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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:08:00 -
[1]
In 0.0, I understand the emotional reason for an NBSI policy, and in some cases, I endorse it. If you see a known pirate corp in local, shoot at them. If you see a neutral battleship warp into your belt, prepare your guns. If a neutral person is in your outpost system, blow them the hell up. If ANYONE in a NPC corp is in 0.0, by all means, send them back to Ryddinjorn.
But, if some random neutral that you have no prior engagement with shows up in a random system in 0.0, do you have to shoot them? Is there no room for diplomacy? No chat in local to get a little info on their current goals? What if you have a common enemy? Sure, you could loot their hauler on general purposes just because you can, and they might have some nice loot. But would it not be wiser to talk them into sharing their loot with you, so that you both may grow? Does not every single current alliance have enough targets without starting a new war with every neutral they see?
Would it be possible, for an alliance to be truly neutral as ISS once was? I know that an alliance or corp cannot go without shooting things every once in a while, nor can they go without making friends with someone's enemy, therefore becoming guilty by association. But could they break out the NAPmobile and just be a purely defensive industrial corp in 0.0 with enough militant friends to insure their own safety? Sort of like Trust claimed to be(not saying they were or weren't neutral), but with more friends? Something like a neutral trade hub, almost NPClike, where the other alliances don't mind enemies docking there because it just keeps the fun pew pew action going due to the availability of ships outside of their own sovereign areas, and relieves some of the strain from their own logistics division. One where the alliance that controls the system doesn't get involved in any battles that take place in their system, except one's that threaten the sovereignty of their own system. I'd like to know how many people would shoot at them just because they were not blue, even though their record of neutrality were proven. I'd also like to know how many alliances would help them if violence came their way, just for the fact that the alliance would always be providing support for the PVP community.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:01:00 -
[2]
Claiming/controlling space takes a lot of effort, building and maintaining or defending infrastructure even more so. Random people coming in freeloading on your stuff and running whenever danger comes around the corner are very much disliked.
Then theres of course spies and alt chars doing logistics. -----
$Forum + $Bob + $Devs == $ForumPostCount+++++; |
Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:25:00 -
[3]
Who dislikes the pew pew?
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Badhands
Gallente Badgator Ltd
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Posted - 2007.02.27 00:00:00 -
[4]
I believe Syndicate and Outer Ring are as close as it gets.
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Nhaz
Pyrrhus Sicarii
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Posted - 2007.02.27 04:46:00 -
[5]
whats to discuss?
If its not Blue. Shoot it. this isn't for emotional reasons. this is for practical reasons.
the best reason being pretty simple. No identification time required. no time wasted figuring out if the Non blue is hostile or not. its simple. _____________________________________________
It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you! |
Kovid
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.27 05:14:00 -
[6]
NBSI is a system of control for enclosurist territorialists. To think people can "own" space is silly. Space holds infinite resources that anyone can enjoy. And NBSI is used by groups who can not use all the space they occupy since they can't be everywhere at once. People with initiative and a little ability can operate in space that others would claim as their own. It's their own fault if they were not there first. The people who complain are often freeloaders who hunt or mine all day and balk at someone in "their" system and whine to their friends when they get blown up instead of taking responsibility for themselves.
There are NRDS, "Not Red, Don't Shoot", alliances out there. However the alliance I am in, The Star Fraction, does not claim any systems. And I don't think they ever will by the nature of the alliance dogma. There are other NRDS claiming alliances, even those that hold sovereignty but I can't speak for them since I don't know how well other people enforce their policies . I can tell you I treat NRDS very seriously.
If you allow a more lenient policy like NRDS and let people dock in 0.0 stations trade can flow outside of empire without convoys or carrier runs. Trade hubs in empire and low sec could be less important. 0.0 market prices would drop for alliances that did so. No longer would you have to pay 50-100k for a shuttle or something else stupid. Or just having a market stocked for that matter. The argument that neutral bring no benefit is countered by the market they bring to the area which is huge. Plus it brings people to you that you would never have met or shot.
