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J3ST3R
Gallente
Dark Light Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:20:00 -
[361]
 Originally by: Dwai Attic
Originally by: J3ST3R
Success rates with ships are always going to be low,
As for invention success rates I would say I'm around 75-85% for modules and I'm generally doing stuff I have the skills very high in.
Meta item? Decryptor?
Adding an item and using a decrypter can increse the chance of invention success. So yes I'm using both.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.08 21:21:00 -
[362]
Skill level (Encyption/DC1/DC2): 4/3/3
Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): data
Number of datacores from one group: 2
Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): none used
Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): 0
Attempts: 180
Successes: 79
Definitely pointing to meta level starting at 100% modifier and working up, not 80%.
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Alison McCarty
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Posted - 2007.10.09 23:55:00 -
[363]
I just did 10 inventions and had one success. It seems to be the standard lately. I was creating the Vagabond bpc and used a stabber as the item and operation handbook as the decryptor. My skills are 5/5/5 and I have that broken GI-2 implant.
Is it me or does it feel like invention is a way for the devs to throttle the markets? Ie, if they are being overwhelmed with tech 2 items and the price goes down, they can decrease the multiplier for success on certain items and make them a bit more scarce, thus the price will rebound.
So when is the GI-2 supposed to be fixed? That cost a lot of lp and cash . . . I almost feel as if my success rate with invention was a lot better when I had 4/4/4. Anyone else?
Ali
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.10 01:41:00 -
[364]
You just need to do careful research and figure out which items are profitable to invent. Some are very profitable, some not so much.
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Jenny Wimbishi
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Posted - 2007.10.10 04:56:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Jenny Wimbishi on 10/10/2007 05:00:59
Originally by: Alison McCarty
I almost feel as if my success rate with invention was a lot better when I had 4/4/4. Anyone else?
Ali
The difference between 5/5/5 and 4/4/4 is a little less than 1%.
Using the calculator included with eveMEEP, here are the percentages for module/ship invention by skill level assuming the following layout encryp/sci/sci.
1/1/1 = 40.805% / 20.402%
2/2/2 = 41.620% / 20.810%
3/3/3 = 42.445% / 21.222%
4/4/4 = 43.280% / 21.640%
5/5/5 = 44.126% / 22.063%
Maxed out skills gives you less than a 5% increase in your chances of a successful invention job using modules than a char with only the absolute minimum skills. Less than 2% with ship invention. So, you ask, WTF bother training the skills even to 4/4/4, much less maxed out.
Decryptors (with 5/5/5):
+9 run = 16.650 / 8.825
+4 run = 57.364 / 28.682
+2 run = 35.301 / 17.269
+1 run = 48.538 / 24.269
So, as you can see, the +1 & +4 run decryptors offer a lot more to the invention success chances than even maxed out skills. The +2 decryptor (+10%) alone gives someone with 1/1/1 better chances than 5/5/5 not using it. The +4 run best available decryptor modifier outstrips skill by a huge margin... so, as you can see, COSMOS farmers and good explorers are guranteed a lot better invention opportunities.
Meta Level (no decryptors)
module with 5/5/5 skills:
1 = 47.215
2 = 50.303
3 = 53.392
4 = 56.481
module with 1/1/1 skills:
1 = 43.661
2 = 46.517
3 = 49.374
4 = 52.230
Again, we can see that skill has amazingly little to do with invention success, meaning that fresh outta the academy research nuubs can invent about 90% as well as you 5/5/5 max skilled scientists. A 1/1/1 nuub with a meta level 1 item can invent better than a 5/5/5 maxed skilled scientist without one.
When it comes to invention, CCP has seen to it that skills have little overall value when it comes to success. It's who has access to the decryptors & meta items, not the training time.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.10.10 05:39:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Alison McCarty
Is it me or does it feel like invention is a way for the devs to throttle the markets? Ie, if they are being overwhelmed with tech 2 items and the price goes down, they can decrease the multiplier for success on certain items and make them a bit more scarce, thus the price will rebound.
The devs has stated over and oveur again that they don't do that. But I guess we can only take their word for it.
However look at it this way. If prices drop too much inventors will just move onto other items. Just look at how the Mackinaw has finally started to drop in price. That only happened after the Hulk stabilized around 100-130m.
The market forces will regulate this.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Elisa Day
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.10 14:09:00 -
[367]
Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): 5/5/5
Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Data
Number of datacores from one group: 2
Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): 0.4x
Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): none used
Attempts: 1893
Successes: 400
21.13% success rate.
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General Paul
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:27:00 -
[368]
If T1 Ships have a meta level of zero does that make it worthelss to add a T1 ship when inventing T2 ships?
