By asking players to simply give me isk? I wouldn't want to do that, it's not a "career" path I would want to follow in New Eden...

I'm confuzzed, surely your charecter starts with 'Racial Frigate' to start with.

Also how did you get into minus isk anyhow...

And click selling 'simple' doesn't cost anything does it , 'advanced' does.

Get out your credit card and buy GTC from CCP, then sell those GTC on the forums via secure transactions.

Petition it. will the GM acted in all good faith having a negative balance seriously affects the continued viability of your account.

And out of interest how 'negative' are you? a quick 'loan' from a friend might sort it out.

Don't support real life slavery next time.

Well, if you are payed for your work .. you are slave... thats how it is... and no having 5bil dollars a month is not excluded.

Wait, I always thought slavery was working and NOT getting paid.

Did I miss something in the patch notes?

I don't blame CCP because why would anyone expect you to have negative isk, so the routines where never built to handle the situation.

I would like to add that the penalty for buying ISK is (at the minimum) the removal of all ISK bought, no matter if it is still in the wallet or not. Players that buy ISK and spend it on cool stuff will end up with a negative wallet balance and in some cases cannot get out of debt. This is a sad state of affairs but in such cases we cannot provide any additional services to help players get their wallets back into a positive status. They either make it out of debt themselves or they donGÇÖt. Our main concern and focus is protecting the part of our playerbase that follow the rules and do not buy ISK.

I read that as 'we are pissed off and can't be assed', not good PR IMO but pretty much what you'd expect from CCP.

Also if someone does get punished by isk retreval and they have the isk, they suffer less punishment. Is that Just?

Petition it. will the GM acted in all good faith having a negative balance seriously affects the continued viability of your account.

Admit your mistake, accept your punishment but object to the fact your account has been left 'unusable' because of an oversight in CCP's punitive actions.

All the best hope you can sort it out.

And out of interest how 'negative' are you? a quick 'loan' from a friend might sort it out.

BAHHAHAHAH you're a ******* idiot.

only reason OP didn't get banned for RMT was because the GM felt like being nice. It's explicitly stated in the EULA that illegally RMT'ed ISK will be removed from the player's wallet, and/or they will be permabanned.

I actually think that not being able to sell stuff when you have a negative wallet balance is a bug and should be bug reported.

I read that as 'we are pissed off and can't be assed', not good PR IMO but pretty much what you'd expect from CCP.

Hmmm it would seem being -2bil in debt is going to be nearly impossible to get out of...

The only bonus is my account is active for the next 4 months...

I am glad I never got banned but I mean this is pretty much exactly the same.

I wonder if I could still play, train skills, join a corp to get ships and ammo through the hangar and just never bother to get back into positive isk.

No, it reads GǣIf you cheat, we **** you overGǥGǪ that's the best PR a game can ever get.

No they set up mechanics to delibaratly further punish some and not others

It is intentional and has been since 2007. CCP Guard wrote this blog on the topic of RMT / ISK buying. Note the last section that says:

GǪexcept that it punishes everyone equally.

No they set up mechanics to delibaratly further punish some and not others, 'So if you cheat you might get of scot free (except for you lootz) or your account might be permanatly damaged, we like to call it iclandic roullete.'

No if you have the ISK to cover your debt you don't go into negative equity which is almost immposible to get out of.

You can't sell stuff to get positive again ?
Is the market blocked for you ? O_o

Look at it as leniency for only having done half the crime.
.

I look as it as a random chance of when you get caught, how much you where worth in the first place, what your earnings are.

Those who get caught all get the same treatment.

1.) Buy a GTC or PLEX with RL money (eighter use CCP, Eve-codes[dot]com or Shatteredcrystal[dot]com)
2.) Sell the PLEX (or 2 PLEX if you used GTC) on the Timecode Bazaar.
3.) Repeat if you are still in debt.

On the neg. wallet:

Good job CCP. I'm totally against petitioning and then get that deuce his wallet back to 0 for 1 reason only.
The OP should have used the proper way to make ISK if he wanted more (buying GTC / PLEX from official websites).

By using RMT he knew he was violating the EULA and he took the risk and lost.
So no need to help him out, it was all his own choice and he should live with the consequences.

Helping him out would be like giving a bank robber the money he stole back after he served his jail time. Punishments are there for a reason, to let people know they did the wrong thing and to make sure they will NEVER do that again.

I fail to understand this post

Part 1 - Buy some isk it'll sort your problem out

Part 2 - You bought isk ! your scum of the earth and deserve everything you get.

The first 3 points are a way to get the OP out of his negative wallet using the a legit source of ISK by using RL money

A treatment that arbitarily further punishes some but not others, not a great justice system.

Oh I understood I just found it ironic that you then went on to rant about how people who buy isk using RL money should be punished.

If you need to sell something to a corp mate or a bud... In hangar trade for isk. no tax or brokerage fee there and it will knock down your "debt."

GǪexcept that it's not arbitrary. The only way not to go into negative wallet is to not spend the ISK, at which point there was no point in buying it to begin with.

It GǣfurtherGǥ punishes people who spend ISK they have no right to haveGǪ except that there is no GǣfurtherGǥ about it: negative wallet is what happens to everyone who does that. Everyone gets the same treatment. Again: you choose to go into negative wallet. You do this after you choose to break the rules. There is nothing random or arbitrary about any of it unless you have a complete lack of control over your own actions.

Oh, and if you can't see the difference between trading PLEX and giving real money to a third party to illegitimately gain access to stuff owned by CCP, then you need to stop for a bit, sit down, and actually think.

No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not

And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access'

Yes it does. If you had the ISK to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy, then 1) you didn't need to RMT, and 2) you can still buy it once the illegitimate ISK is removed. In order to get into negative wallet, you would have had to have less legit ISK available than the amount you spent (hence why you RMTed) and then you would have had to spend that illicit ISK. If you didn't you wouldn't arrive at a negative wallet.

Oh, and both those steps are your choices, so again, you decide to go into negative wallet. It is about as far from arbitrary as it can ever get.
You bought something that wasn't yours from someone who didn't own it either. You illegitimately gained access to ISK that you shouldn't have.

So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself.

Random and arbitary.

Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank.

Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right.

It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal.

The applied 'punishment' is equal the effects it has in diffrent cases isn't. It's 'Strange and unusual' punishment is some cases , negative isk, or you fly free (if you mange to break even).

I have a hulk (barely 200mil) and my account is now active (however useless) for the next 5 months.

well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting

and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer.

might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits.
Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical.

ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months.
that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them.

The actions the player took is also unethical... people were warned when they set up their eve accounts that EULA says NO RMT, the player then RMT isk... so now the player is facing the punishment


Its like robbing a store, then getting arrested and jail, THEN saying "WTF why am I in jail"

Let me try give you an example then

You and me buy 1 bill isk

You spend 500 mil on shiney ship and manage to make 250 M missioning before your caught. 750-1000= -250 in the negative + 1 shiney ship you can't sell.

Now I take my billion isk, invest it on the market and make 250M. 1250-1000 = 250 M left in my wallet

So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself.

Random and arbitary.

well it appears CCP left you with no options besides botting and quitting

and to those who say the GM was being nice.... lol, the GM gave the player a fate worse than banning, if you think about it, it's probably the single most vindictive move I've ever witnessed against a customer.

might as well have stuck the player in a system with no exits.
Sorry, but no matter how much I dislike botting and RMT the action taken against this player is pretty unethical.

ban accounts if you want, but don't cripple them just so some poor hump can look at an unplayable account for 6 months.
that's pulling the wings off the flies, and not swatting them.

GTC & Plex is about the same as whatever the OP did. They're just mad cause he bought his ISK from someone else. I log right into my account management page to do my RMTing.

GTC & Plex is about the same as whatever the OP did. They're just mad cause he bought his ISK from someone else. I log right into my account management page to do my RMTing.

stuff

Still, -ú18 for a single plex is a high price to pay!

Don't get me wrong, I know what I did was wrong and I won't be doing it again, but surely you can see the allure of something that is LESS than half price for the same item just from a different source?

What are you on about?

Removing ISK purchased through unapproved means has been CCP policy since 2007. I linked the dev blog earlier if you are interested. That dev blog also explains the implications of the unapproved RMT and the effect it has on us, the players. Remembering as many as I can:

1. ISK spam in our chat / mailboxes
2. Account hacking to obtain ISK for resale

Those two alone are worthy reasons to be ******* annoyed at the OP for taking a dangerous route instead of a very much CCP sanctioned route. The OP has endorsed ISK spam, endorsed account hacking and supported that industry instead of using the legitimate channels to do it.

CCP did not force that player to break the rules.

That player did it themselves.

Nothing unethical about it. The punishment is known.

You really should not share such stuff.. And game-time can be payed by subscription which is way cheaper..

Right, it was not ISK I bought but the PLEX themselves, as for assets, I used most of the PLEX to sub my account and sold one to buy and fit a HULK with some change.

I would never buy ISK itself, and I should never have bought PLEX from an illegitimate source either but I did and I am being punished for that. I just think PLEX from the EVE store are over priced. EVE in itself is an expensive game compared to other MMO's.

If you look at the maths I can see why they price it the way they have. With 15 major content expansions (obviously if they were to be sold as an expansion like other MMO's they would be far less often perhaps with more content.) The extra -ú5 you pay per month is a good offset for this.

Still, -ú18 for a single plex is a high price to pay!

Don't get me wrong, I know what I did was wrong and I won't be doing it again, but surely you can see the allure of something that is LESS than half price for the same item just from a different source?

in your case the easiest way out is to trade in space. doing it in station wont work. neither will contracts or market. so mine ore, and trade it to a alt or join a corp and trade in space FTW you have you money back in no time. but consider that youll be paying back what you lost then have to make profit... thats a long and very discouraging road. so just convo me ill hold you hulk. bio your char make a new one and ill contract your ship to him.. then ur new guy has 200m in assets=WIN

+1

Shh though ! don't wanna mess with the I.I.M (Icelandic Isk Mafia)

I just think PLEX from the EVE store are over priced. EVE in itself is an expensive game compared to other MMO's.

If you look at the maths I can see why they price it the way they have. With 15 major content expansions (obviously if they were to be sold as an expansion like other MMO's they would be far less often perhaps with more content.) The extra -ú5 you pay per month is a good offset for this.

Still, -ú18 for a single plex is a high price to pay!

Don't get me wrong, I know what I did was wrong and I won't be doing it again, but surely you can see the allure of something that is LESS than half price for the same item just from a different source?

Ok So I've done something pretty stupid and now I am in minus isk.

I realise what I did is against the rules and will not be doing that again. I am glad I have not been banned, don't get me wrong but I am pretty much unable to play the game now?

I have 0 combat skills and 0 combat ships, I can mine but I can't sell anything on the market to get back into positive equity in my wallet. I can not even trade with a player to sell items that way.

In this situation, what is a player supposed to do?

....buying isk from the "gold" farming sites.
Where exactly do you think the isk from the gold sites comes from?

I understand your arguement Ai but I believe it is oversight on CCP's part. It ISNT a valid game mechanic that is now causing the problem, to be in negative isk shouldn't prevent you from selling things. It was never programmed that way with the intent of further punishing a transgresor.

Or isk from CCP = $ for further EVE development... damn, this is a tough one.