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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Grighory Kotovski
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:30:24 -
[61] - Quote
Personally I kind of thought this Daily Objective thing was mostly geared to benefit NEW BROS.
To make the game feel like it was a bit easier to progress in the early goings where statistically it's been a falling off point - been tough to keep new people interested in the game.
So what about the possibility of taking this same feature and putting a CAP on it?
IE: This Daily Objective of killing a NPC Rat anywhere in the game granting 10k SP only is available DAILY until you reach a certain SP Limit. Then the Objective Changes to be more difficult, maybe the reward gets a little better or something too?
For me this feature wasn't really significant; but for a New Bro, 10k SP is quite alot to help you get through alot of those Skills that take less than a Day to train to help you get to the longer ones quicker.
At any rate, I'm sure CCP had a good reason to ditch it, but I wonder if maybe there's a better way to tweek the feature and keep it. |
Dreamer Targaryen
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:37:35 -
[62] - Quote
Meh, I thought it was a great idea to give (especially new) players the feeling of being able to DO something to get their skills trained up faster. Especially if you start this game, there are month of "un-fun", but necessary skills in front of you (e.g. fitting, navigation) and knowing that there is nothing else you can do than wait (or invest your little isk into injectors instead of ships) is utterly frustrating.
That being said, the daily gave me a reason to login every day with every single account. I am 100% certain that I wouldn't have done that without the incentive of the daily. Since you didn't detect a change in your login-behaviour-analysis, I am probably the exception. Besides that, I hope you did take into consideration, that maybe certain groups of players had less of a reason to log into the game at all the last month and that might have influenced the login-behaviour, too. |
Super Hana
Elite Spaceship Corp
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:41:14 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind.
A wise man once said that data analysts do things like predicting that winter will come based on internet searches for flu.
As absurd as that example is, I feel it is reasonably analogous to this situation - it was a quirky exercise which revealed information (about player habits) which was already readily available. Who would've thought that people who weren't planning to log in would not log in? I find it hard to believe that this is extremely useful data that was worth the negative feelings this could create in the unwitting test subjec- err, players.
Logging in is already incentivized as it is. One might've argued that in regards to skill training (as opposed to other areas of the game), there was no reason to log in except to add skills to queue, but injectors changed this - one can now acquire SP faster if he can make ISK for injectors faster. So there's no two ways about this - players already have a lot of incentive to log in for a number of reasons, and I don't see why a "good job, you logged in" mechanic was necessary. (I will, however, commend the impact of the daily opportunity on quickening the progression of new players to some degree. That part was an upside, even if a small one. I personally liked the existence of an alternative free source of SP, because the new player experience is still very bothersome, even with all the rights step taken to fix it (starting skills rebalance was a good one).
I think you would have more luck with increasing player activity if you poured effort into designing fresh content and mechanics that are compatible with the game and are there to stay, rather than permanently testing the waters with mass-produced, temporary little tests that have little long-term effect.
Positive examples of fresh, in-depth additions would be PI, FW, Incursions. Less effective examples would be Clone Soldier Tags, Mordu rats and sites. You can see by looking at both the good and the bad examples that the complex, in-depth ones are the ones that occupied the attention of players, while the simple ones comprised just of new NPCs following old mechanics are not as popular.
Try to make more of the complex ones, and fewer of the browser game "please visit the site daily so we get add revenue" type ones. They don't fit with EVE even if most of us will lap it up for in-game benefit.
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Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1752
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:41:21 -
[64] - Quote
Now delete jump fatigue for a month and see the results. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3538
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:47:55 -
[65] - Quote
good decision. the only positive aspect about the feature was "free additional SP". But the way it was implemented just did not fit to eve.
The game should be good enough to make players log in, not artificial daily pickup rewards. I am looking forward to the serpentis event and those after that.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Azure and Argent
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
17
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:52:15 -
[66] - Quote
Awesome. Now the next step is listening to the players telling you what was going to happen before you implement changes so you can save time and dev resources for useful stuff. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
84
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:54:13 -
[67] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: Thanks for the communication. I can confirm that your results match my experience. I certainly undocked more, and undocked more alts that normally rarely leave station, but it didn't encourage me to log-in on a day when I was not planning to play Eve. There are already enough rewards in this game tied to activity that an additional SP reward did not change the balance for me at least.
