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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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kieron
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:29:00 -
[1]
Revelations 1.4 is tentatively scheduled for deployment next month and will be focusing on bug fixes, usability upgrades and client improvements. One of the many upgrades/inprovements will be additions and changes to the Contracts interface.
So, what are these changes? More filtering options, a new 'Start Page', and an Ignored Users list are just a few of updates that will come with Revelations 1.4. Want more information? Check out Codemonkey's Dev Blog.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
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Szprinkoth Sponsz
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:35:00 -
[2]
Isn't 50 bil awfully cheap for a titan? 
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:40:00 -
[3]
Freaking awesome. Lots of feedback incorporated into this revision <3
___
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
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Riley Craven
Caldari
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:46:00 -
[4]
Nice try, but your not even close to making contracts usable.
First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time.
Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back.
If you really are serious about reducing lag in jita than you have to give people a reason not to sell in jita.
You may have made casual browsing easier with being able to see an entire group of mods, but you still got along way to go to make contracts truely usable.
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Juntos
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:47:00 -
[5]
Awesome news, thanks :)
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Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:01:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Code Monkey
This will prove quite useful for finding those elusive private contracts.
Sounds great.
--------------------------------
As a Freelancer...scratch that Originally by: Shar Tegral
Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us.
said it best. |
Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:25:00 -
[7]
Anyone for some freaky monkey sex? <3 the changes.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:26:00 -
[8]
Faction ammo love? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?
That said, looks awesome!
MP
--
TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Riley Craven
First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time.
Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back.
QFT, QFT, QFT....love the changes Monkeyboy, keep them coming...take Riley Craven's suggestion to heart, as they are truly needed.
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fisty
Black Omega Security
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:44:00 -
[10]
finally....
Ciao |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:49:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 19:50:47
"And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4"
 You CAN'T be serious....
 This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR!
People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions.
Not only causes this a lot of GREEF, but in general a lot of peeps fly over from all over the place for pretty much nothing! Only the residents in 'The forge' might find it acceptable.
And what about all the other screwups with Contract, like sorting, paging, searching?
DEVS, I am seriously getting ****ed this week by the visionless changes that are being brougt in. After the opening line I quoted above, I could hardly read any further! Seriously if people working for me would be so ignorant like this, they would get the boot!!!
Clean up your acts!
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Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:52:00 -
[12]
Nice initial changes to the Contract system. Let's hope there will be further changes in line with player suggestions to render Contracts more useable.
Glad to see our requests aren't falling on deaf ears, too.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:05:00 -
[13]
Please let contracts die a quiet, dignified death. This is moving past dead-horse-beating into realms of unbefore explored realms of cruel futility. If they were only useless then it wouldn't be so bad. But they replaced two systems that were both terribly flawed but worked. And limiting the number you can have, and then limiting their usefullness further by gimping auctions to alliances only? Perhaps if it was designed better in the first place, scammers wouldn't be the only ones using them!
If you want to make contracts work:
a) They have to be easy to use. Too many different types are just confusing. All you need is a simple What->Who->Where->Why wizard: What do you want? Who do you want to do it? Where do you want it done? Why will it be done (reward, cost, etc).
b) They have to be accessible to anyone, not just those who train up a week of skills. In the long term, it's a good idea to limit the amount of contracts an individual can post. But in the short term, if you don't have the skill and you just want to post something up -- tough luck. Don't get me started on the listing fees.
c) They have to be useful. A free form query is about as friendly as a New York City Cabdriver. You need to be a DBA just to find anything! And this isn't just about the interface, the search is hopelessly narrow. Adding categories is a step in the right direction, but what about items that aren't listed in the marketplace? Can we find faction gear? More importantly, can we trust that whatever we found listed as faction gear *IS* the gear we want?
d) Fill them up! Right now it's empty. Noone uses it, so noone searches it. It's a catch-22 that all these problems just exacerbate. Why should anyone list something in Contracts, if it's never going to sell, because noone looks there? The easy answer is: add links to contracts in the Market window! If I make an exchange contract Trit-for-Uranium, for example, have a link to it pop up when someone does a search for Trit or Uranium in the market window. Let us know how many times a particular contract has been viewed so we can tell if a particular term or item is popular.
The bottom line is, the Contract system is the cure that's worse than what it was trying to fix. Courier missions worked fine before, now it's difficult to get anything picked up in more remote areas. Escrows were slow and full of scams, but so are contracts! And it worked like a good marketplace should, always full, always easy to find what you were looking for (if titled properly) even if it wasn't local.
Don't reinvent the wheel, if all you're doing is making it square.
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Wild Xenria
Gallente
Xeno Mining Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:30:00 -
[14]
I like contracts, plus the new changes sound good. To be honest my favourite bit is being able to browse while out in space, I never wanted to sit in a station long enough with escrow.
Nice plans all in all.
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Menkaure
Amarr
Vanitas Corp.
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:30:00 -
[15]
sigh, we *need* the ability to search all regions. Its ****ing annoying sitting there for twenty minutes trying to find a single item...
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:56:00 -
[16]
Yeah, for the fixes. Yeah, for sticking to the regional limitations.
Jita is "The Hub" in EVE because of it's location. The lag problem existed when escrow was unlimited. When ever I searched the old escrow system for something all I ever found were the Jita entries that got spammed every few hours, so blaming contracts for encouraging trading in Jita is just plain incorrect.
I can say for one that the change to the current contract system has made finding what I want (deals in nearby regions) infinitely easier. It's also made getting the courier missions I want run faster and more effective (the courier runners local to me see what I have available with little to no effort). The only improvement I can see for couriers would be to show courier missions that terminate in a region as well as those that originate in a region.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Riley Craven
Caldari
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Yeah, for the fixes. Yeah, for sticking to the regional limitations.
Jita is "The Hub" in EVE because of it's location. The lag problem existed when escrow was unlimited. When ever I searched the old escrow system for something all I ever found were the Jita entries that got spammed every few hours, so blaming contracts for encouraging trading in Jita is just plain incorrect.
I can say for one that the change to the current contract system has made finding what I want (deals in nearby regions) infinitely easier. It's also made getting the courier missions I want run faster and more effective (the courier runners local to me see what I have available with little to no effort). The only improvement I can see for couriers would be to show courier missions that terminate in a region as well as those that originate in a region.
While you are right that Jita was here long before the current contract problem, contracts has only made the issue worse.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alz Shado
and then limiting their usefullness further by gimping auctions to alliances only? Perhaps if it was designed better in the first place, scammers wouldn't be the only ones using them!
