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Xun Yu
Sanxing
150
   |
Posted - 2016.09.05 10:10:23 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:Resolution VA/2/1
Second Villore Assembly
Sponsors: Julianus Soter
Signatories: Beauregard Audeles; James Syagrius; Tressith Sefira; Tristan Valentina.
Endorsements: Charles Cambridge Schmidt; Korbin Lavius.
Topic: GÇ£Coronation of the Amarr Empress.GÇ¥
The Villore Assembly,
Recalling the fundamental political and economic nature of the interstellar society,
Recognising the historic relationship between the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation,
Noting particularly the treaties which have developed a peaceful dialogue between our peoples, including the Gallente-Amarr Free Trade Agreement of 23210AD,
Cognizant of the enormous religious and political impact of this coronation to the Amarr people,
Stressing the need to maintain and develop meaningful relationships between the Federation and the Empire,
1. Establishes an official delegation from the Villore Assembly to attend the coronation ceremony,
2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation,
3. Calls for this delegation to report back to the Villore Assembly on the tone prevalent throughout the ceremonies,
4. Commits to write a report to the Federal Senate, detailing the observations and comments from all delegation.
Please note the official list of delegates will be included here as soon as the Federal-Imperial Relations Committee (FED-IMP) has finalised it.
For the Federation,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Ameriya
The Scope
Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:01:50 -
[2] - Quote
What is a Villore Assembly? |
Xun Yu
Sanxing
151
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:05:51 -
[3] - Quote
Ameriya wrote:What is a Villore Assembly?
Hopefully this announcement will provide more information: [GalFed] Announcement of the Villore Assembly.
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Ameriya
The Scope
Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:22:53 -
[4] - Quote
Cool |
Xun Yu
Sanxing
151
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:28:31 -
[5] - Quote
I certainly agree. If you are interested in participating please do let me know via a mail, the Villore Assembly would benefit from the input of more Federal citizens.
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Ameriya
The Scope
Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:38:24 -
[6] - Quote
Are there membership fees? A dress code? |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1281
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:53:37 -
[7] - Quote
I'm going to be honest here and ask why an extra-governmental group of Capsuleers think they should be afforded the same rights and priviledges as official representatives of the other Big Three Signatories? I'm sure members of the Assembly will be treated the same as any other visitor on the day, but this seems a bit much to be asking for the same treatment as the leaders and diplomats of the State, the Federation proper and the Republic (should they choose to attend). I'm not sure lobby groups sit on the same level.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
639
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:03:05 -
[8] - Quote
I concur with Mr. Onzo. Maybe their success with the Jin-Mei thing has gone to their head? |
Xun Yu
Sanxing
152
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:21:22 -
[9] - Quote
Ameriya wrote:Are there membership fees? A dress code?
There are no membership fees, and as far as a dress code when either connected via holo or attending in person we ask only that all delegates and observers follow the decorum for any public venue.
Thank you,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Utari Onzo wrote:I'm going to be honest here and ask why an extra-governmental group of Capsuleers think they should be afforded the same rights and priviledges as official representatives of the other Big Three Signatories? I'm sure members of the Assembly will be treated the same as any other visitor on the day, but this seems a bit much to be asking for the same treatment as the leaders and diplomats of the State, the Federation proper and the Republic (should they choose to attend). I'm not sure lobby groups sit on the same level.
Jueshi Onzo,
The Villore Assembly represents an important and growing section of Federal citizens, citizens who have demonstrated an ability to and willingness to engage with political, social, and economic matters of the day in order to improve the Federation. The privileges we are asking to be extended are no different to those offered to official representatives of any organisation, whether non-governmental, corporate, and so forth.
These requests have been endorsed by observers from Amarrian organisations, and were subject to lengthy debate in committee and on the assembly floor, as such I would suggest that your point is not a new one and has been debated.
Thank you kindly for your interest.
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Teinyhr wrote:I concur with Mr. Onzo. Maybe their success with the Jin-Mei thing has gone to their head?
Nushi Teinyhr,
The Villore Assembly is quite aware of the limits of our abilities, and as I mentioned in my response to Jueshi Onzo this was also raised in the committee and on the floor and again has been discussed at length.
Thank you kindly for your interest,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy
RED University
77
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:24:22 -
[10] - Quote
Oh my God.
What is happening in this world.
The enemy is at the coronation ceremony.
Amarrians have forgotten who support the rebels.
Continuing the idiocy....
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:25:50 -
[11] - Quote
So effectively rather then being happy to simply turn up as any other visitor will be allowed on the day, you are asking for special treatment exactly because you're a pressure group? Perhaps Providence should ask to be given special priviledges on the same basis?
We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Xun Yu
Sanxing
152
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:31:35 -
[12] - Quote
Vollhov Jr wrote:Oh my God.
What is happening in this world.
The enemy is at the coronation ceremony.
Amarrians have forgotten who support the rebels.
Continuing the idiocy....
Jueshi Volhov,
I would direct you to the fact that President Roden attended the state funeral for the late Empress Jamyl, the attendance of Federal citizens at an official public ceremony is hardly unique.
Thank you kindly
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Utari Onzo wrote:So effectively rather then being happy to simply turn up as any other visitor will be allowed on the day, you are asking for special treatment exactly because you're a pressure group? Perhaps Providence should ask to be given special priviledges on the same basis?
We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats and everyone else on these forums.
Jueshi Onzo,
Again allow me to reiterate this is not 'special treatment' or rather any more special treat than that which is afforded to representatives of a myriad of organisations attending such diplomatic events. You seem to be misapprehending the reality of diplomatic events and functions, these privileges are hardly unique and are a matter of a simple confirmation travel document and frequently afforded for all manner of events or meetings. Further asking for clarification of diplomatic status is particularly relevant given present political realities.
Thank you once again for your time.
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy
RED University
77
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:46:31 -
[13] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:Vollhov Jr wrote:Oh my God.
What is happening in this world.
The enemy is at the coronation ceremony.
Amarrians have forgotten who support the rebels.
Continuing the idiocy.... Jueshi Volhov, I would direct you to the fact that President Roden attended the state funeral for the late Empress Jamyl, the attendance of Federal citizens at an official public ceremony is hardly unique. Thank you kindly Taishou Xun Yu Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
I know.
When your state into the open supports terrorism in the Empire, and at the same time makes it appear that he "mourns" death of the enemy. This is an excellent course of the Federation.
The fact is that the Amarrians become stupid.
I have information that in the past, the Federation receives money from Tash-Murkon family. (there are documents confirming the family history)
While true Amarr are dying in the war, Tash-Murkon Family gets richer.
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:01:54 -
[14] - Quote
Mr Xun I assure you I do not misunderstand. The language used asking to be treated the same as any foreign dignitary effectively is a request to be invited to the event proper as dignitaries. Whether you are a head of state or CEO of a multinational you do not ever ask for an invitation to an event like this, you receive one at the host's pleasure. Your arrogance at assuming an invitation is what I take offence to, unless you are infact attending as any other visitor in which case you do not need special garauntees afforded beyond that of any other tourist.
Get your facts on diplomacy straight.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Xun Yu
Sanxing
157
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:07:38 -
[15] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Mr Xun I assure you I do not misunderstand. The language used asking to be treated the same as any foreign dignitary effectively is a request to be invited to the event proper as dignitaries. Whether you are a head of state or CEO of a multinational you do not ever ask for an invitation to an event like this, you receive one at the host's pleasure. Your arrogance at assuming an invitation is what I take offence to, unless you are infact attending as any other visitor in which case you do not need special garauntees afforded beyond that of any other tourist.
Get your facts on diplomacy straight.
Jueshi Onzo,
This resolution of the Villore Assembly is a perfectly reasonable d+¬marche a long standing element in international relations.
Thank you kindly,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
151
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:08:13 -
[16] - Quote
What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something? |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:16:18 -
[17] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something?
I am not bored, I simply take grave offence when an unofficial pressure group attempts to use language representing itself as an official diplomatic organisation and inviting themselves to an event under the same status.
If the intention was to request the same assurances as any other non-governmental organisation during the Assembly's visit to the Empire, that explicitly is what should have been requested. Instead the language used was one explicitly asking for the same status as foreign dignitaries, that is those officially recognised invited diplomats and representatives of a foreign state. The Assembly is not an official nation in its own right and there fore cannot use the same language as nations use between themselves. It is also not a recognised official body of the Federation proper. Further, I state again one does not simply invite themselves to the event proper, one is requested by the Host.
In future I expect the Assembly to be more clear in its language on its actual position and not to assume to be able to speak as anything remotely official in regards to the Federation, and to ask only for those assurances it is entitled to.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
152
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:32:51 -
[18] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:I simply take grave offence when an unofficial pressure group attempts to use language representing itself as an official diplomatic organisation and inviting themselves to an event under the same status.
Well that's a weirdly specific thing to be able to express a personal tendency about.
I'm still not sure if you're trying to be helpful by offering "constructive criticism" (in a really unconstructive way) or trying to be destructive or just speaking your offended mood because you can. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
639
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:33:19 -
[19] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something?
Frankly I do not find him to be in the wrong here, at all. Regardless of the Assemblies achievements, it is essentially a capsuleer hobby club, and nothing more, and should be treated as such as a political entity.
|
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
153
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:43:49 -
[20] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something? Frankly I do not find him to be in the wrong here, at all. Regardless of the Assemblies achievements, it is essentially a capsuleer hobby club, and nothing more, and should be treated as such as a political entity.
And what are you trying to accomplish? (Here and now, or on a larger scale.) |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:49:52 -
[21] - Quote
Well, this is interesting. I am no longer a diplomat and only speak for myself, but here is what I have to add to this kerfuffle.
Diplomacy can only be conducted by sovereign actors, which I assume this Villore Assembly is not. You're a civics club. There's nothing wrong with being a civics club and I am sure your members find a certain measure of satisfaction and worth in participating in such a club. However, a civics club has no bearing on the diplomatic relations between sovereign state actors. A Gallente civics club has no bearing at all on the Holy Amarr Empire. Honestly, we don't care.
When I was sent to Synchelle in '03 as the cultural attache to the diplomatic mission there, it was the Throne that sent a request to the Federal Government that I be afforded diplomatic privileges as an official representative of the Holy Amarr Empire. That's how the system is supposed to work. The privileges were agreed upon well before hand in treaties establishing relationships between the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation. Absent any agreement, there are no privileges. However, I am also sure that there are sections in those treaties that cover the treatment of foreign nationals visiting the Amarr Empire. There are also treaties that cover capsuleers. Any Villore Assembly observers would fall under these already agreed upon treaties.
Asking to be treated as an official diplomatic representative of the Gallente Federation would require the Gallente Federation to recognize you as such official representatives and for them to ask for that through the proper channels to the Empire.
By all means, come. Just don't ask for what you are not entitled to. |
Xun Yu
Sanxing
160
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:02:36 -
[22] - Quote
Contessa della Solfete wrote:Well, this is interesting. I am no longer a diplomat and only speak for myself, but here is what I have to add to this kerfuffle.
Diplomacy can only be conducted by sovereign actors, which I assume this Villore Assembly is not. You're a civics club. There's nothing wrong with being a civics club and I am sure your members find a certain measure of satisfaction and worth in participating in such a club. However, a civics club has no bearing on the diplomatic relations between sovereign state actors. A Gallente civics club has no bearing at all on the Holy Amarr Empire. Honestly, we don't care.
When I was sent to Synchelle in '03 as the cultural attache to the diplomatic mission there, it was the Throne that sent a request to the Federal Government that I be afforded diplomatic privileges as an official representative of the Holy Amarr Empire. That's how the system is supposed to work. The privileges were agreed upon well before hand in treaties establishing relationships between the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation. Absent any agreement, there are no privileges. However, I am also sure that there are sections in those treaties that cover the treatment of foreign nationals visiting the Amarr Empire. There are also treaties that cover capsuleers. Any Villore Assembly observers would fall under these already agreed upon treaties.
Asking to be treated as an official diplomatic representative of the Gallente Federation would require the Gallente Federation to recognize you as such official representatives and for them to ask for that through the proper channels to the Empire.
By all means, come. Just don't ask for what you are not entitled to.
Contessa della Solfete,
And in your extensive time as a diplomatic attache you never saw NGOs recognised with certain diplomatic privileges and rights in order that they might pursue their agendas? Regardless of other international treaties and relations, or the status of individual members of said NGOs? Of course you did, this is a common reality of the international society, and I repeat the notion that what the Villore Assembly is somehow remarkable or beyond the pale is frankly laughable.
Thank you kindly
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1959
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:04:09 -
[23] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something? I am not bored, I simply take grave offence when an unofficial pressure group attempts to use language representing itself as an official diplomatic organisation and inviting themselves to an event under the same status.
Well, at least it's not some truly reviled group doing it though, right Utari? btw...
Contessa della Solfete wrote:Diplomacy can only be conducted by sovereign actors
I should check with Mittens to see if his invitation's been received yet. |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
175
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:07:53 -
[24] - Quote
Contessa della Solfete wrote:By all means, come. Just don't ask for what you are not entitled to.
To you people who keep posting things like this, I ask: do you all realize how OFTEN this happens between sovereign nations, all the time? This is such a common thing to request.
Utari Onzo wrote:blah blah blah how dare you grr
I remember when you were much more light hearted and fun.
I was personally responsible for a lot of the ideas tossed around for this delegation. This is not a time to whinge and shun foreigners because you think you know diplomacy more than the guy who's ended a civil war, among things. To quote one of my more conservative Amarr buddies:
Conservative Amarr BuddyGäó wrote:"I support it. The VA has no small amount of power and resources, and they do represent in no small part the hopes, goals, and intent of the Federation. I have not seen a capsuleer organization have a better working, more effective relationship with their faction than that of the Assembly."
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
160
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:14:08 -
[25] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Conservative Amarr BuddyGäó wrote:"I support it. The VA has no small amount of power and resources, and they do represent in no small part the hopes, goals, and intent of the Federation. I have not seen a capsuleer organization have a better working, more effective relationship with their faction than that of the Assembly."
PIE has a long and proud history of working with the Empire.
http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/PIE_Inc.
|
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
176
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:16:01 -
[26] - Quote
Maria Daphiti wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Conservative Amarr BuddyGäó wrote:"I support it. The VA has no small amount of power and resources, and they do represent in no small part the hopes, goals, and intent of the Federation. I have not seen a capsuleer organization have a better working, more effective relationship with their faction than that of the Assembly." PIE has a long and proud history of working with the Empire. http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/PIE_Inc.
Well, neither one was CVA was my point.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1960
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:16:20 -
[27] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Utari Onzo wrote:blah blah blah how dare you grr I remember when you were much more light hearted and fun.
So do I, but even we get old, up in the brain, and start yelling things like 'all'a you kids, get off'n my region'... |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:24:30 -
[28] - Quote
Any non-governmental organization worked through the embassy or mission of the system they were in. Some might have been afforded more privileges than a foreign national would have otherwise, but nothing on the level of an actual diplomatic delegation, which is what you've asked.
Quote:2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation,
You've asked for the Villore Accords to be treated as an accredited diplomat on the same level as an official delegation from the Gallente Federation, the Caldari State, the Minmatar Republic, CONCORD, or the SOCT. This is what has caused you trouble. If you'd just announced that you were attending to observe the momentous day and all of its splendor, every Amarr would have welcomed you with open arms. If you had just announced that you were attending and requested that your delegation be given all lawful aid and protection in case of need, the Amarr would have welcomed you with open arms. However, you asked for special treatment.
