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Charrette
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:05:00 -
[31]
The only out-and-out combat ships really worth flying in the Caldari arsenal are the Rokh and the Nighthawk.
The Rokh you only need for fleet engagements.
The Nighthawk is your everything else ship. But even then, it can be outdamaged by the Myrm for goodness' sake.
Although i will say this, a passive tanked NH will outtank anything thrown at it 1v1 save a highly skilled amarr BS pilot. I agree with the OP. PvP is just.. difficult with Caldari.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:18:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Kehmor
snip
1) Yup i read your original post. It was pretty bad, ignorant too.
2) Not every race is "valid" at long range. Caldari are the best. If you get a tackle on a cruiser, there is no non-caldari cruiser in the game that is going to match the range of a moa or a ferox. What this means is that the ferox and the moa do damage and the others dont.
If you use your brains when fighting with caldari, and dont simply join the fight at the same range as your tacklers you can do a lot of good. Eagles use antimatter out to 50km![At which range they outdamage a 250 II Deimos ;)]
Range has many many applications in Eve, if you use them you will do better.
3) No, missiles do not have the lowest DPS of any weapon in the game. If you compare them to say, autocannons, pulse lasers, and blasters, and then ignore assault launchers, heavy assault launchers, and torpedos then yes, they do have the worst DPS in the game. However that is like complaining that beam lasers do less DPS than autocannons. There is a difference in range. Missiles have very strong DPS into the mid range. The penalty they get for this strong DPS into the mid range where others start suffering is travel time. This makes them impractical in larger gangs, but just fine in small to medium gangs.
Your t2 ammo does not suck any worse than anyone elses t2 ammo, it is simply not completly broken.
The fact that kinetic remains the best choice for damage does not have anything to do with whether or not its easy to vary damage. No race gives up LESS to change damage types than Caldari does. Minmatar is extreemly limited in its choices[always kin, only two real choices after tat are kin and therm]. Gallente give up between 14 and 33% to vary their damage types[and due to drone bay limitations this is not very easy]. Amarr simply cant vary their damage types[aside from drones, or fitting autocannons]. And Caldari gives up 25% damage.
As for nanoships[which are getting nerfed, partly because trackingless weapons make them uber], any ship that can outrun missiles, can outrun the turrets on a similarly sized ship.
4) Simply because you are too dense or stubborn to fit racial ECM and fly in a gang instead of fitting multispectral jammers and "wftpwning" over everyone does not mean your EW is "the weakest". Its not even close to turret dusruptors, let alone target painting[which is suprisingly good at raising torp DPS up to pretty insane levels]
5) Use your mid slots. What you dont fit your mid slots? OR you only fit for tank? that aint my fault. Mid slots are the king of PvP for a reason, they are the wild card. Stick TD's, Damps, tank, ECM, whatever you want in there. It isnt the fault of the Caldari design that you refuse to fit your ships for versitility. But please, tell Burn Eden that the raven isnt versitile. I am sure they will take kindly to the suggestion
6) No, the dominix does not come close to Raven DPS with "only drones and rigs" it caps out at 475 dps with tech 2 heavy drones and max skills. The Geddon does do better @ 40km[its 90% em though and cant change any of that to thermal] but the tempest, at 30-70km certianly does not. And nor does a rail megathron. The Abaddon or Geddon with Tachyons will do more damage per second than a cruise raven at those ranges. With nearly 0 tracking and two RCUs just to fit the guns.
7) No minmatar does not out tank you, in pure absolute solo DPS tankable yes, when the tank is being overpowered? No, when the caldari ship is using a passive tank? Bwa ha ha ha ha, minnies arent even close. And no the Hyperion doesnt either. Well, not if it fits any damage mods. Its all about trade offs.
8) A moa is going to hit your crow when its 100+km away from it. But yea, a web specialized recon ship will do better at killing frigates than a tech 1 rail sniper. Who'd a thunk. I would also like to take this time to note that the Vexor sucks balls, because the curse just craps all over it.
cont...