I recently did 3 runs of ferox and came out with a 4 run vulture bpo.. the bigegst cost in that was 3 ferox as ~T1 meta ogjects :(
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General Paul
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:41:00 -
[369]
''Items that only have a few versions, like shield hardeners still start their meta level at one and count up to the highest item. Ships have only one version so they always have a meta level of one. But one is better than zero. ''
Thats out of the invention guide :( so I payed 20 mill per job for very little back hehe.. Think I'll not bother next time.
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Jenny Wimbishi
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:48:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Aykido
Ok How come ammo invention only yields 1 run.
Missiles turn out 10 run. In my esperience, however, is that your chances are the same as ship invention (base 20%). So, considering the cost of datacores and the idiotically low percentages, ammo invention is very, very, very broken.
Especially gonsidering that 100 BPOs were seeded as opposed to 20 for ships & modules. I do not know the quantity of drone BPOs seeded.
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Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.10 22:47:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Jenny Wimbishi
[lots of numbers]
Where are you getting those from? Is the source reliable or are they made up, because that's the first time I see chances written down with such accuracy.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:54:00 -
[372]
Meta level 4 items seem to have a very pronounced effect:
Runs: 18
Successes: 17
Failures: 1
Decryptor: none
Meta-level: 4
Datacore multiplier: 2
Skills: 3/4/3 (Encr/sci/sci)
If this was the formula used to determine the outcome,
Quote:
skill(1+((1%*level)*(1+(0.5%*level))*(1+(0.5%*level))) * decryptor * base item (1+5%*meta)
then there was only a 1 in 8500 chance of this streak occurring.
However, if the meta level bonus was 10% instead of 5% (resulting in a maximum possible chance of 66.19% before decryptors, so this doesn't cause any anomalies when combined with the effects of the 1.3x decryptor) then the chance of such a streak would have been 1 in 183; over 40 times more likely to have happened.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Icarus Starkiller
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:03:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Corporati Capitalis
Originally by: Jenny Wimbishi
[lots of numbers]
Where are you getting those from? Is the source reliable or are they made up, because that's the first time I see chances written down with such accuracy.
I believe she stated that she was using eveMeep (www.evemeep.com) - I use it myself, a wonderful product it is. Her accuracy model is based off of what algorithms are in the program itself, so she could be wildly wrong... but not in my experience.
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Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
Shemyaza
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Posted - 2007.11.23 11:30:00 -
[374]
Minmatar enctyption method LvL 5
Minmatar Starship Engineering Lvl 5
Hacking LvL 5
Frigate Construction Lvl5
Cruiser Construction LvL5
All other science skills at LvL 4
I Tried installing a Rifter, Thrasher and a Bellicose.
5 run bpc of each with a decryptor and the relevent amount of datacores and a T1 version of each ship. The Bellicose refused to install with the message "a skill or item is missing" although the thrasher and rifter installed. Another 24 hours and i will post how i got on with the rifter and thrasher.
Can anyone Tell me why the bellicose cruiser failed to install?
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Shemyaza
Gallente
Daoine Sidhe
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Posted - 2007.11.26 17:28:00 -
[375]
Edited by: Shemyaza on 26/11/2007 17:29:31
Edited by: Shemyaza on 26/11/2007 17:29:05
Well the T2 attempt the at the rifter failed but the thasher produced a 1 run sabre bpc and the bellicose produced a 1 run rapier bpc.
I forgot to mention that the reason the bellicos refused to start at first was because im a total newb and forgot to repackage it. 
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Idxx
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Posted - 2007.11.26 17:49:00 -
[376]
I thought ships were pointless for added items in invention because their meta level was 0. Has this changed? Sorry for not reading the previous 370 some odd posts.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.11.26 18:30:00 -
[377]
No, most people are just noobs and don't read the material provided for them. That's why invention will always be profitable (assuming you're doing the right items). So many people don't read the basic info and increase their invention costs substantially.
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Elisa Day
Koshaku
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.06 14:40:00 -
[378]
Including my previous 5/5/5 results, invention results for modules and the high runs decryptor pre-trinity comes out at:
Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): 5/5/5
Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Data
Number of datacores from one group: 2
Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): 0.4x
Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): none used
Attempts: 3650
Successes: 762
20.88% success rate.
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Hehulk
Black Sea Industries
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.06 22:25:00 -
[379]
Skill level (Encryption/DC1/DC2): 4/3/3
Interface (Ship/Tuner/Data): Data
Number of datacores from one group: 2
Decryptor (0.4x/0.8x/1.0x/1.1x/1.3x): None
Item meta level (0/1/2/3/4): None
Attempts: 100
Successes: 44
Success Rate: 44%
More comming in 5 days
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It's great being minmatar, ain't it |
bigsteve
Minmatar
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.12.07 07:02:00 -
[380]
Any one know if Invention of jump freighter is do-able of Carrier BPO's has been implemented?????
