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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
AceOfSpace
Myth...
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:01:00 -
[31]
Really nice looking changes 
-it's my job to do it- |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:05:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Inspiration
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:43:31
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/02/2007 21:42:49
Originally by: Moraguth
Finally, Pang Grohl, someone else with some sense. It's very hard to find that these days on the forums.
Ok, thats a troll!
Originally by: Moraguth
CCP: don't buckle on the all regions thing, it's not needed, and contracts are more useful with regional restrictions. People can sift contracts while they're doing other things, they don't need immediate satisfaction.
You basicly say, its good that I waste my time! Who are you to decide that is good for me?
Originally by: Moraguth
Again, thanks for the changes and for listening to the (more sensible members of the) community.
Trolling?
1) not a troll, seriously... some people just keep saying "i want this i want this, the game will die if you don't give me this omg suxorz it's too hard wtf!!111" That's who i was talking to.
2) it's your time, if you consider it a waste, don't put that on me. I don't think it's a waste of time, but i think everybody and their minmatar slave is whining about the same thing. CCP already said they aren't going to do that, and I hope they stick to their guns.
3) seriously, I'm not trolling. Go check out the other threads full of whiners about the same subject, it just won't stop. People who take the time to step back and look at things how they are, how they could be, and how they should be, would not be complaining like this, it just isn't sensible.
Don't make me put one of those retarded disclaimers about stuff being my own opinion, because honestly, unless you're a "representative" everything people say on the boards is their own opinion.
I'm not calling anyone in here names, but I do congratulate the people that I agree with because hey, great minds think alike and all that.
I promise, I'm a good guy, I just have a different opinion than you.
good game |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:13:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 27/02/2007 00:10:46
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Originally by: The Blog
Start Page
Optional please. Seriously. Enough clicking already.
It is optional, thankfully. If you look closely at the screenshot, you can see that the "Start Page" is an additional third tab next to the "My Contracts" and "Available Contracts" tabs that we currently have. You'll only open the interface on the start page if you had that tab selected when you closed it the last time. 
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:15:00 -
[34]
many customers have been lost with contracts.
* region limits - speaks for itself. but i see the necessity
* auctions - have split the shopping mall even further. either/some of these changes plz:
a) buyout always required
b) auctioning as new skill that requires contracting IV or even V
c) 1 day maximum
* freeform - well... it's not just the freshman that can't spot the difference. even people with years on their backs, preequipped with superstition, can fall for these. anyway... apart from my not-seeing the point in freeforms, being able to save templates is a serious fertilizer for scams.
* rigged ships - i take it repackaging will never be an option? plz add a backdoor, something like "[rigged] Vagabond x1" and a multiple-items-like table
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Hauler McTote
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:18:00 -
[35]
Quote:
4. Freeform contracts: make sure the barriers dont involve even more clicks, or the legitimate users (both of them) will be punished even more.
Lol, but thats so true, its sad.
100 man corp I was in, NO-ONE ever admitted to using freeform...Industrialists, re-sellers, shoppers, pew pew ers, all types.
But, yeah, what many of the people above have said, and been saying since Rev came out...Contracts generally blows, it's non intuitive, frustrating, and slow, glad to see they are carrying on the tradition of useless, overly complicated, unneccesary baggage.
The AVERAGE user ie: most everyone, I would suspect does as I do:
Item Exchange to sell.
A slow, boring ass, inneficient search for faction, t2 and weird stuff.
Market for everything else.
I dont see much change here, reckon we will find out, eh?
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Cyan Nuevo
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:35:00 -
[36]
Quote:
At least do away with Step 2. Allow us, if we wish to escrow multiple items, to CTRL-click multiple items from our/corp hanger and then right click, select "Create Contract", to bundle them all in one contract.