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:24:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 23/02/2007 14:25:29
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 11:54:20
[snip]
I cannot think of any race that does all things that well. Except maybe Gallente[but honestly, we all know they are broken]. Minmatar have the lowest long range DPS and optimal, they solo very well, but dont rat like gallente, let alone caldari, they have the worst EW bar none.
Care to elaborate, because aside from the Nosferatu/Drone boat combination (i.e. cookie cutter Dominix setups) I really don't see how Gallente are 'broken' (aside from the concept of blasters/short range which simply doesn't work in anything beyond small scale engagements) ...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:25:00 -
[34]
Boost Caldari!
Be seriously. Grass. Fence. Green.
Basically everyone whines. Amarr whine that they suck, Caldari whine that they apparently can't PvP, Matar whine that they are useless and Gallente whine that their entire race's concept is pointless.
Every race has good and bad ships. Just because Caldari don't really have a place in the nanofad of Eve 2007 doesn't mean their ships are useless. Tbh, I'm disgusted by the idea that Caldari should have a solo ship as good as a Domi or Phoon. For crying out loud what else do you guys need? Best fleet ship, best Interceptor, Best EW boat(s), best PvE ships classeS, best tanks AND the easiest to train.
And all that at the cost of your inability to solo. Well, what you call inability because frankly, I don't see why a Raven with a scrambler and a 5-slot (or, heck, even a 4 slot one) instantly "sucks" at soloing. Because, seriously, how many slots do you people think Matar and Gallenteans tank with? Five?
If I want to be top of the line at PvE I am *forced* to train Caldari. If you want to be top of the line PvP, guess what? Train something else. Voila.
But no, wait, I have an idea: We just take the most flown ships in each class and change their required skill to Caldari [proper size ship skill] and change that with each patch to match FotM.
Originally by: "Cy4n1d3"
You can't PVP with 4 mids.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:27:00 -
[35]
Continued...
9) with WTZ snipers still play plenty of a role in combat. They have the ability to shoot things before others can shoot and they dont need time in order to change targets nearly regardless of range.
10) I fly amarr, I dont 1v1, but if you want to come out to scalding pass, or teneferis, then we can settle it right.
Originally by: Kehmor
haray! You can kill cruisers with this... No half decently tanked battleship or even battlecruiser will be brought down by a solo raven without a few damage mods
Max battlecruiser tank 2x MAR + Tanking bonus + EANM/DC tank against EM is going to be about 472 DPS absolute and will run until cap charges end.
So if you choose to shoot EM damage, then yea, you wont take out a battlecruiser. Now, if you choose to shoot kinetic damage you will be looking at a 291 dps tank.
Now, since we have your numbers of "500 DPS max" on a raven[which is bull by the way, you get significantly more] and since we know how much 3 BCU adds to dps, we can turn that 500 dps and look at it against that BC super tank[5 slot injected] and find that a 0 BCU badly skilled raven will beat the tank by about 15 DPS. So the tank breaks when the cap chargers break.
But then again, caldari arent the best soloing ships in the fleet.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Srbin
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
... Ok.. you are using cruise missiles. Than show me wich other BS can achieve 500 DPS withits long range guns (artilharies, rails) and can still fit a tank as powerfull as the raven...
Make a tempest hit at same range as the raven.. then compara how much tank you can put at the tempest and at the raven...
Whenever you fire that missle you at 150km you are taking a gamble that the target will warp out or simply die before most missles reach it. At 150+ km tank almost doesn't matter at all.
It's not just about missles, or anything else. Here are some of the ships I fly and some of their advantages and drawbacks:
Crow: Simply awesome inty. Good at repelling other inties and can keep 20km scram while MWD with decent skills and setup.
Raptor: Does the "Cheap tackler" job, but stilleto does it a lot better.
Hawk: Simply a ***** to fit, and totally useless ship to me. You can never get the maximum out of that ship. A useless extra highslot.
Harpy: Unique with its sniping ability but must be backed up with some firepower. with speed changes 80km mean nothing. Whe cornered = dead. Useless highslot. Lacking lowslot.
Buzzard: With 15PG (vs. 20 of helios) and a useless highslot, I would take any other covert over it.
