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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14550
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Posted - 2016.10.26 11:39:36 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone! This thread will be about the changes to Command Ship skill requirements planned for the Ascension expansion this November.
Earlier in the development cycle we had been investigating making stat changes to the Command Ships at the same time as this release, but after further investigation we have decided to hold off on stat and bonus changes for now. We'll observe how the Command Burst introduction changes the meta around these ships and make changes informed by that information in the near future.
However we are going forward with the planned reduction in skill requirements for Command Ships in the initial Ascension release.
Currently training the Command Ship skill requires the following prerequisites:
- Spaceship Command 5
- Warfare Link Specialist 4
- Armored Warfare 5
- Siege Warfare 5
- Information Warfare 5
- Skirmish Warfare 5
After the Ascension release training the skill will require the following prerequisites:
- Spaceship Command 5
- Command Burst Specialist 4 (formerly known as Warfare Link Specialist)
- Wing Command 4
This new set of prerequisites cuts more than a month off of the total training time to enter Command Ships.
Beside the Command Ship skill itself, each Command Ship will continue to require its corresponding Racial Battlecruiser skill at level 5. No other changes are currently planned for the Command Ship prerequisites (there have been a few test versions of the skill requirements on the test servers in recent weeks but the information in this thread is the most up-to-date version of the design).
This thread will be the place for feedback on these CS changes, and we look forward to your feedback.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group
62
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Posted - 2016.10.26 11:45:39 -
[2] - Quote
Edit: re-read the OP - so Armored Command/Shield Command skills are no longer a requirement from the looks of it which was what was feared after seeing the requirements on sisi - Good change ty
My skim read original post preserved for entertainment.
Quote:The question I think that is on everyone's mind right now:
- If I can fly a Command ship now and have max skills for it - will you split the skills or fill in the gaps like with the Battlecruiser and Destroyer skill split. Or will you allow us to continue flying them and using them like the carrier skill changes?
Any token feel better for those of us who have maxed out the skills for these ships suddenly getting the goal posts moved, or is this just a HTFU situation?
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Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
171
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Posted - 2016.10.26 12:41:13 -
[3] - Quote
I'm alright with the reduction in requirements. These ships need re-balancing though so I hope you don't delay that much longer. |
Galinius Valgani
Albertross Mining Corp. Off The Reservation.
42
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Posted - 2016.10.26 12:44:52 -
[4] - Quote
Really looking forward to the changes. But there are so much changes in Ascension already that I think it is great to wait.
Good changes...Finally may sit in a Command Ship :D |
Cassiel Seraphim
EVE University Ivy League
46
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:20:09 -
[5] - Quote
Could you confirm that while the skill Command Ships won't require more than those skills, each individual Command Ship will require both racial warfare skills and thus, as a consequence, some people who can fly these ships today won't come November ... and that change is intentional?
Because currently anyone who trained Command Ships in the olden days, who doesn't have all racial Warfare skills trained, will be unable to undock in their Command Ships come November. As you cannot undock a ship unless you meet the requirements. |
Galinius Valgani
Albertross Mining Corp. Off The Reservation.
42
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:22:44 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:... (there have been a few test versions of the skill requirements on the test servers in recent weeks but the information in this thread is the most up-to-date version of the design). .
Read what he wrote here....
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Cassiel Seraphim
EVE University Ivy League
46
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:45:05 -
[7] - Quote
Galinius Valgani wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... (there have been a few test versions of the skill requirements on the test servers in recent weeks but the information in this thread is the most up-to-date version of the design). . Read what he wrote here.... Yes, but the combination of the new way of locking you out of ships you don't have the skills for (to stop people from using Omega-required ships when they go back to Alpha-status I presume) and the new ship requirements, that will make for a huge change.
It means people who can currently fly command ships, but doesn't have the racial warfare skills, will no longer be able to undock in them. They can sit in them, fit them, but as soon as they hit the undock button they will be denied. |
Celeste Benal
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
47
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:46:23 -
[8] - Quote
Wing Command 4 was not required before? I do not think it should be required at all. |
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
89
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:51:10 -
[9] - Quote
Will there be any changes to the CS themselves and their combat capabilities, or is it just the skill requirements that are being changed? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14553
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Posted - 2016.10.26 13:57:12 -
[10] - Quote
Skyler Hawk wrote:Will there be any changes to the CS themselves and their combat capabilities, or is it just the skill requirements that are being changed?