Such an event is going to be crowded. There will be more people along parade routes and in cathedrals and ballrooms than could possibly fit. Even a holder like myself is pretty far down on the guest lists for the coronation galas. By asking for special treatment for your delegation, you've put yourself ahead of actual Imperial citizens and faithful subjects of Her soon to be Imperial Majesty. The reason why governments allow such important persons as ambassadors and heads of state to attend events--and put them at the head of the guest lists--is because they are important people that actually make decisions. It is far better for the Holy Amarr Empire to have a good relationship with the President of the Federation than even a few billion voters. Quid pro quo.
Come to the coronation. Have a great time; I am sure you will. Just don't assume you will be afforded any undue benefit.
If your delegation decides to swing by Nordar II and Solfete on the way back, though, as Contessa I can extend every possible courtesy for the length of your stay at my holding. |
Xun Yu
Sanxing
162
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:31:38 -
[29] - Quote
Contessa della Solfete wrote:Any non-governmental organization worked through the embassy or mission of the system they were in. Some might have been afforded more privileges than a foreign national would have otherwise, but nothing on the level of an actual diplomatic delegation, which is what you've asked. Quote:2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation, You've asked for the Villore Accords to be treated as an accredited diplomat on the same level as an official delegation from the Gallente Federation, the Caldari State, the Minmatar Republic, CONCORD, or the SOCT. This is what has caused you trouble. If you'd just announced that you were attending to observe the momentous day and all of its splendor, every Amarr would have welcomed you with open arms. If you had just announced that you were attending and requested that your delegation be given all lawful aid and protection in case of need, the Amarr would have welcomed you with open arms. However, you asked for special treatment. Such an event is going to be crowded. There will be more people along parade routes and in cathedrals and ballrooms than could possibly fit. Even a holder like myself is pretty far down on the guest lists for the coronation galas. By asking for special treatment for your delegation, you've put yourself ahead of actual Imperial citizens and faithful subjects of Her soon to be Imperial Majesty. The reason why governments allow such important persons as ambassadors and heads of state to attend events--and put them at the head of the guest lists--is because they are important people that actually make decisions. It is far better for the Holy Amarr Empire to have a good relationship with the President of the Federation than even a few billion voters. Quid pro quo. Come to the coronation. Have a great time; I am sure you will. Just don't assume you will be afforded any undue benefit. If your delegation decides to swing by Nordar II and Solfete on the way back, though, as Contessa I can extend every possible courtesy for the length of your stay at my holding.
Contessa della Solfete,
Again allow me to repeat: what other word would you choose to use to describe being afford the legal protections and aid necessary to fulfill one's role and agenda at a foreign event if not diplomatic privileges? This seemed to the committee and to the Villore Assembly a perfectly reasonable choice of language.
As I am sure you are no doubt aware that there are among any diplomatic relationship orders of precedence based on all sorts of traditional and nuanced aspects of international affairs - the Dean of the Diplomatic Corps being the senior diplomat from amongst all diplomatic missions and so forth. As such we are quite aware that the Villore Assembly delegation would not placed in the same preeminence as say delegations from the State or CONCORD. However as you'd know from your extensive experience we would still be placed within that order. Diplomatic protections and rights do not afford delegations with equal standing, one need only look at the distinction between consulates and embassies to realise this - they are both afforded diplomatic rights but are certainly not of equal standing and have distinct roles.
We do not consider the wording of this resolution, debated at length and developed with consultation from Amarrian organisations, to be unreasonable.
Thank you kindly,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation
Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
|
Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
Rote Kapelle
497
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:43:15 -
[30] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:
Contessa della Solfete,
Again allow me to repeat: what other word would you choose to use to describe being afford the legal protections and aid necessary to fulfill one's role and agenda at a foreign event if not diplomatic privileges? This seemed to the committee and to the Villore Assembly a perfectly reasonable choice of language.
As I am sure you are no doubt aware that there are among any diplomatic relationship orders of precedence based on all sorts of traditional and nuanced aspects of international affairs - the Dean of the Diplomatic Corps being the senior diplomat from amongst all diplomatic missions and so forth. As such we are quite aware that the Villore Assembly delegation would not placed in the same preeminence as say delegations from the State or CONCORD. However as you'd know from your extensive experience we would still be placed within that order. Diplomatic protections and rights do not afford delegations with equal standing, one need only look at the distinction between consulates and embassies to realise this - they are both afforded diplomatic rights but are certainly not of equal standing and have distinct roles.
We do not consider the wording of this resolution, debated at length and developed with consultation from Amarrian organisations, to be unreasonable.
Thank you kindly,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
You simply ask or politely announce that you are going to attend and unless the host refuses, the implication therein is that the host will extend to you the principle of hospitality so long as you, the guest, are respectful of the laws and customs set forth by the host. This typically includes protection against unlawful attacks, be they physical or otherwise.
By asking for special treatment, you are in fact insinuating that the host is incapable or potentially not able to afford you their hospitality and in doing so, you cause offense.
We travel in the dark of the new moon,
A starry highway traced on the map of the sky
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1960
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:43:24 -
[31] - Quote
Perhaps it would be helpful to outline what 'protections and aid' you feel the Assembly delegation needs that would not be afforded a normal citizen of the Federation. Are you talking about access? A place in the receiving line at the reception? Acknowledgement of your existence and of the fact that you're unlikely at best to pull a gun and attempt to kill the Empress?
Giving people an idea of just what it is you're asking for might give them more ability to decide if they hate you for asking for it. |
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
349
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:47:41 -
[32] - Quote
To all Empire loyal in this thread openly criticising the VA for wishing to attend the coronation cwremony you forget your places. None of you have the authority to deny this resolution, which is clearly a simple internal note of a desire to attend, and quite a few of you are barely even in a position to represent the Amarr.
This thread is merely an attempt for the Assembly to maintain its transparency, not a demand for their delegation to be accepted or admitted. It is up to those who lead to make this decision. If you are so anathemic to the notion of diplomacy between two great nations then I suggest you take your bitterness to field, instead of attacking a well meaning group who are clearly trying their best to promote peace and stability in the cluster. |
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
67
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:47:51 -
[33] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:
We do not consider the wording of this resolution, debated at length and developed with consultation from Amarrian organisations, to be unreasonable.
Thank you kindly,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
Nor I. I too had my fingers dipped within this pot, and I aided it to fruition. I know not why so many are contesting such things when all the Assembly has done is make an announcement of its intent to attend as a diplomatic function. The wording is that which is fitting enough for the courts, and as such, fitting enough for me. Mayhaps I am missing the gene that causes me to be upset at such small things. Such things elude me.
Regardless... We should be welcoming, taking this as a time to show off the Empire's hospitality and power. This is the time for the finest the Empire has to offer in one of its finest days, instead of petty bickering.
Edit:
Lord Kailethre wrote:None of you have the authority to deny this resolution, which is clearly a simple internal note of a desire to attend, and quite a few of you are barely even in a position to represent the Amarr.
Well, I did not want to say it, but... Yes, these are very true feelings. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
640
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:52:39 -
[34] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:What is the point of your complaint about this, Mr. Onzo? Are you bored right now or something? Frankly I do not find him to be in the wrong here, at all. Regardless of the Assemblies achievements, it is essentially a capsuleer hobby club, and nothing more, and should be treated as such as a political entity. And what are you trying to accomplish? (Here and now, or on a larger scale.)
I do not understand your question. Well, I kind of do, but please do be more specific unless you want me to detail my schedule to you for the next six months. |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:55:58 -
[35] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:
Contessa della Solfete,
Again allow me to repeat: what other word would you choose to use to describe being afford the legal protections and aid necessary to fulfill one's role and agenda at a foreign event if not diplomatic privileges? This seemed to the committee and to the Villore Assembly a perfectly reasonable choice of language.
As I am sure you are no doubt aware that there are among any diplomatic relationship orders of precedence based on all sorts of traditional and nuanced aspects of international affairs - the Dean of the Diplomatic Corps being the senior diplomat from amongst all diplomatic missions and so forth. As such we are quite aware that the Villore Assembly delegation would not placed in the same preeminence as say delegations from the State or CONCORD. However as you'd know from your extensive experience we would still be placed within that order. Diplomatic protections and rights do not afford delegations with equal standing, one need only look at the distinction between consulates and embassies to realise this - they are both afforded diplomatic rights but are certainly not of equal standing and have distinct roles.
We do not consider the wording of this resolution, debated at length and developed with consultation from Amarrian organisations, to be unreasonable.
Thank you kindly,
Taishou Xun Yu
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly
I do not know which Amarrian organization you consulted with, but I will say that language is flawed and faulty. Treaties, like all legal documents, are subjected to intense scrutiny as to the language and grammar. A misplaced comma can cost millions of ISK.
The Villore Accords are not a 'foreign delegation' anymore than myself and my entourage would be to visit Caille to shop. While I am sure I would save a fortune on parking with diplomatic markings on my vehicle, it's not going to happen.
Now, as Mlle. Saissore said, if you're just asking for the same protection as every other foreign national visiting the Empire, there's no need for a second point. It will be afforded regardless. The only reason for point two would be that you are requesting additional courtesies and privileges not usually afforded to foreign nationals.
So, are you asking for something else beyond the normal aid and protection accorded to foreign nationals visiting the Empire? |
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
351
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 15:04:25 -
[36] - Quote
Contessa della Solfete wrote:
The Villore Accords are not a 'foreign delegation'
Clearly you are not acquainted with the works of the Assembly. At all. |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 15:15:43 -
[37] - Quote
By all means, Lord Kailethre, enlighten me with your decades of wisdom and experience in interstellar politics and diplomacy. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1962
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 15:17:52 -
[38] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:Contessa della Solfete wrote:
The Villore Accords are not a 'foreign delegation'
Clearly you are not acquainted with the works of the Assembly. At all.
A 'foreign delegation' does not mean 'a delegation of foreigners', but rather 'an official delegation of representatives from a foreign sovereign power'. The Federation's official delegation would be a foreign delegation. A delegation from the system government of Dodixie would be expected to go through the diplomatic channels of their own government in order to be attached to the Federal delegation. Similarly, a delegation acting on the behalf of - and with official sanction from - the planetary government of Caldari Prime would be expected to be part of the State delegation. Absent any official imprimatur from the Federal government, an NGO is not a 'foreign delegation', but rather a 'non-state delegation', which is rather a different thing.
Also, do not let Sion Kumitomo get started on the intricacies of diplomacy between sovereign powers and their constituent members, systems, corporations, and trade associations, the man will talk for days. I think I saw a guy from SMA chewing his own leg off to escape... which was odd, because all he had to do was turn off the holo.
But hey, Monkeys, amirite? |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 15:31:22 -
[39] - Quote
To answer your question, Director Arrendis, whether The Mittani could be considered a sovereign actor for the purpose of formal relations with the Amarr Empire is tricky. CONCORD treaties might come into play. The organizational stricture of the Imperium, the formal structure, corporations and alliances are all subject to CONCORD oversight. I think the point is moot, though. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1962
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:04:51 -
[40] - Quote
Contessa della Solfete wrote:To answer your question, Director Arrendis, whether The Mittani could be considered a sovereign actor for the purpose of formal relations with the Amarr Empire is tricky. CONCORD treaties might come into play. The organizational stricture of the Imperium, the formal structure, corporations and alliances are all subject to CONCORD oversight. I think the point is moot, though.
It likely is moot, but as Goonswarm holds sovereignty under CONCORD's structure, we would be considered a sovereign entity under their criteria. |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:12:02 -
[41] - Quote
But the fact that CONCORD controls that structure and can change it at whim is the sticking point. |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1291
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:16:53 -
[42] - Quote
I think this discussion would be better served in its own thread.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
180
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:18:43 -
[43] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:I think this discussion would be better served in its own thread.
Good call. It's getting a bit heated here. And off topic, too.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8660
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:25:09 -
[44] - Quote
I suppose the basic point remains, however; the Villore Assembly is asking for equal standing to a sovereign group in its treatment, which is to say equal standing to a delegation that could certainly include spokespeople of Federation's government itself. While Soter is perfectly within his rights to request such a thing, it could conceivably be read as an insult to the Federation itself, given that Soter seems to seek a seat at the same table as Roden.
I would suspect that such a request as this is more likely to be granted to a delegation from the Imperial capsuleer organizations, but they've not sough to grandstand in this way: instead, they host a celebration.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1478
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:31:10 -
[45] - Quote
I suggest to all fellow Amarr that you lay this argument to rest and allow the presumptuous Mr. Soter and his followers be ignored by the Empire as he rightly will be.
That said, just in case they do not get ignored, I would like to formally request that the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris be included officially in the coronation procession and that we all get big hats to announced how loyal and special we are to the Empire.
That is all.
Aldrith Ter'neth Newelle
Lord Consort of House Sarum
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
73
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:43:50 -
[46] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:I suggest to all fellow Amarr that you lay this argument to rest and allow the presumptuous Mr. Soter and his followers be ignored by the Empire as he rightly will be.
That said, just in case they do not get ignored, I would like to formally request that the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris be included officially in the coronation procession and that we all get big hats to announced how loyal and special we are to the Empire.
That is all.
Soter had little to no hand in the creation of this delegation. Neither that, nor is the delegation asking for official recognition and announcements of speciality.
This is an era of great change for the Empire. The Empress is setting the first of presumably many precidents. The Federation is slowly warning to the Empire as tensions grow elsewhere. Can you not see this? Such childish remarks are unbecoming of a man of your status. I feel you are well aware of the ramifications and benefits this delegation could provide.
The worst (or best, in your eyes) the Empire politicians could do is simply say "no," after all. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8660
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:49:51 -
[47] - Quote
Mr. Iyhr;
Xun Yu wrote:
...
Resolution VA/2/1
Second Villore Assembly
Sponsors: Julianus Soter
...
...
2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation,
...
Point 2 either means 'the rights as any common group,' or else 'the rights afforded a sovereign delegation.' Given that they are making formal announcements, one should read it as the latter.
Please do take care when attempting to reproach a man of the Lord Consort's standing.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1387
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:52:08 -
[48] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums. Indeed we will, we are not asking the Empire for anything, we are asking the Federal authorities to include members of the Assembly in their delegation. Should the Federal authorities decline our request I suppose we will have to make other arrangements. If they do, then I suppose it's up to the Empire to accept the delegation or not.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
73
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 16:59:49 -
[49] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Please do take care when attempting to reproach a man of the Lord Consort's standing.
I am a Holder of the Divine Mandate. I am no "mister" to be flippantly addressed so. House Iyhr, though troubled, serves God, the Empire, and its peoples.
That being said, I understand now the wording may be a touch difficult to decipher. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1482
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 17:15:40 -
[50] - Quote
Oh, do not worry about me, Ms. Priano, I can take a few rebukes from fellow Amarr who have not yet let the poison of cynicism creep into their veins.
Anyway, whoever drafted this request sent it to the wrong address. As capsuleers, the Villore Assembly is already allowed in Amarr space as an extra-national entity under the jurisdiction of CONCORD law. However, standings, Imperial criminal records, and persona-non-grata lists due to acts against the Empire might still apply if they try to set foot upon Holy Athra, and they really ought not even try. As the Contessa pointed out, people far more important to the Empire will be hogging up the seats in the Imperial Palace and Basilica where the events will take place. No one from the Federation short of the President himself would be allowed within a hundred kilometers of the palace, and the only capsuleers I could think of that would be let in are the Tash-Murkon champions. Not even my wife, Champion of House Sarum and Admiral of PIE, will likely be invited, but the Empress-elect might be feeling generous and allow representatives of her rivals to show up.
