Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 21:56:00 -
[31]
Just cant wait to see new whine threads about being damped to 3 km target range, now that jamming is almost useless and pvpers will inevitably train for dampening :) People always whine instead of fitting counters, saves them thinking.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Repo Industries
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 21:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: NIkis now that jamming is almost useless and pvpers will inevitably train for dampening
Oh wow. Really?
I wish my corpmates who fly rooks and scorps knew that. I wish my ex-corp leader knew that, when he brought those rooks along.
I wish we knew that when we've beat great odds due to having a rook and/or scorp in the gang.
Dayum. :(
Passive shield tank is the new WCS! |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 21:59:00 -
[33]
The damper/sensor booster interaction, nosses, and supercapital tackling need to be looked at. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:26:00 -
[34]
Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:25:02 Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:23:43
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: NIkis now that jamming is almost useless and pvpers will inevitably train for dampening
Oh wow. Really?
I wish my corpmates who fly rooks and scorps knew that. I wish my ex-corp leader knew that, when he brought those rooks along.
I wish we knew that when we've beat great odds due to having a rook and/or scorp in the gang.
Dayum. :(
obviously your targets dont know what ECCM is, dayum ... in short, its a single mid slot module which counters a lot of midslot modules :)
but of course as I said, people prefer to whine instead of losing 1 tank/ganking mod in those mids
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 22:36:10 put all the ECCM on a cruiser that you want, it wont stop it from getting jammed by a blackbird or scorpion. Put all the damps you want on a cruiser and it wont stop it from ramming into your face and targeting you.
Most ships dont have mid slots to spare for ECCM unless they are jamming ships.
ECM scales better against small ships[easier to jam]. Damps scale better against large and slow ships[they cant get in range as easily].
We call this "a trade off" ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:38:00 -
[36]
Originally by: NIkis
Originally by: Evil Carebear I think it's unfair that guns / launchers do different damage. We should normalize them, so everything does the same amount of damage. Do the same with tanking...so that shield and armor tanking is EXACTLY the same except that you need different slots.
Finally EVE will be fair
Fair and dull like the above about passive shield tank
If anything missiles should do more dps because it is delayed
About not having different damaage types.. lol, why not go play mario theres only one damage type there ?
and less DPS because it scales better against small ships. And less DPS because of the high volley damage. And less DPS since there are few penalties for changing damages types, which they do better than any other weapon system. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:50:24
Originally by: Goumindong
and less DPS because it scales better against small ships
scourge heavy explosion radius 125 mm heavy neutron blaster (and med rail) signature resolution .. surprise 125 mm
Care to ellaborate on 'scales better' ? unless you use rockets as an example. And if you really need a skill for lowering your guns sig res by 25% when its maxed, go ahead and ask for it. And tbh in this game you shouldn't worry about smaller ships unless they 'swarm' ya
Besides theres more differences between missiles and turrets for example missiles can be smartbombed, turret charges cant and so on (implants come to mind).
edit: what 'high volley damage' when anyone but the dumbest have warped away long before the missiles got to land on them ?
|
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DeadRow
Originally by: Shania Eria dampners.. the next in line is these buggers, with 3 of them and 1 rig you can reduce someones lock range from 100km to 3km
Leave my damps alone
ohhh noes i love damps myself... damper myrm, damper-pest- damperion, damperdomi.. ultraness.. nothing beats us 1v1 damperkings
|
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 22:36:10 put all the ECCM on a cruiser that you want, it wont stop it from getting jammed by a blackbird or scorpion. Put all the damps you want on a cruiser and it wont stop it from ramming into your face and targeting you.
Most ships dont have mid slots to spare for ECCM unless they are jamming ships.
ECM scales better against small ships[easier to jam]. Damps scale better against large and slow ships[they cant get in range as easily].
We call this "a trade off"
you cant ram things that are faster than you... silly
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 22:36:10 put all the ECCM on a cruiser that you want, it wont stop it from getting jammed by a blackbird or scorpion. Put all the damps you want on a cruiser and it wont stop it from ramming into your face and targeting you.
