Originally by: Umbriele

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My last invention experience, after 1.4 patch:

10x invention jobs of cap rec II
all skills lvl4
formation layout decryptor
eutetic cap rec I
BPC ME140 PE10 300 runs

results: 8 successfull, 2 failed, 1 was 19 runs, 1 was 11 runs, the others all 10 runs.

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Quote:

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Instead of using the Invention skill, you have to use skills related to the datacores and interface needed for your invention process.


So, if you wanted to invent a Vagabond BPC using a Stabber BPC, you see that required datacores are:
ôDatacore - Minmatar Starship Engineeringö
ôDatacore û Mechanical Engineeringö
And the following Interface:
ôCryptic Ship Data Interfaceö

To get the best chance of a positive result you would have to have the following skills at level 5:

ôMinmatar Starship Engineeringö
ôMechanical Engineeringö
ôMinmatar Encryption Methodsö

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 24/03/2007 04:21:41
While it is possible that the skills have unique modifiers, given the range of modules and ships for invention it is more likely that there is a "primary" and a "secondary" skill for each invention job and the modifier is based on that. This is, of course, assuming that the skills aren't equally "weighted" or that they aren't taken on the same level of the encryptions skill (as in my original post).


As for my second round of 6 "naked" hulk invention attempts at 4/3/3....

0 for 6.
This makes 0 for 11. Ouch.

Another 6 naked invention types put in for testing...

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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BTW, for those interested, I'm using a ME/PE 0 BPC to run these, and the successes were me/pe -4 each. So adjust that with whatever decryptor you want to use.

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Originally by: sahtila

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Why you dont use at least some cheap decryptor? There could be big negative effect for not using any decryptor. Same with base item.

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Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky

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Originally by: Umbriele

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My last invention experience, after 1.4 patch:

10x invention jobs of cap rec II
all skills lvl4
formation layout decryptor
eutetic cap rec I
BPC ME140 PE10 300 runs

results: 8 successfull, 2 failed, 1 was 19 runs, 1 was 11 runs, the others all 10 runs.

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If you used the same decryptor for all 10 jobs the number of runs look really odd to me. I would say you used a Circular Logic for the 19 run, a Classic Doctrine for the 11 run and Formation Layouts on the rest. If not then this is the very first sign of random number of runs. Can you please provide the ME / PE for the 11 and 19 run BPCs?

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Originally by: Pizi

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some lucky guy linked an 8 run hulk BPC in the BP channel
and he said he did it with an 1 run + stolen formula

dunno how this is possible, maybe their is a random factor

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Originally by: Qual

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Edited by: Qual on 26/03/2007 12:55:57
Ok, just a but of info for the wolfs...

I've found out the following:

There are "base stats" for inveted bpc's. THey are ME -4, PE -4. The decryptor used will modify these base stats. The numbers on the bpc going in to the job doesnt do anything. So no need to go for high, ME/PE prints.

(More here)

Runs have a base to. 1 for ships/rigs and 10 for modules. This number IS modified. You get a base number of runs equal to this formula:

runs = round.down((bpc runs/max runs of bpc type)*base runs) + datacore bonus

So for ships and tuners only max runs gives you a base of 1. Anything lower will be rounded to 0. Fortunately decryptors will add the runs to 0 and give a print anyways, but invention with no decryptors on anything lower than max run will fail by default. (That should explain the failure of the Covetor tests earlier in this thread...)

For modules the gains for max runs are larger, obviously. But in short, if you want many runs, put in max run bpc's.

EDIT: Fixed formula

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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However, I've gotten 4 successes on 1-run covetor bpcs (max run is 10), resulting in 1-run hulk bpcs. So the job success is not related to the number of runs--if it succeeds, you get 1 run guaranteed. As for the impact of a max run, you may be correct in that it has no appreciable impact...I have a slave...er, alt...whipping up some max runs while I do different testing on SiSi. One would hope that a max run ship BPC nets you at least one additional run, but if you're right then we'll all be better off using single runs for ship invention.

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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When you say 2nd best, you mean Test Reports?

And yes, so far all my testing has not used any decryptors except for my initial "it works!" hulk invention testing.

I just finished the "naked" testing with no decryptors and no covetor...I'm now testing with a covetor but still no decryptor to get a feel for how much the cov helps.

And since it seems to escape a few people, yes this is all on singularity, the test server, where everything is 100 isk.

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Originally by: Qual

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Edited by: Qual on 26/03/2007 12:55:57
Ok, just a but of info for the wolfs...