Now, having established that the Villore Assembly's attendance of the coronation ceremony proper to be next to impossible, the next best thing would be to attend the military procession in the Amarr system. That is very much possible, and I will likely be leading the Amarr loyalist fleet for the event. Thus they really ought to have sent this request to me or the Praetorian Admirals, as it will be up to us whether or not we'd welcome them in our territory. CONCORD might protect them from unlawful weapons fire, but there is plenty of time to plan a sanctioned war against them if we feel they might present an insult or a threat. Now, I truly doubt we'd deign to do such a thing, but the possibility exists and the courtesy this request represents ought to have been sent to people who could and would actually acknowledge them.
If the Court Chamberlain does indeed respond and invite them, I will stand thoroughly corrected on this matter. But frankly, I simply do not see that happening, and I interpret the attempt to be naive at best and arrogant at worse, as have many other loyalists of the Empire. This is neither surprising nor especially galling coming from Gallente, but it is still enough of an issue that it warrants correcting. I'm sorry to rain on their parade, but it's actually our parade and while Gallente exceptionalism can be cute sometimes, it's really unbecoming. I'll forgive them, however, because I am to busy trying to figure out how to counter a Drifter alpha strike if things come down to that.
Aldrith Ter'neth Newelle
Lord Consort of House Sarum
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
75
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 17:27:40 -
[51] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Oh, do not worry about me, Ms. Priano, I can take a few rebukes from fellow Amarr who have not yet the poison of cynicism creep into their veins.
Anyway...
I rue the day such a thing would happen to me.
Thank you, in any case, for your extended response.
I believe it has been made unfortunately clear how undereducated I am in interstellar politics and the phrasing of such. I do not believe the Assembly was asking for entry into the Coronation its very self, though I did not think to address such things while it were possible. Regardless, I hope there will be more olive branches extended in the future between our Empire and the Federation. |
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 17:32:57 -
[52] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Utari Onzo wrote:We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums. Indeed we will, we are not asking the Empire for anything, we are asking the Federal authorities to include members of the Assembly in their delegation. Should the Federal authorities decline our request I suppose we will have to make other arrangements. If they do, then I suppose it's up to the Empire to accept the delegation or not.
Wow. Then your wording was even more horrible than I originally thought.
2. Requests that the members of this delegation be included as official members in the Gallente delegation.
I fixed it for you. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8662
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 17:41:11 -
[53] - Quote
Ah-- one last note, then, given Syagrius's comment. The resolution isn't specifically addressed to anyone so far as I could see, but the wording of point 2 seemed to indicate a request posted to the Amarr. One doesn't usually request diplomatic credentials from a third party, after all.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1482
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 17:53:48 -
[54] - Quote
Specifically, Ms. Priano, the letter is addressed to the body in charge of overseeing the coronation, that being the Court Chamberlain headed by Pomik Haromi, who is currently the de-facto ruler of the Empire in absence of an Emperor. The Tash-Murkon Family, of course, now also has heavy influence in that sphere as it is their Heiress who is being coronated, as does the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy as they are surely in charge of security. Thus, this request is basically addressed to those four primary bodies which are in charge of vetting potential attendees of the ceremony, even if the actual request was made in a 'to whom it may concern' manner.
That is why it seems so presumptuous, since we Amarr do not even expect to be given the light of day by these bodies, nor would we basically demand their attention in such a manner.
Aldrith Ter'neth Newelle
Lord Consort of House Sarum
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1579
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:13:17 -
[55] - Quote
I, for one, would not presume to guess what the reaction of the Amarr Imperial authorities would be.
However, I can assure the Villore Assembly, that should they request an official recognition in the event of an event being held on Kaztropol that the Assembly would wish to send a delegation to, then I have every confidence that Empress Synthia would ensure that they would be first in line.
For the ritual Reviling of the Heathens, that is.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1963
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:15:31 -
[56] - Quote
That doesn't seem terribly welcoming. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1580
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:26:52 -
[57] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:That doesn't seem terribly welcoming.
Well, they are heathens.
Revile the Heathen, Shun the Unbeliever, Frown most Disapprovingly at Whoever It Is that Keeps Bringing in Boiled Sweets to Church and Sucking them during the Sermon because the Noise is Annoying.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
321
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:32:59 -
[58] - Quote
How amusing it is to see such a fuss being made over something so small as a few words which can easily be replaced. I believe instead of focusing so much energy over something so incredibly pedantic, the overall premise and tone of the resolution should be evaluated. This is a historic moment in the Empire's history, and individuals who claim loyalty to the Federation are attempting to reach out with an olive branch and a hope for better understanding - only to be met with individuals solely focused on a few words of their proposal? ******* pathetic.
In an effort to guide the discussion in the right direction, here are some topics some concerned Amarr may wish to bring up:
- what exactly does the VA delegation hope to gain from this interaction?
- how can this foster a greater sense of mutual understanding?
- is there anything planned to promote the sustainability of these good-will acts, or is this just a one time thing? |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1392
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:44:46 -
[59] - Quote
Not exactly the response we had hoped for. What is strange is we have heard so little from those within the Imperial community who have known about and been supportive of this endeavor.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
641
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 20:23:27 -
[60] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:How amusing it is to see such a fuss being made over something so small as a few words which can easily be replaced.
Entire planets have been razed with just a few words. How amusing it is to see that you think so little of words. |
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 21:21:30 -
[61] - Quote
I'm glad everyone's looking forward to the coronation so much. There's something about huge festivities like this that bring about an urge to come together in most of us, I think.
Xun Yu? In the event that your request is ignored, which is pretty much going to happen and that's sad but let's think of the future? What are your backup plans for the festivities? I've been working on a growing pile of little CATIZ-TASTIC pennants, with glitter on, and I'd be happy to send some along as a gesture of cross-border sisterhood.
Just let me know where VA takes its deliveries! |
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
326
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 22:01:16 -
[62] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:
Entire planets have been razed with just a few words. How amusing it is to see that you think so little of words.
Sure you can keep being pedantic, but I would like to think you can make an actual contribution to the ongoing discussion rather than trying to be a special snowflake or "edgelord", as modern Gallente teenagers like to say.
However, to address your point, please point to the planet in recorded history which has been razed because someone took offense to a few words on a piece of paper written by the planet's population. Don't respond with more useless tripe unless you can come up with a name.
Moving along the discussion... |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6232
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 22:21:38 -
[63] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Korsavius wrote:How amusing it is to see such a fuss being made over something so small as a few words which can easily be replaced. Entire planets have been razed with just a few words. How amusing it is to see that you think so little of words.
You'll have to pardon Korbin, he's Caldari and, as such, places far more weight on deeds than words.
Congratulations to all loyal citizens of the Empire on the conclusion of their galling Inter-Regnum. We wish you all well on what is, after all, a very Amarrian occaision, and hope to see you much refreshed and refocused on the other side of the celebration.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
641
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 22:50:07 -
[64] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:Sure you can keep being pedantic, but I would like to think you can make an actual contribution to the ongoing discussion rather than trying to be a special snowflake or "edgelord", as modern Gallente teenagers like to say.
However, to address your point, please point to the planet in recorded history which has been razed because someone took offense to a few words on a piece of paper written by the planet's population. Don't respond with more useless tripe unless you can come up with a name.
Moving along the discussion...
Maybe I did not mean someone took offense on a few words and wiped out a planet. What I meant that you can order planets raided and destroy them with a few words, such as Starkmanir Prime, or the Matari home planets in Pator, or Caldari Prime. I'm sure you can think of many more. Few words can literally mean the end of worlds. I merely replicated your condescending tone and replied in kind what I found laughable about your "tripe."
In politics especially one should choose their words and actions very carefully, I assume we have already established that.
As for the discussion itself, it is laughable to even think that the Villore Assembly would have any place in the ceremony as such as they request - there are literally thousands of people and organizations more capable and deserving of such a position. They will have to follow the coronation from the furthest of seats in the back like anyone else not important enough to be given something else. All in all, this "resolution" looks to me nothing but trying to appear more important and special than they actually are. To whom? I don't know.
And yes I am well aware of the Assemblys' previous work. Commendable, but commendable enough to attend an event such as this with special privileges? Hardly.
Of course, the future Empress and whoever hands out the invitations are entirely free to prove my suspicions wrong later on. |
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
326
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 23:03:22 -
[65] - Quote
So, again, I'd like to ask if you are actually going to contribute anything relevant to the discussion of the overall tone and content of the resolution itself? You keep falling back upon the offense taken to a few perhaps not adequately chosen words, rather than discussing the content of the overall document at length. There is already enough pages of rhetoric dedicated to addressing this one point. Are you really so bored so as to keep beating a dead horse? Ancestor's choke, the density of some people. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
641
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 23:08:28 -
[66] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:So, again, I'd like to ask if you are actually going to contribute anything relevant to the discussion of the overall tone and content of the resolution itself? You keep falling back upon the offense taken to a few perhaps not adequately chosen words, rather than discussing the content of the overall document at length. There is already enough pages of rhetoric dedicated to addressing this one point. Are you really so bored so as to keep beating a dead horse? Ancestor's choke, the density of some people.
Ok.
I give the tone A+ for effort.
The content a B-. |
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
328
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 00:41:41 -
[67] - Quote
Quote:- what exactly does the VA delegation hope to gain from this interaction?
- how can this foster a greater sense of mutual understanding?
- is there anything planned to promote the sustainability of these good-will acts, or is this just a one time thing?
These issues may be worth discussing or sharing your opinions on. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
873
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 04:24:14 -
[68] - Quote
Dear Taishou Xun Yu, Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly:
In light of the treaties that remain in force between the Federation and the Empire, President Roden's attendance at the funeral of the Late Empress Jamyl I (Blessed be Her Holy Name!), and in the tradition of Amarr hospitality, I would like to invite members of the delegation to a mixer between any Faithful who choose to attend and any Delegates of the VA who choose to attend. The mixer will be on the 28th of September and consist of cocktails and music. Further details TBD.
Cordially and with God's Blessings,
Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6247
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 04:53:45 -
[69] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:So effectively rather then being happy to simply turn up as any other visitor will be allowed on the day, you are asking for special treatment exactly because you're a pressure group? Perhaps Providence should ask to be given special priviledges on the same basis?
We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums.
Didn't you hear, Utari? They sat in committee and they decided that they are important, dammit!
Apparently they found a couple of useful idiots who agreed with them. Frankly I trust Aldrith's opinion.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
643
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:32:07 -
[70] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:Quote:- what exactly does the VA delegation hope to gain from this interaction?
- how can this foster a greater sense of mutual understanding?
- is there anything planned to promote the sustainability of these good-will acts, or is this just a one time thing? These issues may be worth discussing or sharing your opinions on.
Only the VA can actually answer these.
However personally I fail to see how this will in any way foster "a greater sense of mutual understanding" seeing as the assembly only reports to itself and the Federation senate (altough whether or not anyone reads it there is another matter entirely). Mutual understanding implies both parties would benefit from the interaction. Which, by they way, the resolution did not mention, just you.
Likewise I don't even know where you pulled the "good-will acts" from, since the resolution didn't mention such things even in one word. Unless watching a coronation from the sidelines is somehow "a good will act" in itself.
Now lets make one thing straight. I support the Assembly, sort of, I do. I can certainly appreciate their efforts and achievements.
However, did we really need a Villore Assembly resolution on the coronation of the Empress? I could've drafted an equally pompous resolution begging for my corporations place in the coronation (because I'm a capsuleer and I matter, dammit), and I would've been laughed out of the known galaxy.
How this resolution gained such traction in the first place is beyond me. |
Bel Boma
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
129
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 11:49:57 -
[71] - Quote
I look forward to seeing and speaking with the delegation during the many coming events. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
439
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 12:51:01 -
[72] - Quote
Teinyhr, I don't know you except from your posts. However based on them, I think that I like you quite a bit. |
Avio Yaken
Sanxing
2235
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 15:24:48 -
[73] - Quote
God damn, days like this I'm happy my job isn't diplomacy. This entire thread went down quicker than the Elder Fleet.
(.___________________________________________.)/
|
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
704
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:23:26 -
[74] - Quote
Maybe the resolution was worded badly in some parts. The idea behind it - to reach out and aim for good diplomatic relations between Amarr and Gallente - is certainly commendable.
It is sad to see so many people focus on the bad things, the darkness. Especially in the case of the Amarr, who sould've adopted the responsibility to serve the light, to bring it forth and to educate, to illuminate. It always pains me when those that should be on the lights side are rather making this cluster a darker place by multiplying and spreading their bad emotions as well as prejudice and stereotype.
The Scripture says: "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." But beware, you who judges like this, for you are not God, nor alike to him. Your understanding is limited and your judgement easily misplaced. He is perfect - you though, are imperfect.
Therefore, you should rather remind yourself of what Scripture says thereafter: "The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual." You do good to be merciful, benign and righteous and show love in your imperfection! Take these traits and the Emperor as your model. Don't adivse others on their failures first, but bear in mind your own fallability before you speak to them. And when you do, be helpful, show them the way, rather then merely yelling at them that they are on the wrong track. No one ever got onto the straight roads by them being merely decried.
If you want someone to walk the righteous path, don't withdraw from a hand extended! Take the hand in the spirit it's offered, hold it gently and lead them onto path of light. And let your heart be a illuminating candle for them, warm and nurturing.
I for one welcome this initiative of the VA and the spirit in which it is put forth!
|
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
440
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:41:51 -
[75] - Quote
If the Villore Accords had not demanded special treatment, then I doubt anyone would have said anything. If the Villore Accords had approached this endeavor with the humility of guests, they would have been welcomed. If their spirit had been one of friendship, it would have been reciprocated. |
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
711
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 21:19:47 -
[76] - Quote
Can one read a demand for special treatment into the original post? Probably. Does one have to read it into the OP? Most certainly not!
How guests behave differs quite a lot if you look at the Empire and at the Federation. It's easy to complain that the neighbours from the Federation which we have in the members of the VA didn't behave as we expect proper guests to behave, without showing them what we'd expect, really.
The point is: Even if they misbehaved in some ways, that doesn't justify to reciprocate in kind. Two wrongs don't make a right. The right thing is to welcome them despite their failings and help them to better themselves.
The Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man, not to lament the bad state it's in and then reciprocate in kind. No, that's the wrong way. And Amarr should know better. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
645
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 21:34:20 -
[77] - Quote
What the hell are you lot even on about. Who has "wronged" them and in what way? |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
444
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 21:48:41 -
[78] - Quote
I do not know about you, Ms. Mithra, but I phrase my requests to visit much more politely. Rather than announcing that they were forming a delegation and then in the same breath state they expected that delegation to be treated as foreign diplomats and dignitaries, they should have requested an invitation to come. That would have been correct and proper.
"We're coming. Better treat us right. We're very important in the Federation." That is how they came across. And the Amarr rightly pointed out that was the incorrect way to do things. The Villore Accords are the ones that made this issue public with their post. Then they doubled down on their arrogance that they had debated the language and they found it proper.
If someone that you didn't know came to your home and demanded to be let in and that you cook them a proper dinner, I suspect you would take offense to that. I would too. My door will open to any that request invitation, but will not crack to a demand. |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
691
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 21:58:45 -
[79] - Quote
Official Society Press Release
On the most auspicious occasion of the upcoming Coronation of Her Imperial Majesty the Society wishes to extend an invitation to the Villore Assembly Delegation to observe this historic event from a well-situated venue on Amarr Prime with the delegation afforded full diplomatic rights, status, and credentials insofar as they are grantable in my capacity as Chief Diplomat of the Society and under the official recognition and as guests of Dar-al Barakah. We have submitted the appropriate notification with the Ministry of Internal Order.