Most ships dont have mid slots to spare for ECCM unless they are jamming ships.
ECM scales better against small ships[easier to jam]. Damps scale better against large and slow ships[they cant get in range as easily].
We call this "a trade off"
you cant ram things that are faster than you... silly
Your damping boats are faster than frigates and cruisers? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
|
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:58:00 -
[41]
Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:55:30
Originally by: Tista
ohhh noes i love damps myself... damper myrm, damper-pest- damperion, damperdomi.. ultraness.. nothing beats us 1v1 damperkings
unfortunately that is bound to happen sooner or later.. remember the 1v1 ECMkings lol (everybody and their mother fitted ecm on ships)
at least we got the almighty painter left
goumindong youre making me lol.. check target range on frigates lately ? and it was about scaling against LARGER ships anyway
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:50:24
Originally by: Goumindong
and less DPS because it scales better against small ships
scourge heavy explosion radius 125 mm heavy neutron blaster (and med rail) signature resolution .. surprise 125 mm
Care to ellaborate on 'scales better' ? unless you use rockets as an example. And if you really need a skill for lowering your guns sig res by 25% when its maxed, go ahead and ask for it. And tbh in this game you shouldn't worry about smaller ships unless they 'swarm' ya
Besides theres more differences between missiles and turrets for example missiles can be smartbombed, turret charges cant and so on (implants come to mind).
edit: what 'high volley damage' when anyone but the dumbest have warped away long before the missiles got to land on them ?
Scales better as in "you do more damage to smaller ships"
A Heavy Neutron blaster that cannot track a frigate does 0 DPS. A frigate that fits an afterburner will be able to out transverse any cruiser sized gun.
A precision heavy has an explosion radius of what? 75m? So it does about 60% damage to frigates? 1250 exp velocity so it does about 50% damage to most MWDing frigates?
So an MWDing frigate takes 30% of the damage from missiles.
An ABing frigate takes 0% of the damage from turrets.
---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:55:30
Originally by: Tista
ohhh noes i love damps myself... damper myrm, damper-pest- damperion, damperdomi.. ultraness.. nothing beats us 1v1 damperkings
unfortunately that is bound to happen sooner or later.. remember the 1v1 ECMkings lol (everybody and their mother fitted ecm on ships)
at least we got the almighty painter left
goumindong youre making me lol.. check target range on frigates lately ? and it was about scaling against LARGER ships anyway
Yes, trade-offs. ECM works better against smaller ships and worse against bigger ships[but still very well against bigger ships]. Damps work worse against smaller ships and better against bigger and slower ships. Same for tracking disruptors[larger optimal + worse tracking = nastier penalty]
You might be able to damp a cruiser from 20km to 5km[or 3km] locking range. But that doesnt matter as much because they can travel the distance in 7 seconds with an MWD. You can damp the locking range of a battleship from 70 to 10 and hold them there if they are unable to close the distance.
Smaller = worse for damps and disruptors. Smaller=better for ECM
---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 22:36:10 put all the ECCM on a cruiser that you want, it wont stop it from getting jammed by a blackbird or scorpion. Put all the damps you want on a cruiser and it wont stop it from ramming into your face and targeting you.
Most ships dont have mid slots to spare for ECCM unless they are jamming ships.
ECM scales better against small ships[easier to jam]. Damps scale better against large and slow ships[they cant get in range as easily].
We call this "a trade off"
you cant ram things that are faster than you... silly
Your damping boats are faster than frigates and cruisers?
