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Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:19:00 - [1] Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f****** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls ----------
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:20:00 - [2] I think possibly plex rats give a higher sec rating boost than asteroid rats. Also, did you kill any ppl while ratting? That might be it.
Quantium Arklight Menzies' Bastards	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:22:00 - [3] where are you ratting? i spent a few hours in 0.0 space and went from a -0.2 to a 0.3
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Quantium Arklight where are you ratting? i spent a few hours in 0.0 space and went from a -0.2 to a 0.3 right, well i am -5 so think about it... to get to 0.3 would take me about 24 hours non-stop npcing ITS WORSE THAN DEATH ITSELF ----------
Quantium Arklight Menzies' Bastards	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Quantium Arklight where are you ratting? i spent a few hours in 0.0 space and went from a -0.2 to a 0.3 right, well i am -5 so think about it... to get to 0.3 would take me about 24 hours non-stop npcing ITS WORSE THAN DEATH ITSELF ouch a -5.0 bad boy.. just do a little ratting a day, you'll chip away at it slowly but you won't go as nuts
Alumion Asteroid Preserve Patrol	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Alumion on 25/03/2007 21:31:05 I'm -7.6 I wanted to fix it once, got as far as -6.3, then couldn't resist destroying 2 ships and podding the pilots Yo Ho, Yo Ho, A Pirate's Life For Me Fixing my sec status clearly shouldn't be this hard ---
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:37:00 - [7] Good saying, if you cant do the time dont do the crime. Ive been -6 something, and ive been forced to get it up again ;) It was worth it :D
Veto1024	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Butter Dog PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls You had your fun killing other players.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:40:00 - [9] Dont pod everything in sight, sorry no pity here.
Alumion Asteroid Preserve Patrol	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:42:00 - [10] That SQUISH sound is worth it ---

Lost Troll Caldari LUBE INC.	Posted - 2007.03.25 21:58:00 - [11] You may want to train Fast Talk, and that's if it still not broke.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Butter Dog PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Well yes it's a game, but it's a game where you got your fun wrecking other people's stuff. Seems fair.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:23:00 - [13] My ex-corpie went from -10 to -1.4 in about 3 days. That was 3 days of 8 hour ratting mind. Do the crime, do the time :D
MeestaPenni Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Alumion Edited by: Alumion on 25/03/2007 21:39:47 Edited by: Alumion on 25/03/2007 21:31:05 I'm -7.6 I wanted to fix it once, got as far as -6.3, then couldn't resist destroying 2 ships and podding the pilots Yo Ho, Yo Ho, A Pirate's Life For Me edit - lines removed as they made me look like I still want to fix my sec I pirate I like!!
AirWalker Amarr Galactic Response Team	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:28:00 - [15] train fast talk to 5 it helps bi
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:34:00 - [16] Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:44 Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:29 Like The Slayer said; If you cant do the time, dont do the crime if I was a Dev you would be taking even longer to get that bit of a jump in rating Now having said that, I have played other online games where Pkers or pirates or what ever they might be called in the game can do dangerous quests to loose the karma or negative rating they have gained from Pking, Piracy, etc. Might be a way for CCP to go, have some agents that aren't easy to find nor get to that can hand out missions that are vere tough and would raise negative sec ratings byu more than ratting now does. Just a thought It's just a game........Or is it?????
SupaFlyTNT Darwin With Attitude	Posted - 2007.03.25 23:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Alumion That SQUISH sound is worth it Exactly
Tissaphernes	Posted - 2007.03.25 23:43:00 - [18] Originally by: MotoTsume Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:44 Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:29 Like The Slayer said; If you cant do the time, dont do the crime if I was a Dev you would be taking even longer to get that bit of a jump in rating Now having said that, I have played other online games where Pkers or pirates or what ever they might be called in the game can do dangerous quests to loose the karma or negative rating they have gained from Pking, Piracy, etc. Might be a way for CCP to go, have some agents that aren't easy to find nor get to that can hand out missions that are vere tough and would raise negative sec ratings byu more than ratting now does. Just a thought Perhaps if you could do penal missions that didn't reward you at all except for an increase to your sec status, that would be a good idea. In a sense you'd be sacrificing the monetary and material gains for security status gains. Personally, my main used to be -5.0. It sucked, but it seemed fair to put in the time bringing his sec back up. After all, I did wee on a lot of people's bonfires. I think the only thing that is unfair is that the sec status drop and subsequent (optional) regain is much tougher on newer players.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.25 23:46:00 - [19] Originally by: MotoTsume Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:44 Edited by: MotoTsume on 25/03/2007 22:31:29 Like The Slayer said; If you cant do the time, dont do the crime if I was a Dev you would be taking even longer to get that bit of a jump in rating Now having said that, I have played other online games where Pkers or pirates or what ever they might be called in the game can do dangerous quests to loose the karma or negative rating they have gained from Pking, Piracy, etc. Might be a way for CCP to go, have some agents that aren't easy to find nor get to that can hand out missions that are vere tough and would raise negative sec ratings byu more than ratting now does. Just a thought There is something sililar: with exploration you can find some CONCORD agent. As failing the missions(I failed it) reduce your security status, completing it with success should increase your sec. statut. The only dubt is if you can speak with CONCORD with sec status -2 or worse
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.25 23:48:00 - [20] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 25/03/2007 23:44:57 Don't think about it as a "have to get it to +0.6!" Think of it as, umm, collecting ISK for a treat day, or...err...civil service instead of jail...ah pooie... I have two solutions for this: A: All the ISK you make(is registered in the wallet) between TWO standing lowering thingies(in certain time limit) is the cost of bringing back your security status. So basicly you're paying back to society what you earned from your nortynes(it's a word!). Or my fav, B: You do hard time. Your character is stripped of implants, jumpclones included, and you sit a number of days in jail. Say, 1 day for for -1.0 Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.

Lilian Long	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:06:00 - [21] Edited by: Lilian Long on 26/03/2007 00:03:18 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Or my fav, B: You do hard time. Your character is stripped of implants, jumpclones included, and you sit a number of days in jail. Say, 1 day for for -1.0 Jails are stupid. I've beta-tested another game and thought I try out pirating. Got put in jail for two hours online time, before I knew, what happened. Well, I made a new char to avoid that stupid jail and now I haven't played it for a few months. I don't play 'pvp' games that try to teach pvp'ers not to kill other players. It's stupid, since I'm there to fight other players in the 1st place and not to get 'turned' into a carebear by force.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:18:00 - [22] I think the issue with security status is this: I agree, if you do the crime, do the time, yadda yadda. The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. You can drop from 0 to -10 in a day or two if you really go mad pirating. And you don't even need a huge ship to do it. Can you go back up in a day? No, and you can only go back up in three days or longer if you have a big powerful ship AND access to 0.0 to kill the bs spawns. Now please don't come at me with "but if you murder someone IRL you have to spend the rest of your life in jail!". This is not life. It's supposed to be fun even if you kill people for a living for a while. My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Becoming a pirate/PvPer should not mean jumping down a hole that you can't climb out of. Sure, jumping into a pool that you have to swim a while to leave is fine, but the current system allows only the priveleged to regain sec status within a reasonable amount of time. And even then it's not that reasonable. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Lilian Long Edited by: Lilian Long on 26/03/2007 00:03:18 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Or my fav, B: You do hard time. Your character is stripped of implants, jumpclones included, and you sit a number of days in jail. Say, 1 day for for -1.0 Jails are stupid. I've beta-tested another game and thought I try out pirating. Got put in jail for two hours online time, before I knew, what happened. Well, I made a new char to avoid that stupid jail and now I haven't played it for a few months. I don't play 'pvp' games that try to teach pvp'ers not to kill other players. It's stupid, since I'm there to fight other players in the 1st place and not to get 'turned' into a carebear by force. Oh i didn't mean "forced" jail It's like a "Oh i've learnt my lesson because i couldn't go to jita where the sun shines once in 5 frames so put me in jail!" kinda thing. Optional retribution? But the "i can only rat in 0.2 space and so forth". It's a social game, get a friend or two...even a pirate has some!...and go hunting big baddies Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.
