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ccp is keeping your reward money.....little know fact

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
centaur I	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:43:00 - [1] i recently lost alot of isk due to a failed courier contract with a big reward and low collateral. the GM's tell me that if a contract like this fails you are entitled to the collateral but you do not get the reward money back. this is an outrage. they are taking our reward money on failed contracts and most do not even realize this. with the buggy contract system this is frequently happening. ccp already gets a broker fee and deposit when you set up the contract. you should not lose your reward money on a failed contract. a reward is for something that is satisfied, not failed. i call everyone who agrees to petition about this to stop. they will not tell me where the money went, whos got it etc. and for some reason they refuse to give it back
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:45:00 - [2] I predict that someone, somewhere has a VERY big slush fund available now.
Imechal Ravpeim International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:45:00 - [3] That's... the DEFINITION of collateral. If you wanted the reward you shouldn't have failed it and lost their courier.
Korizan	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:49:00 - [4] Hmmm I see Concord dressed up like Mel Brooks saying "IT IS GOOD TO BE KING" IBTL
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim That's... the DEFINITION of collateral. If you wanted the reward you shouldn't have failed it and lost their courier. I think you misunderstand. He is the one with the contract out there. He set up a courier with a reward of X, and collateral of Y. Player Z picked up the courier, and failed. He got collateral Y, but never was refunded his reward X money. So, if he put a reward of 10million (I know, not very likely to be this good) and a collateral of 10million, then he got 0 isk. As his reward is gone, and the collateral paid for the reward, NOT the items.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:51:00 - [6] Consider it a penalty for not training Industrial and doing the stupid job himself. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Pattern Clarc Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:52:00 - [7] I'll petition this. /signed Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Ariu Devine Pilots of True Potential	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:56:00 - [8] Originally by: The Pointless Consider it a penalty for not training Industrial and doing the stupid job himself. That is the most ignorant statement I have seen in awhile.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:05:00 - [9] Originally by: centaur I i recently lost alot of isk due to a failed courier contract with a big reward and low collateral. the GM's tell me that if a contract like this fails you are entitled to the collateral but you do not get the reward money back. this is an outrage. they are taking our reward money on failed contracts and most do not even realize this. with the buggy contract system this is frequently happening. ccp already gets a broker fee and deposit when you set up the contract. you should not lose your reward money on a failed contract. a reward is for something that is satisfied, not failed. i call everyone who agrees to petition about this to stop. they will not tell me where the money went, whos got it etc. and for some reason they refuse to give it back I agree, this happened to me a couple weeks ago, I was transferring a vengeance with my alt for 2 mil and no collateral (he's my alt) but it was at the time when the contract system was messed up, so after a couple days I just said "screw it" and broke the box, creating an item exchange in station. Never got those 2 mil back, and yes, 2 mil is a significant amount to me. I'm a pirate. ----- Don't add a pool to sell a house. Fix the windows. Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Ariu Devine Originally by: The Pointless Consider it a penalty for not training Industrial and doing the stupid job himself. That is the most ignorant statement I have seen in awhile. Not really. Look at the courier jobs available in Essence right now. Many require you to shell out millions in collateral for what? Pulling 0.2m3 of some cheap Tech 1 crud out of 0.3 sec? Err... right. That doesn't seem fair to me. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:06:00 - [11] Edited by: Kumu Honua on 17/03/2007 23:05:55 Originally by: The Pointless Consider it a penalty for not training Industrial and doing the stupid job himself. Except there are people like me who are happy to do courier missions. If he doesn't want to train the skills, that's his choice, and mine to do his transport for him. Losing the reward portion of the contract on a failure is silly. The only time he should not get that refunded is if it's a successful courier and he gets his items. As it stands (If this is indeed how it works) people will have to start increasing the already large collaterals to include the reward causing further risk to couriers and making more contracts stand undelivered. By no fault of a pathetic reward, and actually HARMED by a huge reward as the collateral is similarly huge. Edit: There's a reason you SEE those courier contracts sitting in essence. The reward is utter crap, and not worth the time. Therefore, it will sit there unmoved till it expires. When the reward is worth doing, the courier contract is accepted and you don't get to see it.
