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Is CCP a slave to Vista and microsoft?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:12:00 - [181] I'm looking forward to weeks of people linking to this thread and denouncing all those who jumped to conclusions ------ Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) Army of doom headcount: 26,045
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:13:00 - [182] Originally by: Redundancy Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me. Post with your main! Stupid dont have any friends
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:15:00 - [183] Originally by: Redundancy Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me. Ach! Sorry to hear that. Thanks for clearing things up, tho. It's much appreciated. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:27:00 - [184] Edited by: Ealiom on 16/03/2007 10:24:15 I dont want to be the one to say 'told ya so' and slap you all on the back of the head. So i'll bring an alt in to do it for me Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dravin Dread	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:43:00 - [185] Originally by: Dark Shikari I want to know how much Microsoft is paying them for programming the station environment in DirectX10-only code. This is nearly unheard of and absolutely ridiculous. Chances are, CCP is paying MS for access to DX10 and Vista now, through MSDN if nothing else. MS started as a company creating programing laungauges and has never stopped. MS is its own best customer.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:51:00 - [186] Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Xtro 2 Try being cursed like me, i have XP and Vista 64bit editions, in this scenario, Vista is a complete nightmare to maintain. As I understand it, 64 bit drivers (especially graphics ones) are broken more than interdictors in Vista. Might explain that. eh? I run XP x86 and Vista x64 on the same box. It works perfectly. No problem with graphics drivers at all. Indeed Vista now downloads the latest 3rd party drivers for all your hardware from the windows update site (as they now HAVE to be signed off by MS. A good thing IMHO) What make of gfx card are you using? GFX cards are SLI'd - 2x XFX Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB Fastest Clock/Core Speed Model. Vista works for some thigns ok yer, but it certainyl doesnt have all the optimised/correct drivers for everything, it has a large selection yes, but theres still gaping holes, and some drivers are just generic types rather than optimised specific built ones. Ive been using XP x64 more than Vista as it has a better driver base for me, and more of my software works, some have already clashed with Vista, not many but enough. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:54:00 - [187] 64Bit ED Vista with 2 of the new XFX NVidia 8800GTX cards SLI'd actually runs the same or slower than my Win XP32bit using my old 7800card. At least according to 3dmark and some other tools, very minimal differences to be of great benefit, most websites ive read say its probably due to the 8800's 64bit drivers being horrid. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:32:00 - [188] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Actually,it would be a VERY bad idea to go over to open GL.From what I have heard,future versions of windows will no longer have native open GL support. Instead,they will have a direct-x wrapper that translates open gl calls to direct-x. Yes,this will be slower. In the future,open GL will suck on windows machines,which probably means open gl will be dead on windows machines. Will we see direct-x 10 autocad?
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:39:00 - [189] As always the anti Vista brigade make me lmao. Give it 1yr from now and most of you will be running it.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Ka Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 12:45:12 CCP are notorious for being Microsoft shills. They use Microsoft server OSs and even ASP server, even though as a result their forums and web server are incredibly unreliable and slow. They chose the best technology for the job. DirectX 10 was that technology. What your suggesting is that they stay with old technology and in time the game will become dated. Great! The forums and web server being slow had nothing to do with Microsoft technology. Other companies are doing extremely well with it. You appear to be the 'shill' with your biased and uninformed comments. Who are you working for? Sun? IBM? or just an open sores zealot? Paratwa Recruitment

Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:04:00 - [191] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:00:32 Originally by: Gariuys Why is that a huge dissapointment... everybody and their mother develop for windows OS... but your dissapointed cause there's companies out there that both develop for windows OS, AND push the boundaries... yeah big dissapointment there. Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. Not here. I refuse to 'downgrade' to that bloated heap of rubbish they call an OS. Let it die the way of Windows ME. Snip for trolling - Timmeh - 27/3/07 My first mod edit.