xeom Exit 13	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:28:00 - [24] Xeom's guide to going from -10.0 to 1.7! You will first need a few things -Friends to rat with(Isk is split,But you get the same ammount of sec as if you killed it alone) -A Ventrillo server -BooZE -Lots of dirty topics to talk about If you do this for 4-7 hours a day you will lose it in two weeks! Remeber fast talk kiddies! --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:31:00 - [25] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 26/03/2007 00:30:49 Originally by: Jex Jast I think the issue with security status is this: I agree, if you do the crime, do the time, yadda yadda. The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. You can drop from 0 to -10 in a day or two if you really go mad pirating. And you don't even need a huge ship to do it. Can you go back up in a day? No, and you can only go back up in three days or longer if you have a big powerful ship AND access to 0.0 to kill the bs spawns. Now please don't come at me with "but if you murder someone IRL you have to spend the rest of your life in jail!". This is not life. It's supposed to be fun even if you kill people for a living for a while. My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Becoming a pirate/PvPer should not mean jumping down a hole that you can't climb out of. Sure, jumping into a pool that you have to swim a while to leave is fine, but the current system allows only the priveleged to regain sec status within a reasonable amount of time. And even then it's not that reasonable. have to nic-pic on the "fun" part, "murdering" someone might be fun for you. but chances are, its not for the victim. another distinction. if you pod someone in War, no standing loss.. vs Pod an unwilling victum (who probley ISNT having fun anyways.) = standing loss... now in the WORST case scenario.. say some newb with a set of +3 implants (pretty standards.) without jump clones. (yeah yeah, I know the "dont fly what you cant afford to lose" is coming...) 1 podding = (at current prices around 14 mill a pop x 5..) = 70 million... now, I dunno about you, (or any leet players out there..) 70 million can be a week's worth of grinding for isk for the casual player... the loss in TIME is kinda balanced. (and now: the "dont fly what you can afford to loss argument" in short, I will bring up the "you dont have to pod someone who would drop no loot" argument....) you choose to get the squishy noise.... (I recorded it =P...) edit: besides, real pirates dont care for random murders... unless theres profit in it =P -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Cipher7 on 26/03/2007 00:39:45 Do the crime, do the time. Or heck just stay -10.
xeom Exit 13	Posted - 2007.03.26 00:44:00 - [27] Originally by: CAREBEARS HAI GUYS! I AM A CAREBEAR! And because some guy played EVE online differently then me he should have to BE BORED FOR WEEKS ON END AND PAY FOR IT, HAHAHAHAHA! PS:IM FULL OF SH** --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.26 01:11:00 - [28] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 26/03/2007 01:09:40 Originally by: xeom Originally by: CAREBEARS HAI GUYS! I AM A CAREBEAR! And because some guy played EVE online differently then me he should have to BE BORED FOR WEEKS ON END AND PAY FOR IT, HAHAHAHAHA! PS:IM FULL OF SH** ah hell, I will bite.. even if its flame bait from a troll...pretty sure is directed at me. .... I dont even know where to start... for one... a "pvper" (not the ones who are cool, dont whine/complain/insult/call other people names when they cant think of an arguement..) complaining about not doing the time when he does the crime... seems.. wrong... I mean, arent all pvper suppose to be tough and and man enough to deal with a consequences? in the event for the feebleminded: what I said earlier. if you pod someone full of implants, which cost MONEY which takes TIME to get. you should suffer the conseqences of needing to work for the good policeman until the amount of time/work you did for him equals to the time you wasted on that player without any reason than to kill him... (until pods start dropping implants, theres no reason to pod people randomly, other than not paying an ransom.) and yes, I myself have grinded from -5 back to slightly positive... is not that bad, just a week, or 3 day marathan. Remember, the standing count is only once per 15 minutes or so.. you dont have to work too hard.. just relax.. chat with buddies.. do something around the house... edit: funny thing is, there are people who work just as hard to get to -10.0 .. =P as for the Gankbe... I mean.. pvpers who dont want standing loss.. get your corp to Wardec the Privateers.... those guys are fun =P Tons of targets. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.26 01:17:00 - [29] Originally by: xeom Xeom's guide to going from -10.0 to 1.7! You will first need a few things -Friends to rat with(Isk is split,But you get the same ammount of sec as if you killed it alone) -A Ventrillo server -BooZE -Lots of dirty topics to talk about If you do this for 4-7 hours a day you will lose it in two weeks! Remeber fast talk kiddies! Sounds like the latest diet plan. Honestly I think I'll try it...hm. How do get smashed in my home as someone who cannot legally drink...well I guess I'll have to work on that part. And as for the replies to my post, I see where you people are coming from, but really, it's supposed to be a part of the game. Try pirating for a while and tell me it's not an issue. As far as the "don't attack that which brings no profit" I pod people who won't pay ransom on their pod. If I didn't they would never pay ransom. (knowing that 70 mil isk is a week's grind for a casual player makes me feel better about being poor...) And yes, I've got mates in my corp. However, they aren't looking for me to go boosting my sec nor would they spend their time helping me with it when they could be profiting from a hunt. I do have a mate in Astral Wolves, however, who is a carebear. I'll pay him a visit... ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.26 01:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: xeom Xeom's guide to going from -10.0 to 1.7! You will first need a few things -Friends to rat with(Isk is split,But you get the same ammount of sec as if you killed it alone) -A Ventrillo server -BooZE -Lots of dirty topics to talk about If you do this for 4-7 hours a day you will lose it in two weeks! Remeber fast talk kiddies! Sounds like the latest diet plan. Honestly I think I'll try it...hm. How do get smashed in my home as someone who cannot legally drink...well I guess I'll have to work on that part.... pssst go to your local highschool for the errrm "special smokes" .. pretty sure theres one everywhere if you are in Europe or Canada =P -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur

Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.26 02:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Petrothian Tong Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: xeom Xeom's guide to going from -10.0 to 1.7! You will first need a few things -Friends to rat with(Isk is split,But you get the same ammount of sec as if you killed it alone) -A Ventrillo server -BooZE -Lots of dirty topics to talk about If you do this for 4-7 hours a day you will lose it in two weeks! Remeber fast talk kiddies! Sounds like the latest diet plan. Honestly I think I'll try it...hm. How do get smashed in my home as someone who cannot legally drink...well I guess I'll have to work on that part.... pssst go to your local highschool for the errrm "special smokes" .. pretty sure theres one everywhere if you are in Europe or Canada =P Thanks for the hint, but: 1) I go to that high school (only for another month). 2) I have a respiratory disease so smoking = death. 3) It's not the issue of acquisition as much as it is my parents (remember I'm still in high school) wondering why I'm screaming slurredly into the microphone... 4) The amount of meds I'm on for part 2 reacts poorly with alcohol... However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:00:00 - [32] Hey Baghdad Butter Dog =D
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Jex Jast However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. Smarties. Bottle of mountain dew. Tin foil and some lotion. Not saying a word more but YOU KNOW... Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Jex Jast However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. Smarties. Bottle of mountain dew. Tin foil and some lotion. Not saying a word more but YOU KNOW... Let me guess...it also involves 25 haulers, 50 smart bombs, 3000 co-processors and a dead cat. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Jex Jast Let me guess...it also involves 25 haulers, 50 smart bombs, 3000 co-processors and a dead cat. Only if you're willing to spend the next week in a semi comatosed state Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.
