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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy
Caldari State
101
   |
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:36:30 -
[181] - Quote
Guys - please stop focusing on this desire to attract new players - Business does not work in this fashion.
For a start it's expensive and a lot of the time your PR reaches the wrong people. That is why business focus on retaining current customers.
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Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:44:48 -
[182] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
thats precisely why im pulling you up on it.
its not even remotely in the same ball park ,
is extremely disrespectful to those of us who may have sufferd or had someone close to us suffer and you know it.
this is a game ,
regardless of whatever qualifiers or context you use it is never acceptable to publicly take the **** out of someones real trauma by making that comparison and i am ashamed for us every time i see it.
Oh quit with the pretend forum outrage man. Cmon, you're better than that |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14570
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:47:50 -
[183] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Guys - please stop focusing on this desire to attract new players - Business does not work in this fashion.
For a start it's expensive and a lot of the time your PR reaches the wrong people. That is why business focus on retaining current customers.
But they need new customers for the whales since the old ones leave.
Its all there.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Serene Repose
2737
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:48:02 -
[184] - Quote
Statisticians use statistics much like how a drunk uses a lamp post;
more for propping themselves up than for illumination.
I can see CCP So And So making a claim that amounts to boasting rather than a credibly drawn gleaning of facts can be taken as gospel when it supports the preferred view - gank them and they'll stay.
Problem is, if you aren't dogmatically inclined, common sense will say CCP has no way to obtain this information from people who quit the game. Just like in a poll, you have no adjustment for people who are lying, and no entry for people who refuse to be polled. The doubt isn't cast on CCP So And So making a claim. It is on the information actually existing. "We see you quit EVE. Would you take this little survey and tell us why?" Sorry. Deal with reality, or not.
I think I already aptly dealt with this subject. The arguments are from the habitually contrary that see the truth as a threat to their imaginary game...or their forum game...whichever.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy
Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:54:54 -
[185] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:Guys - please stop focusing on this desire to attract new players - Business does not work in this fashion.
For a start it's expensive and a lot of the time your PR reaches the wrong people. That is why business focus on retaining current customers.
But they need new customers for the whales since the old ones leave. Its all there.
They leave because CCP do a terrible job at listening to what we, as consumers of the game, want from their product. In the last 18 months they managed to **** off so many loyal players this is why numbers are where they are. Also remember CCP want active players to give a true reflection of engagement not 20 characters being controlled by the same player.
Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers, it's wasted money focusing on trying to attract new players - in many business models word of mouth is more powerful than any PR campaign. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:56:27 -
[186] - Quote
On topic, I don't feel it's my responsibility as a paying customer to do CCP's job for them. Some people are under the illusion that CCP and the playerbase are a sort of collection of like-minded people all working together for the same goal. EVE is CCP's product, they reap the financial rewards, responsibility for development and marketing is up to them.
If the product is good, people will want it, simple as that.
There is also the problem that the older a computer game gets, the more it begins to compare unfavourably to newer games with better tech and gameplay features. No matter how many shiny bits you stick on it, it's still the same game underneath. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14570
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:12:37 -
[187] - Quote
Quote:Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers
But the current customers are not your 2003 customers.
If profile of the game was developed (broken as you would say) for the system that is selfdestructive, not for average gamer, but for those who are destructive for game, you may be very wrong with that retaining.
We need again average player, playing, having fun and paying subscription. Activities in game should be fun, is that mining, missioning or PvP.
Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Solecist Project
32203
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:22:39 -
[188] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:
Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus.
Thats' actually backwards.
EVE is the only game i hear of where the players still have power and aren't treated like stupid, easily manipulatable idiots. Whales don't have "power with their wallets". They're literally cows being milked for their money and eventually they are being thrown away. Then they go seek the next game that only aims at milking them from their money.
Related: korean MMOs
Specific example: ArcheAge.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14571
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:37:46 -
[189] - Quote
I see it as a game that is lacking in fun other than PvP and avoiding PvP. PvE is in bad state. Mining is on prehistoric level of development.
Skills and alts make it more feasible to have more power in sense of raw numbers, if you compare players on certain level of development, one who have more money to spend additionally and one with less money. Win=fun.
Bigger fish eats smaller fish.
The issue is environment must fit the smaller fish (PvE player maybe ocasionally taking part in PvP) for it to be flourishing. Bigger fish (PLEX buying PvP-ers with capitals and skill intensive characters) is only there to profit of the smaller fish.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy
Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:43:00 -
[190] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers But the current customers are not your 2003 customers. If profile of the game was developed (broken as you would say) for the system that is selfdestructive, not for average gamer, but for those who are destructive for game, you may be very wrong with that retaining. We need again average player, playing, having fun and paying subscription. Activities in game should be fun, is that mining, missioning or PvP. Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus.
