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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.02.27 13:28:00 -
[61]
This is all nice enough, but I compare it to fixing superficially how a house looks while it is collapsing.
The contracts system is, and will remain so, pretty close to useless as it is because of no real search options (and this is not fixed by your changes)! For proof of this, I refer to all the postings on the E-O market forum that points to specific auctions in the contract system. This in itself shows that the system is broken.
Unless/until you address the two most important usability impairments, it will remain so: 1. EVE wide searches 2. Not having to be in the same friggin' region as an auction until it is finished
You think that having these restrictions will 'encourage' a regionalised market, but they don't. They encourage an 'all-trade-in-Jita' market.
As for your group filtering, it could be usable, but you need to add some 'meta-groups' like: 1. Faction ships 2. Faction equipment 3. Officer equipment 4. Ship BPO's 5. Equipment BPO's 6. Ship BPC's 7. Equipment BPC's 8. etc. The current system is not browsable (only way you can is by looking at EVERYTHING, limited by value), and your improvements, though welcome, doesn't make it much better.
And for f...'s sake, remove the 1.000.000 ISK lower limit in auctions. You've abolutely destroyed the market for small-value BPC's.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:18:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 27/02/2007 16:18:21
Originally by: Arushia
Umm. "Your own fault for setting the starting bid too damn low."
Do you think im stupid? 1. I (and everyone else) have alts to bid on my own auctions if i dont like the price. 2. Why would i ever use the ingame auction system?
I was trying to buy it. I had the end time down to 15 minutes, but someone else had it down to the second, and got it. Was a friend, so not that bad. We are both laughing about the moronic seller who thought it would be a good idea to use an useless ingame feature. Thanks for your money.
The contract system does a poor job connecting buyer and seller. There were over a dozen people willing to offer more then 25b on this blueprint. Yet noone bid because he didnt know about that contract. Or didnt know about the end time (it doesnt display), or just couldnt be bothered to travel to lonetrek. When 20b Free ISK (claim the BPO at 8.5b, link it in BPO channel once, sell it for 28b within 30minutes) is not enticing enough, what is?
By the way, you could sell damaged / fitted stuff with escrow ... and rigged, if we had rigs back then. Too bad you nerfed that as well. Start to adress the underlining problems with your interface first.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:03:00 -
[63]
If they are going to keep the region limit then either:
1a. Just allow all items including bpos and bpcs to be sold on the market (why have a contract system for it if it adds nothing over the current market other then a headache and a lot of waisted gametime whilst you allready have a system in place which accomplishes exactly the same but a lot faster and easier).
or
1b. Globalize specialized queries (groups, categories and single items), make view all region bound. Or divide Global into sections (Empire, Low-sec, 0.0).
or
1c Replace the current contract system with the old escrow system and add in filtering on top of the old sorting capability.
or
1d At the very least allow global bidding/buying, plus tweak the interface into being as simple and usefull as the old escrow system without the lag of that old system.
The current system is a Jita traffic driver, major ISK deflator and alt stimulator and above all a giant step down from what escrow was (just looking at Item exchange and Auctions). ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
Jacqueline Skouris
Eth3real
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:16:00 -
[64]
What is the point of the contract system other than auctions, when you can't view all contracts? If you want to force people to view by specific item or item group by region, why not just force people to use the market?! - Major Jacqueline Skouris of the Eth3real Navy.