Mr Mozzie Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Jex Jast I think the issue with security status is this: . . . The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. I completely disagree. Pirates shouldn't be able to recover from a crime with ten minutes of ratting. Sec status is essentially the drawback for commiting crimes. It isn't that bad a drawback either. All it does is flags you as a criminal, lets people attack you first, and prevents you from flying into lowsec. Anyhoo, sec status repping isn't intended to be a loophole around sec status for regular pirates. After all a bloodthirsty criminal with a good record is a massive contradiction. If someone wants to be a pirate either take the sec hit on the chest or accept that having a good record involves a lot of work.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.03.26 04:12:00 - [37] Cant do the time Dont do the crime Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.26 05:50:00 - [38] Im for the death penalty. Raising sec should require you to die ingame. Literally. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
Nyabinghi Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:07:00 - [39] Sec hits reside in this weird twilight zone between the NPC side of the game and the player side. It always seemed rather odd to me that you can pod and rob another player or players and then get back into good standing with the rest of EVE by profitably ratting in belts. Meanwhile the actual victim is S.O.L. ***
Sol Halcon Minmatar The Exile Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:41:00 - [40] Originally by: Lost Troll You may want to train Fast Talk, and that's if it still not broke. It works

Ender Fal Caldari Bastage Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Jex Jast However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. Smarties. Bottle of mountain dew. Tin foil and some lotion. Not saying a word more but YOU KNOW... Let me guess...it also involves 25 haulers, 50 smart bombs, 3000 co-processors and a dead cat. get it right, 300 co-proc or a dead cat. Not both, you do that and you'll get to 10.0 status......
Qolde Minmatar Guardian Heroes Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:56:00 - [42] If you can kill a ship, you can kill a pod. No need to prove it after every fight. If you were actually belt pirating instead of gate camping, you could kill a few rats as you mosey on through an empty system to cover the sec penalty from ship kills.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.26 07:54:00 - [43] Grow a set of balls like the people you pk'd did when they went into low sec with pve set ups. Head out to 0.0 where the real rats are put yourself at risk for once and your sec status will move fast. Killing rats in .7 systems where you are all nice and safe like you candy-ass pirates makes for a painful experience.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.26 09:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Ender Fal Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Jex Jast However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. Smarties. Bottle of mountain dew. Tin foil and some lotion. Not saying a word more but YOU KNOW... Let me guess...it also involves 25 haulers, 50 smart bombs, 3000 co-processors and a dead cat. get it right, 300 co-proc or a dead cat. Not both, you do that and you'll get to 10.0 status...... Thank you. I was hoping someone would catch that reference. Why haven't you guys been posting at all lately? We miss your threads. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Fuglife Huff Technologies Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:08:00 - [45] BD, just grab an enyo/diemos and goto fountain and npc up there, you only get a sec hit every 15minutes from the highest bounty ship you kill. So fit a cloak go afk after you kill a spawn for 15mins cloak up at a safe spot go do whatever irl then rinse and repeat. Fountains good because the bs cant hit crap so an enyo with neutrons and damage mods tears up bs I know Welsh Wizard! 3rd Best pvper in Eve
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:20:00 - [46] Chipping in with my 2 ISK ... You only get an increase once per 15 minutes maximum, for the "best" rat you killed in that period. The only rats that really give a really decent increase are battleships.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:27:00 - [47] Originally by: Butter Dog Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f**** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls OH GOD NO! Why is mining for a ship so expensive? After 2 hours of mining I only have 1% of the ore that I need. I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another roid implode. PS - yes I know it was my fault for carelessy hauling past a gate camp but this is a game and I need it to be fun pls. Suck it up Pirate! -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Please don't read this signature.**
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Jex Jast I think the issue with security status is this: I agree, if you do the crime, do the time, yadda yadda. The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. You can drop from 0 to -10 in a day or two if you really go mad pirating. And you don't even need a huge ship to do it. Can you go back up in a day? No, and you can only go back up in three days or longer if you have a big powerful ship AND access to 0.0 to kill the bs spawns. Now please don't come at me with "but if you murder someone IRL you have to spend the rest of your life in jail!". This is not life. It's supposed to be fun even if you kill people for a living for a while. My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Becoming a pirate/PvPer should not mean jumping down a hole that you can't climb out of. Sure, jumping into a pool that you have to swim a while to leave is fine, but the current system allows only the priveleged to regain sec status within a reasonable amount of time. And even then it's not that reasonable. Uh, and how do you think the ship that you killed was paid for? By mining or ratting for hours. Get yourself a ratting battlecruiser (Drakes are great for this).
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:49:00 - [49] Edited by: Roshan longshot on 26/03/2007 10:48:25 Originally by: Butter Dog Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f**** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Think about this...how much fun did you ruin for other players to get that -5.0? If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Szprinkoth Sponsz Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:58:00 - [50] The rat with the highest sec stat increase every 15 minutes is what counts towards your sec status. The timer is reset with session changes (like all other timers such as aggro etc.). Kill a BS rat, jump to the next system, kill a BS, jump, rinse repeat profit???

Spiffy Nickel	Posted - 2007.03.26 11:01:00 - [51] Edited by: Spiffy Nickel on 26/03/2007 10:59:06 I'd just like to point out the fact that you only gain security every 20 or so minutes after killing an npc. You can kill 3 trillion gurista battleships or 1 gurista battleship in the same 20 minute interval and you will still only get the security increase for killing one battleship (something like .18 or whatever). So best way to gain security is only to kill a bs every 20 or so minutes, go do something else, check when your security is updated, kill another, go do something for 20 minutes, etc. As for solutions I think it is this issue that needs to be fixed. Make it so that you gain security per npc killed and not per every 20 minute interval. hope ccp listens. edit oh yes, to the op, so because of this, hate to break it to you, doesnt matter how much you killed in those two hours, maximum you mightve received about 6-8 security gains... which really isn't a lot. CCP needs to fix that.
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.03.26 11:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Butter Dog Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f****** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls As they say 'Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time'. Its a game, but suprise suprise not everyone is happy when you ganked them or otherwise committed 'those criminal' acts against them. Your a proven criminal, a menace to society, and now your punishment is 24hours virtual labour. If its not fun for you now, then maybe you might be 'rehabilitated' by the long strive back to 0 status, or you could simply stay in 0.0 or low sec space.
Motorcycle Emptiness Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.26 11:47:00 - [53] You had your fun killing players who were most likely easy targets in PvE setups, who you then proceeded to pod. The sec rating mechanism is to ensure that players who do this are eventually banned from entering empire space where all the cheap things are Flashing White Box (rank 1)
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:28:00 - [54] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Butter Dog PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Well yes it's a game, but it's a game where you got your fun wrecking other people's stuff. Seems fair. What about if I was antipirating? Same thing happens. Sec status is just strange. No real logic or reason... and its just a dull grind getting it back up. Utterly pointless. ----------
Kira's Shadow	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Butter Dog Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f****** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Low security standing would be meaningless if it were too easy to gain standing. You made a choice, assume the consequences...
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Grow a set of balls like the people you pk'd did when they went into low sec with pve set ups. Head out to 0.0 where the real rats are put yourself at risk for once and your sec status will move fast. Killing rats in .7 systems where you are all nice and safe like you candy-ass pirates makes for a painful experience. lol, funny - this is NPCin'g in 0.0 btw, you do know you take a sec status hit for killing pirates, right? That the game doesnt distinguish between right and wrong? ----------
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:02:00 - [57] Edited by: Soporo on 26/03/2007 20:00:36 Quote: btw, you do know you take a sec status hit for killing pirates, right? That the game doesnt distinguish between right and wrong? Yeah, that right there is pretty idiotic. Couple that with the lame and useless Bounty "system" and you got weaksacue extreme. There's no rational reason, that I can see, that CCP doesnt allow anyone to be able to agress a -sec status player without taking a sec hit. What pew pewing I do, I try to limit to wartargets and 0.0, as security status is important to me, particularly with Factional Warfare coming. Remove this obstacle and you WILL get more people pew pew'ing randomly in LowSec without resorting to alts.
Spartaen	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:17:00 - [58] I raised my sec using only Ibises & leeching corpmate's kills (seriously)
Laocoon Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:17:00 - [59] ^ me - Lao Veto. Corp
Crna Udovica Amarr Bastage Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.27 00:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Ender Fal Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Jex Jast However, I'm sure I can find some way of intoxicating myself...I just need to get creative. Smarties. Bottle of mountain dew. Tin foil and some lotion. Not saying a word more but YOU KNOW... Let me guess...it also involves 25 haulers, 50 smart bombs, 3000 co-processors and a dead cat. get it right, 300 co-proc or a dead cat. Not both, you do that and you'll get to 10.0 status...... Thank you. I was hoping someone would catch that reference. Why haven't you guys been posting at all lately? We miss your threads. Halod Crane is MIA and MrMann hasent been up to posting.

