't say that either. There is no single reason. It's not that easy. The part in parantheses refers to the second part of the previous sentence: "primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs". My appologies, I should have clarified that. The interview was by EN24. Unfortunately the link to the audiofile on their website is dead but it's still on their iTunes channel. It's the one from 15.07.2015, even earlier than I remembered. Interrestingly after being asked for ganking he repeated what was presented at fanfest 2015: that ganking increases player retention. I hope that wasn't based on what they presented at fanfest, as while being an interresting datapoint which warrants further research, you can't draw this conclusion from the presented data and methology (you couldn't draw the opposite conclusion either if the data was different). Regardless to what data he was referring to: the question this raises is: what has changed since then? Why the sudden change of mind? Why the enormous freighter EHP buff that also affects other parts of space (don't believe for a second that this was some sort of 'quid pro quo' thing wrt. gankers vs. anti-gankers. No game designer works like that)? Why the bumping nerf? Is it to stop the cases of bumping for hours? Unlikely with just a 3 minute window, so it appears to be more likely to be directly targeted at ganking. But why, when it supposedly increases player retention? Any plausible explanation? I see, just your imagination again. My "explanation" or interpretation of the events is that they simply don't care about Highsec but some Nullsec friends got a Freighter bumped and ganked and now they just trow some small effortless fixes at it. Somehow some null guys just look down on Highsec, expect it to be carebear land and even if they occasionally themselves move stuff around they just expect to be safe and get all the rage when their Freighter gets killed and their assets for their important internet spacship empire in null get stolen. I expected that bumping nerf a long time now, pretty much since that old PL friend of Fozzy got bumped and ganked and was totally raging about it on a podcast. That guy had a whole alliance of friends but was somehow thinking shipping billions in assets without even an escort is the way to go in EVE, because Highsec is safe. Why wouldn't CCP say so if ganking really was bad for player retention? In fact they say the complete opposite! Until the time we have an official statement from a CCP guy that we in fact drive players away with ganking your assumption is not only baseless, pretty much everything CCP said points in the direction of it being completely wrong. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Anne Dieu-le-veut Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People 274	Posted - 2016.05.03 13:26:42 - [57] - Quote Moonacre Parmala wrote: how about bringing mass and kinetics into the equation. simple maths atm. Cerberus vs Charon. Vanilla figures. ignoring skills and abilities etc. Cerberus. Charon mass 12,720,000kg Vs mass 960,000,000kg Max vel. 220m/s Max Vel 60m/s potential energy 2,798,400,000kgm/s pE 57,600,000,000kgm/s (mass x velocity) it would mean a Cerberus at max velocity would have to hit a charon 21 times to stop it never mind change it's direction. i thought that this would have played a part when you get an inty bumping a freighter away from a gate................ Who bumps with a Cerebus, or without a MWD? A MWD also adds a lot of mass.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7615	Posted - 2016.05.03 16:20:47 - [58] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: No, he didn't say that and I didn't say that either. There is no single reason. It's not that easy. The part in parantheses refers to the second part of the previous sentence: "primarily highsec has lost a ton of subs". My appologies, I should have clarified that. The interview was by EN24. Unfortunately the link to the audiofile on their website is dead but it's still on their iTunes channel. It's the one from 15.07.2015, even earlier than I remembered. Interrestingly after being asked for ganking he repeated what was presented at fanfest 2015: that ganking increases player retention. I hope that wasn't based on what they presented at fanfest, as while being an interresting datapoint which warrants further research, you can't draw this conclusion from the presented data and methology (you couldn't draw the opposite conclusion either if the data was different). Regardless to what data he was referring to: the question this raises is: what has changed since then? Why the sudden change of mind? Why the enormous freighter EHP buff that also affects other parts of space (don't believe for a second that this was some sort of 'quid pro quo' thing wrt. gankers vs. anti-gankers. No game designer works like that)? Why the bumping nerf? Is it to stop the cases of bumping for hours? Unlikely with just a 3 minute window, so it appears to be more likely to be directly targeted at ganking. But why, when it supposedly increases player retention? Any plausible explanation? I see, just your imagination again. My "explanation" or interpretation of the events is that they simply don't care about Highsec but some Nullsec friends got a Freighter bumped and ganked and now they just trow some small effortless fixes at it. Somehow some null guys just look down on Highsec, expect it to be carebear land and even if they occasionally themselves move stuff around they just expect to be safe and get all the rage when their Freighter gets killed and their assets for their important internet spacship empire in null get stolen. I expected that bumping nerf a long time now, pretty much since that old PL friend of Fozzy got bumped and ganked and was totally raging about it on a podcast. That guy had a whole alliance of friends but was somehow thinking shipping billions in assets without even an escort is the way to go in EVE, because Highsec is safe. Why wouldn't CCP say so if ganking really was bad for player retention? In fact they say the complete opposite! Until the time we have an official statement from a CCP guy that we in fact drive players away with ganking your assumption is not only baseless, pretty much everything CCP said points in the direction of it being completely wrong. Is this about bumping or ganking? I'd expect you of all players to be careful about crossing the bridge. So maybe CCP says that ganking retains players. But being able to bump a ship endlessly without consequences, a situation that does not necessarily end in a gank, does what? The can-flippers and aggro-fu black belts of olde, bitter over the changes brought on by wreck abandonment options and crime watch, all went...... where? Remember it's about bumping. BTW: nullsec makes the events that puts Eve on mainstream news sites, not highsec. That the owner of this content knows which side of the toast is buttered is predictable. All this highsec tomfoolery is of no consequence to the game and in the end nobody cares. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 183	Posted - 2016.05.03 16:36:40 - [59] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: I see, just your imagination again. Feel free to call it whatever you like. At least my conclusion is based on what ends up in the game and not some tinfoil theory. Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why wouldn't CCP say so if ganking really was bad for player retention? In fact they say the complete opposite! Until the time we have an official statement from a CCP guy that we in fact drive players away with ganking your assumption is not only baseless, pretty much everything CCP said points in the direction of it being completely wrong. Another point to consider: the fanfest presentation data only covered the first 15 days of a char. As you couldn't train into a freighter in that timespan a year ago, those aren't included at all and the data for freighters might look very different. It's just a theory but at least it would explain this apparent contradiction in what they say and what they're actually doing. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2469	Posted - 2016.05.03 16:39:20 - [60] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: same idiotic crap as usual Why are you even quoting my post if you don't adress the content. I don't care what your problem with understanding the game mechanics of ganking and bumping is, maybe try to understand how the game works or something. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Dom Arkaral Axios 342	Posted - 2016.05.03 18:02:12 - [61] - Quote Gahh.. stupid cellphone Will make proper reply tonight Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1476	Posted - 2016.05.03 19:21:11 - [62] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Gahh.. stupid cellphone Will make proper reply tonight You have no honer. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1477	Posted - 2016.05.03 19:27:45 - [63] - Quote As far as I'm concerned, a 3 minute timer is perfectly reasonable. As a ganker the idea of holding a freighter bumped for 15 minutes or even more was hilariously ridiculous. It was only done because it was explicitly legal. From my perspective it was a deliberate abuse of a stupid mechanic. The fact that it took this long to change it is surprising. Bumping isn't only used in HS btw, bumping titans out of alignment is a time honored tradition across the vast reaches of null sec. Don't have a dictor? Just bump him. Oh and cap drain him so he can't jump. Is a 3 minute timer a great solution? Personally no, I don't think it is. Is it a quick to implement solution? Yes. We'll have to see exactly what the mechanic is when they do release it, and see how well the gank fleets are able to adapt to the new mechanics. Worst case, they'll have to be more selective of their targets. (not really a bad thing honestly) Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Dom Arkaral Axios 348	Posted - 2016.05.03 22:43:19 - [64] - Quote Okayyy here goes the bomb. Quote: Sarah Flynt Can you tell me, how does RFF succeed on such a large scale? I mean, they only failed 382 contract in 2015, despite completing 139 758? They also only lost 185 freighter in all areas of space (that's one freighter per 2 days) Can you tell me how I don't see them crying about CODE. or bumping? Maybe they take precautions instead of crying rivers to CCP because you guys are idiots. They use every tool at their disposal to not die to CODE. If only half of freighter pilots were as precautious. Your arguments mean nothing if the biggest hauling company in New Eden only failed 0.27% of all their contracts. Adapt or die Source Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7625	Posted - 2016.05.03 23:51:50 - [65] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: same idiotic crap as usual Why are you even quoting my post if you don't adress the content. I don't care what your problem with understanding the game mechanics of ganking and bumping is, maybe try to understand how the game works or something. I'll post different crap when you start posting different crap. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 184	Posted - 2016.05.04 21:34:30 - [66] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Can you tell me, how does RFF succeed on such a large scale? I mean, they only failed 382 contract in 2015, despite completing 139 758? They also only lost 185 freighter in all areas of space (that's one freighter per 2 days) That's only highsec. Black Frog uses jump freighters. For a highly specialised group that "uses every tool at their disposal to not die to CODE." that number is actually quite high. Dom Arkaral wrote: Can you tell me how I don't see them crying about CODE. or bumping? Ever heard of the concept of "alts"? Dom Arkaral wrote: Maybe they take precautions instead of crying rivers to CCP because you guys are idiots. Are you seriously trying to tell us that a highly specialised group should be used as baseline for balancing? On a further note: insults don't make you look very credible. Consider this discussion to be over from my end if you feel you have to continue to go down that road. Dom Arkaral wrote: Okayyy here goes the bomb. I'm still waiting for it Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 354	Posted - 2016.05.05 01:34:19 - [67] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Can you tell me, how does RFF succeed on such a large scale? I mean, they only failed 382 contract in 2015, despite completing 139 758? They also only lost 185 freighter in all areas of space (that's one freighter per 2 days) That's only highsec. Black Frog uses jump freighters. For a highly specialised group that "uses every tool at their disposal to not die to CODE." that number is actually quite high. 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. You're a speshul snowflake ain't ya? Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Nitshe Razvedka 627	Posted - 2016.05.05 03:19:07 - [68] - Quote Enough Dom, you have had your 5cents worth. Move on or you will not leave the thread with your dignity....... Listened to enough of your meerd whilst burning your last corps poco's, wished you had of all the drop kicks come to def. Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 184	Posted - 2016.05.05 09:26:03 - [69] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. Look, it's really not that hard: Red Frog and Blue Frog are both highsec only and Black Frog only uses jump freighters outside of highsec. As there were no jump freighters reimbursed, where we indeed could not tell where they were lost, all of those T1 freighter losses must have been in highsec as none of their corps use T1 freighters outside of highsec. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 354	Posted - 2016.05.05 12:03:43 - [70] - Quote Nitshe Razvedka wrote: Enough Dom, you have had your 5cents worth. Move on or you will not leave the thread with your dignity....... Listened to enough of your meerd whilst burning your last corps poco's, wished you had, of all the drop kicks, come to def. Thanks for noticing I never owned any POCOs.. They don't seem viable enough to be worth the trouble Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Dom Arkaral Axios 354	Posted - 2016.05.05 12:05:25 - [71] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. Look, it's really not that hard: Red Frog and Blue Frog are both highsec only and Black Frog only uses jump freighters outside of highsec. As there were no jump freighters reimbursed, where we indeed could not tell where they were lost, all of those T1 freighter losses must have been in highsec as none of their corps use T1 freighters outside of highsec. Who says they use t1 exclusively in HS? Logic would say so, but there are always more adventurous folks Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 184	Posted - 2016.05.05 14:02:50 - [72] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. Look, it's really not that hard: Red Frog and Blue Frog are both highsec only and Black Frog only uses jump freighters outside of highsec. As there were no jump freighters reimbursed, where we indeed could not tell where they were lost, all of those T1 freighter losses must have been in highsec as none of their corps use T1 freighters outside of highsec. Who says they use t1 exclusively in HS? Logic would say so, but there are always more adventurous folks White Frog Insurance only covers losses to ganks in continuous highsec (no highsec islands, no duels, no wardec losses) and only under certain conditions: https://sites.google.com/site/redfrogfreightmanual/conditions The statistic you quoted is only about what White Frog Insurance reimbursed, not even about how many freighters they actually lost. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dom Arkaral Axios 354	Posted - 2016.05.05 15:11:32 - [73] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. Look, it's really not that hard: Red Frog and Blue Frog are both highsec only and Black Frog only uses jump freighters outside of highsec. As there were no jump freighters reimbursed, where we indeed could not tell where they were lost, all of those T1 freighter losses must have been in highsec as none of their corps use T1 freighters outside of highsec. Who says they use t1 exclusively in HS? Logic would say so, but there are always more adventurous folks White Frog Insurance only covers losses to ganks in continuous highsec (no highsec islands, no duels, no wardec losses) and only under certain conditions: https://sites.google.com/site/redfrogfreightmanual/conditions The statistic you quoted is only about what White Frog Insurance reimbursed, not even about how many freighters they actually lost. My point of them still running efficiently even with CODE. still stands. There is no ccounter-argument to that, no matter how hard you try. And since there is nothing left to argue about here, I can confirm once more that CODE. Always Wins Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 188	Posted - 2016.05.05 17:18:27 - [74] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: My point of them still running efficiently even with CODE. still stands. There is no ccounter-argument to that, no matter how hard you try. So, your point is that only when the biggest and highly specialised hauling group that "uses every tool at their disposal to not die to CODE.", that already had to implement an insurance program due to risen ganking activity (individual haulers don't have that option) and already had to more than double their fees while citing "considerably risen ganking activity" as one of the reasons, losing ~25% of their customers and ~37% contracts issued to them in the process, becomes unprofitable, only then you're going to admit that there might be something wrong. Good thing CCP doesn't operate like that, otherwise there would be nobody left to adjust the mechanics for as all other haulers would have stopped long before this would have happened. Dom Arkaral wrote: And since there is nothing left to argue about here I agree. There really isn't anything left to discuss with you. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
John E Normus New Order Logistics CODE. 791	Posted - 2016.05.06 01:52:48 - [75] - Quote And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Tyyler DURden Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co. 255	Posted - 2016.05.06 02:41:57 - [76] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 185 is the total of their losses (Red Frog, Black Frog and Blue Frog) otherwise they would have mentionned that 185 is for RFF only. Look, it's really not that hard: Red Frog and Blue Frog are both highsec only and Black Frog only uses jump freighters outside of highsec. As there were no jump freighters reimbursed, where we indeed could not tell where they were lost, all of those T1 freighter losses must have been in highsec as none of their corps use T1 freighters outside of highsec. Who says they use t1 exclusively in HS? Logic would say so, but there are always more adventurous folks White Frog Insurance only covers losses to ganks in continuous highsec (no highsec islands, no duels, no wardec losses) and only under certain conditions: https://sites.google.com/site/redfrogfreightmanual/conditions The statistic you quoted is only about what White Frog Insurance reimbursed, not even about how many freighters they actually lost. My point of them still running efficiently even with CODE. still stands. There is no ccounter-argument to that, no matter how hard you try. And since there is nothing left to argue about here, I can confirm once more that CODE. Always Wins I never thought this day would come, but it has. I am in absolute agreement with Dom on this one. The biggest, most efficient, most non-compliant hauling corporation in eve online with not a new order permit in sight, is still running efficiently despite the fact that code has been dunking freighters in unprecedented numbers in the trade pipes for quite awhile now. There is no counter-argument to that, no matter how hard you try. Somehow, in some weirdly pyrrhic way, the code is always winning....... Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1495	Posted - 2016.05.06 17:47:27 - [77] - Quote John E Normus wrote: And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? Wait so if I go to Evesterdam I'll get to shake your hand and buy you a drink? Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
John E Normus New Order Logistics CODE. 798	Posted - 2016.05.06 18:33:12 - [78] - Quote Tengu Grib wrote: John E Normus wrote: And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? Wait so if I go to Evesterdam I'll get to shake your hand and buy you a drink? Sure, if you don't mind watching Mildron leg-humping me while he sings softly in my ear... Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1496	Posted - 2016.05.06 18:36:51 - [79] - Quote John E Normus wrote: Tengu Grib wrote: John E Normus wrote: And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? Wait so if I go to Evesterdam I'll get to shake your hand and buy you a drink? Sure, if you don't mind watching Mildron leg-humping me while he sings softly in my ear... Why would I mind that? Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
John E Normus New Order Logistics CODE. 798	Posted - 2016.05.06 19:02:29 - [80] - Quote Tengu Grib wrote: John E Normus wrote: Tengu Grib wrote: John E Normus wrote: And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? Wait so if I go to Evesterdam I'll get to shake your hand and buy you a drink? Sure, if you don't mind watching Mildron leg-humping me while he sings softly in my ear... Why would I mind that? LOL, just full disclosure and all that! Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 945	Posted - 2016.05.07 14:19:12 - [81] - Quote John, who let you out of your cage? [u]Highsec is owned by players now.[/u] Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-áAll miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code.-áMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more.
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 192	Posted - 2016.05.07 18:46:15 - [82] - Quote John E Normus wrote: And yet Red Frog is making more isk than ever according to what they've told us at eve-meets in Amsterdam and Germany. Are they lying to us Sarah? They don't publish their full finances, so that's hard to determine as an outsider. They publish the revenue situation but barely anything on the cost side. The only 2 corps that are relevant for this discussion are Red Frog Freight and Blue Frog Freight as they are their highsec wings (low collateral and high collateral contracts). Black Frog Freight is lowsec/nullsec, so it doesn't matter in our context here. If you look at the revenue numbers, especially when comparing them to the growth rates of previous years, you see that 2015 put a handbreak on their growth compared to the growth rates of previous years. Blue Frog Freight revenue even declined in 2015 for the first time. Red Frog Freight only showed tiny growth compared to previous years. Now, with more or less stagnating revenue but vastly increased cost according to their press releases about their massively increased fees, to what conclusion do you come? Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
John E Normus New Order Logistics CODE. 803	Posted - 2016.05.07 21:48:34 - [83] - Quote That hauling is a business and business is good. Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 945	Posted - 2016.05.08 05:52:15 - [84] - Quote I would conclude that the Code always wins. Always. Especially arguments with Sarah Flynt. [u]Highsec is owned by players now.[/u] Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-áAll miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code.-áMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more.