Serenity is worth fighting for! |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:27:00 -
[65]
Apparently people have forgotten or never experienced the lagfest that was escrow. Yes, escrow displayed all of the escrow contracts in EVE, up to a point. It only displayed the 500 most recent contracts, so all you ever saw was the stuff that escrow campers were humping in Jita, Rens, and if you were lucky Oursalaert. If you wanted to look at what was available in your region you had to look at only your region. Wanted to see a neighboring region, you had to make a trip. If you wanted to see anything that wasn't in a hub, guess what, you had to make a trip. Now at least you can look to see if what you want is where you want it before you make the trip. Now, I don't have to see all the crap in The Forge, if I don't want to. Those of you who want something more like e-bay need to be more specific. Similar categorization would be an improvement. The globality of e-bay would be a huge resource sink for EVE. Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
/rant off
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Artmedis Valben
Gallente Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 -
[66]
Not making corp contract skill/role work as intended yet :) Corporate pool of 500 contracts with individual corporation contractors having their seperate max pool based on skill level. As is the corporate contracting skill doesn't work as everyone shares a pool of 10-60 contracts and skill level only allows you to issue new contracts if the current number of outstanding corp contracts is below your max allowed according to your skill level irrespective of which corp contractor issued the contract.
Any word on if or when this will be fixed?
___________________________________________ Selling PERFECT PRINTS of almost all seeded BPOs. Lobster of Babel currently holds 661 of the 729 Tech 1 BPOs seeded. 7 ships and Capital are missing. |
Elrinarie
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Elrinarie on 27/02/2007 17:34:46 on the other hand... changes looks good, and more so, docking a titan sounds like a good move (even if it isn't realistic.)
oh and yeah I caught the SS was a delve/bob space thing. hopefully it is coincedence
Creator of another Mining Calculator |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Pang Grohl Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.27 19:48:00 -
[69]
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: Pang Grohl Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that.
With out a doubt, but that's a manual intervention. How many times do you suppose it will break because of an update to the database? Multiply the amount of validation, and fixing for every one of those pre-cached queries.
The point is that the Contracts system as it is, can't help but be less of a load on the EVE database, than a global search functionality.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Bado Sten
Minmatar Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jacqueline Skouris What is the point of the contract system other than auctions, when you can't view all contracts? If you want to force people to view by specific item or item group by region, why not just force people to use the market?!
What is the point of contracts?
For some of us it is to issue or accept contracts between corporations. I run an industrial corporation that accept BPO's in contracts, and use contracts to sell those researched BPO's (or bulk manufactured ammo or drones) back to another corporation or individual.
For us the contracts are great, but we need more detailed info in the corp. journal.
Contracts is not only a replacement for the old Escrow system. It is a great tool for some corps. It could certainly be improved, but it's not all e-bay
-- Vivian: You go too far, Marlowe. Marlowe: Those are harsh words to throw at a man, especially when he's walking out of your bedroom. |
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: Pang Grohl Just imagine 100 people doing a query for "Dread" against all of the contracts in EVE. Now imagine all the whine threads about how lag-tastic it is to search contracts... Really the regional limitations are a good thing.
Meh i'm sure their DBA could do a prechached query result on that.
With out a doubt, but that's a manual intervention. How many times do you suppose it will break because of an update to the database? Multiply the amount of validation, and fixing for every one of those pre-cached queries.
The point is that the Contracts system as it is, can't help but be less of a load on the EVE database, than a global search functionality.
There is no need for constant DB querying at all, they just have to alias all items on contract to a seperate contract server and make a note of this in the main database.
From this point on all interaction with the contract system takes place away from the main database and game nodes. At the same time this strikes down any obstacle to go for a EVE wide contract system. This would scale up well beyond anything EVE can be put trough given the number of players and the number on concurrent contracts players can handle.
It is in fact so stupidly simple, I can't understand all the peeps that say, LAG this, LAG that, can't be done. It's freaking software design lesson 101. And you as a player wouldn't notice a thing except that is works and is responsive!
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Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Inspiration "And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4"
You CAN'T be serious....
This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR!
People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions.
Um, people did this on the old escrow system too so what difference does it make? I know I sure as hell wasn't going to fly all the way over to BoB space, for example, when I saw something on escrow there. I'd be killed trying to go there anyway since they do NBSI. And someone newish to the game wouldn't know anything about that kind of stuff either.