In this glorious season we have only open arms for all who come in peace to witness the formal crowning of Her Imperial Majesty as Empress and we in particular would most wish for the Villore Assembly's delegates to be our guests.
Peace in our time!
[signed]
Lord Ibrahim (Legatus)
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
|
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
715
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:01:29 -
[80] - Quote
Quote:Resolution VA/2/1
Second Villore Assembly
(...)
2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation, (...)
It's astonishing how easily you misread "request" as "demand", Cpt. Amalath. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
446
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:11:25 -
[81] - Quote
The demand is that they be allowed to come regardless. Gallente citizens do not have any right to step foot on Amarr Prime or any other planet in the Holy Amarr Empire.
Lord Ibrahim's announcement is how this should have happened. |
Julianus Soter
Moira.
Villore Accords
354
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:36:05 -
[82] - Quote
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:Official Society Press Release
On the most auspicious occasion of the upcoming Coronation of Her Imperial Majesty the Society wishes to extend an invitation to the Villore Assembly Delegation to observe this historic event from a well-situated venue on Amarr Prime with the delegation afforded full diplomatic rights, status, and credentials insofar as they are grantable in my capacity as Chief Diplomat of the Society and under the official recognition and as guests of Dar-al Barakah. We have submitted the appropriate notification with the Ministry of Internal Order.
In this glorious season we have only open arms for all who come in peace to witness the formal crowning of Her Imperial Majesty as Empress and we in particular would most wish for the Villore Assembly's delegates to be our guests.
Peace in our time!
[signed]
Lord Ibrahim (Legatus)
As Chairman of the Federation-Empire Relations committee, I gratefully accept the invitation of the Society. Our delegation is extremely eager to attend this historic event and facilitate a new understanding between our peoples.
Regards,
Julianus Soter
Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
|
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
721
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:36:16 -
[83] - Quote
Where in the resolution do you read of any such demand? You seem like a master of eisegesis.
And yes, Lord Ibrahim is to commend for taking an outstretched hand and leading it on the proper path. He's acting like a proper Holder and Amarr should, where others merely complained about formalities. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
446
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:45:18 -
[84] - Quote
Point the first was clearly that they are assembling a delegation to come. Not requesting an invitation for a delegation to come, but that they are coming. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
73
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 22:48:03 -
[85] - Quote
Gosh I'm real excited to see everyone at the coronation and the mixer party! I hope we'll have a lotta fun and I can't wait to see my friends! I'll have to buy a fancy dress again. My last one got shredded bad.
Captain Mithra, I'm still super hyped to visit you and your estate too, when I've returned from planetside leave. I haven't forgotten! Pinky promise. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
420
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 23:02:13 -
[86] - Quote
This has been a difficult conversation to follow. Diplomacy is not something I am suited for, so that may be the impediment to understanding.
Can someone explain this to me?
Xun Yu wrote:These requests have been endorsed by observers from Amarrian organisations...
James Syagrius wrote:Indeed we will, we are not asking the Empire for anything, we are asking the Federal authorities to include members of the Assembly in their delegation...
Is it common to seek assistance from foreigners when petitioning your own government in the Federation?
Again, I am no diplomat, but I imagine here in the Empire this is likely to work against you.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
422
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 23:18:09 -
[87] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:The Scripture says: "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." But beware, you who judges like this, for you are not God, nor alike to him. Your understanding is limited and your judgement easily misplaced. He is perfect - you though, are imperfect.
Therefore, you should rather remind yourself of what Scripture says thereafter: "The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual." You do good to be merciful, benign and righteous and show love in your imperfection! Take these traits and the Emperor as your model. Don't adivse others on their failures first...
You seem to have left out the passages in between, Ms Mithra -
"Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin.
Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder.
Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life."
The Mercy of the Emperor is limitless, true, but it is our duty to Be Careful, Be Watchful, and Be Respectful of the Way.
This announcement rightly, or wrongly, was thought by the Faithful and those outside the Faith alike to be targeted at Amarr. I believe our Brothers and Sisters, and some foreigners it seems, were letting the Villore Assembly know this was not proper decorum.
Of course, I may be mistaken in their motives, I am but an observer to these proceedings.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
830
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 23:31:46 -
[88] - Quote
Mitara Newelle wrote:
This announcement rightly, or wrongly, was thought by the Faithful and those outside the Faith alike to be targeted at Amarr. I believe our Brothers and Sisters, and some foreigners it seems, were letting the Villore Assembly know this was not proper decorum.
I think that my lady has the right of it. The Gallente have brought people together: Minmatar and Amarr all in agreement about their criticism of the Villore Accords. God does work in mysterious ways.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
482
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 23:35:44 -
[89] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Mitara Newelle wrote:
This announcement rightly, or wrongly, was thought by the Faithful and those outside the Faith alike to be targeted at Amarr. I believe our Brothers and Sisters, and some foreigners it seems, were letting the Villore Assembly know this was not proper decorum.
I think that my lady has the right of it. The Gallente have brought people together: Minmatar and Amarr all in agreement about their criticism of the Villore Accords. God does work in mysterious ways.
Who could have guessed it were more egger corporations with overinflated sense of self-worth that would actually usher in the New Age of Peace?
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
830
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:00:37 -
[90] - Quote
What's the old saying: the fastest way to get the right answer on the galnet is to say the wrong answer?
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
159
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:10:33 -
[91] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Minmatar and Amarr all in agreement about their criticism of the Villore Accords.
One Minmatar whose careless aspersing is a matter of debate and disagreement on our shared homeplanet. Athryn Noduri of Ru (Teinyhr) has a valid point or two but the way she chose to make them is considered shameful by some Vherokior subtribes and clans. You're not supposed to turn around and urinate on the people inside your own tent. Care with words is of cultural importance to many Vherokior because of our large involvement in commerce but supporting "our own" is important too.
If Teinyhr really supported the Villore Assembly and our Federal allies, she would have made her objections in private. Her choice to make her objections public and persistent is an act of disrespect for everything the Assembly has done and every person in the Assembly who's trying to make the world a little better.
(This post is going to earn me some flak but in subtribe Lunhis it's acceptable to respond to public bad behavior of this type with public censure.) |
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
729
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:13:22 -
[92] - Quote
Mitara Newelle wrote:You seem to have left out the passages in between, Ms Mithra -
"Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin.
Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder.
Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life."
The Mercy of the Emperor is limitless, true, but it is our duty to Be Careful, Be Watchful, and Be Respectful of the Way.
This announcement rightly, or wrongly, was thought by the Faithful and those outside the Faith alike to be targeted at Amarr. I believe our Brothers and Sisters, and some foreigners it seems, were letting the Villore Assembly know this was not proper decorum.
Of course, I may be mistaken in their motives, I am but an observer to these proceedings.
Lady Newelle,
indeed I left those lines out, knowingly so. You will note: They are addressed to the reader: That is the Amarr faithful. It's your Thought that you're supposed to police first and foremost.
As I said: The pos might have lacked proper - in the eyes of the Amarr and maybe some foreigner - decorum. What I criticised is that many were more than happy to leave it not at merely pointing that out, but even further chastising it and beyond that reading all kinds of impoliteness into the original post, that no one needs to read into it.
All that while making no efforts whatsoever to remedy the situation, to educate or otherwise ameliorate the situation at hand, rather enjoying the failings of their brothers and sisters and even more so enjoying to use this as an opportunity to point out their own superiority. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
830
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:19:10 -
[93] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:(This post is going to earn me some flak but in subtribe Lunhis it's acceptable to respond to public bad behavior of this type with public censure.) You realize that you just justified every post criticizing your original one? I'm not Minmatar, but still.
I think the term is: game on.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
182
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:38:22 -
[94] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Gosh I'm real excited to see everyone at the coronation and the mixer party! I hope we'll have a lotta fun and I can't wait to see my friends! I'll have to buy a fancy dress again. My last one got shredded bad.
Triss, I can cook you up a dress if you'd like. I'm pretty sure I still have your measurements on-file if that last batch of stuff I made for you is any indication. When I'm done with my brief stint planetside would you like to come in to my new tailoring suite? I'd love to help you out for something like this. After all, I do feel somewhat responsible!
What happened to the last one, by the way? Fall into a pit of razors?
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
78
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:53:13 -
[95] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Triss, I can cook you up a dress if you'd like. I'm pretty sure I still have your measurements on-file if that last batch of stuff I made for you is any indication. When I'm done with my brief stint planetside would you like to come in to my new tailoring suite? I'd love to help you out for something like this. After all, I do feel somewhat responsible!
What happened to the last one, by the way? Fall into a pit of razors?
Like?! I'd LOVE it! I'd love to see where you work too! What kinda dress d'ya think would look good? Asymmetrical? Halter top? Fishtail? Uhhhhh, bell bottom?
So I was at a fundraising gala in Voxam to welcome an influx of refugees from the next system over and fundraise to take care of their immediate housing needs when this jokester lad pops a smoke bomb into the floor and slaps poppers under people's feet. No big deal but insteada letting it go I bolt after him because he's an excuse to not have to be there. The kid bolts into the fenced yard of the rich guy next door but didn't pay any mind to the "beware of dogs" sign hangin' off the fence. Long story short, teeth. Lots of sharp teeth. |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
184
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:59:31 -
[96] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Like?! I'd LOVE it! I'd love to see where you work too! What kinda dress d'ya think would look good? Asymmetrical? Halter top? Fishtail? Uhhhhh, bell bottom?
So I was at a fundraising gala in Voxam to welcome an influx of refugees from the next system over and fundraise to take care of their immediate housing needs when this jokester lad pops a smoke bomb into the floor and slaps poppers under people's feet. No big deal but insteada letting it go I bolt after him because he's an excuse to not have to be there. The kid bolts into the fenced yard of the rich guy next door but didn't pay any mind to the "beware of dogs" sign hangin' off the fence. Long story short, teeth. Lots of sharp teeth.
When I take you in to the shop we can test out several different designs and how they'd look on you via some fancy schmancy tech mumbo jumbo I don't really feel like explaining right now. I think a dress that shows off your arms would be best, though. Muscles, man. Muscles.
Also, don't fall into a pit of dogs. That's arguably worse than a pit of razors.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
80
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:03:20 -
[97] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:When I take you in to the shop we can test out several different designs and how they'd look on you via some fancy schmancy tech mumbo jumbo I don't really feel like explaining right now. I think a dress that shows off your arms would be best, though. Muscles, man. Muscles.
Also, don't fall into a pit of dogs. That's arguably worse than a pit of razors.
So like sleeveless? Ok that's the top. But what about the neckline and the shoulders and the bottom? I like high necked dresses like those Caldari ones! And what color? I can't wear so many colors because of my hair. Are there like recommended colors that folk wear to Amarr stuff?
I didn't fall in! I jumped in to stop the dogs from ripping the poor lad into pieces. He didn't deserve that. But then neither did my sad dress! |
Nicoletta Mithra
Tekaima Community of New Eden Pilgrims
732
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:05:10 -
[98] - Quote
If you visit me before getting your new dress done, I'd be more than happy to gift some of our reknowned spidersilk to you. It'll make sure that some dogteeth don't shred it to pieces so easily again. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
81
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:12:36 -
[99] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:If you visit me before getting your new dress done, I'd be more than happy to gift some of our reknowned spidersilk to you. It'll make sure that some dogteeth don't shred it to pieces so easily again.
Gosh though your makeup and jewelry is so pretty and tasteful! Maybe we could go to Charlie's tailoring studio together and you could help give me advice on like what'd be considered right and proper in Amarrian fashions?
Spider silk sounds beautiful! What is it? Is it durable? |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
184
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:15:37 -
[100] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Maybe we could go to Charlie's tailoring studio together and you could help give me advice on like what'd be considered right and proper in Amarrian fashions?
Spider silk sounds beautiful! What is it? Is it durable?
I wouldn't mind hosting you both. Spider silk is extraordinarily strong, and comes from this little creepy weird thing that'll give you nightmares, and it's very, very, very very very very soft. I've not got the chance to use it yet. Maybe soon, hopefully!
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
90
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:28:38 -
[101] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting you both. Spider silk is extraordinarily strong, and comes from this little creepy weird thing that'll give you nightmares, and it's very, very, very very very very soft. I've not got the chance to use it yet. Maybe soon, hopefully!
Ok that doesn't dissuade me. I need to see the creepy weird thing now.
See like ok, Captain Mithra, Charlie, I know that Gallente fashions are considered degenerate elsewhere and even my bestest Amarr friends tell me so. So I want to be tasteful and graceful and fancy like all the Amarr people are. I don't have a whole lotta taste I know. I mostly wear like miniskirts and crop tops and I don't think a day goes by when I'm not wearing a leather jacket. So ya that's my usual and I know it's not appropriate. Should I get a fresh clone too without my piercings and tats? Would that be better received? |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
192
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:33:37 -
[102] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting you both. Spider silk is extraordinarily strong, and comes from this little creepy weird thing that'll give you nightmares, and it's very, very, very very very very soft. I've not got the chance to use it yet. Maybe soon, hopefully!
Ok that doesn't dissuade me. I need to see the creepy weird thing now. See like ok, Captain Mithra, Charlie, I know that Gallente fashions are considered degenerate elsewhere and even my bestest Amarr friends tell me so. So I want to be tasteful and graceful and fancy like all the Amarr people are. I don't have a whole lotta taste I know. I mostly wear like miniskirts and crop tops and I don't think a day goes by when I'm not wearing a leather jacket. So ya that's my usual and I know it's not appropriate. Should I get a fresh clone too without my piercings and tats? Would that be better received?
Personally speaking, I think the point of a mixer is the mixing of the cultures in a way that's respectful and enlightening to both. I don't recommend the punk style you usually rock, but I can help you with a decent length dress that fits your personality as well as looks dazzling and wonderful and aggressive, fitting for the Amarr style of viewing. In fact, you could probably get away with one of those crop-top mini leather jackets on top of a Federation green dress. We'll talk about it. You'll be fun to work with.
You'll probably want to take your piercings out but I know a vendor who I order all my custom stuff from who can probably cook up some piercings just to match your dress and/or for the event. That goes for most of the Federal folks attending, since as it comes to the Amarr, I don't really think they wear anything offensive (in the eyes of Federalistas).
It's a case by case thing. Is Friday good for you? (And you too, Ms. Mithra?)
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
90
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 01:55:55 -
[103] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Personally speaking, I think the point of a mixer is the mixing of the cultures in a way that's respectful and enlightening to both. I don't recommend the punk style you usually rock, but I can help you with a decent length dress that fits your personality as well as looks dazzling and wonderful and aggressive, fitting for the Amarr style of viewing. In fact, you could probably get away with one of those crop-top mini leather jackets on top of a Federation green dress. We'll talk about it. You'll be fun to work with.
You'll probably want to take your piercings out but I know a vendor who I order all my custom stuff from who can probably cook up some piercings just to match your dress and/or for the event. That goes for most of the Federal folks attending, since as it comes to the Amarr, I don't really think they wear anything offensive (in the eyes of Federalistas).
It's a case by case thing. Is Friday good for you? (And you too, Ms. Mithra?)
I dunno it seems like all Gallente fashion is... trashy. At least I always feel like the trashy uncultured one when I'm with my buds. Mostly they don't say it but. I'm not dumb. I see how they look at me.