And there are variations of NRDS. I have heard of NRDS claiming alliances who don't beleive in freespace. Apparently they will not shoot you as long as you are not using their resources. But this is hersey and I wil not vouch for this. Unfortunately NRDS is a next step of evolution. The fact we are not there yet is clear and is why it has not taken hold yet. But I will continue to fight for it and remove the memetics that contain NBSI.
---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ | ---------------------------------- |
Anaximander Monk
Mandala Group
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Posted - 2007.02.27 05:19:00 -
[7]
Neutrality and Pacifism are not necessarily synonymous. You could even consider roving pirates without political affiliation as 'neutral'.
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The Comatorium
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Posted - 2007.02.27 05:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kovid NBSI is a system of control for enclosurist territorialists. To think people can "own" space is silly. Space holds infinite resources that anyone can enjoy.
NBSI is not only about controlling Space. Knowing your foe is far from a luxe and if Neutral passes by and get popped... well its too bad.
Whoever have lived in 0.0 know the menace of Neutrals or Red spots in Local. in NPC space you cannot know who is there for dancing or just passes by. So you shoot and you guess after that.
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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 06:21:00 -
[9]
Okay, Kovid is saying exactly what I'm thinking. The reason to not always shoot every neutral is simple. For dimplomacy and trade. I know there are certain systems that must be protected from neutrals and hostiles and maybe even some blues at all costs, but what I'm saying is like, that's the military zone of your claimed space, protected on all sides by your military. But at the edge of your claimed space, why not have a market outpost where you don't shoot neutrals, unless you know they are a threat. Of course it's a little risky, but think of the rewards. Your industrial sector would go NUTS, if you are close enough to empire to bring traders from empire to spend all their iskies in your market, as well as fulfill those insane buy orders, and the lacking named items market in your region. I know im not the only person who notices that no matter where you live, if you want some named items of another race than that of the pirates you're fighting, you're pretty much SOL. The competition aspect of this place has always been more than just ship versus ship combat. But it seems like the industry and trade sector is still stuck in empire. I know right now may not be the time for so much extra friendly trade with this Royal Rumble going on between so many factions, but even so, trade between even enemies would do nothing but boost both parties equally.
Of course my idea of a neutral alliance that let neutrals dock at the station would eventually turn into a regular alliance with blue's and red's, but the difference would be that most neutrals would be treated as blue until further notice. I'm not sayin oh, go park your ship in an asteroid belt and try to chat with a guy from a corp called PWNALLMINERZZZ, I'm saying if you see a neutral in local, chat with him and find out why he's there, check the bio, corp, and alliance description. If it looks like he could just be visiting your region for trade purposes or exploring, let it slide. I'm saying, why is the only regular market style trade that happens in 0.0 from one alliance member to another member of the same alliance? Why are only designated diplomats the only people in an alliance charged with keeping the peace? Shouldn't it be everyone's responsibility?
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Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 09:45:00 -
[10]
The CVA does not operate NBSI in its space.
Nor does Ushra'khan and I also believe IAC have an NRDS policy.
The CVA allows neutrals to enter its space and hunt Sansha's and mine to their hearts content.
We do restrict the construction of POS for strategic reasons, although neutrals who have been around long enough and have established a good reputation with us can be granted POS rights.
We do not charge rent to neutrals who use our space.
We give everyone entering our area the benefit of the doubt. This occasionally can be painful when someone proves unworthy and goes on a rampage however in 90% of cases neutrals entering Amarrian 0.0 tend to be responsible citizens looking to earn some ISK.
Those who do transgress our no piracy rules get added to our KOS list forever. Their only way off is if they make an apology and pay compensation.
