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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:16:01 -
[1] - Quote
Can I get a Dev comment on this please?
Who was it that thought flying around at less than 3.0AU is immersive or rewarding in any form?
I believe most of the player base had no problem with smaller tackle ships and cruiser size hulls warping around faster than the larger hulls.
But seriously the time in warp for larger sub cap ships is RIDICULOUS. How was it that one day all the sub caps went at 3.0 and the next day all of a sudden BS and other T1 warships were nerfed into the ******* groud to move slowly. I realize that you want us to all fly expensive t3 to burn isk but the cost of this has been a profound nerf to roaming gangs of larger ship types, many of them some of the most iconic ships in the game.
How in a game is this supposed to be fun? Where is the sense of pace or urgency when we fly around in larger ships like some form of fricken space snails. Perhaps cap ships should be warping around at 2.5 or so. I appreciate that CCP gave us a clone set and rigs so we could nerf the crap out of our ships to warp around at a reasonable speed but seriously WTF.
I am a 10 year+ vet and I literally cannot bring myself to undock anymore to warp around in a BS at the ridiculous speeds that now apply in the game. I used to do an 1-3 hour roam almost every night of the week , post the warp speed changes that died as the time needed to cover territory to give even a slight chance of running across something to kill went up too far.
It has killed roaming gangs using larger hull sizes almost totally, was this by design?
Maybe we should all sit in stations with alt accounts running around to then blops or WH drop on someone but FFS please return he warp speeds to larger sub caps to something useable. Spending hours in warp is I believe genuinely bad for the game.
Think about how new players to the game experience it. How do you think they find the amount of time spent in warp? as an exciting or immersive experience? or a throw back to a style of gaming that has died out.
Industrial ships should also have their AU warp speeds looked at. There was a time when commerce ships were fast as warships or faster they did not have weapon and armor on board. Perhaps if freighters and other ships moved with speed it would give us more time to expend on the interesting elements of the game.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
1038
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:37:21 -
[2] - Quote
Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17882
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:42:42 -
[3] - Quote
If I can figure out how to get a Megathron to run around like an assault frigate you can get a BS to warp at 3 au/sec. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.15 23:45:57 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If I can figure out how to get a Megathron to run around like an assault frigate you can get a BS to warp at 3 au/sec.
With a tank? ******. Did you read the full post? |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.15 23:49:09 -
[5] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow.
No ships are 'naturally slow' this is a choice that CCP are placing on us. Which universe would you prefer to inhabit, one where you warp around quickly or at least reasonably or one where it takes 2 minutes in a freighter to cross the system.
I'm not asking for interceptor speed for BS and BC hulls. I am asking for a return to how the game ran for nearly 10 years. It wasn't broken then.
Does anyone actually like warping around at these speeds in large ships? ask yourself would the game be more fun and exciting if warp time was reduced or not. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
565
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Posted - 2016.08.16 00:38:16 -
[6] - Quote
You mean before Phoebe and capitals being able to use gates, right?
also, Yeah, some ships are slower than others, and for them to not be so would not make a lick of sense.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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jiujitsutou
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
5
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Posted - 2016.08.16 00:39:53 -
[7] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:You mean before Phoebe and capitals being able to use gates, right?
also, Yeah, some ships are slower than others, and for them to not be so would not make a lick of sense.
caps would be an obvious exception to this |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
565
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 00:40:58 -
[8] - Quote
jiujitsutou wrote:Kenrailae wrote:You mean before Phoebe and capitals being able to use gates, right?
also, Yeah, some ships are slower than others, and for them to not be so would not make a lick of sense.
caps would be an obvious exception to this
Yet Freighters are the example he keeps using.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 01:15:48 -
[9] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:jiujitsutou wrote:Kenrailae wrote:You mean before Phoebe and capitals being able to use gates, right?
also, Yeah, some ships are slower than others, and for them to not be so would not make a lick of sense.
caps would be an obvious exception to this Yet Freighters are the example he keeps using.
To be honest it is warships that I would prefer see have the increased AU speed. But This is computer spaceship pixels we are talking about so any of them could go at any speed. It is a game play / game experience thing.
Is it fun to plod around at 1.5 AU? Also if you want to use a real world analogy then WW 2 battleships were often the fastest ships at sea. Freight ships such as tea clippers and other large bulk vessels have in the past been some of the fastest ships on the ocean.
Added to that no one felt that the game was broken when everything pretty much went at 3.0AU. I'm not asking for a game changing buff to all ships although I do genuinely believe that it is warranted, I am asking for some sense to allow larger ships to roam space without the sacrifice required by warp speed rigs and clones.
It is an easy change to larger ships that just don't get taken on roams. Or do we all have to sit waiting on a titan / wormhole or for the blops cyno to go up. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1026
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 03:23:12 -
[10] - Quote
Maraner wrote:Can I get a Dev comment on this please? Probably not. But good luck.
Maraner wrote: Who was it that thought flying around at less than 3.0AU is immersive or rewarding in any form?
Who thought flying faster than that was immersive and/or fun? There are people in both camps - the I wanna get there now group prefers higher warp speeds. The I want Eve to feel large prefer the slower ones. For the record, I fall into that second group.
Maraner wrote: I realize that you want us to all fly expensive t3 to burn isk ... [quote]
citation needed
[quote=Maraner] How in a game is this supposed to be fun? Where is the sense of pace or urgency ...
This is really the part I wanted to talk about. Personally, I feel like slowing the pace of fleets actually increases the sense of urgency. You've got to form faster, move with more efficiency, and find ways to shave seconds that your opponent might not so you can have the better field position. If anything, I think capital ships warp too fast.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.16 04:41:05 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for the input and the positive criticism, it is most welcome.
My main concern is the time it takes to travel 20-30 jumps in subcaps particularly the larger older T1 ships in the game, namely the BC and BS class.
There used to be large numbers of small fleets roaming looking for trouble, that has become a rare thing unless you run across fleets of T3D's or other fast moving ships.
The warp speed nerf reduced to vanishingly rare BS fleets or mixed ship type gangs that used to be a fairly common sight. CCP clearly felt it was not game breaking to allow people to use bubble immune, rigged and module fit interceptors to cross from one side of the map to the other in hour or so. (In fact does anyone know what the record is?).
I am just asking them to reconsider the nerf to larger sub cap ships in the game. They have already done this to some degree with the BC hulls I believe. I just would very much like to see roaming gangs of ships return to the game in numbers and I believe that the warp speed is a direct reason why they are not a more common sight. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3519
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 04:59:28 -
[12] - Quote
For EVE to be larger we need more content per system is the issue. Not the slowness of warp, but the fact that systems are so small and limited. A single system should be full of life and things to do, not have maybe 3 or 4 (or in a very busy WH maybe 15) anoms & sigs. And only more if they are 'instanced' missions. (Yes people can join them by scanning you but they don't exist in general). |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 05:04:21 -
[13] - Quote
My point is that when we have to travel for content the time taken reduces our options to find something (someone) to engage with.
Following the 3.0AU nerf the roams that I led went no where near as far in the same period of time. This is the crux of my argument. if you spend too much time traveling in sub caps then content opportunities are lost. Or you look at the map and say, that is too far to go, or there is no WH network that lets me reach where I want to go.
Outcome less fleets to find, less opportunity for a fight.
Again, not asking BS and BC to move like interceptors, just asking for a buff to 3.0AU to enable a return to small gang roaming. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 06:14:44 -
[14] - Quote
No, bombers reduced the large number of battleships roaming about.
If you want to bring a BS around quickly, find a w-space connection to do it. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2413
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 11:27:03 -
[15] - Quote
Agreed.
Battleships and battlecruisers should be moving as fast as a fleet ship. They are fleet ships. Since the classes of ships in EVE are modelled on terran ocean going ships it makes no sense for them to be ridiculously slow.
IRL Battleships and battlecruisers all throughout history were very fast, in many cases they were a lot faster than their escorts. CA (cruisers), CV (carriers) and BB (Battleships) had to be since they were so expensive and were designed to run with a fleet.
What they were not was agile, they have very poor agility due to mass but huge engines for speed.
In terms of EvE battleships and battlecruisers should warp and move as fast as cruisers but have crappy agility.
The nerf to warp speed was almost the final nail in the coffin for larger sub-cap ships and there was very little to no reasonable explanation as to why they needed to warp so slowly given they were hardly being used anyway.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1208
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 12:26:39 -
[16] - Quote
I feel your pain. Same for me, as I cba to move cyno chars to 15 different locations, just to move from place a to place b, this sucks massive balls and the reason why I rather picked to better stay logged off and dont give a fck about this game so much anymore. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 22:54:45 -
[17] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:No, bombers reduced the large number of battleships roaming about.
If you want to bring a BS around quickly, find a w-space connection to do it.
In low sec? perhaps in 0.0 where bombing runs are a thing. I think CCP have made a mistake by increasing the travel time for larger sub caps. And I believe that it is a serious one.
Groups of 10-15 size roams out looking for a fight are becoming very very rare.
This is bloody serious as it makes people less and less likely to just go out for a roam to see what they come across. This is a ****** way to let the game head.
Reverse the warp speed nerf now, buff the older t1 hulls and let us get back to roaming gangs where random and exciting **** happens instead of waiting for something to happen and then sending out a ping to form up and drop.
This inability to move around larger sub caps quickly is a genuine threat to the game. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4615
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 23:07:25 -
[18] - Quote
One rig and one slot 6 implant.
Sorted.
Or fly a mach.
Also, why do you think warp speed changes are the reason no-one flies battleships, not T3 cruisers that do everything battleships can do but better, or T3ds, which do everything very cheaply? |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
567
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 23:10:35 -
[19] - Quote
Maraner wrote:Rawketsled wrote:No, bombers reduced the large number of battleships roaming about.
If you want to bring a BS around quickly, find a w-space connection to do it. In low sec? perhaps in 0.0 where bombing runs are a thing. I think CCP have made a mistake by increasing the travel time for larger sub caps. And I believe that it is a serious one. Groups of 10-15 size roams out looking for a fight are becoming very very rare. This is bloody serious as it makes people less and less likely to just go out for a roam to see what they come across. This is a ****** way to let the game head. Reverse the warp speed nerf now, buff the older t1 hulls and let us get back to roaming gangs where random and exciting **** happens instead of waiting for something to happen and then sending out a ping to form up and drop. This inability to move around larger sub caps quickly is a genuine threat to the game.
Actually, ass hats who always drop/bring 3 to 4 times your number who don't ever take fights, only farm kills are most of the reason people don't roam in large things anymore. No point. You want fights? Stop being an ass hat and actually take fights. Yeah, you might lose a few ships from time to time. But no, people don't roam because of the mentality of certain groups to either blob/upship the crap out of you or not even undock.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2414
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Posted - 2016.08.17 04:33:26 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:One rig and one slot 6 implant.
Sorted.