It's not just gonna be for the mixer though! It's gonna be for all the delegation stuff. Since we're there to be good friends n stuff with the Empire and Amarr shouldn't it just be in Amarr fashion only to show that we like care?
I mean I meant I could get a clone that don't have the holes to begin with. Or the tats. Iunno if I've ever seen an Amarr with these stupid lip piercings.
Friday is totes perf for me! |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
424
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:16:37 -
[104] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Lady Newelle,
indeed I left those lines out, knowingly so. You will note: They are addressed to the reader: That is the Amarr faithful. It's your Thought that you're supposed to police first and foremost.
As I said: The post might have lacked proper - in the eyes of the Amarr and maybe some foreigner - decorum. What I criticised is that many were more than happy to leave it not at merely pointing that out, but even further chastising it and beyond that reading all kinds of impoliteness into the original post, that no one needs to read into it.
All that while making no efforts whatsoever to remedy the situation, to educate or otherwise ameliorate the situation at hand, rather enjoying the failings of their brothers and sisters and even more so enjoying to use this as an opportunity to point out their own superiority.
Ms Mithra, you are a scholar and I am a solider. We were likely instilled with very different emphasis of Scriptures and will disagree on many things. I see no reason to continue this discussion here. You are welcome at Damnidios Para'nashu should you be on Mekhios.
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
68
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:32:39 -
[105] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Personally speaking, I think the point of a mixer is the mixing of the cultures in a way that's respectful and enlightening to both. I don't recommend the punk style you usually rock, but I can help you with a decent length dress that fits your personality as well as looks dazzling and wonderful and aggressive, fitting for the Amarr style of viewing. In fact, you could probably get away with one of those crop-top mini leather jackets on top of a Federation green dress. We'll talk about it. You'll be fun to work with.
You'll probably want to take your piercings out but I know a vendor who I order all my custom stuff from who can probably cook up some piercings just to match your dress and/or for the event. That goes for most of the Federal folks attending, since as it comes to the Amarr, I don't really think they wear anything offensive (in the eyes of Federalistas).
It's a case by case thing. Is Friday good for you? (And you too, Ms. Mithra?) I dunno it seems like all Gallente fashion is... trashy. At least I always feel like the trashy uncultured one when I'm with my buds. Mostly they don't say it but. I'm not dumb. I see how they look at me. It's not just gonna be for the mixer though! It's gonna be for all the delegation stuff. Since we're there to be good friends n stuff with the Empire and Amarr shouldn't it just be in Amarr fashion only to show that we like care? I mean I meant I could get a clone that don't have the holes to begin with. Or the tats. Iunno if I've ever seen an Amarr with these stupid lip piercings. Friday is totes perf for me!
I like your piercings. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
91
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:37:42 -
[106] - Quote
Sammie MacWinters wrote:I like your piercings.
You do? Why?
I just don't think they're real professional anywhere expect my part of the Federation. I don't even see many Gallente with face piercings like this. And I know people think I'm dumb because I have them. |
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
71
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:42:46 -
[107] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:I like your piercings. You do? Why? I just don't think they're real professional anywhere expect my part of the Federation. I don't even see many Gallente with face piercings like this. And I know people think I'm dumb because I have them.
I think they're pretty.
|
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
194
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:59:09 -
[108] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:I like your piercings. You do? Why? I just don't think they're real professional anywhere expect my part of the Federation. I don't even see many Gallente with face piercings like this. And I know people think I'm dumb because I have them.
This is sort of a blanket response to all Federation members as well:
Piercings can be nice. I'm not a huge fan of them, mostly because I like the changes to my face to be resting on my face rather than off it, but when presented well and adjusted properly - just like all fashion - it can be expertly shown off and easily admired. I've known plenty of executive types and even Empire folks who adorn their faces with piercings and it looks fantastic, frankly.
People who judge based off piercings alone need to re-eval themselves. If anything, Triss, the way you talk is the reason, not your piercings! (Kidding.)
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
356
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:01:56 -
[109] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Personally speaking, I think the point of a mixer is the mixing of the cultures in a way that's respectful and enlightening to both. I don't recommend the punk style you usually rock, but I can help you with a decent length dress that fits your personality as well as looks dazzling and wonderful and aggressive, fitting for the Amarr style of viewing. In fact, you could probably get away with one of those crop-top mini leather jackets on top of a Federation green dress. We'll talk about it. You'll be fun to work with.
You'll probably want to take your piercings out but I know a vendor who I order all my custom stuff from who can probably cook up some piercings just to match your dress and/or for the event. That goes for most of the Federal folks attending, since as it comes to the Amarr, I don't really think they wear anything offensive (in the eyes of Federalistas).
It's a case by case thing. Is Friday good for you? (And you too, Ms. Mithra?) I dunno it seems like all Gallente fashion is... trashy. At least I always feel like the trashy uncultured one when I'm with my buds. Mostly they don't say it but. I'm not dumb. I see how they look at me. It's not just gonna be for the mixer though! It's gonna be for all the delegation stuff. Since we're there to be good friends n stuff with the Empire and Amarr shouldn't it just be in Amarr fashion only to show that we like care? I mean I meant I could get a clone that don't have the holes to begin with. Or the tats. Iunno if I've ever seen an Amarr with these stupid lip piercings. Friday is totes perf for me!
Okay, heres how you do faancy. Pick something already decently fashionable. Now lengthen the sleeves, raise the neckline to a collar and make sure it isnt a shirt skirt or something trashy. Then you wanna make it out of super expensive material, Miss Mithra already offered you spidersilk so use rhat. Make it a nice earthen color. And then embroider the sleeves and hems with something that looks nice. In gold thread. And add jewelry.
Bam! Now youre ready to be formal and stuff. Entry level.
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
71
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:02:13 -
[110] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:(Kidding.)
But it is. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
91
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:03:52 -
[111] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:People who judge based off piercings alone need to re-eval themselves. If anything, Triss, the way you talk is the reason, not your piercings! (Kidding.)
That too. But I'm at peace with being judged for the way I talk. I love the place I got this dialect from and tee bee aych I think it sounds friendly and playful even if folk think I'm dumb. I'm prouda it. An' at this point it's super duper hard to not talk like this either so I hope no one at the Amarr places mind too much. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
109
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:10:06 -
[112] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:Okay, heres how you do faancy. Pick something already decently fashionable. Now lengthen the sleeves, raise the neckline to a collar and make sure it isnt a shirt skirt or something trashy. Then you wanna make it out of super expensive material, Miss Mithra already offered you spidersilk so use rhat. Make it a nice earthen color. And then embroider the sleeves and hems with something that looks nice. In gold thread. And add jewelry.
Bam! Now youre ready to be formal and stuff. Entry level.
Ok. Ok, I follow. I like real long sleeves and collars already. They're my thing. And I'm so down with the spider silk. That's a bloomin beautiful name it's got. But earthen colors? Would I look any kind of good in earth tones? I feel like I'd look like literal shite. I'm so used to monochrome.
What kinda jewelry too? There's so much out there. And makeup? What kinda makeup and what styles? Not my dumb raccoon eyes, prolly. |
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
358
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:Okay, heres how you do faancy. Pick something already decently fashionable. Now lengthen the sleeves, raise the neckline to a collar and make sure it isnt a shirt skirt or something trashy. Then you wanna make it out of super expensive material, Miss Mithra already offered you spidersilk so use rhat. Make it a nice earthen color. And then embroider the sleeves and hems with something that looks nice. In gold thread. And add jewelry.
Bam! Now youre ready to be formal and stuff. Entry level.
Ok. Ok, I follow. I like real long sleeves and collars already. They're my thing. And I'm so down with the spider silk. That's a bloomin beautiful name it's got. But earthen colors? Would I look any kind of good in earth tones? I feel like I'd look like literal shite. I'm so used to monochrome. What kinda jewelry too? There's so much out there. And makeup? What kinda makeup and what styles? Not my dumb raccoon eyes, prolly.
Earthen shades of browns and greens and yellowa are warming and welcoming. You want to make yourself appear inviting ti the casual conversationist. Jewelry obviius gold becauae its the best. Use a few pieces that compliment the outfit but aren't particularly gaudy. And have one nice pendant or brooch with.a big blue or purple gem. |
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
75
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:21:16 -
[114] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:Okay, heres how you do faancy. Pick something already decently fashionable. Now lengthen the sleeves, raise the neckline to a collar and make sure it isnt a shirt skirt or something trashy. Then you wanna make it out of super expensive material, Miss Mithra already offered you spidersilk so use rhat. Make it a nice earthen color. And then embroider the sleeves and hems with something that looks nice. In gold thread. And add jewelry.
Bam! Now youre ready to be formal and stuff. Entry level.
Ok. Ok, I follow. I like real long sleeves and collars already. They're my thing. And I'm so down with the spider silk. That's a bloomin beautiful name it's got. But earthen colors? Would I look any kind of good in earth tones? I feel like I'd look like literal shite. I'm so used to monochrome. What kinda jewelry too? There's so much out there. And makeup? What kinda makeup and what styles? Not my dumb raccoon eyes, prolly.
VeeVee taught me how to do eyeliner! You should try that! |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
404 Alliance Not Found
524
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:23:15 -
[115] - Quote
Yet again another announcement begins to devolve into a 'chat' about individualistic, nonsensical whims.
Nonsense aside, I trust the Amarr are wary about anything dealing with Soter, rightly so. Considering his past overt views of your people and their allies.
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
75
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:25:43 -
[116] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Yet again another announcement begins to devolve into a 'chat' about individualistic, nonsensical whims.
Nonsense aside, I trust the Amarr are wary about anything dealing with Soter, rightly so. Considering his past overt views of your people and their allies.
We're having a nice conversation. Go away. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
111
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:28:51 -
[117] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:Earthen shades of browns and greens and yellowa are warming and welcoming. You want to make yourself appear inviting ti the casual conversationist. Jewelry obviius gold becauae its the best. Use a few pieces that compliment the outfit but aren't particularly gaudy. And have one nice pendant or brooch with.a big blue or purple gem.
Ok, I'm getting this. So like would green work with my hair? I think my hair gets in the way a lot. And should I use earth tones for my makeup too?
Small gold chains for the jewelry? Maaaaybe maybe some bangles? Ok. Ok, I think I feel you. Maybe even some bigger chandelier earrings with a matching gem for the necklace.
Cheers for the help by the by. 'S real tasteful and subtle stuff here. Usually wasted on me. Preciate you takin your time to help me and explain things to me.
Sammie MacWinters wrote:
VeeVee taught me how to do eyeliner! You should try that!
Iunno if you've looked at me but I've got so much eyeliner on so thickly that it looks like I've got black eyes from bruises. |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
404 Alliance Not Found
524
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:30:06 -
[118] - Quote
Sammie MacWinters wrote:We're having a nice conversation. Go away.
About something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I believe the term is called derailing.
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
76
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:32:23 -
[119] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Iunno if you've looked at me but I've got so much eyeliner on so thickly that it looks like I've got black eyes from bruises.
I thought that was called eye shadow. |
Elanion
36
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:32:24 -
[120] - Quote
Thread was good and derailed by the time the fashion discussion started.
RIP YC111-115 GÇó "The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
87
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:37:20 -
[121] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:We're having a nice conversation. Go away. About something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I believe the term is called derailing.
Elanion wrote: Thread was good and derailed by the time the fashion discussion started.
We're talking about proper dress for the delegation. This is very much on topic.
If anything, we've rerailed it. |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
208
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:37:27 -
[122] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:We're having a nice conversation. Go away. About something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I believe the term is called derailing.
I think the main thing you're unfortunately missing is that the bulk and the beef of this thread has long since passed wherein people were complaining and whinging about a single tiny itty bitty wording error and latching on to it ("Requesting? NO, THAT MEANS DEMANDING") and otherwise. While this discussion is a touch spotty with regards to the OP content, it's very much an on-topic inquiry into the dress code of the mixer that will take place after the coronation in addition to some interesting insights in Federal/Empire differences! It's really neat stuff.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Ria Nieyli
46014
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:47:30 -
[123] - Quote
Do keep in mind that lipstick can be considered Heresy in some parts of Empire.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
87
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:52:22 -
[124] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Do keep in mind that lipstick can be considered Heresy in some parts of Empire.
Which only applies to those of the faith or of the Empire. |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
113
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 03:55:16 -
[125] - Quote
Sammie MacWinters wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Do keep in mind that lipstick can be considered Heresy in some parts of Empire. Which only applies to those of the faith or of the Empire.
Noooo see this is what I've been saying. As a diplomatic delegation we want to be polite and respect local customs. I won't wear lipstick. Is lip gloss illegal? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6263
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 04:05:56 -
[126] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:We're having a nice conversation. Go away. About something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I believe the term is called derailing.
Now, now John. Don't tell me it hasn't been illuminating to see which Amarr were kissing up to the Feddies? It seems we can trust Lady Newelle and House, at least.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1980
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 04:30:54 -
[127] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:indeed I left those lines out, knowingly so. You will note: They are addressed to the reader: That is the Amarr faithful.
Sincere question here:
Wouldn't all of the verses be addressed to the reader? I mean, that's the point of having them read it, no?
|
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
363
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 04:32:06 -
[128] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Do keep in mind that lipstick can be considered Heresy in some parts of Empire.
Only if it's absolutely terribly applied and/or totally unflattering to the wearer. Fashion crimes are truly heretical. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2235
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 04:50:34 -
[129] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:Sammie MacWinters wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Do keep in mind that lipstick can be considered Heresy in some parts of Empire. Which only applies to those of the faith or of the Empire. Noooo see this is what I've been saying. As a diplomatic delegation we want to be polite and respect local customs. I won't wear lipstick. Is lip gloss illegal?
Ah-- Triss? Joking aside, I'm pretty sure this is a straight-up "no." Lipstick's not a problem either. Caldari sensibilities might consider it decadent in places, but Amarr tend to see aesthetics as functional and practical. Why would God's kingdom in this world insist on looking utilitarian? Even an Amarrian battleship serves a religious function, after all.
My use of cosmetics is pretty sparing by Amarrian standards, but I do use a little. It's never gotten me in any trouble at all. |
Ria Nieyli
46014
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 05:09:26 -
[130] - Quote
Oh, I'm sure lipstick will be completely fine in a meeting of high order.
Just don't go wearing it on some Ammatar planets. Or makeup. Or have tattoos. Witchcraft trials are still a thing in some places. Come to think of it, being a capsuleer would qualify you to be burnt at the stake too.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
89
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 05:15:25 -
[131] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Oh, I'm sure lipstick will be completely fine in a meeting of high order.
Just don't go wearing it on some Ammatar planets. Or makeup. Or have tattoos. Witchcraft trials are still a thing in some places. Come to think of it, being a capsuleer would qualify you to be burnt at the stake too.
These sound like backwater planets. |
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
365
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 06:16:19 -
[132] - Quote
Sammie MacWinters wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Oh, I'm sure lipstick will be completely fine in a meeting of high order.
Just don't go wearing it on some Ammatar planets. Or makeup. Or have tattoos. Witchcraft trials are still a thing in some places. Come to think of it, being a capsuleer would qualify you to be burnt at the stake too. These sound like backwater planets.
It sounds like total nonsense from someone who has never set foot in the Mandate. |
Ria Nieyli
46014
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 06:32:20 -
[133] - Quote
Oh, but I have been. It's the unique cultural juxtaposition of the region that has brought oddities such as this one forward.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2236
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 06:53:33 -
[134] - Quote
... well, it's a big Empire, and capsuleers aren't well-liked in a lot of places.
But ... really? It seems pretty unlikely that even isolated communities would develop views like that about things that are hallmarks of mainstream Amarrian society. Including the Empress.
