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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:23:00 - [61] Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 15:19:35 Originally by: Kehmor snip for tree I dont believe my math is wrong. But i do think you have an inflated sense of just how strong EW is, especialy other forms of EW are, on the battlefield. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:25:00 - [62] Originally by: Kehmor i'm sorry? you are saying torps have "slightly less damage" than pulse lasers? by slightly you mean in the region of 30-40% 730/600 = 1.21 ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Centurin Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:25:00 - [63] Anyone who thinks Caldari needs a boost needs their head examined. Go fly Amarr, then come back and whine. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:26:00 - [64] Edited by: Kehmor on 23/02/2007 15:23:13 Originally by: Centurin Anyone who thinks Caldari needs a boost needs their head examined. Go fly Amarr, then come back and whine. this is the attitude of most people who have never flown caldari... not that i don't think amarr is broken aswell
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Kehmor Edited by: Kehmor on 22/02/2007 17:36:59 Ok well I fly caldari and seem to disagree with the popular view that they "zomg pwn, nerf plz". So I would like people to give me a caldari ship, and the pvp role that they believe it can accomplish better than any other ship. I want broad pvp roles such as "close range damage". I am excluding from this the crow and jamming ships as these excell at their not all that useful role. Edit: not I am not claiming I am right here, I just think i must be missing something. Go fly minmatar, then you'll hug your nice shiney raven. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine uhhh, you sure? -Eris ofc i am pets voodoo eris doll
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:05:00 - [66] Originally by: Kehmor this is the attitude of most people who have never flown caldari... not that i don't think amarr is broken aswell I fly all races up to BS, and Caldari have it VERY easy. Yes, do a little less DPS than the other races, but they gain much more than they lose. Anyways, IBTL Originally by: Glenntwo You should be an anti pirate because you enjoy giving a player who is looking for an unfair fight an extremely unfair fight
Iudex Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:39:00 - [67] Edited by: Iudex on 23/02/2007 16:39:27 Originally by: Deathhawk my cruise missiles t1 go 191km my cruise missiles t2 go 91km the dp with both is about 600+ and i dont have the best missile skills... Really, why do people post such lies here ? Do they have wrong calculators, outdated numbers or post wrong information intentionally ? I just docked off and tested it again to be sure not to post something wrong here: Skills relevant to dps: Battelship: 5 Cruise Missiles: 5 Missile Launcher Operation: 5 Rapid Launch: 5 Warhead Upgrades: 4 Cruise Missiel Specialization: 4 Warhead Upgrades give 2% more damage, CM Spec. (which is a x8 skill btw) give 2% better rof. The numbers below are with a 5 % rof implant, which compensates the last 2 skills left to the absolute maxout. To get the absolute maximum i fitted 5 BCU tech 2 and used CM Launcher II: Rate of fire: 6.47s Tech 2 high damage cruises: Damage on structure: 611. 7 Raven DPS: (611.7 x 6 launcher) / 6.47 = 567.06 Tech 1 cruises: Damage on structure: 531.9 Raven DPS: (531.9 x 6) / 6.47 = 493.06 Again, this is with 5 BCU, so not even combat-realistic but just to show whats the absolute max dps. If someone says he has a dps of 600+ with cruise missiles he is simply lying. And range: Relevant skills: BS 5, Missile Bombardment 4, Missile Projection 4. Tech 1 cruises: 7875 m/s x 28 sec = 220.500 m Tech 2 cruises: 3675 m/s x 14 sec = 51.450 m Range can be increased with both skills to 5, hw implants and rigs, but you wont get to 91km with furys, sorry. /edit: this dps does not apply to faction/officer fitting though, i know you can get a dps of 700+ with a 5 billion cnr, but we discuss pvp here, so only the numbers with tech 2 stuff. L...i...b...e...r...a...t...e.........C...a...l...d...a...r...i........P...r...i...m...e.!