Or fly a mach.
Also, why do you think warp speed changes are the reason no-one flies battleships, not T3 cruisers that do everything battleships can do but better, or T3ds, which do everything very cheaply? Id like to a battlecruiser or battleship that can keep up with the current ship meta.
Baltec1s Mega can but at 400dps before sig tracking penalties and 70k ehp you may as well use a cruiser.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17914
|
Posted - 2016.08.17 07:36:48 -
[21] - Quote
Maraner wrote:baltec1 wrote:If I can figure out how to get a Megathron to run around like an assault frigate you can get a BS to warp at 3 au/sec. With a tank? ******. Did you read the full post?
I have 14 different setups from cruiser roaming right up to an 8.15 au/sec monster just for the megathron. It is rather easy to get any BS up to 3 au without sacrificing much. One hyperspacial II and a slot 6 and slot 4 implant does the trick. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:07:43 -
[22] - Quote
I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game. I believe that the AU changes played a significant role in reducing the number of BC and BS gangs that we see roaming (if roaming is even a thing anymore).
I cannot see how returning the BS and BC to 3.0 AU warp speed is going to be in any way game breaking. People then would have a CHOICE to rig or implant their ships to warp faster opposed to the current meta which is just to leave that **** at home in the hanger.
ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:18:04 -
[23] - Quote
Why does my alliance have BS doctrines fits? |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:39:03 -
[24] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Why does my alliance have BS doctrines fits?
I don't know, although I suspect it is to drop them through a titan bridge. Do you go on roams in BS and BCs?
Is your BS doctrine in Machs? Do you actually fly the BS doctrine..... |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:41:08 -
[25] - Quote
Navpocs and Rattles.
Annoyingly the ones I can't fly. If it were Machs, I'd be all over that like a fat kid in a candy store. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.18 03:45:17 -
[26] - Quote
Nice, how often do you use them? do you ever roam in those ships or use them as a response fleet for tower defense etc? |
Valkin Mordirc
2362
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 04:27:47 -
[27] - Quote
I don't mean to interrupt this thread and send a derailing topic into the mix.
But you two look remarkably similar.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 04:32:53 -
[28] - Quote
Me? Never. I don't have Amarr BS trained, and my missiles skills are sub par.
When a comp for those is posted I just drop fleet and go do something else. I'm also AUTZ in a largely USTZ alliance. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 04:37:27 -
[29] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:I don't mean to interrupt this thread and send a derailing topic into the mix.
But you two look remarkably similar.
Lol. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:05:23 -
[30] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Me? Never. I don't have Amarr BS trained, and my missiles skills are sub par.
When a comp for those is posted I just drop fleet and go do something else. I'm also AUTZ in a largely USTZ alliance.
/facepalm |
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:39:54 -
[31] - Quote
My point is: they exist. If I was online to fly them (and had the requisite SP), I would be flying them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17914
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:45:34 -
[32] - Quote
Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone.
CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2414
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 08:50:37 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone. CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships. A single rig will not do the trick.
[Megathron, baltec1's Megathron] Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x3 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x2
3au a second 383 dps (signficantly reduced application in reality) 65000 ehp 118.8mm reso 280,000,000 1,500 speed 2400 sig
Lets compare that to
[Vexor, SpleanKrusher's Vexor] 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x3 Valkyrie II x2 Hammerhead II x1 Hammerhead II x4 Warrior II x5
3au per second 455 dps 42,000 ehp 350mm scan res 110,000,000 isk 1303 speed 870 sig
Enough said.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17931
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 10:09:23 -
[34] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: A single rig will not do the trick.
1 rig, 2 implants = 1 fitting slot used.
The example you just tried is for a much much faster, cap stable shield fleet. It is not a normal fit people would use. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 10:41:52 -
[35] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone. CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships.
Bal-tecGäó manufactures custom-made balls. (seriously I did not make that up). You can read about them on precisionballs.com
BTW are you seriously suggesting that an interceptor is unable to catch a battleship which has had its warp speed buffed to 3.0?
As I also stated in my first post which lets face it you didn't read that I am quite happy with cruiser size hulls and smaller warping faster than the larger ships in the game.
The issue I have is that it takes too long for BS and BC to roam any reasonable distance and this has lead in part to a reduction in the number of gangs out for a roam. It certainly has created a bias towards fleets that can warp and align quickly.
I am in no way suggesting a nerf to small fast ships, I am asking that the larger hulls receive a mild buff back to 3.0AU where they were quite happily placed for over 10 years.
(Just to repeat again in case someone missed it) leave the smaller hulls to warp faster, no issue with that at all. I disagree that a rig slot lost to a warp speed rig is not a significant sacrifice for a BC or BS. No other warships have to do this to go on a simple fricken roam. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:00:03 -
[36] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:One rig and one slot 6 implant.
Sorted.
Or fly a mach.
Also, why do you think warp speed changes are the reason no-one flies battleships, not T3 cruisers that do everything battleships can do but better, or T3ds, which do everything very cheaply?
I put some of that blame on tiericide. IMO it killed the appeal of some fun BS' when it didn't change much except make them too expensive to fly for giggles and grins. I didn't see a massive shift in BS doctrine. the tier 3 wasn't the primary fleet bs because of tier...it was because the others couldn't do the job desired anyway kind of thing.
Caldari tiericide (my first and longest played race for pvp) still had Rokh the main fleet bs. It wasn't the tier..its was the guns. FC says drop target now...they mean now. Not wait for missile flight time now. Raven still the pve bs that you can try to say yes it can do pvp...but there it is losing out to instant hit guns in more mixed bs doctrines. And scorpion stayed scorpion. But its price shot up to its not that fun to pay this price for joyride levels.
I always had a place in my heart for scorpion. Scorpion was big and slow..but fun. Cheap throw away jam ship. Know some who enjoyed busting balls rushing into huge clusters of hostiles, pop the aoe ecm burst....and fly out if you can. Man this got people fired up lol. Post tiericide and the price spike...man if we had to fly serious again because of isk loss...back to falcon we went. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
834
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:06:24 -
[37] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:For EVE to be larger we need more content per system is the issue. Not the slowness of warp, but the fact that systems are so small and limited. A single system should be full of life and things to do, not have maybe 3 or 4 (or in a very busy WH maybe 15) anoms & sigs. And only more if they are 'instanced' missions. (Yes people can join them by scanning you but they don't exist in general).
You seem to have neglected to mention that systems themselves are functionally like a form of instancing. Perhaps if EVE architecture were more technically adept you could divorce systems entirely from the stargate idea and instead have people use stargates to move constellations/regions. You would then need to warp star to star and thus arrive at random points within the system you're aiming to enter, within say 4au of the star. This form of warping would be faster than regular warping since it uses the gravity well theory instead of just straight up onboard engine based warp drive.
Over all a more dynamic and interesting form of transport with less of the tedious **** that EVE suffers from like gatecamps etc. If the devs want to really encourage players to fight over objects then a great first leap needs to happen in the transportation side of things, the stargate system is a quaint relic of an older era of game design philosophy and I seriously don't think it adds anything to the game for the people who want to fight over moons and structures. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:42:51 -
[38] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:For EVE to be larger we need more content per system is the issue. Not the slowness of warp, but the fact that systems are so small and limited. A single system should be full of life and things to do, not have maybe 3 or 4 (or in a very busy WH maybe 15) anoms & sigs. And only more if they are 'instanced' missions. (Yes people can join them by scanning you but they don't exist in general). You seem to have neglected to mention that systems themselves are functionally like a form of instancing. Perhaps if EVE architecture were more technically adept you could divorce systems entirely from the stargate idea and instead have people use stargates to move constellations/regions. You would then need to warp star to star and thus arrive at random points within the system you're aiming to enter, within say 4au of the star. This form of warping would be faster than regular warping since it uses the gravity well theory instead of just straight up onboard engine based warp drive. Over all a more dynamic and interesting form of transport with less of the tedious **** that EVE suffers from like gatecamps etc. If the devs want to really encourage players to fight over objects then a great first leap needs to happen in the transportation side of things, the stargate system is a quaint relic of an older era of game design philosophy and I seriously don't think it adds anything to the game for the people who want to fight over moons and structures.
Was never partial to the ditch classic SG ideas at first...but they have grown a little on me.
Especially in the wake of the decline of BS and other ships to the dreaded, by some, rise of T3. Why the rise many ask. Get the canned well it does everything good comment. Also stems from sadly they are more survivable for crap that can happen in transit. Have money, don't want to die... if it works use it.
A more random system entry has its appeals more and more to me. Current system and the home team has decent intel channels, and there is a wagon train of BS, or hacs, or tore non-t3 looking at doing 2 things.
Dying in a massive gate camp. Or diverting to new system routes when scouts get that spider sense from a system with 30 people in it....and he can't find any of them. Enough route diversions and its no longer a night of potential fun. Its an exercise in space navigation. random dumps into system and it could get interesting as those 30 people can't clog up the gate. Other side back doors in....they have to readjust. In short....we'd get fights and not turkey shoots on gates.
Current state is why is I see t3 liked. Fast and agile, tanks and shooty. Also not as easy a target if crap goes bad like above.
If not your idea a more reasonable caveat could be not only landing on grid to the damn gate. lets have it 4 grids-8 grid range. 1000-2000 km range give or take. gate fire...gate fire...where the hell are they at? maybe grid 1, grid 4....spread out and find them. vice now where its we all land in a small 250km box. Bubbles up, insert fish into barrel....shoot fish.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17935
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:49:15 -
[39] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
BTW are you seriously suggesting that an interceptor is unable to catch a battleship which has had its warp speed buffed to 3.0?
Im telling you why the change to warp speeds happened. Although yes, It is possible to out warp an interceptor with 3au/sec speeds as a base.
Maraner wrote: As I also stated in my first post which lets face it you didn't read that I am quite happy with cruiser size hulls and smaller warping faster than the larger ships in the game.
The issue I have is that it takes too long for BS and BC to roam any reasonable distance and this has lead in part to a reduction in the number of gangs out for a roam. It certainly has created a bias towards fleets that can warp and align quickly.
I am in no way suggesting a nerf to small fast ships, I am asking that the larger hulls receive a mild buff back to 3.0AU where they were quite happily placed for over 10 years.
(Just to repeat again in case someone missed it) leave the smaller hulls to warp faster, no issue with that at all. I disagree that a rig slot lost to a warp speed rig is not a significant sacrifice for a BC or BS. No other warships have to do this to go on a simple fricken roam.
Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1370
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:54:01 -
[40] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: A single rig will not do the trick.
1 rig, 2 implants = 1 fitting slot used. The example you just tried is for a much much faster, cap stable shield fleet. It is not a normal fit people would use.
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1370
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:55:18 -
[41] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game.....
You do know there are lowslot modules for warping now in the game, right?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:05:55 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds.
Does become a vicious cycle don't it.
