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New Codemonkey Dev Blog, More Info about Contracts and Revelations 1.4

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kieron	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:29:00 - [1] Revelations 1.4 is tentatively scheduled for deployment next month and will be focusing on bug fixes, usability upgrades and client improvements. One of the many upgrades/inprovements will be additions and changes to the Contracts interface. So, what are these changes? More filtering options, a new 'Start Page', and an Ignored Users list are just a few of updates that will come with Revelations 1.4. Want more information? Check out Codemonkey's Dev Blog. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Szprinkoth Sponsz ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:35:00 - [2] Isn't 50 bil awfully cheap for a titan?

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:40:00 - [3] Freaking awesome. Lots of feedback incorporated into this revision <3 ___ Email Us \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:46:00 - [4] Nice try, but your not even close to making contracts usable. First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time. Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back. If you really are serious about reducing lag in jita than you have to give people a reason not to sell in jita. You may have made casual browsing easier with being able to see an entire group of mods, but you still got along way to go to make contracts truely usable.
Juntos	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:47:00 - [5] Awesome news, thanks :)
Sha'Uri Dark Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Code Monkey This will prove quite useful for finding those elusive private contracts. Sounds great. -------------------------------- As a Freelancer...scratch that Originally by: Shar Tegral Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us. said it best.
Br0wn 0ps	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:25:00 - [7] Anyone for some freaky monkey sex? <3 the changes.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:26:00 - [8] Faction ammo love? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease? That said, looks awesome! MP -- TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs.
Br0wn 0ps	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Riley Craven First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time. Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back. QFT, QFT, QFT....love the changes Monkeyboy, keep them coming...take Riley Craven's suggestion to heart, as they are truly needed.
fisty Black Omega Security Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:44:00 - [10] finally.... Ciao