Nyabinghi Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.27 01:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Butter Dog PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Well yes it's a game, but it's a game where you got your fun wrecking other people's stuff. Seems fair. What about if I was antipirating? Same thing happens. Sec status is just strange. No real logic or reason... and its just a dull grind getting it back up. Utterly pointless. Yep, that's what sucks about the two lines of code that goes into CONCORD. Now the Devs say they want people to police low sec themselves but then they keep this archaic model of police enforcement around to make that as difficult as possible. ***
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.27 10:11:00 - [62] Problem is the fact that whether you kill a frigate or a carrier you get the same sec hit. Meaning you can be a very low-power pirate and get down below -5 pretty quick. Not the same case for going back up. Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Take into account everything I've killed: let's say 20 frigates, 10 cruisers, and 2 bcs. That's actually kind of a high estimate as I've never gone too crazy with the gankage. And let's put in the pods as well, that's about 10. 20 frigates + 10 cruisers + 2 bcs + 10 pods - that to me is perhaps a month of work or less? Whatever the case I'm in a hurry I'll finish this later but that's a start, discuss it as you like. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.27 18:39:00 - [63] Originally by: Jex Jast Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Aside from the whole illogical way sec status works, this is the key point. People say, 'oh just NPC for 7 hours a day for two weeks and you'll be fine'. WHAT? I have a life. A job. Friends. A social life. This is a computer game, not my job or my social life. And I don't particularly wish to spend the next 3 months doing nothing but NPC'ing when I log on because I have done some pirating or anti-pirating. ----------
Athren Soulsteal Gallente Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair	Posted - 2007.03.27 19:28:00 - [64] Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 27/03/2007 19:25:13 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jex Jast Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Aside from the whole illogical way sec status works, this is the key point. People say, 'oh just NPC for 7 hours a day for two weeks and you'll be fine'. WHAT? I have a life. A job. Friends. A social life. This is a computer game, not my job or my social life. And I don't particularly wish to spend the next 3 months doing nothing but NPC'ing when I log on because I have done some pirating or anti-pirating. and your victims don't? Risk Vrs reward. You risk your sec rating and being kicked out of empire every time you break the law. The reward you get an easy kill, a kill mail and what ever pleasure you derive from runing some one elses day, week or month. The way most games handle it and it would fix the bounty system is to not pod for the bounty but scoop the pod and turn the criminal over to a jail. And yes this was proposed back in 02/03 for how to handle criminals. .2 gain per day so in 5 days you gain 1.0 which most players, except the pkers (CCP/BOD alts), was fair. They were like "What pay for our crimes,,, noi we will conver you all to the dark side!" so they designed the current bounty system. Quote: Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE. I wish I could fit all the Quote
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.27 19:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Athren Soulsteal Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 27/03/2007 19:25:13 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jex Jast Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Aside from the whole illogical way sec status works, this is the key point. People say, 'oh just NPC for 7 hours a day for two weeks and you'll be fine'. WHAT? I have a life. A job. Friends. A social life. This is a computer game, not my job or my social life. And I don't particularly wish to spend the next 3 months doing nothing but NPC'ing when I log on because I have done some pirating or anti-pirating. and your victims don't? Risk Vrs reward. You risk your sec rating and being kicked out of empire every time you break the law. The reward you get an easy kill, a kill mail and what ever pleasure you derive from runing some one elses day, week or month. The way most games handle it and it would fix the bounty system is to not pod for the bounty but scoop the pod and turn the criminal over to a jail. And yes this was proposed back in 02/03 for how to handle criminals. .2 gain per day so in 5 days you gain 1.0 which most players, except the pkers (CCP/BOD alts), was fair. They were like "What pay for our crimes,,, noi we will conver you all to the dark side!" so they designed the current bounty system. You are the epitome of judgmental, assuming people. First of all, our victims (most of them) don't spend 7 hours a day, 7 days a week, to get their cruiser. I got a cruiser within perhaps 5 days of casual play with a trial account. Even if that was for some reason ridiculously fast, say two weeks of casual play. That's still much less time than two weeks of 7 hour grinding. Secondly, "risk vs reward"??? It's not a risk, it's definite that our sec status will go down and we be kicked out of empire. Meanwhile, the "reward" you speak of is pretty worthless. "An easy kill" means nothing to most of us, and a killmail is worth 0 isk. And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. And honestly, jail time? While that's realistic, I doubt anyone but a true carebear would find it reasonable to stop someone from playing the game while they still pay subscription just because they chose a certain, encouraged and essential style of play. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog I'm not happy, it doesn't have a goat!- Tirg
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.03.27 19:53:00 - [66] Originally by: Jex Jast Problem is the fact that whether you kill a frigate or a carrier you get the same sec hit. Meaning you can be a very low-power pirate and get down below -5 pretty quick. Not the same case for going back up. Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Take into account everything I've killed: let's say 20 frigates, 10 cruisers, and 2 bcs. That's actually kind of a high estimate as I've never gone too crazy with the gankage. And let's put in the pods as well, that's about 10. 20 frigates + 10 cruisers + 2 bcs + 10 pods - that to me is perhaps a month of work or less? Whatever the case I'm in a hurry I'll finish this later but that's a start, discuss it as you like. First off,, I want to say that I think it should take you as long to gain security status as it does for your victims to earn back what you took....which can be days/weeks/months depending one your luck and prowess. That being said.... The further from 0.0 you are the faster the gain. You will go from -10 to -5 faster then -5 to 0.0 You get gains once every 15 minutes and the gain is based on the toughest bad guy you kill. Soo,, do like I do,, play it easy. Fly to a nice .1-.4 system and kill one cruiser pirate every 15 minutes. And you will get WAY more then .1 a day! you get like .03 - .05 every 15 minutes Side note... don't shoot people in your gang if they are not in your corp,, you take a security hit. (which is why I got to play sec-status catch up).
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.03.27 19:57:00 - [67] Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault."
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that sec status hits applies to killing pirates too. Anti-pirates often have terrible sec status because the system is so incredibly primitive. ----------
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that sec status hits applies to killing pirates too. Anti-pirates often have terrible sec status because the system is so incredibly primitive. YEa,, that is a whole other moral delema... that needs fixing. Some of my friends in the merc side of our alliance look like pirates because of their sec status, but are VERY far from it. I could have sworn tho we were talking about pirates tho... sorry.. my bad.
Naim Obeji Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.27 21:28:00 - [70] Originally by: Jex Jast I think the issue with security status is this: I agree, if you do the crime, do the time, yadda yadda. The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. You can drop from 0 to -10 in a day or two if you really go mad pirating. And you don't even need a huge ship to do it. Can you go back up in a day? No, and you can only go back up in three days or longer if you have a big powerful ship AND access to 0.0 to kill the bs spawns. Now please don't come at me with "but if you murder someone IRL you have to spend the rest of your life in jail!". This is not life. It's supposed to be fun even if you kill people for a living for a while. My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Becoming a pirate/PvPer should not mean jumping down a hole that you can't climb out of. Sure, jumping into a pool that you have to swim a while to leave is fine, but the current system allows only the priveleged to regain sec status within a reasonable amount of time. And even then it's not that reasonable. I've been down in the lower depths of sec status and I agree that it is difficult and mind-numbing to work yourself back up. I don't agree that anything needs to change or that the current system is unfair. Yes...you go down a lot faster than you can go up. Depending upon who or what you destroyed to get your negative status, you probably destroyed or stole things more quickly that the guy to lost the stuff acquired it. It's not just your trip down the security status ladder that must be considered here. Destroying pods is the real sec status killer, of course. It takes longer to lose sec status just taking out ships. If you do it indiscriminantly, then you suffer faster. You always have the option of not podding people. You gain nothing but the satisfying squishÖ. Trust me, I know the sound well. Of course, if you do pod..you have quite possibly destroyed someone's implants, which may have taken them weeks to save up for or earn, depending upon what they are doing and what was lost. One can always go to 0.0 space and kill and ranson people without sec status hits. Of course...that can be a bit more problematic because the natives are often a bit more capable when it comes to defending themselves. As has been said (over and over...lol), don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I believe CCP has done well in balancing this particular issue.

Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.27 21:36:00 - [71] Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." That's exactly why I would shoot a security guard at a bank. I've got nothing against him, it's the money I want, and if he's going to stop me I have to stop him first. In this case there's no guard, so it's just the target. Who has the money/loot. To the general thread: And pods are ransomable, if they don't pay part-price to keep their implants, that's their decision. And after all, it was their decision to enter low sec anyway. Risk vs. reward as you say. I do like the point of relating the speed of gain to the speed of loss for items that I destroyed. That being said, I don't think the system needs fixing, just a small boost. It works the way it is, it's just a long grind. A really long grind... Whatever the case may be, it is as it is and so I'll do what I must. Adaptation, that's nature. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog I'm not happy, it doesn't have a goat!- Tirg
Naim Obeji Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.27 21:48:00 - [72] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jex Jast Now I've started my grind, and it seems I can get up 0.1 per day if I actually let the rest of my life exist. This means I have 76 days left before I can return to being 0.0. Aside from the whole illogical way sec status works, this is the key point. People say, 'oh just NPC for 7 hours a day for two weeks and you'll be fine'. WHAT? I have a life. A job. Friends. A social life. This is a computer game, not my job or my social life. And I don't particularly wish to spend the next 3 months doing nothing but NPC'ing when I log on because I have done some pirating or anti-pirating. Then, (once again), don't do what you did. It's pretty simple, really. I don't kill people in low sec that much anymore because I really don't feel like dealing with the consequences. Still, if my sec status is high enough or its the right enemy entity, sometimes I can't help myself. You did mention something that I do think is borked a bit. It doesn't seem to me that you should lose sec status if you're shooting at pirates. Then again, I don't think you do if they are -5.0 or worse, do ya? If someone is themself of negative sec status, then the person killing them probably shouldn't take a sec hit.
Kua Immortal RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.27 21:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Thor Xian Im for the death penalty. Raising sec should require you to die ingame. Literally. CCP, are you listening?
Sral TBear letter of marque	Posted - 2007.03.27 22:21:00 - [74] im doing it the wierd way, but it kinda gives me all i need.... I run lvl 4 missions my sec status with kills is always around +3 to -1.9 when it get abit low i go earning some iskies and run missions...when im bored of that im out there blowing the sec status off.....its like a savings account....put some in...spend it when you have the urge...... this combined with abit 0.0 ratting...well realy not that hard to do.... TBear Signature Removed
Jane Vladmir Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:15:00 - [75] I've twice gone through -10.0 to -1.9. Took me about two weeks the second time. Terrible chore. I'll tell you a the easiest way to do it if you're willing to pay for the information. Contact me ingame.
Drykor Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.03.28 02:31:00 - [76] I think the system is fine as it is. Being a criminal should have some penalties and it should be hard to get back to positive sec. If anything then gaining sec in 0.0 should be removed, it's lawless space after all, you can't drop in sec status either there, why would concord reward you killing pirate npc's there. Before you say 'carebear!', check my sec status in game plz kthxbye
Misanth	Posted - 2007.03.28 02:34:00 - [77] Originally by: Jex Jast I think the issue with security status is this: I agree, if you do the crime, do the time, yadda yadda. The problem is that the TIME is horribly disproportionate to the CRIME. You can drop from 0 to -10 in a day or two if you really go mad pirating. And you don't even need a huge ship to do it. Can you go back up in a day? No, and you can only go back up in three days or longer if you have a big powerful ship AND access to 0.0 to kill the bs spawns. Now please don't come at me with "but if you murder someone IRL you have to spend the rest of your life in jail!". This is not life. It's supposed to be fun even if you kill people for a living for a while. My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Becoming a pirate/PvPer should not mean jumping down a hole that you can't climb out of. Sure, jumping into a pool that you have to swim a while to leave is fine, but the current system allows only the priveleged to regain sec status within a reasonable amount of time. And even then it's not that reasonable. Pod people in 0.0, can pop as many as you want. Problem solved. I see pirates more or less daily in 0.0, they seem to be mobile enough to me. For me the problem is rather the opposite, I have to break pirate gatecamps to even get to Empire to drop my sec status. Irony, huh?
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.28 02:41:00 - [78] Originally by: Drykor I think the system is fine as it is. Being a criminal should have some penalties and it should be hard to get back to positive sec. Of course. It's just that it's way too much of a chore at the moment. Although actually, I shouldn't have spoken without experience. 0.0 space is often quite abandoned around where I live, so I just hopped on in there in a Caracal (yep) and did some rat smashing today. It's kind of fun, and rewarding (I must be pretty lucky I've been getting beta hull mod/ss mark thingy i-stab/x5 engine enervators) iskwise and lootwise. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog I'm not happy, it doesn't have a goat!- Tirg
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.28 07:52:00 - [79] "People say, 'oh just NPC for 7 hours a day for two weeks and you'll be fine'. WHAT? I have a life. A job. Friends. A social life. " Like many have pointed out the person you ganked also has those things and it most likely takes alot more to replace the ship you blew up than it does to fix your sec rating. So either man up and live the life of a pirate and stop ***** footing around your sec status, or stop whining like a spoiled child that everything isn;t easy for you in eve. the only real issue that could use fixing is that you should not receive sec hit for killing people with poor sec ratings ( which i thought is how it was?????)
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.28 09:53:00 - [80] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Like many have pointed out the person you ganked also has those things and it most likely takes alot more to replace the ship you blew up than it does to fix your sec rating. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog I'm not happy, it doesn't have a goat!- Tirg

Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 10:58:00 - [81] As far as I can tell the useless bounty system was ment to compensate for the security loss. 'Killing' any player in this game is a security hit. So maybe a few million ISK would be worth killing a pirate...not. Here is a unique way of doing things...STOP killing people! The solution to your problem has been right there all the time! You dont want to grind, dont kill. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.28 11:37:00 - [82] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/03/2007 11:34:20 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that sec status hits applies to killing pirates too. Anti-pirates often have terrible sec status because the system is so incredibly primitive. Butter, when you went on your holiday.. I'm curious.. did you only anti-pirate? Just curious... Holiday Blog Day 1: I moved back to my spiritual EVE home, the dead-end lowsec constellation of Sukanan, in Tash-Murkon region. <snip> And so it was. Having settled in, I decided to go hunting. Seaching the belts for prey with a Covert Ops, I found the first target. Eyeing him up for size and position, I knew instinctively this would be a tough and worthy opponent - a 6 week old noob in a mining Catalyst awaited me. <snip> With a 14 man noob mining corp now my faithful and devoted slaves, I knew this was going to be a fruitful vacation... In Teshkat and Keshirou alone you must have run up quite a sec loss: Sabaco in a Prophecy, Nox Jericho in a Badger and then a Griffin, Eloise Trakand in a Sacrilege, John Serebelum in a Caracal and then his pod , the list goes on and on for several days. I'm wondering if they're all pirates? It seems to me a days worth of boring effort is very little to pay for all the 'fun' you must have had.