Saw your fit ideas and they do work. Issue becomes some can't get off the too much compromise mindset. Or certain implants if used. See their point but also see the point if you want to use BS beyond pos bash or called bs ops (usually cap support/save ops lol)....trade offs need to be made.
But I am more open minded. In my view bs' have been on a downward trend since 2009 when I first started. Accepting and moving on with fit compromise just a thing. Long ago...you traded off on fit to live AOE doomsday. Some needing some perspective can google up those fits. At least with yours and others workarounds the bs can keep some functionality. A DD proof fit....man they hurt all aspects of the boat to keep up tank. And only good for one thing. Yay I lived, gtfo now. Enter phase 2... drop more titans. Nuke the site orbit, just to be sure.
What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:54:31 -
[43] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote: What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it.
There are two things that have impacted BS use heavily. T3 cruisers and the bomb buff.
For general roaming and small gang use, it went on the decline when CCP added tracking to the game and killed the likes of the cavalry raven. The last year hasn't been that bad for BS use, they are in a good place. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:56:19 -
[44] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Nah I'm just stubborn and love the Megathron. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1060
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:53:35 -
[45] - Quote
People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:35:47 -
[46] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Maraner wrote:I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game..... You do know there are lowslot modules for warping now in the game, right?
Yes... to recap I am asking for a buff to 3.0 regardless of available rigs, implants or modules. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:36:40 -
[47] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
That is the most sensible thing anyone has said in this thread |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 21:55:23 -
[48] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:elitatwo wrote:
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Nah I'm just stubborn and love the Megathron.
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced??? |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2416
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 01:53:29 -
[49] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:baltec1 wrote: Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds.
Does become a vicious cycle don't it. Saw your fit ideas and they do work. Issue becomes some can't get off the too much compromise mindset. Or certain implants if used. See their point but also see the point if you want to use BS beyond pos bash or called bs ops (usually cap support/save ops lol)....trade offs need to be made. But I am more open minded. In my view bs' have been on a downward trend since 2009 when I first started. Accepting and moving on with fit compromise just a thing. Long ago...you traded off on fit to live AOE doomsday. Some needing some perspective can google up those fits. At least with yours and others workarounds the bs can keep some functionality. A DD proof fit....man they hurt all aspects of the boat to keep up tank. And only good for one thing. Yay I lived, gtfo now. Enter phase 2... drop more titans. Nuke the site orbit, just to be sure. What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it. They're not workarounds they're self inflicted nerfs to the point you're better off using another smaller ship.
The only reason to use a battleship is EHP and DPS (against other similiar sized targets). These 'workarounds' trade the ehp and dps making the workaround pointless and in most cases making the battleship worse than a cruiser.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 05:53:22 -
[50] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it?
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2418
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 06:16:45 -
[51] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 07:33:32 -
[52] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again.
The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2419
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 15:53:41 -
[53] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again. The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. What you just said makes no sense. Stratios already warps at 3au...
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 16:33:51 -
[54] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again. The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. What you just said makes no sense. Stratios already warps at 3au...
He just literally said in my quote here that he wants to buff ALL warp speeds. ALL. What did you miss there? Do you see why I'm specifically suspicious of his motives, because I know he hotdrops? And that a higher warp speed on a cruiser of like 4.5au would mean that he'd have a much higher chance of catching slow aligning ships bogged down in ratting or mining or whatever..
This conversation is becoming more work than it's worth. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 18:52:21 -
[55] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it?
I honestly didn't even think of that, despite blopsing a lot. I maintain that the Prospect is the best hunter in the game (alt character is currently #7 prospect pilot on zkill) because it has the best mix of warp speed, tank, and lock time currently. Despite that, 95% of times that blops hunters or normal gangs catch people in null or low, it was preventable if the ratter or miner had paid attention to local or intel. Basically, even if they doubled the warp speed of everything across the board, local would still grant a 95% safeguard to ever being attacked in low or null. Most good miners and ratters are docked up before you even enter local. While it may constitute a small buff, it doesn't change local, which is the strongest mechanic granting safety in the game. Even if the prospect went 12 AU/s, between the entering the system delay, 3-4 dscan cycles if you are within 14.3 AU, 4-7 dscan cycles if you are off in another cluster plus the warp time, etc, you have enough time to escape the site in almost any ship, if you are paying attention.
No primarily it means people would (or at least more often) actually undock in fleets, solo, and small gangs, that were not all small things, and actually find other things to shoot at in space. When you sit down and play EvE, you basically now have to make a decision - do I undock in things cruiser sized and below and find a fight or two, or do I undock in a bigger thing and never find a fight? If I only find larger ships engaging, and find the cheap and ditsy game of space bumper cars online, or t3d online, or whatever you want to call the current large ship abhorring meta very lame, I am going to be driven to just play another game. Think of how many more interesting interactions would occur if gangs encountered each other more often? It would be great if we could see diverse fleets interacting and fighting, EvE would come alive, as opposed to just being a desert of t3d gangs patrolling around until they find ganks (not fights) to take.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Infensus
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 19:59:57 -
[56] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: I honestly didn't even think of that, despite blopsing a lot. I maintain that the Prospect is the best hunter in the game (alt character is currently #7 prospect pilot on zkill) because it has the best mix of warp speed, tank, and lock time currently. Despite that, 95% of times that blops hunters or normal gangs catch people in null or low, it was preventable if the ratter or miner had paid attention to local or intel. Basically, even if they doubled the warp speed of everything across the board, local would still grant a 95% safeguard to ever being attacked in low or null. Most good miners and ratters are docked up before you even enter local. While it may constitute a small buff, it doesn't change local, which is the strongest mechanic granting safety in the game. Even if the prospect went 12 AU/s, between the entering the system delay, 3-4 dscan cycles if you are within 14.3 AU, 4-7 dscan cycles if you are off in another cluster plus the warp time, etc, you have enough time to escape the site in almost any ship, if you are paying attention.
No primarily it means people would (or at least more often) actually undock in fleets, solo, and small gangs, that were not all small things, and actually find other things to shoot at in space. When you sit down and play EvE, you basically now have to make a decision - do I undock in things cruiser sized and below and find a fight or two, or do I undock in a bigger thing and never find a fight? If I only find larger ships engaging, and find the cheap and ditsy game of space bumper cars online, or t3d online, or whatever you want to call the current large ship abhorring meta very lame, I am going to be driven to just play another game. Think of how many more interesting interactions would occur if gangs encountered each other more often? It would be great if we could see diverse fleets interacting and fighting, EvE would come alive, as opposed to just being a desert of t3d gangs patrolling around until they find ganks (not fights) to take.
Well if you look at the game design and compare it to say... world of warships or most RTS games or any game involving aircraft you're not supposed to see a large number of the largest units. CV in WOWS are deliberately limited to 2 per side per match to make it perfectly clear that their power is meant to be limited. In the best games you get on wows, you have 3 DD, 5 CA, 3 BB 1 CV and that's the gold standard for the balance the game was built around. Of course WG have other issues I could expand on but not right now. In RTS the heaviest units are supposed to be rarely seen hence you see a prevalence for rushing because cheap units with high ROF/good alpha is superior to a smaller number of high resource consuming units based on losing less firepower per death, because the investment of each shot made is smaller for a given amount of resources over the number of bodies present. Both shots fired and hits taken matters less when you fly the lowest common denominator of fleet effectiveness which manifests itself in the modern game as the T3D. Previously it was the harpy or the crow but look where that got us.
Perhaps if all ships had 3au/s warp speed (except caps perhaps) I could see an argument being made for mixed fleet tactics but then it would probably all boil down again to the greater economic factors of replacing a whole fleet of battleships every fleet compared to the much smaller cost of replacing a fleet of svipuls. People suggesting that cost doesn't matter clearly don't see how this is a fallacy, cost does matter - it matters so much in fact that people are far more prepared to fight in 40mil isk svipuls than they are in 250mil isk rokh/typhoons. One of these extremes also takes a lot, LOT longer to train in to which means there's an upfront SP barrier to entry as well which further reduces the pool of candidates available to your doctrine.
So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 21:30:47 -
[57] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are.
So, when I lived in a content rich area, I didn't mind undocking bushido battleships constantly. Yeah most of them got hotdropped or blobbed to death, but some of them found good fights. I found it fun that I could actually use battleships. There were practical. Consequently, the locals started employing diverse gangs - battlecruisers and battleships regularly populated camps and gangs, and you actually saw and appreciated the full spectrum of ship classes. Well that region is now burned to the ground, so what do I do if I want to get a fight? I have to get in a T3D, because I will never find a fight in a battleship. I'll admit the AT is a very contrived spectacle, but it is fun to watch and play in -because- you actually see all classes and types of ships interacting with their relative strengths and weaknesses. You don' t have that on TQ.
As a regular battleship pilot, both solo and small gang, I can tell you with absolute confidence, I would fly them more and have more fun if it wasn't just warp tunnels for hours on end. Author of the thread feels the same way. Most of us Battleship pilots feel the same way. Just thinking about T3D gangs makes me ill.
You have to remember part of the T3D menace's true strength is you get cruiser level damage and tank with frigate level speeds and warp speeds. They can find things to shoot at. Battleships can only -be- found.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
571
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 21:40:19 -
[58] - Quote
BS and BC would be okay getting a speed/warp speed increase.
Caps a definitive no. Or at least a notably longer spool up time to get into warp for combat caps if they would get a warp speed increase.
However, until T3D's and T3's are dealt with, BS are going to continuously feel underwhelming because those other two classes are so out of balance.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Infensus
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 04:36:57 -
[59] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are. So, when I lived in a content rich area, I didn't mind undocking bushido battleships constantly. Yeah most of them got hotdropped or blobbed to death, but some of them found good fights. I found it fun that I could actually use battleships. There were practical. Consequently, the locals started employing diverse gangs - battlecruisers and battleships regularly populated camps and gangs, and you actually saw and appreciated the full spectrum of ship classes. Well that region is now burned to the ground, so what do I do if I want to get a fight? I have to get in a T3D, because I will never find a fight in a battleship. I'll admit the AT is a very contrived spectacle, but it is fun to watch and play in -because- you actually see all classes and types of ships interacting with their relative strengths and weaknesses. You don' t have that on TQ. As a regular battleship pilot, both solo and small gang, I can tell you with absolute confidence, I would fly them more and have more fun if it wasn't just warp tunnels for hours on end. Author of the thread feels the same way. Most of us Battleship pilots feel the same way. Just thinking about T3D gangs makes me ill. You have to remember part of the T3D menace's true strength is you get cruiser level damage and tank with frigate level speeds and warp speeds. They can find things to shoot at. Battleships can only -be- found.
https://zkillboard.com/character/92717906/losses/ I'm not seeing where your BS losses to diverse fleet compositions comment is coming from. Infact almost every single one of those forementioned losses from may 14 -> present day comes from cruiser/dessy/frigate fleets. Is there any specific one you'd like to bring up?