Signed signed signed! The sorting possibilities in the contracts window itself suck, please let us use our station hangars to find the stuff first. Even better, allow us to create contracts from inside containers.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Moraguth
1) not a troll, seriously... some people just keep saying "i want this i want this, the game will die if you don't give me this omg suxorz it's too hard wtf!!111" That's who i was talking to.
I stopped ingame sales, OT-TS closed down, NAGA stopped their legendary shop, many more just stopped trading or even left without saying a word on the forums - all because of the new contract system. I think its safe to assume that those who you try to insult know better then you.
The state of contracts can be summarized in one short story:
A 30b+ BPO sold for 8.5b. Location: Lonetrek, auction finished on a thursday evening eve time. It was a 6 days auction. I dont think you need to say more.
The contract system wasnt an improvement, it was a change. Some things are better, many are worse. The sad part is that we are comparing it to escrow (!), the system that we considered to be the worst possible.
Too bad most of you are either too greedy (alts generate income) or too stubborn to realise that a system that favors soulless altcorps, shopping / marketcheck alts and one single mega-hub (besides making people want to use forums ...) is not what eve needs.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.02.27 01:50:00 -
[38]
Quote:
We are fixing a bunch of features in contracts which will make it more usable as well.
Haha. At least you have a sense of humor about forum stuff.
Still regional though eh. Boooo.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:09:00 -
[39]
is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL?
or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:19:00 -
[40]
Nice additions, though I have a concern on one of these changes.
Perhaps I read it wrong, but Item Exchange and Auction filters were being combined into one? Though I can see a use for a filter that does this, in addition to the existing ones, I would still like to be able to filter on the different types. Since the code exists for both types already, and you've coded the combonation it seems, why not just add the new one? :)
-AS |
Cyan Nuevo
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 02:40:00 -
[41]
Quote:
is there some reason or just a coincidence that the devs shows screenshots of testing stuff 1 jump from NOL?
or is it just bad taste considering the latest events regarding a alliance in that area?
OMFG PROOF THAT THERE ARE MORE DEVS IN BOB!!!!!1111
Seriously, I think it's probably just a joke. A pretty funny one at that, at least for me. 
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Viceroy Bolloxim
Caldari
GalacTECH Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.02.27 03:15:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Viceroy Bolloxim on 27/02/2007 03:14:21
I agree. Currently there is a real pain in that I can scan a region, but even if I see an auction, I have to be present. Its like having ebay, but being only able to bid in the same city they posted the item on ...
flawed is an understatement.
searching across multiple regions to me, seems nothing more than just 'appending' the new search data to the output, seems again rather straightforward.
bollo
Originally by: Riley Craven
Nice try, but your not even close to making contracts usable.
First, people should be able to search for an item across multiple regions. No one wants to hunt for an item thats hard to find in 1 region at a time.
Second, you need to make them globabl, period. I cant tell you how many times people find an item exchange go to the region to find its no longer there. Further it doesnt make since that you cant at least bid on an auction globally... your still gonna have to fly to the dang spot to pick the thing up... in its current form you are just making people fly needlessly there and back.
If you really are serious about reducing lag in jita than you have to give people a reason not to sell in jita.
You may have made casual browsing easier with being able to see an entire group of mods, but you still got along way to go to make contracts truely usable.
wikipedia: Gunboat diplomacy refers to the pursuit of foreign policy objectives with the aid of conspicuous displays of military powerùimplying or constituting a direct threat of warfare... |
TempaT
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Posted - 2007.02.27 04:51:00 -
[43]
Yes keeping on the same lines as eBay it does make sense.
I mean the whole escrow system has back pedaled in a way. ok its nice and user friendly in the sense those who wish to search for a specific item can do so now but searching threw how many regions is beginning to take its toll on the Eve community. Its not the lazy factor its just the whole time issue. Searching threw every region and not just the main Hubs would take a considerable amount of time.
I for one would like to see this happen as would the majority.
TempaT
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
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Posted - 2007.02.27 06:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Lienzo on 27/02/2007 06:40:24
Hmm. Some of these are good changes. I like the NPE/visibility changes best.
