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Gabriel Blade
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Posted - 2007.03.06 18:16:00 -
[1]
I'm a casual player, I don't play or read the forums reguarly. So this is probably and old idea, but I figure it can't hurt to suggest it.
Turn mining into a mini-game. This would make mining marginally more interesting to regular players by giving them something to do besides twiddle there thumbs while the asteroid drains and would complicate macro mining.
What that mini-game would be is an open question. One possibility I thought of would be a tetris like game where the game area is your cargo hold and pieces comming down from the top represents the ore you are mining. The goal would be to maximize the efficiency of the ore packing in your cargo hold. If you do well you can store more ore in your hold relative to if your do poorly.
The basic goal here it simply to make mining a more interactive activity. As it is now mining is one of the least interactive things you can do in eve, which makes it a bit dull for regular players and easily accessable to macro miners.
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Fraszoid
Caldari
BloodStorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.03.06 18:25:00 -
[2]
Have you ever seen a computer play tetris, they are very skilled at it so macros would be more efficient than a real player. Also you try leading a mining op while in a Hulk and see how well that would work out. If mining was meant to be the less interesting path, and I for one like it that way. It gives me time to do my course work and study for school.
Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
Gabriel Blade
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Posted - 2007.03.06 19:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 06/03/2007 19:03:43
Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 06/03/2007 19:03:02
 Originally by: Fraszoid
Have you ever seen a computer play tetris, they are very skilled at it so macros would be more efficient than a real player.
First I said what the mini-game would be is an open question. I am well aware that the suggestion I made in this regard, tetris, could in principal be played well by a computer. However in this circumstance I fail to see how a macro could play the game because I don't see how a macro could see gameplay area. Perhaps I'm missing something about the how macros work, but this would seem to be an very difficult problem to me.
Originally by: Fraszoid
Also you try leading a mining op while in a Hulk and see how well that would work out. If mining was meant to be the less interesting path, and I for one like it that way. It gives me time to do my course work and study for school.
I think you are saying (your second sentence in incomplete so it's not clear) that you prefer mining to be non-interactive because it allows you to do other things out of game while you are mining. I feel this is undesireable because eve is a game and the point of a game is to be interesting. If you're doing other things while playing the game that a pretty clear indication that the game has failed to be interesting. You of course are entitled to feel differently.
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Puf
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Posted - 2007.03.06 20:25:00 -
[4]
I'm pretty sure a Macro could work by reading the data (Only that involving the mini-game, for efficiency) and it would find the data and use that little Potato Chip called a graphics card to turn it into an image for the macro. Anyway, nice try. I think someone had a similar idea that was a little more involved...I think it was like 1st person control of the turrets and you would have to shoot weak points on the asteroid and scoop up the minerals...
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Gnord
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Posted - 2007.03.06 23:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Gnord on 06/03/2007 23:36:39
I just don't know. When I started this game, macro miners bugged me. A lot. They were unfairly stealing up all the ore in the areas I wanted to mine in. They were a lot older than me, and could strip the belt dry in the time it took me to work on a single rock.
Nowadays though, I don't mine much, and if I did, I could compete with them for the ores on their own turf.
I think the point about macro-mining is that it hurts new players. In my Rokh, I can outmine a whole fleet of newbies. A covetor can out mine that even.
Anyway, like I said. Macrominers don't bug me anymore. They're not competing on MY space anymore. I can make over a hundred times more isk in the same amount of time missioning. Honestly, if they're doing it for money I don't see the point. Unfortunately the game has EVOLVED to the point where macrominers are actually encouraged. The longer it takes to mine, the less reward you get per time interval, these factors will convince people to macromine more.
It's not about making mining more DIFFICULT to macro, because it CAN be done. I used to write macros to beat flash games years ago. I could beat the leaderboard usually by several orders of magnitude. If you make mining harder, you will deter a few people who can't macro as well, but you'll only end up butting heads against the really GOOD macro writers.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.03.07 00:21:00 -
[6]
First off macro miners mine the crappy ore, what this does is drive the price down much further than it would normally be for those minerals. What i do then is mine 0.0 grade ore (both in 0.0 and in low sec exploration) and sell what i need from that to buy the low grade ores. If macro miners were not around i would either have to spend alot more on it or waste time getting it myself.
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Jinnigan
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.07 00:46:00 -
[7]
It's a terrible idea because you severely underestimate the amount of mining that is required for higher-end materials.
Seriously, I don't want to play a mini-game for 7 hours, tetris or no.