Best of luck on your work to develop and alternative approach to accomplish your development goals, and I appreciate the rapid turn around time on deployment and un-deployment of this trial feature.
Same for me. I am a bit sad at losing it as it was a good way to pad some Alt SP but it will not change my will to log or subscribe.
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Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:54:28 -
[68] - Quote
This is highly diappointing.
I hope this is only a temporary hiatus in this. Even if it doesn't increase log ins that much, it is nice to give a reward to those who do log in. And it's been most helpful in advancing skills.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2626
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:57:50 -
[69] - Quote
Good riddance
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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nezroy
Nice Clan
13
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:05:03 -
[70] - Quote
Since this is going away, I hope CCP will look at adding a "10k SP injector restricted to <5M SP characters" item to the game and have it be part of the reward tracks on their new event system (the Shadow thingy and future similar content). I saw a ton of positive feedback from new players about the incentive/motivation of that SP bump, and how helpful it was in their early process to be able to just jumpstart a few skills here and there. |
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Lagartija Nick
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
10
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:05:51 -
[71] - Quote
Please don't remove this feature. I think you guys are missing how powerful just the idea that there is a tiny daily skillpoint boost in the game can be. People that haven't played the game in years that I know have expressed interest in returning simply because of the inclusion of this daily 10k skillpoint bonus for playing the game and logging on.
It was a good idea, and really the short data collection period is only givng you an idea of how it is affecting your current playerbase, not the people who are just learning about it who have yet to subscribe or resubscribe. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3498
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:09:05 -
[72] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:I didn't use the feature, heck, I can't even remember to keep a training queue going half the time :P But what I love about the OP is that it shows us a delightfully flexible and experimental mindset about game features from CCP and that is just wonderful to see. Seems to bode well for the ongoing possibility of keeping things fresh with new stuff being popped in here and there, then retired and replaced with something else new a bit later. The amount of stuff that's been changed/added to the game over the last two years is really staggering!
I am not here to say I told you so but to applaud the willingness to assess and make changes when something does not work out as planned. Especially to publicly state that it was not quite what you hoped for and drag it back to the drawing board.
Well done
Oh, defender missiles . . . .please? Take them out back and BOOM.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Holker Rubin
EVE University Ivy League
22
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:09:34 -
[73] - Quote
At first I was against it, just like so many people in here, however; it did make me log into my alt and I actually had fun playing and progressing with him and now I am going to sorely miss this feature.
I really hope it will return! |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
302
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:10:23 -
[74] - Quote
nezroy wrote:Since this is going away, I hope CCP will look at adding a "10k SP injector restricted to <5M SP characters" item to the game and have it be part of the reward tracks on their new event system (the Shadow thingy and future similar content). I saw a ton of positive feedback from new players about the incentive/motivation of that SP bump, and how helpful it was in their early process to be able to just jumpstart a few skills here and there. This could actually work. Maybe. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
45
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:11:50 -
[75] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:I liked it. It was two free injectors per month worth of skillpoints.
And you wonder why it is getting removed?..
The problem is that people (like me) will have all of their alts stuck in a school system, logging in and sending one round into a rat then logging off.
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Planet Busta
Outlaws of New Eden Salt the Earth
1
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:14:13 -
[76] - Quote
Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D |
Minty Aroma
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:14:20 -
[77] - Quote
Doh, recently remapped a character thinking I could get the off remap stuff with the SP from the daily. Guess not now.
I guess the number of logons was higher but the concurrent people online wasn't, probably due to people logging in an alt then off again. Another thing to consider is that Warhammer Total War was released on the same day, therefore you'll have lost 90% of Test! |
Milam Dobbins
Can't Compile
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:15:55 -
[78] - Quote
What kind of % were you noticing?