]from the blog, thats not what happenening at all. the change is limiting Corporation Limited auctions to members of your alliance. removing the current number one (or at least top 3) contract scam from the general public.
you can still try scamming you alliance mates, good luck with that. and you can still make a public auction for anyone to bid on
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:23:00 -
[19]
regarding jita and the no global one its also a lag thing and at the same time CCP like their hubs so they arent i na hurry to remove em
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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Moraguth on 26/02/2007 21:34:39
Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums.
CCP: Great changes, I really like the new start page, you have no idea how many times i've had to walk someone through the process of finding a certain contract (they'd issued, issued to them, they had won). Sometimes I even got lost myself and had to restart. Thank you.
To the dude that thinks that auctions are no longer allowed, go re-read it. Public auctions are still good. Private auctions are now restricted to your own alliance/corp. This was a major source of scamming. I support the scamming, but this particular scam didn't prey on people, it preyed on a system not working as intended.
CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction.
Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community.
EDIT: for the devs and the guy complaining about how contracts aren't usable and do nothing for lag, how long till plans for Interbus will be more ready for publishing?
good game |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hotgirl933
regarding jita and the no global one its also a lag thing and at the same time CCP like their hubs so they arent i na hurry to remove em
Thats not very customer centric thinking, now is it? I just get annoyed having to scan region for region, using three or four different search methods in order to have a chance to find what I need. The search functionality is totaly broken, so is the display and paging/sorting. Having to scan different regions on top of that makes finding something a nightmare. Did I mention that the search results are inconsitent as well?
Then if I do find something, I have to fly over and am practicaly FORCED to do a buyout if I want any chance of getting the item. Short of camping the station 24H a day. Why you would ask, as I don't live in Jita and with normal auction bids, somone will just top you and you have to fly over again.
And no, I ain't a modules trader...I just like to have good stuff for my CNR, so what kind of gameplay design is this crap? The old escrow system with all its flaws was much better in usability. They just had to make it bot unfriendly, make private escows visible always and implement some decent search options.
But what do I know, I am just a player!
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Quaird
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:39:00 -
[22]
Please add being able to remotely accept a contract in another region. Even if you still have to manually serch each region for an item, you can not accept it so there is a good chance it will be gone by the time you get there (ie wasted trip and frustration all round).
By allowing remote acceptance I can do one trip every few weeks to a particular region instead of one each time I need something (which may be gone by the time I get there anyway).
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:41:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:43:31
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:42:49
Originally by: Moraguth
Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums.
Ok, thats a troll!
Originally by: Moraguth
CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction.
You basicly say, its good that I waste my time! Who are you to decide that is good for me?
Originally by: Moraguth
Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community.
Trolling?
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Miranda Duvall
Gallente
OPM Holdings
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:17:00 -
[24]
Is there any way to filter item exchange contracts by the item wanted instead of offered?
Lets say I have a very cool "Widget II", a very rare item indeed, and I want to see what ppl are offering in exchange, be it billions upon billions of isk, or the equally rare "Flunsk", or a dozen Fleet Issue Ravens...
You get the point.
Isn't it great being a skill collector?
Top 20
My Skills |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
from the blog, thats not what happenening at all. the change is limiting Corporation Limited auctions to members of your alliance. removing the current number one (or at least top 3) contract scam from the general public.
you can still try scamming you alliance mates, good luck with that. and you can still make a public auction for anyone to bid on
That's not what the Blog says:
Quote:
Auctions can no longer be issued to corporations outside your own alliance.
I'm assuming that's to prevent the "Avoid the Tax" scam where the seller is convinced to put an auction up to a corp with a low starting bid and the max bid at what they want the item to sell at, then the corp just bids the minimum and takes it for practically nothing. The easy fix would be to allow auction contracts to be cancelled within the first hour of submitting it.
Personally, I don't see it as a good idea to limit anything to *alliances*, considering how many players aren't in (big) alliances to begin with.
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Treelox
Amarr
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:45:00 -
[26]
WoW looks great, all heading in the right direction.
What about upping the total limit of corp contracts that a corp can have active at once?
60 Corp Contracts is very easy to do for a large industrial corp that does rare item reselling, pre-arranged bulk orders, and BPC sale.
With my current corp contracting at lvl4, and on its way to lvl5. I could max out the total allowed ammout of contracts for the corp, leaving the other 20 guys in corp who need to use corp contracts to conduct corp business with out a leg to stand on.
Or is this just another unintended oversight, with the dev time not realising that 60 concurrent corp contracts isnt enough to do a brisk and proper business with?
p.s. I do love the new changes, and thanks for fixing the corp auction scam, I hated having to explain to poor newbies that they just got robbed.
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Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques |
Treelox
Amarr
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alz Shado
Personally, I don't see it as a good idea to limit anything to *alliances*, considering how many players aren't in (big) alliances to begin with.
you can still do public auctions, you just can do auctions assigned to a corp, unless that corp is in your alliance. At least thats how I read it.
--
Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:11:00 -
[28]
1. Ignore list: finally
2. Start Page:
Make sure its optional. I DO NOT want to have to make one additional useless click on top of the myriad of other useless clicks i have to make.
The system should remember in what state it was when i closed it. Clicking the contract button again should open with the last tab (aviable contracts for me).
3. Sorting:
Make sure it makes sense. Sorting for battleships isnt exactly what people want. Sorting for things like t2 BPOs or officer Smartbombs however ...
It wont be too bad if it works roughly the way the variations tab does, but you are missing a lot of potential.
Ask if you need help with categories and i will make a list for super-groups. ("Officer loot", "shield tank", etc).
4. Freeform contracts: make sure the barriers dont involve even more clicks, or the legitimate users (both of them) will be punished even more.
Realistic suggestions:
1. Kill the damn wizard. Condense 4 steps of issuing a contract into one. Im so damn tired of going back 3 pages because i mispelled the name of the guy im restricting the contract for.
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Treelox
Amarr
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:27:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Treelox on 26/02/2007 23:24:28
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
Realistic suggestions:
1. Kill the damn wizard. Condense 4 steps of issuing a contract into one. Im so damn tired of going back 3 pages because i misspelled the name of the guy im restricting the contract for.
At least do away with Step 2. Allow us, if we wish to escrow multiple items, to CTRL-click multiple items from our/corp hanger and then right click, select "Create Contract", to bundle them all in one contract.
**edited i r no speiler**
--
Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques |
Nadarius Chrome
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: The Blog
Filtering by Category and Group
Woohooooo! No more searching for 20 different types of "Large Armor Repairer".
