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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Horatio Nately
Caldari 808 Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.03 18:02:00 -
[31]
*snip* for OOC - Karass Sayfo ---------------------------------------
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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.04 06:27:00 -
[32]
Besides pirate entities, who would pick a fight with a purely neutral alliance in 0.0?
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Jereth Ravyn
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.04 08:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Qolde Besides pirate entities, who would pick a fight with a purely neutral alliance in 0.0?
The tricky part of that question is the term "purely neutral". NRDS is in no stretch of the imagination "purely neutral". I would argue that there is no such thing as a purely neutral alliance... especially one in 0.0 space. And there are plenty of non-pirate entities that would pick a fight with even semi-neutral alliances. As a matter of fact, there have been other semi-neutral alliances (NRDS) that have started major POS wars against other semi-neutral alliances... I don't want to go off on a tangent, but suffice it to say that the answer to your question is "lots of people".
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.05 02:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Originally by: Hardin
The CVA never recruits any corporations which have not lived in our space and contributed to its defence for at least six months often more - and as a result we know our corporations are solid and wont quit when the **** hits the fan. It also means they (generally) understand our ethos and they way we operate before they join...
Although not directly NBSI related, I like this part.
qft
Originally by: Qolde Besides pirate entities, who would pick a fight with a purely neutral alliance in 0.0?
Bored people?
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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:52:00 -
[35]
Originally by: The Comatorium
Originally by: Kali Ananda I welcome the opertunity to kill and shoot anyone, anywhere.
HOO RAH! If we dont do that itd be as stupid as bringin concord out of empire.
Out there it works on the Predator-Prey rule, the jungle laws.
Er that would be the hunt for a pack, single out the easy prey (young, weak, old) and then hope to catch them, before sleeping it off under a tree for a couple of days, and then repeat until Breeding time?
Basically NBSI is essentially 'Privateering' for 0.0 space. It keeps the PVP mentality happy and defence is assured. Its quite a simplistic approch to the complex idea of ruling 'space'.
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Drasery
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Posted - 2007.03.05 22:37:00 -
[36]
NBSI is the only pratical approach to deal with the scumbags of EVE. Law abiding citizens should stay in law abiding places or join up with a company that can provide them access to 0.0. Most of us have paid dearly for ability to tap into the riches of deepspace. If someone starts a convo with me i'm not a pod of steal i'll talk and if they seem geinune probably not attack unless it's part of our soveirgn protected space. I don't want to let them go just to find out they killed a compatriot of mine latter. In the words of Mother from that great classic movie "Full Metal Jacket", "Better Him then me!" Fly safe
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Cythrawl
Caldari Central Defiance
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Posted - 2007.03.06 18:03:00 -
[37]
Neutrality and NBSI are always going to be a touchy subject.
Central Defiance for instance believes in the use of NBSI. But at the same time we respect the neutrality of other alliances, such as Ushra'Khan and Sylph Alliance, who we've flown for at one time or another. In fact, we demand it of our pilots to follow the rules of their space when there out of said respect.
The bit people start nagging at is when you look at the majority of our members, we live in low-sec empire space. That means when we go off and blow up hostiles and potential threats, we start loosing sec status. Mine's in the dump right now. That gives us those nice flashing bars when you run into us in local. Flashing bars tend to make everyone think only one thing, pirate.
Most people do yell 'Pirates!'(we prefer ninjas) and go screaming away from us. Granted, they're allowed that reaction, and if they're not blue it's probably a smart thing, but those who are a member of our list of friends know that we provide a hard-line form of stability and security for those who are interested in safe low-sec livelihoods. We do dirty work to keep our friends safe, but we're not just indiscriminate roving killers.
Another thing is, while certain alliances run a neutral policy, they have concessions such as starter corporation pilots with no prior job history are kill on sight. This is understandable in an age when spies invade your space constantly to give recon to hostile pilots.
This doesn't make the alliance a liar about their neutrality, but announces that they're not going to allow foolishness from possibly neutral, but most likely hostile or ill-intending, targets entering into their space.