Keep in mind that daily login incentives should affect login rates by like ~5% or something, they don't seem to be drastic but it is pretty significant in the long run. The other thing is that daily login incentives are most effective when they exist from the beginning of a players experience because it builds a habit for them - you should be looking at new players almost exclusively, and how the incentive affects them specifically...the incentive could be brought down so it only affects pilots under a few million SP and you would probably get the vast majority of the benefit. |
Sykes Makar
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:18:06 -
[79] - Quote
They should've expanded on that and turned it into some sort of 'weekly opportunities', where you need to finish a certain amount of tasks until you get 'cashed out'. Lorewise, it could be funded by Concord/Empire Factions/Dubious Contacts to keep the order/mayhem in the system going.
That could be partly based on the security level of the system, with 0.5 to 1.0 is mostly ratting, -0.1 to -1.0 is more PvP focused while 0.4 to 0.0 is a mix of both, along with Faction Warfare squeezed inbetween. Commerce and Industry tasks should be available regardless of security level. |
Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:21:43 -
[80] - Quote
Planet Busta wrote:Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D
I suspect they will drop.
I for one noticed an increase in activity, more people around since this was included. So I question the metrics. Even people in my corp were logging in for the daily reward, and many times sticking around for awhile afterwards.
I can't help but feel there is an ulterior motive.
One month hardly seems like an adequate amount of time to not only see the long term effect of this, but to see if those who objected to it came around to seeing its merit or at least not being so hostile toward it. Some here have alrady expressed that sentiment; initially being opposed to it, but then finding it a nice feature to have.
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
45
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:21:52 -
[81] - Quote
Blitz Hacker wrote:I think it's semi tragic it's being removed tbh. Where as 10k skill points is 5 hours train time give or take, with a day 1 newbro pilot 5 hours is an assload of sp for them.. specifically to get them to train those support skills no newbro wants to grind out to atleast level 3 before flying around.
*shrug*
More pissed about the IGB going, or atleast not some ability to add another browser in its place, so much functionality is gone with no IGB.. Dotlan and/or Tripwire becomes a minor nightmare, and being solo monitor swapping out in hostile space is a big deal.
I won't cry over the 10k skill points but if you guys are looking for some metric to change you might wanna mention it. Otherwise it's a small bonus that was great to knock some time off some of the more lengthy skills later in game (jdc 5)
For new players its probably more around 6-8 hours (so a HUGE boost). Those that burn their remaps straight away and plan directly for those remaps might only save 4-5 hours.. But the biggest joy this would have had for "new" players is that if they save it up then they can "train" for the skills that they are mapped too, and then use these free ones on the skills that they are not mapped too. Early days you need to remap a lot so I would say the first two months or so players would benefit from this the most.
Perhaps "training" agents should give out sp/reward missions per day for new players.. Perhaps it could go down based on the days played.. 25k on day 1, 15k on day 30, 5k on day 60, nothing on day 90..
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
302
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:24:26 -
[82] - Quote
Planet Busta wrote:Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Active phase of Goon War is over, "content" conflicts are not that exciting. Citadel land rush is falling off too. And it's summer - time to see some sun. |
The Farf
Public Safety Bureau
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:24:40 -
[83] - Quote
I don't know if you guys just didn't notice or what, but they fully intend on keeping this mechanic around. The second post from rise in this thread ends with
Quote:we will certainly have similar features coming, we just want them to be more integrated with with the rest of our work and be a little more robust overall. So again, it's coming back, just in a different way. All the people hooting and hollering about "being right that it wouldn't do anything" aren't exactly on the debate-winning side of the fence.
My guess is that they will make you work a little harder, and then maybe up the SP reward in correlation. Maybe something like, your first mission of the day from one of the main factions will give you the SP. At first this seems just as dull and meaningless, but maybe it will be just enough motivation to fit up a ship for missions. I mean, sometimes I'm just too lazy to even look up a fit online, let alone gather the modules. But now there's an SP reward behind that first mission. I've completed it, but now I also have a ship completely ready to do this type and level of mission, the one I chose to do in the first place... maybe a few more wouldn't hurt for some extra money?