MuadChef Amarr Fate.	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:05:00 - [192] maybe people are missing the point of DX10.. it is only available with Windows Vista. That means that the majority of new games will be DirectX 10. But with this comes much better graphics, shaders etc, therefore IMO it is worth paying the Vista Fee for DX10. Also, what would be worse: You have to pay upgrade from XP to Vista (ú70) or CCP turns round and goes.. Sorry guys, "Apple is teh 'uber', to play eve you need OSX..." Think of the change if / when it happens as a move into the future of graphics for games.. I for one would have no problems with this change.. Fate Corp
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:14:00 - [193] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:00:32 Originally by: Gariuys Why is that a huge dissapointment... everybody and their mother develop for windows OS... but your dissapointed cause there's companies out there that both develop for windows OS, AND push the boundaries... yeah big dissapointment there. Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. Not here. I refuse to 'downgrade' to that bloated heap of rubbish they call an OS. Let it die the way of Windows ME. Sure, your just one of the many that whine about a new OS and think it's cool to shout it down. Lets face it, you WILL have to bow down to MS on this one and move on at some stage.... exactly as all the win16 users had too when XP was born.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:22:00 - [194] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Kinda confusing. Ship lovers click here
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:29:00 - [195] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:26:20 Originally by: tiller Sure, your just one of the many that whine about a new OS and think it's cool to shout it down. Lets face it, you WILL have to bow down to MS on this one and move on at some stage.... exactly as all the win16 users had too when XP was born. MS have purposely broken ALL VB programs which access DX8 on Vista. They will NEVER work because MS purposely excluded one single required DLL (dx8vb.dll). They purposely excluded it even though just copying the DLL over allows all those programs to work, MS refuse to allow anyone to do that because 'it will be in breach of the distribution license'. MS won't put the DLL into the MS install package or update, and they wont allow anyone to install it themselves. Intentionally breaking backward compatibility to generate more sales for themselves. Just one example of why Vista should die the way of Windows ME. BTW, I bow down to no one...ever. I use XP and 2k, but if they ever break I'll goto Linux. NO way am I being forced to Vista. Snip for trolling - Timmeh - 27/3/07 My first mod edit.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:37:00 - [196] Trusted Computing and DRM are Microsoft finally shooting itself in the foot with a silver bullet. As much as I will hate learning to use a new OS when half my stuff doesn't work on my computer because it happens to be two years old and not MS certified, when such a huge amount of my computers resources are being used up it effects my gaming, when I can't run the programs I love because MS doesn't like them or they won't pay for certification. Then I will be moving to another OS and sooner or later I won't be in the minority. That is of course if Microsoft survives the lawyers, the EU, trading standards, etc, etc, etc. They are right on the line of legality as it is and pushing harder each patch. An operating system is supposed to be a tool to make using your computer and accessing your programs easier. Somewhere along the line Microsoft seem to have forgotten that. EVE wise I'm glad DX9 will remain supported. I'm pretty sure CCP are well aware of how opinionated and nerdy it's customer base is and will in it's own interests continue to support at least 95% of us.
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:40:00 - [197] Originally by: Fenlaw Wonder why the x-box isn't hdcp compliant.. it does have the optional hd-dvd player..... makes you wonder doesn't it Simple, the xbox 360 doesn't have digital output, only analog, so not useful for people that want to make digital copies of HD content. We're sorry, something happened.
MrBreaker Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.27 13:39:00 - [198] An anti Microsoft, anti Vista thread, I cant let this one go. I have been running Vista RTM since November, the only irk I have is with lower graphics performance, which has less to do with Vista itself than the new driver model. Nvidia and ATi's Vista drivers still aren't up to the XP ones for performance. Apart from that I love Vista, and wouldn't want to lose all the nice little additions by going back to XP. As for Linux, Im sure it has its uses, but the only thing I want to do after installing it is uninstalling it.