At this time just the skill requirements. We'll be observing how the use of these ships changes with the introduction of Command Bursts and making changes as necessary in a future patch.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
13
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:16:23 -
[11] - Quote
Fozzie can't you give CS 3 rig slots? And give extra mid +1 across the board? |
Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1552
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:Could you confirm that while the skill Command Ships won't require more than those skills, each individual Command Ship will require both racial warfare skills and thus, as a consequence, some people who can fly these ships today won't come November ... and that change is intentional?
Because currently anyone who trained Command Ships in the olden days, who doesn't have all racial Warfare skills trained, will be unable to undock in their Command Ships come November. As you cannot undock a ship unless you meet the requirements.
Not empty quoting. |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1541
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:46:38 -
[13] - Quote
Really good choice on the new skills, requiring armored warfare spec to fly a vulture for example, was just silly. |
Skir Skor
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
38
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:20:55 -
[14] - Quote
One of the fundamental reasons ongrid links aren't a thing is they fail to perform the task very well. Too slow, poor projection and when links fitted, lack tank. By failing to give a ship rebalance your nerfing CS/T3 links into the ground. |
Tristan Renois
Woopatang Primary.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:54:10 -
[15] - Quote
I have searched the forums and haven't seen this question yet, so I'll post it here in the hopes that it is relevant enough.
Along with the skill requirement changes to command ships, I was curious about the way that the booster modules themselves apply their bonuses. For example, is the 32% bonus from rapid deployment in the skirmish booster section additive or multiplicative?
As an example, lets say I have a 275 m/s cruiser and I apply an afterburner 2 ( +169% bonus ) to get 702 m/s without any command boosting.
Does the command booster % alter the afterburner effect in an additive way to become ( 169 + 32 ) [ 201% base speed ] or does it apply in a multiplicative fashion ( 169% + ( 0.32 * 169) ) [ 223 % base speed ]
Maybe I'm not asking in the right place, but hopefully someone can shed light on how the math works. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1769
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:01:41 -
[16] - Quote
In before someone asks the other skills to be refunded as free SP because they are now useless!!
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
145
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:09:58 -
[17] - Quote
Looking at a command ship on TQ, all you need to fly the ship is racial BC 5 and CS 1. I presume that if you already have CS trained, it doesn't matter what the prereqs are, just like every other time they have changed the skills that are prereqs for spaceship command skills. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2756
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Posted - 2016.10.26 23:00:51 -
[18] - Quote
This looks like a good start for rebalancing Command Ships and On-Grid boosting.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Cassiel Seraphim
EVE University Ivy League
47
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:05:54 -
[19] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Looking at a command ship on TQ, all you need to fly the ship is racial BC 5 and CS 1. I presume that if you already have CS trained, it doesn't matter what the prereqs are, just like every other time they have changed the skills that are prereqs for spaceship command skills. You obviously haven't paid attention or tried things on Singularity.
Currently on Singularity you need to have every single pre-requisite skill in order to interact with a ship (assemble, board, undock etc). So even if you have Command Ships trained, Battlecruiser V trained etc, you'll still need to train the two racial warfare skills up to IV before you can use the ship again.
I'm guessing this is either a simple as the new Shield Command (former Siege Warfare) and Skirmish Command (former Skirmish Warfare), for a Sleipnir for example, becoming a "primary" skill requirement instead of a secondary skill required for the primary skill Command Ships ... or it has to do with the way they implemented the alpha vs omega clone "downgrade" that locks you out of ships you no longer have the skills for.
This means that a lot of older pilots will no longer be able to fly ships they currently can fly. Thus won't "be able to fly what they can already fly", which has often been CCP's stance on changes. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
738
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:35:35 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:Will there be any changes to the CS themselves and their combat capabilities, or is it just the skill requirements that are being changed? At this time just the skill requirements. We'll be observing how the use of these ships changes with the introduction of Command Bursts and making changes as necessary in a future patch. So will the command burst modules themselves have the same CPU / PG requirement as current T2 warfare links?
If so then I would suggest that command ships are already pretty well balanced and not much in the way of nerfs / buffs are needed.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3683
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Posted - 2016.10.27 01:42:48 -
[21] - Quote
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:You obviously haven't paid attention or tried things on Singularity.