That's got **** all to do with attracting new players.
Good gameplay = Good Game = Engagement
Spend money on that rather than trying to reach new players. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14572
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:48:50 -
[191] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers But the current customers are not your 2003 customers. If profile of the game was developed (broken as you would say) for the system that is selfdestructive, not for average gamer, but for those who are destructive for game, you may be very wrong with that retaining. We need again average player, playing, having fun and paying subscription. Activities in game should be fun, is that mining, missioning or PvP. Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus. That's got **** all to do with attracting new players. Good gameplay = Good Game = Engagement Spend money on that rather than trying to reach new players.
Yes, good gameplay.
It should be their focus.
Players gave you ideas for next 20 years of development, CCP.
And they did not ask for overpriced stuff in NEX store, but they have been posting about lack of EVE shop.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7728
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:54:49 -
[192] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:It's a good thing feelings don't define reality then. I was talking about his (and not only his) dogmatic stance. You seem to be genuinly convinced that ganking in first 14 days have good results on player staying with the game. When this is only 1 percent of the whole that was ganked in this 14 days. It is very poor sample. What about the rest 99 percent that could have been ganked after that time? Where are statistics about that? Else: how do you search for more meningfull data? And: what players write when they resign can only be a peak of the iceberg.
There is nothing dogmatic about his 'stance'. It wasn't a stance to begin with, it was simple information. Information that apparently, you've misread. I suggest you take another look at the chart. That 1% of people who were ganked is 1% of the total population sample, not 1% of all ganks. While you're taking another look at the chart, also go and look up the definition of dogmatic. You're using it wrong.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7728
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 12:58:26 -
[193] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:
But they need new customers for the whales since the old ones leave.
Yes, and if player retention was higher, there would be less concern about attracting new players.
We need new players because.... the old ones are leaving due to dissatisfaction?
Let that sink in a moment.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14572
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:12:54 -
[194] - Quote
Quote:That 1% of people who were ganked is 1% of the total population sample, not 1% of all ganks.
I understand that it was 80000 players, not total population. And from this 80000 players its 1%. I may worded my post wrong because I dont use english as my primary language.
I think 15 days (trial) and 1% with 80000 players is bad initial conditions and it should not be extrapolated on the whole population.
Its about this 1%.
If CCP want only 1% of population to play the game, its awfull thinking.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:
But they need new customers for the whales since the old ones leave.
Yes, and if player retention was higher, there would be less concern about attracting new players. We need new players because.... the old ones are leaving due to dissatisfaction? Let that sink in a moment.
Less people seem to bother with convincing CCP, they just leave. Maybe because CCP more than less acts like its not listening to them?
Why is that? Maybe the hubris is strong in them?
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7729
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:24:18 -
[195] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:That 1% of people who were ganked is 1% of the total population sample, not 1% of all ganks.
I understand that it was 80000 players, not total population. And from this 80000 players its 1%. I may worded my post wrong because I dont use english as my primary language. I think 15 days (trial) and 1% with 80000 players is bad initial conditions and it should not be extrapolated on the whole population. Its about this 1%. If CCP want only 1% of population to play the game, its awfull thinking.
I think you need to learn more about why population samples are used for research, instead of entire populations, and why 80,000 is actually a very large and very acceptable population sample for EVE Online. I also suggest you take another look at the method they used, particularly what they did with trial accounts. Trial accounts were not used, and the first fifteen days that we're seeing are the first fifteen days of people that stuck around.
And no, nothing about this dataset suggests in any way that CCP only wants 1% of the population to play this game. That's not the thinking here at all. The 1% is, 1% of the population sample got ganked. The other 99% lost ships by other means, or didn't lose a ship at all. Then they explicitly state that of the people that do leave, less than 1% of people cite ship loss or harassment as their reason for leaving, which is a completely different statistic again.
There is nothing in those slides, or in that data, that suggests CCP only wants this 1%. This isn't even data that shows what CCP want, it's data that shows what players are doing, how they're dying, etc.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14572
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:31:09 -
[196] - Quote
I think they just justify to themselves and to players that the 99 % of players have to endure the conditions in which 1 % is thriving and that will make them stay longer. The 1% will not become 99% no matter their efforts.
But "ganking" is not the issue here paradoxically.