Felix Dzerzhinsky Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:48:00 - [68] Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 23/02/2007 18:45:10 Goumingdong - are you an alt? Because everytime you pick a forum fight, you seem to win hands down.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:32:00 - [69] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 23/02/2007 18:45:10 Goumingdong - are you an alt? Because everytime you pick a forum fight, you seem to win hands down. Nope. I am a Nice Guy, I fly for WANG. Currenlty we have two noob weaning facilities one in low sec empire space and one out in the harsh realities of 0.0 and dominated by the ever present cries of "FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFO". Anything beyond that probably isnt wise to discuss. But you might see me out in battle slowly grinding away to interdiction manuvers[damn 7 base charisma!] and getting side tracked into tech 2 med lasers or attempting to boost my pet entirely to expensive retribution to even more levels of now not quite so untanked stupidity[the other day, i took a quarter of a day of training out of my schedule to fit a laser CPU reduction rig, enabling me to stick a TS thermal resistance plate in the last low slot instead of a co-proc. 34.5% thermal resistance in exchange for trippling the price of the ship] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Iudex Edited by: Iudex on 23/02/2007 16:39:27 Originally by: Deathhawk my cruise missiles t1 go 191km my cruise missiles t2 go 91km the dp with both is about 600+ and i dont have the best missile skills... Really, why do people post such lies here ? Do they have wrong calculators, outdated numbers or post wrong information intentionally ? I just docked off and tested it again to be sure not to post something wrong here: Skills relevant to dps: Battelship: 5 Cruise Missiles: 5 Missile Launcher Operation: 5 Rapid Launch: 5 Warhead Upgrades: 4 Cruise Missiel Specialization: 4 Warhead Upgrades give 2% more damage, CM Spec. (which is a x8 skill btw) give 2% better rof. The numbers below are with a 5 % rof implant, which compensates the last 2 skills left to the absolute maxout. To get the absolute maximum i fitted 5 BCU tech 2 and used CM Launcher II: Rate of fire: 6.47s Tech 2 high damage cruises: Damage on structure: 611. 7 Raven DPS: (611.7 x 6 launcher) / 6.47 = 567.06 Tech 1 cruises: Damage on structure: 531.9 Raven DPS: (531.9 x 6) / 6.47 = 493.06 Again, this is with 5 BCU, so not even combat-realistic but just to show whats the absolute max dps. If someone says he has a dps of 600+ with cruise missiles he is simply lying. And range: Relevant skills: BS 5, Missile Bombardment 4, Missile Projection 4. Tech 1 cruises: 7875 m/s x 28 sec = 220.500 m Tech 2 cruises: 3675 m/s x 14 sec = 51.450 m Range can be increased with both skills to 5, hw implants and rigs, but you wont get to 91km with furys, sorry. /edit: this dps does not apply to faction/officer fitting though, i know you can get a dps of 700+ with a 5 billion cnr, but we discuss pvp here, so only the numbers with tech 2 stuff. I think he is referring to pre-Revelations, which is before all t2 missiles where nerfed.

kill0rbunny Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:21:00 - [71] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 23/02/2007 22:19:40 Edited by: kill0rbunny on 23/02/2007 22:18:13 Caldari are great. Most kills in our kb come from gatecamping with passive tanked drakes. I loled when the comment came that caldari have the worst ewar. Do you realize there's actually ravens with sensor dampeners on them? I didn't realize sds are for gallente only, i hope i won't get banned for using non-caldari ewar modules on caldari ships. Also try usind tracking disruptors, since the tech II turret ammo nerfs they are even more ill. Just try using that amount of ewar modules on any non Caldari Tech I Ship, you are perfectly free to choose. Now is that versatility or what? - I got a portrait now, wheeeee! \o/
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:40:00 - [72] The Only times I have had luck soloing with my Drake or Raven, I had a full T2 setup and was fighting a smaller ship. In a Gang Caldari ships are great, as our gangs also have roles setup: he is bait (tank), he is Offensive (gank, Nos), he is used to kill drones (sensor boosters, Standard missiles), he is used to tackle (speed and fast lock). A Galente can fill most of the roles I mentioned with 1 ship (2 tops). Just so I am not talking out my ass: Dominix Blasters and Nos Web, Scram, Damp, Speed Full Tank with Dual Reps Any kind of Drone you can think of fit the situation: EW, Small, Med, Heavy, Sentry, Logistic. While you can have a Raven and a Crow together do almost the same thing, you won't do it as well or as versital. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.24 18:00:00 - [73] Lol here is what you , Kehmor, typed in my topic topic Quote: who on earth fits shield extenders on their solo shield tanks. Shield extenders are for: A: missions B: fleets Caldari are fine. A bit change of opinions ?