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Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2007.03.07 04:51:00 -
[8]
Dull is nice, means you can do other things in RL, like reading a book, browsing the forums or atending a call.
Macromining is hard to detect and to tackle. Also there's plenty of people called "macrominers" that are really farmers (the EULA doesn't prohibit you to play all day long, use more than one account and hoarding, only attackable for the isk-selling) or gangs of regular players that know how to mine.
Low sec mining is not so dull, you have to be somewhat more atentive, checking for pirates or enemies. Also, I want to play EvE-Online, not "Puzzle Pirates on Space".
Have fun.
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.07 13:36:00 -
[9]
Not forgetting that Macro's only mine in high sec and only get low end mins.
And look at the price of them nowadays, Macro's aren't as bad for the economy as people think.
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari
Star Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.07 13:44:00 -
[10]
well i can tell you where an ice belt in high sec is and its being mined by macros to death, if you ask me macro miners (i note are agains the rules and regulations of eve) are taking ore from safe space where the young players may want to dabble and play, last time i was there, there were 80!!! yes 80!!! macro miners, unfortunately the sec of space is too high to kill them off. I may want to do ice mining but will have to be driven off to a sector of space where there are rats.
the benefits of going elsewhere, 1: the rats, 2: no one else there and you get a nice framerate!! 3: ice belts disappear in high sec after being mined out. SO QUIT MINING IT YOU MACROS! at least then maybe some of us can use it. (devs if you want to sort out this large group of macro'ers just check the 1.0 systems in the forge, they are all in npc corps with random names and are constantly going back and forward to station)
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Finlander09
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Posted - 2007.03.07 15:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Not forgetting that Macro's only mine in high sec and only get low end mins.
And look at the price of them nowadays, Macro's aren't as bad for the economy as people think.
Look at the ICE ore prises .. They are horrible low. I know 2 minmatar belts that other has 30 Macros 23/7 and other has 60 Makros 23/7. And everyone has mackinaw.
I dont wanna play tetris while i mine.
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annab
Amarr
FireStar Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.08 00:20:00 -
[12]
The only way macro miners will be removed fairly is if they make ships above crusiers flyable if your not in a faction npc corp.
I know some people will want to stay in an NPC corp. So there should be NPC corps that allow for war decs agaist them. However these corps are not in any factions. A normal corp but with no player owners. Which you go to if you leave a corp for an NPC one.
This would allow the corps in systems to attack macro miners. At the monment the only way to kill them is the good old gank in t1 fitted ships and a huge standings loss.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2007.03.08 01:03:00 -
[13]
A better idea would be to place a ban on all the people that has done bussiness with that macro miner. Granted that is alittle heavy handed and may sting the profit margin of ccp for a tiny bit. but eventually it would ballance out again. Eventually the macro mining would stop.
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.08 01:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Finlander09
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Not forgetting that Macro's only mine in high sec and only get low end mins.
And look at the price of them nowadays, Macro's aren't as bad for the economy as people think.
Look at the ICE ore prises .. They are horrible low. I know 2 minmatar belts that other has 30 Macros 23/7 and other has 60 Makros 23/7. And everyone has mackinaw.
I dont wanna play tetris while i mine.
The trouble with Ice of present is that POS's use up alot of the stuff in their operations, ganking Ice macros would cause a massive increase in all t2 items (Since nobody would mine ice for 40k a minute), which would massively mess the economy up.
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Finlander09
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Posted - 2007.03.08 02:54:00 -
[15]
If corporation doesnt want to mine ICE. Its totally theyr own fault if POS goes down.
I want makros out.
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Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2007.03.08 18:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mr Cleann
A better idea would be to place a ban on all the people that has done bussiness with that macro miner. Granted that is alittle heavy handed and may sting the profit margin of ccp for a tiny bit. but eventually it would ballance out again. Eventually the macro mining would stop.
Out of game or in game?
Out of game (buying isk for money) is a bannable offense. The least CCP will do to you if caught is to take away the money. Plenty of stories about people with a negative account that had to start over or quit because of that.
In game, well, if you want to ban me because i have bought ore on ocasions and one of that times I bought it from a macrominer... I'd find it stupid. After all we don't have a way to know what's the seller.
The same can be said about corp contracts. If I've contracted a corp to give me 300 milion tritanium a week I will only worry that they give me the minerals. Or you would spend the time spying on them to see if they are macrominers?
I have faith in that CCP is doing whatever it's in their hands to stop macrominers while constrained by the legal aspects and trying not to disturb actual, non-macroer, customers. They don't publitize it, and also don't explain their methods. If you know the weapons used against you, you can defend better.