Var? Ms. Kernher? If you're monitoring at all-- have you ever heard of such a thing? |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
645
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 09:08:21 -
[135] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Minmatar and Amarr all in agreement about their criticism of the Villore Accords. One Minmatar whose careless aspersing is a matter of debate and disagreement on our shared homeplanet. Athryn Noduri of Ru (Teinyhr) has a valid point or two but the way she chose to make them is considered shameful by some Vherokior subtribes and clans. You're not supposed to turn around and urinate on the people inside your own tent. Care with words is of cultural importance to many Vherokior because of our large involvement in commerce but supporting "our own" is important too. If Teinyhr really supported the Villore Assembly and our Federal allies, she would have made her objections in private. Her choice to make her objections public and persistent is an act of disrespect for everything the Assembly has done and every person in the Assembly who's trying to make the world a little better. (This post is going to earn me some flak but in subtribe Lunhis it's acceptable to respond to public bad behavior of this type with public censure.)
One: I never claimed to be the spokesperson of the Minmatar, or my Tribe, or even my clan. I have only expressed MY views, please do point where I have done otherwise. While yes, what I do can be counted as acting in the name of my family and clan and to some extent my tribe, I have distanced myself quite a bit from day-to-day affairs with the Clan. They're free to cut any lingering ties with me if they so choose and consider me unworthy to stand with them. However until they do, I suggest you do not lecture me or my Clan on anything.
Two: The Villore Assembly are not "my own." I wasn't aware that saying I respect them in a way made me somehow affiliated with them - I do not affiliate with them in any way besides from silent and sometimes vocal support.
Three: I have no idea what I've done to **** you off this much, or indeed most of the people in this thread. You and many other people seem to act like some terrible insults have been thrown around, while most that has or had been done at that point was to tell them to check themselves before they wreck themselves and tone down their ego a bit.
Four: You got any complaints with me, then involve me, not the people behind me. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
832
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 09:57:45 -
[136] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Now, now John. Don't tell me it hasn't been illuminating to see which Amarr were kissing up to the Feddies? It seems we can trust Lady Newelle and House, at least. I still sing 'And Bombard Gallente Prime' in the shower sometimes. Though I do omit the refrain. I am sure you can understand why.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
91
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 10:01:58 -
[137] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Now, now John. Don't tell me it hasn't been illuminating to see which Amarr were kissing up to the Feddies? It seems we can trust Lady Newelle and House, at least. I still sing 'And Bombard Gallente Prime' in the shower sometimes. Though I do omit the refrain. I am sure you can understand why.
That's an inappropriate comment to make in a thread about fostering positive relations.
Keep it to yourself. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
832
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 10:27:45 -
[138] - Quote
It's a catchy tune. Maybe I'll make a thread to try and get all the verses collected. I've forgotten several.
Actually most of the songs I learned a girl were catchy: 'Napalm Sticks to Frogs,' 'All I Ever Wanna See . . .' and 'Sniper Wonderland' are tunes I still remember today.
Whatever else happened after, my time at the CNM Academy for Girls is something I will always remember fondly. The songs and ditties were great, almost as fun as the weapons training. Got to keep fourteen year old girls focused somehow, right?
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
William Danneskjold
32
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 10:52:03 -
[139] - Quote
The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 10:55:16 -
[140] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir.
We just happen to have guns. Very big guns.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
William Danneskjold
32
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 11:08:52 -
[141] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir. We just happen to have guns. Very big guns.
Most unfortunate for the betterment of mankind.
I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them. It is absolutely pathetic that so many on the Amarr side are attempting to burn this bridge because of what is ultimately a meaningless gesture to the Empire, as only a handful here have even been formally recognized by that entity in the first place, yet purport to represent its interests.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Sammie MacWinters
P.C.U. Croatoa
92
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 11:10:30 -
[142] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir. We just happen to have guns. Very big guns. Most unfortunate for the betterment of mankind. I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them. It is absolutely pathetic that so many on the Amarr side are attempting to burn this bridge because of what is ultimately a meaningless gesture to the Empire, as only a handful here have even been formally recognized by that entity in the first place, yet purport to represent its interests.
I just want to talk about the dress code for the mixer. Is that so bad? |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1394
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 11:54:56 -
[143] - Quote
Sammie MacWinters wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir. We just happen to have guns. Very big guns. Most unfortunate for the betterment of mankind. I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them. It is absolutely pathetic that so many on the Amarr side are attempting to burn this bridge because of what is ultimately a meaningless gesture to the Empire, as only a handful here have even been formally recognized by that entity in the first place, yet purport to represent its interests. I just want to talk about the dress code for the mixer. Is that so bad?
It's very bad. Talks of fashion has triggered riots before.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
646
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:03:21 -
[144] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:
I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them.
Talking about giving undue importance to little things, whoa there bud. |
William Danneskjold
32
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:07:54 -
[145] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:
I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them.
Talking about giving undue importance to little things, whoa there bud.
Depends on how you define 'little' and to whom. To the Empires, they don't give two ***** about what we do, so what's it really matter?
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
648
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:41:06 -
[146] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:Teinyhr wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:
I applaud those few in the Amarr community and the Federation community looking to build bridges instead of burning them.
Talking about giving undue importance to little things, whoa there bud. Depends on how you define 'little' and to whom. To the Empires, they don't give two ***** about what we do, so what's it really matter?
Well for one thing I considered this whole thing a very very minor event in galactic politics until, as you put it, a bunch of people started bleating about how terrible everyone is for pointing out obvious flaws in it and not agreeing with members of the Assembly 100%. Really. This whole announcement, in the end, served absolutely no purpose whatsoever, other than to a few people to toot their own horn. And when they got called out for it, a ruckus erupted.
Because, as stated, this is resolution, if we're still talking about that and not cocktail parties, had nothing to do with building bridges, at least not from both sides, it was decidedly single sided. Read the resolution again and tell me how you came to the conclusion it is helping to build Amarr-Gallente relations in any way? |
William Danneskjold
32
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:51:26 -
[147] - Quote
Easily. Individuals on the Amarr side willing to look past the one-sided request of the Federation boys and girls to their own government, and extend a hand, despite the Accord's attempt at unilaterally inviting themselves.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6268
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 13:48:03 -
[148] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:Easily. Individuals on the Amarr side willing to look past the one-sided request of the Federation boys and girls to their own government, and extend a hand, despite the Accord's attempt at unilaterally inviting themselves.
Now tell me why I wouldn't want to put a fork in that?
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1988
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 15:49:44 -
[149] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Read the resolution again and tell me how you came to the conclusion it is helping to build Amarr-Gallente relations in any way?
William Danneskjold wrote:Easily. Individuals on the Amarr side willing to look past the one-sided request of the Federation boys and girls to their own government, and extend a hand, despite the Accord's attempt at unilaterally inviting themselves.
But those individuals on the Amarr side aren't in the resolution she asked you about. They're in the reaction to the resolution that you're excoriating. How can an entity like the Federation, or any of its representatives, or anyone hoping to be its representatives, espouse a position of 'shut up and let only one group answer'? Wouldn't the very principles of the Federation demand that the negative responses be heard as well? That all of those among the Amarr who choose to stand up and be counted on this issue be respected for that, and praised for it, even if others disagree with the things they say?
So, to put the question to you again: How did you come to the conclusion that the resolution, not the responses to it, are helping to build Amarr-Gallente relations?
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Now tell me why I wouldn't want to put a fork in that?
Because you should always use a spoon. It's dull. It hurts more. |
William Danneskjold
36
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 16:24:57 -
[150] - Quote
My conclusion is that the bridge building comes from people willing to discuss, on both sides, and meet in the middle. I'm not talking about the people who have rational opposition as being petty and burning bridges. I'm talking strictly about people who came in, mouths frothing and firing off split-second responses.
And as I already said earlier, the whole thing is silly anyway, because its unlikely anyone will give a rat's ass what we say or do up here in space and on the Summit.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1988
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 16:37:42 -
[151] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:My conclusion is that the bridge building comes from people willing to discuss, on both sides, and meet in the middle. I'm not talking about the people who have rational opposition as being petty and burning bridges. I'm talking strictly about people who came in, mouths frothing and firing off split-second responses.
And as I already said earlier, the whole thing is silly anyway, because its unlikely anyone will give a rat's ass what we say or do up here in space and on the Summit.
Capsuleers tend to be people of record. Often, despite our best efforts, we become celebrities of a sort. Our opinions help shape public opinion among the baseliners. Especially in a place like the Federation, that can have significant impact, indeed.
Those 'frothing' and 'split-second' responses you denigrate have one very powerful virtue in their favor: honesty. They are sincere responses. They are honest, guileless, unfiltered snapshots of reaction - and that reaction will have its mirror among the non-capsuleer populace, as well, including the bureaucrats, politicians, and high-ranking diplomatic and administrative functionaries of the Amarr Empire.
People who take their time to respond will be more measured, more polite, more politic in their replies... but those who do not will always be more honest. If they say it, others are thinking it. It's better to have it said, in the open, where people can understand the concerns and take steps to address them, than it is to leave those things unsaid, and leave yourself open to walking into a room of smiling enemies, each with a hidden grievance... and a hidden knife. |
Silen Serine
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 16:55:37 -
[152] - Quote
Xun Yu wrote:(...)
the Federal-Imperial Relations Committee (FED-IMP)
(...)
Out of curiosity, does this body intend to publish any documentation subsequent to the coronation dialogues, supplementary to the Assembly's full report to the Senate? |
Tressith Sefira
Sanxing
123
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 17:13:49 -
[153] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Ah-- Triss? Joking aside, I'm pretty sure this is a straight-up "no." Lipstick's not a problem either. Caldari sensibilities might consider it decadent in places, but Amarr tend to see aesthetics as functional and practical. Why would God's kingdom in this world insist on looking utilitarian? Even an Amarrian battleship serves a religious function, after all.
My use of cosmetics is pretty sparing by Amarrian standards, but I do use a little. It's never gotten me in any trouble at all.
Ok, that makes wayyy more sense than the alternative. I had misgivings.
So I should definitely aim for a more minimalist style? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2810
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 17:53:57 -
[154] - Quote
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:I do not know about you, Ms. Mithra, but I phrase my requests to visit much more politely. Rather than announcing that they were forming a delegation and then in the same breath state they expected that delegation to be treated as foreign diplomats and dignitaries, they should have requested an invitation to come. That would have been correct and proper.
"We're coming. Better treat us right. We're very important in the Federation." That is how they came across. And the Amarr rightly pointed out that was the incorrect way to do things. The Villore Accords are the ones that made this issue public with their post. Then they doubled down on their arrogance that they had debated the language and they found it proper.
If someone that you didn't know came to your home and demanded to be let in and that you cook them a proper dinner, I suspect you would take offense to that. I would too. My door will open to any that request invitation, but will not crack to a demand.
Gallente are well known for disrespectful behavior like that to other cultures.
Well, I can't tell our Imperial allies what to do, but I can tell what happened to us. Twice gallente offered us their hand with 'diplomatic' approach, and twice they backstabbed us with their other hand.
How do you think, how many Noirs they still have? How many of them would call an Imperial citizen evil just for having slaves?...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
William Danneskjold
38
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 18:39:44 -
[155] - Quote
The solution has become clear to me. We need to construct a second assembly. The Villore Assembly General Investigation for Notoriety Assembly for analyzing their things. That way we can make sure they are within certain guidelines to keep the cluster happy.
I volunteer to do all the administrative overhead.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Xadiran
Moira.
Villore Accords
68
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:06:40 -
[156] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:The amount of petty bullshit in the thread is quite frankly appalling and disgusting. I'm forever reminded that capsuleers are not, as the training would claim, the top .00001% of society's intelligent, but are instead a group of immature children bleating in an abattoir.
Thank you
Consider yourself my favorite person on the IGS. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2245
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:38:29 -
[157] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:Easily. Individuals on the Amarr side willing to look past the one-sided request of the Federation boys and girls to their own government, and extend a hand, despite the Accord's attempt at unilaterally inviting themselves. Now tell me why I wouldn't want to put a fork in that?
Well, the Federation and Empire aren't exactly natural allies, despite certain similarities, Pieter. The Empire's not going to take the Federation's side against the State. They're both fundamentally imperialist powers. That makes them natural enemies-- rivals at the very least. The Empire siding with the Federation is even less likely than the State joining forces with the Minmatar Republic.
That's not what's at stake.
What if we could go back to the way things were, before Caldari Prime, before the Elder Fleet? The "Pendulum War" serves as a pressure valve, but, do you really want to stop us getting the pressure back down? Do you want this war to go on forever? Is the only acceptable ending, to you, total victory?
It's never going to happen. And if the Empires did enter a state of total war, there's no guarantee the Caldari would even survive.
Capsuleers being diplomatic, reaching across national lines ... we're not real diplomats. But so what?
I know how important the State is to you, but, I don't have a country anymore, Pieter. I know so much about Achura, but, I can't even remember what it looks like.
And with the Drifters, here, now--
I'd rather this whole war ended. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
837
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 20:14:43 -
[158] - Quote
Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
William Danneskjold
47
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 22:24:22 -
[159] - Quote
Nevermind!
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Julianus Soter
Moira.
Villore Accords
362
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 00:08:36 -
[160] - Quote
Silen Serine wrote:Xun Yu wrote:(...)
the Federal-Imperial Relations Committee (FED-IMP)
(...) Out of curiosity, does this body intend to publish any documentation subsequent to the coronation dialogues, supplementary to the Assembly's full report to the Senate?
Yes, we will be providing a full report of our attendance and various happenings of note. Thank you for your interest.
Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1415
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 01:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
Privateer!
Spirits above! It's like none of you knew of something called 'sponsored piracy'!
By the way, I won't be attending this week's Drifter Ops. Something planetside and urgent cropped up and requires my attention.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
839
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 01:58:38 -
[162] - Quote
Well damn. There goes my attempt to build bridges.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1415
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 02:16:09 -
[163] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Well damn. There goes my attempt to build bridges.
You are still good person, even though you can be very scary-passionate at times.
I will attend the next 0200 Drifter Ops. Should be nothing urgent then.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
707
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 06:49:04 -
[164] - Quote
Maria Daphiti wrote:Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Conservative Amarr BuddyGäó wrote:"I support it. The VA has no small amount of power and resources, and they do represent in no small part the hopes, goals, and intent of the Federation. I have not seen a capsuleer organization have a better working, more effective relationship with their faction than that of the Assembly." PIE has a long and proud history of working with the Empire from the very beginning, to Fabricator General Ascentior's and Lieutenant Samira Kernher's leadership during the T3 destroyer research race, to Lady Admiral Newelle's leadership of Team Sarum in the trials. http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Praetoria_Imperialis_Excubitoris
This complex really does not suit PIE. Any man who has to declare himself king is no king.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2019
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 07:03:16 -
[165] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Any man who has to declare himself king is no king.
Ah, but that's how kingdoms are made... conquer, then declare yourself king.
|
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
701
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 07:39:22 -
[166] - Quote
Do it right and they will themselves declare you king.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
|
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy
RED University
86
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 11:54:46 -
[167] - Quote
Purity of the Throne 
Purity of the Throne
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
847
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 13:26:07 -
[168] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:You are still good person, even though you can be very scary-passionate at times. I like this description: scary-passionate.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2815
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:33:54 -
[169] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it.
He is enemy of both Amarr Empire and Caldari State. He is not just 'Federal citizen', he is a member of a corporation that actively attacks both Amarr Empire and Caldari State - FDU. They are hunted down not by us, but even by Imperial Navy fleet in every Amarr high security space disregarding his security status and his personal standing to Amarr Empire.