Originally by: The Blog
Start Page
Optional please. Seriously. Enough clicking already.
Originally by: The Blog
Ignored Issuers list
Woohooooo x 2! Spamz0rs and scammz0rs beware.
Originally by: The Blog
Bug... Err.. Features
Does this include adding the items missing off the item lists? EG Machariel? 
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AceOfSpace
Myth...
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:01:00 -
[31]
Really nice looking changes 
-it's my job to do it- |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Inspiration
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:43:31
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:42:49
Originally by: Moraguth
Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums.
Ok, thats a troll!
Originally by: Moraguth
CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction.
You basicly say, its good that I waste my time! Who are you to decide that is good for me?
Originally by: Moraguth
Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community.
Trolling?
1) not a troll, seriously... some people just keep saying "i want this i want this, the game will die if you don't give me this omg suxorz it's too hard wtf!!111" That's who i was talking to.
2) it's your time, if you consider it a waste, don't put that on me. I don't think it's a waste of time, but i think everybody and their minmatar slave is whining about the same thing. CCP already said they aren't going to do that, and I hope they stick to their guns.
3) seriously, I'm not trolling. Go check out the other threads full of whiners about the same subject, it just won't stop. People who take the time to step back and look at things how they are, how they could be, and how they should be, would not be complaining like this, it just isn't sensible.
Don't make me put one of those retarded disclaimers about stuff being my own opinion, because honestly, unless you're a "representative" everything people say on the boards is their own opinion.
I'm not calling anyone in here names, but I do congratulate the people that I agree with because hey, great minds think alike and all that.
I promise, I'm a good guy, I just have a different opinion than you.
good game |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:13:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 27/02/2007 00:10:46
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Originally by: The Blog
Start Page
Optional please. Seriously. Enough clicking already.
It is optional, thankfully. If you look closely at the screenshot, you can see that the "Start Page" is an additional third tab next to the "My Contracts" and "Available Contracts" tabs that we currently have. You'll only open the interface on the start page if you had that tab selected when you closed it the last time. 
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:15:00 -
[34]
many customers have been lost with contracts.
* region limits - speaks for itself. but i see the necessity
* auctions - have split the shopping mall even further. either/some of these changes plz:
a) buyout always required
b) auctioning as new skill that requires contracting IV or even V
c) 1 day maximum
* freeform - well... it's not just the freshman that can't spot the difference. even people with years on their backs, preequipped with superstition, can fall for these. anyway... apart from my not-seeing the point in freeforms, being able to save templates is a serious fertilizer for scams.
* rigged ships - i take it repackaging will never be an option? plz add a backdoor, something like "[rigged] Vagabond x1" and a multiple-items-like table
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Hauler McTote
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:18:00 -
[35]
Quote:
4. Freeform contracts: make sure the barriers dont involve even more clicks, or the legitimate users (both of them) will be punished even more.
Lol, but thats so true, its sad.
100 man corp I was in, NO-ONE ever admitted to using freeform...Industrialists, re-sellers, shoppers, pew pew ers, all types.
But, yeah, what many of the people above have said, and been saying since Rev came out...Contracts generally blows, it's non intuitive, frustrating, and slow, glad to see they are carrying on the tradition of useless, overly complicated, unneccesary baggage.
The AVERAGE user ie: most everyone, I would suspect does as I do:
Item Exchange to sell.
A slow, boring ass, inneficient search for faction, t2 and weird stuff.
Market for everything else.
I dont see much change here, reckon we will find out, eh?
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Cyan Nuevo
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:35:00 -
[36]
Quote:
At least do away with Step 2. Allow us, if we wish to escrow multiple items, to CTRL-click multiple items from our/corp hanger and then right click, select "Create Contract", to bundle them all in one contract.
Signed signed signed! The sorting possibilities in the contracts window itself suck, please let us use our station hangars to find the stuff first. Even better, allow us to create contracts from inside containers.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Moraguth
1) not a troll, seriously... some people just keep saying "i want this i want this, the game will die if you don't give me this omg suxorz it's too hard wtf!!111" That's who i was talking to.
I stopped ingame sales, OT-TS closed down, NAGA stopped their legendary shop, many more just stopped trading or even left without saying a word on the forums - all because of the new contract system. I think its safe to assume that those who you try to insult know better then you.
The state of contracts can be summarized in one short story:
A 30b+ BPO sold for 8.5b. Location: Lonetrek, auction finished on a thursday evening eve time. It was a 6 days auction. I dont think you need to say more.
The contract system wasnt an improvement, it was a change. Some things are better, many are worse. The sad part is that we are comparing it to escrow (!), the system that we considered to be the worst possible.
Too bad most of you are either too greedy (alts generate income) or too stubborn to realise that a system that favors soulless altcorps, shopping / marketcheck alts and one single mega-hub (besides making people want to use forums ...) is not what eve needs.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:50:00 -
[38]
Quote:
We are fixing a bunch of features in contracts which will make it more usable as well.
Haha. At least you have a sense of humor about forum stuff.
Still regional though eh. Boooo.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:09:00 -
[39]
is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL?
or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:19:00 -
[40]
Nice additions, though I have a concern on one of these changes.
Perhaps I read it wrong, but Item Exchange and Auction filters were being combined into one? Though I can see a use for a filter that does this, in addition to the existing ones, I would still like to be able to filter on the different types. Since the code exists for both types already, and you've coded the combonation it seems, why not just add the new one? :)
-AS |
Cyan Nuevo
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:40:00 -
[41]
Quote:
is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL?
or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
OMFG PROOF THAT THERE ARE MORE DEVS IN BOB!!!!!1111
Seriously, I think it's probably just a joke. A pretty funny one at that, at least for me. 
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Viceroy Bolloxim
Caldari
GalacTECH Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.02.27 03:15:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Viceroy Bolloxim on 27/02/2007 03:14:21
I agree. Currently there is a real pain in that I can scan a region, but even if I see an auction, I have to be present. Its like having ebay, but being only able to bid in the same city they posted the item on ...
flawed is an understatement.
searching across multiple regions to me, seems nothing more than just 'appending' the new search data to the output, seems again rather straightforward.
bollo
Originally by: Riley Craven
Nice try, but your not even close to making contracts usable.
First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time.
Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back.
If you really are serious about reducing lag in jita than you have to give people a reason not to sell in jita.
You may have made casual browsing easier with being able to see an entire group of mods, but you still got along way to go to make contracts truely usable.
wikipedia: Gunboat diplomacy refers to the pursuit of foreign policy objectives with the aid of conspicuous displays of military powerùimplying or constituting a direct threat of warfare... |
TempaT
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 04:51:00 -
[43]
Yes keeping on the same lines as eBay it does make sense.