500-1000m lock range + the fact that all those ships have drones to counter smaller ships + the fact that it takes 1 hell of alot of them to harm a battleship.. me thinks unless you have a fleet vs 1 that wont work :D
|
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:50:24
Originally by: Goumindong
and less DPS because it scales better against small ships
scourge heavy explosion radius 125 mm heavy neutron blaster (and med rail) signature resolution .. surprise 125 mm
Care to ellaborate on 'scales better' ? unless you use rockets as an example. And if you really need a skill for lowering your guns sig res by 25% when its maxed, go ahead and ask for it. And tbh in this game you shouldn't worry about smaller ships unless they 'swarm' ya
Besides theres more differences between missiles and turrets for example missiles can be smartbombed, turret charges cant and so on (implants come to mind).
edit: what 'high volley damage' when anyone but the dumbest have warped away long before the missiles got to land on them ?
Scales better as in "you do more damage to smaller ships"
A Heavy Neutron blaster that cannot track a frigate does 0 DPS. A frigate that fits an afterburner will be able to out transverse any cruiser sized gun.
A precision heavy has an explosion radius of what? 75m? So it does about 60% damage to frigates? 1250 exp velocity so it does about 50% damage to most MWDing frigates?
So an MWDing frigate takes 30% of the damage from missiles.
An ABing frigate takes 0% of the damage from turrets.
That goes to prove that no weapon system is perfect. If you think missiles are, train and give them a try Lets just nerf damps for now
|
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 17/03/2007 22:55:30
Originally by: Tista
ohhh noes i love damps myself... damper myrm, damper-pest- damperion, damperdomi.. ultraness.. nothing beats us 1v1 damperkings
unfortunately that is bound to happen sooner or later.. remember the 1v1 ECMkings lol (everybody and their mother fitted ecm on ships)
at least we got the almighty painter left
goumindong youre making me lol.. check target range on frigates lately ? and it was about scaling against LARGER ships anyway
Yes, trade-offs. ECM works better against smaller ships and worse against bigger ships[but still very well against bigger ships]. Damps work worse against smaller ships and better against bigger and slower ships. Same for tracking disruptors[larger optimal + worse tracking = nastier penalty]
You might be able to damp a cruiser from 20km to 5km[or 3km] locking range. But that doesnt matter as much because they can travel the distance in 7 seconds with an MWD. You can damp the locking range of a battleship from 70 to 10 and hold them there if they are unable to close the distance.
Smaller = worse for damps and disruptors. Smaller=better for ECM
this relys on the fact that at no point do you move outside those 3km in the 20-30 seconds it takes you to lock + the fact you have the ships primary weapons engaging you and drones, and nos if it has it.
|
maGz
Chaos Reborn
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:10:00 -
[47]
Nerf Tuxford? ____________ Coming soon... |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: maGz Nerf Tuxford?
woot this is an interesting one .. got potential
|
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 23:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: maGz Nerf Tuxford?
/me nerfs the nerfbat which nerfs tuxford.. meaning its haxors
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:27:00 -
[50]
If you reduce the damp percentage then at the very least give them some actual range...
I dont see where the damp crying is coming from; sure if you stick 3 on someone he can't lock you from over 10km, but what ship has 3 damps, scramblers, enough speed to stay at range to prevent the lock and then the DPS to actually kill the target...
Seriously...
I look at them as a way to protect drones; not much more.
Discussing moderation is a no-no- Tirg |
|
Wrayeth
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:29:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 18/03/2007 00:28:16
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
I dont see where the damp crying is coming from; sure if you stick 3 on someone he can't lock you from over 10km, but what ship has 3 damps, scramblers, enough speed to stay at range to prevent the lock and then the DPS to actually kill the target...
Curse, domi, huginn, lachesis, and a whole host of other ships. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
Darth Kenzie
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:31:00 -
[52]
My 2isk,
Dampers aren't a problem in my experiences they seem to be about as effective as ECM (circumstances depending one is favored as has been noted), the biggest thing is just that now that ECM have been nerfed people are actually using them so people are also having to learn how to fight against them and plan for them in their setups.
Nos are a big problem. I can't find a single pvp ship in my hanger that doesn't have one or more fitted. I do fly amarr so I'm biased here... lasers take enough cap without every one is space stealing more. I've read a lot of good idea for how to fix nos and think giving them a sig radius and also putting utility slots on ships (say 2 or so for nonlogistics ships... obvioulsy curse and pilgrim get more... mabie all amarr get an extra given our cap problems...) are the best ways to fix the issue(sry to whoevers ideas these orgionally where I forget where i read this and am too lazy to track it down).