Inspiration	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:49:00 - [11] Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 19:50:47 "And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4" You CAN'T be serious.... This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR! People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions. Not only causes this a lot of GREEF, but in general a lot of peeps fly over from all over the place for pretty much nothing! Only the residents in 'The forge' might find it acceptable. And what about all the other screwups with Contract, like sorting, paging, searching? DEVS, I am seriously getting ****ed this week by the visionless changes that are being brougt in. After the opening line I quoted above, I could hardly read any further! Seriously if people working for me would be so ignorant like this, they would get the boot!!! Clean up your acts!
Ebedar Gallente Primary Intelligence	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:52:00 - [12] Nice initial changes to the Contract system. Let's hope there will be further changes in line with player suggestions to render Contracts more useable. Glad to see our requests aren't falling on deaf ears, too.
Alz Shado Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:05:00 - [13] Please let contracts die a quiet, dignified death. This is moving past dead-horse-beating into realms of unbefore explored realms of cruel futility. If they were only useless then it wouldn't be so bad. But they replaced two systems that were both terribly flawed but worked. And limiting the number you can have, and then limiting their usefullness further by gimping auctions to alliances only? Perhaps if it was designed better in the first place, scammers wouldn't be the only ones using them! If you want to make contracts work: a) They have to be easy to use. Too many different types are just confusing. All you need is a simple What->Who->Where->Why wizard: What do you want? Who do you want to do it? Where do you want it done? Why will it be done (reward, cost, etc). b) They have to be accessible to anyone, not just those who train up a week of skills. In the long term, it's a good idea to limit the amount of contracts an individual can post. But in the short term, if you don't have the skill and you just want to post something up -- tough luck. Don't get me started on the listing fees. c) They have to be useful. A free form query is about as friendly as a New York City Cabdriver. You need to be a DBA just to find anything! And this isn't just about the interface, the search is hopelessly narrow. Adding categories is a step in the right direction, but what about items that aren't listed in the marketplace? Can we find faction gear? More importantly, can we trust that whatever we found listed as faction gear IS the gear we want? d) Fill them up! Right now it's empty. Noone uses it, so noone searches it. It's a catch-22 that all these problems just exacerbate. Why should anyone list something in Contracts, if it's never going to sell, because noone looks there? The easy answer is: add links to contracts in the Market window! If I make an exchange contract Trit-for-Uranium, for example, have a link to it pop up when someone does a search for Trit or Uranium in the market window. Let us know how many times a particular contract has been viewed so we can tell if a particular term or item is popular. The bottom line is, the Contract system is the cure that's worse than what it was trying to fix. Courier missions worked fine before, now it's difficult to get anything picked up in more remote areas. Escrows were slow and full of scams, but so are contracts! And it worked like a good marketplace should, always full, always easy to find what you were looking for (if titled properly) even if it wasn't local. Don't reinvent the wheel, if all you're doing is making it square.
Wild Xenria Gallente Xeno Mining Industries	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:30:00 - [14] I like contracts, plus the new changes sound good. To be honest my favourite bit is being able to browse while out in space, I never wanted to sit in a station long enough with escrow. Nice plans all in all.
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:30:00 - [15] sigh, we need the ability to search all regions. Its ****ing annoying sitting there for twenty minutes trying to find a single item...
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:56:00 - [16] Yeah, for the fixes. Yeah, for sticking to the regional limitations. Jita is "The Hub" in EVE because of it's location. The lag problem existed when escrow was unlimited. When ever I searched the old escrow system for something all I ever found were the Jita entries that got spammed every few hours, so blaming contracts for encouraging trading in Jita is just plain incorrect. I can say for one that the change to the current contract system has made finding what I want (deals in nearby regions) infinitely easier. It's also made getting the courier missions I want run faster and more effective (the courier runners local to me see what I have available with little to no effort). The only improvement I can see for couriers would be to show courier missions that terminate in a region as well as those that originate in a region. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Pang Grohl Yeah, for the fixes. Yeah, for sticking to the regional limitations. Jita is "The Hub" in EVE because of it's location. The lag problem existed when escrow was unlimited. When ever I searched the old escrow system for something all I ever found were the Jita entries that got spammed every few hours, so blaming contracts for encouraging trading in Jita is just plain incorrect. I can say for one that the change to the current contract system has made finding what I want (deals in nearby regions) infinitely easier. It's also made getting the courier missions I want run faster and more effective (the courier runners local to me see what I have available with little to no effort). The only improvement I can see for couriers would be to show courier missions that terminate in a region as well as those that originate in a region. While you are right that Jita was here long before the current contract problem, contracts has only made the issue worse.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Alz Shado and then limiting their usefullness further by gimping auctions to alliances only? Perhaps if it was designed better in the first place, scammers wouldn't be the only ones using them! ]from the blog, thats not what happenening at all. the change is limiting Corporation Limited auctions to members of your alliance. removing the current number one (or at least top 3) contract scam from the general public. you can still try scamming you alliance mates, good luck with that. and you can still make a public auction for anyone to bid on
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:23:00 - [19] regarding jita and the no global one its also a lag thing and at the same time CCP like their hubs so they arent i na hurry to remove em
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Moraguth on 26/02/2007 21:34:39 Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums. CCP: Great changes, I really like the new start page, you have no idea how many times i've had to walk someone through the process of finding a certain contract (they'd issued, issued to them, they had won). Sometimes I even got lost myself and had to restart. Thank you. To the dude that thinks that auctions are no longer allowed, go re-read it. Public auctions are still good. Private auctions are now restricted to your own alliance/corp. This was a major source of scamming. I support the scamming, but this particular scam didn't prey on people, it preyed on a system not working as intended. CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction. Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community. EDIT: for the devs and the guy complaining about how contracts aren't usable and do nothing for lag, how long till plans for Interbus will be more ready for publishing? good game