Re: AT I personally enjoy watching it a lot because it represents are more idealised version of EVE that regrettably simply isn't true. Consider for a moment if much more minor versions of the same AT were held year round. We observe this behaviour with sports teams playing annually and with larger competitions every 3-4 years, at least in down under.
I'm not forgetting anything about T3D's here friendo, I own a couple myself. In nearly every game I play where the option is available I pick the heaviest class/weight class I can. In mechwarrior this was the atlas. In WOWS it's the CV. In BFxyz/ARMA I prefer tanks. On SISI I spend a considerable amount of time in carriers or battleships. On TQ... I don't really pvp very much at all right now. Not out of some endemic fear of the svipul but rather out of a disconnection with the grind. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 06:38:23 -
[60] - Quote
SO AFAIK, KB links are forbidden.
I haven't bothered to undock a BS since Querious died. At one point I'd lose a few Ravens/snakes a week. I even did some work with other solo BS fits a while back, but haven't looked back
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17961
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 08:15:27 -
[61] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced???
I do.
I'm not one that supports bad changes even if that change would benefit me. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
572
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 08:25:48 -
[62] - Quote
Baltec is usually a pretty solid class act.
And I don't think anyone in this game knows the Mega as well as he does.
Sure it may not NEED to be changed....
But I can also see argument for could do with a change.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
Ben Ishikela
78
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 10:19:49 -
[63] - Quote
Seems to me that OP dies not adress any reason of why this change was made and what effects it had on power projection in the first place.
Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 16:58:51 -
[64] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced???
I do. I'm not one that supports bad changes even if that change would benefit me.
Why at least I say you are a fair man.
Same myself , I have -1'd a few because if implemented I know for sure I'd have some fun. Start to play with derived values, i.e. not the ones on the top screen of fitting tool of choice, sometime you find new recipes that are quite fun.
Or as I am almost sure your mega's rely on fleet support. You trade one or 2 things...buts its all good since in a fleet it probably is covered...in abundance. I have tackleless frigates for example....15 mofo's tackling 1 less tackle not end of world. Not fitting tackle on a wolf....I go MSE and full lows to damage mades and stuff dies much faster. Say 12 ships and my missing tackle lost the fight....something about that was lost already. and it wasn't my fit.
I have seen your mega ideas for a while, probably why we saw the nerfs since many like you said if we want to go fast...old school fits won't work. . When one drops the classic ideology of BSs must have dps and ehp....magic happens. For these people who disagree, google blops fits. Many,besides redeemer, get neither ehp or dps. you get creative in these cases....sometimes it works really well. Same applies to T1. Or some fun and interesting gank vindi fits. These came out of nowhere....jacked your ass up...and disappeared. High ehp ,bash style classic fits they were not. |
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2423
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 02:59:58 -
[65] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced???
I do. I'm not one that supports bad changes even if that change would benefit me. Why at least I say you are a fair man. Same myself , I have -1'd a few because if implemented I know for sure I'd have some fun. Start to play with derived values, i.e. not the ones on the top screen of fitting tool of choice, sometime you find new recipes that are quite fun. Or as I am almost sure your mega's rely on fleet support. You trade one or 2 things...buts its all good since in a fleet it probably is covered...in abundance. I have tackleless frigates for example....15 mofo's tackling 1 less tackle not end of world. Not fitting tackle on a wolf....I go MSE and full lows to damage mods and stuff dies much faster. Say 12 ships and my missing tackle lost the fight....something about that was lost already. and it wasn't my fit. I have seen your mega ideas for a while, probably why we saw the nerfs since many like you said if we want to go fast...old school fits won't work. . When one drops the classic ideology of BSs must have dps and ehp....magic happens. For these people who disagree, google blops fits. Many,besides redeemer, get neither ehp or dps. you get creative in these cases....sometimes it works really well. Same applies to T1. Or some fun and interesting gank vindi fits. These came out of nowhere....jacked your ass up...and disappeared. High ehp ,bash style classic fits they were not. This is exactly right. You can fit your mega to have some of the stats of a T1 cruiser if you always fly in a fleet. You could fit it with fireworks and youd still do okay in a fleet.
Its incorrect to say that battleships should not be dps / tank because thats exactly their role apart from a few specialized ones. T1 battleships are only good at dps / tank. Everything else is subpar to.smaller hulls.
Blops are different. Apart from dropping on solo ships theyre almost always accompanied by support ships to do the majority of dps and usually the role is one of gank.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17980
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 08:15:56 -
[66] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced???
I do. I'm not one that supports bad changes even if that change would benefit me. Why at least I say you are a fair man. Same myself , I have -1'd a few because if implemented I know for sure I'd have some fun. Start to play with derived values, i.e. not the ones on the top screen of fitting tool of choice, sometime you find new recipes that are quite fun. Or as I am almost sure your mega's rely on fleet support. You trade one or 2 things...buts its all good since in a fleet it probably is covered...in abundance. I have tackleless frigates for example....15 mofo's tackling 1 less tackle not end of world. Not fitting tackle on a wolf....I go MSE and full lows to damage mods and stuff dies much faster. Say 12 ships and my missing tackle lost the fight....something about that was lost already. and it wasn't my fit. I have seen your mega ideas for a while, probably why we saw the nerfs since many like you said if we want to go fast...old school fits won't work. . When one drops the classic ideology of BSs must have dps and ehp....magic happens. For these people who disagree, google blops fits. Many,besides redeemer, get neither ehp or dps. you get creative in these cases....sometimes it works really well. Same applies to T1. Or some fun and interesting gank vindi fits. These came out of nowhere....jacked your ass up...and disappeared. High ehp ,bash style classic fits they were not. This is exactly right. You can fit your mega to have some of the stats of a T1 cruiser if you always fly in a fleet. You could fit it with fireworks and youd still do okay in a fleet. Its incorrect to say that battleships should not be dps / tank because thats exactly their role apart from a few specialized ones. T1 battleships are only good at dps / tank. Everything else is subpar to.smaller hulls. Blops are different. Apart from dropping on solo ships theyre almost always accompanied by support ships to do the majority of dps and usually the role is one of gank.
This is an example of an unimaginative player not understanding an entire class of hulls because they are unwilling to try something new or are unwilling to think for themselves.
|
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2423
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 09:42:51 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced???
I do. I'm not one that supports bad changes even if that change would benefit me. Why at least I say you are a fair man. Same myself , I have -1'd a few because if implemented I know for sure I'd have some fun. Start to play with derived values, i.e. not the ones on the top screen of fitting tool of choice, sometime you find new recipes that are quite fun. Or as I am almost sure your mega's rely on fleet support. You trade one or 2 things...buts its all good since in a fleet it probably is covered...in abundance. I have tackleless frigates for example....15 mofo's tackling 1 less tackle not end of world. Not fitting tackle on a wolf....I go MSE and full lows to damage mods and stuff dies much faster. Say 12 ships and my missing tackle lost the fight....something about that was lost already. and it wasn't my fit. I have seen your mega ideas for a while, probably why we saw the nerfs since many like you said if we want to go fast...old school fits won't work. . When one drops the classic ideology of BSs must have dps and ehp....magic happens. For these people who disagree, google blops fits. Many,besides redeemer, get neither ehp or dps. you get creative in these cases....sometimes it works really well. Same applies to T1. Or some fun and interesting gank vindi fits. These came out of nowhere....jacked your ass up...and disappeared. High ehp ,bash style classic fits they were not. This is exactly right. You can fit your mega to have some of the stats of a T1 cruiser if you always fly in a fleet. You could fit it with fireworks and youd still do okay in a fleet. Its incorrect to say that battleships should not be dps / tank because thats exactly their role apart from a few specialized ones. T1 battleships are only good at dps / tank. Everything else is subpar to.smaller hulls. Blops are different. Apart from dropping on solo ships theyre almost always accompanied by support ships to do the majority of dps and usually the role is one of gank. This is an example of an unimaginative player not understanding an entire class of hulls because they are unwilling to try something new or are unwilling to think for themselves. I lolled in real life. Thank you for that.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
556
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 14:01:03 -
[68] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is an example of an unimaginative player not understanding an entire class of hulls because they are unwilling to try something new or are unwilling to think for themselves.
I am very curious on your own take at 'understanding' the whole Battleship class.
I understand you flew a Mega with equal or superior speed to an Assault Frigate gang in the past - With cruiser equivalent tank and firepower (less application) and lets face it, abysmal scan resolution, so vastly inferior to the AF in that regard. But yet, a nice token Battleship in a fast roam.
Now, please enlighten us on the many secret ways and outstandingly different roles and out-of-the-box uses of Battleships?
Uses that that will actually work with BS bonuses and utilities. If it is reduced to frigate dps and cruiser tank, what is then the point, isn't it? Except for bait ofc.
And yeah, I can imagine a mining BS, smarties fit or a small/medium unbonused weapon fits.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
|
Worthy Angel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 16:19:33 -
[69] - Quote
I would get rid of lone warp speed rigs/modules altogether, and simply tie the bonus into overdrive injectors and thruster rigs, giving them slightly more utility over nanofibers and polycarbon rigs, which I believe are generally used over the former in most situations. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17982
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 16:30:35 -
[70] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is an example of an unimaginative player not understanding an entire class of hulls because they are unwilling to try something new or are unwilling to think for themselves.
I am very curious on your own take at 'understanding' the whole Battleship class. I understand you flew a Mega with equal or superior speed to an Assault Frigate gang in the past - With cruiser equivalent tank and firepower (less application) and lets face it, abysmal scan resolution, so vastly inferior to the AF in that regard. But yet, a nice token Battleship in a fast roam. Now, please enlighten us on the many secret ways and outstandingly different roles and out-of-the-box uses of Battleships? Uses that that will actually work with BS bonuses and utilities. If it is reduced to frigate dps and cruiser tank, what is then the point, isn't it? Except for bait ofc. And yeah, I can imagine a mining BS, smarties fit or a small/medium unbonused weapon fits.
Nano MJD hyperion. Very long range, designed to bait tackle into chasing it where upon it will snipe it. When tackle gets too close it MJD's out, blaps a few more targets then warps. Bonkers to fly and silly effective.
The trap card raven. Armour tanked raven with mids full of webs and tackle with rapid lights in the highs ad neuts. Designed to rip frigates a new one and lets face it, what frigate gang wont go for a solo raven.
Roaming mega, fitted as normal only one rig replace with a hyperspacial, 2x implants to hit 3au/sec, magic web and blasters. Will be able to kill even interceptors.
Super cane. Like the cane of old, only larger. Tempest fitted like the old cane. Fast, nasty, cheap.
Violence brick. Smartboming rokh, also comes with a mjd for the ability to make people rage by vaporizing the tackle frigates then moonwalking into the night.
Ludicrous speedster. Its a mach, a mach that will go 11 AU/sec yet loses none of its tank or firepower.
I could keep on going with fit after fit for the next week. The only problem with battleships is that people think they are no good so don't try them. |
|
Lando Tarsadan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 17:43:42 -
[71] - Quote
As this has to do with fleet warp speeds. why not make it a passive boosted option ? a leadership skill warpdrive warfare adds 0.2 warp au pr level ? and if people wanted to boost it even more warpdrive specialist where the module added another 0,2 pr skill level. for BC and BS |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
808
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 19:23:44 -
[72] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I could keep on going with fit after fit for the next week. The only problem with battleships is that people think they are no good so don't try them.
I think another issue is for many the fleet sanctioned BS fits became too much of an overriding idea of how to fit a bs.
Which is odd for a few reasons. Based on the few homes I was in the BS fits tended be generic. And often based on a clear assumption they would roll out with caps or when in space poor homes...other BS'. Cruisers and frigs can be faster and it was okay...they were scouts lol. better them than us finding a camp to die in.. When your primary partner you are rolling out with is as slow as you if not slower....speed not really factored in. As seen a few times it was not liked even. the unlucky in a BS who landed on pos first to be instapopped scenario.
Other reason is after the called op done, people readily switched to non fleet more fun fit cruisers, bc's, etc on their fun roams. Fleet fits to me can be a simple case of check mark in the box to get FRP/SRP. Want the FRP/SRP...run the fleet fit. Fun roams not covered under this usually...so you ditch the vanilla for the fun stuff.
Looking at eve over the years we saw for example armour tankers going shield fit on roams. Fixed a few issues with them...and the effect warranted not using their real tank. Concessions made here...but that never followed to the BS' for some.
Like with your caldari BS ideas...I can or have seen them work (smarty rokh a mainstay of eve, your raven is new looking to me...and looks very interesting).
Caldari tends to make you creative I found while flying them. When not EHP or DPS monsters by an large...screw it, lets get creative. Accept you will never be at levels of the other races (instant hit of guns for raven or scorpion, or in rokhs case no boost to damage from damage, tracking, rof per level bonus), move on and play with some things. |
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2424
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 23:19:21 -
[73] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is an example of an unimaginative player not understanding an entire class of hulls because they are unwilling to try something new or are unwilling to think for themselves.
I am very curious on your own take at 'understanding' the whole Battleship class. I understand you flew a Mega with equal or superior speed to an Assault Frigate gang in the past - With cruiser equivalent tank and firepower (less application) and lets face it, abysmal scan resolution, so vastly inferior to the AF in that regard. But yet, a nice token Battleship in a fast roam. Now, please enlighten us on the many secret ways and outstandingly different roles and out-of-the-box uses of Battleships? Uses that that will actually work with BS bonuses and utilities. If it is reduced to frigate dps and cruiser tank, what is then the point, isn't it? Except for bait ofc. And yeah, I can imagine a mining BS, smarties fit or a small/medium unbonused weapon fits. Nano MJD hyperion. Very long range, designed to bait tackle into chasing it where upon it will snipe it. When tackle gets too close it MJD's out, blaps a few more targets then warps. Bonkers to fly and silly effective. The trap card raven. Armour tanked raven with mids full of webs and tackle with rapid lights in the highs ad neuts. Designed to rip frigates a new one and lets face it, what frigate gang wont go for a solo raven. Roaming mega, fitted as normal only one rig replace with a hyperspacial, 2x implants to hit 3au/sec, magic web and blasters. Will be able to kill even interceptors. Super cane. Like the cane of old, only larger. Tempest fitted like the old cane. Fast, nasty, cheap. Violence brick. Smartboming rokh, also comes with a mjd for the ability to make people rage by vaporizing the tackle frigates then moonwalking into the night. Ludicrous speedster. Its a mach, a mach that will go 11 AU/sec yet loses none of its tank or firepower. I could keep on going with fit after fit for the next week. The only problem with battleships is that people think they are no good so don't try them. I just looked at your kills since 2010 on Zkill for Baltec1 and I don't see any of these amazing uses of the battleship. Only solo kills in purifiers and the odd solo cruiser kill. It appears you've never actually killed anything in a battleship by yourself.....
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17986
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 07:22:24 -
[74] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I just looked at your kills since 2010 on Zkill for Baltec1 and I don't see any of these amazing uses of the battleship. Only solo kills in purifiers and the odd solo cruiser kill. It appears you've never actually killed anything in a battleship by yourself.....
Yep because zkill is the be all and end all of assessing people skill Its fairly well known I know my battleships and I have a reputation in null for making them do things you consider impossible. You on the other hand are well known for not understanding the game much at all.
Infinity Ziona wrote: Oh I set up your Armor Raven then I set up a Cerb to perform the role as well:
Why would you bother with a Raven? Comedy ?
And what frigate is going to engage a solo cerb in this day and age? Its a trap card, they are far more likely to attack a solo raven and will not be expecting it to rain down rapid lights, nuets and have enough webs and tackle to hold multiple ships down. The armour tank keeps them in place because they see the shields going down which must mean they are killing it. |
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2424
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 08:46:17 -
[75] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I just looked at your kills since 2010 on Zkill for Baltec1 and I don't see any of these amazing uses of the battleship. Only solo kills in purifiers and the odd solo cruiser kill. It appears you've never actually killed anything in a battleship by yourself.....
Yep because zkill is the be all and end all of assessing people skill Its fairly well known I know my battleships and I have a reputation in null for making them do things you consider impossible. You on the other hand are well known for not understanding the game much at all. Infinity Ziona wrote: Oh I set up your Armor Raven then I set up a Cerb to perform the role as well:
Why would you bother with a Raven? Comedy ?
And what frigate is going to engage a solo cerb in this day and age? Its a trap card, they are far more likely to attack a solo raven and will not be expecting it to rain down rapid lights, nuets and have enough webs and tackle to hold multiple ships down. The armour tank keeps them in place because they see the shields going down which must mean they are killing it. It was fairly well known Rolf Harris was a good guy too. The evidence though suggests you have never managed to kill anything in a battleship solo and you mostly fly purifiers to solo....
Me on the other hand I have actually killed people in battleships solo and been killed in battleships solo, I toured a Rokh right around the entire null map once without dying, I mined my first BS, a tempest in 2003 in a mining Rax, I know exactly how battleships perform because I have had to learn since I soloed almost exclusively in them since 2003.
When it became pointless to use them I changed to the Proteus old skool battleship, which is essentially what the Proteus is in all but name and fitting size, threw a XL shield booster on it (despite the lols from you and others with narrow minds) and camped a deep null alliance gaining 32 kills for two losses.
I use my imagination, however your fits are terrible for a number of reasons:
1 : For most your dps is hit way to hard and equal at best to a frigate
2 : For the fits you suggested using battleship weapons a single rig will not allow you to roam or force an engagement and EvE is all about enforcing engagements because people only take engagements they think they know they can win.
3: While Smartbomb battleships do work they're hardly worth using given the lack of people warping gate to gate and they're dead in the water out of 6km range. Alone they will not pop a frigate in the time it takes to align and warp if it fits 1 dcu.
4: You rely exclusively on other people to perform the roles that a battleship is crippled by. You fly around on the coat tails of others pretending your mega is contributing substantially. You'd be better off in an arty thrasher though.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
808
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 22:26:08 -
[76] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
4: You rely exclusively on other people to perform the roles that a battleship is crippled by. You fly around on the coat tails of others pretending your mega is contributing substantially. You'd be better off in an arty thrasher though.
Its gets the BS out and about though. In the meta of speed that has BS not liked....its better than nothing really. he is woking with what the system gives.
As, well, this is not most likely going to change. Warp speed was dropped as a form of balance. BS slow, cruiser bit faster, frigate faster than that.
That and kind of a bad argument as these cruiser/frig roams tend to work under the same setup. Unless a themed only this hac roam or some of you all are RP'ing hard and its Amarr or go go home fleet nights....I gather a few comps out there mix it up (ship type, race, specs of the ships). And these mixes cover shortcomings of the other ships in fleet.
yes another ship could be better granted. But oh well...any x up fleet is still another player. Plus hating to go caod route...his crew at least when I banged heads with them was never short of x ups for fleets. Fleet could have its required "normal" requirements met anyway. Some FC's once they have that met...are down with the off the wall fits. Not all crews have to boost to 100% tax rate to get people to stop ratting and in fleets lol. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 23:35:08 -
[77] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I just looked at your kills since 2010 on Zkill for Baltec1 and I don't see any of these amazing uses of the battleship. Only solo kills in purifiers and the odd solo cruiser kill. It appears you've never actually killed anything in a battleship by yourself.....
Yep because zkill is the be all and end all of assessing people skill Its fairly well known I know my battleships and I have a reputation in null for making them do things you consider impossible. You on the other hand are well known for not understanding the game much at all. Infinity Ziona wrote: Oh I set up your Armor Raven then I set up a Cerb to perform the role as well:
Why would you bother with a Raven? Comedy ?
And what frigate is going to engage a solo cerb in this day and age? Its a trap card, they are far more likely to attack a solo raven and will not be expecting it to rain down rapid lights, nuets and have enough webs and tackle to hold multiple ships down. The armour tank keeps them in place because they see the shields going down which must mean they are killing it.
I realize that this will invalidate much of what I am saying... but Baltec1 you are a pig.
How are you qualified to talk about warp speed given that you don't roam in BS or BC?
Anyone that disagrees with your is either stupid or misinformed. God forbid we don't see the game the same way the mighty baltec does.
And your killboard does fuckin suck. You are all gob. Your fits are ridiculous, and also I have yet to run across any of them despite (unlike you) being on thousands of BS killmails.
You argue against other peoples suggestions with the rationale that they are 'bad' or not necessary. When someone confronts you about your abilities in the game you insult them.
My argument around buffing warp speeds for BS and BC is to hopefully see a return to these ships in low sec and 0.0 in roaming groups. If you take out a small gang of these ships people tend to commit and turn up to shoot them, the issue is the amount of time it takes to cover a reasonable amount of space to hopefully run into something.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17992
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 00:52:29 -
[78] - Quote
Called a pig and compared to rolf harris yet I'm the one insulting people
Why exactly should I be nice to you people?
The reason this is a **** plan has been explained, buff the BS to cruiser speed and you get cruiser pilots demanding faster warp speeds, buff them and you have frigate pilots demanding faster warp speeds. Buff them and you are not only back to where you started but you have just made in system warp distances meaningless.