I mean the whole escrow system has back pedaled in a way. ok its nice and user friendly in the sense those who wish to search for a specific item can do so now but searching threw how many regions is beginning to take its toll on the Eve community. Its not the lazy factor its just the whole time issue. Searching threw every region and not just the main Hubs would take a considerable amount of time.
I for one would like to see this happen as would the majority.
TempaT
|
Lienzo
Amanuensis
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 06:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Lienzo on 27/02/2007 06:40:24
Hmm. Some of these are good changes. I like the NPE/visibility changes best.
However, I would like to use the Freeform contracts as public contracts. If the fear of spam is overwhelming, just limit the range. Just one system or one station is adequate. 4990 systems are not hubs afterall and it's always nice for business to occur there.
The ability to do very narrow advertisement is pretty essential to many businesses. Not everyone wants to play whack-a-mole with npcs, and making posts on EVE-O is both a little too broadly aimed, and too ephemeral in terms of longevity.
Tags and hooks linking to contracts is the other big step needed.
An alternative kit of NPE & Networking tools would ease the need of course.
"I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar." |
Pinky Denmark
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 07:30:00 -
[45]
Excellent work - nothing else to say...
A question though:
What kind of other contracts could we possible need?
(Except for perhaps a more specific Loan Contract with deposits and scamproof)
Don't need all the details but a few solid clues perhaps?
|
Arushia
Nova Labs
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 07:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
A 30b+ BPO sold for 8.5b. Location: Lonetrek, auction finished on a thursday evening eve time. It was a 6 days auction. I dont think you need to say more.
Umm. "Your own fault for setting the starting bid too damn low."
On another topic: Please let us accept contracts and bid on auctions in other regions. What's the point of viewing another region's contracts without being able to do anything to them?
|
Chruker
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 07:51:00 -
[47]
This game NEED something that allow galaxy wide trading. The sell/buy/trade forums doesn't cut it. Mostly because of crappy search functions, but also the need to bump and the fact that the forum is hardly viewable ingame.
-----
CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. |
Drizzet
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 08:11:00 -
[48]
Ok Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but here goes nothing if its the wrong place please move it to the right one.
For starters great game I have 4 accounts and have never found another game like this. I have recently gotten back to doing level 4 missions in Saila along with a few of my friends, we are having an issue. The system we run missions(saila)in is lagging worse than jita which anyone that has played eve knows is amazing. If we were just shoping or running courier missions this would not be to big a deal but we are running combat level 4 missions with a 35 second delay and anyone that has tryed to solo level 4 worlds colide knows this is already a hard mission without lag. My question is is there any plan or estimated time when this is going to be fixed its realy killing the game for me and a few of my friends?
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babylonstew
Caldari
Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 08:14:00 -
[49]
good start to the changes
now, when can we contract ships with loaded guns/launchers?
when can we contract damadged goods?
when can we contract ships with rigs?
and also, if we cant do any of the above, ffs, at least give an option window that says item X is damaged and cannot be contracted, would you like to remove it
instead of the crap we have now and no feckin clue which item out of 70 is the one to drop.
thats so damn anoying it aint funny
------
*snip* please keep sigs EVE-related. Contact [email protected] if you have any further questions - Karass Sayfo
Originally by: High Sierra
note to self - don't ever provide ANYONE with quoteable material EVER AGAIN.
|
Dave White
Beagle Corp
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 09:41:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dave White on 27/02/2007 09:43:01
NOL 1 jump away? Coincidence? I think not!
On a more serious note, nice and I'm looking forward to it.
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Gneiss Breaker
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 10:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hauler McTote
The AVERAGE user ie: most everyone, I would suspect does as I do:
Item Exchange to sell.
A slow, boring ass, inneficient search for faction, t2 and weird stuff.
Market for everything else.
I dont see much change here, reckon we will find out, eh?
Reckon that's true. Just wish the "Item exchange to sell" bit had about 47 less clicks in it.
|
Bado Sten
Minmatar
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 10:20:00 -
[52]
I use the contracts a lot, and look very much forward to this. Thanks!
I have one suggestiong, though;
For corp contracts, could you please put some more info int the corporation journal? Right now the only text entry is "prize for accepting a contract". This happens for both when I accept a contract for the corp, but also when someone accept our contracts.
With no more information than this, any director or accountant in the corp can not see what is going on. He can only see that ISK left or entered the corp account, but not why.
Would it not be possible to have both corp contracts and personal contracts add an entry that looks something like "Contract accepted by/from character/corporation : text of description field".
That would make the journal more informative to those who need to know the financial status of the corporation. |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 10:27:00 -
[53]
NOL is where that 'big event' happened?
Wow this dev blog is the best ever.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Zzazzt
Gallente
Millennium
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 10:30:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Zzazzt on 27/02/2007 10:27:04
Quote:
You can see at a glance how your contract status is at any one time. This will prove quite useful for finding those elusive private contracts. :-$
'Bout bloody time as well.
____________________________________________
|
Mar'Dur Taren
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 11:00:00 -
[55]
Just a comment on the use of links in a page that will be viewed in the IGB. I was reading this while doing some exploration, waiting for a probes scan. I clicked on the links supplied thinking "If a Dev put it here it will be IGB compatible". After all, I was reading it in the IGB.
I lost my probes, my drone, the time I had spent setting up and crashed my entire system for a really bad joke.
You must develop a system to visually differentiate links to IGB compatible sites from those that are not. Either that or don't use such links in a IGB site. There is no excuss for the kind of crash I experienced.
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Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 12:14:00 -
[56]
These changes mostly look good, I agree with the people complaining about both regionalisation and contract limits though.
When the idea first came out I decided I would wait and try it. I waited, I tried it - it sucks.
When I want something I search my local region, Jita's region and Rens' region. I imagine 90% of other people are doing the same. As a result to sell anything big I have to take it The Forge or Heimatar as I want people to see it.
Just look at the market forum - if anything it is more busy now post-contracts than it was before.
The contract limit is a problem, most of my business involves lots of items in a few contracts so I am surviving - but I can see myself edging closer to the limit all the time.
The Auctions system is very primitive, although I think it is going in the right direction and I use it a fair amount - it needs:
o End date and time displayed
o Sniper rule option
o Ebay-esq automatic bid system (i.e. I say 'I will put in a max of 30 mill' I will then automatically outbid anyone else up to 30 mill)
Blueprint Research Service Available
See thread for details.
|
BobbyRaider
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 12:14:00 -
[57]
Edited by: BobbyRaider on 27/02/2007 12:21:15
Finally !!!!! Contracts gets some love ...