Caracal: Highly limited application. Useful in ranged attacks but kinetic missle damage, low speed and flimsiness are serious drawbacks.
Moa: Ship for laughs. With only 4 turret slots that can take advantage of the extra range, the wasted 2 higslots are a serious issue. I would rather give it 5 turret (and total highs) and one extra mid, and then it can have some usefulness.
Ferox: Completely missing its role with only 5 turrets, and completely overshadowed by Drake (whcih I don't fly)
Raven: Requires lots of skill to make it just a decent PvP ship. Usually melts when engaged at very close range, and lacks mobility and midsots for webbing to escape it.
Rook: Great jammer, but IMO just not worth it due to the extreme lack of tanking ability.
The REAL problem with almost all these ships are coming from the fact that too many conditions need to be satisfied for these ships to actually do anything useful. Starting from velocity of the target which should not exceed a certain speeed where missle damage reduces drastically, to range "Requirements" implies on these ships and their inability to get in that range quickly, or escape pursuing ships. Versatility is something that is needed when you are looking for a fight, and Caldari lack it the most.
Ships that I haven't flown yet, but believe are good ships: Rokh, Eagle, Drake.
50 km. ok That is still far more than any tempest setup I know that can dish 500 DPS at that range with any reasonable defense!!
If I could dish 500 dps at 50km with any damage type and still have an impressive tank. I would be jumping of joy.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 11:54:20
[snip]
I cannot think of any race that does all things that well. Except maybe Gallente[but honestly, we all know they are broken]. Minmatar have the lowest long range DPS and optimal, they solo very well, but dont rat like gallente, let alone caldari, they have the worst EW bar none.
Care to elaborate, because aside from the Nosferatu/Drone boat combination (i.e. cookie cutter Dominix setups) I really don't see how Gallente are 'broken'...
Mainly the drones/nos combination. And drones/guns when in combination with a prodigious amount of medium slots and it gets pretty bad.
Add in the brutixs ridiculous configuartion [7 guns and a damage bonus? it outdamages all teir 1 battlecruisers in the medium range. Hell, the thing outdamages the prophecy and cyclone when its using rails and they are using pulses, at all ranges, it outdamages the ferox at all ranges inside 60km, and it shouldnt].
Toss in a side of the taranis and it gets pretty bad.
Their are downsides and "gallente is broken" is an exaggeration, but gallente are a very strong line of ships that do what they do very well[probably too well] while being versitile enough to compete strongly [or outright win] in areas that are not supposed to be their forte.
I havent looked at their frigates much, but i think the shorter range ones are a bit weaker compared to minmatar/amarr/caldari frigates.
All in all its the "being extraordinarily good at their forte while not suffering in other areas as other races do that makes them "overpowered"
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:35:00 -
[38]
Quote:
No, missiles do not have the lowest DPS of any weapon in the game.
torpedos do less damage than any short range gun. Our damage potential is by far the lowest. T2 raven with maxed skills hits about 600dps before drones. Maybe 630 with implants. Any other race can easily top this.
Quote:
Yup i read your original post. It was pretty bad, ignorant too.
You clearly didn't as it was a question, and it is a bit of a paradox calling a question ignorant.
Quote:
4) Simply because you are too dense or stubborn to fit racial ECM and fly in a gang instead of fitting multispectral jammers and "wftpwning" over everyone does not mean your EW is "the weakest". Its not even close to turret dusruptors, let alone target painting[which is suprisingly good at raising torp DPS up to pretty insane levels]
I believe I adressed this in full earlier. Caldari do add well with ecm in very pre-emptive strikes. Obtaining the ranges you are refering to and re-fitting your ship is what I would call a very pre-emptive strike. Read before you post please.
Quote:
No, when the caldari ship is using a passive tank? Bwa ha ha ha ha, minnies arent even close. And no the Hyperion doesnt either. Well, not if it fits any damage mods. Its all about trade offs.
pretty irrelevant as a passive tank in pvp is pretty pointless considering active ones are simply better. Who needs long time tank sustainability in pvp?