centaur I	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:19:00 - [12] here is a direct reply on the petition form just for all to know whats up:: Hi. When a contract is failed the reward is lost and the pilot or corp that issued the contract get paid the collateral to cover the loss. If you set no collateral you will not get anything back if the contract fails. We can not see any bug or server side issue at work in this case so we may not reimburse you in this case. Best regards, Senior GM Spiral EVE Online Customer Support Team
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:21:00 - [13] So you've been needlessly bumping up the collateral? Reeeeeeeaaaaalll clever. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:31:00 - [14] You can flame this guy all you want, but he is 100% right. If i pay some guy to deliver something. Lets say 100 mil reward for this task. Why the **** should the reward not be returned? If the item isnt returned, you will receive collateral, which covers the cost of the loss (if you are clever that is). But why shouldnt the reward be returned? Nobody can give decent arguments to why it shouldnt be returned...Maybe as isk sink, but its the lamest isk sink in town than. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:34:00 - [15] Originally by: madaluap You can flame this guy all you want, but he is 100% right. If i pay some guy to deliver something. Lets say 100 mil reward for this task. Why the **** should the reward not be returned? If the item isnt returned, you will receive collateral, which covers the cost of the loss (if you are clever that is). But why shouldnt the reward be returned? Nobody can give decent arguments to why it shouldnt be returned...Maybe as isk sink, but its the lamest isk sink in town than. How about... the ONE courier contract that I 1) failed due to gate campers and 2) still had the package waiting for me but had only the Velator I was given upon docking, wasn't even worth the collateral I had shelled out. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:37:00 - [16] You are totally missing the whole point. You are looking at it from a victim's point of view, not a mechanics point of view. You are looking at "Pathetic" couriers instead of ones with real rewards. If he offers a 100million reward for a 0.1 courier and the collateral is only 60,000 because he only wants you to move a warp core stabalizer..... If you happen to fail that mission because you got blown up, then he should not be out 100 million isk on your failure. He should get that reward back. It's a reward, not collateral. Collateral you don't get back BECAUSE that is paid to the other party.

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:41:00 - [17] click posting the same thread in multiple forums is considered spam and is not allowed forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Contact Support - Report Bug - Join ISD

The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.17 23:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Kumu Honua If he offers a 100million reward for a 0.1 courier and the collateral is only 60,000 because he only wants you to move a warp core stabalizer... Oh come on. Nobody's going to offer 60,000 collateral to move a stab. They're gonna pretend it's a Tech 2 gun or something and bump it up as much as possible. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
AvatarADV	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:00:00 - [19] The real problem is that it's difficult to balance risk versus reward with courier contracts. There's a real risk involved with going into low-sec, even if it's just for a courier mission. Even if you're flying a shuttle, you've got to deal with implants, to say nothing of the cost of your clone. Why put millions of isk on the line to make a crappy 20k? Then, on top of that, you have to take the collateral into consideration. Basically, because of this, it's impractical to use courier contracts to move -valuable- items through low-sec. If the item's valuable, you have to put a high collateral on it or the transporter will just keep it. But if you put a high collateral on it, players who are risk-averse won't take your contract. And the ones who have nothing to lose also have no money to pony up as collateral. To attract the few players that are left, you have to offer a significant reward. But there's not many low-volume cargos that are WORTH paying a lot of money to move - and most of those are chock-full of super-valuable material, meaning you've got to set the collateral higher, meaning that even fewer players will dare take the contract... etc, etc. The math is a little different for big loads, but there's just not too many people flying around with big brass ones, blockade runners, and too much free time. ;p
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:04:00 - [20] Lets ignore the reward/risk problem entirely. That's a whole different ball of wax. The issue here is that isk is vanishing into nowhere when it really should be going back to the contractor. The courier isn't getting the reward when he fails, neither is the contractor. It's vanishing. This should not happen. It should go back to the contractor.