And with this method, you could even take it a step further, to varying degrees of player-base reaction, of course (I know I'll get hated on for even mentioning this, but I should remind you before you continue reading that skill injectors haven't gone anywhere, and already complete this goal in another way, so it's not like what I'm about to suggest is a new concept, just implemented in a different way). But, here we go: You could also make it so that only mission givers in hisec actually reward the boost. This does several things to the game, obviously, which I'll highlight the ones that come to mind easily next.
First is that this gives noobs (yet another) 1-up against vets. As most vets probably live in null, with a lot not having the security to come back to hisec, let alone the standing with agents to get missions, they're out of luck without a grind first. This sounds kind of terrible at first, but CCP already obviously likes this mechanic because as I said before, it is implemented even more helplessly via skill injectors. At least with this idea, they can choose to grind to come back and get their SP if they so desire. But I don't see that happening. Instead, noobs that don't know any better will feel like maybe they do have a chance to "catch up" to the veterans around the game, since even today one of the most prevalent questions from noobs is still "is it too late to play EVE"? Of course we know the answer is no, and we SAY no to them, but our answers fall on deaf ears. Obviously, an in game mechanic like I just outlined - that works in their favor is not just a word, it is a proof. They might finally get that feeling they have a chance, and maybe this is what they need. The feeling that they have something... anything... as a leg up. Something they can actually work towards, which even gets them to fit a ship and do a mission.
And this is a great opportunity to squash a certain other crowd of people that I know will reply with such: "Well, maybe now that we have skill injectors, we don't need yet another mechanic that helps noobs?" Well firstly and arguably, this daily was already doing exactly that since 10,000sp matters proportionally more when you have less sp to start with. But it does not end there. I personally think that skill injectors are the failure here, not the daily. With their massive cost, skill injectors are a fine wine that 90% of noobs, if not more, will never taste. And it's ironically hilarious, when you consider how they work for people with differing amounts of sp. But let's continue...
Second is that for people that don't have friends yet, it keeps them engaged with doing at least something in the game, that's more than killing a rat. It might poke their mind with intrigue at just the right amount to get the gears really spinning. It may give them them both the motivation and feeling that they can do this, and they might choose a career and start planning how they would do it. Figure out how much time they need, money, and feel like they actually have a chance. But, one more thing I can see people saying at this point, is that it might lock them in to highsec. Maybe they will feel like leaving that bonus behind just isn't worth it. I can't say I disagree, but I also can't agree.
First of all, if the daily is working (this time) and people actually play a bit more, they will have more time to meet someone they think they can trust. I can't remember how I met the first person I thought I could trust in EVE back in 2008, and that would be nice right now, oh well. But even if you're only new-ish, I'd still have to argue in favor of the daily. A lot of the people that know a bit more about the game, but still pretty new, might feel that skill points are the true limiter of what you can do (and they're right). This would help get them out hisec actually, not keep them in it. And what I think the best part is, is that this doesnt at all affect the time-proven advice to give any noob that isn't sure what they should do in game: join a corp! Take your newfound SP and do something for a corp, probably in low or null, and stop waiting for content to come to you. Because they even have a ship already fitted from missions, they can now get right to business learning about how much they hate fleet doctrines.
In conclusion, I think that on the surface this seems like just another gimmic that we would see from any other game. But when you think about it and dig deeper, because of EVE's nature, there are a ton of implications for when, where, and how you implement something. But this should not be new news, and that is exactly why I am confused about your decision making, CCP. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8135
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:28:20 -
[84] - Quote
Planet Busta wrote:Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D
They already are, and newbean signups have been starting to taper-off as well.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Bear Templar
iMine Industries The Five
15
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:28:26 -
[85] - Quote
Minty Aroma wrote:Doh, recently remapped a character thinking I could get the off remap stuff with the SP from the daily. Guess not now.