Quote:
5) Use your mid slots. What you dont fit your mid slots? OR you only fit for tank? that aint my fault. Mid slots are the king of PvP for a reason, they are the wild card. Stick TD's, Damps, tank, ECM, whatever you want in there. It isnt the fault of the Caldari design that you refuse to fit your ships for versitility. But please, tell Burn Eden that the raven isnt versitile. I am sure they will take kindly to the suggestion
Burn Eden's tactics wrequire a very specific fleet, and they don't use the EW that you claim to be so superior. This isn't versatility, it is merely using one of two tactics the raven has available to it.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
50 km. ok That is still far more than any tempest setup I know that can dish 500 DPS at that range with any reasonable defense!!
If I could dish 500 dps at 50km with any damage type and still have an impressive tank. I would be jumping of joy.
Actualy the Maelstrom with 3 projectile falloff rigs and 4 explosive sentry drones can do about 500 dps @ 50km. Granted that is undershooting the DPS on the raven "just a tad" ;)
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Goumindong
Continued...
Now, since we have your numbers of "500 DPS max" on a raven[which is bull by the way, you get significantly more] and since we know how much 3 BCU adds to dps, we can turn that 500 dps and look at it against that BC super tank[5 slot injected] and find that a 0 BCU badly skilled raven will beat the tank by about 15 DPS. So the tank breaks when the cap chargers break.
But then again, caldari arent the best soloing ships in the fleet.
these weren't my numbers please read before posting. As *I* said a tech II raven gets roughly 600 dps before drones with maxed skills. With Thermal drones that is about 800 dps. however without damage mods as people are suggesting i use my raven, then I will not have anywhere near this figure. Any battleship can out tank the raven without damage mods, or in some cases even with. Yes cap will run out, but not as quickly as an armor tanked raven's structure.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:45:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
50 km. ok That is still far more than any tempest setup I know that can dish 500 DPS at that range with any reasonable defense!!
If I could dish 500 dps at 50km with any damage type and still have an impressive tank. I would be jumping of joy.
Actualy the Maelstrom with 3 projectile falloff rigs and 4 explosive sentry drones can do about 500 dps @ 50km. Granted that is undershooting the DPS on the raven "just a tad" ;)
and as it moves closer will start overshooting the raven by quite a lot. and out tanking.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
50 km. ok That is still far more than any tempest setup I know that can dish 500 DPS at that range with any reasonable defense!!
If I could dish 500 dps at 50km with any damage type and still have an impressive tank. I would be jumping of joy.
Actualy the Maelstrom with 3 projectile falloff rigs and 4 explosive sentry drones can do about 500 dps @ 50km. Granted that is undershooting the DPS on the raven "just a tad" ;)
and as it moves closer will start overshooting the raven by quite a lot. and out tanking.
Yes and no. Also that is DPS after drones.
also Quote:
Ok well I fly caldari and seem to disagree with the popular view that they "zomg pwn, nerf plz". So I would like people to give me a caldari ship, and the pvp role that they believe it can accomplish better than any other ship. I want broad pvp roles such as "close range damage". I am excluding from this the crow and jamming ships as these excell at their not all that useful role.
Edit: not I am not claiming I am right here, I just think i must be missing something.
is not a question.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Continued...
Now, since we have your numbers of "500 DPS max" on a raven[which is bull by the way, you get significantly more] and since we know how much 3 BCU adds to dps, we can turn that 500 dps and look at it against that BC super tank[5 slot injected] and find that a 0 BCU badly skilled raven will beat the tank by about 15 DPS. So the tank breaks when the cap chargers break.
But then again, caldari arent the best soloing ships in the fleet.
these weren't my numbers please read before posting. As *I* said a tech II raven gets roughly 600 dps before drones with maxed skills. With Thermal drones that is about 800 dps. however without damage mods as people are suggesting i use my raven, then I will not have anywhere near this figure. Any battleship can out tank the raven without damage mods, or in some cases even with. Yes cap will run out, but not as quickly as an armor tanked raven's structure.
No no no no no. 600 DPS right? 600 DPS without drones and with 3 BUCs? Right?
BECAUSE I FIGURED THAT DPS WAS 500 with 3 BCUs and THEN i calced the battlecruiser tank.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Goumindong
is not a question.