True neutrality is an illusion and anyone thinking that you can allow everyone do their own will in a place you want to call home is asking to be run over rough-trodden by those with the intent to make good off those weaker than themselves.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=
DEFY Killboard
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Silvestri
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.06 21:45:00 -
[38]
It's tricky right now with the whole war going on. You don't know if a neutral noob warping in is a spy for an oncoming fleet. So you get rid of it. Right now IAC is NBSI for the Catch region. Other then that we're normally NRDS. The way we've been keeping tab on neutrals is this. IF you are in a strictly noob corp...we check your history...if your a noob you die. Noobs have no reason to be in 0.0. Play in empire and train....get money..you need it in 0.0. If you're a neutral alliance or corp you pass when we are NRDS. There has been some issues as of late. But war is war...I agree to both NRDS and NBSI. It's situational ya know? If you can't survive in 0.0 by any means necessary...don't go... maybe talk in local...
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Rohab
Aegis Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.08 03:09:00 -
[39]
communists vs capitalists? socialists or nationalists...
For me the only way is NBSI. I hate alts anyway.
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Beowulf scot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:15:00 -
[40]
IAC allow me to npc in the region and im greatfull for them allowing me to do that. If i am npcing in IAC space and someone attacks an IAC member in my system i always go to there aid no matter what standings i have with the person attacking them. I got drunk and ended up in Venal and atempted to do the same thing but got my arse handed to me on a plate. "60 jumps after a bottle of bourban but it seemed a good idea at the time".
I think nbsi is a good thing but if someone jumps in and sits on a gate and asks permission to carry on and do some npcing then they should be given a chance.
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TaldarianII
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:04:00 -
[41]
Edited by: TaldarianII on 13/03/2007 10:02:15 Well, the problem with neutral guys are that they could be comming by peacefully. Or they could be planting an enemy cyno for invasion, so NBSI here. No point in risking a POS because of some random neutral guy, if he should be a scouting alt then losing a shuttle/pod wouldn't be much of a loss anyway right? .
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Thomas Maleficus
Caldari all professions
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Posted - 2007.03.13 15:38:00 -
[42]
There are problems no matter how you look at it. NBSI means potentially sparking war, or losing a potentially good ally. NRDS leaves you vulnerable to attack. I personally would like to see a situation (not likely to happen) wherein all alliances post a channel to contact on a can at their borders so people can notify the alliance they are entering. May take some resources and a commitment to keep somone on channel to allow or disallow entry. At least if people are warned, now entering NBSI, or no if you come in here we'll shoot to kill, may solve some of the hard feelings. Then again, it's 0.0, people ought to know better going in, it's not empire out there.
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Finlander09
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:38:00 -
[43]
NBSI is piracy. piracy is BAD
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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.14 17:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Thomas Maleficus NBSI means potentially sparking war, or losing a potentially good ally.
I've seen this happen at least twice.
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Cybarite
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.03.15 19:36:00 -
[45]
I don't have a huge amount of experience with 0.0, or at all for that matter, but I have seen over the last month that an NRDS policy can be harmful. I've lived in ED's 0.0 territory for about a month, so far I have yet to see a single nuetral who wasn't (A) A macrominer (B) An altscout (C) taking SS's of our PoS's or (D) a ganker looking for kills. We lose ships every so often because people don't hit safespots as soon as nuetrals show up in local, at least once a day a fleet of nuetrals shows up looking for trouble, it's not like we're ebil pirates or anything, but experience is a harsh teacher and we're learning to shoot first ask questions later.
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Calebes
Gallente The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.15 23:59:00 -
[46]
Let me bring philosophy and ethics back into this discussion, instead of all this daily-life-routine conversation.
How do I see the difference between NRDS and NBSI? Quite simple: NRDS is 'innocent until proven otherwise', whereas NBSI is very simply 'quilty until proven otherwise'.
Ponder this, and have a fun day.
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Aewaytor
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.03.16 01:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: mamolian
After practicing NBSI and NRDS, Ideally I prefer the NDRS approach.. although trying to keep the players entertained, and focused on abiding by NDRS policy.. is often more trouble than its worth.. Let em shoot each other, and let the cloning vats sort it out.
Good post.
When one of the main factors in going down to 0.0 is the fighting, a NRDS policy gets boring very quickly. Hell, even NBSI gets tiresome as it means having to jump a lot further afield to get some targets.
Anyone who operates a NRDS policy must commended for their discipline. Unfortunately, it's not something I have
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Oli4Oli4
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.03.16 07:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: tost K.A.O.S 4tw
KILL KILL KILL
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Johlie
Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.03.16 17:52:00 -
[49]
In 0.0 I assume every nuetral not in a shuttle or nub frig hostile. If they dont attack me, then thats all well and good. However nine times out of ten they are hostile, and thats why I practice an NBSI policy.