But is it enough ??
I've made some suggestions before, on Oveur's
devblog comments Linkage (first post near middle of page)
For sake of brevity (read "to save space") I'm not gonna enumerate all the reasons in detail all over again ... 
I love the screenies :) But yes, it can get better ...
Really needed:
1. Remote bidding (ffs, yes it is needed!!!111)
2. Sorting !!!!11111oneoneoneeleven (the numbers go on ...)
3. Searching in groups, yes, but other than the ones
... suggested, it's just a matter of making a few more
... tables, so wth, you can do it, mate (check Argenton
... Sayvers' post above, for suggestions)
4. And yes, a few less clicks would be appreciated, single
... page forms are so much easier to use and to avoid errors
5. Rigs getting seen on ships, or details of fitted ships
... showing modules and rigs fitted on it
Suggestions:
6. Can GTCs be made into in-game items ? Wouldn't be too
... hard to implement imo, just need an option to convert to
... item on the webpage, and could be sold in-game by normal
... contracts. It would be huge, imo
7. Can there be a seperate forum channel for GTCs ? As it
... is the Sell Orders forum is swamped, and it takes only
... a few hours for stuff to move to page 5-10 ... GTCs
... take up a lot of that space, and moving them to another
... channel would be better for all parties involved ...
Otherwise, rock on :) <-- this tells you how old I am
Btw, what the heck happened to the mini freighter ??? 
Bobby
edit: corrections ...
|
Uinen
Amarr
Backup Squad
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 12:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: blog
We will not see any big new features in the system or a change in the fundamental way it works.
So things that f**** ppl everyday will stay. No need to improve global searching/bidding/usage.
Originally by: blog
What we will have, however, are some much needed improvements to the interface and usability (And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4).
Give us global contracts / global item searching - those are IMPORTANT and NEEDED changes.
I will always miss old escrow. It was like big supermarket where im looking at everything whats avaible and i can buy whatever i want to if i want to. In contracts system i have to know what exactly i want to buy and search for it, mainly in Jita region. Gone are days where i was looking bored at escrow list whats new there... that was fun, CCP killed it :(
|
Adderon San
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 12:44:00 -
[59]
Especially because the amount of stuff actually on the contract list in any one region is relatively small, a global view, not limited by region, is sorely needed.
The more advanced search / filter functionality should take care of the info overload once useage picks up.
I know this might be a long way off, but once you've got your filtered list a "show on starmap" button that colors the stars which have a contract in your filtered list and show available contract info on the tool tip for each system would be ace.... That could be a biggy though, so I wont hold my breath :)
|
Lore Varan
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 13:01:00 -
[60]
Computing lesson number 1.
Since the very dawn of computing
Computers have had one very important thing in common.
Computers are very good at repeating repetitive tasks with near perfect accuracy.
Thereby freeing there users from time consuming tasks.
It is often overlooked these days or rather taken for granted, but it is this attribute more than any other that has led to the phenominal growth and adoption of computers in all aspect of both business and personal life in the western world.
All "Killer apps" have this attribute in common.
The word processor: "Enables documents to be printed as many times as you like at the press of a button" , no more repeated typeing the same letter over and over again on a manual typewritter.
The spread sheet: "Enables the same calculation to be performed on a large number of inputs with the minimum of effort", good bye huge accounts departments.
The Database: "Enables large ammounts of data to be stored and just as importantly enables the same data processing task to be be applied to each record in the database again and again without the need for user intervention on each record".
CAD-CAM packages: "Enables the repeated application of physical calculation to be performed on datasets representing physical objects".
Image processing software: "Enables the same graphical function to be applied over a whole image without requiring the user to calculate the colour of each pixel"
In fact it is probably true that every succesful software application of the late 20th and early 21st century has had this particular attribute in common , even if sometimes you have to look quite deeply for it.
Why put this is a thread about contracting?
Because contracting with its current restrictions does not obey this LAW of computing.
It will never be the killer app you want it to be if you inflict upon its users the neccessity to perform labourious repetitive tasks.
Repetive tasks are the domain of the computer , the software must perform these functions not the user.
I am of course talking about multi-region searches.
Currently to search for a rare item e.g. chelm's cap recharger requires the user to do a widespread search.
This is currently 5 clicks and a 10 second wait per region.
To search Empire thats 80 clicks and a lot of waiting around.
If I now want to look for Draclira's cap recharger as well I have to do it all over again.
160 clicks and loosing the will to live.
Now if I actually find the item I am looking for I have to fly upto 30 jumps maybe? to place a bid.
That's an entire hour at best of my precious eve-time wasted as I will probably have to repeat this long journey again if I am outbid.
This is a pain in the neck and to tell you the truth I find myself not being able to be bothered with it anymore. I search my local region and I search the forge, after that if someone has put it up in a different region I probably wont spot it. This is probably why Jita is such a lag fest these days as most traders now see it as the only place to do business if you want to reach a large customer base.
I cant understand why you want to inflict such pain on the player base, I cant understand it.
Please explain to me the logic behind such restrictions.
Some of the new cosmetic features do look nice and will be welcome I'm sure, but saying new contract types will blow our socks off is highly optimistic on your part when contracting has such a deeply flawed foundation.
|
Cyclops43
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 13:28:00 -
[61]
This is all nice enough, but I compare it to fixing superficially how a house looks while it is collapsing.
The contracts system is, and will remain so, pretty close to useless as it is because of no real search options (and this is not fixed by your changes)!
For proof of this, I refer to all the postings on the E-O market forum that points to specific auctions in the contract system. This in itself shows that the system is broken.
Unless/until you address the two most important usability impairments, it will remain so:
1. EVE wide searches
2. Not having to be in the same friggin' region as an auction until it is finished
You think that having these restrictions will 'encourage' a regionalised market, but they don't. They encourage an 'all-trade-in-Jita' market.
As for your group filtering, it could be usable, but you need to add some 'meta-groups' like:
1. Faction ships
2. Faction equipment
3. Officer equipment
4. Ship BPO's
5. Equipment BPO's
6. Ship BPC's
7. Equipment BPC's
8. etc.
The current system is not browsable (only way you can is by looking at EVERYTHING, limited by value), and your improvements, though welcome, doesn't make it much better.
And for f...'s sake, remove the 1.000.000 ISK lower limit in auctions. You've abolutely destroyed the market for small-value BPC's.
|
Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 16:18:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 27/02/2007 16:18:21
Originally by: Arushia
Umm. "Your own fault for setting the starting bid too damn low."