Motorcycle Emptiness Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.28 11:47:00 - [83] anti-pirates do not exist. The amount of times I was attacked by a so called 'anti-pirate' when on my trial accounts (according to their bio) is bloody laughable. My sec status was normally 0.0 or higher. Unless pirates are saying they are anti pirate to lull people into a false sense of security? in which case they are pathetic. Flashing White Box (rank 1)
Bon Hedus Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:22:00 - [84] Edited by: Bon Hedus on 28/03/2007 12:33:28 Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 27/03/2007 18:38:20 Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f****** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls Well, back in the early days of Eve, around the time of Mo0 and other well known pirate corps, there was a great cry heard by the Devs pertaining to the ease of raising security status. It seems that pirates could have their fun, hit their low status (-5 or so) and then with literally a few hours of ratting, be back above -5 so that they became untouchable. The new system was introduced to put consequences in for actions... Do the crime, do the time. Enjoy your low sec and maybe you will reconsider the next time a hauler or easy prey comes by -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms
Viale Skull and Bones Inc	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:31:00 - [85] Kill the fool, but dont pod him. His shame in defeat is punishment enough no? Why inconvenience yourself for some bloodlust
Losmandy VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:37:00 - [86] Tough t***y, get on with it bad boy
sunshine bear Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:47:00 - [87] I won't bother answering to the people who parrot "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" like retards. The time taken to kill a frigate and its pod in a belt is about 30 seconds. The time to NPC that sec status back up is several days. And that's IF you have a battleship, and a safe system in a .0 region. Not everyone has access to this. People pirate for fun, it's their way of doing things. My previous character was -10. Part of the reason I moved on was because of sec status. A good example of why this system is broken is my alliance, privateers. It is, essentially, a form of piracy. We have decced so many alliances and corps that all of empire is an indiscriminate killing zone/moshpit. Yet we get no sec status hits for blowing up ships, and podding pilots who often have no idea they are at war with us. On the other hand, poor average joe in his frigate, who wanted to start his pirate career suddenly finds himself at -5 sec status, with not much extra cash because belt targets 99% of the time have crap loot, and finds he is forced to a) live in lowsec, putting up with inflated prices or b) somehow get a BS and a safe .0 region to NPC in for days if not weeks so he can get back to empire. Being a pirate doesn't make you special or tough, it's just a way to PVP. And currently its punishment is stupidley out of proportion. Fact.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2007.03.28 13:08:00 - [88] Criminals always think the punishment is too tough, and that nobody understands that they were just trying to get by. Can't have your cake and eat it too. I suggest you try blaming society. Wait, I guess you are. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
sunshine bear Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 13:29:00 - [89] Originally by: Hamshoe Criminals always think the punishment is too tough, and that nobody understands that they were just trying to get by. Can't have your cake and eat it too. I suggest you try blaming society. Wait, I guess you are. Seriously, stop hyping up piracy. It's a damn game. A way of playing a GAME. Don't compare it to RL law breaking and punishments, as they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Something does need to be changed about sec status, as it's a very inneficient method of dealing with people who pirate.
Mr Mozzie Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:09:00 - [90] Edited by: Mr Mozzie on 28/03/2007 14:05:50 Do pirates really expect to gank people like crazy and then expect fly through highsec with impunity?

silmira	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:40:00 - [91] no offense but if you think it's fun to be a vandal in game to break stuff other ppl so called carebears work in game and save up for than yeah you should pay for it. heck i think penalties now for pirating is too low. If you going run up jolly rogers than be prepared to pay the consequences. Be thankful that you can work off your minus status off, real pirates hung from gibbets for their crimes.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:42:00 - [92] Originally by: sunshine bear I won't bother answering to the people who parrot "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" like retards. The time taken to kill a frigate and its pod in a belt is about 30 seconds. The time to NPC that sec status back up is several days. And that's IF you have a battleship, and a safe system in a .0 region. Fair enough but what about the pirates that: * Blow up a hauler (T1/T2/whatever) carrying hundreds of millions of Isk worth of stuff? * Pod people? I'd be interested to hear some pirates actually comment on that because so far all the ones in this thread are living up (or should that be down) to my expectations by completely ignoring the victim. I propose a simple rule:It should take the pirate as long to get their sec-status back as it took their victim to earn the destroyed items. Sec-status should therefore be based on the type of ship. Perhaps there is some way to link it to the kill-mail system. Getting a sec-status hit for blowing up someone with a -ve status is wrong. I think that the sec-status delta should be in the opposite direction to the victim's sec-status. I did think about adding a restriction that this only applies if the killer has +ve standing but decided against it. If pirates want to blow each other up to get back into Empire let them. Final comment:Do any of the self-proclaimed pirates in this thread agree that it should take you as long as to recover from a single sec-status hit as it takes the victim to recover from the attack? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Please don't read this signature.
Matroshka Amarr G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.03.28 14:54:00 - [93] Originally by: Andrue Final comment:Do any of the self-proclaimed pirates in this thread agree that it should take you as long as to recover from a single sec-status hit as it takes the victim to recover from the attack? How could you possibly judge that time frame?
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:04:00 - [94] Dammit, I'm trying to quit forum whoring but this just bugged me no end... Originally by: Jex Jast First of all, our victims (most of them) don't spend 7 hours a day, 7 days a week, to get their cruiser. I got a cruiser within perhaps 5 days of casual play with a trial account. Even if that was for some reason ridiculously fast, say two weeks of casual play. That's still much less time than two weeks of 7 hour grinding. Don't pop cruisers then! If the cost of the ship you're attacking does not outweigh the cost of the sec-hit, DON'T ATTACK THE SHIP!! Nobody is forcing you to! If a -1 sec hit takes you 5 hours (for example) to fix, then that sec hit is worth 5 hours worth of money making. So if you earn 50mil isk every 5 hours in your usual money-making activities, then a -1 hit is worth 50mil. Clear so far? So why spend what is otherwise 50mils worth of time destroying what's going to net you... what, 5mil? How much do you really expect to get from a T1 cruiser anyway? That's just plain dumb. Originally by: Jex Jast Secondly, "risk vs reward"??? It's not a risk, it's definite that our sec status will go down and we be kicked out of empire. Meanwhile, the "reward" you speak of is pretty worthless. "An easy kill" means nothing to most of us, and a killmail is worth 0 isk. If the reward is as crap as you say, why are you even bothering? Wait for - or hunt down - proper targets like the industrials, the battleships, the T2 ships and the occasional capital ships like all the GOOD pirate corps do (veto, black rabbits, etc) and rake in billions instead of whining that you not only didn't get rich but got banned from empire for popping cruisers. Props to you for not being a killmail *** like so many have become recently but you're not making much sense dude. Originally by:** Jex Jast And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. What's the thrill in killing a cruiser exactly? Unless you're really just very new (are you?) then it's just pants attacking T1 cruisers. They can't put up a decent fight the majority of the time because; a - you're tanking sentries and therefore are in a battleship/T2omgwtf ship that vastly out-classes cruisers (it'd have to by definition in order to tank sentries) b - you're attacking a ratter at a belt. Ratting setup != PvP setup. c - you're attacking a miner at a belt. Despite just being funnier than above, ditto. Not to mention I've NEVER gotten decent loot from a T1 cruiser. Even those T2 fitted were barely worth the sec hit. What do T2 med guns go for... 1-3 mil each? Feh. Originally by: Jex Jast And honestly, jail time? While that's realistic, I doubt anyone but a true carebear would find it reasonable to stop someone from playing the game while they still pay subscription just because they chose a certain, encouraged and essential style of play. It's not a punishment, it's a consequence. All actions have consequences. The consequence of pirating is exclusion from empire. Your subsription does not entitle you to skip consequences for your actions. If you don't like the consequences then.. buhu2u? That's just the way it is. It's perfectly fair, because the same rules apply to everyone else. ___ Nice one CCP
Viale Skull and Bones Inc	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:09:00 - [95] The security status system punishes indiscriminantly. Justice is blind :) If individuals choose to go out of their way to lower their security status, to a point where they can no longer access high sec, then surely there must be an isk value that can represent that inability to enter 0.5 -> 1.0.