However, I would like to use the Freeform contracts as public contracts. If the fear of spam is overwhelming, just limit the range. Just one system or one station is adequate. 4990 systems are not hubs afterall and it's always nice for business to occur there.
The ability to do very narrow advertisement is pretty essential to many businesses. Not everyone wants to play whack-a-mole with npcs, and making posts on EVE-O is both a little too broadly aimed, and too ephemeral in terms of longevity.
Tags and hooks linking to contracts is the other big step needed.
An alternative kit of NPE & Networking tools would ease the need of course.
"I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar." |
Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2007.02.27 07:30:00 -
[45]
Excellent work - nothing else to say...
A question though:
What kind of other contracts could we possible need?
(Except for perhaps a more specific Loan Contract with deposits and scamproof)
Don't need all the details but a few solid clues perhaps?
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Arushia
Nova Labs
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Posted - 2007.02.27 07:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
A 30b+ BPO sold for 8.5b. Location: Lonetrek, auction finished on a thursday evening eve time. It was a 6 days auction. I dont think you need to say more.
Umm. "Your own fault for setting the starting bid too damn low."
On another topic: Please let us accept contracts and bid on auctions in other regions. What's the point of viewing another region's contracts without being able to do anything to them?
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.02.27 07:51:00 -
[47]
This game NEED something that allow galaxy wide trading. The sell/buy/trade forums doesn't cut it. Mostly because of crappy search functions, but also the need to bump and the fact that the forum is hardly viewable ingame.
-----
CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. |
Drizzet
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Posted - 2007.02.27 08:11:00 -
[48]
Ok Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but here goes nothing if its the wrong place please move it to the right one.
For starters great game I have 4 accounts and have never found another game like this. I have recently gotten back to doing level 4 missions in Saila along with a few of my friends, we are having an issue. The system we run missions(saila)in is lagging worse than jita which anyone that has played eve knows is amazing. If we were just shoping or running courier missions this would not be to big a deal but we are running combat level 4 missions with a 35 second delay and anyone that has tryed to solo level 4 worlds colide knows this is already a hard mission without lag. My question is is there any plan or estimated time when this is going to be fixed its realy killing the game for me and a few of my friends?
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babylonstew
Caldari
Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 08:14:00 -
[49]
good start to the changes
now, when can we contract ships with loaded guns/launchers?
when can we contract damadged goods?
when can we contract ships with rigs?
and also, if we cant do any of the above, ffs, at least give an option window that says item X is damaged and cannot be contracted, would you like to remove it
instead of the crap we have now and no feckin clue which item out of 70 is the one to drop.
thats so damn anoying it aint funny
------
*snip* please keep sigs EVE-related. Contact [email protected] if you have any further questions - Karass Sayfo
Originally by: High Sierra
note to self - don't ever provide ANYONE with quoteable material EVER AGAIN.
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Dave White
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.27 09:41:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dave White on 27/02/2007 09:43:01
NOL 1 jump away? Coincidence? I think not!
On a more serious note, nice and I'm looking forward to it.
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Gneiss Breaker
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Posted - 2007.02.27 10:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hauler McTote
The AVERAGE user ie: most everyone, I would suspect does as I do:
Item Exchange to sell.
A slow, boring ass, inneficient search for faction, t2 and weird stuff.
Market for everything else.
I dont see much change here, reckon we will find out, eh?
Reckon that's true. Just wish the "Item exchange to sell" bit had about 47 less clicks in it.
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Bado Sten
Minmatar
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.27 10:20:00 -
[52]
I use the contracts a lot, and look very much forward to this. Thanks!
I have one suggestiong, though;
For corp contracts, could you please put some more info int the corporation journal? Right now the only text entry is "prize for accepting a contract". This happens for both when I accept a contract for the corp, but also when someone accept our contracts.