I've found out the following:

There are "base stats" for inveted bpc's. THey are ME -4, PE -4. The decryptor used will modify these base stats. The numbers on the bpc going in to the job doesnt do anything. So no need to go for high, ME/PE prints.

(More here)

Runs have a base to. 1 for ships/rigs and 10 for modules. This number IS modified. You get a base number of runs equal to this formula:

runs = round.down((bpc runs/max runs of bpc type)*base runs) + datacore bonus

So for ships and tuners only max runs gives you a base of 1. Anything lower will be rounded to 0. Fortunately decryptors will add the runs to 0 and give a print anyways, but invention with no decryptors on anything lower than max run will fail by default. (That should explain the failure of the Covetor tests earlier in this thread...)

For modules the gains for max runs are larger, obviously. But in short, if you want many runs, put in max run bpc's.

EDIT: Fixed formula

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I agree with the "base stats" for ME/PE--they jive with my findings on invention with the me/pe 0 covetor BPCs.

However, I've gotten 4 successes on 1-run covetor bpcs (max run is 10), resulting in 1-run hulk bpcs. So the job success is not related to the number of runs--if it succeeds, you get 1 run guaranteed. As for the impact of a max run, you may be correct in that it has no appreciable impact...I have a slave...er, alt...whipping up some max runs while I do different testing on SiSi. One would hope that a max run ship BPC nets you at least one additional run, but if you're right then we'll all be better off using single runs for ship invention.

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Originally by: N'kano Hunyeq

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Edited by: N''kano Hunyeq on 26/03/2007 19:55:10

Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Originally by: Qual

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Edited by: Qual on 26/03/2007 12:55:57
Ok, just a but of info for the wolfs...

I've found out the following:

There are "base stats" for inveted bpc's. THey are ME -4, PE -4. The decryptor used will modify these base stats. The numbers on the bpc going in to the job doesnt do anything. So no need to go for high, ME/PE prints.

(More here)

Runs have a base to. 1 for ships/rigs and 10 for modules. This number IS modified. You get a base number of runs equal to this formula:

runs = round.down((bpc runs/max runs of bpc type)*base runs) + datacore bonus

So for ships and tuners only max runs gives you a base of 1. Anything lower will be rounded to 0. Fortunately decryptors will add the runs to 0 and give a print anyways, but invention with no decryptors on anything lower than max run will fail by default. (That should explain the failure of the Covetor tests earlier in this thread...)

For modules the gains for max runs are larger, obviously. But in short, if you want many runs, put in max run bpc's.

EDIT: Fixed formula

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I agree with the "base stats" for ME/PE--they jive with my findings on invention with the me/pe 0 covetor BPCs.

However, I've gotten 4 successes on 1-run covetor bpcs (max run is 10), resulting in 1-run hulk bpcs. So the job success is not related to the number of runs--if it succeeds, you get 1 run guaranteed. As for the impact of a max run, you may be correct in that it has no appreciable impact...I have a slave...er, alt...whipping up some max runs while I do different testing on SiSi. One would hope that a max run ship BPC nets you at least one additional run, but if you're right then we'll all be better off using single runs for ship invention.

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I've tested using 10 runs and 5 runs, i will tell you i get more runs of the hulk bpc when using max runs and i will only be using max runs from now on. That extra run or so you get from using a 10 run is a lot of extra isk when you are talking about Hulks.

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Originally by: ShadowRat

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Edited by: ShadowRat on 27/03/2007 08:37:30
Lets start with multi formula:

succes rate= 1* (1+item in use) * (1+ enc.lev*0.02) * (1+ related science I.lev*0.02)* (1+ related science II.lev*0.02)* decryptor_mod

Multiply is resonable, but you can use 'add' too and results is not much diferent (form 67% to 85% at best config)

bpc:round_down(base_runs/30)+decryptor_mod+ little_lottery(after 1.4 patch)
me:-4+round_down(oryginal_me/30)+decryptor_mod
pe:-4+round_down(oryginal_pe/30)+decryptor_mod

If bpc runs after formula is 0 ... invention fail too, so this my be 'lost thing' that ppl dont consider in calculation.

Example:
Encryption lev = 4 -> 1.08 modifier
science I = 4 -> 1.08 modifier
science II = 4 -> 1.08 modifier
best descryptor =1.3
item in use = 0.07 (best!?!) -> 1.07 modifier

That give you around 75% of succes.
When you dont use items only skils .. succes rate is around 25%

Seams resonable for me... any commnts so far?
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Have a nice day

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