To get a battleship up to 3au requires just one rig slot and 2 implants (I have said this multiple times) which is just one fitting slot on your ship. If using that one rig slot is too much sacrifice for you then your fitting abilities are indeed poor. |
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2427
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:19:03 -
[79] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Called a pig and compared to rolf harris yet I'm the one insulting people Why exactly should I be nice to you people? The reason this is a **** plan has been explained, buff the BS to cruiser speed and you get cruiser pilots demanding faster warp speeds, buff them and you have frigate pilots demanding faster warp speeds. Buff them and you are not only back to where you started but you have just made in system warp distances meaningless. To get a battleship up to 3au requires just one rig slot and 2 implants (I have said this multiple times) which is just one fitting slot on your ship. If using that one rig slot is too much sacrifice for you then your fitting abilities are indeed poor. I didn't compare you to Rolf Harris, I made an observation to the effect that opinion and reality are sometimes different. You clearly are a decent EvE pilot and I use a number of your fits myself but being good in a battleship requires not only understanding the battleships strengths but experiencing its weaknesses too.
1) Take a megathron out solo and experience how its lock speed ensures you miss every lock you attempt on any non battleship size. 2) Put an improved cloak on a frigate and warp into a belt and try to lock something, you will, now do that with a battleship (hopefully the guys asleep as you hang there waiting to come out of warp) try to lock him, make a coffee while you wait, it'll take a while. 3) Fit a BS sized energy nuet on your mega, try to cap out a frigate with it. Its a 24 second cycle so its completely useless 4) Sick your unbonused warriors on an interceptor, watch them pop while it flies around you outside of smartbomb range, evading your blasters, ignoring your 24 second nuet, while your scrambled and helpless.
There are so many issues with battleships, there were before the nerf to warp speed, they're only really good in a fleet with logi, apart from a few such as a bhaalgorn, mach, dom etc and those are only good because they have certain things which are not reliant on BS specific weaponry and stats (nuets, speed, drones).
You might be tempted to say, well, battleships aren't supposed to be without support. Why not? I can kill people with a Prot without support, its does it better than a battleship. I can kill someone with a Svipul without support, pretty much anything of equal size and lower most of the time will die to a competent Sivpul. I can even use a carrier to pop subcaps without support. But not a battleship because its **** :)
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
398
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:28:48 -
[80] - Quote
Everyone knows you don't use large neuts on small ships because of the cycle time... |
|
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:29:17 -
[81] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Called a pig and compared to rolf harris yet I'm the one insulting people Why exactly should I be nice to you people? The reason this is a **** plan has been explained, buff the BS to cruiser speed and you get cruiser pilots demanding faster warp speeds, buff them and you have frigate pilots demanding faster warp speeds. Buff them and you are not only back to where you started but you have just made in system warp distances meaningless. To get a battleship up to 3au requires just one rig slot and 2 implants (I have said this multiple times) which is just one fitting slot on your ship. If using that one rig slot is too much sacrifice for you then your fitting abilities are indeed poor.
Actually you do look a bit like Rolf, just need a beard.
Yes you have said that a BS needs one rig and 2 implants. Shut up about that. We have already explained why that is not acceptable. Why don't you say it again though. My first post noted that this was possible and why it was not reasonable.
The game wasn't broken for the 10 years when everything went at 3.0
FFS just asking for BS and BC's to get a small buff. Why don't you suggest the cruisers can then fit 1 rig and 2 implants to keep up. Fuckwit.
IT IS TAKING TOO LONG TO ROAM DECENT DISTANCES IN BC AND BS WITHOUT UNACCEPTABLE FITTING NERFS, this has lead to a decline in their use unless launched from a titan or through a WH.
Why don't you come up with some other ****** fittings for BS in the game, you could suggest a Mega with an ******* in the mid slots but clearly you already fly that ship.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17993
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:30:25 -
[82] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I didn't compare you to Rolf Harris, I made an observation to the effect that opinion and reality are sometimes different. You clearly are a decent EvE pilot and I use a number of your fits myself but being good in a battleship requires not only understanding the battleships strengths but experiencing its weaknesses too.
1) Take a megathron out solo and experience how its lock speed ensures you miss every lock you attempt on any non battleship size. 2) Put an improved cloak on a frigate and warp into a belt and try to lock something, you will, now do that with a battleship (hopefully the guys asleep as you hang there waiting to come out of warp) try to lock him, make a coffee while you wait, it'll take a while. 3) Fit a BS sized energy nuet on your mega, try to cap out a frigate with it. Its a 24 second cycle so its completely useless 4) Sick your unbonused warriors on an interceptor, watch them pop while it flies around you outside of smartbomb range, evading your blasters, ignoring your 24 second nuet, while your scrambled and helpless.
There are so many issues with battleships, there were before the nerf to warp speed, they're only really good in a fleet with logi, apart from a few such as a bhaalgorn, mach, dom etc and those are only good because they have certain things which are not reliant on BS specific weaponry and stats (nuets, speed, drones).
The only problem with the battleships you are flying is that you are flying them. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:31:12 -
[83] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I didn't compare you to Rolf Harris, I made an observation to the effect that opinion and reality are sometimes different. You clearly are a decent EvE pilot and I use a number of your fits myself but being good in a battleship requires not only understanding the battleships strengths but experiencing its weaknesses too.
1) Take a megathron out solo and experience how its lock speed ensures you miss every lock you attempt on any non battleship size. 2) Put an improved cloak on a frigate and warp into a belt and try to lock something, you will, now do that with a battleship (hopefully the guys asleep as you hang there waiting to come out of warp) try to lock him, make a coffee while you wait, it'll take a while. 3) Fit a BS sized energy nuet on your mega, try to cap out a frigate with it. Its a 24 second cycle so its completely useless 4) Sick your unbonused warriors on an interceptor, watch them pop while it flies around you outside of smartbomb range, evading your blasters, ignoring your 24 second nuet, while your scrambled and helpless.
There are so many issues with battleships, there were before the nerf to warp speed, they're only really good in a fleet with logi, apart from a few such as a bhaalgorn, mach, dom etc and those are only good because they have certain things which are not reliant on BS specific weaponry and stats (nuets, speed, drones).
The only problem with the battleships you are flying is that you are flying them.
Well at least I actually fly them stealth bomber boy |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17993
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:34:44 -
[84] - Quote
Maraner wrote: IT IS TAKING TOO LONG TO ROAM DECENT DISTANCES IN BC AND BS WITHOUT UNACCEPTABLE FITTING NERFS, this has lead to a decline in their use unless launched from a titan or through a WH.
Yea no.
If you cannot face the loss of one rig slot then you have no business being in a battleship. You being bad and impatient does not mean CCP should screw up the game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17993
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:36:30 -
[85] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
Well at least I actually fly them stealth bomber boy
Look up some EVE history before you try that, it will stop you from looking as stupid as you just did. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:42:15 -
[86] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: IT IS TAKING TOO LONG TO ROAM DECENT DISTANCES IN BC AND BS WITHOUT UNACCEPTABLE FITTING NERFS, this has lead to a decline in their use unless launched from a titan or through a WH.
Yea no. If you cannot face the loss of one rig slot then you have no business being in a battleship. You being bad and impatient does not mean CCP should screw up the game.
Yea no. I thought you said it was a rig and 2 implants (like 500 hundred ******* times).
The game wasn't screwed up for the 10 years we all flew around at 3.0AU, or do you disagree?
These ship warp too slowly and therefore are not seen in space out on roams as much as they were. Right or wrong, fitting choice or not that was one of the outcomes of the nerf to warp speed. Along with the other disadvantages of the class they are becoming scarce.
The lock times are bad (why don't you suggest I fit a sebo, because that had not occurred), the tracking is terrible ( you could suggest I fit a tracking computer or use some implants at this point) and there are many other issues with these ships.
I am asking for a buff irrespective of the rigs, modules and implants available. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:47:16 -
[87] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
Well at least I actually fly them stealth bomber boy
Look up some EVE history before you try that, it will stop you from looking as stupid as you just did.
Please... get over yourself. If you are having trouble with that you could fit an implant. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
398
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 01:54:31 -
[88] - Quote
Now that the tears and bad words have come out, the lock will be coming shortly.
Such a waste. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17994
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 02:00:42 -
[89] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
Yea no. I thought you said it was a rig and 2 implants (like 500 hundred ******* times).
You are bitching about losing fittings, last I checked implants are not fittings.
Maraner wrote: The game wasn't screwed up for the 10 years we all flew around at 3.0AU, or do you disagree?
Change happened and for a reason, I and people like me have adapted.
Maraner wrote:
These ship warp too slowly and therefore are not seen in space out on roams as much as they were.
Rubbish. There are more battleships running around today than a few years ago. Battleships have not been widespread in roams since they added tracking and stacking penalties. Battleships in fleets haven't been a big thing since the arrival of T3C and massed bomb runs. Warp speed has no impact on battleship usage
Maraner wrote: The lock times are bad (why don't you suggest I fit a sebo, because that had not occurred), the tracking is terrible ( you could suggest I fit a tracking computer or use some implants at this point) and there are many other issues with these ships.
I am asking for a buff irrespective of the rigs, modules and implants available.
And you wont get it. You have just demonstrated where the problem is and its not with the battleships. You are the person that will complain about tracking while turret battleships are killing interceptors, complain about locking times while people are running around in solo dreadnoughts, complaining about warp speed wile people are roaming in carriers and complaining about heavy neuts while the heavy neut geddon is one of the most feared ships out there.
This demand of yours is dead in the water. |
Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Infensus
839
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 02:31:28 -
[90] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Now that the tears and bad words have come out, the lock will be coming shortly.
Such a waste.
And nothing of value was lost. |
|
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 02:48:06 -
[91] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
And you wont get it. You have just demonstrated where the problem is and its not with the battleships. You are the person that will complain about tracking while turret battleships are killing interceptors, complain about locking times while people are running around in solo dreadnoughts, complaining about warp speed wile people are roaming in carriers and complaining about heavy neuts while the heavy neut geddon is one of the most feared ships out there.
This demand of yours is dead in the water.
I did not complain about roaming carriers, solo dreds, heavy neuts or the neut geddon. So stop adding things that I did not say Rolf.
I am asking for a small buff to BS and BC warp speed which you seem to think is akin to frigate tracking on a Titan!
Why are you so obsessed with striking down every single thread on buffs to T1 ships? Why do you have such a rabid and fixated world view that you cannot just post something such as "I disagree" and just go **** off and fly another bomber?
|
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2428
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 08:49:32 -
[92] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I didn't compare you to Rolf Harris, I made an observation to the effect that opinion and reality are sometimes different. You clearly are a decent EvE pilot and I use a number of your fits myself but being good in a battleship requires not only understanding the battleships strengths but experiencing its weaknesses too.
1) Take a megathron out solo and experience how its lock speed ensures you miss every lock you attempt on any non battleship size. 2) Put an improved cloak on a frigate and warp into a belt and try to lock something, you will, now do that with a battleship (hopefully the guys asleep as you hang there waiting to come out of warp) try to lock him, make a coffee while you wait, it'll take a while. 3) Fit a BS sized energy nuet on your mega, try to cap out a frigate with it. Its a 24 second cycle so its completely useless 4) Sick your unbonused warriors on an interceptor, watch them pop while it flies around you outside of smartbomb range, evading your blasters, ignoring your 24 second nuet, while your scrambled and helpless.
