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Renturu Tribal Spirit Tribal Unity Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.12.22 11:20:00 - [61] - Quote If you need to sell something to a corp mate or a bud... In hangar trade for isk. no tax or brokerage fee there and it will knock down your "debt."
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2137	Posted - 2011.12.22 11:31:00 - [62] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: A treatment that arbitarily further punishes some but not others, not a great justice system. GÇªexcept that it's not arbitrary. The only way not to go into negative wallet is to not spend the ISK, at which point there was no point in buying it to begin with. It GÇ£furtherGÇ¥ punishes people who spend ISK they have no right to haveGÇª except that there is no GÇ£furtherGÇ¥ about it: negative wallet is what happens to everyone who does that. Everyone gets the same treatment. Again: you choose to go into negative wallet. You do this after you choose to break the rules. There is nothing random or arbitrary about any of it unless you have a complete lack of control over your own actions. Oh, and if you can't see the difference between trading PLEX and giving real money to a third party to illegitimately gain access to stuff owned by CCP, then you need to stop for a bit, sit down, and actually think. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars IMPERIAL LEGI0N 42	Posted - 2011.12.22 11:32:00 - [63] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: J'Poll wrote: Professor Alphane wrote: J'Poll wrote: 1.) Buy a GTC or PLEX with RL money (eighter use CCP, Eve-codes[dot]com or Shatteredcrystal[dot]com) 2.) Sell the PLEX (or 2 PLEX if you used GTC) on the Timecode Bazaar. 3.) Repeat if you are still in debt. On the neg. wallet: Good job CCP. I'm totally against petitioning and then get that deuce his wallet back to 0 for 1 reason only. The OP should have used the proper way to make ISK if he wanted more (buying GTC / PLEX from official websites). By using RMT he knew he was violating the EULA and he took the risk and lost. So no need to help him out, it was all his own choice and he should live with the consequences. Helping him out would be like giving a bank robber the money he stole back after he served his jail time. Punishments are there for a reason, to let people know they did the wrong thing and to make sure they will NEVER do that again. I fail to understand this post Part 1 - Buy some isk it'll sort your problem out Part 2 - You bought isk ! your scum of the earth and deserve everything you get. The first 3 points are a way to get the OP out of his negative wallet using the a legit source of ISK by using RL money Oh I understood I just found it ironic that you then went on to rant about how people who buy isk using RL money should be punished. I'm not against people who use RL money to buy ISK. I'm against people who use the RMT part of it that isn't allowed by the EULA and then come to the forums to whine about them being punished about something they did and knew it was against the rules you accepted. If you want to use RL money as a source of ISK just do it through the proper channels that CCP has said are legit. J'Poll Recruiter - Imperial Legi0n As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch
malaire 98	Posted - 2011.12.22 11:33:00 - [64] - Quote Renturu wrote: If you need to sell something to a corp mate or a bud... In hangar trade for isk. no tax or brokerage fee there and it will knock down your "debt." That might work - or might not. I have helped few players in this situation by buying their PLEX via station trade. Two times it has worked, once it didn't work - we got message about not being able to do station trades with negative wallet. (That was several months ago and might've just been a bug.) Of course if you find someone who trusts you, he can give you ISK first and then you can give PLEX or whatever to him.
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 11:57:00 - [65] - Quote Tippia wrote: Professor Alphane wrote: A treatment that arbitarily further punishes some but not others, not a great justice system. GÇªexcept that it's not arbitrary. The only way not to go into negative wallet is to not spend the ISK, at which point there was no point in buying it to begin with. It GÇ£furtherGÇ¥ punishes people who spend ISK they have no right to haveGÇª except that there is no GÇ£furtherGÇ¥ about it: negative wallet is what happens to everyone who does that. Everyone gets the same treatment. Again: you choose to go into negative wallet. You do this after you choose to break the rules. There is nothing random or arbitrary about any of it unless you have a complete lack of control over your own actions. Oh, and if you can't see the difference between trading PLEX and giving real money to a third party to illegitimately gain access to stuff owned by CCP, then you need to stop for a bit, sit down, and actually think. No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not, as I said there is a lot of factors involved, how much you had to start with, how much you earn, how much you can make of the isk you bought, when you get caught. It's not just Spend bought isk = automatic negative wallet. And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access' it's not like CCP got hacked and the isk suddenly appeared, someone somewhere made that isk ingame. Therefore CCP where reinbursed in the usual way for it. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
FluffyDice StarFckers Inc. The Jagged Alliance 48	Posted - 2011.12.22 12:02:00 - [66] - Quote I think that the OP should RMT more isk to get out of the hole. Only good things can come from this.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2137	Posted - 2011.12.22 12:28:00 - [67] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not Yes it does. If you had the ISK to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy, then 1) you didn't need to RMT, and 2) you can still buy it once the illegitimate ISK is removed. In order to get into negative wallet, you would have had to have less legit ISK available than the amount you spent (hence why you RMTed) and then you would have had to spend that illicit ISK. If you didn't you wouldn't arrive at a negative wallet. Oh, and both those steps are your choices, so again, you decide to go into negative wallet. It is about as far from arbitrary as it can ever get. Quote: And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access' You bought something that wasn't yours from someone who didn't own it either. You illegitimately gained access to ISK that you shouldn't have. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars IMPERIAL LEGI0N 42	Posted - 2011.12.22 12:35:00 - [68] - Quote Tippia wrote: Professor Alphane wrote: No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not Yes it does. If you had the ISK to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy, then 1) you didn't need to RMT, and 2) you can still buy it once the illegitimate ISK is removed. In order to get into negative wallet, you would have had to have less legit ISK available than the amount you spent (hence why you RMTed) and then you would have had to spend that illicit ISK. If you didn't you wouldn't arrive at a negative wallet. Oh, and both those steps are your choices, so again, you decide to go into negative wallet. It is about as far from arbitrary as it can ever get. Quote: And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access' You bought something that wasn't yours from someone who didn't own it either. You illegitimately gained access to ISK that you shouldn't have. +1 The OP clearly used RMT to buy something he didn't have the funds for. So buy buying those ISK he bought something he shouldn't have owned in the first part. If people get ISK from RMT and then have it removed by CCP and still have a positive wallet, why would they used RMT then. This clearly means they have the means to make ISK the proper way. Also if you look at the OP's profile, she is just 5months old. So like many many pilots (including myself when I started) she wanted to fly a ship which is way to expensive for her at this time. Again, I'm not against using real money to fund your ships if you can afford it. I'm against stupid (sorry if people feel offended) people who CHOOSE to disobey the rules and buy ISK from non legit third parties and then whine when CCP punish you as they have stated in the rules that you should have read before you accepted them. People who don't like that shouldn't play EVE in the first time, it's a harsh world where your actions have consequences and you should only fly stuff you can actually afford to buy legit. J'Poll Recruiter - Imperial Legi0n As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 13:10:00 - [69] - Quote Let me try give you an example then You and me buy 1 bill isk You spend 500 mil on shiney ship and manage to make 250 M missioning before your caught. 750-1000= -250 in the negative + 1 shiney ship you can't sell. Now I take my billion isk, invest it on the market and make 250M. 1250-1000 = 250 M left in my wallet So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself. Random and arbitary. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 13:14:00 - [70] - Quote Meanwhile back on topic. OP you still haven't made it entirely clear what you spent 2 billion on and if you have any assests to show for it. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Lord Ryan True Xero 140	Posted - 2011.12.22 13:43:00 - [71] - Quote What time zone do you play in? -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2138	Posted - 2011.12.22 13:48:00 - [72] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself. Random and arbitary. GÇªexcept that you still haven't spent that illegit ISK, and therefore isn't in the red, and except that you didn't need that ISK to begin with in order to play the market, oh, and except that biomassing isn't even remotely necessary for the other character. So no, it is neither random nor arbitrary: the same thing happens to both people and their choices, not random chance, decides what will happen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 30	Posted - 2011.12.22 14:02:00 - [73] - Quote Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank. Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 107	Posted - 2011.12.22 14:11:00 - [74] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank. Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right. It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal.
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 30	Posted - 2011.12.22 14:14:00 - [75] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: Professor Alphane wrote: Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank. Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right. It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal. The applied 'punishment' is equal the effects it has in diffrent cases isn't. It's 'Strange and unusual' punishment is some cases , negative isk, or you fly free (if you mange to break even). YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Slade Trillgon T.R.I.A.D 78	Posted - 2011.12.22 14:21:00 - [76] - Quote I will also add to this thread that one should not be allowed to biomass a pilot with a negative isk balance to get around this issue Slade
Junglistbeast Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 4	Posted - 2011.12.22 15:26:00 - [77] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: Corina Jarr wrote: Professor Alphane wrote: Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank. Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right. It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal. The applied 'punishment' is equal the effects it has in diffrent cases isn't. It's 'Strange and unusual' punishment is some cases , negative isk, or you fly free (if you mange to break even). I'm going to offer you a medal for pointing out the blindingly obvious! If the missioning player pulled his finger out and made more he also would have had a positive balance! I think you should maybe study trading skills before you talk about how much isk you need to make buy/sell orders up!
Roscada We love Egg 6	Posted - 2011.12.22 15:55:00 - [78] - Quote Serene Obsolete wrote: I have a hulk (barely 200mil) and my account is now active (however useless) for the next 5 months. You bought isk to buy PLEX? The **** is wrong with you?
