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Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Hannobaal This is a great idea!!! I love the Rifter (although I like the Slasher better). I'd be glad to help with anything design or art related if you need it. I think I can get you the FMs you need. Let me look. Awesome--- Yeah, I've got stacks and stacks of FM's from various services and companies. What I really need are some ideas for the deck diagrams. I've got the scale worked out and I'll post it after a bit. We're going to have to assume that the dimensions I've drawn are "exactly" 15 meters in height and the average pilot (Not pod) is 2M in height. :) oh, don't worry, there will be a pod docking and retention module (optional)!!!! Your mom goes to college...
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Snake Doctor I just had this idea that a sony-like user manual would be too Caldari... If you ever decide to do a manual for a Caldari ship, I'll be happy to provide instructions in Japanese and the Engrish translation.
Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.25 19:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Snake Doctor I just had this idea that a sony-like user manual would be too Caldari... If you ever decide to do a manual for a Caldari ship, I'll be happy to provide instructions in Japanese and the Engrish translation. Dude, the Hawk is totally up next... :-D Your mom goes to college...
Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.26 12:46:00 - [34] More content coming tonight. I don't have the time to work on as much art during the week, but I'll try to get that scale up. I'm still wondering if anyone has any sort of deck diagram or cross section, or if I'll have to come up with that one on my own. This is a fairly huge project. Input is always welcome... :) Your mom goes to college...
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 14:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 24/03/2007 21:09:44 Edited by: Snake Doctor on 24/03/2007 15:42:12 (Original post)I've come up with a really fun, long-term project. I can't quite explain what it is at the moment, but does anyone have Rifter artwork, concept art, diagrams, etc? Specifically, devs and such, can I borrow your drawings? Edit: I've started work on this thing. Being the type to actually enjoy technical writing and engineering, as well as having 12 years background in illustration and publication, this should be FUN AS HELL for anyone who wants to submit information, pictures, fiction, or anything else! Did I mention this is simply a fan project? Nothing huge here but filesizes. If CCP tells me to stop, I'll kill it... 3-24-07 I have a rough draft of the cover! (coverness). It's very Army Field manual... Here's another- I worked up a side view and thought it would be cool to play with what a really cheap 3 color print would look like. I love it!Cheap tri color These tak e a while to work up, so probably won't have many more than that for a few days at a time... Ok if your going to base this on a Army book, dont forget the cartoons on how to do the job. Other then that cool idea. Sombody made lots of money doing the "Star trek" guides. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.03.26 14:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Snake Doctor Originally by: Tajidan ooooooh i love your idea m8, and i really would enjoy to help you out with Illustrations. But to keep it a bit more specific i¦d like to ask you what topics you gonna put in it, cuz there are so many things you could Illustrate that you¦ll never be finished ^^ Something like the Index of Winterblink would really help the people out who decide to do wicked stuff for the manual. I've been working on an overview and outline but it's coming pretty slow. If you can get your hands on the US Army manual for the OH-58 (TH-67?), or even AF F-16, that's the kind of thing I'll be using as a model. I'm just trying to work out scale right now--- I was so wrong about the size. It's a lot bigger than i thought it was For instance: \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \|Rifter \|person The scale is still off... I'm using the original art from the original site to get the sizes--- 15m high, 65m long. So far, i think my drawing may need to be "tweaked" for length... i think average EVE frigate size is considered around that of a Boeing 747.
Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:47:00 - [37] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 26/03/2007 19:44:13 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i think average EVE frigate size is considered around that of a Boeing 747. Yeah, I worked out the scale using 15m height as a base, also tweaked my drawing a bit. Here's the scale. (yes, I know, the 15m is way too high up. Was in a hurry...) Your mom goes to college...
Nicholas Barker Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:37:00 - [38] the rifter is alot bigger than you think. ------------------------------------- Am Orbitin' ur ship! Gettin' nossed!
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Snake Doctor Section 8-1. Reccomended Repair Adhesives :) Yeah but this is a Minmatar ship we're talking about. :) Your alphabetic help index will probably end up looking like this: D Duct Tape; see: 1.2.2 Hull components 1.2.3 Armor plating 1.3.1 Airlock seals 1.7.7 The tractor beam 1.7.8 Cargo management 3.2 Onboard first-aid 3.2.1 Emergency rations 8.1 Recomended repair adhesives I think that about covers ALL Minmitar ships Mods shrank my YARRR button "Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking..." ~Liz "Whiny Carebear" Kali
Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Nicholas Barker the rifter is alot bigger than you think. Oh, totally. I was scaling it and thinking "no way!!" to myself the whole time. That scale is pretty exacting, assuming the rifter is 65mX15m I will have to do an overhead tonight or something. Expect another drawing Wednesday and maybe a cab deck diagram on Thursday or so. I am open to submissions on this. I'd love for this to be a cool community project that lots of Eve "Engineers" can get their part into. I'd also love for the Devs to say something, but I know better than to ask outright. I'm sure if it get's big enough, they will either give me a smackdown or some sort of inspiration (hopefully the latter!). Your mom goes to college...