Its "ganking and nothing else" that is the issue I think. Ganking may be left, maybe on differen conditions, more punitive for ganker, But that will not repair anything if they will not take actions in different areas.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Ramona Taggart
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:59:56 -
[197] - Quote
It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?
It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?
Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.
However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.
I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.
I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14572
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:02:02 -
[198] - Quote
Yes, we need to see what is the 99% about. Thats a lot of people!
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
772
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:43:55 -
[199] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers But the current customers are not your 2003 customers. If profile of the game was developed (broken as you would say) for the system that is selfdestructive, not for average gamer, but for those who are destructive for game, you may be very wrong with that retaining. We need again average player, playing, having fun and paying subscription. Activities in game should be fun, is that mining, missioning or PvP. Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus. That's got **** all to do with attracting new players. Good gameplay = Good Game = Engagement Spend money on that rather than trying to reach new players.
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Even if the thread was about, what can CCP do, it's a next to useless answer, but as this thread is about what can we do as players, it's just totally off topic.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Alhira Katserna
Concordiat
Spaceship Samurai
2269
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:50:05 -
[200] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Alhira Katserna wrote:My 2 cents.
- NPC Corps need some rework
- Getting new player into good corps needs to be worked on.
- Wardecs need to be drastically limited, maybe to 3 per alliance.
1 and 2 I completely agree with, however if 2 happens, 3 is not required. Corps/Alliances like Eve-Uni, Horde, Brave, etc. that are very new player friendly, operate under permanent wardec and still manage to have thriving newbros. That's because they actively help their new players and understand how to avoid any issues from wardecs. They have good CEOs and good leadership. Good Corps are never threatened by wardecs and view them in some cases, as a great way to teach their new players. So the positive side of the second suggestion means you don't need that third one at all. More limitations in the mechanics are not required. Tools to find the good corps are.
Well if you-¦re assuming that only big(-ish) corps are corps who are useful for newbies then yeah. But there are also a large numbers of smaller corps in Highsec who might be able to teach newbros but are either surpressed by those constant wardecs or completely thriven off in the first place.
I.e. "Hey don-¦t you want to join our corp?" "Yeah sure, why not?"`"But we are wardecced atm so you have to look for a large amount of things *explains wardec mechanics*" "Err yeah, thx, but then i better stay in my NPC corp for now." |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
576
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 15:25:46 -
[201] - Quote
Until we can find common ground as players, and so I don't get spun, misinterpreted or otherwise taken out of context, common ground is defined as a minimal set of points we can all agree on so we can have ONE consistent minimum picture of EVE... it's going to be impossible to influence CCP to making proper changes to help boost player retention AND marketing to get more people to try the game.
The constant bickering over the image of what EVE is supposed to be not only allows/forces CCP to continue to marginalize the commentary and ideas here, it also will continue to give new players a fragmented picture of the game and what is expected of them in the game and what they should expect from the game.
Thus my point is we should all stop harping on each other over relatively minor game points and start focusing back on major points where that vast majority of players are in solid agreement on the game. THAT image should become a sticky and be the real "This is EVE", beyond that play the game you want, where you want and how you want.
Doing that would probably get the biggest boost in new players and retention. Trial members would see that and go "I like it!" or "Not for me" really fast and either stay aboard or go away quickly.
EVE is not for every person out there, but EVE should be for every person that likes the challenge of EVE. What that challenge is defined as or 'should be' is what we all seem to be unable to agree upon.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7975
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 16:20:18 -
[202] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
EDIT: I can deal with you exactly the same way all those people who don't play this game deal with your kind.
No mate, you can't deal with me at all. You've made it quite evident that rational, consistent discourse are beyond your critical faculties, so until you do something about that, you'll never have the slightest idea how to deal with me besides hurling chidlish invectives or pretending I don't exist. Neither actually deals with me, though. It just makes me stronger. I'm still waiting for you to actually say something that addresses what I've said, rather than what kind of person I am.
Now you see, I practice two principles that most people have been conditioned away from:
- Physical Removal. In this case, I don't read your crap, and if you were in the same room, I'd find somewhere else to be. It's a more common principle than you think, most of the people who won't play Eve because of people like yourself already practice it.
- I know who I and in fact I DO have every right to judge people. We have had 60 years of "who do you are that you think you have the right to judge me?" and look where western civilization has gone. So I practice the reverse of that anti-civilizational concept that we are somehow not allowed to judge others based on their character and their actions. This also requires a bit of adult-level understanding. For example, I look like a scumbag and sometimes when I go for a run the police have stopped me for looking like I was up to no good. But I have my ID number memorized (and no criminal record) and understand that people who get paid to make judgments will judge me on my appearance.