centaur I	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:10:00 - [21] the point is, they are just taking our money. as small amounts as it may be, the players are losing there ISK to CCP for no reason other that thats the way its set up...99% of all players dont realize it and never miss the isk. i was paying a big reward to transfer some cash to a nother player and it went south becuase it would not let him complete the contract...we decided to fail the contract because we figured the reward would come back right then. nope...ccp gets to keep it. I ASK WHY THEY GET TO KEEP IT? its like giving the goverment the reward money for your lost dog, if someone returns the dog they get the reward, if your dogs never retruned, the goverment keeps you money...its an outrage
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:28:00 - [22] Originally by: The Pointless So you've been needlessly bumping up the collateral? Reeeeeeeaaaaalll clever. Acutally, it is, you put a huge collateral, and when they fail, BOOM, you're rich(er). Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Tista	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:32:00 - [23] Originally by: The Pointless Originally by: Ariu Devine Originally by: The Pointless Consider it a penalty for not training Industrial and doing the stupid job himself. That is the most ignorant statement I have seen in awhile. Not really. Look at the courier jobs available in Essence right now. Many require you to shell out millions in collateral for what? Pulling 0.2m3 of some cheap Tech 1 crud out of 0.3 sec? Err... right. That doesn't seem fair to me. dont accept the courier job...
Lowanaera Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:40:00 - [24] I don't see why so many people complain about courier contracts being useless, I think you're just not offering a justified reward. I've used courier contracts to move valuable goods in low-sec and 0.0 plenty of times, you just have to put up a reasonable reward. Most times the items being transported are in the 50-75m value range, so I just do a flat 100m collateral and 10m reward. Every time it's been filled within a day or two. 10m is sufficient reward to make an industrialist flying a blockade runner do the 8-12 jumps, 100m isn't unreasonable but doesn't lose me any money if the cargo goes pop. Yeah, contracts for 30 jumps through 0.0 for 100k reward with 200m collateral are useless, but it's not the system that is broken, it's the users.
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.18 01:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Lowanaera I don't see why so many people complain about courier contracts being useless, I think you're just not offering a justified reward. I've used courier contracts to move valuable goods in low-sec and 0.0 plenty of times, you just have to put up a reasonable reward. Most times the items being transported are in the 50-75m value range, so I just do a flat 100m collateral and 10m reward. Every time it's been filled within a day or two. 10m is sufficient reward to make an industrialist flying a blockade runner do the 8-12 jumps, 100m isn't unreasonable but doesn't lose me any money if the cargo goes pop. Yeah, contracts for 30 jumps through 0.0 for 100k reward with 200m collateral are useless, but it's not the system that is broken, it's the users. Completely tangential to the OP's issue. The issue in this thread is that on a failed contract, the reward that is paid by the contractor is not being given back. It's simply vanishing.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.18 01:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Kumu Honua Lets ignore the reward/risk problem entirely. That's a whole different ball of wax. The issue here is that isk is vanishing into nowhere when it really should be going back to the contractor. The courier isn't getting the reward when he fails, neither is the contractor. It's vanishing. This should not happen. It should go back to the contractor. QFT This is nothing do with the details of courier missions. All people talking about this, take it elsewhere. If the situation is as the OP describes, it is broken. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.18 01:25:00 - [27] Edited by: The Pointless on 18/03/2007 01:28:03 Originally by: Crumplecorn QFT This is nothing do with the details of courier missions. All people talking about this, take it elsewhere. If the situation is as the OP describes, it is broken. To be honest, in some cases including this one, I think peeps need to get their heads out of their "Game mechanics" backsides. [EDIT]And why the heck is the OP saying that CCP keeps the ISK? They get nothing from it, there's no secret piggy bank that only CCP staff have access to, it goes to nobody, it just... disappears. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Kirja Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.18 01:29:00 - [28] this does sound wrong. so u got my support. it shouldnt be the way you described it.
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.18 02:09:00 - [29] Originally by: The Pointless To be honest, in some cases including this one, I think peeps need to get their heads out of their "Game mechanics" backsides. And in some cases including this one, I think you should think about game mechanics because that is the entire point of the thread. Quote: [EDIT]And why the heck is the OP saying that CCP keeps the ISK? They get nothing from it, there's no secret piggy bank that only CCP staff have access to, it goes to nobody, it just... disappears. Because he was ****ed off and not thinking rationally. Including his spamming tirade that got this thread locked for a while.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.18 02:14:00 - [30] That is ridiculous. You should only pay the "reward money" to the person who successfully completes the mission......as a "reward" for completing it. If they didn't complete it, why did you still lose the reward?! In your conversation with the GM, demand it be escalated to a more senior GM (as is your right). --------

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