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JaiMaster	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:18:00 - [121] market post "wtb 1600mm plates x5 for mining ops in 0.0 space" ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
Wildcat	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:18:00 - [122] hehe I understand the Mining thing. Im just commenting on hunting, not mining ;) Anyway will be interesting to see if anyone comes up with ideas for mining ops in 0.0 now hehe
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:23:00 - [123] I haven't hit 0.0 yet (I did hunt a bit in 0.2, and it was the same old game of shooting fish in a barrel) but this sounds insane. Sure there should be places to hunt large groups of very tough pirates for high rewards, BUT there had better ALSO be places to hunt smaller groups too. Every MMOG needs big large-group hunting areas, small-group hunting areas, and solo hunting areas... so where now are the 1-3 person groups supposed to go to hunt? I am in an 8-person corp. I have ZERO interest in joining a larger corp... I'll quit the game first. We were together before EVE was even released (as an Earth and Beyond guild) and we consider playing with people you know and like more important than having more manpower... just like the MANY other small corps out there. If we can't mine any rare minerals with a 5 man team or hunt NPCs with a 3 battleship fleet, what the hell is left? PVP? No thank you... I don't want to be a pirate or bounty hunter, and we're in no alliance. Agent missions? For me, yes. I'm a researcher. But half my corp hates agent missions. Mining in Empire space? Uh... wasn't the whole point to REDUCE Empire space mining, not ENCOURAGE it? CCP needs to reduce normal pirate spawns to 1-2 battleships with a few cruiser escorts in most places, and have 0.0 "points of interest" like pirate hideouts with large NPC groups. Keep the occasional double spawn to keep people on their toes, but don't shut small groups out of 0.0 mining and hunting if you expect to keep your subscribers... Note: I am NOT suggesting that people be able to fly around solo without risk. But the majority of the player base are NOT in alliances or megacorps, so there had better be plenty of places for small group hunting and mining. Put the Arkonor near huge pirate swarms if you want to, but leave some Bistot in places a couple of battleships can mine...
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:24:00 - [124] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 17/12/2003 11:25:19 As far as the ore goes I have enough for 2 BS's so I am not that worried about it till CCP implements "wear and tear" for items. Thats when peeps will no longer have things that last forever. Those of you that did not stock pile your minerals, thats what you get for not having a reserve. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
velox	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:26:00 - [125] Seems to me the bigger issue is how are we to catch up and develop tech II if no one has the ability to mine mega. The new 100MNW MWD needs 10 pieces putting a build cost at about 700k, at sundays mega prices. If 10 battleships fighting npc's loose 2 ships they have a loss between 120 and 200 mill + mod's/weaps. If they were protecting a mining outfit the miners would need to recover 15k units of bistot just to cover the costs of loosing 2 ships. I believe that 0.0 space definately meeded to get tougher but this seems to be an extreme. Surely the npc corps should be under the similar constrants that we are ruled by for example if a Gurista corp can afford to constantly fill the fields with cruisers and battleships where are the npc orders from this corp form minerals etc to support the level of resources they have. I for one don't care how tough they make the npc's as long as they have the to play by the same constraints as we do. If we wanted to target a group of npc's in a field we don't have a choice to warp into that field 20km from their location so how can they have this facility. Also for them to have fully developed tech II systems is also an im-balance as they should of had to gear up the same way we are. Only now getting the right resources to do so will be tough. How long do you think it will be before the average corp can field a dozen tech II cruisers and 5-10 BS's because until they can mounting a sustained minning operation in 0.0 for ark or bistot is going to be suicide. Its a real shame that they decided to increase the spawn sizes drastically from those that were on Chaos. My final thought is... I thought they were trying to get people out of Empire space not send them back there. Velox Always aiming one step beyond the edge.