eddie valvetino Snuff Box Snuffed Out 175	Posted - 2016.05.09 12:53:01 - [85] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. If you had more mates you would have more deeps and this wouldn't be a problem this sounds a lot like the age old Carebear whine "CCP there is something I don't like change the game to suit me"
Dom Arkaral Axios 389	Posted - 2016.05.10 00:27:54 - [86] - Quote John E Normus wrote: That hauling is a business and business is good. Is that what you do nowadays? been awhile since I saw you gank something bigger than a diner Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
PhantomMajor High Flyers Northern Coalition. 58	Posted - 2016.06.15 07:11:01 - [87] - Quote Sasha Cohenberg wrote: Ozzie Udan wrote: Tyyler DURden wrote: Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about. Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious. It's only a nerf to ransoming scum pirates , sorry you need to work a bit harder. Tyyler DURden is right Facetious is a word that fits well here. Getting donations from other haulers is a time honored tradition in highsec Demanding a ransom requires thought, some planning and effort, where as mashing the function keys after you lock a freighter doesn't. ...hence why ransoming is a dying/dead art form imo
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2598	Posted - 2016.06.15 11:03:03 - [88] - Quote Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Crinnfika Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.06.15 21:53:39 - [89] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. Freight contracts have never been about risk or safety. Freight contracts exist for the same reason FedEx exists in the real world: Paying someone else to haul my stuff is infinitely more convenient than hauling the stuff myself. Every person in the game has the power to haul their own goods and no you don't need a freighter either. People pay Red Frog because they don't want to have to spend the time to haul it.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1764	Posted - 2016.06.16 08:40:15 - [90] - Quote Crinnfika wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. Freight contracts have never been about risk or safety. Freight contracts exist for the same reason FedEx exists in the real world: Paying someone else to haul my stuff is infinitely more convenient than hauling the stuff myself. Every person in the game has the power to haul their own goods and no you don't need a freighter either. People pay Red Frog because they don't want to have to spend the time to haul it. Absolutely this... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3162	Posted - 2016.06.16 08:47:07 - [91] - Quote you could always come fight your war targets if you think you gonna lose content FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1764	Posted - 2016.06.16 09:07:50 - [92] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. So in affect you cannot afford more than two accounts to do your ransom business so you cry about it. Get some more friends or get another account. I am fine with the timer being re-set, at the end of the day I think that balance is about right, but you want 5 minutes so you can just keep them there no change and no extra cost for you. Pathetic... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3163	Posted - 2016.06.16 09:27:20 - [93] - Quote code are crying a lot these days FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1765	Posted - 2016.06.16 10:00:29 - [94] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2604	Posted - 2016.06.16 11:42:43 - [95] - Quote Crinnfika wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. Freight contracts have never been about risk or safety. Freight contracts exist for the same reason FedEx exists in the real world: Paying someone else to haul my stuff is infinitely more convenient than hauling the stuff myself. Every person in the game has the power to haul their own goods and no you don't need a freighter either. People pay Red Frog because they don't want to have to spend the time to haul it. I am sure that convenience is a strong driver for people to use Freighter contracts, but it isn't the only one. And in a time where you can have hauling alts on free accounts (sell accumulated SP) this reason isn't as strong as it was. If there was no risk at all and you could just AFK-AP your stuff it would be almost equally convenient to haul stuff yourself as it is to use a Freighter service, no attention is needed anymore, also it would be a lot cheaper. So even this is connected to risk. I have heard a lot of people mentioning risk as the deciding factor of why they use Freighter services. Freighter contracts can work similar to an insurance and that is how they are often used. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2605	Posted - 2016.06.16 11:47:04 - [96] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days Wow Lan. Did not think you get so upset about a wardec. You also probably know that I am a -10 char, so I don't care abut wars very much :-) the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 499	Posted - 2016.06.16 11:51:00 - [97] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder Show me on the barge where His Holiness James 315 touched you Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3163	Posted - 2016.06.16 11:54:22 - [98] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days Wow Lan. Did not think you get so upset about a wardec. You also probably know that I am a -10 char, so I don't care abut wars very much :-) why would i be upset? ill be upset if you dont bring the fight :) nevermind poppet we are all pirates you dont need to worry about being -10 in lowsec FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 499	Posted - 2016.06.16 12:24:02 - [99] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days Wow Lan. Did not think you get so upset about a wardec. You also probably know that I am a -10 char, so I don't care abut wars very much :-) why would i be upset? ill be upset if you dont bring the fight :) nevermind poppet we are all pirates you dont need to worry about being -10 in lowsec every carebear ever wrote: bla bla bla but CODE. doesn't go to lowsec bla bla bla I remember when loyal would camp pyne with a handful of others to catch randoms I still try to imagine their reactions lol Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3163	Posted - 2016.06.16 12:31:52 - [100] - Quote well loyal's killboard does show flying around lowsec FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Crinnfika Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.06.16 13:34:57 - [101] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Crinnfika wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. Freight contracts have never been about risk or safety. Freight contracts exist for the same reason FedEx exists in the real world: Paying someone else to haul my stuff is infinitely more convenient than hauling the stuff myself. Every person in the game has the power to haul their own goods and no you don't need a freighter either. People pay Red Frog because they don't want to have to spend the time to haul it. I am sure that convenience is a strong driver for people to use Freighter contracts, but it isn't the only one. And in a time where you can have hauling alts on free accounts (sell accumulated SP) this reason isn't as strong as it was. If there was no risk at all and you could just AFK-AP your stuff it would be almost equally convenient to haul stuff yourself as it is to use a Freighter service, no attention is needed anymore, also it would be a lot cheaper. So even this is connected to risk. I have heard a lot of people mentioning risk as the deciding factor of why they use Freighter services. Freighter contracts can work similar to an insurance and that is how they are often used. Having a freighter alt only makes sense if the person needs to use a freighter on a consistent and frequent basis. For the 95% of the game that doesn't need a freighter that often it makes zero economic sense to have a freighter alt, particularly given how expensive a freighter is and how time consuming the training is.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2557	Posted - 2016.06.16 14:01:19 - [102] - Quote Crinnfika wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Crinnfika wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Why would you even use Red Frog if Freighters where completely save in Highsec? You just load your Freighter and some (thanks to skill injectors free2play) NPC corp alt ships the stuff AFK-AP to the location. There is no opportunity cost anymore if you can get free freighter alts and zero attention is needed. The Red Frog business model in Higshec is only alive because there is a healthy amount of ganking. It creates an environment where you may lose your stuff and paying someone to ship your stuff for a fee with a collateral is a great way to mitigate that risk. If that risk goes away, so will Red Frogs customers. It is really quite simple. The more risk there is the more money there will be for enterprises who specialize in shipping your goods and who know how to mitigate their own risk. Freight contracts have never been about risk or safety. Freight contracts exist for the same reason FedEx exists in the real world: Paying someone else to haul my stuff is infinitely more convenient than hauling the stuff myself. Every person in the game has the power to haul their own goods and no you don't need a freighter either. People pay Red Frog because they don't want to have to spend the time to haul it. I am sure that convenience is a strong driver for people to use Freighter contracts, but it isn't the only one. And in a time where you can have hauling alts on free accounts (sell accumulated SP) this reason isn't as strong as it was. If there was no risk at all and you could just AFK-AP your stuff it would be almost equally convenient to haul stuff yourself as it is to use a Freighter service, no attention is needed anymore, also it would be a lot cheaper. So even this is connected to risk. I have heard a lot of people mentioning risk as the deciding factor of why they use Freighter services. Freighter contracts can work similar to an insurance and that is how they are often used. Having a freighter alt only makes sense if the person needs to use a freighter on a consistent and frequent basis. For the 95% of the game that doesn't need a freighter that often it makes zero economic sense to have a freighter alt, particularly given how expensive a freighter is and how time consuming the training is. Freighter contracts have always had safety as an integral part, as does mining. New Eden has no area, by design, that is safe. That risk is what makes hauling and mining professions in the sandbox rather than a simple exercise in solving the maximum yield/cargo once and pressing a button for reward. Eve is a Player vs. Player game, not a Player vs. boredom game and having to account for the risk that other players present is part of the core design. You assert something that isn't true. Accounting for and mitigating risk is suppose to be an important part of hauling profession and always has been. That's why we have collateral to allow players to transfer the risk of loss to one another. Humans are bad at estimating risk, especially of rare events. Short-sighted view like yours are probably why I can ship billions of ISK worth of cargo between the trade hubs each day for peanuts yet once or twice a month some poor hauler fails a contract of mine after being ganked and has to absorb a multi-billion ISK loss. Whenever this happens I shake my head and feel bad for them, but only for a bit until I click the 'Fail Contract' button and get a big ISK payout for my over-collateralized cargo which returns a smile to my face. Why Do They Gank?
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 1809	Posted - 2016.06.16 14:08:22 - [103] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. adapt or die? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1766	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:06:24 - [104] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder Show me on the barge where His Holiness James 315 touched you Actually I found it rather amusing that he was crying over can baiting... And the only holy thing about James315 is his vest, and Dom try not to use that child **** reference, its not very funny... EDIT: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26201	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:27:52 - [105] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... Collateral is a "guarantee" that you'll get paid if something goes amiss; in banking collateral for a secured loan is often worth more than the loan itself (25-50% more depending on what you want the loan for and how good your credit is). If you default, the bank gets their money back and then some by selling the collateral. With that in mind please explain, how is over collateralization, which is very much a legitimate business practice in the real world, a scam in a virtual one? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1766	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:37:53 - [106] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... Collateral is a "guarantee" that you'll get paid if something goes amiss; in banking collateral for a secured loan is often worth more than the loan itself (25-50% more depending on what you want the loan for and how good your credit is). If you default, the bank gets their money back and then some by selling the collateral. With that in mind please explain, how is over collateralization, which is very much a legitimate business practice in the real world, a scam in a virtual one? Are you making a real life comparison here, tut tut. One that is in fact totally irrelevant in terms of Courier contracts as currently no valuation of the goods carried is made, a bank is hardly going to loan an unknown amount are they? But this is going off topic, suggest you wait for it to happen first. EDIT: The courier will at least be able to assess whether this is a real contract or not, perfect... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 501	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:46:18 - [107] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder Show me on the barge where His Holiness James 315 touched you Actually I found it rather amusing that he was crying over can baiting... And the only holy thing about James315 is his vest, and Dom try not to use that child **** reference, its not very funny... EDIT: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... I did not mention kids anywhere. I definitely hit a very sensitive nerve of yours though. CODE. were can baiters in the beginning... but I guess you already knew that. That nerf had the same effect on him and other baiters than the recent watchlist changes had on mercs Highsec is stagnant at this stage... just waiting for that final blow Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2558	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:56:21 - [108] - Quote My contracts are all legit but over-collaterialized to cover the disruption to my industrial and trading operations. I usually try for 25-40% which compensates me for my time to re-buy all the goods lost to the hauler's carelessness. It makes hauling into a no-lose situation as you get either the goods delivered on time or a nice cash bonus. It's not hard to build in a good cushion of extra collateral given how cheaply haulers are willing to work. It's like they don't value their time or understand the risk, or perhaps like they have some sort of brain damage to take on all that risk for next-to-no reward. Why Do They Gank?