Do you think im stupid?
1. I (and everyone else) have alts to bid on my own auctions if i dont like the price.
2. Why would i ever use the ingame auction system?
I was trying to buy it. I had the end time down to 15 minutes, but someone else had it down to the second, and got it. Was a friend, so not that bad. We are both laughing about the moronic seller who thought it would be a good idea to use an useless ingame feature. Thanks for your money.
The contract system does a poor job connecting buyer and seller. There were over a dozen people willing to offer more then 25b on this blueprint.
Yet noone bid because he didnt know about that contract. Or didnt know about the end time (it doesnt display), or just couldnt be bothered to travel to lonetrek. When 20b Free ISK (claim the BPO at 8.5b, link it in BPO channel once, sell it for 28b within 30minutes) is not enticing enough, what is?
By the way, you could sell damaged / fitted stuff with escrow ... and rigged, if we had rigs back then. Too bad you nerfed that as well. Start to adress the underlining problems with your interface first.
|
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:03:00 -
[63]
If they are going to keep the region limit then either:
1a. Just allow all items including bpos and bpcs to be sold on the market (why have a contract system for it if it adds nothing over the current market other then a headache and a lot of waisted gametime whilst you allready have a system in place which accomplishes exactly the same but a lot faster and easier).
or
1b. Globalize specialized queries (groups, categories and single items), make view all region bound. Or divide Global into sections (Empire, Low-sec, 0.0).
or
1c Replace the current contract system with the old escrow system and add in filtering on top of the old sorting capability.
or
1d At the very least allow global bidding/buying, plus tweak the interface into being as simple and usefull as the old escrow system without the lag of that old system.
The current system is a Jita traffic driver, major ISK deflator and alt stimulator and above all a giant step down from what escrow was (just looking at Item exchange and Auctions).
-----------------------------------------------
The BIG Lottery |
Jacqueline Skouris
Eth3real
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:16:00 -
[64]
What is the point of the contract system other than auctions, when you can't view all contracts? If you want to force people to view by specific item or item group by region, why not just force people to use the market?!
-
Major Jacqueline Skouris of the Eth3real Navy.
Serenity is worth fighting for! |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:27:00 -
[65]
Apparently people have forgotten or never experienced the lagfest that was escrow. Yes, escrow displayed all of the escrow contracts in EVE, up to a point. It only displayed the 500 most recent contracts, so all you ever saw was the stuff that escrow campers were humping in Jita, Rens, and if you were lucky Oursalaert. If you wanted to look at what was available in your region you had to look at only your region. Wanted to see a neighboring region, you had to make a trip. If you wanted to see anything that wasn't in a hub, guess what, you had to make a trip. Now at least you can look to see if what you want is where you want it before you make the trip. Now, I don't have to see all the crap in The Forge, if I don't want to.
Those of you who want something more like e-bay need to be more specific. Similar categorization would be an improvement. The globality of e-bay would be a huge resource sink for EVE. Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
/rant off
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Artmedis Valben
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 -
[66]
Not making corp contract skill/role work as intended yet :)
Corporate pool of 500 contracts with individual corporation contractors having their seperate max pool based on skill level.
As is the corporate contracting skill doesn't work as everyone shares a pool of 10-60 contracts and skill level only allows you to issue new contracts if the current number of outstanding corp contracts is below your max allowed according to your skill level irrespective of which corp contractor issued the contract.
Any word on if or when this will be fixed?
___________________________________________
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of almost all seeded BPOs.
Lobster of Babel currently holds 661 of the 729 Tech 1 BPOs seeded. 7 ships and Capital are missing. |
Elrinarie
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Elrinarie on 27/02/2007 17:34:46
on the other hand... changes looks good, and more so, docking a titan sounds like a good move (even if it isn't realistic.)
oh and yeah I caught the SS was a delve/bob space thing. hopefully it is coincedence
Creator of another Mining Calculator |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 17:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that.
-----------------------------------------------
The BIG Lottery |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 19:48:00 -
[69]
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that.
With out a doubt, but that's a manual intervention. How many times do you suppose it will break because of an update to the database? Multiply the amount of validation, and fixing for every one of those pre-cached queries.
The point is that the Contracts system as it is, can't help but be less of a load on the EVE database, than a global search functionality.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Bado Sten
Minmatar
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 20:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jacqueline Skouris
What is the point of the contract system other than auctions, when you can't view all contracts? If you want to force people to view by specific item or item group by region, why not just force people to use the market?!
What is the point of contracts?
For some of us it is to issue or accept contracts between corporations. I run an industrial corporation that accept BPO's in contracts, and use contracts to sell those researched BPO's (or bulk manufactured ammo or drones) back to another corporation or individual.
For us the contracts are great, but we need more detailed info in the corp. journal.
Contracts is not only a replacement for the old Escrow system. It is a great tool for some corps. It could certainly be improved, but it's not all e-bay
--
Vivian: You go too far, Marlowe.
Marlowe: Those are harsh words to throw at a man,
especially when he's walking out of your bedroom. |
Inspiration
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 20:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that.
With out a doubt, but that's a manual intervention. How many times do you suppose it will break because of an update to the database? Multiply the amount of validation, and fixing for every one of those pre-cached queries.
The point is that the Contracts system as it is, can't help but be less of a load on the EVE database, than a global search functionality.
There is no need for constant DB querying at all, they just have to alias all items on contract to a seperate contract server and make a note of this in the main database.
From this point on all interaction with the contract system takes place away from the main database and game nodes. At the same time this strikes down any obstacle to go for a EVE wide contract system. This would scale up well beyond anything EVE can be put trough given the number of players and the number on concurrent contracts players can handle.
It is in fact so stupidly simple, I can't understand all the peeps that say, LAG this, LAG that, can't be done. It's freaking software design lesson 101. And you as a player wouldn't notice a thing except that is works and is responsive!
|
Derran
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 21:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Inspiration
"And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4"
You CAN'T be serious....
This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR!
People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions.
Um, people did this on the old escrow system too so what difference does it make? I know I sure as hell wasn't going to fly all the way over to BoB space, for example, when I saw something on escrow there. I'd be killed trying to go there anyway since they do NBSI. And someone newish to the game wouldn't know anything about that kind of stuff either.
|
0raven0
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 -
[73]
Quote:
ncluding (hopefully) new contract types which will blow your socks off (if that's the sort of thing you're in to).
WTB: T2 Sock Hardeners.