With no more information than this, any director or accountant in the corp can not see what is going on. He can only see that ISK left or entered the corp account, but not why.
Would it not be possible to have both corp contracts and personal contracts add an entry that looks something like "Contract accepted by/from character/corporation : text of description field".
That would make the journal more informative to those who need to know the financial status of the corporation. |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.02.27 10:27:00 -
[53]
NOL is where that 'big event' happened?
Wow this dev blog is the best ever.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Zzazzt
Gallente
Millennium
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Posted - 2007.02.27 10:30:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Zzazzt on 27/02/2007 10:27:04
Quote:
You can see at a glance how your contract status is at any one time. This will prove quite useful for finding those elusive private contracts. :-$
'Bout bloody time as well.
____________________________________________
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Mar'Dur Taren
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Posted - 2007.02.27 11:00:00 -
[55]
Just a comment on the use of links in a page that will be viewed in the IGB. I was reading this while doing some exploration, waiting for a probes scan. I clicked on the links supplied thinking "If a Dev put it here it will be IGB compatible". After all, I was reading it in the IGB.
I lost my probes, my drone, the time I had spent setting up and crashed my entire system for a really bad joke.
You must develop a system to visually differentiate links to IGB compatible sites from those that are not. Either that or don't use such links in a IGB site. There is no excuss for the kind of crash I experienced.
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Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.27 12:14:00 -
[56]
These changes mostly look good, I agree with the people complaining about both regionalisation and contract limits though.
When the idea first came out I decided I would wait and try it. I waited, I tried it - it sucks.
When I want something I search my local region, Jita's region and Rens' region. I imagine 90% of other people are doing the same. As a result to sell anything big I have to take it The Forge or Heimatar as I want people to see it.
Just look at the market forum - if anything it is more busy now post-contracts than it was before.
The contract limit is a problem, most of my business involves lots of items in a few contracts so I am surviving - but I can see myself edging closer to the limit all the time.
The Auctions system is very primitive, although I think it is going in the right direction and I use it a fair amount - it needs:
o End date and time displayed
o Sniper rule option
o Ebay-esq automatic bid system (i.e. I say 'I will put in a max of 30 mill' I will then automatically outbid anyone else up to 30 mill)
Blueprint Research Service Available
See thread for details.
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BobbyRaider
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Posted - 2007.02.27 12:14:00 -
[57]
Edited by: BobbyRaider on 27/02/2007 12:21:15
Finally !!!!! Contracts gets some love ...
But is it enough ??
I've made some suggestions before, on Oveur's
devblog comments Linkage (first post near middle of page)
For sake of brevity (read "to save space") I'm not gonna enumerate all the reasons in detail all over again ... 
I love the screenies :) But yes, it can get better ...
Really needed:
1. Remote bidding (ffs, yes it is needed!!!111)
2. Sorting !!!!11111oneoneoneeleven (the numbers go on ...)
3. Searching in groups, yes, but other than the ones
... suggested, it's just a matter of making a few more
... tables, so wth, you can do it, mate (check Argenton
... Sayvers' post above, for suggestions)
4. And yes, a few less clicks would be appreciated, single
... page forms are so much easier to use and to avoid errors
5. Rigs getting seen on ships, or details of fitted ships
... showing modules and rigs fitted on it
Suggestions:
6. Can GTCs be made into in-game items ? Wouldn't be too
... hard to implement imo, just need an option to convert to
... item on the webpage, and could be sold in-game by normal
... contracts. It would be huge, imo
7. Can there be a seperate forum channel for GTCs ? As it
... is the Sell Orders forum is swamped, and it takes only
... a few hours for stuff to move to page 5-10 ... GTCs
... take up a lot of that space, and moving them to another
... channel would be better for all parties involved ...
Otherwise, rock on :) <-- this tells you how old I am
Btw, what the heck happened to the mini freighter ??? 
Bobby
edit: corrections ...