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.24 18:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kehmor i'm sorry? you are saying torps have "slightly less damage" than pulse lasers? by slightly you mean in the region of 30-40% 730/600 = 1.21 proof or stfu, the torps dont have 600 dps, write here calculations.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 18:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kehmor i'm sorry? you are saying torps have "slightly less damage" than pulse lasers? by slightly you mean in the region of 30-40% 730/600 = 1.21 proof or stfu, the torps dont have 600 dps, write here calculations. Torpedo, tech 1: 450 Launcher RoF 19.2 BCU stats : 1.1, 1.087, 1.057 / .895, .90865, .94015 Skills: 1.25, 1.1 / .9, .85, .75, .9 Launchers: 6 Final DPS: 618.98 Range: 1.25[speed] x 1.5[skill] x 1.5[skill] x 30[flight time] x 1.5[skill] = 126 km. 618 DPS @ 126km. Geddon Pulse 726 @ 45km[Max opt+fallff+ skills = 73.44km] DPS Difference: 17.4% Range Difference: 98.5% Damage type difference: Immeasureable, but... base thermal for the missiles and you get for unhardened tanks these final damage ratios. This assumes that a shield tanker does not seperatly harden their shields to EM. Shield Pulse: 98.18% Shield Missile: 80% Armor Pulse: 42.27% Armor Missile: 65% After damage figured Shield Pulse: 712 Shield Missile: 494.4 Armor Pulse: 306.9 Armor Missile: 397.8 ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.24 19:13:00 - [76] I have found that the majority of people who scream 'nerf caldari' are either basing the ships off of their PvE ability, or think the Rokh and Eagle overpower the whole race. Granted, the Rokh's range is pretty damn sexy. 80km with AM 4tw. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.24 20:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kehmor i'm sorry? you are saying torps have "slightly less damage" than pulse lasers? by slightly you mean in the region of 30-40% 730/600 = 1.21 proof or stfu, the torps dont have 600 dps, write here calculations. Torpedo, tech 1: 450 Launcher RoF 19.2 BCU stats : 1.1, 1.087, 1.057 / .895, .90865, .94015 Skills: 1.25, 1.1 / .9, .85, .75, .9 Launchers: 6 Final DPS: 618.98 Range: 1.25[speed] x 1.5[skill] x 1.5[skill] x 30[flight time] x 1.5[skill] = 126 km. 618 DPS @ 126km. Geddon Pulse 726 @ 45km[Max opt+fallff+ skills = 73.44km] DPS Difference: 17.4% Range Difference: 98.5% Damage type difference: Immeasureable, but... base thermal for the missiles and you get for unhardened tanks these final damage ratios. This assumes that a shield tanker does not seperatly harden their shields to EM. Shield Pulse: 98.18% Shield Missile: 80% Armor Pulse: 42.27% Armor Missile: 65% After damage figured Shield Pulse: 712 Shield Missile: 494.4 Armor Pulse: 306.9 Armor Missile: 397.8 Something ain't write here : Without dmg mods you get 347 dps. And the stacking nerf is a little bit different. Don't forget that fitting anything after torp launchers is a pain with only 2 low slots left.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 21:04:00 - [78] Edited by: Goumindong on 24/02/2007 21:03:22 Originally by: Dragy Something ain't write here : Without dmg mods you get 347 dps. And the stacking nerf is a little bit different. Don't forget that fitting anything after torp launchers is a pain with only 2 low slots left. You get 374 DPS and they are right, i tripple checked them. Three damage mods give you about 65% more DPS. If the damage is too high[which it isnt] then the damage on the Armageddon is also too high[which it isnt] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Lemming Zealot	Posted - 2007.02.24 22:12:00 - [79] Originally by: Goumindong (bunch of numbers) Your numbers are dead on but what would you do with a torp Raven outside 45km? We all know this is a gang PVP situation since someone has to be tackling the target here, so don't forget that torps are going to take something like 20+sec to reach that distance. The Geddon will have dealt nearly 15k damage before the Raven's first volley strikes. I don't want to even start trying to run the numbers on how long a normal gang-pvp BS will stand up to fire from 3-5 other BSs, but I'd bet it's no more than a minute, so the actual damage a Raven will deal in a gang at 45km+ is more like half of what a turret ship will deal. Even if the target somehow survives longer than minute, the turret ship would have easily manuvered into short-range ammo optimal and would be dealing even greater dps before the second or third missile volley strikes. Also, these T2 siege launchers are not too easy on the fittings, so you are not going to be able to throw on your three BCS IIs as well as a huge tank, especialy not with a pair of heavy nos thrown in too (or even one for that matter). Finaly, don't forget that the Raven has a drone bay 50m^3 smaller than the geddon. In fact the only BS with a dronebay smaller than the Raven is the Rokh, but obviously no one cares about drones in 200km sniper fights. I'm not saying the Raven is worthless, just that it's not the uber mid-range pvp gank ship you are making it out to be. That changed when Javelins got triple-nerfed (half range, less damage, larger explosion velocity)
Illuminaty	Posted - 2007.02.24 23:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Iudex Originally by: Kagura Nikon Ok.. you are using cruise missiles. Than show me wich other BS can achieve 500 DPS withits long range guns (artilharies, rails) and can still fit a tank as powerfull as the raven... Make a tempest hit at same range as the raven.. then compara how much tank you can put at the tempest and at the raven... That 500 (actually its even a bit lower) dps are with tech 2 cruise missiles, they go somthing like 50km max, depends on range skills. If you want range youll need tech 1 missiles = reduced damage, not 500 anymore. And you say range - the range is limited by targeting range of the ship, so you need at least 2 sensor boosters, and the raven's tank is gone: sensor boosters in meds, bcu in lows - you can not tank anything. Damage or tank. Tank or range, you can't have all. Besides that most battels happen in close range anyways. When you jump into a system or dock from a station - so who needs the high ranges. And if you really like to snipe, then good luck with cruise missiles, waiting up to half a minute till they arive. Megathron with 425mm Rail IIs with antimatter, quad mag stab IIs, and maxed out skills does does about 525 dps at 37km optimal. Caldari have the biggest skewed world view on their weapon systems. I think ratting causes it. Ratting isn't hard, but when Caldari do it they compleatly ignore 90% of the combat mechanics in the game. Missiles don't miss. 'Short range' missiles go way in the hell farther than short range turrets. 'Long range' missiles do way the hell more dps than long range turrets with long range ammo. It costs you 'time till impact' to get that.