------
|
Third Down
Hard Rock Cafe
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo
Quote:
is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL?
or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
OMFG PROOF THAT THERE ARE MORE DEVS IN BOB!!!!!1111
Seriously, I think it's probably just a joke. A pretty funny one at that, at least for me.
Maybe it's a joke, maybe it's a revealing gaffe. But of all people, CCP employees don't get to make that joke, not in the current atmosphere.
This should be referred to Arkanor, who should dish out the slappings.
|
Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 21:52:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Code Monkey
We're also grouping Auction and Item Exchange together as a filtering parameter to further ease the browsing experience.
Noooooo! I don't want no stinking auctions...  When I search for item exchanges, I only want item exchanges!
Originally by: Code Monkey
There have been a lot of requests for a more generic item search than having to search by a specific item-type which is the only criteria available today.
A move in the right direction, but still a far cry from a real search engine. How do I search for all Corpum items, whatever their type?
Also, if I need blueprints, will it show only blueprints? And if I am searching for ships, will it show me 1,674,231 blueprints as well? I would hate to ignore blueprint sellers, since they probably have other things to sell.
Will the sorting of multi-page results be fixed? I.e. if sorting by acending ISK, the results on page 1 should be the lowest, then page 2 the next highest, and so on?
-
Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Ilor Prophet
|
Posted - 2007.02.27 21:55:00 -
[76]
Honestly I don't have a problem with the region-by-region thing, but what might be interesting is to allow an empire-by-empire listing of all contracts.
For instance, allow all contracts in Caldari space (i.e. Lonetrek, The Citadel, and The Forge) to be listed together. This would give people a little bit more freedom in where they want to post stuff, as well as making things interesting once factional warfare starts.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:08:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Inspiration on 27/02/2007 22:06:32
Originally by: Derran
Originally by: Inspiration
"And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4"
You CAN'T be serious....
This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR!
People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions.
Um, people did this on the old escrow system too so what difference does it make? I know I sure as hell wasn't going to fly all the way over to BoB space, for example, when I saw something on escrow there. I'd be killed trying to go there anyway since they do NBSI. And someone newish to the game wouldn't know anything about that kind of stuff either.
The difference is that back then you could claim remotely and fresh escrows from all over the universe were visible to all. Currently with auction contracts its basicly impossible to participate (bid) if you are not in or very close to The Forge.
As for not taking things out of BOB space, you could create REMOTELY a courier job, so that somone from BOB would bring it to empire for you.....for a fee! Thats no longer an option either for most of us!
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:21:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 27/02/2007 22:18:55
Originally by: Inspiration
As for not taking things out of BOB space, you could create REMOTELY a courier job, so that somone from BOB would bring it to empire for you.....for a fee! Thats no longer an option either for most of us!
I create courier jobs regularly from my Assets window, and sometimes they both start and end in different regions. What's the problem there?
And I do agree on the claiming cross-region functionality.
EDIT: You should allow far more courier missions tbh. Like 10 per Contracts levels. Courier missions are win-win for everyone, since people do actually make a living out of moving stuff.
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Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:31:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Inspiration on 27/02/2007 22:30:09
Originally by: Andargor theWise
I create courier jobs regularly from my Assets window, and sometimes they both start and end in different regions. What's the problem there?
Sorry I did not knew that, here I just made an assumtion. Never tried it beyond my region because of that assumtion. Having to fly over myself to claim something it is not something I often need anyway!
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John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:34:00 -
[80]
How come you (the Developer) are in BoB space? Check the first picture and look at the location of the Assualt Launchers 
Make a Difference
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: John McCreedy
How come you (the Developer) are in BoB space? Check the first picture and look at the location of the Assualt Launchers
OMG Dev Haxx0r!!
NOL FTW!!11one
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Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 04:27:00 -
[82]
Can we please search multiple reagions at once? Maybe set a limit to it or just get away with region limits, or how about regions close to you? That would be hot.
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Hillesumos
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.02.28 09:39:00 -
[83]
I really would appreciate if we could get some more contracts slots since the current number is just too low for any serious specialised contractor.
I make courier contract and frankly i can create more than the current limit of courier contract available.
I don't mind having to train a high level skill to get some more but I just need more slots thanks.
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Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 10:48:00 -
[84]
hey hey
nice changes. just missed 1 i think.
item exchange : BPC for BPC BPC trades always come up with the BPO when searced for item. id like some Drake BPC's but i cant set a wtb or an item exchange for them :(
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Bermag
Point-Zero
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 11:36:00 -
[85]
Most needed changes:
1) You must be able to bid on a contract in any region.
2) Global search is needed, however I understand the impact this might have with a large result set. But maybe make it only possible to do a global search when searching for a specific item.
3) Add a sub type category, T1, T2, Faction, Officer, faction and officer, all. For example let sya you want to search for all faction XL Shield Boosters. Then you could choose item type XL Shield Boosters and subcategory Faction.
4) Being able to search for only BPO or BPCs (or both).
5) Increase the base number of contracts you can setup
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:14:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
The contract system does a poor job connecting buyer and seller. There were over a dozen people willing to offer more then 25b on this blueprint.
Yet noone bid because he didnt know about that contract. Or didnt know about the end time (it doesnt display), or just couldnt be bothered to travel to lonetrek. When 20b Free ISK (claim the BPO at 8.5b, link it in BPO channel once, sell it for 28b within 30minutes) is not enticing enough, what is?
Excuse me, but that is a rather stupid argument.
- everyone even halfway serious in trading has an alt in jita. Travelling time to lonetrek: 5 minutes.
- "not bidding on it because there was no end time"...please. If you are willing to pay 25 bil for something nothing stops you from bidding as much on it. You will get 100% back as soon as you are overbid. You do not need to know on the second when the contract has finished for that. Where is the problem?
Now, not knowing about the contract...thats something else. But nothing is stopping people from getting it to jita where it would have gotten far more attention. Now, this is definately monopolizing jita as trade hub even more, but I personally do not see much of a problem there. Since the removal of belts I haven't encountered any serious lag there and it also gives people the option to trade effeciently with high-quality goods by buying them in the border regions cheaply and transporting them to jita for resale.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.28 16:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Aramendel
...
Exactly. You say the same things i said. The contract system is a poor way at connecting buyers and sellers, it requires alts, it forces everyone to list anything of importance in Jita. On top of that, it charges you tax for that. So why did the sell orders forum explode with traffic again?
Ironically, Privateers may be the largest factor why other systems still have trade in them ... a lot of the alliance grunts are too afraid of them to come to Jita.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:15:00 -
[88]
Why choose to sell your stuff in Jita, when The Forge region has so many other systems that are also shown by the market & contracts. I guess the only reason would be not to have to travel.