Currently on Singularity you need to have every single pre-requisite skill in order to interact with a ship (assemble, board, undock etc). So even if you have Command Ships trained, Battlecruiser V trained etc, you'll still need to train the two racial warfare skills up to IV before you can use the ship again.
I'm guessing this is either a simple as the new Shield Command (former Siege Warfare) and Skirmish Command (former Skirmish Warfare), for a Sleipnir for example, becoming a "primary" skill requirement instead of a secondary skill required for the primary skill Command Ships ... or it has to do with the way they implemented the alpha vs omega clone "downgrade" that locks you out of ships you no longer have the skills for.
This means that a lot of older pilots will no longer be able to fly ships they currently can fly. Thus won't "be able to fly what they can already fly", which has often been CCP's stance on changes. This is just the change from secondary skills to primary. CCP, you need to put this into the change to first post, since currently those skills are including in the CS requirements and it makes it sound like you are totally removing the Command skills, not moving them onto the ships themselves. |
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2016.10.27 05:50:57 -
[22] - Quote
Brown Pathfinder wrote:Fozzie can't you give CS 3 rig slots? And give extra mid +1 across the board?
Why should a Command Ship be the only Tech II ships to have three rig slots? The whole point of limiting Tech II ships to two rig slots was to give Tech I ships some advantage over Tech II ships.
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Galinius Valgani
Albertross Mining Corp. Off The Reservation.
42
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Posted - 2016.10.27 06:11:34 -
[23] - Quote
Since you need a rigslot now when you want to install more Command Bursts I can understand this. But since you have to be on grid I even would advise against using 1 Rig and simply use 2 Bursts per CS and bring more Commandships? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.27 06:16:14 -
[24] - Quote
Galinius Valgani wrote:Since you need a rigslot now when you want to install more Command Bursts I can understand this. But since you have to be on grid I even would advise against using 1 Rig and simply use 2 Bursts per CS and bring more Commandships?
Or you could ask 5 buddies to fly battlecruisers to spit the links on you.
The question remains, why do we need wing command 4 when we have a gang of 6 pilots, not 50000?
Just a question, no worries. Command ships are so overprices now that nobody but overpaid carebears and blob-muppets would want to fly them anyway.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1554
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:42:46 -
[25] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cassiel Seraphim wrote:You obviously haven't paid attention or tried things on Singularity.
Currently on Singularity you need to have every single pre-requisite skill in order to interact with a ship (assemble, board, undock etc). So even if you have Command Ships trained, Battlecruiser V trained etc, you'll still need to train the two racial warfare skills up to IV before you can use the ship again.
I'm guessing this is either a simple as the new Shield Command (former Siege Warfare) and Skirmish Command (former Skirmish Warfare), for a Sleipnir for example, becoming a "primary" skill requirement instead of a secondary skill required for the primary skill Command Ships ... or it has to do with the way they implemented the alpha vs omega clone "downgrade" that locks you out of ships you no longer have the skills for.
This means that a lot of older pilots will no longer be able to fly ships they currently can fly. Thus won't "be able to fly what they can already fly", which has often been CCP's stance on changes. This is just the change from secondary skills to primary. CCP, you need to put this into the change to first post, since currently those skills are including in the CS requirements and it makes it sound like you are totally removing the Command skills, not moving them onto the ships themselves.
And moreover, means old dudes probably won't be able to fly them come patch day if this is the case.
Last I checked sisi, the link skills were moved out of command ships but into the hull, which means despite having several guys with command ship 5, they're not going to be able to fly it.
Maybe.
WTB CONFIRMATION |
Syri Taneka
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
145
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Posted - 2016.10.27 16:38:48 -
[26] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cassiel Seraphim wrote:You obviously haven't paid attention or tried things on Singularity.
Currently on Singularity you need to have every single pre-requisite skill in order to interact with a ship (assemble, board, undock etc). So even if you have Command Ships trained, Battlecruiser V trained etc, you'll still need to train the two racial warfare skills up to IV before you can use the ship again.
I'm guessing this is either a simple as the new Shield Command (former Siege Warfare) and Skirmish Command (former Skirmish Warfare), for a Sleipnir for example, becoming a "primary" skill requirement instead of a secondary skill required for the primary skill Command Ships ... or it has to do with the way they implemented the alpha vs omega clone "downgrade" that locks you out of ships you no longer have the skills for.
