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Is CCP a slave to Vista and microsoft?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:30:00 - [1] I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus
UndergrounD Caldari Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:35:00 - [2] Arent CCP keeping an 'EvE light' version for DX9 users when the DX10 version is released? Something like that anyways -----------------------------------------------
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:36:00 - [3] That would be a bad move for CCP. They would lose alot of their player base. Anyway who isnt a slave to M$ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
JabJabVVV Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:37:00 - [4] I think it would be more accurate to say that we are all slaves of Microsoft due to the virtual monopoly they have regarding OS's through windows. As for needing to upgrade to Vista 'to have any real fun in the game'; you won't lose anything if you don't upgrade but you wont get access to some of the new stuff - if you find the game fun now then you will more than likely find the game fun in the future, you just wont be able to see some of the visual bling that will implemented. Most people will probably turn this off anyway to reduce lag ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:38:00 - [5] Games have always pushed forward the frontir on hardware and I'm pretty sure you don't have a problem with upgrading your hardware every x-years to get better graphics and be able to play the latest game titles. Why should an operating system be any different? Windows XP was released in 2002, when the Eve upgrade is released XP will have 6 years on it's back. Direct X 10 won't be released on Windows XP because it uses some of the new features on the Vista platform.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:41:00 - [6] Translation 2008 sometime, the new station walkabout features will need vista. Rest of eve will work as it does just now. No big deal. But I am sure people are going complain and threaten to quit eve over features they dont have and wont get till 2008 (which will be 2009 given CCP's history of delays). Thats logic for ya. -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:41:00 - [7] Why is that a huge dissapointment... everybody and their mother develop for windows OS... but your dissapointed cause there's companies out there that both develop for windows OS, AND push the boundaries... yeah big dissapointment there. Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 12:45:12 CCP are notorious for being Microsoft shills. They use Microsoft server OSs and even ASP server, even though as a result their forums and web server are incredibly unreliable and slow. I want to know how much Microsoft is paying them for programming the station environment in DirectX10-only code. This is nearly unheard of and absolutely ridiculous. CCP promised that they would have an equivalent DirectX9 engine that would do everything the DirectX10 engine did, except without some of the extra effects. Apparently they're a bunch of lying shills. The irony is that if I really end up needing DX10, I'll end up switching to Linux because WINE will run EVE fine --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:51:00 - [9] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 15/03/2007 12:50:10 Originally by: Dark Shikari CCP promised that they would have an equivalent DirectX9 engine that would do everything the DirectX10 engine did, except without some of the extra effects. Apparently they're a bunch of lying shills. I guess Bill Gates has a alt working for CCP then But seriously, its probebly going to be around 2009/2010 when the station features come out, and by then we will all be on DX10 anyway. And even then someone will find a bug to view Station Avatars in a more..... Amusing manner -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Pabs Sco Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:52:00 - [10] Vista sucks and I am glad CCP will keep a DX9 version, if you have ever tried Vista you'll now that on the same PC as XP you get a noticable drop in performance. Vista is buggy as hell (well it is a M$ product), I've just recently upgraded to a FX7600GS (buget is tight) and I will not be upgrading for atleast 2-3 years and before that I need to upgrade the rest of my PC. Graphics have nothing to do with the EvE gameplay and I belive the "Station Walkabout" will be nothing more than glorified GFX with very litle extra features. Vista suck, M$ Suck.... EvE ROCKS! ------

Larshus Magrus Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:55:00 - [11] After reading the above post I think people are confused about DirectX. The features that exist in DirectX 10 can, and have already, been implemented in OpenGL. DirectX isnt some wonder technology that is the end-all be-all of gameplay. Its simply one of the 3D API's that exist. It also happens to be Single OS centric, and on top of that, a single version of a single OS centric. Fact: DirectX 10 is a powerful 3d engine. Fact: OpenGL has been around ALOT longer than DirectX, works on more hardware, more operating systems, and is more extensable than DirectX. Fact: DirectX is more popular because, for the desktop, the average user is computer illiterate and Microsoft capitalizes on this with windows, and bundles DirectX with windows. Its as simple as that. CCP programs in DirectX because its what 90% of the desktop users have access to. Is it the best technological choice? No. Is it the best marketing choice? Absolutely. One thing to consider. 5 years ago Microsoft had 97% of the desktops locked up. Today its 90%. Mac and Linux have made inroads, and both 3D systems there are based on OpenGL. In 5 years if Microsoft falls to 80% share, Game companies will have to take notice. (WoW already has... they supply an OpenGL client now) Until that time, enjoy DirectX.
Scilent Enigma Minmatar SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:56:00 - [12] Well this was a smack in the face, figured CCP was smarter than this now that they are planning to release a MAC and a Linux client aswell. Hope that they get their act together and not shut a large portion of their playerbase out of the new content. (have you seen the price for Vista talk about economic PWNAGE MS style). Anyway, won't be long before there is a vista emulator capable of handling the client on a Linux computer so no biggie. Still a bit bothering that they are actively supporting the OS monopoly and forces those who wont support it to more or less hack the OS and Client just to be able to play with the new content.
Maraude Fury Minmatar Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:58:00 - [13] Edited by: Maraude Fury on 15/03/2007 12:54:30 I do find this kind of a funny topic overall. We all update our drivers when needed to get better performance, or better graphics. We upgrade our hardware to get better graphics or better performance, we up grade our software when a new version comes out to get better performance or access to new features.... Why is upgradeing your OS any different. Personally, I've found that it's better to get a copy of the newest windows OS asap. Why? Becuase then I'll have it for the longest period till the next one comes out. Yes it'll cost you money, yes it's money that could be spent on other items, but the simple fact is, it'll be worth it as most games made in 2007 and on will be designed for Vista as well as XP. Some of the new ones will be Vista only. The flip side is we complain about hundreds of bugs in this game, and we KNOW some of them are related to the ancient code in this game that is designed to support older OS's/Drivers/Hardware. So when they come along and write new code from the ground up, useing the newest OS and the newest DX, why do people complain? You don't want to buy Vista? Then don't. But this won't be the first time you find something that will be vista only. We'll start seeing that more and more over the comeing months. Maraude Fury Shadow Of The Light .SOL.
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:58:00 - [14] When win 95 came out Bill Gates touted that the win platform would be "the" gaming platform and the motivation was their revolutionary Directx engine. This was nothing but a gimmic to lock the gaiming develoment into one OS.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:01:00 - [15] The really funny thing is that CCP is making a Linux and OS X client, which should help about 5% of their users, but noooo they can't make a Windows XP compatible client, locking out 80% of their users --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Maraude Fury Edited by: Maraude Fury on 15/03/2007 12:54:30 I do find this kind of a funny topic overall. We all update our drivers when needed to get better performance, or better graphics. We upgrade our hardware to get better graphics or better performance, we up grade our software when a new version comes out to get better performance or access to new features.... Why is upgradeing your OS any different. . Because i dont use MS OS anymore.... and I dont intend to support them.
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:04:00 - [17] What... the hell? No station walking without giving your computer over to Vista? CCP is the kind of company I'd expect to have an OpenGL base! What is going on? Does this mean the official Linux client will be the DirectX 9 version? I've heard DirectX 10 will be able to be emulated on Linux though? Another question: Is the only reason DirectX 10 is Vista only, because of Microsoft Monopoly? Or is there some technical reason that mean it is unable to run on XP/Linux? The main reaso I've stayed with Eve over the years has mostly to do with the attitude of CCP... they're not some faceless corporation out to milk users of moneys using the MMOG business formula. But if this Microsoft-only DirectX 10 non-openGL crap doesn't take a turn at some point, I'll be forced to hold CCP in a new light, and therefore look at other MMOG offerings as a more tangible alternative. -omg-
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Dark Shikari The really funny thing is that CCP is making a Linux and OS X client, which should help about 5% of their users, but noooo they can't make a Windows XP compatible client, locking out 80% of their users Thats just stupid. I'm sorry. It's not about supporting two version of the operating system its about supporting two version of the graphics API. And they are supporting both windows xp and windows vista but they will remove some features, which won't have a huge impact on game play, from one of the versions since the graphics api on the old version doesn't give them the same abilities as with the new version.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:06:00 - [19] I support the move to Windows Vista and DX10. Vista is by far and away the best OS in the world just now. It makes OS X and linux look like they belong in the last millenium. DX10 is awesome. I can't wait for real software to support it. Banana kisses her 8800s. The Green Banana Corporation is Recruiting
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Maraude Fury Edited by: Maraude Fury on 15/03/2007 12:54:30 I do find this kind of a funny topic overall. We all update our drivers when needed to get better performance, or better graphics. We upgrade our hardware to get better graphics or better performance, we up grade our software when a new version comes out to get better performance or access to new features.... Why is upgradeing your OS any different. Personally, I've found that it's better to get a copy of the newest windows OS asap. Why? Becuase then I'll have it for the longest period till the next one comes out. Yes it'll cost you money, yes it's money that could be spent on other items, but the simple fact is, it'll be worth it as most games made in 2007 and on will be designed for Vista as well as XP. Some of the new ones will be Vista only. The flip side is we complain about hundreds of bugs in this game, and we KNOW some of them are related to the ancient code in this game that is designed to support older OS's/Drivers/Hardware. So when they come along and write new code from the ground up, useing the newest OS and the newest DX, why do people complain? You don't want to buy Vista? Then don't. But this won't be the first time you find something that will be vista only. We'll start seeing that more and more over the comeing months. Because 'upgrading' to Vista, is actually a downgrade? It locks you out of your own system - in a way no other operating system has done before - so it's not a run-of-the-mill 'upgrade'. And FORCING you to upgrade because some games are Vista Only is not a reason to upgrade! It's a reason NOT to! How can you let microsoft take utter control like this? You lay down now, you think this will be the end?! They'll take more and more if you don't at some point take a bloomin stand!! -omg-

Trapted Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:10:00 - [21] Stop bashing vista for god sake, Whos actually used a retail copy? and not some RC? I personal use vista hp on my machine atm and I find it yes less reponsive in terms of performence but it doesn't take a brain surgion to work out whats going on if you look at memory usuage, turn the sidebar, desktop manager, antyhing else that you fancy if you want to retain the same performance as XP for the time being. While i wouldn't recommend anyone to upgrade to vista just for the sake of it, its not as bad as people are making it out to be. PS I run vista of a 8800 GTX and had 0 ZERO issue with driver support and haven't found any bugs yet that affect my computer habits.
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Banana Torres I support the move to Windows Vista and DX10. Vista is by far and away the best OS in the world just now. It makes OS X and linux look like they belong in the last millenium. DX10 is awesome. I can't wait for real software to support it. Banana kisses her 8800s. Some of us are technically minded enough to want to build and understand our own computers; that's why we bought a PC and not an Xcube Consolestation 4. We, the Builders of Computers, do not wish to be told what we can and can't do with the computer we bought unless Microsoft pay us for the privellege. -omg-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Trapted Stop bashing vista for god sake Vista is only a decent OS if you ignore the fact that installing it basically surrenders control of your computer to Microsoft. I prefer to own my own box, thank you. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:13:00 - [24] you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:14:00 - [25] Nothing to worry. CCP is about to release a Mac client. What makes you think CCP will force us to use Vista? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... Or linux :) -omg-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
4rc4ng3L Gallente Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. ok, i get that and i agree... but with time xp will become obsolete, microsoft will stop supporting it and releasing patches and fixes and such and at a point you will have no choice but to switch to vista...
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:19:00 - [30] Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:21:00 - [31] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. ok, i get that and i agree... but with time xp will become obsolete, microsoft will stop supporting it and releasing patches and fixes and such and at a point you will have no choice but to switch to vista... Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Dark Shikari Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products For someone that plays a game with market driven economy you sure do lack the basic understanding of market driven economy. PLEASE don't turn this into a anti-microsoft bla bla discussion. You DO have the choice to play the game like the DEVELOPERS see it fit to evolve. You DO have the choice not to use windows vista, heck windows at all if you dont see it fit. Use linux, unix, osx, beos, amiga os, bsd what ever you want. Oh and since you seem to want to run linux, the linux client should make you happy shouldn't it? Or have you read some sort of secret ccp memo where they said that the linux version WOULDNT get the station-walking-experience? Geezz..
4rc4ng3L Gallente Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products You can still play the EVE you have always played without having to touch another OS. Station interaction isnt necessary and it isnt an origional planned feature... therefore you wont be missing out on the game your currently playing, just the 'walkin and talkin' feature of the NEW eve. Still, it understandable.... but look on the bright side, if your inside a station you wont be able to fire off hundreds of rounds of antimatter... which is the main reason to play eve, isnt it!!!!!! Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:29:00 - [34] Edited by: Victor Valka on 15/03/2007 13:25:49 How about we stop giving CCP flak for their business decisions? It's their business after all, and if you don't like their product I suggest you take you money elsewhere. Plenty of MMOG out there. If you don't want to do that, I suggest you either: a) swallow it, b) be a good alternative OS activist and start blowing up Windows installations worldwide. Like it or not, Windows is the most popular desktop OS at this point in time and CCP is going where the money is. Can't say I blame them. Even if I don't agree with their decisions in which I have no part in. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Banana Torres I support the move to Windows Vista and DX10. Vista is by far and away the best OS in the world just now. It makes OS X and linux look like they belong in the last millenium. You really have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Try out the real OSs before jumping to a conclusion. OSX is at least 2 years ahead of Vista and Leopard OSX10.5 will ad 2 years on top of that (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/). I used windows 1.0 when it came out (how many here have done that?) so i used to be a long-term user of MS. I hoped Vista would solve the problems in XP regarding working with multiple documents and application that need to be open simultaneusly (we are not talking about few) but it didnt. Instead it raised the bar of hardware requirements which is just stubid. MacOSX can run on a six year old machine but Vista fully featured cannot run on my 9 month old IBM laptop!!! I was lended a Vista laptop in November when it came out and after having it for a 3 weeks I returned it. I was not happy. Looked at Mac book Pro and fell in love with the OSX system. I run the programes I need from Windows through parallels virtually (fortunatevly not many) and use Mac equvivalents softwares. And the OSX has a real sleep function which makes the computer go instantly in hypernation, even with all the programs open.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Victor Valka Like it or not, Windows the the most popular desktop OS at this point in time and CCP is going where the money is. Can't say I blame them. Even if I don't agree with their decisions in which I have no part in. Then why are CCP making clients for both Linux and OS X, but refuse to make one for Windows XP? Your argument makes no sense. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Jags Minmatar M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:30:00 - [37] There is no actual confirmation from CCP there , only hearsay from the writer of that article. Until CCP confirm or deny this I would hold fire I use Vista as I got a free copy of the Ultimate version. Does what it says on the tin tbh but it helps when you disable a lot of the user account nonsense so you cna have a good play about it
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Impericus You really have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Try out the real OSs before jumping to a conclusion. OSX is at least 2 years ahead of Vista and Leopard OSX10.5 will ad 2 years on top of that (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/). I used windows 1.0 when it came out (how many here have done that?) so i used to be a long-term user of MS. I hoped Vista would solve the problems in XP regarding working with multiple documents and application that need to be open simultaneusly (we are not talking about few) but it didnt. Instead it raised the bar of hardware requirements which is just stubid. MacOSX can run on a six year old machine but Vista fully featured cannot run on my 9 month old IBM laptop!!! I was lended a Vista laptop in November when it came out and after having it for a 3 weeks I returned it. I was not happy. Looked at Mac book Pro and fell in love with the OSX system. I run the programes I need from Windows through parallels virtually (fortunatevly not many) and use Mac equvivalents softwares. And the OSX has a real sleep function which makes the computer go instantly in hypernation, even with all the programs open. You have only Steve Jobs to blame for not promoting Macs as a gaming platform. I suggest you write him a letter. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products Damn Microsoft for not releasing Halo on Playsation! Damn Sony for not releasing tekken on wii! Damn Nintendo for not releasing their mario games on any other platform! Heck even damn them all for releasing new consoles with limited backwards compatability! Boo-hoo me. To play a game you will need to meet the specs (hardware and/or software) that the developers choose to target. You choose to play eve and you indireclty choose your platform for it. Stop whining and SWITCH operating system if you want. There's alot of "i could" and "i will" in your posts.. whats stopping you? The boogy man?
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Victor Valka Like it or not, Windows the the most popular desktop OS at this point in time and CCP is going where the money is. Can't say I blame them. Even if I don't agree with their decisions in which I have no part in. Then why are CCP making clients for both Linux and OS X, but refuse to make one for Windows XP? Your argument makes no sense. Both Linux and OS X clients are being made jointly with Transgaming. Well, mostly by Transgaming. The devil is in the details. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.

hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:36:00 - [41] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. ok, i get that and i agree... but with time xp will become obsolete, microsoft will stop supporting it and releasing patches and fixes and such and at a point you will have no choice but to switch to vista... Yeah. And that's an excellent marketing line to bring in the new customers, eh? BUY VISTA OR DIE. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. There's a reason why it's not the tagline of every company out there. Some people, I dunno, don't really like that sort of thing. It pushes them to alternatives. If it works on customers, that's a bad thing for many reasons. -omg-
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"?
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:41:00 - [43] Edited by: Fenlaw on 15/03/2007 13:37:27 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"? Oh noes! You had to ask... quick run! THE MEN IN BLACK SUITS WILL COME FOR YOU!! Run and spread the truth, we cannot be silenced!!! FREEDOM!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Fenlaw Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products Damn Microsoft for not releasing Halo on Playsation! Damn Sony for not releasing tekken on wii! Damn Nintendo for not releasing their mario games on any other platform! Heck even damn them all for releasing new consoles with limited backwards compatability! Boo-hoo me. To play a game you will need to meet the specs (hardware and/or software) that the developers choose to target. You choose to play eve and you indireclty choose your platform for it. Stop whining and SWITCH operating system if you want. There's alot of "i could" and "i will" in your posts.. whats stopping you? The boogy man? Imagine a new stadium was built in your home town. You really want to go see a game there, so you go to drive there. Once you get to the entrance, your car is stopped. You pull down your window, and the police tell you that you need a Tracking Device to enter. This Device sends to the police the location of your car at all times, and automatically shuts down the engine if you are doing anything suspicious. It costs you 2000 dollars. You can't go to the new stadium until you buy the Device. You complain, but everyone says "well you need to upgrade! Its not a big deal!" --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:43:00 - [45] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 13:40:14 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"? Read this. It will scare you. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:48:00 - [46] All you people spouting "It's the way it is, suck it down and get over it"; the only reason I have to suck it down and get over it is because of people like you. The people that sit at home and don't vote, then complain about the government. -omg-
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Fenlaw Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products Damn Microsoft for not releasing Halo on Playsation! Damn Sony for not releasing tekken on wii! Damn Nintendo for not releasing their mario games on any other platform! Heck even damn them all for releasing new consoles with limited backwards compatability! Boo-hoo me. To play a game you will need to meet the specs (hardware and/or software) that the developers choose to target. You choose to play eve and you indireclty choose your platform for it. Stop whining and SWITCH operating system if you want. There's alot of "i could" and "i will" in your posts.. whats stopping you? The boogy man? Imagine a new stadium was built in your home town. You really want to go see a game there, so you go to drive there. Once you get to the entrance, your car is stopped. You pull down your window, and the police tell you that you need a Tracking Device to enter. This Device sends to the police the location of your car at all times, and automatically shuts down the engine if you are doing anything suspicious. It costs you 2000 dollars. You can't go to the new stadium until you buy the Device. You complain, but everyone says "well you need to upgrade! Its not a big deal!" Again, for you to have any form of credability you need to state why you are running a windows machine when its obviously so bad, big-brother-is-watching-preventing-you-from-doing-what-you-want terrible. Again alot of "i could", "i will" but yet.. you use it. Flaming for the sake of flaming - getting so old, this discussion has been going on since the 80s
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:51:00 - [48] Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? I once loaded EVE onto a spare PC with an onboard video card. EVE didnt work, should CCP have made a version that supports outdated hardware? NO! I just went and bought a new video card and all was well. Technology moves forward, you dont have to change with it, but dont ***** if you cant access newer content. The same goes with HD-DVD and BLU-RAY stuff thats coming out, youll have to adapt or not access the new stuff. It goes with everything. Anyway, I'll leave you guys to get back to your typewriters, feel free to telegraph me any time, although my morse is a little rusty. o/
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:52:00 - [49] Originally by: hired goon All you people spouting "It's the way it is, suck it down and get over it"; the only reason I have to suck it down and get over it is because of people like you. The people that sit at home and don't vote, then complain about the government. we are talking about microsoft here... they have always done what they whant when they want. Having an amzing amount of money allows you that. good thing is there are alternatives especially with macs becoming very popular fast
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Fenlaw Again, for you to have any form of credability you need to state why you are running a windows machine when its obviously so bad, big-brother-is-watching-preventing-you-from-doing-what-you-want terrible. Again alot of "i could", "i will" but yet.. you use it. Flaming for the sake of flaming - getting so old, this discussion has been going on since the 80s I'm running XP, not Vista. The laptop I'm on now came with Vista. I wiped it upon delivery. Please click the link I posted above before posting. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard

hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Ionia Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? I once loaded EVE onto a spare PC with an onboard video card. EVE didnt work, should CCP have made a version that supports outdated hardware? NO! I just went and bought a new video card and all was well. Technology moves forward, you dont have to change with it, but dont ***** if you cant access newer content. The same goes with HD-DVD and BLU-RAY stuff thats coming out, youll have to adapt or not access the new stuff. It goes with everything. Anyway, I'll leave you guys to get back to your typewriters, feel free to telegraph me any time, although my morse is a little rusty. o/ These aren't normal upgrades. They don't simply make stuff better. Have you even been paying attention? Did you actually read the thread? -omg-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Ionia Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? BUT THEY ARE!!! CCP has said over and over there will be two new engines, one DX10 and one DX9. All they're doing here is locking out a new feature, on the request of Microsoft, to people who don't pay for the privilege of Microsoft owning their computer. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:58:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 13:40:14 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"? Read this. It will scare you. Only barely skimmed it, but this is about the content protection that Vista needs to implement in order to use HDCP, correct? I'm really beginning to hate DRM... On the plus side, maybe Linux OS's can take advantage of this, and advertise Linux as being able to use higher quality video and audio than Windows...
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ionia Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? BUT THEY ARE!!! CCP has said over and over there will be two new engines, one DX10 and one DX9. All they're doing here is locking out a new feature, on the request of Microsoft, to people who don't pay for the privilege of Microsoft owning their computer. You do know that the same discussion have literally been covered for every new release Microsoft had done right? Always amaze me how the "fanatics" always avoid answering direct questions and instead add more to their "propaganda".
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:59:00 - [55] if you wish to play on a old computer with out dated software there is great DOS games like Pong still out there oh yes DOS was made by microsoft well there are lots of games from 1979 that did not use microsoft try the IBM song game !
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:01:00 - [56] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 13:58:53 Originally by: Fenlaw Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ionia Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? BUT THEY ARE!!! CCP has said over and over there will be two new engines, one DX10 and one DX9. All they're doing here is locking out a new feature, on the request of Microsoft, to people who don't pay for the privilege of Microsoft owning their computer. You do know that the same discussion have literally been covered for every new release Microsoft had done right? Always amaze me how the "fanatics" always avoid answering direct questions and instead add more to their "propaganda". Can you please stop posting and read the link I posted? I don't like arguing with people who don't know any facts about the issue and base all their posts on predisposed assumptions. Oh, and no other Microsoft operating system has included DRM built into its kernel, so no, you are wrong. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 13:58:53 Originally by: Fenlaw Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ionia Ok, let me make it clear that every time i load this site up and I see a .asp page I die a little inside. However, their decision to make the in-station engine in DX10 isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make out. This isnt an upgrade to EVE's graphics engine, its a whole new engine and you cant seriously suggest they write 2 brand new engines from scratch? BUT THEY ARE!!! CCP has said over and over there will be two new engines, one DX10 and one DX9. All they're doing here is locking out a new feature, on the request of Microsoft, to people who don't pay for the privilege of Microsoft owning their computer. You do know that the same discussion have literally been covered for every new release Microsoft had done right? Always amaze me how the "fanatics" always avoid answering direct questions and instead add more to their "propaganda". Can you please stop posting and read the link I posted? I don't like arguing with people who don't know any facts about the issue and base all their posts on predisposed assumptions. Oh, and no other Microsoft operating system has included DRM built into its kernel, so no, you are wrong. I did skim it. Nothing new. Want me to cite a couple of sources saying the complete opposite? Do want to play "he said, she said" tag all day long? And when did this turn into a DRM discussion? What the heck does that have to do with your "wanting to watch fotball" analogy? Thanks for me, this will be my last post in this thread, you as skidding all over the road now with your discussion(s)
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:10:00 - [58] Originally by: hired goon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. ok, i get that and i agree... but with time xp will become obsolete, microsoft will stop supporting it and releasing patches and fixes and such and at a point you will have no choice but to switch to vista... Yeah. And that's an excellent marketing line to bring in the new customers, eh? BUY VISTA OR DIE. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. There's a reason why it's not the tagline of every company out there. Some people, I dunno, don't really like that sort of thing. It pushes them to alternatives. If it works on customers, that's a bad thing for many reasons. Please. Every major software comapany in the world will phase out old versions and present their customers with the choice (as you put it) "upgrade or die". Making things up to support your arguement is stupid.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:10:00 - [59] DS that is indeed a terrifying document, and what I understand of it (which is about 70% of the terminology and 90% of the implications) seems incredibly screwy. BUT. Allow me this hypothesis, lets assume that the ONLY thing I use my PC for is playing games, forum whoring and working and playing the odd mp3. And that I own a nice big telly and a DVD player for watching most of the described premium content. Is Vista going to be bad for me? Or is it going to make the games I want to play even prettier with DX10 etc. (This isn't actually a hypothesis, basically my PC is a console with a keyboard. Admittedly it's a console with a keyboard that i built myself, but I've never wanted to watch a movie on a 19" screen...) .... Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003.
Nivek Branta Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:11:00 - [60] Interesting thread... all sorts of reasons for not wanting Vista. I have a nice tangible one though: My bank (one of the largest in the world, 1st or 3rd depending on how you rank banks) does not allow Internet Banking through the Vista OS. As of three weeks ago they had no specific time-line implemented as to exactly when they were going to have it. I thought this was pretty stupid, but after reading this thread I'm starting to maybe understand their reasons. If Vista forces the user to surrender so much control of their computer, perhaps that's why. I dunno' how this all works... I just like my computers to WORK when I need them, hence why I'm not upgrading to Vista anytime soon.

Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:11:00 - [61] Quit your moaning. CCP is doing what most game developers are doing, using the new technology that is available to them and moving forward. By the time Ambulation even comes to frutition I dare a large percent of people will have moved over to Vista. It really doesnt matter what any of you do personnally, it only matters what the masses do, and they are going to move to Vista. Originally by: Empress Aphrodite ("don't flush it yet - let's freshen up the room a little")
Stogee Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:12:00 - [62] Originally by: hired goon What... the hell? The main reaso I've stayed with Eve over the years has mostly to do with the attitude of CCP... they're not some faceless corporation out to milk users of moneys using the MMOG business formula. Oh dear, I havent laughed so hard in ages
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:12:00 - [63] Quote: Then why are CCP making clients for both Linux and OS X, but refuse to make one for Windows XP? Seems like a solid business decision to me, actually. Why spend limited resources into building tools based on soon-to-be outdated technology? Let's face it, CCP isn't pulling in the kind of $$$ that WOW is....therefore, they simply HAVE to develop future versions for the largest possible user base. Is DX10 superior to OpenGL - I doubt it. Will it offer the greatest chance of MAXIMUM compatibility and support from ahrdware/software makers? Definitely. I also use OSX - and yes, I find it superior in almost every way to vista. But, until Steve Jobs wakes up and realizes he would make far more by releasing his OS as a stand-alone product that runs on any x86 compatible system then by tying it to his paltry 2-3% market share of overpriced hardware, then we're stuck with windows. Apple's OS will never penetrate the market sufficiently to compete with MS until they unbuckle it from their hardware. Further....the "average" computer user (i.e. the non-techie main stream) isn't interested in having to run "emulators" to get stuff to work. They could care less about the MS monopoly - they want to "point, click, & play". Having said that I think people tend to forget that this is, first and foremost, a business. While it's all well and good to spout high-minded ideals about "not supporting the MS monopoly", it wouldn't exactly make sound financial sense to spend valuable development funds on a operating system that IS going to be replaced by the vast majority of computer users over the next 2-3 years. How would you have liked to be the last company making buggy whips when cars began to dominate personal transportation?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:12:00 - [64] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 14:11:10 Originally by: Fi T'Zeh DS that is indeed a terrifying document, and what I understand of it (which is about 70% of the terminology and 90% of the implications) seems incredibly screwy. BUT. Allow me this hypothesis, lets assume that the ONLY thing I use my PC for is playing games, forum whoring and working and playing the odd mp3. And that I own a nice big telly and a DVD player for watching most of the described premium content. Is Vista going to be bad for me? Or is it going to make the games I want to play even prettier with DX10 etc. (This isn't actually a hypothesis, basically my PC is a console with a keyboard. Admittedly it's a console with a keyboard that i built myself, but I've never wanted to watch a movie on a 19" screen...) Read about Trusted Computing. Its the next step. Its purpose is so that you cannot run any program that Microsoft has not approved. But yes, you are correct; if you don't watch any protected videos (Note that Microsoft wants all videos to be protected in their format, not just HD-DVD), it won't affect you that much. At least until they patch all copies of Vista with Trusted Computing and you can no longer run Firefox because its not Microsoft-Approved. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Agent Lemming	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Victor Valka Like it or not, Windows the the most popular desktop OS at this point in time and CCP is going where the money is. Can't say I blame them. Even if I don't agree with their decisions in which I have no part in. Then why are CCP making clients for both Linux and OS X, but refuse to make one for Windows XP? Your argument makes no sense. Who's to say that the Linux & OS X clients will also contain the station walking gameplay. The article mentioned by the OP says that it is unknown if the stuff needing DX10 will get ported across too... It may well end up that the XP, Linux and OS X clients have the same gameplay, and that only the DX10 client will have the extra features. I guess it will depend partly on DX10 being emulated on Linux and OS X...
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:19:00 - [66] Originally by: Auman Please. Every major software comapany in the world will phase out old versions and present their customers with the choice (as you put it) "upgrade or die". Making things up to support your arguement is stupid. Right. Except in most cases, 'up'grading implies you're getting something better. -omg-
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:21:00 - [67] Originally by: Stogee Originally by: hired goon What... the hell? The main reaso I've stayed with Eve over the years has mostly to do with the attitude of CCP... they're not some faceless corporation out to milk users of moneys using the MMOG business formula. Oh dear, I havent laughed so hard in ages I don't understand. Are you implying that they are? Enjoy your Blizzard Software. -omg-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:21:00 - [68] Originally by: Agent Lemming Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Victor Valka Like it or not, Windows the the most popular desktop OS at this point in time and CCP is going where the money is. Can't say I blame them. Even if I don't agree with their decisions in which I have no part in. Then why are CCP making clients for both Linux and OS X, but refuse to make one for Windows XP? Your argument makes no sense. Who's to say that the Linux & OS X clients will also contain the station walking gameplay. The article mentioned by the OP says that it is unknown if the stuff needing DX10 will get ported across too... It may well end up that the XP, Linux and OS X clients have the same gameplay, and that only the DX10 client will have the extra features. I guess it will depend partly on DX10 being emulated on Linux and OS X... I heard that the WINE team said they should be able to get it working within 6 months. Which would mean we'd probably have it working flawlessly on Linux long before the station walking patch is finished... /makes a joke about CCP and glaciers --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:21:00 - [69] Thx for the honest reply. .... Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003.
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:22:00 - [70] Just one more thing I forgot. You do know that its the entertainment (music, video, games and so on) are the ones wanting DRM right? This isn't something Microsoft woke up one day and decided to work towards (yes thats right, towards. Vista is far from what the paladium vision is all about). And to implement DRM such at HDCP all the equipment, that is everything from the dvd in your computer to the monitor its being viewed on, has to be HDCP compliant? Wonder why the x-box isn't hdcp compliant.. it does have the optional hd-dvd player..... makes you wonder doesn't it

Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Dark Shikari I don't like arguing with people who don't know any facts about the issue and base all their posts on predisposed assumptions. Have you actually seen an official post from CCP yet stating 100% that they will NOT be making 'walking in stations' available too DX9 users? Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:24:00 - [72] Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. I'm going to be building two computers in the next few months, starting with one for my wife. Looks like I need to look into linux at least as a dual boot.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari I don't like arguing with people who don't know any facts about the issue and base all their posts on predisposed assumptions. Have you actually seen an official post from CCP yet stating 100% that they will NOT be making 'walking in stations' available too DX9 users? Nope. I trust the article originally posted, but its quite possible you're right, and CCP actually does plan to make it and that the article is just BSing. So honestly until we get a response from CCP we're probably working ourselves up a bit too much. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:29:00 - [74] Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 14:26:13 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari I don't like arguing with people who don't know any facts about the issue and base all their posts on predisposed assumptions. Have you actually seen an official post from CCP yet stating 100% that they will NOT be making 'walking in stations' available too DX9 users? Nope. I trust the article originally posted, but its quite possible you're right, and CCP actually does plan to make it and that the article is just BSing. So honestly until we get a response from CCP we're probably working ourselves up a bit too much. And that is the most sensible thing said in this thread! Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:33:00 - [75] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Allow me this hypothesis, lets assume that the ONLY thing I use my PC for is playing games, forum whoring and working and playing the odd mp3. And that I own a nice big telly and a DVD player for watching most of the described premium content. Is Vista going to be bad for me? Or is it going to make the games I want to play even prettier with DX10 etc. First of all, believe it or not, the big telly, and DVD player are part of the evil plan, but it's another story. Playing the occasional mp3 might be a problem eventually because the software, and the mp3 itself will be considered insecure data, and unauthorized programming code. This will either shut down a large portion of programs running on your computer automatically, or not run at all.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Dark Shikari CCP has said over and over there will be two new engines, one DX10 and one DX9. Two new engines? that would be silly since their current one is already DX9. They have said that they would have two versions, they are making a new DX10 engine. Check out the System Requirements Originally by: Dark Shikari All they're doing here is locking out a new feature, on the request of Microsoft Are you serious? really... that is just insulting to CCP, and absolutely unfounded.
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:39:00 - [77] Originally by: Dark Shikari So honestly until we get a response from CCP we're probably working ourselves up a bit too much.[/quote LOL thats what we've been saying from the start long before you decided to turn this into an anti-Microsoft crusade.
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 14:11:10 Originally by: Fi T'Zeh DS that is indeed a terrifying document, and what I understand of it (which is about 70% of the terminology and 90% of the implications) seems incredibly screwy. BUT. Allow me this hypothesis, lets assume that the ONLY thing I use my PC for is playing games, forum whoring and working and playing the odd mp3. And that I own a nice big telly and a DVD player for watching most of the described premium content. Is Vista going to be bad for me? Or is it going to make the games I want to play even prettier with DX10 etc. (This isn't actually a hypothesis, basically my PC is a console with a keyboard. Admittedly it's a console with a keyboard that i built myself, but I've never wanted to watch a movie on a 19" screen...) Read about Trusted Computing. Its the next step. Its purpose is so that you cannot run any program that Microsoft has not approved. But yes, you are correct; if you don't watch any protected videos (Note that Microsoft wants all videos to be protected in their format, not just HD-DVD), it won't affect you that much. At least until they patch all copies of Vista with Trusted Computing and you can no longer run Firefox because its not Microsoft-Approved. I suspect that last sentence is an exaggeration. For starters, the EU has been on MS's back constanty because of it's monopolising tactics. I don't doubt the Commission will be watching Vista over the months for more tactics like this. Secondly, companies like Google, Mozilla, etc, who make software for Windows would end up suing M$ if they pulled a stunt like disabling their software simply because M$ wanted peeps to use the M$ branded version. What M$ are aiming to do is to root out piracy. The Trusted Software ideology as discussed here is aimed at pirated software. M$ would NOT get away with killing off other software companies. The notion that M$ would go so far as to make other software companies obsolete is created by scaremongers and malcontents.
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Gariuys Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. As some wise man said before. Just bechause X was released after Y doesn't mean it's an uppgrade. Sure DX10 is probably better, but Vista? hopefully by then there will be some alternative to that abomination.
Mechanikus Gallente Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:48:00 - [80] Vista sucks hard, and Microsoft has been working hard to find every angle they can to force people to "upgrade" to their "better" new OS. There are other game titles that Microsoft has been working on that will be Vista only. Its complete and total BS. Regardless of that fact, I don't own any Direct X10 Vid cards, and I don't plan on buying any in the near future unless the price drops dramatically, and then again, I don't want Vista so prob. won't mess with it.

Rainhailer Gallente Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:50:00 - [81] Vista is great. I have seen no difference in running Eve.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:55:00 - [82] Man this thread is dull. It is like listening to a bunch of people from different religions arguing over whose God is "real".
4rc4ng3L Gallente Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:56:00 - [83] BOTTOM LINE!!!!! Vista and directX10 'WILL' provide a better gaming experience than ever before, better use of hardware/software and acrhitecture. Not to mention the graphical improvements than can be achieved. THEREFORE, regardless of whether you lie Vista or not it IS better for the furture of games becuse of what it introduces.... and when it f***g comes down to it, EVE IS A GAME!!!! CCP want to make a better GAME, if you absolute *tards want to moan over(boo hoo, me dont wana use crappy ol Vista...cry, cry, cry) then dont play the dam game. CCP DOESNT WANT TO PLEASE THE MICROSOFT HATERS/LOVERS. THEY WANT TO MAKE BETTER GAMES.....Vista and DX10 allow that. So grow up.... Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...**
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:57:00 - [84] Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Man this thread is dull. It is like listening to a bunch of people from different religions arguing over whose God is "real". Mines is the realist! Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:01:00 - [85] Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Man this thread is dull. It is like listening to a bunch of people from different religions arguing over whose God is "real". Mines is the realist! Ah. Glory to those touched by the noodley apendage!
Laura Baretta Minmatar Caelestis Caedes	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:02:00 - [86] I remember the outrage when Game developers announced they would in the future only program for Windows 95 platform and not for DOS anymore. And look where we are now Nothing new here hehe
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:02:00 - [87] The only reason MS is not supporting DX10 on xp is to force ppl to change to Vista. And they will manage since they are holding all the big hardware vendors HP, Dell and Lenovo by the ballls. Some of the younger generation here forget actually how MS got to become the biggest software OS on the market. It was not through fair market play if people think so. One good example is the BeOS system that was completely killed by MS (its a good story to read). The essence of it was that MS threatened every hardware vendor that planed to bundle the BeOS on their computers.
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:02:00 - [88] The only reason MS is not supporting DX10 on xp is to force ppl to change to Vista. And they will manage since they are holding all the big hardware vendors HP, Dell and Lenovo by the ballls. Some of the younger generation here forget actually how MS got to become the biggest software OS on the market. It was not through fair market play if people think so. One good example is the BeOS system that was completely killed by MS (its a good story to read). The essence of it was that MS threatened every hardware vendor that planed to bundle the BeOS on their computers.
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:03:00 - [89] Let me put it in terms you can understand for sure. Some of you will obviously disagree with this because, well, I'm talking about you. Microsoft/Intel/all the media companies and the Trusted Computing Group can be compared to BoB. They want to control all access to data, like BoB wants 0.0 space. You can lie down and pay their exorbitant tax, or forever be on their hit list. You can be one of the people who say,"Oh well, so what, I can afford the cost of liberty to be comfortable, so I will pay the tax." First they took out your neighbors, and rarely came knocking at your door. You said, this is fine, I can still mine veld over here without really having to fight them. Now they are your neighbors, and next is your space. Your music, your text documents, your internet connection are all being spied on by Windows Media Player, WGA, the indexing service, and Windows itself, kind of like how BoB has spies in every major 0.0 alliance. They kill your titans while you're asleep. It catalogs your files while you're not looking and tracks your internet usage, even when you set it to delete your tracks, the data is still there. They lie about their product, and spread FUD(fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about other Corporations, and they even cheat to win. :P Is this what you want me to upgrade to? "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:05:00 - [90] Originally by: Miss Anthropy What M$ are aiming to do is to root out piracy. The Trusted Software ideology as discussed here is aimed at pirated software. M$ would NOT get away with killing off other software companies. The notion that M$ would go so far as to make other software companies obsolete is created by scaremongers and malcontents. Exactly, microsoft would not kill the software of other CORPORATIONS. However, every piece of software that doesnt implement extremely restrictive Controlls leaves the door wide open for piracy. Open source -> piracy, because people who know how to code and are not chained in corporate structure can write evil code Firefox -> Piracy / terrorism, because browsers that dont support censorship can be used to download pirate software / manuals how to code it etc Sounds "tin foil"? Well, in the last decade, things i never thought possible happened to the defenders of freedom. Noone here cares what the big $$$ can and cannot do in the future, everyone is worried about our rights. Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Man this thread is dull. It is like listening to a bunch of people from different religions arguing over whose God is "real". Some religious people love their believe and want to convince other people by word and deed. Some hate those who dont share their believes, and want to convert them with torture and terror. And there are those who dont care, and just want to be left alone. Those usually shout "hail leader" the loudest when the zealots rise to power, and outdo them in cleansing their neighbours for having the wrong hair color marking them as "lesser humans".

Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"? Read this. It will scare you. Hehe I've had (an illegal) vista disk sitting on my desk for a while now as i was waiting for better driver support. After that reading that im gonna say ** that ** though, ill stick to XP. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Alexander Siege Minmatar Empyreum	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:13:00 - [92] You know Im noticing some very strange parallels from something a few years ago. 5 years ago this new O/S came out. I was a resource hog. It was buggy as hell. I wanted to have MS certified drivers. Most people would of had to upgrade their machines to get the best use out of it. Some people hated the fact it try and stop you tinkering with it, as well as the fact you had to activate it within 30 days. So those people said they would stay with a previous O/S because they didn't like the new O/S. Anything sound familiar?
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:16:00 - [93] Very funny how half the posters in this thread don't have a clue what the OP is talking about. Yea, I read this and of course my reaction was hostile. It's no secret CCP are in bed with microsoft(or they try very hard to be at least) as I've seen people point out MS's direct-x page and right there on it is a picture of eve. This has become a good thing gone bad I guess. A move like this, even if there is absolutely no technical reason for NOT releasing 'ambulation' on WinXP, wouldn't surprise me at all given Eve's latest trends. I'd like to hear the reason this is going to be Vista only though since pretty much everyone says there is nothing really new in Dx10 or Vista. I'm no programmer I'll admit, but the ones I have seen say these things, well....I'll be taking their word before giving "CCP" the benefit of the doubt, that is unless they care to defend their position.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:18:00 - [94] When XP support runs out, I am going to change to linux/unix rather than Vista. Are there any plans of developing a linux client? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Stogee Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:21:00 - [95] Originally by: hired goon Originally by: Stogee Originally by: hired goon What... the hell? The main reaso I've stayed with Eve over the years has mostly to do with the attitude of CCP... they're not some faceless corporation out to milk users of moneys using the MMOG business formula. Oh dear, I havent laughed so hard in ages I don't understand. Are you implying that they are? Enjoy your Blizzard Software. Yes, thats exactly what I am implying. Firstly, I dont play WoW neither do I intend to. I only play Eve and enjoy it a lot, but as a game designer by trade I am under no illusions to the purpose behind the design of Eve. All gamers love to believe that the game studios they like are about passion and games and not 'corporate' or making money. It may be the Game Industry, but it's still industry. The fundamental design of Eve makes it painfully obvious. If you dont understand that, I'm not sure you'd understand even if I sat here and explained it to you.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:22:00 - [96] Personally im happy that one company has a monopoly on the OS front. It makes development for games and software a much easier task that it would be in a world were 20 different OS's shared an equal portion of the market place. It would and will always be the case that one OS will be dominant over others. I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind. ummm no thanks. As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them' Also you should be under no illusions that if another company rises to power and overthrows MS, they will be just as calleous and power hungry as Microsoft. This is the world we live in, no amount of chest beating will change that. It would be nice but not bloody likely. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dmian Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:30:00 - [97] Well, I'm a graphic designer and a former Mac user. I bought a Compaq which came with XP OEM. It's a decent OS, but not the best. I need it to run Adobe apps. I made my PC a dual-boot with Ubuntu. I'm not upgrading to Vista. I hate all DRM related stuff. If I feel like paying again for an OS it'll probably be MacOS, not Windows. But I don't feel like paying for something with DRM, really... I'm a slave to Adobe apps right now, not Windows or MacOS. If a Linux version of Adobe apps were available (or a free professional suite for design is released), I'll be using Linux, not Windows nor MacOS. I'll use XP until it becomes useless. I'll play Eve until I get bored. I don't care why CCP choose DirectX. It's a pitty they didn't choose OpenGL. But they must know what they're doing, I suppose. I only hope I don't have to face a situation where I have to choose between a game and a OS: the game will probably loose. Regards
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:50:00 - [98] Originally by: Qolde Let me put it in terms you can understand for sure. Some of you will obviously disagree with this because, well, I'm talking about you. Microsoft/Intel/all the media companies and the Trusted Computing Group can be compared to BoB. They want to control all access to data, like BoB wants 0.0 space. You can lie down and pay their exorbitant tax, or forever be on their hit list. You can be one of the people who say,"Oh well, so what, I can afford the cost of liberty to be comfortable*, so I will pay the tax." First they took out your neighbors, and rarely came knocking at your door. You said, this is fine, I can still mine veld over here without really having to fight them. Now they are your neighbors, and next is your space. Your music, your text documents, your internet connection are all being spied on by Windows Media Player, WGA, the indexing service, and Windows itself, kind of like how BoB has spies in every major 0.0 alliance. They kill your titans while you're asleep. It catalogs your files while you're not looking and tracks your internet usage, even when you set it to delete your tracks, the data is still there. They lie about their product, and spread FUD(fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about other Corporations, and they even cheat to win. :P Is this what you want me to upgrade to? Nicely put !!
Gigi Barbagrigia Latent Appliance Fetishists	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:53:00 - [99] Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Actually it entertained me quite a bit. This means that even with nothing else happening in the system, a mass of assorted drivers has to wake up thirty times a second just to ensure thatà nothing continues to happen. So D.A.-ish There will always be alternatives and stiffer mainstream means geekier sideways. Which is good.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 - [100] Originally by: Ealiom I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind. If your game is dependent upon OS specific calls instead of API specific calls you shouldn't be writing games. If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Scilent Enigma Minmatar SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 - [101] Originally by: Dmian I only hope I don't have to face a situation where I have to choose between a game and a OS: the game will probably loose. QFT I'll be going over to Linux when XP is no longer supported. Have been looking for a reason and this seems to be the best one yet.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:56:00 - [102] Originally by: Gigi Barbagrigia Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Actually it entertained me quite a bit. This means that even with nothing else happening in the system, a mass of assorted drivers has to wake up thirty times a second just to ensure thatà nothing continues to happen. So D.A.-ish There will always be alternatives and stiffer mainstream means geekier sideways. Which is good. Yeah I thought that was a great line too, giggled a bit at it --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:56:00 - [103] Originally by: Impericus This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. You mean the game isn't fun now? Because DX9 people will have everything they have now plus fancy new graphics... So, how about you STFU, k? - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:00:00 - [104] Originally by: Ealiom As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them' Well here is the difference. I am one of those who has given more to MS than received. I paid for my licences but got countless hours of chrashes and reinstalls needs, on my working computer (not gaming).
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:02:00 - [105] Originally by: Ealiom Personally im happy that one company has a monopoly on the OS front. It makes development for games and software a much easier task that it would be in a world were 20 different OS's shared an equal portion of the market place. It would and will always be the case that one OS will be dominant over others. I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind. ummm no thanks. As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them' Also you should be under no illusions that if another company rises to power and overthrows MS, they will be just as calleous and power hungry as Microsoft. This is the world we live in, no amount of chest beating will change that. It would be nice but not bloody likely. Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them. The OS is just an interface between the hardware and software. Microsoft attempts to implement its own "closed standards" that only work on windows, yet still allow open standards that can work on any computer. So, you can use openGL in windows, easily, because every single graphics card out there that you can buy today supports it. OpenGL works in MacOS, Linux, and windows. Examples of games that use OpenGL are the Quake and Doom, which are considered masterpieces of 3d gaming. There's OpenAL for sound, and wxWidgets for a crossplatform windowing API. This means you can use the same code to program entire games that work on all 3 major OSes. DirectX only works on Windows and XboX. DirectX is NOT better than openGL for the simple fact that it is not portable, and it is proprietary. What company in their right mind would do this to themselves? Shortsighted ones that don't believe that even the greatest empires are doomed to fall. Maybe it's easier to use Microsoft's buggy code. Is that an excuse for paying their exorbitant prices? It's lower quality, more expensive. Read that Benjamin Franklin quote again dudes.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:04:00 - [106] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Ealiom I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind. If your game is dependent upon OS specific calls instead of API specific calls you shouldn't be writing games. If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx. Its not trivial though. All those OS's all requiring extensive testing, for hardware as well as software. I could imagine the hail of patching that would dwarf that of today. I like the fact i can take information from any machine and drop it into another and know it will work. Likewise when i buy a game i know it will work, with the exception of BF games and a few others. Drivers would be a nightmare as well. All in all it would be a much worse situation than we have at present. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:04:00 - [107] Originally by: Hllaxiu If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx. This is exactly the issue. It wouldnt surprise if we learned that Directx was chosen because MS made it part of the requirement in supporting their windows servers architecture.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:06:00 - [108] Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming? Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here... - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:08:00 - [109] Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 15/03/2007 16:05:01 Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming? Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here... IIRC part of the EULA, they can remove any software they see as unwanted without (<--sp, edit) your authorization.. wonder if they could remove an OS when your dual boosting and currently active on your vista (they probably cant, but i like to make theories) -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:11:00 - [110] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Impericus This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. You mean the game isn't fun now? Because DX9 people will have everything they have now plus fancy new graphics... So, how about you STFU, k? Yeah.. tell it to my face and see how well that goes...

Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:13:00 - [111] Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming? Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here... I really don't like black box interfaces. And the fact that you can't buy Vista, you can only lease a limited use right for one computer... And the fact that they have used more effort into limiting what you can do with it than to opening possibilities for use. "Windows. Closing doors for you." ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:13:00 - [112] Originally by: Qolde Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them. I think thats the problem i envisage. In a sea of OS's there will be direct attempts at singling themselves out in order to become market leaders. There will always be a push to dominate the competitor. The fact that they can impliment them doesnt mean they will. Its been like this every time MS release a new OS is released. DOS - Win95 - Win98 - WinXP - Vista I will be installing Vista if it proves to be utter rubbish. Devastatingly so competitors will sieze the opportunity and i may see myself going for an alternative, but at present the support is not there and is not as readily accessabile as Windows. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:14:00 - [113] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 15/03/2007 16:05:01 Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming? Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here... IIRC part of the EULA, they can remove any software they see as unwanted without (<--sp, edit) your authorization.. wonder if they could remove an OS when your dual boosting and currently active on your vista (they probably cant, but i like to make theories) I don't know would even windows go as far as wiping out another OS, especially if that OS is one of its predecessors own... as long as you don't try to run the XP executables in Vista, it shouldn't even notice. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Ealiom Its not trivial though. All those OS's all requiring extensive testing, for hardware as well as software. I could imagine the hail of patching that would dwarf that of today. I like the fact i can take information from any machine and drop it into another and know it will work. Likewise when i buy a game i know it will work, with the exception of BF games and a few others. Drivers would be a nightmare as well. All in all it would be a much worse situation than we have at present. Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:20:00 - [115] Originally by: Hllaxiu Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers? You just named some of the biggest players with the funds and resources to make it possible While remaining profitable. Don't know what you mean about CCP having to care about drivers? I was refering to the hardware side. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:26:00 - [116] Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Hllaxiu Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers? You just named some of the biggest players with the funds and resources to make it possible While remaining profitable. Don't know what you mean about CCP having to care about drivers? I was refering to the hardware side. I really don't understand what you mean about drivers - I use Ubuntu for the most part and my graphics card is fully supported and gets performance similar to that under windows (for OpenGL stuff anyways). Same goes for my sound card and everything else. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:33:00 - [117] Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Qolde Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them. I think thats the problem i envisage. In a sea of OS's there will be direct attempts at singling themselves out in order to become market leaders. There will always be a push to dominate the competitor. The fact that they can impliment them doesnt mean they will. Its been like this every time MS release a new OS is released. DOS - Win95 - Win98 - WinXP - Vista I will be installing Vista if it proves to be utter rubbish. Devastatingly so competitors will sieze the opportunity and i may see myself going for an alternative, but at present the support is not there and is not as readily accessabile as Windows. The thing is, it's not really up to the OS creator on whether or not to support OpenGL. It's up to your graphics card manufacturer to be compliant, and they ALL are. Someone just writes the implementation library for a specific OS, and you can just bring some old code from any other openGL game or whatever and compile it on the new OS without writing anything new. So, what we have here is Crowd Control Productions mysteriously deciding to ignore part of the crowd that they wish to control, by using inferior software that doesn't run on more than one kind of machine. Weird if you ask me. I think TomB is Bill Gates alt.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:43:00 - [118] Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 16:46:29 Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 16:44:08 Originally by: prsr I really don't think there's any platform with more driver issues then ms windows. Projecting their issues by default on competitors really doesn't make any sense. Well of course its all hypothetical. So is assuming that any and all competitors would get it 100% right. Reading the posts its as if you believe that another OS will have a perfect system where we will all live in a grand digital utopia. Its a pipe dream. Like most things ill wait till a few years down the line. After i have extensively used the software. If its utter garbage i will likely jump to a new OS that would have undoubtedly become more popular if Vista is an utter failure. Until then im not going to be so short sighted as to abandon something i havent even broken in. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:50:00 - [119] Well upgrading to vista isn't an option for me, because it looks and smells so awful, but neither is Linux. Having used it exclusively for a few months, I went back to XP. Can't stand linux. It's not a viable alternative and don't tell me to get a mac... So it comes down to if eve caters to microsoft to the point that I can't see some content without getting vista, it'll probably be goodbye eve. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:53:00 - [120] Methinks if there were multiple OSes, half of them would be just another flavor of nix. Hell macOS is based on the nix system. WinXP stole some ideas from nix, and I wouldn't doubt Vista has even more nix type features, than XP. And if you only knew what the nix dudes have to go through to get a driver written for nix(such as write it from scratch with 0 documentation), you'd see that it's possible. If you understood how Linux works, you'd understand that they can't be like Microsuck. If you knew that nix has had a windowing system since the 80's and 64-bit computing since the early 90's, then you wouldn't think that Windows was ever* "better" than nix. The thing nix lacks is summed up in a few words. Support from game developers. If a few good people would step in and get the ball rolling, it would easily dominate. I did this experiment after my 100% legal copy of Xp said that I couldn't install it anymore, where I simply switched to Linux. It worked better to my surprise, but I couldn't play with my favorite Digital Audio Workstation in Linux. That's the only reason I even keep Windows around since Eve plays fine in Linux for now. *nix = Unix, Linux, BSD, and stuff like it.

Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:53:00 - [121] Originally by: Frug Well upgrading to vista isn't an option for me, because it looks and smells so awful, but neither is Linux. Having used it exclusively for a few months, I went back to XP. Can't stand linux. It's not a viable alternative and don't tell me to get a mac... So it comes down to if eve caters to microsoft to the point that I can't see some content without getting vista, it'll probably be goodbye eve. I understand and respect that stance but the thing is. Ultimately you will be saying goodbye to every other new game too. Okay not straight away hell no, but a few years down the line, you wont have your new games. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:54:00 - [122] Originally by: Ealiom Go download a driver and you have to specify which OS you are using. Actually I just type "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:57:00 - [123] I'm gettin a playstation 3. It uses a processor that pwns all processors, and it runs Linux to boot. Even though Sony is one of the worst companies ever and panders to the media companies almost as bad as MS does, how could you say no to that beautiful Cell Processor?
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:59:00 - [124] Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 16:57:17 Originally by: Qolde Methinks if there were multiple OSes, half of them would be just another flavor of nix. Hell macOS is based on the nix system. WinXP stole some ideas from nix, and I wouldn't doubt Vista has even more nix type features, than XP. And if you only knew what the nix dudes have to go through to get a driver written for nix(such as write it from scratch with 0 documentation), you'd see that it's possible. If you understood how Linux works, you'd understand that they can't be like Microsuck. If you knew that nix has had a windowing system since the 80's and 64-bit computing since the early 90's, then you wouldn't think that Windows was ever* "better" than nix. The thing nix lacks is summed up in a few words. Support from game developers. If a few good people would step in and get the ball rolling, it would easily dominate. I did this experiment after my 100% legal copy of Xp said that I couldn't install it anymore, where I simply switched to Linux. It worked better to my surprise, but I couldn't play with my favorite Digital Audio Workstation in Linux. That's the only reason I even keep Windows around since Eve plays fine in Linux for now. nix = Unix, Linux, BSD, and stuff like it. So why arent they fully supported by game developers? Originally by:* Qolde I'm gettin a playstation 3. It uses a processor that pwns all processors, and it runs Linux to boot. Even though Sony is one of the worst companies ever and panders to the media companies almost as bad as MS does, how could you say no to that beautiful Cell Processor? I wont be PS3 and Linux for me. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:01:00 - [125] Originally by: Ealiom Go download a driver and you have to specify which OS you are using. Thats fine at present because there are a limited amount as Windows dominates the market, but in a world were umpteen OS's all fight for market dominance and no one OS has a monopoly. You would find Hardware provider hard pressed to support them all. It's up to the OS developers to support hardware. Works great as long as the hardware companies provides the developers with the information they need. Originally by: Ealiom In a market like that OS's would appear and disappear very quickly. Can you imagine a new OS's supplier approachin Nvidia about driver support for there new OS's 'Who are you guys' 'Were looking for driver compatibility for our new OS Doors PX' 'Never heard of you [slam]' You are assuming that the relationship MS has with hardware vendors is some kind of normal standard. It's not. Nobody demands NVidia to write drivers for their OS. It's usually developers begging hardware vendors to release specs (under NDA if needed) so they can write the drivers. Originally by: Ealiom The main point im trying to get across is that at present we all use windows, everyone how uses a PC knows how to use it. It is readily supported and its interface is well known. You fire in a ton of different OS's to fill the vaccuum left by MS and it would horrible. "We" don't all use windows, not everyone with a PC knows how to use windows, it is only supported at the rate of 99,- euros for an e-mail question and 250,- euros for a phonecall and that support is only available at one place: MS. Originally by: Ealiom I dont actually believe that would happen, i believe there would always be an OS with a massive share of the market. I also dont believe they would be any better than MS. I don't think that will happen either. Windows marketshare won't drop substantially until MS stops allowing people to pirate their software through simple loopholes that are ment to at least keep the installed base at a maximum even if they don't get every sale. Of course, there is quite a bit of competition coming from various linux distros that are trying to get through MS vendor lock-in strategies. Ubuntu is excellent to replace windows with on the avarage desktop and on the serverside the match was over before it even really began (talking about ISP's here mostly). MS might try for a comeback but for now it doesn't seem like anyone is buying into their ridicoulus TCO estimates for rival systems. -- .sig apathy ftw
katz3 Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:05:00 - [126] Vista sucks. EveN more than XP. ___________________
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:08:00 - [127] Quote: So, what we have here is Crowd Control Productions mysteriously deciding to ignore part of the crowd that they wish to control, by using inferior software that doesn't run on more than one kind of machine. Or....perhaps through their client they can monitor what OS users are using...and their stats indicated the vast (i.e. profitable) majority are on XP currently, and will certainly be moving up to Vista in the next few years (if you're a serious PC gamer, there's really little choice. Let's face it....until someone with a superior OS comes up with the marketing muscle to beat MS at their own game, then Vista will eb where it's at in a couple of years as far as PC gaming goes. If another OS producer (i.e. Apple) would throw some money at some great game developers to produce some "OSX Only" games that were of the caliber currently being produced for Vista, then maybe the world would stand up and take notice. The problem with alternative OS's is that there are really no "killer apps" that would grow their user bases beyond the geeks evangelizing their many advantages. How many xbox 360's do you think were sold on the strength of Gears of War? how many more people will rush to upgrade to Vista (not to mention their systems) once Alan Wake/Crysis/Quake Wars and other Vista-Only games come out?
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:14:00 - [128] Originally by: prsr Originally by: Ealiom Go download a driver and you have to specify which OS you are using. Thats fine at present because there are a limited amount as Windows dominates the market, but in a world were umpteen OS's all fight for market dominance and no one OS has a monopoly. You would find Hardware provider hard pressed to support them all. It's up to the OS developers to support hardware. Works great as long as the hardware companies provides the developers with the information they need. Originally by: Ealiom In a market like that OS's would appear and disappear very quickly. Can you imagine a new OS's supplier approachin Nvidia about driver support for there new OS's 'Who are you guys' 'Were looking for driver compatibility for our new OS Doors PX' 'Never heard of you [slam]' You are assuming that the relationship MS has with hardware vendors is some kind of normal standard. It's not. Nobody demands NVidia to write drivers for their OS. It's usually developers begging hardware vendors to release specs (under NDA if needed) so they can write the drivers. You just rubbished my point then backed it up? What you say about most computer susers and windows is rubbish though. You stick windows in front of joe average and he will easily use the software. Put linux or anything else in front of him and hell be stumped. This isnt an attack on any OS its just a fact that more people are familar with windows. Hence if windows wasnt here and werent dominant wed be in a worse situation were people would have to learn multiple OS's. Again my main point is that having a market leader like this stabalizes everything. There are standards and procedures which people are used to and are quickly and easily used every day. Other systems may be better, but that isnt my arguement! In a perfect world we would have one OS from one company. This software would be perfect, the company itself a benevolent source of information and powerful updates to its OS. That will never happen. MS may suck but i would rather have them here than a ton of tiny corporations likewise any other large company would just as easily fall into the same pitfalls as MS - were large amounts of money and power are at stake. I think im done here - heading home now. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:14:00 - [129] Originally by: Ealiom So why arent they fully supported by game developers? A little chicken and egg problem. Supporting for nix would mean learning nix for people who are growing up when computer classes teach you all this MS stuff because MS pays the schools to teach this stuff. If nobody programs for nix, then who will use nix? If nobody uses nix, then who will demand programs for nix? The problem is that companies don't see Mac and Linux as significant markets, because of their market share. What they don't remember is that Windows was the same way at one time, but look at where it is now. Same place apple was. Same place IBM was. I guess it's easier to just drink the kool-aid.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Qolde Originally by: Ealiom So why arent they fully supported by game developers? A little chicken and egg problem. Supporting for nix would mean learning nix for people who are growing up when computer classes teach you all this MS stuff because MS pays the schools to teach this stuff. If nobody programs for nix, then who will use nix? If nobody uses nix, then who will demand programs for nix? The problem is that companies don't see Mac and Linux as significant markets, because of their market share. What they don't remember is that Windows was the same way at one time, but look at where it is now. Same place apple was. Same place IBM was. I guess it's easier to just drink the kool-aid. So imagine instead of one to teach you have umpteen others. Would it not make the situation even worse? This is why one will always rise to the top, more exposure, more users and more support. So again if not MS another big greedy company. Executioner Model Blackbird Model

Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:22:00 - [131] Originally by: Ealiom What you say about most computer susers and windows is rubbish though. You stick windows in front of joe average and he will easily use the software. Put linux or anything else in front of him and hell be stumped. This isnt an attack on any OS its just a fact that more people are familar with windows. Hence if windows wasnt here and werent dominant wed be in a worse situation were people would have to learn multiple OS's. Nope. People have tested it out. You throw Kubuntu or Mandriva Linux at the average joe, and he can burn CD's, send email, play solitaire, chat, and look at internet **** exactly as easily as he could do it in Windows. Linux isn't some foreign language. You turn it on, and use it just the same as Windows for the most part, even without all that strong multibillion dollar(almost typed isk) company backing it up. I'll look for the source right now.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:26:00 - [132] Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 17:24:29 Originally by: Qolde Originally by: Ealiom What you say about most computer susers and windows is rubbish though. You stick windows in front of joe average and he will easily use the software. Put linux or anything else in front of him and hell be stumped. This isnt an attack on any OS its just a fact that more people are familar with windows. Hence if windows wasnt here and werent dominant wed be in a worse situation were people would have to learn multiple OS's. Nope. People have tested it out. You throw Kubuntu or Mandriva Linux at the average joe, and he can burn CD's, send email, play solitaire, chat, and look at internet **** exactly as easily as he could do it in Windows. Linux isn't some foreign language. You turn it on, and use it just the same as Windows for the most part, even without all that strong multibillion dollar(almost typed isk) company backing it up. I'll look for the source right now. Yes but thats a specific test. Ask Joe average which one he wants to use, it will be windows he has used that forever is comfortable with it. Other OS's are foriegn to him. I remember loading up Mac OS once to do some editing at work. I almost through the dam thing across the room in frustration. If you asked me (and since im not a special flower) millions of others they will say windows. Id be interested to seeing it though if you wouldnt mind, thanks Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:32:00 - [133] Originally by: Ealiom Yes but thats a specific test. Ask Joe average which one he wants to use, it will be windows he has used that forever is comfortable with it. Other OS's are foriegn to him. I remember loading up Mac OS once to do some editing at work. I almost through the dam thing across the room in frustration. If you asked me (and since im not a special flower) millions of others they will say windows. Id be interested to seeing it though if you wouldnt mind, thanks Thats because you thought it would be just like windows, and was frustrated whent it wasn't exactly like windows. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Dmian Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:33:00 - [134] Originally by: Ealiom So imagine instead of one to teach you have umpteen others. Would it not make the situation even worse? This is why one will always rise to the top, more exposure, more users and more support. So again if not MS another big greedy company. You're a funny guy. Not everything in the computing world is so corporation oriented, you know? Maybe you'd like to read this. Anyway, Windows is the last OS not based on *nix. That makes me think, really. I don't want to judge CCP for their decisions, since I don't have all the information. All I say is that I use my computer to work. Gaming is secondary. And if I find too much trouble making Eve (or any other game) run on my computer, independently from the OS I'm running, it'll be bye bye game.
Umit Davala Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:33:00 - [135] Wow, this is like the geekiest thread ever. I use Vista. It works. Thats what 98% of people care about. Also, I shall revel in my DX10-ness by not walking in stations, cos its a meh idea
Dmian Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Ealiom Yes but thats a specific test. Ask Joe average which one he wants to use, it will be windows he has used that forever is comfortable with it. Other OS's are foriegn to him. I remember loading up Mac OS once to do some editing at work. I almost through the dam thing across the room in frustration. If you asked me (and since im not a special flower) millions of others they will say windows. Well, I put my father (68 years old, novice Windows user) in front of Ubuntu and he found it pretty easy to used. He quite liked it. And I gave him a LiveCD to try. I think I've liberated one more user
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:00:00 - [137] I am completely outraged that I must use a computer in order to play Eve! C'mon, CCP what about those of us who don't want to use computers? And don't throw that CCG at me...you have a monopoly on those playing cards and that's simply not fair!
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:25:00 - [138] OK, you Vista and MS haters! Hands up, how many of you have at least some experience with retail version of Vista? Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:37:00 - [139] I can't find the page I was looking for, but I found some other ones that'll have to do. Comparison (medium techie) Comparison (human) Comparison(humor) Another decent one Anyway, Victor, you mean the one that simply limits your usage, hogs all your ram for no reason, and adds only a glass effect when you're using the explorer? Pfft. Proud to say I haven't. It's no secret that newer OSes need more processing power in general than their predecessors. The problem comes when the newest version of Linux can run on a Pentium 1 133 with 16 MB of RAM, and can do everything that Vista can do, just (a lot) slower. But Vista, doesn't even install. Put Linux on the same system that Vista requires, you have a system that will run faster when doing the same thing, and doesn't crash. Even if it crashes, you don't have to reboot. It's called a cartel. MS needs Intel to sell software, Intel needs MS to sell hardware. MS needs CCP to sell Windows, CCP needs MS, by choice sadly.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:43:00 - [140] Originally by: Victor Valka OK, you Vista and MS haters! Hands up, how many of you have at least some experience with retail version of Vista? I did. It felt just like XP, except it seemed a lot less snappy. I turned off all the effects after just a few minutes of using it And Ubuntu? Definitely easier to use than Windows... I've installed it on computers used by basically computer-illiterate people and they do much better with it than Windows, because with Windows they end up covered with malware. Ubuntu stays clean --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard

CaperPuts Minmatar Life. Universe. Everything. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:43:00 - [141] Running Vista Home Premium, and it works great. I have two gigs of RAM, I took one out, and some games ran a bit crappier than when I had 1 gig with XP, but hey... 2 gigs is recommended for most newer things anyways. Basically, my only complaint it that it uses a bit more resources. All my XP drivers worked with Vista, installing it was way faster than XP, and easier... and XP was easy to begin with. Vista looks much nicer. Is Doom 3 or Quake 4 OpenGL? I ran both on Vista, neither seemed to perform worse on my PC compared to XP. lolz
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:44:00 - [142] I used to think that the only good piece of MS software that is virtually bug free was notepad, but even notepad has bugs.
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:47:00 - [143] Edited by: Victor Valka on 15/03/2007 18:46:07 Qolde, My main machine is running WinXP, dual booting into Mandriva when I feel the need to geek around; my laptop it a MacBook, running MacOS X. They are all exceptional OSes. I fully intend to give Vista a 2 month trial run when I have an DX10 video card. You really don't need to tell me about available alternatives. EDIT: What I'm trying to say is, don't let your anarcho-geek pride cloud your judgment. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:48:00 - [144] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 13:40:14 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius quote pyramid Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to. As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported. Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely. I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"? Read this. It will scare you. Its a bit weird but until i read that, i wondered why Vista wouldnt let me play an original DVD when i could on XP, so in the end i just played it with VNC, problem solved. Bit silly i have to use another program to play a film i bought legally in a shop. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:48:00 - [145] Originally by: CaperPuts Running Vista Home Premium, and it works great. I have two gigs of RAM, I took one out, and some games ran a bit crappier than when I had 1 gig with XP, but hey... 2 gigs is recommended for most newer things anyways. Basically, my only complaint it that it uses a bit more resources. All my XP drivers worked with Vista, installing it was way faster than XP, and easier... and XP was easy to begin with. Vista looks much nicer. Is Doom 3 or Quake 4 OpenGL? I ran both on Vista, neither seemed to perform worse on my PC compared to XP. They are openGL. the point is not that Vista can't do open GL. In fact, the thing is openGL can be used in all 3 major OSes, and directx gives no major advantages over OpenGL.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:49:00 - [146] Originally by: CaperPuts Running Vista Home Premium, and it works great. I have two gigs of RAM, I took one out, and some games ran a bit crappier than when I had 1 gig with XP, but hey... 2 gigs is recommended for most newer things anyways. Basically, my only complaint it that it uses a bit more resources. All my XP drivers worked with Vista, installing it was way faster than XP, and easier... and XP was easy to begin with. Vista looks much nicer. Is Doom 3 or Quake 4 OpenGL? I ran both on Vista, neither seemed to perform worse on my PC compared to XP. Try being cursed like me, i have XP and Vista 64bit editions, in this scenario, Vista is a complete nightmare to maintain. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:50:00 - [147] Edited by: Xrak on 15/03/2007 18:46:32 Quote: First guy : ARGH THE SKY IS FALLING AND WE ARE ALL DOOMED IF WE USE VISTA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Second guy : Erm, I have it installed and works fine? I think that just about sums up this thead Originally by: Empress Aphrodite ("don't flush it yet - let's freshen up the room a little")
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.15 19:19:00 - [148] Originally by: Xtro 2 Originally by: CaperPuts Running Vista Home Premium, and it works great. I have two gigs of RAM, I took one out, and some games ran a bit crappier than when I had 1 gig with XP, but hey... 2 gigs is recommended for most newer things anyways. Basically, my only complaint it that it uses a bit more resources. All my XP drivers worked with Vista, installing it was way faster than XP, and easier... and XP was easy to begin with. Vista looks much nicer. Is Doom 3 or Quake 4 OpenGL? I ran both on Vista, neither seemed to perform worse on my PC compared to XP. Try being cursed like me, i have XP and Vista 64bit editions, in this scenario, Vista is a complete nightmare to maintain. As I understand it, 64 bit drivers (especially graphics ones) are broken more than interdictors in Vista. Might explain that. Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Down with alts! One character per account per IP!
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.03.15 19:46:00 - [149] You are all talking as if you are actually gonna be forced to buy vista lol Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 19:51:00 - [150] Originally by: DirtyHarry You are all talking as if you are actually gonna be forced to buy vista lol I don't even want to have to consider it as requirement for a game. It's simply retarded that the only way to legally get DirectX is to buy a crap OS. The technology can be separated as Wine/Cedega proves, but why are MS being asshats about it and not just making it cross platform? Ah, oh yes. Because they know their product is inferior, so they wave money at the devs and all is well... except that my computer has a cough. Some weird virus going around.

Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.15 19:58:00 - [151] Originally by: Qolde Originally by: DirtyHarry You are all talking as if you are actually gonna be forced to buy vista lol I don't even want to have to consider it as requirement for a game. It's simply retarded that the only way to legally get DirectX is to buy a crap OS. The technology can be separated as Wine/Cedega proves, but why are MS being asshats about it and not just making it cross platform? Ah, oh yes. Because they know their product is inferior, so they wave money at the devs and all is well... except that my computer has a cough. Some weird virus going around. My one biggest beef about Vista is the whole issue with DirectX 10. Microsoft has long said it would be too much of a technical hurdle to get it into XP, and that might be true, but it seems like it's motivated more to get people to upgrade. Meaning dollar signs is the primary motivator. Truly, what reason does a gamer need to upgrade their XP system (which is probably running relatively stable at the moment) to Vista? None. Developers will move to DX10 when Microsoft starts to whittle away support for older APIs and operating systems, and suddenly the only place to put a game no a PC will be Vista. Forced upgrades for the lose. Now all that being said, I'm pretty sure CCP will do some amazing things with DX10 in their Vista client. I'd upgrade for that alone. Well, that and my current PC is starting to slowly die from old age. But you sure won't see me running out to drop a few grand on a Vista-capable gaming machine so I can play Crysis. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Reuv Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:36:00 - [152] Originally by: Impericus Because i dont use MS OS anymore.... and I dont intend to support them. Aww all the MS haters are coming out of the woodwork, isn't that cute. Y'all can always pick up a PS3 since windows is the debil. Anyone will complain about anything, given the chance.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:43:00 - [153] i will run eve on vista if vista become open source http://bob.justgotowned.com/
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:50:00 - [154] What kills me about it is that CCP is spending the time and money to make 2 brand new clients with brand new graphics. One in DX9, and one in DX10. The ONLY DIFFERENCE is that the DX9 one won't be able to use the "walk around in stations" feature, and the DX10 one will. The updates are otherwise functionally identical. Why choose DX10 over OpenGL? As another poster has already stated, OpenGL is already well ahead of DX10 in 3D prowess. CCP could have done much more with an OpenGL setup than they will ever be able to do with a DX10 setup, so there is no technical reason why they should pick DX10 over OpenGL. OpenGL is available on more than one platform, so this opens up their marketing potential. More available machines to play EVE on means more potential clients for EVE. From a marketing perspective choosing DX10 makes no sense either. If it makes less sense technically, and less sense for Marketing, why in the world would they choose the inferior DX10 over OpenGL? Well, several possibilities come to mind: - Training: It's possible that most of their staff is trained on Direct X development tools, and the costs of training up staff for new development software are too high. This kind of internal pressure would explain the move to DX10, but does not explain the reasoning behind leaving off content for DX9 users. I think we can list this as a side factor, and not the primary factor in the decision. - Familiarity / Laziness: Again, this is another internal pressure that was probably part of the decision. But like the "Training" section above, does not explain the DX10/DX9 content disparity, and so cannot be properly listed as a primary portion of the decision. - Money/Pressure from Microsoft: Microsoft is well known for it's willingness to use it's market dominance in less than scrupulous ways. Right now Microsoft is under tremendous pressure from Mac and Linux for the Desktop marketplace. They are already getting trounced in the browser wars by Firefox, and some of their long-standing partners in the PC and Server world are now also selling Linux. They need to do everything they can to maintain their position as market leader. With the Delays in Vista they needed something beyond the function of the Operating system itself to convince people to move to Vista. Games and DX10 are their hook. But if no one uses DX10, they are sunk. I think we have a situation here where CCP was either granted some favors, or flat-out bribed to make the new EVE feature-set a DX10-only thing. Money from Microsoft is the only proper explanation for this type of behavior. It explains the choice of less-featured DX10 over OpenGL, and it absolutely explains the content disparity between DX10 and DX9 clients. Have no doubts about it. CCP was bought off by MS to make the new content DX10 only. There simply isn't any other explanation that fits. Now. HAVING SAID ALL THAT: This is CCP's game. They have a right to develop it in any way that they want. It is simply frustrating for us that want to move AWAY from DRM encumbered and crappy operating systems towards something with more liberty. We would also like to be able to play EVE with all the features available. It just seems a shame to us that our money isn't as good as Microsoft's.
Impericus	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:05:00 - [155] Originally by: Bish Ounen What kills me about it is that CCP is spending the time and money to make 2 brand new clients with brand new graphics. One in DX9, and one in DX10. The ONLY DIFFERENCE is that the DX9 one won't be able to use the "walk around in stations" feature, and the DX10 one will. The updates are otherwise functionally identical. Why choose DX10 over OpenGL? As another poster has already stated, OpenGL is already well ahead of DX10 in 3D prowess. CCP could have done much more with an OpenGL setup than they will ever be able to do with a DX10 setup, so there is no technical reason why they should pick DX10 over OpenGL. OpenGL is available on more than one platform, so this opens up their marketing potential. More available machines to play EVE on means more potential clients for EVE. From a marketing perspective choosing DX10 makes no sense either. If it makes less sense technically, and less sense for Marketing, why in the world would they choose the inferior DX10 over OpenGL? Well, several possibilities come to mind: - Training: It's possible that most of their staff is trained on Direct X development tools, and the costs of training up staff for new development software are too high. This kind of internal pressure would explain the move to DX10, but does not explain the reasoning behind leaving off content for DX9 users. I think we can list this as a side factor, and not the primary factor in the decision. - Familiarity / Laziness: Again, this is another internal pressure that was probably part of the decision. But like the "Training" section above, does not explain the DX10/DX9 content disparity, and so cannot be properly listed as a primary portion of the decision. - Money/Pressure from Microsoft: Microsoft is well known for it's willingness to use it's market dominance in less than scrupulous ways. Right now Microsoft is under tremendous pressure from Mac and Linux for the Desktop marketplace. They are already getting trounced in the browser wars by Firefox, and some of their long-standing partners in the PC and Server world are now also selling Linux. They need to do everything they can to maintain their position as market leader. With the Delays in Vista they needed something beyond the function of the Operating system itself to convince people to move to Vista. Games and DX10 are their hook. But if no one uses DX10, they are sunk. I think we have a situation here where CCP was either granted some favors, or flat-out bribed to make the new EVE feature-set a DX10-only thing. Money from Microsoft is the only proper explanation for this type of behavior. It explains the choice of less-featured DX10 over OpenGL, and it absolutely explains the content disparity between DX10 and DX9 clients. Have no doubts about it. CCP was bought off by MS to make the new content DX10 only. There simply isn't any other explanation that fits. Now. HAVING SAID ALL THAT: This is CCP's game. They have a right to develop it in any way that they want. It is simply frustrating for us that want to move AWAY from DRM encumbered and crappy operating systems towards something with more liberty. We would also like to be able to play EVE with all the features available. It just seems a shame to us that our money isn't as good as Microsoft's. wouldnt surprise me if this was the case...
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:07:00 - [156] Wait a second guys, I'm no fan of Vista (mostly because it's supposedly a memory/CPU hog), but I SERIOUSLY doubt that Microsoft "bought out" CCP. How much money would Microsoft have to shell out to do that? If Vista is such a horrible operating system, switching to Vista will cause customers to leave. And if customers leave, then CCP loses money. Therefore, in order for Microsoft to "buy out" CCP, they must give CCP more money than CCP would lose by switching to Vista. Unless CCP is too stupid to realise that they would lose money by forcing users to switch to an bad operating system. But I trust CCP's shareholders to be greedy enough to know otherwise. Furthermore, why would Microsoft "buy out" CCP? CCP has less than 200,000 active accounts, a considerable amount of which are (BoB) alts. That means that "buying out" CCP would net them 100,000 more customers - most of which would probably eventually switch over to Vista anyways (it's the same thing that happened with 95, 98 and XP). And if Microsoft were "buying out" CCP, who else are they buying out? Electronic Arts? Sierra? Vivendi? To put it bluntly, it's not in CCP's best interest to make a client for Vista, just because Microsoft offered them a bit of money. It would have to be enough money to make even Linus Torvald sweat a little. Most likely, CCP is making a Vista client because they predict that Vista is going to become the new dominant home operating system, or because DirectX 10 offers something that DirectX 9 doesn't. Whether we M$ haters like it or not. And as for OpenGL, that would probably require CCP to scrap their entire engine. "Upgrading" to DirectX 10 is a lot easier than having to rewrite the entire engine from scratch using an entirely different API. By sticking with DirectX, they can keep the basic design of the engine the same. Now, all this being said, I'm all for CCP switching over to OpenGL and avoiding Vista like the plague. But let's face it - they are their own masters, they can do what they want to. I know that DRM thing about Vista is a pain, but as has been said before, nobody is forcing you to buy Vista. There are thousands of Linux distros out there, and you can make a lot of stuff happen with WINE these days.
Trinity Faetal Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:12:00 - [157] don't anger the Dark Shikari, you won't like him when he's angry. stupid unix boy -- Enjoy The Silence
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:25:00 - [158] Originally by: Trinity Faetal don't anger the Dark Shikari, you won't like him when he's angry. stupid unix boy What will he do? Intimidate me with commands that have two dozen options? Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Sable Lowell Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:35:00 - [159] Originally by: Laboratus Are there any plans of developing a linux client? Are you polish, or just that dumb?
Masheine	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:58:00 - [160] This thread is proof that using Linux causes brain damage.

Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:58:00 - [161] What was the difference between Windows 98 and Windows XP ? Your PC had to have more memory and a bigger CPU for functionally little difference. What will the difference between Windows XP and Vista be ? More of the same ? I guess so. On top of this you'll move from a stable environment to an unstable one AND have to upgrade all your other software. New hardware and new software just to be able to launch the same programs,,, hmmmm. I'm not an advocate of Microsoft "Progress", seems as though all this involves is perminantly running tasks hogging memory and cpu doing dubiously suspect stuff - looks at the 10+ services I end almost every time I start my PC. All of which you don't need to run Eve, all using memory and doing sweet FA. The point some people seem to be missing is you buy Vista in the name of "Progress" and find you've gone to an operating system that takes more resources simply to run. I will probably go Vista sometime within the next 2 years. However I just resent the fact the operating never gets slimmer or optimised, it always gets bigger and slower. Why can't we have a games version of windows with all the junk chucked out ?
Sable Lowell Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:16:00 - [162] Edited by: Sable Lowell on 15/03/2007 23:14:56 With correct hardware and software that utilizes Vista correctly, it is actually faster. It is very different than current versions of windows. for one thing, it is way more stable. one example is that drivers are no longer kernel based, so if you graphics card messes up, you computer doesn't go boom, it just restarts the graphics and you're good to go. It is more secure (a lot of the security can be disabled). One reason why things run much slower is because software and hardware is not compatible, there's a lot of small things that are different, such as the fact that programs are not allowed to write to the registry or the program files directory (which Microsoft has been warning software developers to not do for years, it is the developers fault, not MS) A majority of the bad rep Vista is getting is because of the DRM issue. yes, it is very restrictive, but it's also not all Microsoft's fault. And as for MS forcing media manufacturer's into using their DRM, that is false. They can still use the current DRM or not use one at all. Vista makes it available, media companies utilize it. As for the argument of DX10 vs. OpenGL, i do not know enough about the two to say much, but there are 2 things that I have found. The first was I have never seen an MMO look so good as the WIC does using DX10. If OpenGL is far superior, why does it not look better? And from what I've found on Google, OpenGL takes a lot more resources and higher requirements to provide the same graphics that DX10 does, so you can make better graphics in DX, making it available to a wider player base that do not have brand new computers. I could keep going on and on about why the features Vista implemented are good, and I can also go on and on why they are bad. As for me, I won't be upgrading to Vista anytime soon, I have no need to. I will when the majority of new games require it though. And also, CCP cannot support Linux or Mac with WIC since DX10 is owned by MS. I think Vista is really cool, and really ****ty at the same time. There are reasons why they did everything, some good, some bad, some greedy. For 90% of you posting on here, do your own damn research, you have no idea what you are talking about, you just read a paragraph from something and then jump on the "OMG I hate M$" bandwagon, when if you were smart, you would do your own research, and realize the truth. Edit: And no, I am not pro-MS or pro-Vista. I am, however, anti-idiocy that comes from most people who post about how they hate Microsoft, when they don't have a clue what they are trolling about.
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:17:00 - [163] How much is 1 million us dollars in eve subs? How much is 1 mil to MS? Anyway, it's not upgrading to DX10 that's so bothersome as using DX over OpenGL in the FIRST Place. Back before OpenGL 2.0, yet after DX6 I think it was(really not sure), DirectX was actually slightly better for like a year or so. MS used this to fill developers heads with the crap that made them switch to it over OpenGL. So now you have this sad generation of games that only work on windows, and will be relegated to the realms of emulators like every other piece of software built on proprietary junk before them. Switching to OpenGL is said to not be so hard, because once you understand one, the other isn't too different. Fix Inertia Stabs!!!
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:20:00 - [164] Oh, and every single good "new" feature that Vista has, has been on either Mac or Linux for a while now. Every bad feature is MS' own abominations that nobody wants anyway.
Sable Lowell Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:24:00 - [165] Originally by: Qolde Oh, and every single good "new" feature that Vista has, has been on either Mac or Linux for a while now. Every bad feature is MS' own abominations that nobody wants anyway. Any specific examples that are not part of natural progression?
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:26:00 - [166] Originally by: Qolde Switching to OpenGL is said to not be so hard, because once you understand one, the other isn't too different. Switching now would be an ungodly time-consuming project. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing it done... DirectX.. Well, I can't say authoritatively whether it's Microsoft (DX), nVidia (drivers) or retarded engineers (actual hardware), but I've had plenty of problems with DirectX over the years. Never had any problems running anything that uses OpenGL. Unfortunately, years after a game is released is a really poor time to be switching between DX/OpenGL. Hideous amounts of code would have to be modified. Modified code means testing. Both mean stupid amounts of time consumed. Stupid amounts of time consumed means less fun happy forward progress with the rest of EVE. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Mintaric	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:02:00 - [167] I am running Vista Ultimate 64 now. It is a rock solid OS. Never crashes, never locks up. Haven't encountered any bugs with it. However, drivers are buggy and I blame hardware vendors for not getting their act together. In my case I have drivers for all of my hardware and it's running great. This is not the case for everyone but drivers are maturing. For me gaming in Vista as at the same speed as gaming in XP. No difference at all. There is alot to like about Vista and there are some irritating things but mostly I think it's a positive.
Mintaric	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:04:00 - [168] Originally by: Qolde Oh, and every single good "new" feature that Vista has, has been on either Mac or Linux for a while now. Every bad feature is MS' own abominations that nobody wants anyway. Not true at all. Several featurs in Windows are lacking in Linux and OSX, several more have been copied. Of course Windows has copied from others as well. It's the way things go. Linux is just a pain in the ass and not worth my time and until I can run OSX on a PC of my choice i'm not going to use it.
annab Amarr FireStar Inc	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:28:00 - [169] Edited by: annab on 16/03/2007 00:30:42 Edited by: annab on 16/03/2007 00:26:38 I have vista ultimate on a laptop for work. Its ok. 1. DMC I can understand why they added it as a independent games developer who make his own games. It is a bit of a **** take when someone buys the game and starts selling copies on his/her site. Although taking the fecker to court was worth it. Go my money back. I could have put the time and money in to something else. We are talking ú300 not much to most people but to an independent developer you may as well have given him my budget for my next game. However going as far as to stop/degrade content is a step too far. I would have gone for a bit of code that sends the users location and name to company and let them decide what to do. Saves so much time. 2. DX10 well having looked at the idea behind it you has more power and easier programming. Sounds good from where I'm standing. ItÆs until you get to the documentation. Around 90% of my old code will need to be reworked including my games. Well fun just waiting for the DX10 version update for my tools. DX9 emulator on DX10 works ok but I'm not happy with it due to the lower speed. This is more due to drivers being crap. DX10 vs DX9 See the difference just put your mouse on pics. Just two reasons I'll be upgrading in a years time. 1. Drives. 2. Bugs in its program. I remember when XP was new and had all the bad drivers and bugs. Lets wait two or three months then see where everything is at.
ghosttr Amarr The Silent Rage FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:29:00 - [170] I think a better graphical version should be available but I dont think we should have to install such garbage as windows visa on our machines. I had it installed for about a week then i reverted back to xp. It was about the slowest os i had ever experienced, took more resources, and gave nothing but nag screens, it also didnt seem to like overclocking. Its a bigger slower os with nothing to offer but more hassle and slower loadtimes. I dont want to miss the walking in stations, but i refuse to install that garbage on my pc. I think ccp should seriously reconsider using something more flexible such as opengl. That way eve can be easily ported to other operating systems. CCP has always been great at supporting a wide variety of sytems, and i think that they should continue to support a wide variety of systems instead of limiting eve to a small amount of people on a small amount of systems. HELP FIX THE DRONE REGIONS!!!

Billl Gates	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:32:00 - [171] Bow down to me, mortals.
4rc4ng3L Gallente Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:44:00 - [172] Originally by: Billl Gates Bow down to me, mortals. bows Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...*
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 06:55:00 - [173] Originally by: Mintaric Not true at all. Several featurs in Windows are lacking in Linux and OSX, several more have been copied. Lets see if I got this part right: you are saying that either or both, Linux and OS X, copied features available in Windows Vista? Is that the correct interpretation of what you said? Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:27:00 - [174] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Xtro 2 Try being cursed like me, i have XP and Vista 64bit editions, in this scenario, Vista is a complete nightmare to maintain. As I understand it, 64 bit drivers (especially graphics ones) are broken more than interdictors in Vista. Might explain that. eh? I run XP x86 and Vista x64 on the same box. It works perfectly. No problem with graphics drivers at all. Indeed Vista now downloads the latest 3rd party drivers for all your hardware from the windows update site (as they now HAVE to be signed off by MS. A good thing IMHO) What make of gfx card are you using?
Pepe Prawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:44:00 - [175] Quote: They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay Good. If i wanted "station-based gameplay" i will go play sims. I am not a shrimp! I am a king prawn, okay?
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:45:00 - [176] Originally by: Vladimir Ilych [...]as they now HAVE to be signed off by MS. A good thing IMHO[...] On the flip side - not a good thing. It virtually allows MS to control who enters the video card market and who doesn't. Heh. Would you look at that? I've added something tin-foil hat worthy to this thread. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:50:00 - [177] Edited by: Laboratus on 16/03/2007 08:46:32 I'm not really into windows, but his hot sister DirectX... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats

Redundancy	Posted - 2007.03.16 09:55:00 - [178] Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature.

Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:00:00 - [179] Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Thanks! Only took us 7 pages to get that. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.

Redundancy	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:04:00 - [180] Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me.


Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:12:00 - [181] I'm looking forward to weeks of people linking to this thread and denouncing all those who jumped to conclusions ------ Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) Army of doom headcount: 26,045
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:13:00 - [182] Originally by: Redundancy Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me. Post with your main! Stupid dont have any friends
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:15:00 - [183] Originally by: Redundancy Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me. Ach! Sorry to hear that. Thanks for clearing things up, tho. It's much appreciated. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Ealiom Blackhole Entry Point	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:27:00 - [184] Edited by: Ealiom on 16/03/2007 10:24:15 I dont want to be the one to say 'told ya so' and slap you all on the back of the head. So i'll bring an alt in to do it for me Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dravin Dread	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:43:00 - [185] Originally by: Dark Shikari I want to know how much Microsoft is paying them for programming the station environment in DirectX10-only code. This is nearly unheard of and absolutely ridiculous. Chances are, CCP is paying MS for access to DX10 and Vista now, through MSDN if nothing else. MS started as a company creating programing laungauges and has never stopped. MS is its own best customer.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:51:00 - [186] Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Xtro 2 Try being cursed like me, i have XP and Vista 64bit editions, in this scenario, Vista is a complete nightmare to maintain. As I understand it, 64 bit drivers (especially graphics ones) are broken more than interdictors in Vista. Might explain that. eh? I run XP x86 and Vista x64 on the same box. It works perfectly. No problem with graphics drivers at all. Indeed Vista now downloads the latest 3rd party drivers for all your hardware from the windows update site (as they now HAVE to be signed off by MS. A good thing IMHO) What make of gfx card are you using? GFX cards are SLI'd - 2x XFX Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB Fastest Clock/Core Speed Model. Vista works for some thigns ok yer, but it certainyl doesnt have all the optimised/correct drivers for everything, it has a large selection yes, but theres still gaping holes, and some drivers are just generic types rather than optimised specific built ones. Ive been using XP x64 more than Vista as it has a better driver base for me, and more of my software works, some have already clashed with Vista, not many but enough. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:54:00 - [187] 64Bit ED Vista with 2 of the new XFX NVidia 8800GTX cards SLI'd actually runs the same or slower than my Win XP32bit using my old 7800card. At least according to 3dmark and some other tools, very minimal differences to be of great benefit, most websites ive read say its probably due to the 8800's 64bit drivers being horrid. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:32:00 - [188] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Actually,it would be a VERY bad idea to go over to open GL.From what I have heard,future versions of windows will no longer have native open GL support. Instead,they will have a direct-x wrapper that translates open gl calls to direct-x. Yes,this will be slower. In the future,open GL will suck on windows machines,which probably means open gl will be dead on windows machines. Will we see direct-x 10 autocad?
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:39:00 - [189] As always the anti Vista brigade make me lmao. Give it 1yr from now and most of you will be running it.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Ka Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 12:45:12 CCP are notorious for being Microsoft shills. They use Microsoft server OSs and even ASP server, even though as a result their forums and web server are incredibly unreliable and slow. They chose the best technology for the job. DirectX 10 was that technology. What your suggesting is that they stay with old technology and in time the game will become dated. Great! The forums and web server being slow had nothing to do with Microsoft technology. Other companies are doing extremely well with it. You appear to be the 'shill' with your biased and uninformed comments. Who are you working for? Sun? IBM? or just an open sores zealot? Paratwa Recruitment

Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:04:00 - [191] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:00:32 Originally by: Gariuys Why is that a huge dissapointment... everybody and their mother develop for windows OS... but your dissapointed cause there's companies out there that both develop for windows OS, AND push the boundaries... yeah big dissapointment there. Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. Not here. I refuse to 'downgrade' to that bloated heap of rubbish they call an OS. Let it die the way of Windows ME. Snip for trolling - Timmeh - 27/3/07 My first mod edit.
MuadChef Amarr Fate.	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:05:00 - [192] maybe people are missing the point of DX10.. it is only available with Windows Vista. That means that the majority of new games will be DirectX 10. But with this comes much better graphics, shaders etc, therefore IMO it is worth paying the Vista Fee for DX10. Also, what would be worse: You have to pay upgrade from XP to Vista (ú70) or CCP turns round and goes.. Sorry guys, "Apple is teh 'uber', to play eve you need OSX..." Think of the change if / when it happens as a move into the future of graphics for games.. I for one would have no problems with this change.. Fate Corp
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:14:00 - [193] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:00:32 Originally by: Gariuys Why is that a huge dissapointment... everybody and their mother develop for windows OS... but your dissapointed cause there's companies out there that both develop for windows OS, AND push the boundaries... yeah big dissapointment there. Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. Not here. I refuse to 'downgrade' to that bloated heap of rubbish they call an OS. Let it die the way of Windows ME. Sure, your just one of the many that whine about a new OS and think it's cool to shout it down. Lets face it, you WILL have to bow down to MS on this one and move on at some stage.... exactly as all the win16 users had too when XP was born.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:22:00 - [194] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Kinda confusing. Ship lovers click here
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:29:00 - [195] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 27/03/2007 12:26:20 Originally by: tiller Sure, your just one of the many that whine about a new OS and think it's cool to shout it down. Lets face it, you WILL have to bow down to MS on this one and move on at some stage.... exactly as all the win16 users had too when XP was born. MS have purposely broken ALL VB programs which access DX8 on Vista. They will NEVER work because MS purposely excluded one single required DLL (dx8vb.dll). They purposely excluded it even though just copying the DLL over allows all those programs to work, MS refuse to allow anyone to do that because 'it will be in breach of the distribution license'. MS won't put the DLL into the MS install package or update, and they wont allow anyone to install it themselves. Intentionally breaking backward compatibility to generate more sales for themselves. Just one example of why Vista should die the way of Windows ME. BTW, I bow down to no one...ever. I use XP and 2k, but if they ever break I'll goto Linux. NO way am I being forced to Vista. Snip for trolling - Timmeh - 27/3/07 My first mod edit.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:37:00 - [196] Trusted Computing and DRM are Microsoft finally shooting itself in the foot with a silver bullet. As much as I will hate learning to use a new OS when half my stuff doesn't work on my computer because it happens to be two years old and not MS certified, when such a huge amount of my computers resources are being used up it effects my gaming, when I can't run the programs I love because MS doesn't like them or they won't pay for certification. Then I will be moving to another OS and sooner or later I won't be in the minority. That is of course if Microsoft survives the lawyers, the EU, trading standards, etc, etc, etc. They are right on the line of legality as it is and pushing harder each patch. An operating system is supposed to be a tool to make using your computer and accessing your programs easier. Somewhere along the line Microsoft seem to have forgotten that. EVE wise I'm glad DX9 will remain supported. I'm pretty sure CCP are well aware of how opinionated and nerdy it's customer base is and will in it's own interests continue to support at least 95% of us.
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:40:00 - [197] Originally by: Fenlaw Wonder why the x-box isn't hdcp compliant.. it does have the optional hd-dvd player..... makes you wonder doesn't it Simple, the xbox 360 doesn't have digital output, only analog, so not useful for people that want to make digital copies of HD content. We're sorry, something happened.
MrBreaker Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.27 13:39:00 - [198] An anti Microsoft, anti Vista thread, I cant let this one go. I have been running Vista RTM since November, the only irk I have is with lower graphics performance, which has less to do with Vista itself than the new driver model. Nvidia and ATi's Vista drivers still aren't up to the XP ones for performance. Apart from that I love Vista, and wouldn't want to lose all the nice little additions by going back to XP. As for Linux, Im sure it has its uses, but the only thing I want to do after installing it is uninstalling it.
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:17:00 - [199] Edited by: jamesw on 27/03/2007 15:14:59 Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Wow. Great read. Up until now I have been a bit "ho hum, next upgrade, whatever" about Vista, but after reading that, no way. No way in hell. Encryption required on basically all traffic between components of the PC?? Perhaps my favourite quote from it: But what if the Vista content-protection technology had instead been applied towards malware protection? Instead of a separate protection domain for video playback, we might have a separate protection domain for banking and credit card details. Instead of specialised anti-debugging technigues to stop users getting at even one frame of protected content, we could have those same techniques combatting malware hooking itself into the OS. The list goes on and on, with all of the effort being misapplied to DRM when it could have been used to combat malware instead. What a waste. What a waste. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:34:00 - [200] Problem with me is: If I use any form of Linux, I need to install a load of software to get it to run like I use XP (I like the interface, and little things). After all of that, it runs just like XP does, minus the MS badge. Only difference with MS OS' is that I have to remove things to make it run like I want. Same outcome (I get them running how I want/like), just different ways of doing it. I've been using Vista for about a month now-ish. I've disabled quite a few of the services I didn't need, and I've disabled the user protection. I've had no issues with playing DVD's or content, or evening playing SACD' over my X-Fi on SPDIF (that article is rubbish DS - bar the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray arguement, ignore most of it). I also notice a lot of users bashing Vista for it's memory usage, which is just Vista reserving memory for your most used programs. You've actualy got all that memory free. It's an ingeinous system. The only reason Vista doesn't perform like my Linux and XP installs, is because of the driver support, which we all know will develop over time. I've not been locked out of any content, or control of my machine. It really just depends if you want to go through the services and registry disabling a few of the things that you don't need for Vista, or want to install all the UI mods and such that you need under Linux. Some of you really are just bashing for bashing's sake. --- Cache Clearer