There are so many issues with battleships, there were before the nerf to warp speed, they're only really good in a fleet with logi, apart from a few such as a bhaalgorn, mach, dom etc and those are only good because they have certain things which are not reliant on BS specific weaponry and stats (nuets, speed, drones).
The only problem with the battleships you are flying is that you are flying them. Exactly. And the ones you think are fine, you aren't flying.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
1040
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 18:17:37 -
[93] - Quote
Maraner wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow. No ships are 'naturally slow' this is a choice that CCP are placing on us. Which universe would you prefer to inhabit, one where you warp around quickly or at least reasonably or one where it takes 2 minutes in a freighter to cross the system. I'm not asking for interceptor speed for BS and BC hulls. I am asking for a return to how the game ran for nearly 10 years. It wasn't broken then. Does anyone actually like warping around at these speeds in large ships? ask yourself would the game be more fun and exciting if warp time was reduced or not.
I bet you got podded by santo and you are salty that his sin/prot landed on a moon before your pod and blapped your ass or something similar.
Nah mate, slow warp speeds on certain ships make this game more intersting.
Warp speed changes was one of the best changes CCP made.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 20:52:10 -
[94] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Maraner wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow. No ships are 'naturally slow' this is a choice that CCP are placing on us. Which universe would you prefer to inhabit, one where you warp around quickly or at least reasonably or one where it takes 2 minutes in a freighter to cross the system. I'm not asking for interceptor speed for BS and BC hulls. I am asking for a return to how the game ran for nearly 10 years. It wasn't broken then. Does anyone actually like warping around at these speeds in large ships? ask yourself would the game be more fun and exciting if warp time was reduced or not. I bet you got podded by santo and you are salty that his sin/prot landed on a moon before your pod and blapped your ass or something similar. Nah mate, slow warp speeds on certain ships make this game more intersting. Warp speed changes was one of the best changes CCP made.
Not suggesting a jump in pod warp speed at all!
Also very happy that smaller ships got a buff and warp faster, no issue there.
But the nerf to BS and BC was ridiculous. They had moved around at 3.0 for over 10 years then all of a sudden they didnt. At that point gangs of mixed ship types started to disappear. I'm not asking for anything unbalanced, just a small nudge for BS and BC so they can at least move around together and roam a reasonable distance in a couple of hours.
|
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 22:28:49 -
[95] - Quote
The decision to have different warp speeds have allowed smaller ships to shine where before it was bring the biggest thing you could fly.
Now larger ships are good for local defense but extended roams are better for smaller ships.
Things are much better now. |
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 22:33:50 -
[96] - Quote
Maraner wrote: ...But the nerf to BS and BC was ridiculous. They had moved around at 3.0 for over 10 years then all of a sudden they didnt. At that point gangs of mixed ship types started to disappear. I'm not asking for anything unbalanced, just a small nudge for BS and BC so they can at least move around together and roam a reasonable distance in a couple of hours.
I would say the nerf to BS and BC was about right.
Keep in mind any change will not be liked by someone as in; not changing anything, by making BS and BC a bit faster, by reversing the change, or by making BS and BC even faster than smaller ships.
There will be someone who will complain about each of those changes, and since not too many are complaining now, there is no reason to change things and **** someone else off.
|
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2430
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 03:46:12 -
[97] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Maraner wrote: ...But the nerf to BS and BC was ridiculous. They had moved around at 3.0 for over 10 years then all of a sudden they didnt. At that point gangs of mixed ship types started to disappear. I'm not asking for anything unbalanced, just a small nudge for BS and BC so they can at least move around together and roam a reasonable distance in a couple of hours.
I would say the nerf to BS and BC was about right. Keep in mind any change will not be liked by someone as in; not changing anything, by making BS and BC a bit faster, by reversing the change, or by making BS and BC even faster than smaller ships. There will be someone who will complain about each of those changes, and since not too many are complaining now, there is no reason to change things and **** someone else off. Explain why you think they were about right. What negative effect did the original warp speed of 3.0au have?
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1383
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 05:47:26 -
[98] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:The decision to have different warp speeds have allowed smaller ships to shine where before it was bring the biggest thing you could fly.
Now larger ships are good for local defense but extended roams are better for smaller ships.
Things are much better now.
In what way?
Let's take a look at my favorite battleship (not bs, my Raven has never been bullsh-), the Raven - a once very much feared battleship that made the band of developers cry rivers.
Anyhow, the length of the Raven is 1100m and she has a mass of 99.000.000t of mass, warp speed current 2.0AU/s.
How about a comparison to another Caldari hull, the Chimera.
Lenght 11.5km, mass 1.3b t, warp speed 1.5AU/s (???????????????????????????????????).
While the warp speed wasn't the only thing that was changed, the deceleration was too. Even if we would get my Raven to warp at 3.0AU/s, she still would slow down slower than a frigate would and only parts of the longer travel times would be better.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
809
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 06:59:29 -
[99] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
Let's take a look at my favorite battleship (not bs, my Raven has never been bullsh-), the Raven - a once very much feared battleship that made the band of developers cry .
Cavalry Raven was dead and buried long before this. Tiercide did nothing but give tiers new names...ssdd. The corpse of cavalry Raven...stayed in the ground. Well price increases a change lol...minimal 30 mil per hull rise eyeballing the days right after. At some point Rokh preferred for general use. This expanded later with hybrid buff, blaster Rokh got a following even for sr work. Not a blasterthron but much better than it was in the past all the same.
caps lose time on the warp start up. They align like cows even on straightish shots. It's probably a caveat of jump fatigue. Unless buddied up with a Webber, that cap will land on gate long after you regardless.
|
Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2430
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 10:53:07 -
[100] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:oiukhp Muvila wrote:The decision to have different warp speeds have allowed smaller ships to shine where before it was bring the biggest thing you could fly.
Now larger ships are good for local defense but extended roams are better for smaller ships.
Things are much better now. In what way? Let's take a look at my favorite battleship (not bs, my Raven has never been bullsh-), the Raven - a once very much feared battleship that made the band of developers cry rivers. Anyhow, the length of the Raven is 1100m and she has a mass of 99.000.000t of mass, warp speed current 2.0AU/s. How about a comparison to another Caldari hull, the Chimera. Lenght 11.5km, mass 1.3b t, warp speed 1.5AU/s (???????????????????????????????????). While the warp speed wasn't the only thing that was changed, the deceleration was too. Even if we would get my Raven to warp at 3.0AU/s, she still would slow down slower than a frigate would and only parts of the longer travel times would be better. Yeah I'm a little confused with this.
(1) Way before the warp changes smaller ships we're still preferred to larger for roaming since they had a much better align time, a much better scan res, a much better sig radius, a much higher base speed.
(2) Even if what the above says was true which it's not, smaller ships got faster, only larger ships got slower so the net effect even without a nerf to larger ship warp speed, the smaller ships would have become even better at roaming while they larger ships would have still sucked at it.
(3) Largers ships are not good for local defense. When a fleet comes to your system nobody undocks a fleet of battleships, they may undock a fleet of Canes, or a fleet of Caracals or T3's or Svipul but its in no way a reflection of larger ships being awesome at home defense because they're generally not.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1383
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 11:13:14 -
[101] - Quote
Hold on, when did the Chimera get shorter??
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
585
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 12:25:50 -
[102] - Quote
I could be wrong but I think Maraner is starting to take this personally. What's the matter? Shadow Cartel not able to put together a big enough blob to put together a battleship roam?
Or is it the prospect of just maybe not having enough batphone if you do get attacked?
You also keep mistakenly correlating the warp speed nerf as the reason people stopped using battleships, not the 'drop everything if it undocks' mentality that certain groups.... like Shadow Cartel.... have adopted, and refuse to 'fight' any other way. Why should people bring battle cruisers and battleships and the like when they know they're 10 man gang is just gonna get dropped by 40 mach's 18 guardians, 5 dreads, 2 carriers, 3 fax, and 2 supers?
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
Umino Iruka
Ultramar Independent Contracting
13
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 18:44:57 -
[103] - Quote
Look...
The main issue here is that the current battleship meta is choking smaller pvp groups heavily - smaller groups who don't have 50 people on standby 24/7 so that they can all just fly swarms of T3 dessies or pirate/t2 frigates.
When it comes to small scale PvP and roams in general, you need fast response ships (they don't even have to be kitey) with enough dps to deal with fights before you get blobbed - something battleships are very capable of doing (including being able to take a hit) except they are too slow to get there in time to be of any use.
So, in order to fix that, you HAVE to fit two T2 hyperspatial rigs to achieve 3AU/s warp speed and what ever agility mods are needed to cut your align time to 8 seconds or preferably less - which is basically trying to turn every battleship in the game into a Machariel...of course, if you do that on an actual Machariel, you get 4.5AU/s speed before any implants....
Slow align and warp speed is also plaguing most battlecruisers which are faster than t1 battleships, but also have fewer fitting slots so it's pretty much the same thing fitting 2 hyperspatials on a BS and 1 hyperspatial on a BC in terms of fit gimping.
While I don't believe all battleships should be fast and agile like the Mach, I believe CCP should make further distinction between attack battleships and combat battleships - combat battleships staying slow as they are right now, but attack battleships gaining better agility and warp speed (notice I'm not asking for more sublight speed, only alignment and warp speed).
3.3AU/s for command ships 3AU/s for attack battlecruisers 2.75AU/s for marauders and blops 2.5AU/s for combat battlecruisers 2.5AU/s for attack battleships 2AU/s for combat battleships
The Machariel would still be king of the hill for kiting and warp speed and agility and hyperspatial rigs would still be a thing, but other battleships and battlecruisers whose ROLE is speed and firepower would have an easier time actually getting to a fight before it's already over.
Would be nice flying more than one ship and not feel like you're doing it wrong, right? |
FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
67
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 01:43:45 -
[104] - Quote
It's not really a problem for battleships to warp slowly. 2.4 au/s would be nice, but it isn't game breaking if they don't get changed. If you want to spend a little isk, two implants and a rig can give you cruiser warp speeds. MJDs, grapplers, and 3200s have gone a long way to making battleships much more powerful than they've been in a long time, and they need to have some downsides. I recently fitted up a nanopest and nanophoon with warp speed rigs and they performed admirably at separating the gangs I wanted to fight long enough for me to get a couple of good kills. Seems like working as intended to me. |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
556
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 02:09:19 -
[105] - Quote
FT Cold wrote:...seems like working as intended to me. Your argument doesn't hold water though: MJD, Grapplers and 3200 Cap Boosters were all introduced quite late AFTER the BS nerf. If anything CCP keep adding stuff to make BS and BC more interesting hoping they won't have to touch at warp speeds. And while these modules give unique capabilities to these specific ships on a on-grid tactical level, it dont do a thing for actually moving the things around.