Deitre Cibrus Defile. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:37:00 - [96] Went from -10 to 1.9 in 5 days non stop ratting god i nearly commited suicide =/ ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre It's missing the goat!- Tirg
Hamshoe	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:31:00 - [97] Edited by: Hamshoe on 28/03/2007 17:28:31 Originally by: sunshine bear Seriously, stop hyping up piracy. It's a damn game. A way of playing a GAME. Don't compare it to RL law breaking and punishments, as they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The "don't compare RL and the game" mantra is usually shorthand for "I can't think of a reason to support my desires, so stop pointing it out", but in this case I won't quibble. Fine, it's a game without any relationship to RL. The rules of the game say you take a sec hit for some aggressive actions. Now, is the problem that you don't understand the rules, or that you want to be playing another game? Originally by: sunshine bear [Something does need to be changed about sec status, as it's a very inneficient method of dealing with people who pirate. Not that we want to be hyping up piracy in relation to sec status, of course... but if it's inefficient, what's the problem? Sounds like the OP's complaint is that it's a bit over zealous. And I can relate. I always thought it was a unnecessary burden on my time and fun that I have to move a checker clear across the board to get king-ed. And chess would be so much easier if all of my pieces could jump. Rules just pull me out of my happy place. Everything should work the way I want it to. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:48:00 - [98] Prats whine all the time about the pain of getting sec status up. Thing I cant figure out is, why tf do they pod EVERYTHING, (which causes the biggest hit), then whine about the hit? "I like the sound." "I cant resist." "It's fun." Are common answers. I get this picture of some pimply kid with a sugar buzz and an attention span of a goldfish, giggling and twitching and basically the kind of guy you want to bi*ch slap. Right or wrong, its hard to shake. I can understand podding in 0.0 where you want the guy to get a free trip back far away. It actually makes sense in this case.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.28 18:10:00 - [99] "You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. " PLease hush noob boy, the fact is you don;t get the sec hit unless you pod and the only benifit to podding most players is the uber killmail so go peddle your pathetic whines elsewhere ( like mommy ) if you can't handle playing with crap sec ratings.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.28 19:24:00 - [100] Originally by: Jane Vladmir I've twice gone through -10.0 to -1.9. Took me about two weeks the second time. Terrible chore. I'll tell you a the easiest way to do it if you're willing to pay for the information. Contact me ingame. I assume you're talking about the 'kill NPC, change system, kill another NPC' approach. Thats what I'm doing. Still takes ages, still incredibly boring (though not quite as long). ----------

Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.28 19:27:00 - [101] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/03/2007 11:34:20 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that sec status hits applies to killing pirates too. Anti-pirates often have terrible sec status because the system is so incredibly primitive. Butter, when you went on your holiday.. I'm curious.. did you only anti-pirate? Just curious... Holiday Blog Day 1: I moved back to my spiritual EVE home, the dead-end lowsec constellation of Sukanan, in Tash-Murkon region. <snip> And so it was. Having settled in, I decided to go hunting. Seaching the belts for prey with a Covert Ops, I found the first target. Eyeing him up for size and position, I knew instinctively this would be a tough and worthy opponent - a 6 week old noob in a mining Catalyst awaited me. <snip> With a 14 man noob mining corp now my faithful and devoted slaves, I knew this was going to be a fruitful vacation... In Teshkat and Keshirou alone you must have run up quite a sec loss: Sabaco in a Prophecy, Nox Jericho in a Badger and then a Griffin, Eloise Trakand in a Sacrilege, John Serebelum in a Caracal and then his pod , the list goes on and on for several days. I'm wondering if they're all pirates? It seems to me a days worth of boring effort is very little to pay for all the 'fun' you must have had. Read my post - I havent stated that I anti-pirated (though I have killed plenty of pirates during my wave of lowsec carnage, along with anything else). I just pointed out that the sec status system is very primitive, and the same penalties apply to anti-pirating as they do pirating. CCP say players should police lowsec, but unless the pirate is -5 or lower they penalise them with a sec status hit. Good anti-pirates nearly always drop below -5 unless they balance it out with lots of NPCing. ----------
Nyabinghi Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.28 19:35:00 - [102] I have some friends who fight pirates in low sec and so they themselves have low sec statuses which is an example of the utter illogic of CONCORD. So I don't think the time it takes to raise one's sec status is the problem (though the pirate should be given the option to restore a significant portion of their sec status by making full restitution to their victims) but rather that, as has been said, CONCORD punishes indiscriminately. ***
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.29 09:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Soporo Prats whine all the time about the pain of getting sec status up. Thing I cant figure out is, why tf do they pod EVERYTHING, (which causes the biggest hit), then whine about the hit? "I like the sound." "I cant resist." "It's fun." Are common answers. I get this picture of some pimply kid with a sugar buzz and an attention span of a goldfish, giggling and twitching and basically the kind of guy you want to bich slap. Right or wrong, its hard to shake. I can understand podding in 0.0 where you want the guy to get a free trip back far away. It actually makes sense in this case. Sadly, I get the same impression. Some of that is probably because the very act of piracy is alien to the majority of humans. Contrary to popular belief most humans are not blood thirsty hate machines kept in check by civilisation. We're mostly sheep-like, happy to live the quiet life and let some other bugger take risks. Anyway that aside there is a fundamental gap between pirates and the majority of players. This thread seems to be developing into evidence of that. The basic question from the pirates seems to be "Why do I have to be punished for annoying other players?" and I don't know how to get carebears to make sense of the question nor how to get pirates to understand why the question makes no sense -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Please don't read this signature.*
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 10:07:00 - [104] Alright, seriously, stop. Stop telling us about how we have to face consequences. WE KNOW. We're not saying we should be able to go on a killing spree and fly in empire with impunity. We're not saying we should be able to blast people's ships and pods and not suffer some consequence. I'm not even saying that I should only spend a few hours ratting to bring my sec up. It should take at least 20 hours of play to bring it up. The problem is, right now it seems to take more like 120. "Grind rats for two weeks, 7 hours a day, you'll get it back up." (That actually comes out to 98 hours but regardless that's too much). Once again, I'll repeat it for all the stupid carebears who refuse to realize this: WE DO NOT SEEK IMPUNITY!!! Second, I'd like to address the list above somewhere, about killing a cruiser. I'm not in a battleship so I'm not tanking gates, fair enough though as many people do this, and if I did camp gates I would kill cruisers too. You never know what's inside, after all. Secondly, people never mind in lowsec anymore. They either do it in highsec or in 0.0 under protection from their corp, as far as I can see. So that leaves us with the PvE fitted cruisers. While it's true that PvE setups != PvP setups, it is true that they still deal damage and probably have some semblance of a tank. Add that in with the fact that I fly T1 frigates to pirate and you've got a real and thrilling fight. Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Jex Jast And honestly, jail time? While that's realistic, I doubt anyone but a true carebear would find it reasonable to stop someone from playing the game while they still pay subscription just because they chose a certain, encouraged and essential style of play. It's not a punishment, it's a consequence. All actions have consequences. The consequence of pirating is exclusion from empire. Your subsription does not entitle you to skip consequences for your actions. If you don't like the consequences then.. buhu2u? That's just the way it is. It's perfectly fair, because the same rules apply to everyone else. I was referring to the jail time as punishment, which doesn't exist. Sec status is a consequence, jail time (on the assumption that you couldn't play during said time) would be a punishment and a monetary one at that. And lastly, for all of the people who said "Boo hoo to you, guess you shouldn't pirate, I mean the way the game works is the way the game works and you can't change that, deal with what happens when you do what you do." Did you "just deal" with it when there were: No gate guns? Nanoships? Ore thieves who weren't flagged? T2 BPO's in the hands of few? Titans using DDDs? No, you didn't. You *****ed about every single one, and the first three were resolved, the fourth is in the process, and the fifth has yet to be considered. Case and point: You have all complained about more than us. We've got something to complain about now, and you suddenly claim that the game can't be changed to suit the needs of certain players??? ___ ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit.