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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 -
[73]
Quote: ncluding (hopefully) new contract types which will blow your socks off (if that's the sort of thing you're in to).
WTB: T2 Sock Hardeners. ------
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Third Down
Hard Rock Cafe
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo
Quote: is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL? or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
OMFG PROOF THAT THERE ARE MORE DEVS IN BOB!!!!!1111
Seriously, I think it's probably just a joke. A pretty funny one at that, at least for me.
Maybe it's a joke, maybe it's a revealing gaffe. But of all people, CCP employees don't get to make that joke, not in the current atmosphere.
This should be referred to Arkanor, who should dish out the slappings.
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:52:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Code Monkey
We're also grouping Auction and Item Exchange together as a filtering parameter to further ease the browsing experience.
Noooooo! I don't want no stinking auctions... When I search for item exchanges, I only want item exchanges!
Originally by: Code Monkey
There have been a lot of requests for a more generic item search than having to search by a specific item-type which is the only criteria available today.
A move in the right direction, but still a far cry from a real search engine. How do I search for all Corpum items, whatever their type?
Also, if I need blueprints, will it show only blueprints? And if I am searching for ships, will it show me 1,674,231 blueprints as well? I would hate to ignore blueprint sellers, since they probably have other things to sell.
Will the sorting of multi-page results be fixed? I.e. if sorting by acending ISK, the results on page 1 should be the lowest, then page 2 the next highest, and so on?
- Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Ilor Prophet
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:55:00 -
[76]
Honestly I don't have a problem with the region-by-region thing, but what might be interesting is to allow an empire-by-empire listing of all contracts.
For instance, allow all contracts in Caldari space (i.e. Lonetrek, The Citadel, and The Forge) to be listed together. This would give people a little bit more freedom in where they want to post stuff, as well as making things interesting once factional warfare starts.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:08:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Inspiration on 27/02/2007 22:06:32
Originally by: Derran
Originally by: Inspiration "And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4"
You CAN'T be serious....
This restriction is currently a major indirect LAG GENERATOR!
People all over the place need to do a lot of interface actions to find stuff located in different regions. Which in turn forces everyone to put their contract up in Jita. Which in turn forces everyone to move to Jita to place bids on auctions.
Um, people did this on the old escrow system too so what difference does it make? I know I sure as hell wasn't going to fly all the way over to BoB space, for example, when I saw something on escrow there. I'd be killed trying to go there anyway since they do NBSI. And someone newish to the game wouldn't know anything about that kind of stuff either.
The difference is that back then you could claim remotely and fresh escrows from all over the universe were visible to all. Currently with auction contracts its basicly impossible to participate (bid) if you are not in or very close to The Forge.
As for not taking things out of BOB space, you could create REMOTELY a courier job, so that somone from BOB would bring it to empire for you.....for a fee! Thats no longer an option either for most of us!
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:21:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 27/02/2007 22:18:55
Originally by: Inspiration
As for not taking things out of BOB space, you could create REMOTELY a courier job, so that somone from BOB would bring it to empire for you.....for a fee! Thats no longer an option either for most of us!
I create courier jobs regularly from my Assets window, and sometimes they both start and end in different regions. What's the problem there?
And I do agree on the claiming cross-region functionality.
EDIT: You should allow far more courier missions tbh. Like 10 per Contracts levels. Courier missions are win-win for everyone, since people do actually make a living out of moving stuff.
- Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:31:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Inspiration on 27/02/2007 22:30:09
Originally by: Andargor theWise I create courier jobs regularly from my Assets window, and sometimes they both start and end in different regions. What's the problem there?
Sorry I did not knew that, here I just made an assumtion. Never tried it beyond my region because of that assumtion. Having to fly over myself to claim something it is not something I often need anyway!
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:34:00 -
[80]
How come you (the Developer) are in BoB space? Check the first picture and look at the location of the Assualt Launchers
Make a Difference
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: John McCreedy How come you (the Developer) are in BoB space? Check the first picture and look at the location of the Assualt Launchers
OMG Dev Haxx0r!!