James Potkukelkka Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:04:00 - [201] I forgot who I heard the joke from, but speaking of vista.. would be kinda fitting if EVE would come in 10 different versions if it did require vista to play. Imagine: EVE home: basic functions EVE business: you have access to market as well EVE student version: you can use research EVE professional: You can fit t2 modules and so on -- dance for life
Soumk	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:06:00 - [202] Anybody with a PC is a slave to Microsoft.
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:12:00 - [203] WTS A CLUE. CCP is making DX9 versions of everything.. seriously can't stand people who make ignorant uninformed posts about things like this.
Reiaandra Ilin	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:23:00 - [204] Edited by: Reiaandra Ilin on 27/03/2007 16:20:56 Vista == evil and not because of the performance hit no because M$ is trying to take control of our computers and what we do with them Bill Gates is a slave to Hollywood even though he holds all the power... maybe CCP should still think about openGl Vista == Big Brother
Regat Kozovv Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:29:00 - [205] Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. I've seen write up posted many times, and I'm always critical of it. It's long, well-written, piece of FUD. He constantly invokes phrases such as "probably" or "it could", as opposed to getting the real facts. And the arguments that DRM protection methods be used to combat malware seem to rank right up there with the misapplied logic that CCP should have content writers fixing bugs. =P I do not like DRM either, but so what if Vista supports it? Vista also happens to run non-DRMed stuff just fine. Bill Gates has even said publicly that if you want music that you can actually do stuff with, then your best bet is to buy a CD and rip it. Don't like DRMed media? Don't buy it. But don't bash Vista just because it supports it. Macs support DRM from Apple, and I don't see people throwing them out. I fail to understand why computer choice has become such a political issue. If you don't like Vista, don't use it. No one's cramming it down your throat. But don't whine and complain if you're in the minority of people who refuse to use it and there's no software being written for you. There's no secret conspiracy to get everyone on the Microsoft boat, just like there was no IBM comspiracy to get everyone using their machines. If CCP decided that they wanted to make DX10 mandatory for the upcoming client, then they are certainly within their means to do so. Certainly it would be a poor decision on their part, and I think they are quite aware of that. But don't suggest that somehow you're entitled to your own build just because you run a different OS. You're not.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:31:00 - [206] Originally by: Reiaandra Ilin Edited by: Reiaandra Ilin on 27/03/2007 16:20:56 Vista == evil and not because of the performance hit no because M$ is trying to take control of our computers and what we do with them Bill Gates is a slave to Hollywood even though he holds all the power... maybe CCP should still think about openGl Vista == Big Brother Maybe you should run linux...
Rhaegor Stormborn	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:36:00 - [207] I could care less about walking in stations, and if that is the only reason to upgrade to vista/directx10 for Eve, I think I will pass. If there are other reasons, like better graphics and smoother gameplay, I will shell ou the money for Vista as I already have an 8800GTS video card.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:12:00 - [208] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Stuff Signed, seconded, agreed. quoted, QFT, IADS and DWDS.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:28:00 - [209] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm looking forward to weeks of people linking to this thread and denouncing all those who jumped to conclusions Hmm... I guess I shall consider myself well and properly denounced I haven't been this glad to be wrong in a long time. Thanks CCP!
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:31:00 - [210] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Kinda confusing. Very confusing indeed. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.

Talthrus Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:33:00 - [211] So is the DX9 engine going to have new graphics or am I stuck with these ancient graphics? I'm currently running a 7950GX2 on XP and see absolutely no point in upgrading right now. What is the primary difference between the DX9 and DX10 engines going to be? ----------------------
Aduna Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:51:00 - [212] Originally by: Dammar It's no secret CCP are in bed with microsoft(or they try very hard to be at least) as I've seen people point out MS's direct-x page and right there on it is a picture of eve. This has become a good thing gone bad I guess. i thought you were lying when i read this, so i decided to check out the directx website myself. how very, very sad.
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2007.03.27 18:00:00 - [213] I find it quite amusing to see so many shouting out their doomsay, based on hysterical hypothesis, rather to choose to debate about the choice people actually can make. Because you can choose to migrate to a different platform or OS, and arguments like "difficulity on adapting" lack relevance as the differences between the OS'es has greatly faded away over the years. Now, if it boils down to convenience rather than taking a different path, and if you continue to voice your critism, it certainly look like you choose to be hypocrite because its easier and more convenient which is pretty asinine. Besides, what are you keeping on your harddrives you do not want Big Brother to know about at all costs, hm? -- Forum mentality is really like sex, everbody likes to be on top! Me too... although, I prefer doggy.
Reiisha Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.27 18:18:00 - [214] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus RPGGamer got it wrong, as a dev already explained in 1 or 2 other threads. 1) The Vista and XP clients will only differ on some use of shaders - They'll be exactly the same if you take away some of the sm4.0 stuff. 2) There will be no exclusive content for the Vista client. The walking stations demo was done on a DX9/XP machine, not a Vista PC. The only difference between the Vista and XP clients are a couple of shaders - nothing else. I'll say it again because some people will read over it and cry havoc anyway. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 09:44:00 - [215] Originally by: Reiisha The only difference between the Vista and XP clients are a couple of shaders - nothing else. I'll say it again because some people will read over it and cry havoc anyway. Kinda' why I stayed outta this one. Down in the tech forum the question about dx10 walking in stations came up after that article, and my response was....I doubt the article is correct, as CCP months ago indicated that no matter which "version" of the client you use, you will have access to the same mechanics. Much as I like CCP's marketing guy, marketing guys don't always know tech. As for the pro vista vs. anti everything else crowd, there are a lot of us who DO know our operating systems, and SOME of us prefer non MS created OS's for very good reasons. As to the 'linux' is sooo behind the times vs. Vista, please PLEASE take a look at my sig link. That's the desktop I use, and I haven't seen a shot of vista that can compare to that yet. Choice is a good thing, and one thing I've noticed reading through these pages are a TON of folks dissatisfied with microsoft. A couple years ago when we 'nix-ers' were trying to get EVE to work on linux, some of these threads cropped up, and the tone was MUCH different. Warms my heart to see that. --I don't hate MS. I prefer the best technical solution, not the best marketing one. Open source has been that solution for me for quite some time now, and I'm just damn glad CCP sees potential in it as well. Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE
Omatje Minmatar Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.28 11:53:00 - [216] I allways upgraded to newer Windows versions, upto the moment i read that DX10 will be a Vista thing only. That kind of policy will scare a lot of people away, and i see it in the same grade of popularity contests as Sony placing unwanted spyware on your computer. got no cool sig
Dematone Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:18:00 - [217] The problem is, that DirectX is mandatory. Why not use OpenGL? Just cause cheap code monkeys don't know anything else than proprietary crap, someone gave them a free trial for, to forever blind and bind them to the company? FUD 4tw
Allan Robertson Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:15:00 - [218] Good to hear that CCP is clearing that missunderstanding up, on the issue of Vista or not, I will never bother using it, it's packed with DRM and pointless features that I will never use and thus is bloated and memory hungry. I'm starting to switch to OSX and Linux based systems, ditching Windows alltogether. --- Say YES! to Mining Cargo Holds on barges!
Monica Foulkes Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:40:00 - [219] Originally by: Reiisha The only difference between the Vista and XP clients are a couple of shaders - nothing else. I'll say it again because some people will read over it and cry havoc anyway. And the shaders that differ will most likely be geometry shaders. If they are used we will end up with a great lot more polygons per ship instead of the current faked geometry added by DX 9 shaders (flat textures that only looks bumpy if they are directly illuminated). Another difference is that the DX 10 client most likely will be a fair bit faster as the renderpath has been cleaned up a lot between DX 9 and DX 10. This will not be noticed until nVidia and ATI has improved their driver writing skills for Vista though. Personally I will upgrade to Vista when the DX 10 client is out as it won't make me much good until then. We're sorry, something happened.
Savio Caldari The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:57:00 - [220] I bought vista business oem license.. and well i kinda enjoy using vista, i dont notice any performance drop, and compared to my mac i think vista is a nice OS.. they have their own advantages and dissadvantages, but i would prefer vista over OSX.. I think (and i know this is a taste thing) that vista looks better than OSX... and i am looking forward for a vista dx10 client :) . Need a Sign? Click Here

Amphetaminer	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:25:00 - [221] You would expect that a new OS would work better and more efficient but my PC has a 30% drop in performance when running vista in comparisson to XP. Now i usually play Eve on my laptop and it works fine but im not going to pay xx amount for Vista and also have half of my stuff not work well because Vista is so crappy
Savio Caldari The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:40:00 - [222] Originally by: Amphetaminer You would expect that a new OS would work better and more efficient but my PC has a 30% drop in performance when running vista in comparisson to XP. Now i usually play Eve on my laptop and it works fine but im not going to pay xx amount for Vista and also have half of my stuff not work well because Vista is so crappy Well on my computer i cant notice a performance drop. sure windows uses a bit more cpu when its idle but that about it.. Of cource on "older" machines the performance will drop, but that also happened with w2k and again with windows xp.. so its odd people are moaning so much about it.. . Need a Sign? Click Here
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.03.28 16:05:00 - [223] Yes they are. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Gatedeath	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:01:00 - [224] Originally by: Impericus I read an article on http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q1-2007/031307b.html regarding updates and future development of this game. Although a great thinks avait us, I got huge disapointed when I got to the end of this article and read this passage: Quote: A DirectX10 engine is currently being worked on and hopefully will release at or before the expected release of the station-based gameplay in 2008. Now, a DX10 engine means that Vista is also a requirement for the windows version. But XP users don't need to despair, as they will still be able to play the game. They will not, however, have access to the station-based gameplay. Also, at this time, it's unknown if the DX10 graphics and station gameplay will be ported to the OSX and Linux versions mentioned earlier. It seems that, on that front, the ball is in TransGaming's court. This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game. I really dont like the thought of shelling out money to support the OS monopoly. Especially after discovering that the grass is really greener on the otherside. Why was it decided to develop the game in directx anyway? If CCP is serious about running this game in years to come they should look into porting the game into openGL environment. your superior Impericus Translation: Waaaaaaaaa
Ticondrius Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.03.28 18:27:00 - [225] I already have Vista on my laptop, and am looking forward to playing EVE DX10 on it. I just hope the 7600go Nvidia chip is fast enough to handle it. Oh, and No, I will never ever buy standalone Vista to install on a desktop PC. Nor will i ever use Vista to run my entertainment center, which I already have a very reliable Gentoo Linux machine doing anyway (hardware dolby digital encoding, HDTV capable, blue ray drive, tivo functionality, DVD movie storage in the form of disc images on the internal hard drive, oh, and game console emulators for consoles about 1-2 steps behind the current edge and older. yes, I own a Wii and PS2, and do not plan to buy a PS3.) Oh, and yes, I almost forgot. I will be applying every "protected" game hack I can to get rid of excessive security overhead such as secureROM and other such things. I recently did so for a game I PURCHASED called Supreme Commander. The game's exe went from 3.3MB to just under 300KB...just by removing the SecureROM protection. The game's launching speed went from 1-2 minutes to get to the main menu, to less than 10 seconds. Interesting, isn't it? I'm just glad EVE has no need of such copy protection methods. RABBLE! RABBLERABBLE!! MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Monica Foulkes Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.03.28 19:09:00 - [226] Originally by: Ticondrius I already have Vista on my laptop, and am looking forward to playing EVE DX10 on it. I just hope the 7600go Nvidia chip is fast enough to handle it. I'm sorry to tell you this but the 7600go is DX9, it will never run DX10 games. We're sorry, something happened.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.03.28 20:55:00 - [227] I am not going to upgrade to Vista. So hope I have alternatives for station walking when this comes out as thats one of the main features I'm expecting atm. I'm willing to switch over to linux if I can get walking in stations in there without having to switch to Vista. I'm still rather optimistic beliving that alternative platform clients will have acsess to same content. If not ... well ... we will see. I'm sure clever empulator people would find some thrid party way to 'emulate' DX10 on other enviroments.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 22:47:00 - [228] Originally by: Redundancy Someone got their wires crossed... There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. I'm quoting this JUST in the hope that people will actually read it and get the point --------
Eru Aesir Caldari Cadian Special Operations Command Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.03.29 01:10:00 - [229] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/03/2007 14:11:10 Originally by: Fi T'Zeh DS that is indeed a terrifying document, and what I understand of it (which is about 70% of the terminology and 90% of the implications) seems incredibly screwy. BUT. Allow me this hypothesis, lets assume that the ONLY thing I use my PC for is playing games, forum whoring and working and playing the odd mp3. And that I own a nice big telly and a DVD player for watching most of the described premium content. Is Vista going to be bad for me? Or is it going to make the games I want to play even prettier with DX10 etc. (This isn't actually a hypothesis, basically my PC is a console with a keyboard. Admittedly it's a console with a keyboard that i built myself, but I've never wanted to watch a movie on a 19" screen...) Read about Trusted Computing. Its the next step. Its purpose is so that you cannot run any program that Microsoft has not approved. But yes, you are correct; if you don't watch any protected videos (Note that Microsoft wants all videos to be protected in their format, not just HD-DVD), it won't affect you that much. At least until they patch all copies of Vista with Trusted Computing and you can no longer run Firefox because its not Microsoft-Approved. Can not run anything not approved by MS? hmmm no its called DEP and you can turn if off... And it wasnt MS that wanted everything in sight protected it was the the movie makers going nuts over pirates that forced it not MS ----------------------------------------------- Best Dev response ever CCP Sharkbait: we are screwed...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.29 01:14:00 - [230] Originally by: Eru Aesir And it wasnt MS that wanted everything in sight protected it was the the movie makers going nuts over pirates that forced it not MS Well yeah, but MS didn't have to bend to it. They're the ones with the massive computing monopoly, not Hollywood- what are they going to do, stop people running their DVDs on computers?! Hollywood has no physical sway over MS, which just leaves lobbying. And honestly, if a company is willing to throw out it's morale integrity just because someone lobbied them to, they've done wrong. Period. --------