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Uinen
Amarr
Backup Squad
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Posted - 2007.02.27 12:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: blog
We will not see any big new features in the system or a change in the fundamental way it works.
So things that f**** ppl everyday will stay. No need to improve global searching/bidding/usage.
Originally by: blog
What we will have, however, are some much needed improvements to the interface and usability (And no, we're not changing the region-scheme for Revelations 1.4).
Give us global contracts / global item searching - those are IMPORTANT and NEEDED changes.
I will always miss old escrow. It was like big supermarket where im looking at everything whats avaible and i can buy whatever i want to if i want to. In contracts system i have to know what exactly i want to buy and search for it, mainly in Jita region. Gone are days where i was looking bored at escrow list whats new there... that was fun, CCP killed it :(
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Adderon San
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Posted - 2007.02.27 12:44:00 -
[59]
Especially because the amount of stuff actually on the contract list in any one region is relatively small, a global view, not limited by region, is sorely needed.
The more advanced search / filter functionality should take care of the info overload once useage picks up.
I know this might be a long way off, but once you've got your filtered list a "show on starmap" button that colors the stars which have a contract in your filtered list and show available contract info on the tool tip for each system would be ace.... That could be a biggy though, so I wont hold my breath :)
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Lore Varan
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Posted - 2007.02.27 13:01:00 -
[60]
Computing lesson number 1.
Since the very dawn of computing
Computers have had one very important thing in common.
Computers are very good at repeating repetitive tasks with near perfect accuracy.
Thereby freeing there users from time consuming tasks.
It is often overlooked these days or rather taken for granted, but it is this attribute more than any other that has led to the phenominal growth and adoption of computers in all aspect of both business and personal life in the western world.
All "Killer apps" have this attribute in common.
The word processor: "Enables documents to be printed as many times as you like at the press of a button" , no more repeated typeing the same letter over and over again on a manual typewritter.
The spread sheet: "Enables the same calculation to be performed on a large number of inputs with the minimum of effort", good bye huge accounts departments.
The Database: "Enables large ammounts of data to be stored and just as importantly enables the same data processing task to be be applied to each record in the database again and again without the need for user intervention on each record".
CAD-CAM packages: "Enables the repeated application of physical calculation to be performed on datasets representing physical objects".
Image processing software: "Enables the same graphical function to be applied over a whole image without requiring the user to calculate the colour of each pixel"
In fact it is probably true that every succesful software application of the late 20th and early 21st century has had this particular attribute in common , even if sometimes you have to look quite deeply for it.
Why put this is a thread about contracting?
Because contracting with its current restrictions does not obey this LAW of computing.
It will never be the killer app you want it to be if you inflict upon its users the neccessity to perform labourious repetitive tasks.
Repetive tasks are the domain of the computer , the software must perform these functions not the user.
I am of course talking about multi-region searches.
Currently to search for a rare item e.g. chelm's cap recharger requires the user to do a widespread search.
This is currently 5 clicks and a 10 second wait per region.
To search Empire thats 80 clicks and a lot of waiting around.
If I now want to look for Draclira's cap recharger as well I have to do it all over again.
160 clicks and loosing the will to live.
Now if I actually find the item I am looking for I have to fly upto 30 jumps maybe? to place a bid.
That's an entire hour at best of my precious eve-time wasted as I will probably have to repeat this long journey again if I am outbid.
This is a pain in the neck and to tell you the truth I find myself not being able to be bothered with it anymore. I search my local region and I search the forge, after that if someone has put it up in a different region I probably wont spot it. This is probably why Jita is such a lag fest these days as most traders now see it as the only place to do business if you want to reach a large customer base.
I cant understand why you want to inflict such pain on the player base, I cant understand it.
Please explain to me the logic behind such restrictions.
Some of the new cosmetic features do look nice and will be welcome I'm sure, but saying new contract types will blow our socks off is highly optimistic on your part when contracting has such a deeply flawed foundation.
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