I guess the total number of logons was higher but the concurrent people online wasn't, probably due to people logging in an alt then off again. Another thing to consider is that Warhammer Total War was released on the same day, therefore you'll have lost 90% of Test!
This and Overwatch!
For me, I was logging in more - but once the rats were killed and nothing was actually going on in-game i just logged off. Whilst i did enjoy getting 10k free SP per day, i think the actual issue for me not staying logged in as content.
I'm the more industrial type of player, with an interest in WH's and exploration too (yes, i've dabbled in pvp, FW and incursions) but for me, the areas i get most of my interest out of are just....*shrugs*... they're not keeping me looged in like the used to.
If a fish weighs 1 Kilogram plus half its own weight, how much does it weigh? (It's not 1.5kg btw)
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IcedGuardian
Assisted Suicide Services Epicenter.
2
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:30:55 -
[86] - Quote
Its like giving a fat kid a cake, and then taking it away soon after the first bite |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8135
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:34:31 -
[87] - Quote
IcedGuardian wrote:Its like giving a fat kid a cake, and then taking it away soon after the first bite
The first taste is always free...
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
83
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:48:20 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Good day!
I'm here to let you know that on Tuesday, in the 118.6 release, we are planning to remove the recurring opportunity "Thrill of the Hunt".
Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE. I can't go into too much detail about results but I thought you guys might like to know a bit about what did happen after it launched. The biggest conclusions we can draw so far (though we are still gathering and analyzing data) are that recurring opportunities did have a significant effect on player activity in game. We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind. This is really important for us and by collecting solid data with a fast and simple feature like recurring opportunities we will be able to make better decisions as we work on larger things in the future, such as the Shadow of the Serpent event, which begins on Tuesday in the 118.6 release.
I want to thank all of you for taking the time to talk with us about the feature, both online and in person at Fanfest. While there were certainly concerns from you guys, the conversation stayed mature and productive which is fantastic for us and we really appreciate it.
Until next time, Fly safe, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters
Perhaps you could reinstate Recurring Opportunities in the future, only make the conditions necessary to gain the rewards more difficult and change up what kind of rewards you get depending on the individual opportunity.
For example, you might increase the number of SP you gain from the previous opportunity, while at the same time increasing the number of NPC pirates you need to kill or the conditions for gaining those SP - i.e. tiered number of skillpoints gained depending on the level of anomaly a player completes (10,000 SP for Level 1 anomalies - 25,000 to 50,000 for Havens and Sanctum-level anomalies per week.) That way, you could still maintain the same level of SP gain from the original plan, but with bigger initial pay-out.
You could be rewarded with a certain amount of ore at your home station from ORE for mining a set amount of asteroids, ice or gas sites per day or week, and you could even gain Loyalty Points for completing Data and Relic Sites from CONCORD for services rendered in hacking pirate sites.
For bigger opportunities, make them timed, like you do with the Epic Arcs, or even tie them in with the Epic Arcs. You could even introduce opportunity rewards for PvP combat in the form of skillpoints to encourage PVP content.
Those are my suggestions at the moment.
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
104
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:49:43 -
[89] - Quote
I like the removal! To me it was an attempt to attract players by giving away cheap cookies which doesn't belong into EVE at all. Improving and creating exciting game content is the way to go to make players login and I hope all future efforts will focus only on that.
I also doubt that this was a real achievement: "We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day..." That bump above the average level of players who are "killing something" each day anyway doing PVE or PVP were likely the ones who were just flying quickly to a belt to get their daily cookie. Of course, everyone enjoyed the cookie but I doubt they enjoyed the way to get it.
And why should everyone be driven into the habit of "killing something"? There are a lot of players who like traveling, exploring around, mining, manufacturing, research, invention, trading, logistics, etc. - and if not always than at least in longer phases. Yes, the game is actually that good to found and enjoy a whole long-term career on not killing something. Don't touch that!
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Azami Nevinyrall
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
2269
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:51:02 -
[90] - Quote
So, the while plan of "make a daily SP system to entice players to play the game, then drive Extractor sales." kinda backfired when people didn't really care...
...
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