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1766	Posted - 2016.06.16 15:56:57 - [109] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder Show me on the barge where His Holiness James 315 touched you Actually I found it rather amusing that he was crying over can baiting... And the only holy thing about James315 is his vest, and Dom try not to use that child **** reference, its not very funny... EDIT: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... I did not mention kids anywhere. I definitely hit a very sensitive nerve of yours though. CODE. were can baiters in the beginning... but I guess you already knew that. That nerf had the same effect on him and other baiters than the recent watchlist changes had on mercs Highsec is stagnant at this stage... just waiting for that final blow Dom, I suggested that you don't use that FBI question, its a bit meh and makes you look a bit sad in the head, personally I think its your choice whether you want people like me to think you are meh for trying to be funny over that expression, and you know it refers to kids. I come from the old school of freedom of expression, you can say what you want, but I can sit there and think what a plonker you are for saying it, that works for me. Yes CODE were can baiters and James315 he of the holy vest was most put out, tears were heard to have fallen from what I was told. I find that rather amusing. In terms of war dec entities, they were mainly doing pipe and hub camping before that happened in any case, but I expect or hope that CCP create some sort of observatory structure that gives that sort of data on war targets in a constellation. Salut mon ami! COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26201	Posted - 2016.06.16 16:01:56 - [110] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Are you making a real life comparison here, tut tut. Yes I am, while not directly relevant to Eve it is an example of something that you've labelled as being a scam actually being a legitimate business practice in the real world. There is a difference between making an apt comparision with the real world and Quote: it's One that is in fact totally irrelevant in terms of Courier contracts as currently no valuation of the goods carried is made, If you want a more relevant one we'll take a look at postal insurance, do you undervalue anything valuable that you send by post, or do you say that it's worth more than it is so that if something goes amiss you get the value of the posted object back + some extra for the inconvenience? In the case of the postal service the promise of collateral is provided by their insurers, the estimated value is determined by you, the sender, just as it is in Eve. Quote: a bank is hardly going to loan an unknown amount are they?[quote]A courier contract collateral amount is not an unknown, it's stated clearly for all to see in the contract, if it's too rich for you then you don't take the contract. [quote]The courier will at least be able to assess whether this is a real contract or not, perfect... If a courier can see the value of the goods being shipped, which in itself is open to manipulation as has been proved in the past during the FW screwup, what is to stop them breaking open any under collateralized contracts and keeping the stuff for themselves, using the collateral they pay out for failing a contract to essentially purchase the contents of the contract for under market value? Once again, I ask you how is a widespread and legitimate business practice in both the real world and Eve a scam? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1766	Posted - 2016.06.16 16:08:06 - [111] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: A courier contract collateral amount is not an unknown, it's stated clearly for all to see in the contract, if it's too rich for you then you don't take the contract. You are trying too hard mate, when does collateral become the value of the items, silly reply, just silly... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26201	Posted - 2016.06.16 16:16:51 - [112] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: A courier contract collateral amount is not an unknown, it's stated clearly for all to see in the contract, if it's too rich for you then you don't take the contract. You are trying too hard mate, when does collateral become the value of the items, silly reply, just silly... You do know what collateral in terms of hauling in Eve is don't you? It's a security deposit that covers the replacement of goods lost in transit; as such it is intrinsically linked to the "value" of the goods, said "value" often includes an inconvenience overhead and is determined by the sender. Are you going to answer my question, namely "How is it a scam?" or are you going to prevaricate as per your usual modus operandi? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Sequester Risalo Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd. 210	Posted - 2016.06.17 08:29:20 - [113] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. I don't get this. Reading the code propaganda site I would assume that they always win, always. Now it seems "always" only means that they win "in favourable circumstances"? Now thats a catchy phrase: The code wins in favourable circumstances.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 994	Posted - 2016.06.17 13:53:40 - [114] - Quote Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3170	Posted - 2016.06.17 14:01:38 - [115] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 14:16:32 - [116] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? Afaik CODE. never got any buffs, only nerfs so that highsec can become like Hello Kitty Online Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1770	Posted - 2016.06.17 14:57:44 - [117] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? Afaik CODE. never got any buffs, only nerfs so that highsec can become like Hello Kitty Online OK shall I start listing them: Destroyer damage buff - massive affect that one because CCP took an age to adjust the mining ships tanks. Bumping allowed by CCP aka the thread in C&P Bowhead created Fleet hanger in DST Wreck EHP buff, AG shrugged and said fair one that Ruling that Hyperdunking was allowed resulting in massive ganking campaign Tags in low sec to enable security status to be quickly changed to positive Skill injectors enabling gankers to create new gankers very quickly Citadel tethering enabling gankers to sit ready in space without being shot by faction police I am sure I missed some others, yes some of them have now been nerfed. Which you count as a nerf only. The change to structure EHP via the DCU II was not done due to ganking but for other reasons The Watchlist change was because of watch lists stopping major fleet fights And this change to bumping which is long overdue because you could effectively point someone with no consequences for hours is adjusting a stupid mechanic. At the end of the day all the OP has to do is have a third account for suicide pointers and he can still ransom as the point will re-set the timer, not our fault he is too fail to do that... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 15:16:23 - [118] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? Afaik CODE. never got any buffs, only nerfs so that highsec can become like Hello Kitty Online OK shall I start listing them: Destroyer damage buff - massive affect that one because CCP took an age to adjust the mining ships tanks. Bumping allowed by CCP aka the thread in C&P Bowhead created Fleet hanger in DST Wreck EHP buff, AG shrugged and said fair one that Ruling that Hyperdunking was allowed resulting in massive ganking campaign Tags in low sec to enable security status to be quickly changed to positive Skill injectors enabling gankers to create new gankers very quickly Citadel tethering enabling gankers to sit ready in space without being shot by faction police I am sure I missed some others, yes some of them have now been nerfed. Which you count as a nerf only. The change to structure EHP via the DCU II was not done due to ganking but for other reasons The Watchlist change was because of watch lists stopping major fleet fights And this change to bumping which is long overdue because you could effectively point someone with no consequences for hours is adjusting a stupid mechanic. At the end of the day all the OP has to do is have a third account for suicide pointers and he can still ransom as the point will re-set the timer, not our fault he is too fail to do that... Hyperdunking is a banale offense. Bumping got nerfed (or is getting nerfed) to 3 minutes. And the rest of your points affect all the player base. Citadels are in lowsec too, and there are more -10.0 toons down there than is HS as well None of the other points were requested by CODE. members but hey... nice try lmao Arguments invalidated. GG no re Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3174	Posted - 2016.06.17 15:32:37 - [119] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? Afaik CODE. never got any buffs, only nerfs so that highsec can become like Hello Kitty Online hasn't highsec always been hello kitty online? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1770	Posted - 2016.06.17 15:39:01 - [120] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Hyperdunking is a banale offense. Bumping got nerfed (or is getting nerfed) to 3 minutes. And the rest of your points affect all the player base. Citadels are in lowsec too, and there are more -10.0 toons down there than is HS as well None of the other points were requested by CODE. members but hey... nice try lmao Arguments invalidated. GG no re Oh my god that was a funny reply Don't think I have the heart to pick that to pieces... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 15:42:19 - [121] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? Afaik CODE. never got any buffs, only nerfs so that highsec can become like Hello Kitty Online hasn't highsec always been hello kitty online? A long time ago it was a little dangerous :P Now it's numb Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 15:45:57 - [122] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Hyperdunking is a banale offense. Bumping got nerfed (or is getting nerfed) to 3 minutes. And the rest of your points affect all the player base. Citadels are in lowsec too, and there are more -10.0 toons down there than is HS as well None of the other points were requested by CODE. members but hey... nice try lmao Arguments invalidated. GG no re Oh my god that was a funny reply Don't think I have the heart to pick that to pieces... Impress me with that epeen You should probably look at it directly, instead of looking at it in the mirror... Because objects in the mirror are smaller than they appear Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 994	Posted - 2016.06.17 16:00:13 - [123] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? If anything I'm crying for less severe nerfs... What buffs have I requested? *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1770	Posted - 2016.06.17 16:23:25 - [124] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Oh we have always won regardless of unfavorable circumstances and will continue to win regardless of how hard butthurt carebears cry for more nerfs. by crying for buffs? If anything I'm crying for less severe nerfs... What buffs have I requested? Actually you are asking for the nerf to be diluted so that it has no real impact, as all you will need is a bumper and a second account made up of three suicide alts which can cover their use, meaning thst you can operate as you were before. We go from no consequences to meaningless consequences, even with the three minutes its still meaningless consequences, but you have to have three accounts to cover it. So in fact you want your meaningless consequence method of pointing people indefinately. If people like me can accept that the point re-sets the timer, you can accept to have to have one more account, or have more friends. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7786	Posted - 2016.06.17 16:56:09 - [125] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: code are crying a lot these days They certainly are, they want to emulate their founder Show me on the barge where His Holiness James 315 touched you Actually I found it rather amusing that he was crying over can baiting... And the only holy thing about James315 is his vest, and Dom try not to use that child **** reference, its not very funny... EDIT: A little bird told me that the collateral scam is going to end with a collateral calculator which shows how far above the real value it is... CODE has been nothing more than one big whine. TEARS was all about singling out a miner or mission runner and aggressing that one person and then either killing their ship alone or bringing in RR too. It all depended on the situation. Then of course the "blame the victim" routine. CCP approached that problem with a player solution. Crimewatch and loot abandonment. You see a lot of mission runners decided that they didn't need the loot anyway so they ignored the ninjas or took to shooting the wrecks. Funny thing was, if you didn't bother with the ninja, that was tears because the nefarious nabobs would just as well assume it "Oh look they sooooo buttmad they didn't do anything I'm so leet!" or if they shot the wrecks "Oh look they so buttmad they shot the wrecks and lost ISK from modules and salvage I'm so leet!". I read their posts and blogs. They were like that creepy cousin that would think every girl at the party wanted him, regardless of the interactions. But ignoring them was not enough. I have seen the tactics. Get aggressed, line up with a target. CCP fixed that too with NPC AI improvements. But the biggest insult was probably loot abandonment - a final proof that yes indeed the mission runner never wanted that loot anyway and all those tears of the past were null and void. Crimewatch was also painful for them: it meant that other PVPers could attack them. That was the last thing they wanted. It was all about using a PVP fit against a mission fit and still calling it PVP. It was also all about the joys of gaslighting and blaming the victims in forums and in local. Acting all coy about it, seeing what buttons they can push further and further and further. Meta jollies. And they call these "nerfs" too. The butthurt brigades would turn to suicide ganking. GMs said "Find a way to make this role-playing or game related or else" so they had to come up with mining permits. This has been admitted to numerous times. But long before CODE. even old school suicide gankers (people have been doing it since 2003 BTW) said it was rather odd that you can get an insurance payout for a criminal act. It was also rather odd that an industrial ship was made of paper. If you put 7 friends in a car armed with small rifles and attempted to take out a really huge truck you might damage it but you won't destroy it. The same was said about wreck HP and nobody cried. I would say the TEARS guys have been crying since the start of CODE. as CODE. is a monument towards it. And CODE. does not always win. Things are not going well for CODE as we can see here, here, and here. and they even have to change how they do things "because of us" - do we get to say "ooooh they must be buttmad having to play the game differently!! I'm so leet! Notice me Senpai!!!" I'm curious. As CODE. find themselves not the only "PVPers" in highsec and AG learns to gank and bump, what will the next endeavor be? Where will they all go next? I assumed they would resort to highsec deccing but there are already merc players, apt to deal with targets that do fight back, already scratching and clawing for that content, with the CEOs constantly under the challenge of "keeping the members interested", a situation made worse by removal of watch lists. But... but.... miner bumping is not ganking! And was bumping freighters. And has been said before: bumping a freighter may or may not be involved with ganking it, but freighters have been bumped for over an hour at times. And it was possible to bump a freighter all day without consequences. That was bad mechanic. Just like all wrecks having 500 HP (something I was taking advantage of and getting some very salty CODE. tears from BTW), just like insurance payouts for criminal acts. Maybe Emperium is hiring. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 17:01:05 - [126] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: tears more tears alot of tears even more tears do you post stuff that's actually not tears about CODE. being better at making content than you? at this point I don't think anyone bothers reading your posts as they always end up in "grr CODE. they do better than me so I has to try and make them look bad" Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7786	Posted - 2016.06.17 17:02:39 - [127] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: tears more tears alot of tears even more tears do you post stuff that's actually not tears about CODE. being better at making content than you? at this point I don't think anyone bothers reading your posts as they always end up in "grr CODE. they do better than me so I has to try and make them look bad" I expected you to go full creepy cousin. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 505	Posted - 2016.06.17 17:05:44 - [128] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: tears more tears alot of tears even more tears do you post stuff that's actually not tears about CODE. being better at making content than you? at this point I don't think anyone bothers reading your posts as they always end up in "grr CODE. they do better than me so I has to try and make them look bad" I expected you to go full creepy cousin. Expect the unexpected That's the only thing you can or can't expect from me Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 996	Posted - 2016.06.17 20:01:08 - [129] - Quote "The butthurt brigades would turn to suicide ganking. GMs said "Find a way to make this role-playing or game related or else" so they had to come up with mining permits. This has been admitted to numerous times. ". This is soooooo false! Why do people still think this crap? You do not need any kind of reason or justification to shoot another person's spaceship in this spaceship-shooting game. Why can't people get this through their skulls?! Ask a GM, please! A suicide gank does not needs to be profitable in any way, and it most certainly doesn't have to be "role-playing or game related" (whatever that means). I hear this all the time from the carebears I kill: "all this New Order stuff is just an excuse to gank people!!1" Trust me folks, we don't need an excuse to kill your retriever, we have plenty of good reasons to kill retrievers, but we don't need a single one of them. If you wanna kill a retriever for lols or because you're in a bad mood today and a pretty explosion would cheer you up, go for it! I say again: It is not against the rules to blow up spaceships in this spaceship blowing-up game. Herzog, one would think that as much as you like to post about EVE on forums, that you'd actually take the time to learn what you're talking about. Please educate yourself about the rules of EVE Online and stop misinforming people, thank you. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7789	Posted - 2016.06.17 20:26:49 - [130] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: "The butthurt brigades would turn to suicide ganking. GMs said "Find a way to make this role-playing or game related or else" so they had to come up with mining permits. This has been admitted to numerous times. ". This is soooooo false! Why do people still think this crap? You do not need any kind of reason or justification to shoot another person's spaceship in this spaceship-shooting game. Why can't people get this through their skulls?! Ask a GM, please! A suicide gank does not needs to be profitable in any way, and it most certainly doesn't have to be "role-playing or game related" (whatever that means). I hear this all the time from the carebears I kill: "all this New Order stuff is just an excuse to gank people!!1" Trust me folks, we don't need an excuse to kill your retriever, we have plenty of good reasons to kill retrievers, but we don't need a single one of them. If you wanna kill a retriever for lols or because you're in a bad mood today and a pretty explosion would cheer you up, go for it! I say again: It is not against the rules to blow up spaceships in this spaceship blowing-up game. Herzog, one would think that as much as you like to post about EVE on forums, that you'd actually take the time to learn what you're talking about. Please educate yourself about the rules of EVE Online and stop misinforming people, thank you. Osmon LOCAL June 3rd 2016: Quote: 62.[07:01:06] Liek DarZ > We would prefer not havnig to demand the 10m, but GMs told us to. 63.[07:01:10] Liek DarZ > We comply, of course 64.[07:01:24] guigui lechat > GMs told you to ? 65.[07:01:35] Polarchewbacca Wookie > careful the guy never lies 66.[07:01:38] Liek DarZ > GMs back then asked us to demand some monetary gains in addition to just following our set of rules. So we ask for the low amount of 10m, stable for years now already. That should show we do not have money in mind really, right? 67.[07:01:52] Liek DarZ > not me personally, but yes, James 315 was told back then. 68.[07:01:56] Church Lady > Hmmm. That IS special 69.[07:02:03] Liek DarZ > so he had to charge for his permits now 70.[07:02:15] Church Lady > Did you even have permits before that? 71.[07:02:19] guigui lechat > 10M is a lot for noobies 72.[07:02:22] Liek DarZ > James 315 did 73.[07:02:36] Liek DarZ > The Knights of the New Order followed later 74.[07:02:50] Liek DarZ > And here we are. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Crinnfika Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.06.17 20:26:59 - [131] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: I really don't get why you think you're entitled to an aggression free tackle mechanism for a certain ship class when all other forms of piracy simply accept the fact that they can't do certain things when having a security status below -5. I never said I was. But the balancing of the massive EHP against the binary nature of the CONCORD mechanic is problematic. It is the exact reason that the other capital ships are not allowed into highsec - the EHP is just too high for a DPS race game mechanic to be feasible and thus they would be invulnerable. The reason capitals are not allowed in highsec has nothing to do with EHP vs concord. You could totally highsec gank capitals. You'd just need something bigger than a gang of cheap fit catalysts. Captials are not allowed in highsec because CCP doesn't want highsec to become a giant staging ground for nullsec alliances, which is what would happen if capitals where allowed in highsec.