I like these acronyms, KAOS is fitting for kill all on sight, as is NRDS for not red dont shoot it :P.
-------------------------
-=If I win I can't be stopped! If I lose I shall be dead.=- |
Vexed Angel
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Posted - 2007.04.19 18:52:00 -
[50]
I have recently started traveling to 0.0 to wet my feet. Being in a non allied corp whos base is in empire makes for a difficult journey through 0.0. From the news you would think that bob are "the bad guys" yet with all you folks practicing NBSI you have set yourself as the dark force. The basic problem is that once an alliance squad engages me I have no choice but to defend myself which in turn puts me to a red status for the rest of the alliance. I then never had the chance to work any sort of diplomacy and because of 2 pilots have lost standing with hundreds in return. So as it is I have had to run from a few engagements just to eliminate the possibility of being hunted by larger forces. So in the end apologize in local for the engagement but you did shoot first and I was tanking 3 BS's so I wouldnt consider myself a threat at that time... What this amounts to is people want to fluff their killboards, it really hasn't got alot to do with security in those cases.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 12:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Thomas Maleficus NBSI means potentially sparking war.
You say it like sparking a war is a bad thing. Wars are good for everyone except the ones who lose it (and depending on how resounding the loss it might even be good for them). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Nyabinghi
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.20 14:53:00 -
[52]
I suppose it all comes down to the local Alliances preferences. Some are more possessive of their space than others, some are more at risk of losing their space to other Alliances. Basically the onus is on the traveler to make an effort to let the controlling Alliance know he/she is not a threat (I recommend fresh baked banana bread). Be sure at the very least the minute an Alliance member spots you in local an investigation has been started to find out who you are and whether or not to shoot you.
***
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.22 12:29:00 -
[53]
As a relatively new recruit to Agony Unleashed, I am not able to make an official comment on behalf of my corporation and alliance. However, I can speak for myself, and I believe that my attitudes are consistent with Agony's guiding philosophy.
The ancient peoples of Earth practiced what they called 'martial arts', as eloquently described in Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Musashi captured the spirituality of the warrior in his Book of Five Rings, while Clausewitz's insights in On War remain essential for anyone who wishes to truly understand how to win at the strategic level. Those of us who join Agony Unleashed understand, on some level at least, that war is an Art.
Art, by its very nature, is something that everybody wants to share. And so Agony pilots share their art in two ways. The first way in which we share our art is through our training academy - and by sharing it we are enriched; as the ancient Romans said "He who teaches, learns." The second way in which we share our art is by performing it.
As ours is a spontaneous performance art, we practice neither NBSI nor NRDS. Rather, are rules of engagement are "NASI" - "Not Agony Shoot It". As with all rules of engagement, mistakes are made from time to time. Fortunately, the number of Agony ships lost due to these errors remains at acceptable levels.
I believe that peaceful trade has a very important place in our society. That very important place is known as 'highsec'. I salute Qolde and Guardian Heroes Inc for their bold vision to increase trade in 0.0. As with all other bold visionaries, I encourage them to bring along a suitably prepared and equipped escort.
Come meet me in 0.0 and we can make beautiful art together
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.22 21:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Calebes Let me bring philosophy and ethics back into this discussion, instead of all this daily-life-routine conversation.
How do I see the difference between NRDS and NBSI? Quite simple: NRDS is 'innocent until proven otherwise', whereas NBSI is very simply 'quilty until proven otherwise'.
Ponder this, and have a fun day.
Very nice way to put it.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.22 21:30:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Audri Fisher on 22/04/2007 21:27:15
Originally by: Vexed Angel I have recently started traveling to 0.0 to wet my feet. Being in a non allied corp who's base is in empire makes for a difficult journey through 0.0. From the news you would think that bob are "the bad guys" yet with all you folks practicing NBSI you have set yourself as the dark force. The basic problem is that once an alliance squad engages me I have no choice but to defend myself which in turn puts me to a red status for the rest of the alliance. I then never had the chance to work any sort of diplomacy and because of 2 pilots have lost standing with hundreds in return. So as it is I have had to run from a few engagements just to eliminate the possibility of being hunted by larger forces. So in the end apologize in local for the engagement but you did shoot first and I was tanking 3 BS's so I wouldn't consider myself a threat at that time... What this amounts to is people want to fluff their killboards, it really hasn't got alot to do with security in those cases.