I know being judged might be a little hard to accept for some people. But as the old saying goes "evil flees where none pursue(th)".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7975
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 16:26:33 -
[203] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Oh look what a surprise, this thread has devolved into the same dozen people rehearsing the same old "bears vs ganker" rubbish that litters every thread in these forums.
And people wonder why the devs prefer to interact with the community on reddit. What a mystery.
ISD, start doing your damb jobs and put a stop to this crap wrecking every single thread in GD.
I'll bet you 5 pints of ale (if we ever cross paths) that the ISDs are also mods on Reddit. 
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1868
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 16:41:23 -
[204] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote:The girl on the last picture in pretty but where are results of this 'science'? You know: numbers like they provided on two other pictures? I'm sure if they have nice numbers they would show it? But they didn't? Instead they made pretty wide conclusion which would be happily accepted by players on Fan-Fest. PR you know.... It would be really interesting to see real data they have collected. So you are saying CCP are lying?
Well.... If you really want to evade this question.... Then you CAN use maneuvers like that.
But 'NO U' does not make YOUR story more clean and trustworthy. And yes, it's YOUR story because YOU repeat it in every thread. YOU gave these 3 pictures so i would like YOU to tell ME why there are no any real results provided on 3rd picture. You believe to this story so either you have proofs or it's your bias.
And about 'CCP are lying'.... I'm pretty sure YOU know how to take their words spoken on Fan Fest.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14575
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 16:43:21 -
[205] - Quote
EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming. 
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
|
Alhira Katserna
Concordiat
Spaceship Samurai
2270
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:28:53 -
[206] - Quote
Nah that-¦s Star Citizen  |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14444
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:38:37 -
[207] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming.
A scam you are still paying for. That would make CCP scammers, but would make you a ________. Fill in your own blanks.
Elite, No Man's Sky, STO etc, if you don't like one space game find another.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
773
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:42:28 -
[208] - Quote
Alhira Katserna wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Alhira Katserna wrote:My 2 cents.
- NPC Corps need some rework
- Getting new player into good corps needs to be worked on.
- Wardecs need to be drastically limited, maybe to 3 per alliance.
1 and 2 I completely agree with, however if 2 happens, 3 is not required. Corps/Alliances like Eve-Uni, Horde, Brave, etc. that are very new player friendly, operate under permanent wardec and still manage to have thriving newbros. That's because they actively help their new players and understand how to avoid any issues from wardecs. They have good CEOs and good leadership. Good Corps are never threatened by wardecs and view them in some cases, as a great way to teach their new players. So the positive side of the second suggestion means you don't need that third one at all. More limitations in the mechanics are not required. Tools to find the good corps are. Well if you-¦re assuming that only big(-ish) corps are corps who are useful for newbies then yeah. But there are also a large numbers of smaller corps in Highsec who might be able to teach newbros but are either surpressed by those constant wardecs or completely thriven off in the first place. I.e. "Hey don-¦t you want to join our corp?" "Yeah sure, why not?"`"But we are wardecced atm so you have to look for a large amount of things *explains wardec mechanics*" "Err yeah, thx, but then i better stay in my NPC corp for now."
Why would you assume only big Corps? That seems like a rather stupid and unnecessary limitation.
Good Corps (or good Corp leadership) is never suppressed by wardecs. That's the opposite of good.
If you're scared of wardecs, then don't run a Corp. but there are plenty of Corps that are not bothered at all by wardecs.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Legion
17945
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:56:51 -
[209] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Well.... If you really want to evade this question.... Then you CAN use maneuvers like that. But 'NO U' does not make YOUR story more clean and trustworthy. And yes, it's YOUR story because YOU repeat it in every thread. YOU gave these 3 pictures so i would like YOU to tell ME why there are no any real results provided on 3rd picture. You believe to this story so either you have proofs or it's your bias. And about 'CCP are lying'.... I'm pretty sure YOU know how to take their words spoken on Fan Fest.
Posted more evidence in here than anyone else has. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14576
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:57:11 -
[210] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming. A scam you are still paying for. That would make CCP scammers, but would make you a ________. Fill in your own blanks. Elite, No Man's Sky, STO etc, if you don't like one space game find another.
I am not the only one _______ it seems.
But on more serious note, when even being the greatest in this field is endangered, then what future awaits us? 
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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