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 598	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:49:00 - [79] - Quote well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer. might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits. Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical. ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months. that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them. The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Chevy Hakoke Shockwave Innovations Stellar Economy Experts 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:56:00 - [80] - Quote Morganta wrote: well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer. might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits. Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical. ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months. that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them. The actions the player took is also unethical... people were warned when they set up their eve accounts that EULA says NO RMT, the player then RMT isk... so now the player is facing the punishment Its like robbing a store, then getting arrested and jail, THEN saying "WTF why am I in jail"
Lord Ryan True Xero 140	Posted - 2011.12.22 19:38:00 - [81] - Quote Chevy Hakoke wrote: Morganta wrote: well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer. might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits. Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical. ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months. that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them. The actions the player took is also unethical... people were warned when they set up their eve accounts that EULA says NO RMT, the player then RMT isk... so now the player is facing the punishment Its like robbing a store, then getting arrested and jail, THEN saying "WTF why am I in jail" GTC & Plex is about the same as whatever the OP did. They're just mad cause he bought his ISK from someone else. I log right into my account management page to do my RMTing. -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Gorefacer STRAG3S NEM3SIS. 4	Posted - 2011.12.22 19:59:00 - [82] - Quote Professor Alphane wrote: Let me try give you an example then You and me buy 1 bill isk You spend 500 mil on shiney ship and manage to make 250 M missioning before your caught. 750-1000= -250 in the negative + 1 shiney ship you can't sell. Now I take my billion isk, invest it on the market and make 250M. 1250-1000 = 250 M left in my wallet So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself. Random and arbitary. Different actions, different outcomes, different consequences. That's not random or arbitrary. I guess the take away is if you're going to "illegally" buy ISK makes sure you use it to make back more ISK in your wallet than you bought in quick enough turn around time to beat the clock for it being removed.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 268	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:05:00 - [83] - Quote You spent money on RMT to buy ISK illegally...right now PLEX is high for the ISK trade. Buy some PLEX and sell it in game. Problem solved. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! Support our boobies!-á[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24221&find=unread[/url]
baltec1 250	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:12:00 - [84] - Quote Grab an ibis and belt rat away your sins.
Ai Shun State War Academy Caldari State 69	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:15:00 - [85] - Quote Morganta wrote: well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer. might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits. Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical. ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months. that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them. What are you on about? Removing ISK purchased through unapproved means has been CCP policy since 2007. I linked the dev blog earlier if you are interested. That dev blog also explains the implications of the unapproved RMT and the effect it has on us, the players. Remembering as many as I can: 1. ISK spam in our chat / mailboxes 2. Account hacking to obtain ISK for resale Those two alone are worthy reasons to be ******* annoyed at the OP for taking a dangerous route instead of a very much CCP sanctioned route. The OP has endorsed ISK spam, endorsed account hacking and supported that industry instead of using the legitimate channels to do it. CCP did not force that player to break the rules. That player did it themselves. Nothing unethical about it. The punishment is known.
Ai Shun State War Academy Caldari State 69	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:18:00 - [86] - Quote Lord Ryan wrote: GTC & Plex is about the same as whatever the OP did. They're just mad cause he bought his ISK from someone else. I log right into my account management page to do my RMTing. No, they are not. CCP does not steal accounts to obtain the ISK you gain through selling a PLEX. Nor does CCP run bots to help fund their ISK source so they have something to sell you for those PLEXs.
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 31	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:15:00 - [87] - Quote Lord Ryan wrote: GTC & Plex is about the same as whatever the OP did. They're just mad cause he bought his ISK from someone else. I log right into my account management page to do my RMTing. +1 Shh though ! don't wanna mess with the I.I.M (Icelandic Isk Mafia) YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. The Lostboys 185	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:43:00 - [88] - Quote I remember seeing a post somewhere about a open mining op where the fleet commander pays 2 million isk for each filled jetcan. Paid via "give isk" which can still be done to someone with a negative wallet. If you can find this op and are willing to mine 1000 jet cans, you can mine your way out. But it looks like your best bet is to buy time codes for real money and sell them for isk. And I still say its a bug that you cannot sell something when you have a negative wallet, assuming what you sell covers the tax and broker fee, especially as there is a valid in game mechanic (customs fines) that can result in a negative wallet. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:47:00 - [89] - Quote make an alt and make money wiht it to give to the minus char?
Serene Obsolete Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:53:00 - [90] - Quote Right, it was not ISK I bought but the PLEX themselves, as for assets, I used most of the PLEX to sub my account and sold one to buy and fit a HULK with some change. I would never buy ISK itself, and I should never have bought PLEX from an illegitimate source either but I did and I am being punished for that. I just think PLEX from the EVE store are over priced. EVE in itself is an expensive game compared to other MMO's. If you look at the maths I can see why they price it the way they have. With 15 major content expansions (obviously if they were to be sold as an expansion like other MMO's they would be far less often perhaps with more content.) The extra -ú5 you pay per month is a good offset for this. Still, -ú18 for a single plex is a high price to pay! Don't get me wrong, I know what I did was wrong and I won't be doing it again, but surely you can see the allure of something that is LESS than half price for the same item just from a different source?

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