That is because we can't verify that you aren't allied with BoB. It is paranoia true, but as history has shown us, it is justified paranoia. The is an ancient expression for this, "the people who have gone before you have ****** it up for everyone else" about the killboard padding remark, Fix pads my killboard enough w/o you TYVM
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Timmeh 2000
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:50:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Timmeh 2000 on 23/04/2007 10:51:06 Transmission intercepted and cleaned of the madmen interruptions. For questions, get in touch with our staff in Yulai or send us a transmission to [email protected]
This is an In Character role-playing forum - please remember to stay in character at all times. Please see the links in my signature for tips on roleplaying, and more importantly - the rules for this forum.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2007.04.28 20:28:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 28/04/2007 20:30:02
If you don't wish to get shot, contact a diplomat and get standings set before you go nosing around someone's space. It's that simple.
If we don't know who you are, for all we know you're an alt spy for an enemy, or you're scouting for an incoming attack fleet from a new enemy. In New Eden, if enemies aren't destroyed the moment you spot them, they go around blowing your stuff up. I'd rather cause the occasional true neutral to lose a few hours' work than be ganked by a swarm of reds because I ignored a faux-neutral in local who was acting as a spotter for them.
If a few non-hostile neutrals get caught in the crossfire, well, that's war. If a friendly alt-scout gets popped...he should have had standings fixed before he came in. CCP could probably make it a bit easier to get standings set, but that still doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Let me put it in a different context.
Say you're leading a Marine patrol squad in Iraq and you come across someone you don't know, someone who has no identification, and they're poking around the perimiter of an area you're supposed to be securing so your buddies can sleep safe.
Let's also say they have a very mean looking AK47 and a large bag of something on their back...you don't know what that something might be. It could be food they're hoping to trade with the rich foreigners...or it could be a sack full of plastique bricks. The weapon could just be for self-defense in a nation gone lawless, or it could be intended to harm that secret "friend" of yours over in squad 4.
You might not shoot him right away, depending on the surrounding tactical situation...but you certainly point your weapon at him and tell him to freeze and get his bloody hands in the air (consider this equivilant to lock, scram, web in Eve).
Now, assuming he doesn't jump around and start firing at you (most people in Eve will do just that!), you still have a standoff, with the potential for enemies to be creeping up on you every second you delay.
In Iraq, you have the option of closing, disarming, and hauling him off to detention while you find out what he was up to.
In Eve, if you can't satisfy yourself of his friendly intent immediately (you've done this long before warping in on top of him, thanks to the ability to check corporate affiliations and ask if anyone knows he's friendly), you have nothing to gain by letting him pass, and potentially everything to lose by delaying while the enemy fleet gets closer. So you skip all the intervening gibberish and just blow him away as soon as you have him locked.
You want to see NRDS become more common?
Get CCP to allow the rapid taking of prisoners...you send a cargo drone full of armed Marines across to the target ship, the pilot and crew are detained (the pilot must click [Yes] on a Surrender? dialog window), the ship is flown by them to the nearest friendly starbase/station, its assets are placed under alliance control, and the pilot has a real opportunity to prove his affiliations.
If it turns out that he's friendly, he can be given his things back (or not, if he strayed into a Pirate Alliance's space...but that's a risk of doing business in deep space!).
If he's not friendly...well, rather than give him a jump clone in your station, you might as well send him to a brand new body without any of the built-up aches and pains or fancy expensive implants of this one.
The end :)
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Oli4Oli4
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 23:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: tost K.A.O.S 4tw
Kill All On Sight !
KILL KILLL KILLLLLLLL
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Adeptus mecanicus
The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:34:00 -
[59]
well it's hard to open a dialoge with a neutral in your space while killing him coz you want to kill him b4 his friends show up or he manage to sneak away. regarding bubble camps well.....you have 30 sec to make your case tbh i support nbsi coz then you stake your claim by force and clean out the area, and anyone that enters do it at their own risk. NRDS seems not to work to well since i think IAC tried it and now have to have a NBSI purge of their area due to piracy and infiltration.
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Pezzle
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:02:00 -
[60]
NRDS works just fine. Added risks, rewards and responsibility.
CVA maintains NRDS and will continue to do so in the face of meatsacks, clone jacks and other forms of spies.
IAC policy has been reported many times as NRDS. They have occassional periods of NBSI in their space for their own reasons.
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