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 23:43:00 - [81] Originally by: Lemming Zealot snip The Geddon cannot fit anything but an HP tank[resists and plates] in that setup. The Raven can. Or it can fit EW[which the Geddon also cannot]. It is not that the raven is uber gank, but what it can do while also ganking. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Seera Enfinity	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:50:00 - [82] ok look as far as i can see you've made your point. you wont ships with higher damage. Cal- are good at range, shelds, and ecm's. if you dont like eather of thouse, and i'm not trying to sound ****ey about this but, dont fly them. they are ships that can only really work if you have a situation that you set up your self that's why they seem to powerfull. they really are but only if applyed in what they are good at. it's just a matter of tweeking the situation untill its some thing that works. this is what makes the seem soo mutch weeker than the other's.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.25 02:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Kehmor have you ever been the only jamming ship in your gang and not been called primary? 5000 armor? pfft, that buys you 10 seconds. As for jamming chance, I think your maths is wrong, or you are talking about jamming cruisers If you use only one of your 4 racials (one of each type) omn the target, yes. If you use all 4, no (and to repeat, I am referring to 1 racial of the right type and 3 of the wrong one). A maxxed BB with 1 ECM mod has a 69% chance to jam a geddon there. Or a 57% chance to jam a raven. Also, every tried the other EW ships? An arbi and celestis both have far lower ranges of their EW, meaning they won't be in range of the longrange battleships, but pretty much every ship. And one TD or SD won't have much of an effect - you need to stack them on your target to disable it. Module for module ECM is far more powerful than them. And about the "So every 20 seconds there is over a 50% chance you will die"...please... last time I looked nothing stops you from warping out at 70-100k distance to your enemy. ECM ships do not have 1 hitpoint and are popped instantly once something breathes on them. Unless you are talking about fleet combat - but there other EW is completely useless because it cannot reach that distances. You can setup ECM ships so they outrange anything but rokhs.
Tecron Caldari Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.25 08:43:00 - [84] Well I fly Caldari and love it plus my other char flies matar so I guess Ill give my opinion. Raven- Excels at mid range battles especially with smaller gangs. You seem to indicate torps as always being short range but my Raven is best sitting right about 50km away hurling death outside any other BS range. You have to remember the Mega has to waste a lot of time and cap to MWD to you and even then they have to stay inside a very small range. Also with 1 sb and 5 slots for tanking my tank is nothing short of beastly and you can still fit 3 damage moods something a Mega cant due. Scorp-My all time favorite fleet ship. Under 100m to t2 fit and insure. With 3 t2 sig disrupt boosters I get very close to pre nerf strength. 3-4 in a fleet will drive your enemy crazy. Rokh-Great when used in specialized sniping runs. I can easily hit from 249 with mine which is almost 100km more than my maxed Tempest. When in a fleet with other BS its abit overpriced for the dps you get. Nighthawk-Similar to the Raven in style. Can do awesome dps with t2 heavy assaults but excels sitting 50km away hurling heavy missiles. Again has an awesome tank. Few weeks ago I called a Nighthawk primary and ended up changing it because our 12 BS + support where taking too long to pop it. We were popping enemy sniping BS in around 30 seconds. Crow- Not my style so I donÆt fly then. Some people love them though just look at all the snake gistii crows you see around. AFs-For every race just fly a cruiser. Eagle-Needs another turret slot to be useful. Takes way too long to kill even t1 frigs. 200km+ range still outranges basically everything though. Cerb-See Nighthawk Recons-About the same as a scorp. I usually fly a scorp because they survive better and are cheaper to lose. Drake-Truly a t1 Nighthawk. Defiantly one of the better BCs in the game. Cheap and extremely effective for what you pay. Tanks like a Cerb and hits harder. The range on heavys and dps on assaults gives makes this a great all around cheap gang support ship. Ferox, Moa-Suck. ThatÆs basically everything I fly. Overall defiantly excel at supporting with ECM, mid range dps, and good tanks. Too slow to be used solo.