Managing NRDS is not easy, it is certainly not a policy for the lazy. It takes effort to manage a proper KOS list and disseminate details not only to your own alliance but to other friends and trustworthy neutrals in your region.
However NRDS does have some unique benefits:
1) Intel gathering. Neutrals using our space often provide us with useful forewarning on enemy incursions. This is not 100% reliable and the information is sometimes sketchy at best but in many cases it allows us to either gather a fleet to counter the threat - or get safe - depending on the size of the incoming).
2) Economics. Lots of neutrals living in your space creates a market. If you are the established alliance in the area it is highly likely that your industrialists will be well positioned to supply the needs of local neutrals.
3) Defence. You can never rely on neutrals to defend your space for you - indeed you cannot even rely on their gratitude - however over time some neutrals who live in your space will develop such a stake in the area that it is in their interest to defend against piratical incursions. This may be in the form of intel (as listed above) but often the more PvP focused neutrals will actively help if you are willing to cultivate relations with them. This leads on to the next benefit.
4) Recruitment. If you have a lot of neutrals living in your area you do over time get to know who are worthy and who are just parasites living off your protection. You will over time get to know who the 'worthy' are - who you can rely on in a fight, who you can rely on to provide solid intel, who you can rely on to take the initiative and mount anti-piracy operations of their own! The 'worthy' tend to make good recruits. Why recruit a corporation that you have little hard knowledge of when you can recruit corporations that have a track record.
The CVA never recruits any corporations which have not lived in our space and contributed to its defence for at least six months often more - and as a result we know our corporations are solid and wont quit when the **** hits the fan. It also means they (generally) understand our ethos and they way we operate before they join...
In my own opinion NBSI is a policy for the lazy. It is possible to operate NRDS if you are willing to put the effort in and are willing to put up with the occasional ****s who simply exploit your protection and hospitality... I believe the benefits outweigh the disadvantages...
Of course we also have our own roleplay reasons in extending Amarrian law and order to 0.0...
------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
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Tobiron
Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 11:43:00 -
[11]
Speaking as a previously neutral status type, I can confirm that having an open skies policy is a far more beneficial in the long run. Originally I found Providence by accident while trying to find my long lost half sister who I share an Amarr father with. Once I realised that I could enjoy the benefits of 0.0 Space with out the fear of being fried by the locals I started to invest in the area, setting up trade agreements and generally settling down. Over time things have evolved and I am now very proud to be a member of CVA. In my time in the region we have had many instances where hostile forces make concerted efforts to pirate or be a general pain in the back side. There have also been elements of subterfuge and espionage that have led to conflict in the area. However, on the whole, things work because of the inclusion of neutral/blue parties that have a vested interest in the area.
If you want to be totally selfish you can say that making a little margin out of a massive open market is much better than a large margin out of a closed small one. Also, I really donĘt think that having NBSI really benefits security because if you have something someone wants badly, they will find a way to get Intel with out resorting to NPC corp shuttles.
By the way, if you think that NRDS means less pew pew then you are very wrong. It just means that you will be up against faction fitted tech II ships rather than shuttles.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.27 13:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hardin
The CVA never recruits any corporations which have not lived in our space and contributed to its defence for at least six months often more - and as a result we know our corporations are solid and wont quit when the **** hits the fan. It also means they (generally) understand our ethos and they way we operate before they join...
Although not directly NBSI related, I like this part. _______ I came, I read, I lol'ed. |
Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.02.27 15:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 27/02/2007 15:18:50
From the perspective of low sec as opposed to 0.0, my alliance employs Not Red Don't Shoot.
If you have pirate written all over your bio, you get set to red very fast, but shooting people just because you don't know who they are doesn't make you any friends, especially if those people might be your new neighbours that you just don't know yet
Also living in the south we have a BBAI (big alliance avoid it) policy, so get shot by BoB or FIX and best to just leave it at that and call it an unfortunate loss. But mostly they don't care for locals from what i can see anyway so engagements are rare
Khaldari KPA Recruiting |
Kali Ananda
Minmatar Deep Space Consortium Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:14:00 -
[14]
I welcome the opertunity to kill and shoot anyone, anywhere. Kali Ananda DPSC Director
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The Comatorium
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 18:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kali Ananda I welcome the opertunity to kill and shoot anyone, anywhere.