An enemy is an enemy.
Besides that I would like to remind, that Elmund Egivand personally have been spreading propaganda about Caldari pilots on this exact forum and lies multiple times.
Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:51:48 -
[170] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Elmund Egivand is Gallente. (I think. I know ethnically he's Sebiestor, but he's in the FDU and seems to be a Federal citizen in the same way that I am Amarr.) He's also a stand up guy, a good pilot, and fights Drifters with us. I would suggest that the Gallente that actually want better ties with the Empire grab a ship, get in fleet, and show it. He is enemy of both Amarr Empire and Caldari State. He is not just 'Federal citizen', he is a member of a corporation that actively attacks both Amarr Empire and Caldari State - FDU. They are hunted down not by us, but even by Imperial Navy fleet in every Amarr high security space disregarding his security status and his personal standing to Amarr Empire. An enemy is an enemy. Besides that I would like to remind, that Elmund Egivand personally have been spreading propaganda about Caldari pilots on this exact forum and lies multiple times. Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
I am smirking. I am smirking right now.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2023
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:52:03 -
[171] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evocatus Alizabeth, I would like to ask you in future to not reference this person as a good guy. I can bring proofs of his lies, if a word of Caldari officer won't be enough for you.
Welcome to 'different people have different priorities', Commander. Alizabeth wages a war against and enemy far more dangerous than any human empire has shown itself to be. They've had a year to build up, largely unmolested, from a point where they were already building a staggeringly huge fleet in a very short amount of time. Remember, Tukoss's last broadcast didn't talk about the hundred vessels we saw at Safizon, but hundreds of them, with more arriving throughout the recording.
Hundreds. Fourteen months ago. How many thousands are there now?
Alizabeth's war is bigger than your war, Commander. She cannot afford petty matters like 'politics' to atrophy her strength. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2816
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 18:35:00 -
[172] - Quote
That's not "my" war, Arrendiot.
I fight the war that the Caldari State and Amarr Empire are fighting agianst the Federation and Republic, the war that involves using both capsuleer and baseline Navy vessels, with fights going on both in space and on planets. The life looks calm in safety of high security systems... yet. But you shall see yourself what's going on in the warzone and on planets there. That's not your sandbox games about wars between nullsec barons.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2043
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:01:01 -
[173] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:That's not "my" war, Arrendiot.
It's the only war you care about, Commander, based on your own statements and obsessions.
But fine: The war she fights is larger than the war you fight. She has no time for your petty politics, just as I will no longer respond to your empty and tired attempts to insult me. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:15:17 -
[174] - Quote
I'm not sure it's larger.
It's definitely scarier. The power imbalance is ...
... there. Very much there.
(Though really it's hard to even tell how strong the Drifters really are. We might be doing quite a lot. We might be whistling in a hurricane.) |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8680
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:32:53 -
[175] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:I'm not sure it's larger.
It's definitely scarier. The power imbalance is ...
... there. Very much there.
(Though really it's hard to even tell how strong the Drifters really are. We might be doing quite a lot. We might be whistling in a hurricane.)
At this point, what concerns me is that we still don't know their objectives, or know the extent of their infrastructure. We know that the Hives are massive constructions, and the Hive systems we know are the central point of their salvage operations. But where did the Incursion fleets come from? The wormholes that they came through for those were impassible to us. Did they stage in shielded or concealed locations in the Hive systems we know, or are there more? Could there be an actual Drifter empire, and these places we raid are merely the outlying fortifications, as their names imply?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2044
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:42:23 -
[176] - Quote
At the risk of being depressing, Ms. Jenneth - within six months of their first sighting, they had hundreds of battleships. When Seraph was destroyed, there was not a single Hikanta-type present. Now, in a very good week, perhaps fifteen Drifters are killed by the expedition teams - eight to ten seems to be more of a steady average, and even that might be on the high side.
Even without assuming any production capabilities at all - which seems a bit ridiculous, at best - we'd be looking at six months to a year of constant, focused work to deal with the lowest possible estimates for what was shown in that recording. We can produce battleship-sized vessels at a prodigious rate, even in a small starbase. Their engineering technology is undeniably superior. There's no reason to believe they haven't been constructing more. Even at an extremely conservative rate of 3 hulls per day, killing ten a week (as a high average rate) means only slowing their growth by 40%.
What we're doing is learning. But as I've said in the other thread, we need to understand how we can scale our activities upward. If we don't... they only need to put a fifth of what we've already seen on the field to guarantee no survivors with what we're using now. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:08:55 -
[177] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:At the risk of being depressing, Ms. Jenneth - within six months of their first sighting, they had hundreds of battleships. When Seraph was destroyed, there was not a single Hikanta-type present. Now, in a very good week, perhaps fifteen Drifters are killed by the expedition teams - eight to ten seems to be more of a steady average, and even that might be on the high side.
Even without assuming any production capabilities at all - which seems a bit ridiculous, at best - we'd be looking at six months to a year of constant, focused work to deal with the lowest possible estimates for what was shown in that recording. We can produce battleship-sized vessels at a prodigious rate, even in a small starbase. Their engineering technology is undeniably superior. There's no reason to believe they haven't been constructing more. Even at an extremely conservative rate of 3 hulls per day, killing ten a week (as a high average rate) means only slowing their growth by 40%.
What we're doing is learning. But as I've said in the other thread, we need to understand how we can scale our activities upward. If we don't... they only need to put a fifth of what we've already seen on the field to guarantee no survivors with what we're using now.
So-- that's true, but it's also not necessarily what I was talking about. I mean, if the focus is really on massed fleets, you're clearly correct, but-- what if the Drifters aren't really building many more ships? I mean, that I know of, we've never seen a Hikanta outside of a Hive chamber at all.
(Also, I think fifteen is a REALLY good run. I think the average is more like five, counting the Hikanta, especially recently.)
The thing is, they also haven't been bulking up their patrols or defenses at all, which suggests that either they're stockpiling them somewhere to prepare for a truly terrifying wave of invasions or their focus is on something else.
(Or they're suffering a production bottleneck we don't face. Biomass, maybe?)
The idea that worries me more is that they're not coming at us where we're strong, but trying something else. We don't know what the Nexuses are or what they're for, but we know that the Elements we've been recovering mess with people's heads.
What if a Nexus is really a broacast array, meant to project Element-like qualities into other places and things?
or,
What if all the Hives themselve possess Elemental properties, and the Nexuses (stargate-based phenomena as they seem to be) are the place where these cosmic Elements are joined, to create a multi-system analogue to a Coalesced Element? What would you use something like that for?
or,
What if they're just plain charging a massive weapon, preparing to trigger a supernova-like event in the heart of New Eden?
or,
What if they're trying to suppress the phenomena that make the Eve Gate impassible?
We don't even know for sure whether we're fighting the right kind of war. But they won't talk to us to explain themselves, and it's not clear how else we could interfere with them, so.... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2044
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:13:43 -
[178] - Quote
So we focus on what we can, and we keep trying to learn. Most of those possibilities are things we wouldn't even know how to prevent, right now. They're things we don't even know they have the capacity to threaten us with, or what form that might take. So we really can't prepare for those potential threats.
We know they have ships. We know they have a lot of ships. So we can at least prepare for that possibility. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2270
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:15:51 -
[179] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:So we focus on what we can, and we keep trying to learn. Most of those possibilities are things we wouldn't even know how to prevent, right now. They're things we don't even know they have the capacity to threaten us with, or what form that might take. So we really can't prepare for those potential threats.
We know they have ships. We know they have a lot of ships. So we can at least prepare for that possibility.
Exactly. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
859
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 16:56:09 -
[180] - Quote
In the past two days, SFRIM, along with the allies of PIE and TYRIN, have killed thirty-two Drifter battleships. I intend to do everything I can do to make that number increa
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
Jin'taan
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 17:42:30 -
[181] - Quote
Whilst I am somewhat late to this discussion, I will point out that, as haughty, arrogant, or otherwise distateful many members may find the request of the Villore Assembly, the ultimate decision simply lays with the Empire and her Diplomatic Corps. Should they feel the works of the VA would award them such recognition, I would hope no loyal subject of the Empire would broke argument, and surely would not stoop to the level of attacking guests of the Empire. Equally, if they are refused, I imagine the VA would understand, given that they are a capsuleer organisation, and - should what they say ring true - as a diplomatic group, graciously accept their status as normal guests of the ceremony. Simply put, I struggle to see why the hell you all give a damn. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 17:50:53 -
[182] - Quote
I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that? |
William Danneskjold
66
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 17:55:15 -
[183] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that?
Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
I forgot to respond earlier.
I find there to be two brands of honest. You go to a piano recital. The pianist is not good. You have a man in the crowd, who screams "YOU SUCK" to the pianist. The pianist is told he sucks, and has no way to improve it.
You have another man who says after, "Sir, your piano playing is not good. Here is what's wrong with it, and how to improve."
Many in this thread have offered the latter, however, there was a spread of the former. The latter is honest, open, and constructive. The former is closing, destructive, and helps nobody except the poster's ego.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2074
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:00:11 -
[184] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
Arrendis wrote:Well, you know, Goons tend to grow on you...
... like a fungus.
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
860
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:03:17 -
[185] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that?
Marry me.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
|
William Danneskjold
67
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:03:22 -
[186] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
Arrendis wrote:Well, you know, Goons tend to grow on you...
... like a fungus.
That's why my thinking's getting fuzzy.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2078
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:43:45 -
[187] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me.
Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2068
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 19:30:23 -
[188] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me. Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod.
*Holds up a length of piano wire* Sounds like a party.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2082
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:07:35 -
[189] - Quote
What part of auto-erotic asphyxiation says I need your piano wire? |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2069
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:11:18 -
[190] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:What part of auto-erotic asphyxiation says I need your piano wire?
What part of abusive says you get a choice? :)
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
110
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 00:53:22 -
[191] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me. Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod.
And I thought MY fetishes were ****** up |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2818
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 01:49:56 -
[192] - Quote
Jin'taan wrote:Whilst I am somewhat late to this discussion, I will point out that, as haughty, arrogant, or otherwise distateful many members may find the request of the Villore Assembly, the ultimate decision simply lays with the Empire and her Diplomatic Corps. Should they feel the works of the VA would award them such recognition, I would hope no loyal subject of the Empire would broke argument, and surely would not stoop to the level of attacking guests of the Empire. Equally, if they are refused, I imagine the VA would understand, given that they are a capsuleer organisation, and - should what they say ring true - as a diplomatic group, graciously accept their status as normal guests of the ceremony. Simply put, I struggle to see why the hell you all give a damn.
I think it is just them yelling "We gallente, look at us and do as we told".
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2074
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 13:38:08 -
[193] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
This seems to imply that you manually aim your ships turrets. That's talent...
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1866
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 17:27:01 -
[194] - Quote
I wasn't really planning on getting involved in this thread, but since I've gotten everything off of my plate for the morning and have a bit of time, I might as well weigh in.
First, Jin'taan has the right of it. The amount of energy wasted by people throwing a fit over the resolution, none of whom have any say over its acceptance or acknowledgement by actually relevant parties - regardless of whether those parties are from the Federation or the Empire - was utterly ridiculous, and people really ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Second, I feel it worth noting that while Hive operations typically see, engage, and destroy an average of perhaps eight to ten Drifter vessels per trip, for Dogma and Fight Club's operations during the Throne Worlds campaign, it was normal to see several hundred of those vessels destroyed in a single fleet operation, at a rate of thirteen or fourteen per individual engagement and with zero losses save the occasional Hyena, or more frequently, drone.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 16:43:40 -
[195] - Quote
So what exactly compelled you to contribute nothing to this discussion days after it was considered relevant and waste so much of this precious energy you care so much about? You really ought to be ashamed of yourself. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1868
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 17:02:39 -
[196] - Quote
Besides the fact that it annoyed you enough to make an unnecessarily hostile post?
Correcting someone on an inaccurate statement about a subject I am far more intimately familiar with than they are, and publicly stating my agreement with and support of Jin'taan's view of the matter, as an Observer in the Assembly who participated in the process for the resolution in the first place.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 18:19:42 -
[197] - Quote
People keep me calling me hostile when I respond to them with the same condescending tone they use to address people who do not agree with them. Most curious. Well, its not really that curious, but you get the idea.
Fine, want to hear some words with actual hostile intent behind them? From where I'm standing the whole topic has been nothing but a sad circlejerk where Villore Assembly and their sympathisers pat eachothers on the back for making a completely pointless resolution - which, many of them and you yourself have now acknowledged, that they have no actual power on the matter at all themselves. Then when someone dared to point this out, there come the complaints that "you are being too pedantic, what are just a few words, we meant good," blah blah.
If these people had just owned up to the fact that they made a mistake, that would have been the end of it.
Instead, when Pilot Onzo raised a legitimate concern over the wording of the resolution, signees and affiliates of the Assembly just decided to brush it away as being too pedantic and by the book. When I offered my support to his views I was likewise being scolded off for daring to say anything. At this point, we both had remained completely civil.
However right after this, then, Assembly spokesperson and their affiliates, start getting really angry about being questioned, using condescending remarks "laughable", "you forget your places", "well what did you ever do for galactic peace" etc. Its all right there, go back and read it.
This was about the point where I lost my patience and appreciation for pleasantries as they were likewise not wasted towards me or any of the other people who felt that this resolution had stepped out of its place as well.
Then a certain someone decided to start reading something on the resolution that wasn't even there, and complains how can I not see it, and again, flat out keeps insulting me.
Then one certain uppity Vherokior pilot tries to shame me out of the discussion by appealing to intertribal politics and customs, forgetting that since I am a capsuleer, they affect me as much as I allow them to affect me. By the way, my clan has not disowned me yet, altough I frankly doubt they or other baseliners actually care about capsuleer quarrels enough to do so. Last I heard their businesses continues as usual. This is about the point where I shedded any last remnants of trying to appear polite, as evident in my response to him.
Then there is you, last in a long line who comes to complain about people complaining. You could have just left your note about drifter operations and leave, but no, you just had to one last dig when things had already settled down and nobody really gave a damn anymore.
Sorry not sorry. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1869
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:02:44 -
[198] - Quote
And yet... none of that requires you to be snippy or snarky with me.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:14:52 -
[199] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:And yet... none of that requires you to be snippy or snarky with me.
I suppose you are right, you had not offended me personally, and I apologize thusly for my harsh reaction.
Surely you understand though, that echoing the same drivel with the same condescending and dismissive tone most other participants in this discussion had done previously, you did not exactly come forth in perfect form yourself. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6349
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 21:46:33 -
[200] - Quote
Like anyone, I feel no particular shame or compunction when a bunch of warhawks who do everything they can to profit from war start talking big about their record on peaceful initiatives.
That's why I'm not surprised when people poke fun at me for doing it. People like Villore Accords and myself absolutely have things of value to bring to the peace table, but let's not start strutting about and pretending that we're anything but poorly leashed hounds.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1416
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 23:42:26 -
[201] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Like anyone, I feel no particular shame or compunction when a bunch of warhawks who do everything they can to profit from war start talking big about their record on peaceful initiatives.
That's why I'm not surprised when people poke fun at me for doing it. People like Villore Accords and myself absolutely have things of value to bring to the peace table, but let's not start strutting about and pretending that we're anything but poorly leashed hounds. You know, occasionally I actually like you, Pieter.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1506
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 01:41:04 -
[202] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
This seems to imply that you manually aim your ships turrets. That's talent...