p0ma	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:33:00 - [126] I agree the rats are tough as hell now....but hmm...I made 5 mil isk very quickly killing the little buggers. I finally found a 850k isk rat, no idea if BS or CR....I killed it quickly, then hit the Scramblers/Webbers that were headed to me, then last I hit their raw artillery that was still 40km away. 70% armor left :) It seemed as if I would get to open the 850k isk can...but once within 35km of it...sigh.....the HELLSPAWN occurred....no idea how many there were, seemed like 20. Flipped my shield booster on and then blink... DT crashed my screen. I have a strong suspicion after downtime I'll learn of the destruction of my Tempest.....but yah never know eh? :) ---------------------------------------- "Cry Exploit and let slip the Dogs of War"
Deadzone	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:34:00 - [127] I have to agree that 20-30 spawns in ONE belt is a bit excessive. And the spawn time for said ships is a bit insane as well. If they keep the current number of spawns, then spawn time needs to be upped. If they keep current spawn time, then the # of spawns needs to be reduced some. CCP, please take heed of this info. Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Hadead Drive Yards
Leshiy	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:37:00 - [128] All newbyes crying again. I destroy 1 ArchAngel Commander and run/Then I come back to belt and destroy all 5 or 6 cruisers.I do it along.A little advise to expirienced pilots just keep nps bs in range 60-70km and use lasers with radio cristals. ____________ MiD officer RUS Corp
dalman	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:43:00 - [129] Quote: All newbyes crying again. I destroy 1 ArchAngel Commander and run/Then I come back to belt and destroy all 5 or 6 cruisers.I do it along.A little advise to expirienced pilots just keep nps bs in range 60-70km and use lasers with radio cristals. Well, my good enemy. You can do that trick one time. And 5 times. Maybe 20 times. But there will come one time when all those NPCs suddenly warp to you and land in 5km range from you. BTW, I love the new NPCs. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Drutort	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:44:00 - [130] Quote: All newbyes crying again. I destroy 1 ArchAngel Commander and run/Then I come back to belt and destroy all 5 or 6 cruisers.I do it along.A little advise to expirienced pilots just keep nps bs in range 60-70km and use lasers with radio cristals. GG i guess you dont need to mine... but wait if nobody can mine all that isk would mean nothing because there would be nothing to build ships with why wont ppl get a clue, i only see few ppl who get it, its not that we cant kill read the other posts those who got it support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog

Fuse	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:44:00 - [131] Quote: 0.0 is not a playground anymore... If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! Over and out. Well this just an insightful piece of poetry. I wish we were all brilliant like you. Does this have anything to do with the current situation? NO! [Insert rude comment here.]
Leshiy	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:49:00 - [132] Hello Dalman! I think that you right (maybe). But at this moment with my apoc i can deal with 2 npc bs and 4-5 cruiser.And my practice show it ____________ MiD officer RUS Corp
Leshiy	Posted - 2003.12.17 11:51:00 - [133] Btw we are (RUS) mining all the morning and will do it after downtime.Hehe ____________ MiD officer RUS Corp
dalman	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:12:00 - [134] Quote: Hello Dalman! I think that you right (maybe). But at this moment with my apoc i can deal with 2 npc bs and 4-5 cruiser.And my practice show it Hmm, don't you have lots of frigates in the spawns where you are? Typical spawns in Stain is between 15 and 20 NPCs. Usually like 1 battleship + 6 cruisers + 10 frigates. Sometimes 2 battleships. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Leshiy	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:33:00 - [135] I've got 1-2bs,4-6cruisers and some times 5-6 frigates here. ____________ MiD officer RUS Corp
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:37:00 - [136] The spawns are tough. I think eventually people will get used to dealing with them, but I know right now that I would rather fight 2 real live players in battleships than face one of these 0.0 NPC spawns. If the spawns are going to be this nuts, my only request is that they make EW work... Shamis
dalman	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:45:00 - [137] Adding a shot of a spawn: That is: 2x 500000 battleship 2x 85000 cruiser 4x 65000 cruiser 10x 12500 frigate M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Muad' Dib	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:31:00 - [138] Yeah, this is ridiculous....
Shai 'Hulud	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:37:00 - [139] Edited by: Shai 'Hulud on 17/12/2003 13:45:23 I know sheÆs long, so you wonÆt hurt my feelings if you skip my post. But I feel that it outlines exactly how this patch, if left unchanged, could spell the end of a game that I love. CCP has to understand the severity of this situation, as they seem not to have gotten the point so far. First lets examine the response to this problem from the true god of EVE, CCP. And I qoute, "Castor NPCs are considerably more powerful than Gemni NPCs. They are both more clever and have T2 at their disposal. Be very careful in lower security systems. Use the 50km warp in option to case before you attack." All this seems to be true, as most of you that have posted here have found. Oddly enough, however, this statement expressing the true difficulty of the NPCs comes one day late, after so many ships have been lost. Even the advise that they give, to warp in 50km away, seems to be useless, as it has been stated that these pirates gain ôveryö quickly. The most troubling part of this statement, however, is that it says "get used to it" rather than "we are working on it." Apparantly the in game flow of the EVE universe has been a complete accident, because CCP has absolutely no understanding what-so-ever of how EVE's economy works. For that matter, any of you that have praised this patch can be put in the same boat. Still worse, if this patch were to not imply the fall of EVEÆs economy, it would still crush the game play in EVE for all but the proud owners of battleships that are in mega corps. Without production the entire game of EVE would come to a halt. Save perhaps a game in which the only ships people fly are those sold by NPC entities. This is important because if you believe that player run production can continue within this system, you are simply lying to yourself. While most productions do not require much megacyte or zydrine, most that are important do require at least a little. As the game is now, the flow of these two resources will all but halt. Let me point out the selfishness of you who have found ways to effectively make money by killing some of these NPCÆs without dying yourself, and then declared the patch a success. Just because you can warp in, get a nice bounty pay, and warp out doesnÆt mean that you have found the solution to the problem at hand. As is right now, only mega corps with substantial numbers of battleships will be able to get any meg/zyd at all. Without these resources production will come to a halt and the game of EVE will be rewinded to release day. Granted this will take quite a while, but it will be inevitable. As players lose their ships, particularly battleships and cruisers, they will not be able to afford new ones, because not even CCP has an idea of how much meg/zyd are going to soon cost. Even the small amount that is extracted from these death zones will mainly be reserved for replenishing the fleets of the corps that mine it. In other words, very little to none of the very small amount of rare minerals that are actually mined will be translated into items/minerals sold to players outside these big corps. Some of you would say that I have just stated the very solution to the ôchallengeö CCP has given us. You would say that we should team up and join big corps to effectively be able to mine these minerals. While this may be a possible solution to the mineral problem, and I still doubt it would solve it, it creates still more problems. As this game is right now there is a very distinct curve in the game. There are those who have battleships, and those who donÆt. Those are the two classes of the game. Under this system, only those who have battleships can actually take advantage of all the features promised in the game. This is because only those with battleships can partake in any activities based outside empire space. In other words, those of us who donÆt have battleships can either serve under those who do in low security space or stay in empire space. To stay in empire space restricts players because they are then limited to high security systems. They are not able to take advantage of the varieties in gameplay offered by low security systems. So we may now assign roles to our two classes. Those with battleships may ôattemptö to enjoy the full array of features offered by the game by venturing into low security space. Thos that do not have battleships may either run agent missions or mine omber. Of course we must include the one option that remains open to both, pirating. But even this will die, because pirates are restricted to low security space and, as we have established, only large groups of battleships will be venturing out there.
dalman	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:43:00 - [140] Quote: Yeah, this is ridiculous.... No, it's fun. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30

Shai 'Hulud	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:46:00 - [141] I would also like to say that for the most part, those of you that have posted in favor of this patch have either not tested it out yet, or have not considered whether mining is possible. You praise the idea, but have not actually considered whether the idea has been implemented correctly. This was a good idea that was exaggerated. I personally feel that the game has too many battleships in it, and that this number needs to be reduced. The most logical way to do this is to make them cost more, and the most logical way to do that is to make the mineral needed harder to get. If battleships are more expensive, then as people lose them they will find it harder to replace them. In this way, the best ships in the game will no longer be the norm, but will become the rare trophy that they should be. CCP simply went too far. We need to strike a balance between what was seen pre-Castor and post-Castor. As the game is right now, the number of players in EVE will quickly fall over the coming weeks and soon enough there wonÆt be a game to worry about. I truly hope that CCP does not allow this to happen.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:51:00 - [142] Why can't people spend more than a day trying these things out... "I went out just like I always do, and got beat down. make it easier again, so I can cook my dinner whilst attacking a full spawn. Actually learning tactics/loadouts, and watching the screen is not my idea of fun." Learn to adapt, people. It's what seperates humans from algae. if they make them easy now, then when players start getting tech2 guns and shields, it will be back to how it was pre-patch: dull as dishwater. The only challenge before this patch was to see how many NPC's you could one-shot from 100km, in a 2-hour spawn session. If people bothered to read before they write, they might have seen the post about them fixing the huge numbers that spawn at once. .
Ravenal	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:57:00 - [143] this thing looks like the pirate patch back when the first cruisers were appearing in eve. you know, the patch before they moved the high level ore out of empire space. back then the rats warped on top of you, warp scrambled you even before they had appeared and killed you before you could blink...this looks exacly the same but they have bigger ships (so have we btw - so its EXACLY the same) the option of 50km warp is a lifesaver though - compared to the last time this thing happened...but i think this is cool :) some tuning has yet to be done - i dont think they the npcs should spawn on top of you as they seem to be doing - rather a slightly random warp in point should do the trick. :) ...new sig coming up Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it.
Trianon Starstealer	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:05:00 - [144] Quote: Livewire what is your point??? Last I checked rare ore doesnt spawn in 1.0 systems, unless I was misinformed about that. Also did you ever get loot drops off COncord BS's? His point is... he has the right to be a moron and he is goign to exploit that by postign crap.....
Ricco Lonestar	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:08:00 - [145] I havent tried it myself yet, but as it seems, you need a Fleet of ships to hunt npc now and even that is tricky (fleet of 10 battleships of which 3 were lost i remember someone saying) This effectively also means mining in 0.0 space it OUT of the question, hence most people will have no place to be in 0.0 space, so they will trade 0.0 space in for empire/safe space. And in effect, pirate players won't have much left to hunt. Of course, we will have to see how this turns out if/when CCP sees the light and steps in. In my oppinion they should at least look at how fast npc rats respawn. ___________________________________________ To survive in shark infested waters u dont need to swim faster then the sharks.... u only need to swim faster then the other ppl in there with u.
Trianon Starstealer	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:10:00 - [146] Quote: why does everyone one think the ideal difficulty level is: "I want to go out alone in my BS, and come back undamaged and rich" I'm sure they'll fix it up soon, then you can go back to long-distance solo sniping... I would like to go out in my BS and have a chance of coming back............ period....
Synex	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:29:00 - [147] Quote: Quote: why does everyone one think the ideal difficulty level is: "I want to go out alone in my BS, and come back undamaged and rich" I'm sure they'll fix it up soon, then you can go back to long-distance solo sniping... I would like to go out in my BS and have a chance of coming back............ period.... Ah... you'll be wanting to npc farm in 0.6 space then ;)
MORRS	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:42:00 - [148] I like the toughness of the pirates, but going to be hard to mine with those mean bastards. We warped in on 5 plus bs's the rest all cruisers 15-20 in all. We had 9 bs's and one frig......we lost two bs's
mk ultra	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:48:00 - [149] bah everyone was setup for npc hunting , yall just need some tuning , now npc hunting is like pc hunting you gotta be ready for everything thats all . ------------------------ <Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken. <honx> well, you can stil get one from a strange country :-P
Oveur	Posted - 2003.12.17 14:49:00 - [150] Quote: CCP has to understand the severity of this situation, as they seem not to have gotten the point so far. First lets examine the response to this problem from the true god of EVE, CCP. And I qoute, "Castor NPCs are considerably more powerful than Gemni NPCs. They are both more clever and have T2 at their disposal. Be very careful in lower security systems. Use the 50km warp in option to case before you attack." All this seems to be true, as most of you that have posted here have found. Oddly enough, however, this statement expressing the true difficulty of the NPCs comes one day late, after so many ships have been lost. Even the advise that they give, to warp in 50km away, seems to be useless, as it has been stated that these pirates gain ôveryö quickly. The most troubling part of this statement, however, is that it says "get used to it" rather than "we are working on it." I'd like to refer you to our news section, our Patch Review Forum and specifically this post about Castor. You will see that the first notice in the news about pirates is the reference to the changes on the 14th of december, again on the 16th before the patch and again on the 17th to make sure if people missed the other three. The patch review thread has also been around for a while. Quote: Without production the entire game of EVE would come to a halt. Save perhaps a game in which the only ships people fly are those sold by NPC entities. This is important because if you believe that player run production can continue within this system, you are simply lying to yourself. While most productions do not require much megacyte or zydrine, most that are important do require at least a little. As the game is now, the flow of these two resources will all but halt. I have also addressed what is the problem with the NPC pirates on General Discussion threads about the patch and the DevBlog. It's the distribution. And when the distribution is corrected, there will be ample space to mine minerals in, but the current strenght will be available to those who seek it. I hope I have answered your questions sufficiently. If not, just post again _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.



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