HOO RAH! If we dont do that itd be as stupid as bringin concord out of empire.
Out there it works on the Predator-Prey rule, the jungle laws.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.27 19:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tobiron By the way, if you think that NRDS means less pew pew then you are very wrong. It just means that you will be up against faction fitted tech II ships rather than shuttles.
Despite the numbers of targets NBSI leads to weakness in some people.
---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ | ---------------------------------- |
Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:27:00 -
[17]
I think it's a true sign of power to be able to not even worry about neutrals in your system. In my opinion, it's like NBSI is code red, Defcon 1, when the **** is hitting the fan. Of course, right now theres always someone at least farting in your general direction if you live in 0.0.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:53:00 -
[18]
NBSI or NRDS.
The reasons behind NBSI are quite clear. Clear and simple rules of engagement help your pilots in determining wether the encountered pilot is a potential threat, scout or perhaps helping some cap ships cyno in. On a further note, quite a few alliances/corps practice NBSI in all of 0.0, not just the space they claim sovereignity over.
NRDS. Will propably help trade and will bring more residents to the given area. However, it is rather problematic due to it enabling neutral scouts mapping an area ready for an ivading force. Probing defences etc. And most directors/ceos with diplomatic experience usually know who to contact for standings to get friendly access to pretty much any given area. Thus, I belive the balance of the risk profit ratio hangs heavily in favour of the NBSI policies.
___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Dirf Olep
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Posted - 2007.02.28 03:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hardin The CVA does not operate NBSI in its space.
(Most of reply is not quoted due to text limit)
I agree with the above, and not just because I live in their space. ^_^
Ratting is a way of life for me, and because of all the neutral traffic selling makes me alot of money. And what doesn't sell is reprocessed and sold for even more profit. Not to mention that a good amount of the neutrals take up arms to help, especially when in the same system.
On a downside though it's a real pain in the but to feel safe with so many neutrals. You always have to read bios, and ask intel on peoples bios that are lacking. Or if there corp name sounds hostile. Although 10 times out of 10 a hostile who is close enough to see you is already locking or running. (As in the same belt or gate) I've got a few killmails myself from BOB and random pirates trying to do there thing.
Yes, the NRDS policy is abit tedious. But in the end, I think you really do gain more from it. Besides... If you really want some PvP there is almost the entire rest of the game with 0.0 NBSI policy. Sooooo, if there not blue ^_^ you better darn well be shootin, lol.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.28 04:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Laboratus NBSI or NRDS.
The reasons behind NBSI are quite clear. Clear and simple rules of engagement help your pilots in determining wether the encountered pilot is a potential threat, scout or perhaps helping some cap ships cyno in. On a further note, quite a few alliances/corps practice NBSI in all of 0.0, not just the space they claim sovereignity over.
NRDS. Will propably help trade and will bring more residents to the given area. However, it is rather problematic due to it enabling neutral scouts mapping an area ready for an ivading force. Probing defences etc. And most directors/ceos with diplomatic experience usually know who to contact for standings to get friendly access to pretty much any given area. Thus, I belive the balance of the risk profit ratio hangs heavily in favour of the NBSI policies.
Your risk profit ratio does not include spies in alliances. This is a plain and simple fact of every alliance of size greater than one. Every major alliance fears the shadowy spy in their ranks and can do very little to nothing about them. They force them to treat their masses different, limit information among its own members and so one. This comes to the point of paranoia where operations like freighter convoys are announced the day of the operation and lack support because no one knew about it. NBSI didn't matter in the convoy attack because by the time they knew there was a "not blue" it was too late for the ambush as ships appeared in space en masse suddenly.