NOL FTW!!11one - Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 04:27:00 -
[82]
Can we please search multiple reagions at once? Maybe set a limit to it or just get away with region limits, or how about regions close to you? That would be hot.
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Hillesumos
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.02.28 09:39:00 -
[83]
I really would appreciate if we could get some more contracts slots since the current number is just too low for any serious specialised contractor.
I make courier contract and frankly i can create more than the current limit of courier contract available.
I don't mind having to train a high level skill to get some more but I just need more slots thanks. ---------
Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 10:48:00 -
[84]
hey hey
nice changes. just missed 1 i think.
item exchange : BPC for BPC BPC trades always come up with the BPO when searced for item. id like some Drake BPC's but i cant set a wtb or an item exchange for them :(
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Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 11:36:00 -
[85]
Most needed changes:
1) You must be able to bid on a contract in any region.
2) Global search is needed, however I understand the impact this might have with a large result set. But maybe make it only possible to do a global search when searching for a specific item.
3) Add a sub type category, T1, T2, Faction, Officer, faction and officer, all. For example let sya you want to search for all faction XL Shield Boosters. Then you could choose item type XL Shield Boosters and subcategory Faction.
4) Being able to search for only BPO or BPCs (or both).
5) Increase the base number of contracts you can setup
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:14:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers The contract system does a poor job connecting buyer and seller. There were over a dozen people willing to offer more then 25b on this blueprint. Yet noone bid because he didnt know about that contract. Or didnt know about the end time (it doesnt display), or just couldnt be bothered to travel to lonetrek. When 20b Free ISK (claim the BPO at 8.5b, link it in BPO channel once, sell it for 28b within 30minutes) is not enticing enough, what is?
Excuse me, but that is a rather stupid argument.
- everyone even halfway serious in trading has an alt in jita. Travelling time to lonetrek: 5 minutes. - "not bidding on it because there was no end time"...please. If you are willing to pay 25 bil for something nothing stops you from bidding as much on it. You will get 100% back as soon as you are overbid. You do not need to know on the second when the contract has finished for that. Where is the problem?
Now, not knowing about the contract...thats something else. But nothing is stopping people from getting it to jita where it would have gotten far more attention. Now, this is definately monopolizing jita as trade hub even more, but I personally do not see much of a problem there. Since the removal of belts I haven't encountered any serious lag there and it also gives people the option to trade effeciently with high-quality goods by buying them in the border regions cheaply and transporting them to jita for resale.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.28 16:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Aramendel ...
Exactly. You say the same things i said. The contract system is a poor way at connecting buyers and sellers, it requires alts, it forces everyone to list anything of importance in Jita. On top of that, it charges you tax for that. So why did the sell orders forum explode with traffic again?
Ironically, Privateers may be the largest factor why other systems still have trade in them ... a lot of the alliance grunts are too afraid of them to come to Jita.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:15:00 -
[88]
Why choose to sell your stuff in Jita, when The Forge region has so many other systems that are also shown by the market & contracts. I guess the only reason would be not to have to travel. ----- CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. |
Vadoc Trax
Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:51:00 -
[89]
The thing I want the most is the ability to ignore certain items on Contract. There are far too many contracts selling BPC's that I just want to ignore. If there are 20 pages of contracts, 19 of those will be BPC's. -------------------------------------------------- #1. Pillage, THEN burn. #8. Mockery and derision have their place. Usually, it's on the far side of the airlock. |
Vadoc Trax
Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:51:00 -
[90]
The thing I want the most is the ability to ignore certain items on Contract. There are far too many contracts selling BPC's that I just want to ignore. If there are 20 pages of contracts, 19 of those will be BPC's. -------------------------------------------------- #1. Pillage, THEN burn. #8. Mockery and derision have their place. Usually, it's on the far side of the airlock. |
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