This means that a lot of older pilots will no longer be able to fly ships they currently can fly. Thus won't "be able to fly what they can already fly", which has often been CCP's stance on changes. This is just the change from secondary skills to primary. CCP, you need to put this into the change to first post, since currently those skills are including in the CS requirements and it makes it sound like you are totally removing the Command skills, not moving them onto the ships themselves. And moreover, means old dudes probably won't be able to fly them come patch day if this is the case. Last I checked sisi, the link skills were moved out of command ships but into the hull, which means despite having several guys with command ship 5, they're not going to be able to fly it. Maybe. WTB CONFIRMATION
I'm... not exactly sure what you're talking about.
Do you mean the racial ship skills (Frigate, Cruiser, BC) or the Warfare skills each CS gives ship-race-based buffs to?
If you mean the Warfare skills... I guess what you're trying to say is that you fly Vulture/Nighthawk or Eos/Astarte but never bothered running a Sensor Integrity Link because you don't like your fleet mates enough to boost their lock range and sensor strengths? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3684
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Posted - 2016.10.27 21:06:55 -
[27] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:
I'm... not exactly sure what you're talking about.
Do you mean the racial ship skills (Frigate, Cruiser, BC) or the Warfare skills each CS gives ship-race-based buffs to?
If you mean the Warfare skills... I guess what you're trying to say is that you fly Vulture/Nighthawk or Eos/Astarte but never bothered running a Sensor Integrity Link because you don't like your fleet mates enough to boost their lock range and sensor strengths?
There are a bunch of people who trained command ships back when you needed Logistics & HAC V amongst other things to be able to fly them. And may not have trained all the warfare skills. Not all the CS were originally primarily link boats and some made good DPS boats even then. When CCP did the previous skill change to CS, they (self included) could all still fly all the CS they previously could, to the same ability they previously could. As DPS boats if you didn't have the link skills trained, or as links if you did.
If CCP stick with what is in Sisi less than 2 weeks from live, all those people suddenly can't fly those ships, which breaks CCP's normal rule of 'If you could fly it before you can after'.
Now they have made exceptions to this in the past when it was only a short train to sort it out, but they also gave months of notice of those exceptions to allow people plenty of time to fit the new training in without screwing over the general skill plan. In this case, they aren't giving any notice at all, they haven't even officially commented on it if the Sisi build is old and those requirements won't exist, or if that is what we will actually be getting live. And what existing CS pilots are meant to do. |
Selnix
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
28
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Posted - 2016.10.28 00:27:48 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:Will there be any changes to the CS themselves and their combat capabilities, or is it just the skill requirements that are being changed? At this time just the skill requirements. We'll be observing how the use of these ships changes with the introduction of Command Bursts and making changes as necessary in a future patch.
Any chance of getting the third innate burst fitting back that we currently have? If we weren't losing the skill based HP/sig/etc boosts I'd understand as the third would not be needed to give the same boosts you currently can.
Is it really necessary for us to throw away half of our rig slots by default to fill the same role with the same effectiveness we would have previously been able to without that loss? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3684
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Posted - 2016.10.28 00:31:01 -
[29] - Quote
Selnix wrote:
Any chance of getting the third innate burst fitting back that we currently have? If we weren't losing the skill based HP/sig/etc boosts I'd understand as the third would not be needed to give the same boosts you currently can.
Is it really necessary for us to throw away half of our rig slots by default to fill the same role with the same effectiveness we would have previously been able to without that loss?
You know they turned 2 of the previous boosts into a single boost right? So the third boost you are asking for actually gives you more power than before. |
Selnix
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
28
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Posted - 2016.10.28 01:23:37 -
[30] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Selnix wrote:
Any chance of getting the third innate burst fitting back that we currently have? If we weren't losing the skill based HP/sig/etc boosts I'd understand as the third would not be needed to give the same boosts you currently can.
Is it really necessary for us to throw away half of our rig slots by default to fill the same role with the same effectiveness we would have previously been able to without that loss?
You know they turned 2 of the previous boosts into a single boost right? So the third boost you are asking for actually gives you more power than before.
The third was driven solely by a bonus passed down based on your leadership skills regardless of what links you fitted m8. |
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