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:17:00 - [199] Edited by: jamesw on 27/03/2007 15:14:59 Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Wow. Great read. Up until now I have been a bit "ho hum, next upgrade, whatever" about Vista, but after reading that, no way. No way in hell. Encryption required on basically all traffic between components of the PC?? Perhaps my favourite quote from it: But what if the Vista content-protection technology had instead been applied towards malware protection? Instead of a separate protection domain for video playback, we might have a separate protection domain for banking and credit card details. Instead of specialised anti-debugging technigues to stop users getting at even one frame of protected content, we could have those same techniques combatting malware hooking itself into the OS. The list goes on and on, with all of the effort being misapplied to DRM when it could have been used to combat malware instead. What a waste. What a waste. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:34:00 - [200] Problem with me is: If I use any form of Linux, I need to install a load of software to get it to run like I use XP (I like the interface, and little things). After all of that, it runs just like XP does, minus the MS badge. Only difference with MS OS' is that I have to remove things to make it run like I want. Same outcome (I get them running how I want/like), just different ways of doing it. I've been using Vista for about a month now-ish. I've disabled quite a few of the services I didn't need, and I've disabled the user protection. I've had no issues with playing DVD's or content, or evening playing SACD' over my X-Fi on SPDIF (that article is rubbish DS - bar the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray arguement, ignore most of it). I also notice a lot of users bashing Vista for it's memory usage, which is just Vista reserving memory for your most used programs. You've actualy got all that memory free. It's an ingeinous system. The only reason Vista doesn't perform like my Linux and XP installs, is because of the driver support, which we all know will develop over time. I've not been locked out of any content, or control of my machine. It really just depends if you want to go through the services and registry disabling a few of the things that you don't need for Vista, or want to install all the UI mods and such that you need under Linux. Some of you really are just bashing for bashing's sake. --- Cache Clearer

James Potkukelkka Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:04:00 - [201] I forgot who I heard the joke from, but speaking of vista.. would be kinda fitting if EVE would come in 10 different versions if it did require vista to play. Imagine: EVE home: basic functions EVE business: you have access to market as well EVE student version: you can use research EVE professional: You can fit t2 modules and so on -- dance for life
Soumk	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:06:00 - [202] Anybody with a PC is a slave to Microsoft.
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:12:00 - [203] WTS A CLUE. CCP is making DX9 versions of everything.. seriously can't stand people who make ignorant uninformed posts about things like this.
Reiaandra Ilin	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:23:00 - [204] Edited by: Reiaandra Ilin on 27/03/2007 16:20:56 Vista == evil and not because of the performance hit no because M$ is trying to take control of our computers and what we do with them Bill Gates is a slave to Hollywood even though he holds all the power... maybe CCP should still think about openGl Vista == Big Brother
Regat Kozovv Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:29:00 - [205] Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. I've seen write up posted many times, and I'm always critical of it. It's long, well-written, piece of FUD. He constantly invokes phrases such as "probably" or "it could", as opposed to getting the real facts. And the arguments that DRM protection methods be used to combat malware seem to rank right up there with the misapplied logic that CCP should have content writers fixing bugs. =P I do not like DRM either, but so what if Vista supports it? Vista also happens to run non-DRMed stuff just fine. Bill Gates has even said publicly that if you want music that you can actually do stuff with, then your best bet is to buy a CD and rip it. Don't like DRMed media? Don't buy it. But don't bash Vista just because it supports it. Macs support DRM from Apple, and I don't see people throwing them out. I fail to understand why computer choice has become such a political issue. If you don't like Vista, don't use it. No one's cramming it down your throat. But don't whine and complain if you're in the minority of people who refuse to use it and there's no software being written for you. There's no secret conspiracy to get everyone on the Microsoft boat, just like there was no IBM comspiracy to get everyone using their machines. If CCP decided that they wanted to make DX10 mandatory for the upcoming client, then they are certainly within their means to do so. Certainly it would be a poor decision on their part, and I think they are quite aware of that. But don't suggest that somehow you're entitled to your own build just because you run a different OS. You're not.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:31:00 - [206] Originally by: Reiaandra Ilin Edited by: Reiaandra Ilin on 27/03/2007 16:20:56 Vista == evil and not because of the performance hit no because M$ is trying to take control of our computers and what we do with them Bill Gates is a slave to Hollywood even though he holds all the power... maybe CCP should still think about openGl Vista == Big Brother Maybe you should run linux...
Rhaegor Stormborn	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:36:00 - [207] I could care less about walking in stations, and if that is the only reason to upgrade to vista/directx10 for Eve, I think I will pass. If there are other reasons, like better graphics and smoother gameplay, I will shell ou the money for Vista as I already have an 8800GTS video card.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:12:00 - [208] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Stuff Signed, seconded, agreed. quoted, QFT, IADS and DWDS.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:28:00 - [209] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm looking forward to weeks of people linking to this thread and denouncing all those who jumped to conclusions Hmm... I guess I shall consider myself well and properly denounced I haven't been this glad to be wrong in a long time. Thanks CCP!
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:31:00 - [210] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Kinda confusing. Very confusing indeed. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.



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