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 997	Posted - 2016.06.17 21:37:45 - [132] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: "The butthurt brigades would turn to suicide ganking. GMs said "Find a way to make this role-playing or game related or else" so they had to come up with mining permits. This has been admitted to numerous times. ". This is soooooo false! Why do people still think this crap? You do not need any kind of reason or justification to shoot another person's spaceship in this spaceship-shooting game. Why can't people get this through their skulls?! Ask a GM, please! A suicide gank does not needs to be profitable in any way, and it most certainly doesn't have to be "role-playing or game related" (whatever that means). I hear this all the time from the carebears I kill: "all this New Order stuff is just an excuse to gank people!!1" Trust me folks, we don't need an excuse to kill your retriever, we have plenty of good reasons to kill retrievers, but we don't need a single one of them. If you wanna kill a retriever for lols or because you're in a bad mood today and a pretty explosion would cheer you up, go for it! I say again: It is not against the rules to blow up spaceships in this spaceship blowing-up game. Herzog, one would think that as much as you like to post about EVE on forums, that you'd actually take the time to learn what you're talking about. Please educate yourself about the rules of EVE Online and stop misinforming people, thank you. Osmon LOCAL June 3rd 2016: Quote: [07:01:06] Liek DarZ > We would prefer not havnig to demand the 10m, but GMs told us to. [07:01:10] Liek DarZ > We comply, of course [07:01:24] guigui lechat > GMs told you to ? [07:01:35] Polarchewbacca Wookie > careful the guy never lies [07:01:38] Liek DarZ > GMs back then asked us to demand some monetary gains in addition to just following our set of rules. So we ask for the low amount of 10m, stable for years now already. That should show we do not have money in mind really, right? [07:01:52] Liek DarZ > not me personally, but yes, James 315 was told back then. [07:01:56] Church Lady > Hmmm. That IS special [07:02:03] Liek DarZ > so he had to charge for his permits now [07:02:15] Church Lady > Did you even have permits before that? [07:02:19] guigui lechat > 10M is a lot for noobies [07:02:22] Liek DarZ > James 315 did [07:02:36] Liek DarZ > The Knights of the New Order followed later [07:02:50] Liek DarZ > And here we are. I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7790	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:04:48 - [133] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? The one you are desperately projecting on people you hate for no reason. Whatever happened to you IRL, I'm glad it didn't happen to me. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3179	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:09:39 - [134] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: "The butthurt brigades would turn to suicide ganking. GMs said "Find a way to make this role-playing or game related or else" so they had to come up with mining permits. This has been admitted to numerous times. ". This is soooooo false! Why do people still think this crap? You do not need any kind of reason or justification to shoot another person's spaceship in this spaceship-shooting game. Why can't people get this through their skulls?! Ask a GM, please! A suicide gank does not needs to be profitable in any way, and it most certainly doesn't have to be "role-playing or game related" (whatever that means). I hear this all the time from the carebears I kill: "all this New Order stuff is just an excuse to gank people!!1" Trust me folks, we don't need an excuse to kill your retriever, we have plenty of good reasons to kill retrievers, but we don't need a single one of them. If you wanna kill a retriever for lols or because you're in a bad mood today and a pretty explosion would cheer you up, go for it! I say again: It is not against the rules to blow up spaceships in this spaceship blowing-up game. Herzog, one would think that as much as you like to post about EVE on forums, that you'd actually take the time to learn what you're talking about. Please educate yourself about the rules of EVE Online and stop misinforming people, thank you. Osmon LOCAL June 3rd 2016: Quote: [07:01:06] Liek DarZ > We would prefer not havnig to demand the 10m, but GMs told us to. [07:01:10] Liek DarZ > We comply, of course [07:01:24] guigui lechat > GMs told you to ? [07:01:35] Polarchewbacca Wookie > careful the guy never lies [07:01:38] Liek DarZ > GMs back then asked us to demand some monetary gains in addition to just following our set of rules. So we ask for the low amount of 10m, stable for years now already. That should show we do not have money in mind really, right? [07:01:52] Liek DarZ > not me personally, but yes, James 315 was told back then. [07:01:56] Church Lady > Hmmm. That IS special [07:02:03] Liek DarZ > so he had to charge for his permits now [07:02:15] Church Lady > Did you even have permits before that? [07:02:19] guigui lechat > 10M is a lot for noobies [07:02:22] Liek DarZ > James 315 did [07:02:36] Liek DarZ > The Knights of the New Order followed later [07:02:50] Liek DarZ > And here we are. I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." who is james 315 and why do we never see him or hear from him apart from these silly soundclouds he does. where is he? ps. you sound really angry FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1776	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:12:37 - [135] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." No, he agreed that to make sure that your ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. I have no attitude whether it be right or wrong, it just is and I fight it in game which for me is fun. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3180	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:21:33 - [136] - Quote your asking for the op because code is dying and you cant get the numbers anymore, everything relevant on your killboard is all goons and 1 code. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 507	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:22:12 - [137] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: [07:01:06] Liek DarZ > We would prefer not havnig to demand the 10m, but GMs told us to. [07:01:10] Liek DarZ > We comply, of course [07:01:24] guigui lechat > GMs told you to ? [07:01:35] Polarchewbacca Wookie > careful the guy never lies [07:01:38] Liek DarZ > GMs back then asked us to demand some monetary gains in addition to just following our set of rules. So we ask for the low amount of 10m, stable for years now already. That should show we do not have money in mind really, right? [07:01:52] Liek DarZ > not me personally, but yes, James 315 was told back then. [07:01:56] Church Lady > Hmmm. That IS special [07:02:03] Liek DarZ > so he had to charge for his permits now [07:02:15] Church Lady > Did you even have permits before that? [07:02:19] guigui lechat > 10M is a lot for noobies [07:02:22] Liek DarZ > James 315 did [07:02:36] Liek DarZ > The Knights of the New Order followed later [07:02:50] Liek DarZ > And here we are. Aren't chatlogs forbidden unless they're in the Pirate Story thread? With names omitted? Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread. Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. Read the rules lmao Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 998	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:44:45 - [138] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." No, he agreed that to make sure that your ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. I have no attitude whether it be right or wrong, it just is and I fight it in game which for me is fun. Ganking can never be "defined as simple griefing" because a killmail counts as an in-game reward or benefit. That's what I keep trying to tell you forum-dwellers but you just just can't seem to comprehend it. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 998	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:52:07 - [139] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? The one you are desperately projecting on people you hate for no reason. Whatever happened to you IRL, I'm glad it didn't happen to me. So you're officially copping-out of the argument now because I've cornered you? No attempt to justify your nonsense? Please stop making things up and splerging them all over EVE -O, there are literally dozens of people on this forum you could be misinforming. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3180	Posted - 2016.06.17 22:58:25 - [140] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? The one you are desperately projecting on people you hate for no reason. Whatever happened to you IRL, I'm glad it didn't happen to me. So you're officially copping-out of the argument now because I've cornered you? No attempt to justify your nonsense? Please stop making things up and splerging them all over EVE -O, there are literally dozens of people on this forum you could be misinforming. where do you and all your friends live? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 333	Posted - 2016.06.17 23:02:37 - [141] - Quote Ahahahaha LOOOL DEAL WITH IT. You don't need 3 minutes. You need 28 bombers and 25 seconds. Get gud or get out.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 998	Posted - 2016.06.17 23:05:35 - [142] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? The one you are desperately projecting on people you hate for no reason. Whatever happened to you IRL, I'm glad it didn't happen to me. So you're officially copping-out of the argument now because I've cornered you? No attempt to justify your nonsense? Please stop making things up and splerging them all over EVE -O, there are literally dozens of people on this forum you could be misinforming. where do you and all your friends live? Tulsa, Oklahoma? If you're ever in town drop me a line and we'll have a pint m8! :D *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7790	Posted - 2016.06.17 23:27:23 - [143] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? The one you are desperately projecting on people you hate for no reason. Whatever happened to you IRL, I'm glad it didn't happen to me. So you're officially copping-out of the argument now because I've cornered you? No attempt to justify your nonsense? Please stop making things up and splerging them all over EVE -O, there are literally dozens of people on this forum you could be misinforming. You feel cornered and now will make the charge of me being cornered. I already proved you wrong. See how you project? CODE. is one big projection. You are in highsec for the same reason your prey is. Only you are the butthurt one. Sorry your feelings got hurt there. But you need to learn how to deal with that. I see you guys are already moving to bombers and citadel jump offs. But don't be in the forums in a month after the change saying "SEE we adapted CODE wins again! HURF BLURF". We predicted the same day this change was announced but I'm sure you'll project something regardless. EDIT: Tulsa. LOL. No wonder. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 999	Posted - 2016.06.18 01:05:58 - [144] - Quote Lol I love how in carebear world "Liek Darz said it, so it must be true." *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1000	Posted - 2016.06.18 02:42:14 - [145] - Quote Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 335	Posted - 2016.06.18 04:38:09 - [146] - Quote I concur. You are most certainly keeping us entertained. The Order emerges victorious once again, providing much needed content for the mindless hordes of forumbears!
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1777	Posted - 2016.06.18 07:35:25 - [147] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." No, he agreed that to make sure that your ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. I have no attitude whether it be right or wrong, it just is and I fight it in game which for me is fun. Ganking can never be "defined as simple griefing" because a killmail counts as an in-game reward or benefit. That's what I keep trying to tell you forum-dwellers but you just just can't seem to comprehend it. No, he agreed that to make sure that your campaign of ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. Just to repeat the sentence with the addition of "campaign of" ro make it clearer which is obviously not about just ganking... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3184	Posted - 2016.06.18 08:27:02 - [148] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone You didnt answer my question, where is this james 315 that you all worship FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
eddie valvetino Snuff Box Snuffed Out 211	Posted - 2016.06.18 12:40:45 - [149] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. Perhaps if you weren't playing Eve PvP on easy mode, you would have more friends and there for more ships and more dps.. just saying Also, if you are no grid for longer than 3 mins... why can you not fit scrams? Perhaps your base level of "PvP" as yet to come across this most basic of offensive mods
Rogwar Toralen EVE University Ivy League 22	Posted - 2016.06.18 17:12:47 - [150] - Quote Have they implemented that 3 minute thing yet?