Nicholas Barker Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.26 23:05:00 - [41] it's about as long as a 747. I have the picture with the scales on but cba to upload it, i think it's on evefiles somewhere. ------------------------------------- Am Orbitin' ur ship! Gettin' nossed!
Snake Doctor	Posted - 2007.03.27 00:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Nicholas Barker it's about as long as a 747. I have the picture with the scales on but cba to upload it, i think it's on evefiles somewhere. That sounds about right, if you include the forward radar array on the rifter. 747 is 71M long, give or take. Overlayed. Rifter Flight Manual!
Tatsu Tahime	Posted - 2007.03.27 01:12:00 - [43] I am liking what I see! One thing: I remember seeing some concept art in Oveur's presentation to FF last year which showed a rifter in dock, hatch open and someone stepping out. Trying to find a copy of this picture but having no luck so far. This would maybe help set the scale a little...although I do recall thinking it seemed way too small in that shot. Deck plan: The rifter is mostly engine, given the number and distribution of exhaust vents. There needs to be space earmarked around the engine for the low and medium slot modules, as well as space for the one missile launcher/non-turret high slot module. The 130m3 of cargo space would probably be parcelled up throughout the center, the two front nacelles and the wingtips, as this would make sense for ammunition distribution in what is really a military vessel. Any deck plan also needs to address that always fun debate about crews. The pod pilot is probably in the pod-shaped centre nacelle between the booms, but where is the remainder of the crew? What sort of facilities would something like this have for them and is a portion of the specified cargo space to be used for supplies and the like? I'd imagine it would be something similar to a WW2 submarine. Cramped, lots of ducts, wiring and panels with minimal consideration for crew comfort or convenience. You could easily squeeze two to three people into a space about 3m x 5m x 2.5m for instance. Of course, then the question of access to the entire ship raises its head. For example, how would an engineer or mechanic crawl to the front nacelles or the wingtips? The booms are not enclosed, so you would need some sort of pressurised access tunnel. Also, given that the Rifter can fly missions involving the transport of passengers at least one of the cargo holds somewhere in the ship needs to be able to accommodate them, ideally in a manner that does not require a major refit. Lugging a couple dozen economy class seats in and out of the ship would not really fit into what I'd expect Minmatar design philosophy to be about. A more likely explanation would be jumpseats that fold into the floor or can be stowed in a similar compact format while making some begrudging considerations to safety and comfort.
Kolatha	Posted - 2007.03.27 04:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Tatsu Tahime The 130m3 of cargo space would probably be parcelled up throughout the center, the two front nacelles and the wingtips, as this would make sense for ammunition distribution in what is really a military vessel. Actually, looking closely at the model in game, the cargo compartment is situated in that central area between the "wings". There is enough room (130m3 is only a little more than 5x5x5)and those 2 big chain loops that run from the central compartment out and forward into the left and right booms carry the ammo to the forward hardpoints. The enclosed section of these booms would probably also contain a maintenance crawlway and the primary power and data chains. The "pod" in the middle of the ship was probably originally just a pilot's chair with a small, cramped area reconfigurable between sleeping and eating. Now the whole section is probably filled with the pod. The forward section of the left and right nacelles would contain the intakes for reaction mass as well as the main power plant and capacitor banks and the smaller engines. They would also contain the electricals and hard points for mounting the mid and low slots. The shield generators are the 2 slightly diiferent coloured sections in the middle of each boom and just behind the primary capacitor banks. The 3 primary engines at the rear are fed with reaction mass drawn in through the large intakes in front of the 2 main engines and supplimented by additional reaction mass delivered from the forward intakes. The 2 pods near the outer edge of the main wings contain mount points for either missile pods or other high powered modules like energy drainers (although you do need to divert power from one of the turret hardpoints in order to operate both of these missile hardpoints). This problem is resolved in the Wolf class assault ship by strapping on 2 external launcher points and hardwiring them directly into the grid.