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 13:55:07 -
[203] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages.
They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative!
And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1341
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:15:58 -
[204] - Quote
Don't you usually use missiles? Seems like it anyways. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:34:45 -
[205] - Quote
Railguns too. You can't find more precise weapons in our cluster than railguns.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1341
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:44:30 -
[206] - Quote
Can't argue that... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1519
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:58:28 -
[207] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor...
Except that doesn't work at all.
Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately.
Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that.
Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become.
The computers, by the way, are what we call 'Fire Control Directors'. It's not a person, it's a computer that calculates exactly where to aim, after taking into account of all these factors.
Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles?
((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations))
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:06:25 -
[208] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor... Except that doesn't work at all. Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately. Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that. Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become. That system, by the way, is what we call a 'Fire Control Director'. It's not a person, it's a system to generate accurate calculations to determine exactly where to aim after taking into account of all these factors. Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles? ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations))
You are annoying.
If minmatar engineers can't understand a simple concept of a camera attached to the barrel so the pilot and crew (should they want to) could see where it is pointed without affecting the tracking and gun control, I don't think that further explanation would change anything.
That's just pathetic.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1519
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:08:05 -
[209] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor... Except that doesn't work at all. Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately. Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that. Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become. That system, by the way, is what we call a 'Fire Control Director'. It's not a person, it's a system to generate accurate calculations to determine exactly where to aim after taking into account of all these factors. Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles? ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations)) You are annoying. If minmatar engineers can't understand a simple concept of a camera attached to the barrel so the pilot and crew (should they want to) could see where it is pointed without affecting the tracking and gun control, I don't think that further explanation would change anything. That's just pathetic.
A Minmatar engineer knows ballistic physics and how to design a fire control system using five year old computers that some wasteful idiot is tossing into a junk heap that is able to get them a firing solution for a weapon type infamous for jumping ever so slightly due to recoil every second and still achieve a reasonable level of accuracy. I doubt you actually manually aim anything and just want to feel good about yourself.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
Villore Accords
55
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:47:59 -
[210] - Quote
My name is Diana Kim, and I am the deadliest person in space. My railguns never hit the target but they always hit something.
Diana Kim the thing about you that makes me sad is that you make me side with Elmund Egivand every now and then.
For a Soldier of the State, I am surprised by your lack on knowledge on how long distance shooting works. Maybe that is why you are in a capsule.
Elmund Egivand that is an amazing post on how gunnery works.
It is amazing how off the topic of the original post we have gotten in this thread.
Tristan Valentina |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 01:12:05 -
[211] - Quote
Tristan Valentina wrote:My name is Diana Kim, and I am the deadliest person in space. My railguns never hit the target but they always hit something.
Diana Kim the thing about you that makes me sad is that you make me side with Elmund Egivand every now and then.
For a Soldier of the State, I am surprised by your lack on knowledge on how long distance shooting works. Maybe that is why you are in a capsule.
Elmund Egivand that is an amazing post on how gunnery works.
It is amazing how off the topic of the original post we have gotten in this thread.
Tristan Valentina
Am I that bad?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2838
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 15:25:02 -
[212] - Quote
Oh, sweet Maker. Now there are TWO gallentean idiots who can't understand concept of looking through gun targeting reticle. And they can't understand that to look you don't have to move the gun or do anything with it except having a mean of looking along the barrel. Your knowledge of physics is lacking.
And yes, Egivand. You are bad. Go back to training.
And no, Tristan. Our railguns are most precise weapons in the cluster. You might even taste them between your teeth when you get out from your hiding and face our forces. Even small railguns will reach your puny ship from 100 km.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1540
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 16:27:59 -
[213] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Oh, sweet Maker. Now there are TWO gallentean idiots who can't understand concept of looking through gun targeting reticle. And they can't understand that to look you don't have to move the gun or do anything with it except having a mean of looking along the barrel. Your knowledge of physics is lacking.
And yes, Egivand. You are bad. Go back to training.
And no, Tristan. Our railguns are most precise weapons in the cluster. You might even taste them between your teeth when you get out from your hiding and face our forces. Even small railguns will reach your puny ship from 100 km.
I had already mentioned that the 'reticle' thing only works for targets who are meters away from your location, not KILOMETERS away, where the best you will see of your target is a barely perceptible speck of light and you have to rely on a telescope to even see the thing properly. Then you have to gauge velocity and direction so that you may lead your very fast moving target. And even then eye-based distance and velocity determination is horrifically inaccurate. That's why your ships have sensors systems/network and tactical suites whose job is to tell you where a target (identified by electronic signature, NOT sight) is, how fast it is going, what angle is it flying. Because your eyes are terrible at managing that kind of data.
Then you have to also take into account about the guns being located at different parts of the ship and each having different angles. Your fire control director system is there to take into account of the sensor data, turn speed of turret, location of said turret and then figure out exactly where to aim, then direct the turrets to aim exactly there. If missiles, aim launchers for most expeditious delivery of payload, upload tracking data and let the missiles lose.
However, the automated fire control system has weaknesses. For one, it relies entirely on sensor data, which does not provide a single accurate reading but an average. This is due to the fact that sensors have resolutions and the fact that the data is generated based on the target's electronic signature radius rather than true size and silhouette. As such, the figure generated by the sensor can be wrong, but due to how the system is programmed, it will keep generating the same inaccurate figures. In order to compensate for this problem, the fire control system has to be designed to work not with a specific figure but with probable figures. Probability. Aim trajectory based entirely on the probability of where the target will be in the next firing cycle.
To do this, the fire control director system will need to be programmed using a neural network scheme. However, such a system has a very steep hardware requirement, if all components were to be artificial. Even worse, fabricating such a thing will very quickly draw the attention of CONCORD, and for good reason. Artificial neural networks form the framework of strong AI, which as we all know is what led to the birth of the Rogue Drones.
That's where the capsuleer comes in. Every capsuleer already has a neural network in his or her brain. Every capsuleer is equipped to deal with probabilities. We can intuitively determine the chance of whether the target is actually where the data says it will be and adjust the figures accordingly. If there is a miss, we can adjust the figures, something a traditional fire control director can't do. All the capsuleer needs is to have his side of the program and the instinctive understanding on how gunnery, and by extension, this program, works in his or her brain. So we take the skill injection, spend more time for the knowledge to bake into our subconscious, then plug ourselves to the capsule and then to the ship, link up with the rest of the components of the fire control director system and be faster, more efficient and generally outright better at hitting targets between 500m to 100+km away as compared to any other ship that still relies on gunnery crew or the traditional fire control director system.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 16:28:41 -
[214] - Quote
You know, watching several people recently sally forth in the face of direct cited contrary evidence to their point--by experts no less, I'm reminded of a recent conversation that I had with a friend of mine. I was talking about the profit margins of a product that I was selling and in the middle of it, she stops me and goes, "Why don't you just start scamming people? I find it much less bothersome and marks are abundant."
I laughed then, but reading a few of these exchanges lately, I'm thinking that she might have a point. In either event, because of this thread, I've already got an idea for a product and a sucker to sell it to. Nice to have in your back pocket. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1540
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 16:48:52 -
[215] - Quote
I swear, if I have to keep posting technical information like that, I might have to put together a 'Starship Systems for Dummies' guide.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2231
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 16:55:53 -
[216] - Quote
You totally should. Let me know if you need any help on the differences between shield and armor remote repair systems and why they apply at different rates. (Hint: it's the nanites.) |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1540
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 17:01:42 -
[217] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:You totally should. Let me know if you need any help on the differences between shield and armor remote repair systems and why they apply at different rates. (Hint: it's the nanites.)
Not to mention the shield booster systems also incorporate replenishment of the high viscosity plasma layer, maintenance of the electromagnetic field and the reassembly of the lattice made of superlight shield-hardening nanites.
With remote armor repairers all you need to do is to direct where you want to dump the nanites on.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2840
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 17:29:14 -
[218] - Quote
It is funny how gallentean bootlicker start pouring irrelevant to the question information because they failed to grasp the concept, claiming I 'didn't know that'.
Stop flooding forums with technical data, Egivand. Learn to think with your head, not your data book. All the sources in the world won't help you if you fail to understand the subject in first place.
On other hand, dear readers, displayed by him behavior could be easily predicted taking into account that he fell for gallentean propaganda. I just hope that the most of them are like Elmund Egivand. Then we won't have problem fighting them, as they won't recognize our plans even if they see them with their own eyes.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1542
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 17:34:05 -
[219] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:It is funny how gallentean bootlicker start pouring irrelevant to the question information because they failed to grasp the concept, claiming I 'didn't know that'.
Stop flooding forums with technical data, Egivand. Learn to think with your head, not your data book. All the sources in the world won't help you if you fail to understand the subject in first place.
On other hand, dear readers, displayed by him behavior could be easily predicted taking into account that he fell for gallentean propaganda. I just hope that the most of them are like Elmund Egivand. Then we won't have problem fighting them, as they won't recognize our plans even if they see them with their own eyes.
Ah yes. The Caldari Navy also teaches this propaganda to their cadets.
Did you even go through the Capsuleer Programme through the Caldari Navy? Or did you get in by writing a very flattering pro-Heth opinion piece to be published to the working public?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
113
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 20:33:14 -
[220] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Oh, sweet Maker. Now there are TWO gallentean idiots who can't understand concept of looking through gun targeting reticle. And they can't understand that to look you don't have to move the gun or do anything with it except having a mean of looking along the barrel. Your knowledge of physics is lacking.
And yes, Egivand. You are bad. Go back to training.
And no, Tristan. Our railguns are most precise weapons in the cluster. You might even taste them between your teeth when you get out from your hiding and face our forces. Even small railguns will reach your puny ship from 100 km.
So you are trying to convince us that you or your crew can track better than immortal mercenary snipers I can prove you wrong just name a time and a place preferably planetside |
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
190
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 00:02:46 -
[221] - Quote
This is getting embarrassing. She's talking about having a camera on a turret just for fun, not for using it to aim. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2260
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 00:32:06 -
[222] - Quote
Pilot Egivand you should know better than trying to speak logically to the likes of Kim. She will never admit that you're correct and she's wrong no matter how much data and science you present her with. The gods themselves could not beat her brains out for she has none.
Best to simply block and ignore her and move forward.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2847
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 06:45:09 -
[223] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:This is getting embarrassing. She's talking about having a camera on a turret just for fun, not for using it to aim.
Indeed. But, well, I guess some peoples are straightforward stupid to realize this. I think Egivand is actually a... ship mechanic? Right? I can understand the way he is reasoning: "If to target a ship you need to look at it, thus if you are looking at it, you need to do the targeting procedures yourself." This is quite common logical fallacy, and a reason why I would never ever actually let someone like Egivand to do complex engineering tasks. I believe despite his ability to cite technical manuals his best position on the ship (if he wouldn't be a capsuleer) would be a janitor.
As for Rella's remark, it is widely known that the space between her ears is as bright as jump links in J7HZ-F. Quite typical for a rabid dog like her to jump in help to another tribal to try to attack a Caldari representative. But alas, she did it so fast without even realizing what the talk was about, just displaying her inability to think to the whole IGS. I would pity her for her lack of mental prowess, if I would consider her a human being.
Oh, and Mr. Ramal. It was not just for fun, but to see how they explode and cease to exist. It gives sort of... satisfaction.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
114
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 13:00:03 -
[224] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:This is getting embarrassing. She's talking about having a camera on a turret just for fun, not for using it to aim. Indeed. But, well, I guess some peoples are straightforward stupid to realize this. I think Egivand is actually a... ship mechanic? Right? I can understand the way he is reasoning: "If to target a ship you need to look at it, thus if you are looking at it, you need to do the targeting procedures yourself." This is quite common logical fallacy, and a reason why I would never ever actually let someone like Egivand to do complex engineering tasks. I believe despite his ability to cite technical manuals his best position on the ship (if he wouldn't be a capsuleer) would be a janitor. As for Rella's remark, it is widely known that the space between her ears is as bright as jump links in J7HZ-F. Quite typical for a rabid dog like her to jump in help to another tribal to try to attack a Caldari representative. But alas, she did it so fast without even realizing what the talk was about, just displaying her inability to think to the whole IGS. I would pity her for her lack of mental prowess, if I would consider her a human being. Oh, and Mr. Ramal. It was not just for fun, but to see how they explode and cease to exist. It gives sort of... satisfaction.
so..... you're physically tracking them right well then you should definitely be able to track better than a mercenary sniper let me prove you wrong on New Caldari tomorrow at 1700 |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1608
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 02:48:01 -
[225] - Quote
Slayer Liberator wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:This is getting embarrassing. She's talking about having a camera on a turret just for fun, not for using it to aim. Indeed. But, well, I guess some peoples are straightforward stupid to realize this. I think Egivand is actually a... ship mechanic? Right? I can understand the way he is reasoning: "If to target a ship you need to look at it, thus if you are looking at it, you need to do the targeting procedures yourself." This is quite common logical fallacy, and a reason why I would never ever actually let someone like Egivand to do complex engineering tasks. I believe despite his ability to cite technical manuals his best position on the ship (if he wouldn't be a capsuleer) would be a janitor. As for Rella's remark, it is widely known that the space between her ears is as bright as jump links in J7HZ-F. Quite typical for a rabid dog like her to jump in help to another tribal to try to attack a Caldari representative. But alas, she did it so fast without even realizing what the talk was about, just displaying her inability to think to the whole IGS. I would pity her for her lack of mental prowess, if I would consider her a human being. Oh, and Mr. Ramal. It was not just for fun, but to see how they explode and cease to exist. It gives sort of... satisfaction. so..... you're physically tracking them right well then you should definitely be able to track better than a mercenary sniper let me prove you wrong on New Caldari tomorrow at 1700
Make sure to track something that is at minimum 500m away and is moving around at speeds at excess of 800km/s.
Back to Diana, the problem is also about tracking with the human eye. Again, you can barely see the thing. And even if you can see the thing you can barely differentiate it from the other specks of light that's all around you. So, yes, you get a computer to do the calculation for you as you try to aim manually. Then you run into two problems:
First problem, the reticle, in order to actually be perceivable, has to be larger than the target itself by a non-negligible margin. So assuming that the reticle is adjusted after calculations and you did follow those directions...guess what! If you are slightly off by even 0.01 degrees you are going to end up missing regardless.
So you solve that with the digital 'ruler' in the camera. Now you have to measure to reduce the margin of error, which slows your reaction time further, causing you to miss the timing and therefore the mark.
Second problem, your reaction time. Your reaction plus the mechanics of the turret, ensures that there will always be a delay. Even a generous 0.5 seconds delay will cause you to miss by a wide margin.
Forget all that and let automation do all the work for you instead. Automation is faster, more responsive and far more precise. Just be there, in your capsule, and provide that wonderful hardware in your brain to aid in further adjusting the calculation based on your ability to perform pattern recognitions and intuitive adjustments, of which your standard shipboard AI is incapable of doing.
There is a very good reason why manned turrets had fallen out of favour as compared to purely automated gunnery and missilery system for over two centuries now.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1674
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 05:18:03 -
[226] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:As for Rella's remark, it is widely known that the space between her ears is as bright as jump links in J7HZ-F.
Incorrect.
From my cousin and Synthia's groundbreaking research here.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2849
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 05:28:24 -
[227] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Diana Kim wrote:As for Rella's remark, it is widely known that the space between her ears is as bright as jump links in J7HZ-F. Incorrect.From my cousin and Synthia's groundbreaking research here.
Well, fine.
Like UUA-F4. After all, she manages to say at least something.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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