I was asking for people's opinion while giving them more detail as to why through statements. The sentences within the post were not questions, the post overall was.
as for the mael, my wing mate gets some pretty impressive figures out of it with autos.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kehmor
I believe I adressed this in full earlier. Caldari do add well with ecm in very pre-emptive strikes. Obtaining the ranges you are refering to and re-fitting your ship is what I would call a very pre-emptive strike. Read before you post please.
"warp to x"
were x is 50 o 70km.
Blackbird
highs: Who cares
mids: Sensor Booster x 2 1 racial of each type x 1
lows: 1600 plate/ecm boost or 2x ecm boost
Not exactly "very pre-emptive" it just requires that you dont get jumped, just like every long range setup rquires that you not get jumped.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
I believe I adressed this in full earlier. Caldari do add well with ecm in very pre-emptive strikes. Obtaining the ranges you are refering to and re-fitting your ship is what I would call a very pre-emptive strike. Read before you post please.
"warp to x"
were x is 50 o 70km.
Blackbird
highs: Who cares
mids: Sensor Booster x 2 1 racial of each type x 1
lows: 1600 plate/ecm boost or 2x ecm boost
Not exactly "very pre-emptive" it just requires that you dont get jumped, just like every long range setup rquires that you not get jumped.
it also requires your enemies gang not having a single ship capable of hitting at that range.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
is not a question.
I was asking for people's opinion while giving them more detail as to why through statements. The sentences within the post were not questions, the post overall was.
as for the mael, my wing mate gets some pretty impressive figures out of it with autos.
yes, he gets ~500 DPS @ max skills with 3 gyrostab IIs and 3 falloff rigs with drones. that is pretty impressive.
The raven gets how much with drones at that range? How much 20 more KM out?
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
is not a question.
I was asking for people's opinion while giving them more detail as to why through statements. The sentences within the post were not questions, the post overall was.
as for the mael, my wing mate gets some pretty impressive figures out of it with autos.
yes, he gets ~500 DPS @ max skills with 3 gyrostab IIs and 3 falloff rigs with drones. that is pretty impressive.
The raven gets how much with drones at that range? How much 20 more KM out?
and how much does the raven get at 20k? or 10?
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kehmor
it also requires your enemies gang not having a single ship capable of hitting at that range.
1600mm plate. If someone targets you, as indicated by the little yellow or red flashing icon on your overview. jam them.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
is not a question.
I was asking for people's opinion while giving them more detail as to why through statements. The sentences within the post were not questions, the post overall was.
as for the mael, my wing mate gets some pretty impressive figures out of it with autos.
yes, he gets ~500 DPS @ max skills with 3 gyrostab IIs and 3 falloff rigs with drones. that is pretty impressive.
The raven gets how much with drones at that range? How much 20 more KM out?
and how much does the raven get at 20k? or 10?
Less.
And what do we call that?
Balance
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 14:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
is not a question.
I was asking for people's opinion while giving them more detail as to why through statements. The sentences within the post were not questions, the post overall was.
as for the mael, my wing mate gets some pretty impressive figures out of it with autos.
yes, he gets ~500 DPS @ max skills with 3 gyrostab IIs and 3 falloff rigs with drones. that is pretty impressive.
The raven gets how much with drones at that range? How much 20 more KM out?
and how much does the raven get at 20k? or 10?
Less.
And what do we call that?
Balance
so basically your arguement is that caldari is good because what are meant to be our short range weapons have long range but crap damage. Genius. Make the torps 30km range max, or hell, even 20, and up their damage. Then it would be balanced.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:04:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 15:04:29
Originally by: Kehmor
so basically your arguement is that caldari is good because what are meant to be our short range weapons have long range but crap damage. Genius. Make the torps 30km range max, or hell, even 20, and up their damage. Then it would be balanced.
They dont have "long range and crap damage" they have long range and good damage.
A Geddon maxes out at about 730 gun DPS @ 45km with megapulses and scorch. Its 91% Em damage and cannot change. A raven hits how much DPS to how far?
Caldari are not fast nimble ships that are made for infighting and simple because you refuse to see where they are good you because you want to use them where they are bad you are having an issue with them.