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Kolatha Edited by: Kolatha on 27/03/2007 05:07:40 Originally by: Tatsu Tahime The 130m3 of cargo space would probably be parcelled up throughout the center, the two front nacelles and the wingtips, as this would make sense for ammunition distribution in what is really a military vessel. Actually, looking closely at the model in game, the cargo compartment is situated in that central area between the "wings". There is enough room (130m3 is only a little more than 5x5x5)and those 2 big chain loops that run from the central compartment out and forward into the left and right booms carry the ammo to the forward hardpoints. The enclosed section of these booms would probably also contain a maintenance crawlway and the primary power and data chains. The cargo compartment would probably also be pressurised as it provides the only path between the*****pit and the maintenance tubes in the booms. The cargo hold is accessed from the rear and blow the central engine. The "pod" in the middle of the ship was probably originally just a pilot's chair with a small, cramped area reconfigurable between sleeping and eating. Now the whole section is probably filled with the pod. The forward section of the left and right nacelles would contain the intakes for reaction mass as well as the main power plant and capacitor banks and the smaller engines. They would also contain the electricals and hard points for mounting the mid and low slots. The shield generators are the 2 slightly diiferent coloured sections in the middle of each boom and just behind the primary capacitor banks. The 3 primary engines at the rear are fed with reaction mass drawn in through the large intakes in front of the 2 main engines and supplimented by additional reaction mass delivered from the forward intakes. The 2 pods near the outer edge of the main wings contain mount points for either missile pods or other high powered modules like energy drainers (although you do need to divert power from one of the turret hardpoints in order to operate both of these missile hardpoints). This problem is resolved in the Wolf class assault ship by strapping on 2 external launcher points and hardwiring them directly into the grid. That's pretty well thought out. I like it--- but what about the pilot's quarters? Shouldn't there be a configuration for long in-space stays? Rifter Flight Manual!
Luigi Thirty Caldari FIRMA	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Snake Doctor I just had this idea that a sony-like user manual would be too Caldari... If you ever decide to do a manual for a Caldari ship, I'll be happy to provide instructions in Japanese and the Engrish translation. For warfare of electrons, to turn into value things consume Bird of Black? ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:((((
Tatsu Tahime	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Snake Doctor That's pretty well thought out. I like it--- but what about the pilot's quarters? Shouldn't there be a configuration for long in-space stays? Well, considering that the design philosophy of the Minmatar tends towards hit and run type tactics, provision for long-term tours of duty might not be as important. The Rifter does strike me as being the sort of ship that depends on either being deployed from a station or carrier/mothership. However there is nothing to say that one couldn't develop a standard and a long-range variant in terms of internal layout. Sacrificing a crew member for instance would add at least another four cubic metres I'd say. You can add a lot in terms of supplies and additional conveniences in that. Expanding personal and provision storage as well as providing slightly more room in the hygiene facilities are two elements that come to mind. Let's not forget that the modular approach to ship fitting would probably also be applied to the internal layout of the ship.
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.29 06:00:00 - [48] More goodies tomorrow! Working on the rest of the views for scale and then Deck diagrams. I figure the main section is 2.5 decks, with*****pit and some storage area. We're talking VERY limited space here.... Rifter Flight Manual!
Davlos Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.03.29 06:23:00 - [49] This is full of awesome. Watching this! ---------------
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.29 23:30:00 - [50] Update!!! I'm working on the overhead still. I had some problems with my tablet, but I've reinstalled and worked out the bugs. Overhead! It's unfinished, but I thought it would be cool to show my progress! :) Rifter Flight Manual!

Kolatha	Posted - 2007.03.30 08:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Snake Doctor That's pretty well thought out. I like it--- but what about the pilot's quarters? Shouldn't there be a configuration for long in-space stays? I was actually thinking, with the Minmatar philosophy, that it would be more like an oversized truckers cabin (the sleeping bay behind the seating). With just enough room to fit a comfy bed that folds up to give eating and cooking space and enough room for some basic exercise equipment. A small cubicle off to one side for a toilet and you have everything a person can live with (although not very comfortably). For more comfort you give up some of your cargo space.