Omni tanks: lower the cpu requirment for active armor hardeners, and increase it for EANM.
Amarr: honestly I'm not sure there is as much wrong with them as most people say if nos and omni are fixed and lasers get a slight dps buff I think they will be fine as a race... though the Sac really could use some love.
Well there is my eve patch wish list. HROLT Personnel Director Even my barge has kills... |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: NIkis
That goes to prove that no weapon system is perfect. If you think missiles are, train and give them a try Lets just nerf damps for now
I was just saying that as a counterpoint to saying that missiles were worse than turrets. They arent. They are better in some situations, and worse in other situations.
As for damps.
They are very strong in one versus ones[or many vs 1] against larger ships that are unable to dictate their range against the damper or any other targets.
They can even be devastating with the proper application of high quality gang coordination and fitting.
But other than that, they are not as strong as people claim them to be. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tista
500-1000m lock range + the fact that all those ships have drones to counter smaller ships + the fact that it takes 1 hell of alot of them to harm a battleship.. me thinks unless you have a fleet vs 1 that wont work :D
Yes, typically frigates dont kill battleships, since they dont really have the DPS to break the battleships tank. Same for a cruiser[unless more come]
There has always been the dynamic that smaller ships have a harder time killing bigger ships unless thing bring more ships. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 01:39:00 -
[55]
damps and nos, fairly obviously. Nanos may need another tap with the bat, we'll see after next week.
sgb
|
Aaron Mirrorsaver
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 02:10:00 -
[56]
this game has so many possible combinations and so many different types of combat setups. 100's of thousands.
Just because a setup you had didn't work against someone doesn't mean that what the other person was using needs to be nerferd. I.e the 6 turret NOS ship.
A passive shield tank is the answer to an all NOS setup. If your shields are recharging super fast(not reliant on cap) hence no cap needed, how can the NOS ship hurt? Only with its drones or secondary weapons. Armor tankers can either train shield skills, to get a bit of variety in their setups, or too bad.
So if you have good passive shield tank/skills and nice outfit on drake, vs something with 6 nos, and only drones for damage, and you have some drones, your missiles and one or two NOS yourself VS the opponent who is an armor tanker... who will win?
If you can stack 6 rail guns without a stacking penalty, why not 6 NOS? There are setups to beat it as mentioned.
star wars galaxies here we come!
|
Dark Kavar
Caldari Aionios Diadochi
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 02:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/03/2007 18:29:44 -Passive shield tanking nerf?
please no, anything but this
Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
|
Taran Summers
The Merovingians
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 03:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: NIkis
Originally by: Evil Carebear I think it's unfair that guns / launchers do different damage. We should normalize them, so everything does the same amount of damage. Do the same with tanking...so that shield and armor tanking is EXACTLY the same except that you need different slots.
Finally EVE will be fair
Fair and dull like the above about passive shield tank
If anything missiles should do more dps because it is delayed
About not having different damaage types.. lol, why not go play mario theres only one damage type there ?
Untrue. I remember distinctly jumping on Koopahs (Kinetic) and getting the fire flower and chucking fireballs at them (Thermal). NERF MARIO! |
Vandrion
RABBLE-RABBLE
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 03:13:00 -
[59]
You all are looking at NOS all wrong. NOS is nothing more then another weapon, much like a 425mm rail without the 150+ km ranges.
Want stacking penalties for NOS? Then I want stacking penalties for launchers and guns!
|
VanNostrum
|
Posted - 2007.03.18 03:15:00 -
[60]
There are counter measures for dampeners and ECM, the modules are out there (sensor boosters, signal amplifiers, ECCMs, sensor backup arrays etc)
Just because some PVPers are using ECM/dampeners effectively doesn't mean they need nerf, people just need to look for modules that help.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |