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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1988
   |
Posted - 2016.09.07 16:37:42 -
[151] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:My conclusion is that the bridge building comes from people willing to discuss, on both sides, and meet in the middle. I'm not talking about the people who have rational opposition as being petty and burning bridges. I'm talking strictly about people who came in, mouths frothing and firing off split-second responses.
And as I already said earlier, the whole thing is silly anyway, because its unlikely anyone will give a rat's ass what we say or do up here in space and on the Summit.
Capsuleers tend to be people of record. Often, despite our best efforts, we become celebrities of a sort. Our opinions help shape public opinion among the baseliners. Especially in a place like the Federation, that can have significant impact, indeed.
Those 'frothing' and 'split-second' responses you denigrate have one very powerful virtue in their favor: honesty. They are sincere responses. They are honest, guileless, unfiltered snapshots of reaction - and that reaction will have its mirror among the non-capsuleer populace, as well, including the bureaucrats, politicians, and high-ranking diplomatic and administrative functionaries of the Amarr Empire.
People who take their time to respond will be more measured, more polite, more politic in their replies... but those who do not will always be more honest. If they say it, others are thinking it. It's better to have it said, in the open, where people can understand the concerns and take steps to address them, than it is to leave those things unsaid, and leave yourself open to walking into a room of smiling enemies, each with a hidden grievance... and a hidden knife. |
Silen Serine
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 16:55:37 -
[152] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:(...)
the Federal-Imperial Relations Committee (FED-IMP)
(...)
Out of curiosity, does this body intend to publish any documentation subsequent to the coronation dialogues, supplementary to the Assembly's full report to the Senate? |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
123
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 17:13:49 -
[153] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Ah-- Triss? Joking aside, I'm pretty sure this is a straight-up "no." Lipstick's not a problem either. Caldari sensibilities might consider it decadent in places, but Amarr tend to see aesthetics as functional and practical. Why would God's kingdom in this world insist on looking utilitarian? Even an Amarrian battleship serves a religious function, after all.
My use of cosmetics is pretty sparing by Amarrian standards, but I do use a little. It's never gotten me in any trouble at all.
Ok, that makes wayyy more sense than the alternative. I had misgivings.
So I should definitely aim for a more minimalist style? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2810
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 17:53:57 -
[154] - Quote
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:I do not know about you, Ms. Mithra, but I phrase my requests to visit much more politely. Rather than announcing that they were forming a delegation and then in the same breath state they expected that delegation to be treated as foreign diplomats and dignitaries, they should have requested an invitation to come. That would have been correct and proper.
"We're coming. Better treat us right. We're very important in the Federation." That is how they came across. And the Amarr rightly pointed out that was the incorrect way to do things. The Villore Accords are the ones that made this issue public with their post. Then they doubled down on their arrogance that they had debated the language and they found it proper.
If someone that you didn't know came to your home and demanded to be let in and that you cook them a proper dinner, I suspect you would take offense to that. I would too. My door will open to any that request invitation, but will not crack to a demand.
Gallente are well known for disrespectful behavior like that to other cultures.
Well, I can't tell our Imperial allies what to do, but I can tell what happened to us. Twice gallente offered us their hand with 'diplomatic' approach, and twice they backstabbed us with their other hand.
How do you think, how many Noirs they still have? How many of them would call an Imperial citizen evil just for having slaves?...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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William Danneskjold
38
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Posted - 2016.09.07 18:39:44 -
[155] - Quote
The solution has become clear to me. We need to construct a second assembly. The Villore Assembly General Investigation for Notoriety Assembly for analyzing their things. That way we can make sure they are within certain guidelines to keep the cluster happy.
I volunteer to do all the administrative overhead.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
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Xadiran
Moira.
Villore Accords
68
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:06:40 -
[156] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir.
Thank you
Consider yourself my favorite person on the IGS. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2245
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:38:29 -
[157] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:Easily. Individuals on the Amarr side willing to look past the one-sided request of the Federation boys and girls to their own government, and extend a hand, despite the Accord's attempt at unilaterally inviting themselves. Now tell me why I wouldn't want to put a fork in that?
Well, the Federation and Empire aren't exactly natural allies, despite certain similarities, Pieter. The Empire's not going to take the Federation's side against the State. They're both fundamentally imperialist powers. That makes them natural enemies-- rivals at the very least. The Empire siding with the Federation is even less likely than the State joining forces with the Minmatar Republic.
That's not what's at stake.
What if we could go back to the way things were, before Caldari Prime, before the Elder Fleet? The "Pendulum War" serves as a pressure valve, but, do you really want to stop us getting the pressure back down? Do you want this war to go on forever? Is the only acceptable ending, to you, total victory?
It's never going to happen. And if the Empires did enter a state of total war, there's no guarantee the Caldari would even survive.
Capsuleers being diplomatic, reaching across national lines ... we're not real diplomats. But so what?
I know how important the State is to you, but, I don't have a country anymore, Pieter. I know so much about Achura, but, I can't even remember what it looks like.
And with the Drifters, here, now--
I'd rather this whole war ended. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
837
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 20:14:43 -
[158] - Quote
Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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William Danneskjold
47
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 22:24:22 -
[159] - Quote
Nevermind!
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
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Julianus Soter
Moira.
Villore Accords
362
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 00:08:36 -
[160] - Quote
Silen Serine wrote:Xun Yu wrote:(...)
the Federal-Imperial Relations Committee (FED-IMP)
(...) Out of curiosity, does this body intend to publish any documentation subsequent to the coronation dialogues, supplementary to the Assembly's full report to the Senate?
Yes, we will be providing a full report of our attendance and various happenings of note. Thank you for your interest.
Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1415
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 01:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
Privateer!
Spirits above! It's like none of you knew of something called 'sponsored piracy'!
By the way, I won't be attending this week's Drifter Ops. Something planetside and urgent cropped up and requires my attention.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
839
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 01:58:38 -
[162] - Quote
Well damn. There goes my attempt to build bridges.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1415
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 02:16:09 -
[163] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Well damn. There goes my attempt to build bridges.
You are still good person, even though you can be very scary-passionate at times.
I will attend the next 0200 Drifter Ops. Should be nothing urgent then.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
707
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 06:49:04 -
[164] - Quote
Maria Daphiti wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Conservative Amarr BuddyGäó wrote:"I support it. The VA has no small amount of power and resources, and they do represent in no small part the hopes, goals, and intent of the Federation. I have not seen a capsuleer organization have a better working, more effective relationship with their faction than that of the Assembly." PIE has a long and proud history of working with the Empire from the very beginning, to Fabricator General Ascentior's and Lieutenant Samira Kernher's leadership during the T3 destroyer research race, to Lady Admiral Newelle's leadership of Team Sarum in the trials. http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Praetoria_Imperialis_Excubitoris
This complex really does not suit PIE. Any man who has to declare himself king is no king.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2019
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 07:03:16 -
[165] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Any man who has to declare himself king is no king.
Ah, but that's how kingdoms are made... conquer, then declare yourself king.
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
701
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 07:39:22 -
[166] - Quote
Do it right and they will themselves declare you king.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy
RED University
86
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 11:54:46 -
[167] - Quote
Purity of the Throne 
Purity of the Throne
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
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Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
847
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 13:26:07 -
[168] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:You are still good person, even though you can be very scary-passionate at times. I like this description: scary-passionate.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2815
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:33:54 -
[169] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
He is enemy of both Amarr Empire and Caldari State. He is not just 'Federal citizen', he is a member of a corporation that actively attacks both Amarr Empire and Caldari State - FDU. They are hunted down not by us, but even by Imperial Navy fleet in every Amarr high security space disregarding his security status and his personal standing to Amarr Empire.
An enemy is an enemy.
Besides that I would like to remind, that Elmund Egivand personally have been spreading propaganda about Caldari pilots on this exact forum and lies multiple times.
Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:51:48 -
[170] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it. He is enemy of both Amarr Empire and Caldari State. He is not just 'Federal citizen', he is a member of a corporation that actively attacks both Amarr Empire and Caldari State - FDU. They are hunted down not by us, but even by Imperial Navy fleet in every Amarr high security space disregarding his security status and his personal standing to Amarr Empire. An enemy is an enemy. Besides that I would like to remind, that Elmund Egivand personally have been spreading propaganda about Caldari pilots on this exact forum and lies multiple times. Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
I am smirking. I am smirking right now.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2023
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:52:03 -
[171] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
Welcome to 'different people have different priorities', Commander. Alizabeth wages a war against and enemy far more dangerous than any human empire has shown itself to be. They've had a year to build up, largely unmolested, from a point where they were already building a staggeringly huge fleet in a very short amount of time. Remember, Tukoss's last broadcast didn't talk about the hundred vessels we saw at Safizon, but hundreds of them, with more arriving throughout the recording.
Hundreds. Fourteen months ago. How many thousands are there now?
Alizabeth's war is bigger than your war, Commander. She cannot afford petty matters like 'politics' to atrophy her strength. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2816
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 18:35:00 -
[172] - Quote
That's not "my" war, Arrendiot.
I fight the war that the Caldari State and Amarr Empire are fighting agianst the Federation and Republic, the war that involves using both capsuleer and baseline Navy vessels, with fights going on both in space and on planets. The life looks calm in safety of high security systems... yet. But you shall see yourself what's going on in the warzone and on planets there. That's not your sandbox games about wars between nullsec barons.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2043
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:01:01 -
[173] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:That's not "my" war, Arrendiot.
It's the only war you care about, Commander, based on your own statements and obsessions.
But fine: The war she fights is larger than the war you fight. She has no time for your petty politics, just as I will no longer respond to your empty and tired attempts to insult me. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:15:17 -
[174] - Quote
I'm not sure it's larger.
It's definitely scarier. The power imbalance is ...
... there. Very much there.
(Though really it's hard to even tell how strong the Drifters really are. We might be doing quite a lot. We might be whistling in a hurricane.) |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8680
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:32:53 -
[175] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:I'm not sure it's larger.
It's definitely scarier. The power imbalance is ...
... there. Very much there.
(Though really it's hard to even tell how strong the Drifters really are. We might be doing quite a lot. We might be whistling in a hurricane.)
At this point, what concerns me is that we still don't know their objectives, or know the extent of their infrastructure. We know that the Hives are massive constructions, and the Hive systems we know are the central point of their salvage operations. But where did the Incursion fleets come from? The wormholes that they came through for those were impassible to us. Did they stage in shielded or concealed locations in the Hive systems we know, or are there more? Could there be an actual Drifter empire, and these places we raid are merely the outlying fortifications, as their names imply?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2044
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:42:23 -
[176] - Quote
At the risk of being depressing, Ms. Jenneth - within six months of their first sighting, they had hundreds of battleships. When Seraph was destroyed, there was not a single Hikanta-type present. Now, in a very good week, perhaps fifteen Drifters are killed by the expedition teams - eight to ten seems to be more of a steady average, and even that might be on the high side.
Even without assuming any production capabilities at all - which seems a bit ridiculous, at best - we'd be looking at six months to a year of constant, focused work to deal with the lowest possible estimates for what was shown in that recording. We can produce battleship-sized vessels at a prodigious rate, even in a small starbase. Their engineering technology is undeniably superior. There's no reason to believe they haven't been constructing more. Even at an extremely conservative rate of 3 hulls per day, killing ten a week (as a high average rate) means only slowing their growth by 40%.
What we're doing is learning. But as I've said in the other thread, we need to understand how we can scale our activities upward. If we don't... they only need to put a fifth of what we've already seen on the field to guarantee no survivors with what we're using now. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:08:55 -
[177] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:At the risk of being depressing, Ms. Jenneth - within six months of their first sighting, they had hundreds of battleships. When Seraph was destroyed, there was not a single Hikanta-type present. Now, in a very good week, perhaps fifteen Drifters are killed by the expedition teams - eight to ten seems to be more of a steady average, and even that might be on the high side.
Even without assuming any production capabilities at all - which seems a bit ridiculous, at best - we'd be looking at six months to a year of constant, focused work to deal with the lowest possible estimates for what was shown in that recording. We can produce battleship-sized vessels at a prodigious rate, even in a small starbase. Their engineering technology is undeniably superior. There's no reason to believe they haven't been constructing more. Even at an extremely conservative rate of 3 hulls per day, killing ten a week (as a high average rate) means only slowing their growth by 40%.
What we're doing is learning. But as I've said in the other thread, we need to understand how we can scale our activities upward. If we don't... they only need to put a fifth of what we've already seen on the field to guarantee no survivors with what we're using now.
So-- that's true, but it's also not necessarily what I was talking about. I mean, if the focus is really on massed fleets, you're clearly correct, but-- what if the Drifters aren't really building many more ships? I mean, that I know of, we've never seen a Hikanta outside of a Hive chamber at all.
(Also, I think fifteen is a REALLY good run. I think the average is more like five, counting the Hikanta, especially recently.)
The thing is, they also haven't been bulking up their patrols or defenses at all, which suggests that either they're stockpiling them somewhere to prepare for a truly terrifying wave of invasions or their focus is on something else.
(Or they're suffering a production bottleneck we don't face. Biomass, maybe?)
The idea that worries me more is that they're not coming at us where we're strong, but trying something else. We don't know what the Nexuses are or what they're for, but we know that the Elements we've been recovering mess with people's heads.
What if a Nexus is really a broacast array, meant to project Element-like qualities into other places and things?
or,
What if all the Hives themselve possess Elemental properties, and the Nexuses (stargate-based phenomena as they seem to be) are the place where these cosmic Elements are joined, to create a multi-system analogue to a Coalesced Element? What would you use something like that for?
or,
What if they're just plain charging a massive weapon, preparing to trigger a supernova-like event in the heart of New Eden?
or,
What if they're trying to suppress the phenomena that make the Eve Gate impassible?
We don't even know for sure whether we're fighting the right kind of war. But they won't talk to us to explain themselves, and it's not clear how else we could interfere with them, so.... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2044
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:13:43 -
[178] - Quote
So we focus on what we can, and we keep trying to learn. Most of those possibilities are things we wouldn't even know how to prevent, right now. They're things we don't even know they have the capacity to threaten us with, or what form that might take. So we really can't prepare for those potential threats.
We know they have ships. We know they have a lot of ships. So we can at least prepare for that possibility. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:15:51 -
[179] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:So we focus on what we can, and we keep trying to learn. Most of those possibilities are things we wouldn't even know how to prevent, right now. They're things we don't even know they have the capacity to threaten us with, or what form that might take. So we really can't prepare for those potential threats.
We know they have ships. We know they have a lot of ships. So we can at least prepare for that possibility.
Exactly. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
859
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 16:56:09 -
[180] - Quote
In the past two days, SFRIM, along with the allies of PIE and TYRIN, have killed thirty-two Drifter battleships. I intend to do everything I can do to make that number increa
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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