Have fun.
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Faust Paramore
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Posted - 2007.03.08 20:06:00 -
[17]
A mini-game for mining would certainly complicate macro-mining, but It would have to be implemented in a way that would not change the whole process too much.
My own idea is to implement a game of sorts involving the asteroid survey scanner or something similar. This way you can choose to use it or mine the old fashioned way.
It would work on the idea that different areas of the asteroid have different densities of oar and you would only mine youÆre your maximum mining amount at the high density spots. When using the scanner on an asteroid you are mining you get a window that pops up showing a 2d diagram of the asteroid with different densities of oar represented by different colors. Kind of like thermal imaging, but not with heat of course. This small diagram will also list at bottom all of your mining lasers that are targeted on the asteroid. When a mining laser is selected from this list, a visual representation of where on the asteroid the laser is digging will appear. You can then click and drag the visual representation to a new location that has denser oar.
The ôgameö part of this whole idea comes through the fact that while you are digging the oar out, the density will change at the location you are digging. This would require you to make periodic adjustments, if you so choose. As you mined, your high density location could quickly become a dud, or by working at a rough spot you could uncover a high density pocket.
Without the scanner mining would look like it functions the same, but your mining amount would fluctuate because of the altering density. You just wonÆt get the luxury of being able to adjust the mining lasers focus to keep your mining at its maximum potential. Without the scanner the spot that the laser mines would be determined randomly. Macro miners could still mine as usual, but generally at a much lower efficiency.
No skills or any mining equipment would need to change to implement this idea except for the actual scanner.
** As an additional idea, a ôDemolition missile launcherö could be incorporated to blast an asteroid with low density oar to try to uncover those hidden spots. This would of course shorten the rocks life span.
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Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:09:00 -
[18]
Gods no. Mining is already a click-and-drag chore and now you want to add more clicking and dragging?
I bet you'd see a lot more macro-miners then before, because regular players would give up on it and go missioning instead.
If you want to get rid of macro-miners - gather evidence and petition them.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
AD VITAM AETERNAM
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:28:00 -
[19]
Macro miners are more efficient in the clicking and dragging than we are...
When I chat I often get the hate message about no more cargohold, miners deactivated and ore lost... I don't think it ever happens to a program that only has that to do!
Auto jetcan the minerals would be fine, but it would need something to avoid afk mining (it is no better than macros...). Maybe a simple button to move to jetcan and blinks/beeps when ore is added to your cargohold (yes, it doesn't solve the macro miners, it only helps the actual real players to mine).
It is still hard to make difference between a macro miner and a player (macros can add mistakes to seem like a player, and players may make no mistakes, some players sleep very few and have no life, macros are online most of time, it's quite the same).
Even text chat can be reproduced, look there http://www.alicebot.org/, when the system has enough words and language constructions, it can be hard to make the difference...
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron...
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.09 17:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Finlander09
If corporation doesnt want to mine ICE. Its totally theyr own fault if POS goes down.
I want makros out.
The point is, the t2 economy relies on Ice and Ice fueled Pos's, increase the price of ice and the effects of it will cause an INCREASE on every item that requires POS materials. If the Ice price was to double, you'd certainly get a sizable increase on t2 item costs.
Macros.
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Faust Paramore
Super Troopers
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Posted - 2007.03.09 18:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Snabbik Shigen
Gods no. Mining is already a click-and-drag chore and now you want to add more clicking and dragging?
I bet you'd see a lot more macro-miners then before, because regular players would give up on it and go missioning instead.
If you want to get rid of macro-miners - gather evidence and petition them.
In case you haven't noticed the whole game is played with clicks and drags; asside from a small amount of typing here and there. The point of the idea would be to add some random elements that would choke up the basic macros.
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.10 21:48:00 -
[22]
It's easy to get rid of macroers!
Captcha when each mining cycle completes! ;> Very few macroers could work with that, if any... :P
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Emylissan
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.03.10 22:36:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Emylissan on 10/03/2007 22:36:16
Ok first only to be sure what i think..noobquestion:
Macrominers are chars who loggin to mine with a script automatic, correct?
A way to stop them could be that, at least in high security space, ships from concored patrol around the asteroid fields and send requests to each ship every 30 minutes or so, and than the player has to to answer a question (the answer is shown in little letters at the bottom of the questiontext) and the question and anwser is allways a different uncalculateable. When they answer wrong they get one warning and another question ( for those players who just got up and still playing with halfclosed eyes)^^. After a second wrong answer the the concord ships shoot that (outlaw) without destroying the capsule of course.
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