Learn to use them.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 15:01:20
Originally by: Kehmor
so basically your arguement is that caldari is good because what are meant to be our short range weapons have long range but crap damage. Genius. Make the torps 30km range max, or hell, even 20, and up their damage. Then it would be balanced.
They dont have "long range and crap damage" they have long range and good damage.
A Geddon max
keyboard isses, give me a moment to finish
and delayed damage, the fact remains, other short range boats out damage them, and on my short range weapons, i don't look for long range. I look for damage potential.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.23 15:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
it also requires your enemies gang not having a single ship capable of hitting at that range.
1600mm plate. If someone targets you, as indicated by the little yellow or red flashing icon on your overview. jam them.
you have one of each racial jamming, so less than a 50% chance of succeeding. So every 20 seconds there is over a 50% chance you will die. Thats if they only have one ship with that range ability.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:10:00 -
[55]
So we have found the problem then? You are trying to shoehorn a very good race into the specific role of another race in an area that wholly plays against its strengths.
Yea, if i try and play blasterboat with a geddon its going to suck too. The answer is not "geddons suck" the answer is "dont play megathron with a geddon you bleeding idiot"
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:12:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
it also requires your enemies gang not having a single ship capable of hitting at that range.
1600mm plate. If someone targets you, as indicated by the little yellow or red flashing icon on your overview. jam them.
you have one of each racial jamming, so less than a 50% chance of succeeding. So every 20 seconds there is over a 50% chance you will die. Thats if they only have one ship with that range ability.
You do a lot better than 50% chance to jam with racials. Especialy if you start using them on the same target[just as good as using MS but without the cap dran and more range due to probability].
Also ignores the 5000 HP armor buffer or the fact that you do indeed have gangmates ;)
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Goumindong
So we have found the problem then? You are trying to shoehorn a very good race into the specific role of another race in an area that wholly plays against its strengths.
Yea, if i try and play blasterboat with a geddon its going to suck too. The answer is not "geddons suck" the answer is "dont play megathron with a geddon you bleeding idiot"
wrong. The problem is caldari don't follow the pattern of the other ships. That is:
Blasters: very short range, very high damage
Autocannons: slightly more range, slightly less damage
Pulses: Slightly more range, slightly less damage (err, sorta)
Torps: Much higher range, much less damage.
Caldari can be the range race, fine. The problem is all other races are capable of achieving range, caldari arn't capable of achieving high damage.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:17:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kehmor
it also requires your enemies gang not having a single ship capable of hitting at that range.
1600mm plate. If someone targets you, as indicated by the little yellow or red flashing icon on your overview. jam them.
you have one of each racial jamming, so less than a 50% chance of succeeding. So every 20 seconds there is over a 50% chance you will die. Thats if they only have one ship with that range ability.
You do a lot better than 50% chance to jam with racials. Especialy if you start using them on the same target[just as good as using MS but without the cap dran and more range due to probability].
Also ignores the 5000 HP armor buffer or the fact that you do indeed have gangmates ;)
have you ever been the only jamming ship in your gang and not been called primary? 5000 armor? pfft, that buys you 10 seconds. As for jamming chance, I think your maths is wrong, or you are talking about jamming cruisers
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.23 15:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Goumindong
So we have found the problem then? You are trying to shoehorn a very good race into the specific role of another race in an area that wholly plays against its strengths.
Yea, if i try and play blasterboat with a geddon its going to suck too. The answer is not "geddons suck" the answer is "dont play megathron with a geddon you bleeding idiot"
wrong. The problem is caldari don't follow the pattern of the other ships. That is:
Blasters: very short range, very high damage
Autocannons: slightly more range, slightly less damage
Pulses: Slightly more range, slightly less damage (err, sorta)
Torps: Much higher range, much less damage.
Caldari can be the range race, fine. The problem is all other races are capable of achieving range, caldari arn't capable of achieving high damage.
This is false they gain much higher range and slightly less damage.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 15:22:00 -
[60]
ok i just realised the last 20 or so posts have been us two. I'll argue this with you in game sometime 
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