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CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. |
Vadoc Trax
Caldari
RABBLE-RABBLE
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:51:00 -
[89]
The thing I want the most is the ability to ignore certain items on Contract. There are far too many contracts selling BPC's that I just want to ignore. If there are 20 pages of contracts, 19 of those will be BPC's.
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#1. Pillage, THEN burn.
#8. Mockery and derision have their place. Usually, it's on the far side of the airlock. |
Vadoc Trax
Caldari
RABBLE-RABBLE
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:51:00 -
[90]
The thing I want the most is the ability to ignore certain items on Contract. There are far too many contracts selling BPC's that I just want to ignore. If there are 20 pages of contracts, 19 of those will be BPC's.
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#1. Pillage, THEN burn.
#8. Mockery and derision have their place. Usually, it's on the far side of the airlock. |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:36:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Kerfira on 28/02/2007 22:36:04
Originally by: Chruker
Why choose to sell your stuff in Jita, when The Forge region has so many other systems that are also shown by the market & contracts. I guess the only reason would be not to have to travel.
If you want to sell stuff, you go where the buyers are. If you try to sell elsewhere, even if the buyer can see it, he'll still buy the item where he is (Jita) if similarly priced. The only way you can get him to move to get your item is to sell it cheaper.
THAT is why people are not using the rest of The Forge.
Unless the region limitation on searches and auction bids are removed, Jita will forever be the trade center it is now (which is not necessarily a bad thing IMHO since lag is not too bad anymore).
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Drakos Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.01 00:37:00 -
[92]
very nice changes, yet i still think CCP should add page numbers for lets say regions with a lot of contracts, that way you'll have a rough estimate as to how many contracts your search yielded without having to press the 'next' button without a clue as to where it will end.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.01 08:08:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
Exactly. You say the same things i said. The contract system is a poor way at connecting buyers and sellers, it requires alts, it forces everyone to list anything of importance in Jita. On top of that, it charges you tax for that. So why did the sell orders forum explode with traffic again?
Don't see the problem with it requiring alts. Now a contract trader has to specialize for a certain region which is IMO a good thing.
Forces anything to be sold in jita - yes, but (as said) I hostely do not see the problem there. The lag isn't that bad anymore. In fact it's IMO more of an advantage since you do not have to collect all stuff from every corner of the universe.
Tax - 1% and reduceable by skills... OHNOES!!! The sky is falling! Fact is I see pretty much everything but high profile 1 bil+ items sold for less on the sell forums than they would get in jita even with the tax deducted.
I wouldn't try to sell a 5 bil+ t2 BPO with an ingame auction, but that does not mean the system is broken.
Where the new system sucks is for corps which used escrow to sell their products en masse. But I would fix that rather by using the contract system to allow corps to make their own shops.
The contracts would be "ebay" and the corp shops "amazon", "bestbuy", etc.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.03.01 14:12:00 -
[94]
Originally by: DrAtomic
If they are going to keep the region limit then either:
1a. Just allow all items including bpos and bpcs to be sold on the market (why have a contract system for it if it adds nothing over the current market other then a headache and a lot of waisted gametime whilst you allready have a system in place which accomplishes exactly the same but a lot faster and easier).
or
1b. Globalize specialized queries (groups, categories and single items), make view all region bound. Or divide Global into sections (Empire, Low-sec, 0.0).
or
1c Replace the current contract system with the old escrow system and add in filtering on top of the old sorting capability.
or
1d At the very least allow global bidding/buying, plus tweak the interface into being as simple and usefull as the old escrow system without the lag of that old system.
The current system is a Jita traffic driver, major ISK deflator and alt stimulator and above all a giant step down from what escrow was (just looking at Item exchange and Auctions).
So I had a wee bit of a discussion with a corpmate of mine about the item exchange and auction system, he changed my view slightly.
The item exchange system is good on itself for true item exchanges (i give you ship you give me xxx minerals and xxx isk and one item deluxe).
However... all items should get market entries. This will allow use of the item exchange system for well item exchanges instead of trades. The issue here is that CCP encourages trade through a system that wasnt originally intended as such (escrow) and that it's successor was built with pure item exchanges in mind (but still allows the trades). It really doesn't make any sense at all that not all items in the game have market entries.
Add BPC market to the game. Removing the need to contract them through item exchanges.
Still leaves the point of Auctions. They work but are limited in usefullness due to the regional view and regional bid options. Changing this (with group based limitations) would make it a good system but most likely skyrocket it's usage because of it being the only global item trade option.
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The BIG Lottery |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 14:40:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Vasiliyan on 01/03/2007 14:38:35
Originally by: DrAtomic
The item exchange system is good on itself for true item exchanges (i give you ship you give me xxx minerals and xxx isk and one item deluxe).
Originally by: DrAtomic
However... all items should get market entries. This will allow use of the item exchange system for well item exchanges instead of trades. The issue here is that CCP encourages trade through a system that wasnt originally intended as such (escrow) and that it's successor was built with pure item exchanges in mind (but still allows the trades). It really doesn't make any sense at all that not all items in the game have market entries.
QFT yes please. At the VERY LEAST faction ammo should be on the market; preferably lots of other faction items whose price is low should also be added to the market.
Originally by: DrAtomic
Add BPC market to the game. Removing the need to contract them through item exchanges.
Strongly agree. Contracts has badly damaged the BPC market because it's prohibitively expensive to put up a large inventory for a long time and see what sells; the deposit requirements mean you want to be pretty sure that something is going to sell before you put it up.
And while I'm at it, the restriction on number of contracts should be per contract type; at the moment people aren't willing to do anything interesting and experimental because they're saving their precious slots for auctions and item exchanges. So Courier and Loan go unused.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.03.01 16:03:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
So Courier and Loan go unused.
Actually I tried a Loan contract... This is how it works:
1. You enter loan amount and make out contract to the person you are loaning to.
2. Person accepts loan and receives the money.
3. The loan expires and nothing happens.
4. You've just got yourself a nice record of being scammed or could even go as far as saying that you've scammed yourself and that the system gives you a nice notification about it.
Brilliant stuff... 
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The BIG Lottery |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:29:00 -
[97]
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=31434
Any developer doing contract systems really should read this Darkfall thread. (EvE is cited). Soft contract system would be REALLY nice for lone-wolf mercs!
RR.
"I'm mostly a miner, but in your case, I'll make an exception... F1, F2, F3..."
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Venture Research and Resources
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