Shandling Minmatar Cotton Buds FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.25 08:59:00 - [85] Hey, you guys have hybrids trained... and if you're worth a damn, you have drones trained up too. Just skill up some Gallente ships and proceed to wtfpwn if you don't like Caldari. Your gunnery skills are already in place.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.25 10:10:00 - [86] just for completeness...working this out as I go, so no hiding the facts.... Cruise Caldari Navy Raven...all relevant skills to level 5, except Cruise Missile Spec (level 4). Three Caldari Navy BCS's in lows... Each cruise missile hits for 551.2 on structure, and ROF is 7.10s (Tech II launchers) DPS therefore 551.2 x 7 / 7.10 = 543. I think that's pretty crappy for a ship that expensive. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.25 10:29:00 - [87] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kehmor i'm sorry? you are saying torps have "slightly less damage" than pulse lasers? by slightly you mean in the region of 30-40% 730/600 = 1.21 proof or stfu, the torps dont have 600 dps, write here calculations. actually they do. Every t2 raven pilot knows that. But I believe you can get higher than 730 with pulses.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.25 10:33:00 - [88] Edited by: Kehmor on 25/02/2007 10:30:05 On range: People who are saying how great their range is have either: a) never been in a battle, EVER b) no regard at all for the lives of their gang ok that was a generalisation, range has some use, especially in large gang wrk but for small gangs: Ok so your raven sits 70km away? lets ignore for the moment that it takes your torpedos about 20 seconds to even get to your target. Now whats holding your enemy in place? A gang member. Now while you might be out of that armageddon's or typhoon's or dominixes range, your wing mate is not. Boom. You've lost a ship, he warps out. A similar scenario using a dominix. Your tackler dies. But oh wait, so does your enemy. Not that you need a tackler...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.25 12:42:00 - [89] Originally by: Kehmor actually they do. Every t2 raven pilot knows that. But I believe you can get higher than 730 with pulses. Not @ 45 kilometers without using anything greater than tech 2. Originally by: Kehmor Edited by: Kehmor on 25/02/2007 10:30:05 On range: People who are saying how great their range is have either: a) never been in a battle, EVER b) no regard at all for the lives of their gang ok that was a generalisation, range has some use, especially in large gang wrk but for small gangs: Ok so your raven sits 70km away? lets ignore for the moment that it takes your torpedos about 20 seconds to even get to your target. Now whats holding your enemy in place? A gang member. Now while you might be out of that armageddon's or typhoon's or dominixes range, your wing mate is not. Boom. You've lost a ship, he warps out. A similar scenario using a dominix. Your tackler dies. But oh wait, so does your enemy. Not that you need a tackler... Get a better tackler. Is the crow not a caldari ship? Am i confusing it with something else? Does caldari lack interceptors? [and not conincidentally, the best tools to keep interceptors off of their interceptors] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.25 12:52:00 - [90] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kehmor actually they do. Every t2 raven pilot knows that. But I believe you can get higher than 730 with pulses. Not @ 45 kilometers without using anything greater than tech 2. Originally by: Kehmor Edited by: Kehmor on 25/02/2007 10:30:05 On range: People who are saying how great their range is have either: a) never been in a battle, EVER b) no regard at all for the lives of their gang ok that was a generalisation, range has some use, especially in large gang wrk but for small gangs: Ok so your raven sits 70km away? lets ignore for the moment that it takes your torpedos about 20 seconds to even get to your target. Now whats holding your enemy in place? A gang member. Now while you might be out of that armageddon's or typhoon's or dominixes range, your wing mate is not. Boom. You've lost a ship, he warps out. A similar scenario using a dominix. Your tackler dies. But oh wait, so does your enemy. Not that you need a tackler... Get a better tackler. Is the crow not a caldari ship? Am i confusing it with something else? Does caldari lack interceptors? [and not conincidentally, the best tools to keep interceptors off of their interceptors] I was talking about max damage on the ships... Go read my post. As to tackler, I didn't realise crows could run everything with a single heavy nos on them, a module EVERYONE has.



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