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Telonia Reis
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Posted - 2007.12.07 16:22:00 -
[381]
Hello, just figured I would throw out some numbers for the greater good on my BS invention jobs that just finished up.
Skills: 5/5/5
Decryptor: Best Chance
Type: Black Ops BS
BPC: Max Run
# of Runs: 24
13 successes out of 24, 5 runs each
Skills: 5/5/5
Decryptor: Best Chance
Type: Marauder
BPC: Max Run
# of Runs: 4
3 successes out of 4, 5 runs each
Hope this helps anyone in the continued search for a formulae.
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.12.07 16:35:00 -
[382]
Just adding in here that decryptors have received some buffs/general love. Additionally, ships in general have better chances of success than pre-patch.
So most of the thread is now erroneous. 
-----------------------------------------------
Adm Vladimir Tinakin
CFO
Hadean Drive Yards |
Salvis Tallan
Gallente
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 16:56:00 -
[383]
With my equation of:
BaseChance * (1+ DecrypterSkill*0.01) * (1+ DatacoreSkill*0.005) * (1+ DatacoreSkill*0.005) * (1 + Metalevel*MetaModifier ) * DecryptorBonus
I get a maximum success rate of:
40% for Battleships
50% for cruisers
60% for frigates
------
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Baniya Bhai
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:22:00 -
[384]
Skills: 5/5/4
Decryptor: Circular Logic
Type: Devoter
BPC (Input) : 1 Run
# of Runs: 1
1 successes out of 7
I thought I would get a 9 run BPC at least.
Anybody know more about this?
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DirtyNoGood
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:09:00 -
[385]
Don't you get the same thing with salvaging? And is there a 100% chance eventually with skills and rigs that you can salvage a wreck?
As far as the making of equipment,ships etc. this may work as well. And if this is done how will it effect the game's economy?
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Baniya Bhai
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:46:00 -
[386]
Anybody know more about the why of it Below??? Please post...
Skills: 5/5/4
Decryptor: Circular Logic
Type: Devoter
BPC (Input) : 1 Run
# of Runs: 1
1 successes out of 7
I thought I would get a 9 run BPC at least.
Anybody know more about this?
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Artmedis Valben
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:22:00 -
[387]
your 1 run must be a bug If you actually used the Circular logic for the job.
Is the BPC ME -6 / PE -3 (bug report it)
or is it ME -1 / PE -1 (you accidentally used wrong decryptor)
or is it ME -4 / PE -4 (you accidentally used NO decryptor)
good luck with petioning it if its the first, otherwise tough luck.
Selling: PERFECT PRINTS
New ships |
MicanG
Dark Reality
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Posted - 2007.12.09 09:00:00 -
[388]
Edited by: MicanG on 09/12/2007 09:01:06
I have read alot on Invention, but i'm a bit lost now 
I want to do 20x BS invention job.
10x Black OPS, and 10x Marauder or 20x marauder.
I want to use a +9 Decryptor, and all BPC are 1 run each.
To my understanding, I have between 5 and 10% chance of succes to get a 9 run t2 BPC.
Am I right here, or totaly wrong.
It's a big gamble for me, So I like to be sure on the odds tbh
My skills are all @ LVL.4
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Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Space Exploration and Logistic Services
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Posted - 2007.12.09 09:10:00 -
[389]
Originally by: MicanG
Edited by: MicanG on 09/12/2007 09:01:06
I have read alot on Invention, but i'm a bit lost now
I want to do 20x BS invention job.
10x Black OPS, and 10x Marauder or 20x marauder.
I want to use a +9 Decryptor, and all BPC are 1 run each.
To my understanding, I have between 5 and 10% chance of succes to get a 9 run t2 BPC.
Am I right here, or totaly wrong.
It's a big gamble for me, So I like to be sure on the odds tbh
My skills are all @ LVL.4
I 'bolded' where I think your problem is....
You only get the Decryptor extra runs with MAX run BPCs
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MicanG
Dark Reality
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Posted - 2007.12.09 09:57:00 -
[390]
I was following this piece of info, It might be outdated tho,
If it's a 1run bpc with a +4 decryptor you get 4 runs
if it's max run bpc with a +4 decryptor you get 5 runs
if it's a 1run bpc with a +9 decryptor yhou get 9 runs
if it's max run bpc with a +9 decryptor you get 10 runs
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