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1002	Posted - 2016.06.18 17:33:34 - [151] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." No, he agreed that to make sure that your ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. I have no attitude whether it be right or wrong, it just is and I fight it in game which for me is fun. Ganking can never be "defined as simple griefing" because a killmail counts as an in-game reward or benefit. That's what I keep trying to tell you forum-dwellers but you just just can't seem to comprehend it. No, he agreed that to make sure that your campaign of ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. Just to repeat the sentence with the addition of "campaign of" ro make it clearer, which is obviously not about just ganking is it? One could say that the focus of your website on individual players and their upset reaction is griefing, but those players have an option to join the AG movement and do something about it in game, rather than get all upset with eve mails and idle threats. EDIT: As for forum warriors lol, Herzog blew up lots of wrecks before CCP changed the wreck EHP and yesterday I was next to a bumped Obelisk with two Guardians and another player in an Augorer and the gank fleet came in and then left as they knew they could not break our logi. I did not see them gank for quite a few hours after that, forum warriors lol... Our campaign of 100% completely allowed in-game activities? Oh okay, big difference. I mean, killing a retriever once is fine, but if you make a CAMPAIGN out of it, then you're a griefer unless you justify it some way with the help of GM Banana. Got it. WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF?!? Also, I never said forum warriors, train reading to level 3 before you post. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1002	Posted - 2016.06.18 17:36:36 - [152] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone You didnt answer my question, where is this james 315 that you all worship Right now, I'd imagine he's gently helping a kitten out of a tree, or other Savior business. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1002	Posted - 2016.06.18 17:37:29 - [153] - Quote eddie valvetino wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. Perhaps if you weren't playing Eve PvP on easy mode, you would have more friends and there for more ships and more dps.. just saying Also, if you are no grid for longer than 3 mins... why can you not fit scrams? Perhaps your base level of "PvP" as yet to come across this most basic of offensive mods So much lack of understanding of the issue displayed here I just can't even begin to... *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7792	Posted - 2016.06.18 19:44:37 - [154] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone I was out all night. Why are you making a parody of yourself? Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1777	Posted - 2016.06.18 20:53:06 - [155] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: I sure hope Liek was talking about bumping in that out of context chatlog you posted, because if not, then he, like yourself, are completely 100% incorrect. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. GM Banana helped James 315 create the mining permit to justify BUMPING. NOT GANKING. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. I say again, you don't have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game. Herzog, what kind of carebear fantasy world do you live in? Why don't you file a petition and ask a GM if this subject if so difficult for you? Are you afraid of what they're going to tell you? [Spoiler Alert] it's going to be: "You do not have to justify the killing of spaceships in this spaceship killing game." No, he agreed that to make sure that your ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. I have no attitude whether it be right or wrong, it just is and I fight it in game which for me is fun. Ganking can never be "defined as simple griefing" because a killmail counts as an in-game reward or benefit. That's what I keep trying to tell you forum-dwellers but you just just can't seem to comprehend it. No, he agreed that to make sure that your campaign of ganking and bumping and tear gathering could not be defined as simple griefing and petitioned by your victims. Just to repeat the sentence with the addition of "campaign of" ro make it clearer, which is obviously not about just ganking is it? One could say that the focus of your website on individual players and their upset reaction is griefing, but those players have an option to join the AG movement and do something about it in game, rather than get all upset with eve mails and idle threats. EDIT: As for forum warriors lol, Herzog blew up lots of wrecks before CCP changed the wreck EHP and yesterday I was next to a bumped Obelisk with two Guardians and another player in an Augorer and the gank fleet came in and then left as they knew they could not break our logi. I did not see them gank for quite a few hours after that, forum warriors lol... Our campaign of 100% completely allowed in-game activities? Oh okay, big difference. I mean, killing a retriever once is fine, but if you make a CAMPAIGN out of it, then you're a griefer unless you justify it some way with the help of GM Banana. Got it. WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF?!? Also, I never said forum warriors, train reading to level 3 before you post. You are trying too hard, first of all you do a whine thread and then you try to come over edgy and smart with stupid comments, CODE is definately going downhill fast..., keep posting mate its golden COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2606	Posted - 2016.06.18 20:54:46 - [156] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Bananas WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF?!? AG has a very extensive Intel network composed of Lucas Kell who makes the stuff up, Dracvlad who adds the word tears to the end of every sentence and Herzog who just repeats it and gets upset about it. Let's just say, our schedules are save. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1009	Posted - 2016.06.18 22:04:32 - [157] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone I was out all night. Why are you making a parody of yourself? Well everyone is still waiting for you to back up that big steaming pile of BS you plopped all over the thread. Have you filed that petition? Why are you afraid to just file a petition and ask a GM? You clearly need help understanding this game but refuse to ask the people who are the authority on these matters. Being Ignorant is excusable, but refusing to educate yourself is known as stupidity. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 507	Posted - 2016.06.18 23:58:45 - [158] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: CODE is definately going downhill fast..., said every miner and whiny carebear since 2012 I think I got a bingo boys Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1779	Posted - 2016.06.19 07:56:07 - [159] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Dracvlad wrote: CODE is definately going downhill fast..., said every miner and whiny carebear since 2012 I think I got a bingo boys He was the one whining, go look at the first post in this thread, it is basically please CCP don't make it harder for me, please please please, pathetic... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1779	Posted - 2016.06.19 07:58:36 - [160] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Bananas WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF?!? AG has a very extensive Intel network composed of Lucas Kell who makes the stuff up, Dracvlad who adds the word tears to the end of every sentence and Herzog who just repeats it and gets upset about it. Let's just say, our schedules are save. Safe not save. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Rana Rama State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2016.06.19 10:00:36 - [161] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death. Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes. Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference. I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping. Thank you. when you need more than 3 minutes to gank a freighter you're in the wrong business anyway, so why are you whining about it ?
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7794	Posted - 2016.06.19 19:45:22 - [162] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone I was out all night. Why are you making a parody of yourself? Well everyone is still waiting for you to back up that big steaming pile of BS you plopped all over the thread. Have you filed that petition? Why are you afraid to just file a petition and ask a GM? You clearly need help understanding this game but refuse to ask the people who are the authority on these matters. Being Ignorant is excusable, but refusing to educate yourself is known as stupidity. Showing so much salt while making demands to support your own strawmen. I could bother with giving you more attention but im using a phone right now as my computer is a bit far away. I just came in to check on your hyper defensive meltdown for my own pleasure before i continue an adventurous and productive weekend. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dom Arkaral Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine 510	Posted - 2016.06.19 20:24:56 - [163] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Now that I've completely schooled Herzog in front of everyone, so much so that he abandoned his fallacious, blatantly false claims in favor of ad-hominim style attacks against me, I claim this as YET ANOTHER victory for the New Order, and take my leave with 1000 likes. Drops microphone I was out all night. Why are you making a parody of yourself? Well everyone is still waiting for you to back up that big steaming pile of BS you plopped all over the thread. Have you filed that petition? Why are you afraid to just file a petition and ask a GM? You clearly need help understanding this game but refuse to ask the people who are the authority on these matters. Being Ignorant is excusable, but refusing to educate yourself is known as stupidity. Showing so much salt while making demands to support your own strawmen. I could bother with giving you more attention but im using a phone right now as my computer is a bit far away. I just came in to check on your hyper defensive meltdown for my own pleasure before i continue an adventurous and productive weekend. the simple fact that you post here is a victory for Galaxy Pig GG G.P., you won again by harvesting the tears of the Quote: plebs that give no damns Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1011	Posted - 2016.06.20 13:07:54 - [164] - Quote You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7795	Posted - 2016.06.20 16:06:11 - [165] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. Also, strawman? Is it not your position that ganking for the sake of ganking would be against the rules? Try saying that out loud, you might hear how ridiculous that sounds if you say it out loud. Part of me is wondering if you're going to try to backpedal your way out of this. My God, you're still here. Just admit CODE is one big whine over crimewatch and loot abandonment and I won't haunt you with truth any further. That's all. Don't forget it was you who came in here whining about three minutes. Tell me, what's do big about those 2 minutes? You have not made a real case for that extra 2 minutes. I know what it is. See sentence 1. Is it that you fear you might gank a freighter and right then another comes along but you got global for 15 minutes and won't be able to (no consequence scram via bumping) hold it in place until the timer is up? As if another one won't come along at all after that? Or you know that freighter pilots will take that opportunity perhaps? Fatter loot might get away because your target selection was poor? Deal with itGäó Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dom Arkaral Addicted To Chaos Archetype. 511	Posted - 2016.06.20 16:33:07 - [166] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: My God, you're still here Herzie, drop the ball... let the adults talk Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1013	Posted - 2016.06.20 18:58:05 - [167] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. Also, strawman? Is it not your position that ganking for the sake of ganking would be against the rules? Try saying that out loud, you might hear how ridiculous that sounds if you say it out loud. Part of me is wondering if you're going to try to backpedal your way out of this. My God, you're still here. Just admit CODE is one big whine over crimewatch and loot abandonment and I won't haunt you with truth any further. That's all. http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/10/how-will-crimewatch-and-bounty-changes.html?m=1. Above is James 315's analysis of the then yet to happen crimewatch changes and how they might affect the operations of the New Order. As you can see, the blog was already up and running well before Crimewatch was even announced, and mind you that James 315 and the New Order predate even the blog. So here's my question: How can the New Order have been created in response to something that hadn't happened yet? Are you saying that James 315 can see the future? Your propaganda skills are weak, bro. Google the words "minerbumping" and "crimewatch" and the top result proves your tinfoil incorrect. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3190	Posted - 2016.06.20 19:22:33 - [168] - Quote why dont you just adapt.....htfu FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1784	Posted - 2016.06.20 19:39:31 - [169] - Quote I find Galaxy Pig's denials about James315's reaction to the then new crimewatch very telling, I will give him the same reply I did to Iamwreckingyou, or something like that. Crimewatch went through an extended period of discussions and debate before it was implemented, members of the CSM knew about the changes well before they were implemented and I am pretty certain there was a discussion at Fanfest. To pretend that this was not known about when CODE was formed is total mis-information by a player trying to hide the fact that CODE was built on a butthurt reaction to game changes. Just as the player concerned posted this thread as a butthurt reaction to the change in bumping mechanics which is no longer a totally consequence free act of warp disruption and means he will have to have friends or another account for suicide alts. As people have said, you Galaxy Pig need to HTFU! COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1013	Posted - 2016.06.20 19:55:10 - [170] - Quote Denial of James 315's reaction? I provided a link to James 315's reaction... Are you actually reading my posts? *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1784	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:13:46 - [171] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Denial of James 315's reaction? I provided a link to James 315's reaction... Are you actually reading my posts? Seeing as you asked I will now explain why I no longer go to your alliance website, the last time I went on that website was 16th June, which was a link left in local alongside the kill mail of a freighter they had killed just before I had arrived, the link was to a to a comment by Lawrence Lawton a member of CODE, it was a couple of posts under CODE's previous leaders rant about a tragic event, and in my opinion this was done deliberately by that player. I decided at that point to no longer look at your website. Perhaps if you clean it up so people like Lawrend Lawton can no longer play such games then players like me will go back to that site. You asked the question on this and I gave you my reasons for refusing to vist that site following a CODE players stupid game. I do not wish to expose myself to such stupidity and contempt and I remind you that it is a shame that people like the player I mentioned bring it down to such a level. Can you tell him that I have utter contempt for him as a person for doing that. If you personally guarantee to me that I will not be subject to viewing such posts then I may reconsider. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1013	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:20:39 - [172] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Denial of James 315's reaction? I provided a link to James 315's reaction... Are you actually reading my posts? Seeing as you asked I will now explain why I no longer go to your alliance website, the last time I went on that website was 16th June, which was a link left in local alongside the kill mail of a freighter they had killed just before I had arrived, the link was to a to a comment by Lawrence Lawton a member of CODE, it was a couple of posts under CODE's previous leaders rant about a tragic event, and in my opinion this was done deliberately by that player. I decided at that point to no longer look at your website. Perhaps if you clean it up so people like Lawrend Lawton can no longer play such games then players like me will go back to that site. You asked the question on this and I gave you my reasons for refusing to vist that site following a CODE players stupid game. I do not wish to expose myself to such stupidity and contempt and I remind you that it is a shame that people like the player I mentioned bring it down to such a level. Can you tell him that I have utter contempt for him as a person for doing that. If you personally guarantee to me that I will not be subject to viewing such posts then I may reconsider. So that's a 'no', then? Pfff lol you take the internet too seriously, brother. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3191	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:21:32 - [173] - Quote think code. need permits for posting on the forums FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1784	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:26:48 - [174] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Denial of James 315's reaction? I provided a link to James 315's reaction... Are you actually reading my posts? Let's dig deeper, shall we? How did crimewatch in any way affect the operations of the New Order? Sure, it gave carebears a few more mechanisms to strike back at us, but we all knew they'd be too cowardly to actually use any of them. All it did was provide us with even more tools to stick it to carebears. e.g. killrights There were plenty of other changes that actually did affect us. These would have been better choices for your tinfoil theories. Learn to propagandize. The new crimewatch enabled the AG players to act as they do now, no one would have dared do anything in the previous mess because it was spaghetti code of the worst order sometimes making you go suspect for no known reason. At least now we have a certain level of control. This has created dynamic content over ganks and any true player would welcome it. Killrights work both ways, no issues with them at all apart from the way they are used to scam people. If you have issues with the new system then feel free to detail them rather than a throw away line with no detail. The reaction to the loss of can flipping by baltec1 has been noted by me. Lucas Kell as a member of Miniluv would not just come out with that about James315's reaction, Lucas Kell has a proven track record of saying it as he sees it, which almost got him kicked out of the Imperium. I trust his words because I have seen him over an extended period tell it as it is and see no reason to doubt it. You on the other hand are twisting Herzog's words to say something he never said and then accuse him of saying it. Propoganda is not what I am interested in. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12426	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:32:58 - [175] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: think code. need permits for posting on the forums Happy to sell them one, a bargain at 100m for a single day Cheap at the price Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3192	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:38:51 - [176] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Lan Wang wrote: think code. need permits for posting on the forums Happy to sell them one, a bargain at 100m for a single day Cheap at the price i was thinking per post, monitor it for tears before allowing them to post FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1013	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:43:46 - [177] - Quote And highsec players actually getting out and fighting each other is contrary to the Code? Oh, it's one of the stated goals of our organization? Shrug, the Code always wins! Aways! We did welcome crimewatch, which is explained in that link I posted which you refuse to click on. You're right, the crimewatch changes cut both ways, giving both sides more tools to get at the other, though only one side would actually have the cajones to use them... Herzog was trying to claim that the shooting of spaceships requires some sort of justification and that is just plain wrong. Is this really under dispute? *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12429	Posted - 2016.06.20 21:12:23 - [178] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Bumblefck wrote: Lan Wang wrote: think code. need permits for posting on the forums Happy to sell them one, a bargain at 100m for a single day Cheap at the price i was thinking per post, monitor it for tears before allowing them to post That's a much better idea Tea. Earl Grey. Hot Make it so! Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7797	Posted - 2016.06.20 21:43:03 - [179] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. Also, strawman? Is it not your position that ganking for the sake of ganking would be against the rules? Try saying that out loud, you might hear how ridiculous that sounds if you say it out loud. Part of me is wondering if you're going to try to backpedal your way out of this. My God, you're still here. Just admit CODE is one big whine over crimewatch and loot abandonment and I won't haunt you with truth any further. That's all. http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/10/how-will-crimewatch-and-bounty-changes.html?m=1. Above is James 315's analysis of the then yet to happen crimewatch changes and how they might affect the operations of the New Order. As you can see, the blog was already up and running well before Crimewatch was even announced, and mind you that James 315 and the New Order predate even the blog. So here's my question: How can the New Order have been created in response to something that hadn't happened yet? Are you saying that James 315 can see the future? Your propaganda skills are weak, bro. Google the words "minerbumping" and "crimewatch" and the top result proves your tinfoil incorrect. Propaganda? Truth is not propaganda. It's a force of nature. Speaking of propaganda, what website.... ah one controlled by the same people who are known to lie and gaslight the rest of the playerbase. BTW, anybody can look at a future change and be butthurt about it, which is what this "prediction of the future" really it. You know how I know that happens? Look at the first post in this thread. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 336	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:13:19 - [180] - Quote Aye. The code always whines.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 1018	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:33:49 - [181] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. Also, strawman? Is it not your position that ganking for the sake of ganking would be against the rules? Try saying that out loud, you might hear how ridiculous that sounds if you say it out loud. Part of me is wondering if you're going to try to backpedal your way out of this. My God, you're still here. Just admit CODE is one big whine over crimewatch and loot abandonment and I won't haunt you with truth any further. That's all. http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/10/how-will-crimewatch-and-bounty-changes.html?m=1. Above is James 315's analysis of the then yet to happen crimewatch changes and how they might affect the operations of the New Order. As you can see, the blog was already up and running well before Crimewatch was even announced, and mind you that James 315 and the New Order predate even the blog. So here's my question: How can the New Order have been created in response to something that hadn't happened yet? Are you saying that James 315 can see the future? Your propaganda skills are weak, bro. Google the words "minerbumping" and "crimewatch" and the top result proves your tinfoil incorrect. Propaganda? Truth is not propaganda. It's a force of nature. Speaking of propaganda, what website.... ah one controlled by the same people who are known to lie and gaslight the rest of the playerbase. You didn't seem to have an issue with quoting a New Order Agent when you thought it served your purposes earlier in this thread. You seemed to think Liek Darz was quite an authoritative source of information. Since it's clear you're not actually going to discuss anything with me, I'm gonna leave you with a James 315 quote: "It's impressive: I've written hundreds of pages describing in fine detail my motives for founding the New Order. Yet the anti-Code rebels still engage in (inaccurate) speculation--as if our organization is a total mystery." I read that and thought of you, Herzog. Have a great day, buddy. *Highsec is owned by players now.* Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7800	Posted - 2016.06.21 07:48:40 - [182] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: You're right, I do get a little defensive when people blatantly and publically lie about the rules of the game. I mean, think of the poor noobies who might believe your tripe. Also, strawman? Is it not your position that ganking for the sake of ganking would be against the rules? Try saying that out loud, you might hear how ridiculous that sounds if you say it out loud. Part of me is wondering if you're going to try to backpedal your way out of this. My God, you're still here. Just admit CODE is one big whine over crimewatch and loot abandonment and I won't haunt you with truth any further. That's all. http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/10/how-will-crimewatch-and-bounty-changes.html?m=1. Above is James 315's analysis of the then yet to happen crimewatch changes and how they might affect the operations of the New Order. As you can see, the blog was already up and running well before Crimewatch was even announced, and mind you that James 315 and the New Order predate even the blog. So here's my question: How can the New Order have been created in response to something that hadn't happened yet? Are you saying that James 315 can see the future? Your propaganda skills are weak, bro. Google the words "minerbumping" and "crimewatch" and the top result proves your tinfoil incorrect. Propaganda? Truth is not propaganda. It's a force of nature. Speaking of propaganda, what website.... ah one controlled by the same people who are known to lie and gaslight the rest of the playerbase. You didn't seem to have an issue with quoting a New Order Agent when you thought it served your purposes earlier in this thread. You seemed to think Liek Darz was quite an authoritative source of information. Since it's clear you're not actually going to discuss anything with me, I'm gonna leave you with a James 315 quote: "It's impressive: I've written hundreds of pages describing in fine detail my motives for founding the New Order. Yet the anti-Code rebels still engage in (inaccurate) speculation--as if our organization is a total mystery." I read that and thought of you, Herzog. Have a great day, buddy. James claimed something. I guess that must be true too. Keep at it my little piggy. I really haven't read your posts and I enjoy trolling you with the truth. And your entire thread was in fact, like CODE. one huge whine. It even has the word "plea" in the title. A perfect illustration. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
ISD Buldath ISD STAR 394	Posted - 2016.06.22 04:08:15 - [183] - Quote Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread. Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. I have edited the offending posts, and those quoting them. *~ISD Buldath* Commander Support, Training and Resources Division Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.

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