Tanaka Nari	Posted - 2007.03.30 08:46:00 - [52] The pod version could of course dispense with some of the amenities non-pod pilots would need. I picture the pod as completely monitoring your body functions, including automatic IV nourishment (which saves a LOT of space otherwise needed for food). Seeing the Rifter we have in-game is the pod version, ordinary Rifters might well have less cargo space, maybe even less turrets or a different slot layout to accomodate the needs of a crew of 1-5(?) people. Great idea overall, I'l be happy to work on some specific areas of the writing if you run into a block. Can't draw for crap though.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.30 14:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Tajidan ooooooh i love your idea m8, and i really would enjoy to help you out with Illustrations. But to keep it a bit more specific i¦d like to ask you what topics you gonna put in it, cuz there are so many things you could Illustrate that you¦ll never be finished ^^ Something like the Index of Winterblink would really help the people out who decide to do wicked stuff for the manual. Dude, you owe me a drawing first -----
Inertia Foryu Caldari Quantum Warfare Research and Development	Posted - 2007.03.31 02:27:00 - [54] I noticed you have "Repair" in the title. I know from experience that Structural Repair Manuals can be thousands of pages long (Even typical fleet support repairs). What kind of repairs do you intend on including in your manual? Cheers, N.E.R.T. ------ Sci-Fi Fan? Geek? The WarpZone Podcast
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.31 03:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Inertia Foryu I noticed you have "Repair" in the title. I know from experience that Structural Repair Manuals can be thousands of pages long (Even typical fleet support repairs). What kind of repairs do you intend on including in your manual? Cheers, N.E.R.T. I thought about that yesterday and came up with one solution: Very simple field repairs that a skilled pilot would want to know. I.e. What simple fixes can you apply to critical systems to keep from getting screwed. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.31 03:32:00 - [56] I just scanned the front view. It's rather ink-heavy and it will need some love in order to fit the scale. I'll work on it tomorrow and post when I'm done. I'll also have an update on the overhead, command section, and a few deck diagrams. Playing around with it, I've noticed there is quite a bit more space available to the pilot for basic living quarters. I don't really think I have the talent to do a cutaway, but I'll give it a shot as well. Rifter Flight Manual!
Frederick Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:32:00 - [57] Originally by: Tatsu Tahime Any deck plan also needs to address that always fun debate about crews. The pod pilot is probably in the pod-shaped centre nacelle between the booms, but where is the remainder of the crew? What sort of facilities would something like this have for them and is a portion of the specified cargo space to be used for supplies and the like? It's a frigate. One of the fundemental design philosophies around them is that the only crew they need is the pod pilot. It allows them to pull high-g manouvers without worrying about squishing fragile people who aren't in a nice goo filled shock absorbing pod. Reference for this is Gallente-Caldari War: The War Drones On. Frigate tech was developed by the Caldari in response to Gallente drone tech, once they completed negotiations with the Jovians pods allowed them to reduce crew requirements to one (the pod pilot) in most cases.

Hunter.	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:36:00 - [58] Awesome stuff :) ------ Easy steps to Bug Reporting eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*******k

Tatsu Tahime	Posted - 2007.03.31 14:55:00 - [59] Originally by: Frederick Lyrus Frigate tech was developed by the Caldari in response to Gallente drone tech, once they completed negotiations with the Jovians pods allowed them to reduce crew requirements to one (the pod pilot) in most cases. That may be true for the high-tech Caldari and Gallente. While the Minmatar do have pod pilots I believe one could make the argument that they may rely on more low tech solutions for some aspects of ship maintenance and operation, including crews. The design ethos of the Minmatar looks to me to be ships cobbled together out of whatever can be found. While they may have advanced to slicker, more sophisticated designs now (as in the Hurricane and Maelstrom), their original designs would probably have used human crews simply because people are an easily available resource. Limiting production capability because you cannot produce, purchase or steal the sophisticated maintenance systems the Caldari and Gallente can put into their frigates would have not been feasible considering that they were engaged in a rebellion at the time most of their ship designs came about. Is it feasible to consider variations of the Rifter design for this manual? As in track the development from Rifter Mk I through to the T2 variants. Rifter Mk I would have a crew and less sophisticated systems. Rifter Mk II would have more sophisticated equipment, developed as the Minmatar Republic gained some resources and was able to better equip and redesign their ships. Maybe it had one additional crew member to the pilot, just to maintain these systems and be on hand for emergency repairs. Rifter Mk III would finally dispense with the crew altogether, be completely automated and then lead to the T2 variants.
Snake Doctor Second Wave	Posted - 2007.03.31 21:00:00 - [60] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 31/03/2007 20:58:30 Oh man, I've been working hard today... Two new pics. The command section, semi complete with some approximate measurements. I hurried the engines for the sake of posting, I'll fix them later. And, of course, the scale. Before anyone says anything--- The scale is wrong. Remember what I said about the front view needing love to fit the scale? Well, I gave it a lot of love, but I just wasn't able to fix the engines. I'll have to redraw it. Maybe this time I'll think about perspective, etc. OR you could see it this way: Mistakes only add to the "Minmatarness" of the manual. Believe me, there will be a few ;) Rifter Flight Manual!



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