Inspiration	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:39:00 - [21] Originally by: hotgirl933 regarding jita and the no global one its also a lag thing and at the same time CCP like their hubs so they arent i na hurry to remove em Thats not very customer centric thinking, now is it? I just get annoyed having to scan region for region, using three or four different search methods in order to have a chance to find what I need. The search functionality is totaly broken, so is the display and paging/sorting. Having to scan different regions on top of that makes finding something a nightmare. Did I mention that the search results are inconsitent as well? Then if I do find something, I have to fly over and am practicaly FORCED to do a buyout if I want any chance of getting the item. Short of camping the station 24H a day. Why you would ask, as I don't live in Jita and with normal auction bids, somone will just top you and you have to fly over again. And no, I ain't a modules trader...I just like to have good stuff for my CNR, so what kind of gameplay design is this crap? The old escrow system with all its flaws was much better in usability. They just had to make it bot unfriendly, make private escows visible always and implement some decent search options. But what do I know, I am just a player!
Quaird	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:39:00 - [22] Please add being able to remotely accept a contract in another region. Even if you still have to manually serch each region for an item, you can not accept it so there is a good chance it will be gone by the time you get there (ie wasted trip and frustration all round). By allowing remote acceptance I can do one trip every few weeks to a particular region instead of one each time I need something (which may be gone by the time I get there anyway).
Inspiration	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:43:31 Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:42:49 Originally by: Moraguth Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums. Ok, thats a troll! Originally by: Moraguth CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction. You basicly say, its good that I waste my time! Who are you to decide that is good for me? Originally by: Moraguth Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community. Trolling?
Miranda Duvall Gallente OPM Holdings	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:17:00 - [24] Is there any way to filter item exchange contracts by the item wanted instead of offered? Lets say I have a very cool "Widget II", a very rare item indeed, and I want to see what ppl are offering in exchange, be it billions upon billions of isk, or the equally rare "Flunsk", or a dozen Fleet Issue Ravens... You get the point. Isn't it great being a skill collector? Top 20 My Skills
Alz Shado Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Tek'a Rain from the blog, thats not what happenening at all. the change is limiting Corporation Limited auctions to members of your alliance. removing the current number one (or at least top 3) contract scam from the general public. you can still try scamming you alliance mates, good luck with that. and you can still make a public auction for anyone to bid on That's not what the Blog says: Quote: Auctions can no longer be issued to corporations outside your own alliance. I'm assuming that's to prevent the "Avoid the Tax" scam where the seller is convinced to put an auction up to a corp with a low starting bid and the max bid at what they want the item to sell at, then the corp just bids the minimum and takes it for practically nothing. The easy fix would be to allow auction contracts to be cancelled within the first hour of submitting it. Personally, I don't see it as a good idea to limit anything to alliances, considering how many players aren't in (big) alliances to begin with.
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:45:00 - [26] WoW looks great, all heading in the right direction. What about upping the total limit of corp contracts that a corp can have active at once? 60 Corp Contracts is very easy to do for a large industrial corp that does rare item reselling, pre-arranged bulk orders, and BPC sale. With my current corp contracting at lvl4, and on its way to lvl5. I could max out the total allowed ammout of contracts for the corp, leaving the other 20 guys in corp who need to use corp contracts to conduct corp business with out a leg to stand on. Or is this just another unintended oversight, with the dev time not realising that 60 concurrent corp contracts isnt enough to do a brisk and proper business with? p.s. I do love the new changes, and thanks for fixing the corp auction scam, I hated having to explain to poor newbies that they just got robbed. -- Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Alz Shado Personally, I don't see it as a good idea to limit anything to alliances, considering how many players aren't in (big) alliances to begin with. you can still do public auctions, you just can do auctions assigned to a corp, unless that corp is in your alliance. At least thats how I read it. -- Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:11:00 - [28] 1. Ignore list: finally 2. Start Page: Make sure its optional. I DO NOT want to have to make one additional useless click on top of the myriad of other useless clicks i have to make. The system should remember in what state it was when i closed it. Clicking the contract button again should open with the last tab (aviable contracts for me). 3. Sorting: Make sure it makes sense. Sorting for battleships isnt exactly what people want. Sorting for things like t2 BPOs or officer Smartbombs however ... It wont be too bad if it works roughly the way the variations tab does, but you are missing a lot of potential. Ask if you need help with categories and i will make a list for super-groups. ("Officer loot", "shield tank", etc). 4. Freeform contracts: make sure the barriers dont involve even more clicks, or the legitimate users (both of them) will be punished even more. Realistic suggestions: 1. Kill the damn wizard. Condense 4 steps of issuing a contract into one. Im so damn tired of going back 3 pages because i mispelled the name of the guy im restricting the contract for.
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:27:00 - [29] Edited by: Treelox on 26/02/2007 23:24:28 Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Realistic suggestions: 1. Kill the damn wizard. Condense 4 steps of issuing a contract into one. Im so damn tired of going back 3 pages because i misspelled the name of the guy im restricting the contract for. At least do away with Step 2. Allow us, if we wish to escrow multiple items, to CTRL-click multiple items from our/corp hanger and then right click, select "Create Contract", to bundle them all in one contract. edited i r no speiler -- Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Nadarius Chrome Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:45:00 - [30] Originally by: The Blog Filtering by Category and Group Woohooooo! No more searching for 20 different types of "Large Armor Repairer". Originally by: The Blog Start Page Optional please. Seriously. Enough clicking already. Originally by: The Blog Ignored Issuers list Woohooooo x 2! Spamz0rs and scammz0rs beware. Originally by: The Blog Bug... Err.. Features Does this include adding the items missing off the item lists? EG Machariel?



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