This is one case and there are many more. NRDS keeps you on your toes. If you see a neutral, you make a contingency plan on the spot. And yes you can have spies in NRDS alliances. But NBSI does not stop mapping out of areas or leaking of intelligence. It does not stop en masse ambushes. Probing defences can be seen in NRDS alliances when people spot large numbers of ships traveling. It's not like an NRDS alliance can't communicate to each other. It's not like they can't see 5-10 ships that are neutral suddenly warp into system by system all belonging to the same alliance or corp. They stick out just like in NBSI if you set your standings.
The balance of risk vs profit hangs heavily in favor of NRDS. New things are frightening to try for some.
It's not like it's never been done as people have said here. So the proof is there.
But memetics are burned into humanity, scaring people into thinking freespace and NRDS is bad.
---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ | ---------------------------------- |
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Plan Neun
Caldari Ganja Unlimited CORE.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 09:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Plan Neun on 28/02/2007 09:34:37
Originally by: Qolde In 0.0, I understand the emotional reason for an NBSI policy, and in some cases, I endorse it. If you see a known pirate corp in local, shoot at them. If you see a neutral battleship warp into your belt, prepare your guns. If a neutral person is in your outpost system, blow them the hell up. If ANYONE in a NPC corp is in 0.0, by all means, send them back to Ryddinjorn.
But, if some random neutral that you have no prior engagement with shows up in a random system in 0.0, do you have to shoot them? Is there no room for diplomacy? No chat in local to get a little info on their current goals? What if you have a common enemy? Sure, you could loot their hauler on general purposes just because you can, and they might have some nice loot. But would it not be wiser to talk them into sharing their loot with you, so that you both may grow? Does not every single current alliance have enough targets without starting a new war with every neutral they see?
Would it be possible, for an alliance to be truly neutral as ISS once was? I know that an alliance or corp cannot go without shooting things every once in a while, nor can they go without making friends with someone's enemy, therefore becoming guilty by association. But could they break out the NAPmobile and just be a purely defensive industrial corp in 0.0 with enough militant friends to insure their own safety? Sort of like Trust claimed to be(not saying they were or weren't neutral), but with more friends? Something like a neutral trade hub, almost NPClike, where the other alliances don't mind enemies docking there because it just keeps the fun pew pew action going due to the availability of ships outside of their own sovereign areas, and relieves some of the strain from their own logistics division. One where the alliance that controls the system doesn't get involved in any battles that take place in their system, except one's that threaten the sovereignty of their own system. I'd like to know how many people would shoot at them just because they were not blue, even though their record of neutrality were proven. I'd also like to know how many alliances would help them if violence came their way, just for the fact that the alliance would always be providing support for the *snip* community.
Please remember that CAS is an In-Character forum - Karass Sayfo
Ganja Unlimited follow the NBSI rules strictly in the areas where we have commitments. In other areas we use common sence, so no we dont shoot at everyone and everything if not agroed. The reason why we do this has something to do with our corpname and our image. We dont find it natural that a corp with a corpname like ours behave exeptional agressive towards neutrals.
Plan Neun |
mamolian
Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: mamolian on 28/02/2007 22:08:35 After practicing NBSI and NRDS, Ideally I prefer the NDRS approach.. although trying to keep the more PVP styled players entertained, and focused on abiding by NDRS policy.. is often more trouble than its worth.. Let em shoot each other, and let the cloning vats sort it out.
-------------------------------
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.03.01 01:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: mamolian Edited by: mamolian on 28/02/2007 22:08:35 After practicing NBSI and NRDS, Ideally I prefer the NDRS approach.. although trying to keep the more PVP styled players entertained, and focused on abiding by NDRS policy.. is often more trouble than its worth.. Let em shoot each other, and let the cloning vats sort it out.
PVP styled players?