Eru Aesir Caldari Cadian Special Operations Command Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.03.29 01:21:00 - [231] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Eru Aesir And it wasnt MS that wanted everything in sight protected it was the the movie makers going nuts over pirates that forced it not MS Well yeah, but MS didn't have to bend to it. They're the ones with the massive computing monopoly, not Hollywood- what are they going to do, stop people running their DVDs on computers?! Hollywood has no physical sway over MS, which just leaves lobbying. And honestly, if a company is willing to throw out it's morale integrity just because someone lobbied them to, they've done wrong. Period. They can stop the DVD's being played....Sony did it with some of there CD's You can get round it of course, but it isnt legal ----------------------------------------------- Best Dev response ever CCP Sharkbait: we are screwed...
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.29 01:39:00 - [232] Edited by: Soulita on 29/03/2007 01:40:07 Originally by: The Slayer Originally by: Regat Kozovv Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you. Stuff Signed, seconded, agreed. quoted, QFT, IADS and DWDS. QFT, QFBBRBA (Quoted for better being read by all) I use an MS operating system right now, and have been using MS operating systems since ages. However, with the watchdog and control software build into Vista I will definatly never use Vista. Either MS removes this utter crap completely, or they can go F themselves. Many peeps I know use Linux, I will join them as soon as I upgrade my system, giving MS the kick in the rear they deserve for this bull.
Robinete Broadhead Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.29 02:30:00 - [233] Originally by: Redundancy Originally by: Victor Valka Only took us 7 pages to get that. Was ill yesterday, so no forum whoring for me. we can say that word now? Yes, I am an ALT in a NOOB Corp. Forum snip Please don not attempt to evade the profanity-filter. - Ivan K Market Watcher and buyer.
zenia starwalker	Posted - 2007.03.29 03:19:00 - [234] dont you cry babies have anything better than Microsoft top cry over? "OMGZ!!! %90 of the computers use Microsoft software OMGZ why is CCP making a game for The new windows operating systems, OMG." Its all about money, when CCP can make as much money of their investment programming for crappy Linux, they will. Obviously none of you own your own business.
The Rincewind	Posted - 2007.03.29 07:03:00 - [235] Originally by: Pabs Sco Vista sucks and I am glad CCP will keep a DX9 version, if you have ever tried Vista you'll now that on the same PC as XP you get a noticable drop in performance. Vista is buggy as hell (well it is a M$ product), I've just recently upgraded to a FX7600GS (buget is tight) and I will not be upgrading for atleast 2-3 years and before that I need to upgrade the rest of my PC. Graphics have nothing to do with the EvE gameplay and I belive the "Station Walkabout" will be nothing more than glorified GFX with very litle extra features. Vista suck, M$ Suck.... EvE ROCKS! Guys please correct me if i¦m wrong, but isn t the currently EvE Client running under DX 7-8? So if this is like i think, then we would also get a better enginge if the client for XP will work with all DX 9 features. So what is the current DX Version of the EvE-client? I mean infront of the effects we can enjoy atm.
Cairo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.29 07:08:00 - [236] Originally by: Digital Solaris Besides, what are you keeping on your harddrives you do not want Big Brother to know about at all costs, hm? You're obviously entitled to your opinion (which I won't delve into further), but you might not want to use the above argument to support it because it seriously weakens your position as a supporter of what is already considered an unpopular opinion by many. Not that there is or even SHOULD be anything wrong with having an unpopular opinion in itself - sometimes opinions are unpopular simply because they go against whatever is considered or accepted as the "truth" at THAT time by some other party. Such as whomever consider themselves (and can make others believe) to be the "majority" or "experts" on the matter and who are unwilling to accept a dissenting thought. What's wrong with using that argument is that it leads to a world where you do NOT have the right to an unpopular opinion or a dissenting thought. Where the freedoms of individuals are limited and the populace kept in check through methods OUR generation would consider a violation of our privacy but to which that FUTURE generation has grown used to one small bit at a time, not unlike the frog that boils to death because the heat has been turned up gradually. While today one can expect to have the right to an unpopular opinion or a private habbit some might consider weird, you appear to support the kind of system where everything is monitored, scrutinized and logged for some future use you can not possibly be privy to. "Freedom of Speech and How To Fight The System.doc" might not be a liability today in most countries (aside from being in a crappy proprietary format), but in some potential Big Brotherish future a log entry of your computer once having stored such might lead to trouble. "George W Bush gangbanged.jpg" might be a bit of good Photochopping fun today, but who's laughing when someone decides to raid your apartment for it? Reminds me of that case where children were temporarely taken away from their mother, who was threatened with jailtime over wanting to have some photos of her breastfeeding her child developed. Sure, it was just a kneejerk reaction by a photo technician from Texas, but imagine if in an attempt to avoid such "public" review of your sensitive photographs (to which you should have EVERY right) you kept them on your PC - out of sight and not disturbing anyone - and your home got raided simply because the filename "Breastfeeding Lolita.jpg" got flagged and some underpaid, overworked IT worker and their paid-by-results manager thought it was suspicious or just plain WRONG and called the cops? Honestly, the whole "What do you have to hide?" argument is a big, stinking pile of you-know-what. There's a ridiculous amount of data on computers out there, plenty of which people want to keep to themselves and that's none of anybody else's business. I bet you have such material on your computer, too, but naturally I wouldn't know about it because you want to keep it private. Fortunately for you I happen to support your right to that privacy.
Namkha Mahesh Amarr Dial M for Monkey	Posted - 2007.03.29 07:17:00 - [237] Originally by: Hilabana if you wish to play on a old computer with out dated software there is great DOS games like Pong still out there oh yes DOS was made by microsoft well there are lots of games from 1979 that did not use microsoft try the IBM song game ! No! Microsoft bought a OS called QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System), changed the floppy disk letter from C: to A: and renamed it PC-DOS/MS-DOS. QDOS -------------------------- Oscillating between dimensions
Arrgs Bondage and Veldspar	Posted - 2007.03.29 08:03:00 - [238] DS, I bought a laptop a few days ago and it came pre-loaded with Vista. I want to reformat to XP but I don't know how to get some of the nice little things back, mainly the wireless and power managment options, actually, that's it. It's a sony vaio My first video! Signature removed - lacks EVE-Online related content - Please email us if you have a question (and include the URL) - Jacques([email protected])
TomParad0x Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2007.03.29 10:30:00 - [239] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 15/03/2007 12:50:10 Originally by: Dark Shikari CCP promised that they would have an equivalent DirectX9 engine that would do everything the DirectX10 engine did, except without some of the extra effects. Apparently they're a bunch of lying shills. I guess Bill Gates has a alt working for CCP then But seriously, its probebly going to be around 2009/2010 when the station features come out, and by then we will all be on DX10 anyway. And even then someone will find a bug to view Station Avatars in a more..... Amusing manner The only way I will be on DX10 is if reactOS or wine support DX10. I fully intend not to upgrade to vista.
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.29 11:57:00 - [240] Originally by: TomParad0x Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 15/03/2007 12:50:10 Originally by: Dark Shikari CCP promised that they would have an equivalent DirectX9 engine that would do everything the DirectX10 engine did, except without some of the extra effects. Apparently they're a bunch of lying shills. I guess Bill Gates has a alt working for CCP then But seriously, its probebly going to be around 2009/2010 when the station features come out, and by then we will all be on DX10 anyway. And even then someone will find a bug to view Station Avatars in a more..... Amusing manner The only way I will be on DX10 is if reactOS or wine support DX10. I fully intend not to upgrade to vista. WINE has already indicated that there are projects in the works for dx10 for......drum roll.......XP. Yep. Google Summer of code projects for wine are ramping up dx10 stuff for xp, linux and mac. From the discussions of some of the wine devs, apparently the dx10 porting won't even be that hard. So much for microsoft keeping dx10 all to themselves. That all said, I'd prefer ogl 2.0 over dx10, but as has been mentioned before, if EVE is soo difficult to port to an ogl graphics platform, then for me....wine is the next best thing...and in some respects, better. Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE

Dorack	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:59:00 - [241] hay guys i dont post much but this one cought my eye. something to keep in mind when you debate the "vista" issues. 1) M$ still controls way to much of the market. this comes from the fact that companies such as HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, etc. only use Windows on the comsumer level computers. Why? because it has the most software released on the market. Why? because its so damed easy to program for and there are thousands of "windows" programming libraries to do everything from this forum to games like EVE. 2) I agree that unless software like WINE can bridge the gap even closer we will never get rid of M$. OSX and Linux are great programs but way to limited for off-the-shelf apps. 3) ogl2 vs. dx10. has any one actualy LOOKED at the last relese of ogl? if you had you would realize that its prity well abandond save for a small few who worship the engine. however if you look at the new SDK's both by M$ and others for DX9 (and DX10 once its released). you would realize that a DX application is 5x to 10x easyer to program hence why over 80% of the games on the market use DX insted of OGL. 4) Do i like the idea that M$ is making Vista internet dependant to thier system? uhm hell no. but i understand why. in less then 24 hours i can download a pirated copy of XP install it on 100 computers and modify the system and rob M$ of over 20k. this may not sound like a big deal. which in fact its not however it is still illegal in any nation. 5) BTW just so you dumb-junkies know by us federal law M$ can NOT take ANY information that is NOT RELATED to the os WITH OUT your personal consent. oh and for that DJ who thinks "i bought it so i gave consent" thats not it. just because you buy something and install it dont mean you give your personal data to M$. also you can "turn that feture off" yes you hear me it can be disabled. Why? because the federal government REQURED it. so next time you want to bash an OS or any other program. make sure you do read EVERYTHING on the topic. because you may not know the answer but someone else in this world does. oh on a different note since i am not exactly enthoused about having to spend 10 days of my life FIXING Vista. how hard is WINE to setup and install?
SSgt Sniper Gallente Dreamscape Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.03 23:40:00 - [242] Originally by: Ashaz Originally by: Gariuys Everybody will upgrade to Vista and DX10 eventually, CCP just gives a good reason to do so. As some wise man said before. Just bechause X was released after Y doesn't mean it's an uppgrade. Sure DX10 is probably better, but Vista? hopefully by then there will be some alternative to that abomination. /me thinks back to Windows ME..... ------- Originally by: Joshua Foiritain These days the biggest/most active threat in Fountain is the Sparta Alliance.
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.06.17 03:17:00 - [243] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius you guys do know how fast ccp is moving with such things right? it is going to be a loooonnnnggggg time. By the time they are done with that content everyone who is running pc will already be on vista... The point is not about people who don't have Vista, but those who don't want to voluntarily give over full control of their computer to an abusive monopoly that will tell them what programs they can and can't run, what drivers they can and can't use, and what videos they can and can't play. Well then dont... your not being forced to! Apparently CCP disagrees. They want to lock us out of a considerable new portion of the game just because we choose to keep control of our own computers. Of course I could install Linux and use WINE to play EVE, which would be pretty ironic considering the whole point of this is to lock us into Microsoft products I dont think we really know what DX10 is capable of. We havent seen it in action. Im thinking it must be pretty damn good if CCP is going to buy in at such a level.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.06.17 04:52:00 - [244] Vista is the best thing that could have happened for Linux.
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.17 05:38:00 - [245] Originally by: Fenlaw Direct X 10 won't be released on Windows XP because MS WANTS YOUR MONEY. I fixed it for you.
Keira Fordring Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.17 06:08:00 - [246] Though at the moment I'm not considering upgrading to Vista right now, eventually everyone with a PC running Windows will have to either upgrade or simply fall behind. Microsoft has a support lifecycle for all their products. When this support runs out, eventually the ability to use Windows Update ends. They did this recently with Windows 2000. Soon after Windows XP SP2 came out, Microsoft pulled the plug on Windows Update support for Windows 2000. By the time Eve gets around to using their DirectX 10 engine, the support for Windows XP will have ended (or be close to ending) and you will need to "upgrade" to Vista in order to maintain as "secure" an OS as you can. Details on product support lifecycles for XP here: http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&C2=1173&x=16&y=9 Quote: Windows XP Service Pack 2 General Availability Date: 9/17/2004 Mainstream Support Retired: See note Extended Support Retired: See Note Note: Support ends either 12 months after the next service pack releases or at the end of the product's support lifecycle, whichever comes first. Visit the Lifecycle page to find the support timelines for your particular product. You can choose a different Microsoft product for support lifecycle information here: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=lifecycle
Zeko Rena Caldari Tangent Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.17 06:22:00 - [247] Ha, so eventually if we dont upgrade to vista and get dx10 we will be playing the demo version of EVE lol, i guess everyone wants to get on the dx10 wagon cause its the "in thing" -------------------------- Har Har, sig is finnaly mod proof.
Vactet Immortalis Silens FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.17 08:17:00 - [248] Gah, read the first page, ignored the others. Originally by: Maraude Fury Edited by: Maraude Fury on 15/03/2007 12:54:30 Bunch of Junk Spoken from the Rear End You never get a copy of the newest OS as soon as it comes out...EVA! Why? ALL..os's have bugs when they first come out, its expected and understood. Let those bugs get worked out..then buy it. Upgrading to Vista=Surrendering control of computer. Cost..money...nah. Heck my copies of XP arent close to valid or legit. Screw MicroShaft As for new games for Vista ONLY? You must have a jar of pickles in your family tree. Most people are still on XP and will be for a while, deal with it. Originally by: Banana Torres I support the move to Windows Vista and DX10. Vista is by far and away the best OS in the world just now. It makes OS X and linux look like they belong in the last millenium. DX10 is awesome. I can't wait for real software to support it. Banana kisses her 8800s. AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH. Ok one of my corpmates does Technical Support for a company (no not microshaft). I cant tell you how many times he comes home, hops on TS, and starts ranting and raving about vista. Something like 80% of his calls now are about Vista. Or rather..turn out to be Vista related. Best? Yeh and im Grand Supreme Pubar of the world. 8800's..aww so cute. Personally i prefer my quad 7900's stacked in two 7950's, all piped together..soo sweet. And wtf is a banana kiss? I can only think of one..ew. Moving on. Originally by: Trapted Stop bashing vista for god sake, Whos actually used a retail copy? and not some RC? While i wouldn't recommend anyone to upgrade to vista just for the sake of it, its not as bad as people are making it out to be. Bull. Ive used vista...i used put it on my laptop, not my main box. Its one of those nice tablet laptops. Want to know where it is now? In a million peices after I straped 20lbs of Pyrodex to it. Why? Cause Vista is evil and wouldnt let me successfully remove it and reinstall XP on that system. So hmm...making a perfectly good laptop totally useless..yeh..."not as bad". You make me want to headbutt babies so they dont grow up to spout such junk. Originally by: hired goon Some of us are technically minded enough to want to build and understand our own computers; that's why we bought a PC and not an Xcube Consolestation 4. We, the Builders of Computers, do not wish to be told what we can and can't do with the computer we bought unless Microsoft pay us for the privellege. Right on. Yeh im sorry..i built my own machine, i didnt go to OfficeMax and buy HP's flavor of the moment that wont last you longer than a year. My computer..my control..MicroShaft can get bent. And lets be honest...its not that we have to pay MS to use something, its that we gotta go get the knee pads on and kneel infront of oh Billy Gates. Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Trapted Stop bashing vista for god sake Vista is only a decent OS if you ignore the fact that installing it basically surrenders control of your computer to Microsoft. I prefer to own my own box, thank you. I cant believe..im going to say this... But..holy god i actually agree with DS..for once. Is it getting cold? Vista=Hijack of your computer=BAD. There ..for those that still were confused by DS's rather simply put explanation of why Vista belongs coming out of a cow's rear, I made it simpler.. VISTA=BAD Mkay? Its been a few months since i toasted that laptop so i cant remember all the things vista WONT let YOU (The owner of the machine) do. Lets see..what do i have on here that would cause vista a heart attack.. Oh..hmm..Adobe Photoshop CS2, Image Ready, Animator...all ***ed versions, didnt pay a cent. About 70GB of *ed games..hmm. About another 30GB of music..yep..all P2P DLed without paying..oh noes. Oh heck..theres alot of stuff on here that i just dont care to pay for and have *ed. Vista..takes away your freedom...PERIOD. Vista lovers can rot! Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984. Originally by:** CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.

Rauth Kivaro Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.06.17 08:30:00 - [249] Thread was 3 months beaten to death and buried, locking for necro. click forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website



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