3200 fitting in Large Cap Boosters is aknowledged by CCP as being unintented, and they are letting it running to see what will happen with this. They don't do anything for BS that don't use them.
Grapplers are nice. But they replace a regular Web or another mod, so it is a trade-off, no gain for the ship class.
MJD are the same: Another trade-off mod, no gain for the class.
Implants/Rigs: Trade-off for something else. No gain for the ship class. Every time someone pop in and say: 'Just use implants, rigs and warp speed mods to make up for it' I laugh. Because you can apply that to ANY ship class, thus making it a no-gain solution for the Battlsehip and Battlecruiser class.
EDIT: CCP did a nice job giving CBC a ship class application bonuses. It helped the CBC actually being competitive against t1 cruisers.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
809
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 03:59:42 -
[106] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: (3) Largers ships are not good for local defense. When a fleet comes to your system nobody undocks a fleet of battleships, they may undock a fleet of Canes, or a fleet of Caracals or T3's or Svipul but its in no way a reflection of larger ships being awesome at home defense because they're generally not.
This, based on the more strict homes I have been in, could be a case of rapid response teams my not have the "sanctioned" fleet FC's on hand. Some places when it comes to bs and higher fleets get touchy about a more senior player taking charge...but not a "proper" FC.
Now before you comment about hac fleets and such...yes...it is a bit tarded. As in in the old day before even tiericide hac and BC pickup fleets (not planned by the powers that be at any rate) could have higher price tags than a BS based one.
One of the things that confused me when in 0.0. 10+ guys DIAF on hac roam...and it okay as long as none of the losses have wtf is that fits. Several BS' do this and its rabble rabble who organized this, where was the 5 paragraph order (military training thing for an any action), the support, the permission asked for...etc. basically wtf was this and don't do it again speech in TS time.
I recall one time long ago a bunch of us really got bored. Saw a dead pos and we said screw it, lets clean it out. Impromptu BS fleet, bashing to clear it. And was even interesting, by bash standards anyway. Slow night so you saw some things out of the usual run of the mill stuff. Even had some take their marauders to smash it since a slow night and skies clear for many many systems around. It was in our ratting mining area...we didn't even travel really to this pos.
Kind of cool since how often do you see torp golems used out of PVE. And this...this got the evil eye when an alliance leader logged in. WTF....stop this now. No ships lost, we took initiative and actually found people to drop their ratting without browbeating and threats...so I was going why the rants speech personally.
Hac roam gone sour for a flip side...and its oh well, what did you kill before you all died? |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
1046
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 11:35:39 -
[107] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:Look...
The main issue here is that the current battleship meta is choking smaller pvp groups heavily - smaller groups who don't have 50 people on standby 24/7 so that they can all just fly swarms of T3 dessies or pirate/t2 frigates.
When it comes to small scale PvP and roams in general, you need fast response ships (they don't even have to be kitey) with enough dps to deal with fights before you get blobbed - something battleships are very capable of doing (including being able to take a hit) except they are too slow to get there in time to be of any use.
So, in order to fix that, you HAVE to fit two T2 hyperspatial rigs to achieve 3AU/s warp speed and what ever agility mods are needed to cut your align time to 8 seconds or preferably less - which is basically trying to turn every battleship in the game into a Machariel...of course, if you do that on an actual Machariel, you get 4.5AU/s speed before any implants....
Slow align and warp speed is also plaguing most battlecruisers which are faster than t1 battleships, but also have fewer fitting slots so it's pretty much the same thing fitting 2 hyperspatials on a BS and 1 hyperspatial on a BC in terms of fit gimping.
While I don't believe all battleships should be fast and agile like the Mach, I believe CCP should make further distinction between attack battleships and combat battleships - combat battleships staying slow as they are right now, but attack battleships gaining better agility and warp speed (notice I'm not asking for more sublight speed, only alignment and warp speed).
3.3AU/s for command ships 3AU/s for attack battlecruisers 2.75AU/s for marauders and blops 2.5AU/s for combat battlecruisers 2.5AU/s for attack battleships 2AU/s for combat battleships
The Machariel would still be king of the hill for kiting and warp speed and agility and hyperspatial rigs would still be a thing, but other battleships and battlecruisers whose ROLE is speed and firepower would have an easier time actually getting to a fight before it's already over.
Would be nice flying more than one ship and not feel like you're doing it wrong, right? I support this.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
304
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 13:33:55 -
[108] - Quote
I would be for increasing warp speed. I dont spend $15 a month so i can watch warp animations. It also makes BC and BS less viable not because they are slower than everything else but because they are terribly slow. So i would be ok with adding the following to base warp speed:
Supers: .25 AU Combat caps: .50 AU Industrial caps: .75 AU
Battleships: 1.25 AU Battlecruisers: 1.75 AU Industrials( including mining ships): 2 AU Cruisers: 2.25 AU Destroyers: 3 AU Frigates: 4 AU Shuttles/pods: 5 AU.( they are basically all engines and life support)
So your battlecruiser would warp at 4.25, a cruiser at 5.25 and a interceptor at 12 AU |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18020
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Posted - 2016.08.27 19:49:22 -
[109] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I would be for increasing warp speed. I dont spend $15 a month so i can watch warp animations. It also makes BC and BS less viable not because they are slower than everything else but because they are terribly slow. So i would be ok with adding the following to base warp speed:
Supers: .25 AU Combat caps: .50 AU Industrial caps: .75 AU
Battleships: 1.25 AU Battlecruisers: 1.75 AU Industrials( including mining ships): 2 AU Cruisers: 2.25 AU Destroyers: 3 AU Frigates: 4 AU Shuttles/pods: 5 AU.( they are basically all engines and life support)
So your battlecruiser would warp at 4.25, a cruiser at 5.25 and a interceptor at 12 AU
As I said, you wind up making warp distances in systems pointless. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
1047
|
Posted - 2016.08.27 22:26:48 -
[110] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I would be for increasing warp speed. I dont spend $15 a month so i can watch warp animations. It also makes BC and BS less viable not because they are slower than everything else but because they are terribly slow. So i would be ok with adding the following to base warp speed:
Supers: .25 AU Combat caps: .50 AU Industrial caps: .75 AU
Battleships: 1.25 AU Battlecruisers: 1.75 AU Industrials( including mining ships): 2 AU Cruisers: 2.25 AU Destroyers: 3 AU Frigates: 4 AU Shuttles/pods: 5 AU.( they are basically all engines and life support)
So your battlecruiser would warp at 4.25, a cruiser at 5.25 and a interceptor at 12 AU Your numbers are absolutely revolting.
Uminos suggestion is decent, yours is garbage and just makes everything worse by drawing ship types together.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Atum' Ra
Nomen-illis-Legio Legion of xXDEATHXx
99
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Posted - 2016.08.28 08:28:26 -
[111] - Quote
Volvo NH15 BP tanker road train like McLaren F1 lol
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Atum' Ra
Nomen-illis-Legio Legion of xXDEATHXx
99
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 08:36:32 -
[112] - Quote
If the ship is slower than other means that it has a great armor/cargo/firepower. When the ship faster - speed requires sacrifice. Great sacrifice! It is possible to think about making Minmatar ships more faster and more vulnerable. Basing on the ratio 20% faster = -30%EHP For now speed is a key for a victory. It afflicts. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
668
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 08:56:50 -
[113] - Quote
Don't all minnie ships already have -30% EHP? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18026
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 09:34:02 -
[114] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Don't all minnie ships already have -30% EHP?
In rust we trust. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
362
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:50:07 -
[115] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:I could be wrong but I think Maraner is starting to take this personally. What's the matter? Shadow Cartel not able to put together a big enough blob to put together a battleship roam?
Or is it the prospect of just maybe not having enough batphone if you do get attacked?
You also keep mistakenly correlating the warp speed nerf as the reason people stopped using battleships, not the 'drop everything if it undocks' mentality that certain groups.... like Shadow Cartel.... have adopted, and refuse to 'fight' any other way. Why should people bring battle cruisers and battleships and the like when they know they're 10 man gang is just gonna get dropped by 40 mach's 18 guardians, 5 dreads, 2 carriers, 3 fax, and 2 supers?
Blob formation not a problem thanks.
The whole point of the thread is a mild buff to BS and BC to enable small (or blob sized) gangs of the larger sub caps to roam further distances than they can at present without unacceptable (yes baltec1 ... unacceptable to me) compromise on rigs or implant sets.
That was all. Just asking for a small buff to the older t1 hulls in the game. You might just see more of them and less fleets of Machs around. There are some good suggestions coming out in the thread so I am glad it is still rolling on. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
362
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:53:17 -
[116] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:Look...
The main issue here is that the current battleship meta is choking smaller pvp groups heavily - smaller groups who don't have 50 people on standby 24/7 so that they can all just fly swarms of T3 dessies or pirate/t2 frigates.
When it comes to small scale PvP and roams in general, you need fast response ships (they don't even have to be kitey) with enough dps to deal with fights before you get blobbed - something battleships are very capable of doing (including being able to take a hit) except they are too slow to get there in time to be of any use.
So, in order to fix that, you HAVE to fit two T2 hyperspatial rigs to achieve 3AU/s warp speed and what ever agility mods are needed to cut your align time to 8 seconds or preferably less - which is basically trying to turn every battleship in the game into a Machariel...of course, if you do that on an actual Machariel, you get 4.5AU/s speed before any implants....
Slow align and warp speed is also plaguing most battlecruisers which are faster than t1 battleships, but also have fewer fitting slots so it's pretty much the same thing fitting 2 hyperspatials on a BS and 1 hyperspatial on a BC in terms of fit gimping.
While I don't believe all battleships should be fast and agile like the Mach, I believe CCP should make further distinction between attack battleships and combat battleships - combat battleships staying slow as they are right now, but attack battleships gaining better agility and warp speed (notice I'm not asking for more sublight speed, only alignment and warp speed).
3.3AU/s for command ships 3AU/s for attack battlecruisers 2.75AU/s for marauders and blops 2.5AU/s for combat battlecruisers 2.5AU/s for attack battleships 2AU/s for combat battleships
The Machariel would still be king of the hill for kiting and warp speed and agility and hyperspatial rigs would still be a thing, but other battleships and battlecruisers whose ROLE is speed and firepower would have an easier time actually getting to a fight before it's already over.
Would be nice flying more than one ship and not feel like you're doing it wrong, right?
That would be a reasonable and potentially interesting change to differentiate between the attack and combat BS. Would still like a bit more....just like my wife.
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Voxinian
101
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Posted - 2016.08.29 12:46:42 -
[117] - Quote
The only BS that needs to be more nimble and faster is the Barghest... as it suposed to be a 'fast' lightweight BS according to the description.
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