Well NRDS can be as hostile as the corporation that sets the standings wants it to be. And then there are CONCORD sanctioned wars. The thing is with so many NBSI people shooting NRDS minorities, it gives NRDS practically the same opportunities as NBSI. The thing is with NRDS the people who deserve to get shot, get shot.
---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ | ---------------------------------- |
Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 04:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Plan Neun
Ganja Unlimited Plan Neun
Awesome. Why do you think I'm wearing shades?
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Jereth Ravyn
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.02 10:33:00 -
[25]
NRDS only really works when hostiles get reported accurately and standings are set quickly. On an alliance-wide scale, this is very difficult to manage, and as was stated before, NBSI is a much quicker and simpler form of threat identification.
Personally, I feel that ISS's former NRDS policy was the catalyst for the chain of events that have led us to the current state of affairs. Not to bore you all with ISS history or do any chest thumping, but I beleive all NRDS alliances can learn something from studying the ISS.
Sadly, NBSI will be the best policy until the political climate of EVE changes.
...so in summary: if you dont like pew pew pew, stay out of 0.0, and if that bothers you... go play WoW or something
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Nautark Mniachei
The Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.03.02 14:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jereth Ravyn
Sadly, NBSI will be the best policy until the political climate of EVE changes.
And how do you expect the political climate to change if you stick to NBSI?
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tost
Viper Squad Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.03.02 14:36:00 -
[27]
K.A.O.S 4tw
Kill All On Sight !
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.03.02 16:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jereth Ravyn NRDS only really works when hostiles get reported accurately and standings are set quickly. On an alliance-wide scale, this is very difficult to manage, and as was stated before, NBSI is a much quicker and simpler form of threat identification.
Personally, I feel that ISS's former NRDS policy was the catalyst for the chain of events that have led us to the current state of affairs. Not to bore you all with ISS history or do any chest thumping, but I beleive all NRDS alliances can learn something from studying the ISS.
Sadly, NBSI will be the best policy until the political climate of EVE changes.
...so in summary: if you dont like pew pew pew, stay out of 0.0, and if that bothers you... go play WoW or something
I value the opinion of ISS people for their run at neutrality, but I think there has always been something amongst them that has caused problems. They always have seemed to have problems with their system as people have always claimed for quite a long time. Without being a part of them I really can't say what it could be or if it was speculation and purely outside forces blaming them incorrectly.
But I have run NRDS personally in 0.0 and empire for a couple months only after living in 0.0 NBSI for a long time. I have had no trouble with the policy. In those two months in the busy areas of empire I lost one ship due to a neutral and me falling asleep at the wheel in empire. That alliance was then set to red and have paid the price many times over for their hostility. It's a simple process. In empire most people are just going about their business getting one place to another. In 0.0 I assume anyone neutral could be hostile and place myself in a situation I can handle. Plenty of times I have been tanked along with my mates that we did not shoot them in 0.0 when we had the upper hand. They were suprised we didn't. It's simple. You are neutral or not red, I don't shoot.
NBSI and NRDS you CAN assume neutrals are hostile temporarly. NRDS just makes you not fire on them until they confirm they actually are. I've been suprised once by NRDS and lost a frigate while exploring.
Play WoW???
---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ | ---------------------------------- |
The Yzzerman
Mortis Angelus Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 17:00:00 -
[29]
I can confirm that providence is a great are to hunt in And the loot is good aswell Cva people are nice and friendly!
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Jereth Ravyn
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.03 00:30:00 -
[30]
I guess really the point I am trying to make is that both NBSI and NRDS can work... NBSI relies on quickly setting friends to blue, and NRDS relies on quickly setting hostiles to red. If it takes a corp/alliance too long to manage their standings, then it won't matter if they use NBSI/NRDS... its all the same really, except that in that scenario, the NRDS organization might lose some ships, and the NBSI organization might kill some "innocent" ships.
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