Amith Silvermoon The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.29 10:10:00 - [105] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 28/03/2007 19:36:02 Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/03/2007 11:34:20 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Lord Dynastron Quote: And how dare you (and the zillion others that do it) accuse us of getting some sort of pleasure out of "ruining someone's day"? How dare you? We don't do it to irritate others, we do it for the thrill of combat and for the (hopeful) rewards of loot, which generally don't come in that great quantity when you're killing T1 cruisers. But,, ummm,, you are and you do. I must be missing something obvious. That is like saying.. "I don't shoot the security guard at the bank to hurt him, I do it to get at the money inside the vault." You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that sec status hits applies to killing pirates too. Anti-pirates often have terrible sec status because the system is so incredibly primitive. Butter, when you went on your holiday.. I'm curious.. did you only anti-pirate? Just curious... Holiday Blog Day 1: I moved back to my spiritual EVE home, the dead-end lowsec constellation of Sukanan, in Tash-Murkon region. <snip> And so it was. Having settled in, I decided to go hunting. Seaching the belts for prey with a Covert Ops, I found the first target. Eyeing him up for size and position, I knew instinctively this would be a tough and worthy opponent - a 6 week old noob in a mining Catalyst awaited me. <snip> With a 14 man noob mining corp now my faithful and devoted slaves, I knew this was going to be a fruitful vacation... In Teshkat and Keshirou alone you must have run up quite a sec loss: Sabaco in a Prophecy, Nox Jericho in a Badger and then a Griffin, Eloise Trakand in a Sacrilege, John Serebelum in a Caracal and then his pod , the list goes on and on for several days. I'm wondering if they're all pirates? It seems to me a days worth of boring effort is very little to pay for all the 'fun' you must have had. Read my post - I havent stated that I anti-pirated (though I have killed plenty of pirates during my wave of lowsec carnage, along with anything else). I just pointed out that the sec status system is very primitive, and the same penalties apply to anti-pirating as they do pirating. CCP say players should police lowsec, but unless the pirate is -5 or lower they penalise them with a sec status hit. Good anti-pirates nearly always drop below -5 unless they balance it out with lots of NPCing. hehe, I totally forgot about that old holiday blog Awww i miss reading that was pretty funny. Anyway Breaks out slaver whip Back to make the Alliance start up fee, no more chit chat for you ---------- Everyday Combat - A Littlest Hobos Movie
Tanaka Nari	Posted - 2007.03.29 10:20:00 - [106] Originally by: Jex Jast My situation, for example, is this: I fly frigates. The largest ship I've flown is a battlecruiser. But I don't have access to 0.0 and I no longer have that bc. This leaves me stuck killing rats in 0.2 in my interceptor. Yes I can kill a dual-bc spawn in it, but it takes a half hour, and every time someone enters system I have to be right prepared to safespot immediately as I'm in dangerous space. At the rate I'm going, I will never return to high-sec. I'm only -7.7 and yet, I am in for a lot of not-fun playing if I want to be allowed in high sec again. Buy your way up to bigger ships through the NPC bounties you collect. Speeds up ratting, etc.
Ghargon The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.29 10:43:00 - [107] Its easy as hell to get your sec up quickly if you do it right. A little hint is that your sec ststus timer resets everytime you jump between systems for example. Get 1.8mill spawns chained in belts in two systems next to each other. Kill one bs and jump through to your other spawn and kill another one there. Rinse and repeat. This should give you at least a 2.0 sec increase every 2-4 minutes. And a decent amount of cash in your wallet. Should take you a few hours of casual ratting to go from -10 to positive. I never think of the future - It comes soon enough
Adoro Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.29 11:53:00 - [108] Went from -8.5 to -4.8 in just a few days. Just kill a BS with high bounty and wait for the sec status increase and then kill another BS... -------- Originally by: Lavinrac Krad You're either one of us or a Minmatar! What about Amarr? Bah, ha ha ha ha, Amarr, lol...
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.29 12:07:00 - [109] You know I think the point about podding here made a lot of sense - blowing ships up nets you *******s in sec loss compared to podding people. And unless you're ransoming the pod (and actually have some reason to think they'll pay) then you'd do well to, you know, not pod them.
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.29 12:20:00 - [110] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 29/03/2007 12:18:16 Originally by: Jex Jast Alright, seriously, stop. Stop telling us about how we have to face consequences. WE KNOW. If I keep saying so, it's because you obviously don't know. Originally by: Jex Jast We're not saying we should be able to go on a killing spree and fly in empire with impunity. We're not saying we should be able to blast people's ships and pods and not suffer some consequence. I'm not even saying that I should only spend a few hours ratting to bring my sec up. It should take at least 20 hours of play to bring it up. The problem is, right now it seems to take more like 120. "Grind rats for two weeks, 7 hours a day, you'll get it back up." (That actually comes out to 98 hours but regardless that's too much). So you're basically saying that the game should be balanced around the lowest common denominator? What if someone comes and says that 20 hours is too much as well, they've got a life and can only dedicate 2 hours to grinding to get their sec back? Should the game be balanced around them? Hell no. And you're NOT SUPPOSED TO GET YOUR SEC STATUS BACK UP! It's balanced specifically with that in mind. It's not, as I'VE ALREADY SAID, a punishment - a chore that must be done to get your sec status back up - it's a choice. You either have a low sec status and get excluded from high sec, or you have a high sec status and get excluded from killing in lowsec. YOU DON'T JUMP BETWEEN THE TWO! The OPTION is there to say 'ok, I'll no longer pirate and IN TIME I'll be allowed back into high sec.' But all it is is an option, not a requirement. Choose low sec status or high sec status and live with the consequences of either. Originally by: Jex Jast Second, I'd like to address the list above somewhere, about killing a cruiser. I'm not in a battleship so I'm not tanking gates, fair enough though as many people do this, and if I did camp gates I would kill cruisers too. You never know what's inside, after all. Ok you lose the argument. That's the risk. You RISK your sec status on getting something nice in the cruiser. If you don't like that risk, then FFS don't shoot the cruiser! Shoot something that has less RISK of getting crap loot, like an indy or BS. Originally by: Jex Jast Secondly, people never mind in lowsec anymore. They either do it in highsec or in 0.0 under protection from their corp, as far as I can see. So that leaves us with the PvE fitted cruisers. While it's true that PvE setups != PvP setups, it is true that they still deal damage and probably have some semblance of a tank. Add that in with the fact that I fly T1 frigates to pirate and you've got a real and thrilling fight. No, PvE fitted cruisers suck, end of story. If you're so new that you have to rat in lowsec in a cruiser, you're not going to put up a decent fight unless you're fighting somebody else equally new. And if that pirate is as equally new - sucks to be them. The game isn't balanced around the new players. If it was it'd be way too easy for the older players. Originally by: Jex Jast And lastly, for all of the people who said "Boo hoo to you, guess you shouldn't pirate, I mean the way the game works is the way the game works and you can't change that, deal with what happens when you do what you do." Did you "just deal" with it when there were: No gate guns? Nanoships? Ore thieves who weren't flagged? T2 BPO's in the hands of few? Titans using DDDs? No, you didn't. You ****ed about every single one, and the first three were resolved, the fourth is in the process, and the fifth has yet to be considered. Oh man... if this was aimed at me, you do know I'm a pirate right? And I've had a -10 sec status before? I've never complained about any of those things. OH NO WAIT! I'm disagreeing with you, therefore I must be a carebear, right? And therefore you don't have to actually counter MY arguments and points, just generic arguments from carebears. Strawman. I win. You lose. ___ Nice* one CCP

Algey The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.29 13:40:00 - [111] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jane Vladmir I've twice gone through -10.0 to -1.9. Took me about two weeks the second time. Terrible chore. I'll tell you a the easiest way to do it if you're willing to pay for the information. Contact me ingame. I assume you're talking about the 'kill NPC, change system, kill another NPC' approach. Thats what I'm doing. Still takes ages, still incredibly boring (though not quite as long). Less forum whorage, more pointless red cross killage.... It would be far more sensible if the killrights could be sold through the contract system. That way our carebear victims could hire people to pod us, giving us good PvP fun, them a feeling of vindication, and ship builders even more work
heheheh Singularity.	Posted - 2007.03.29 13:44:00 - [112] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Quantium Arklight where are you ratting? i spent a few hours in 0.0 space and went from a -0.2 to a 0.3 right, well i am -5 so think about it... to get to 0.3 would take me about 24 hours non-stop npcing ITS WORSE THAN DEATH ITSELF tell that to the noobs, haulers and miners you popped and podded for no reason :P Tbh i think its actually too easy to get your sec status back up, you do the crime you do you the time. just wish we could make criminals work to pay back their debts to society IRL as well.
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.03.29 14:39:00 - [113] The only thing that should get changed is the way -10 works,because what is the difference in being a low sec pirate -10 and being a high sec one?The first is restricted ,the second isn't. What should be made is more CONTENT that can be only accessed by -10 i dont give a frak if it is missions ,a parrot,or the ability to estract implants from dead corpses. -Carebears get missions in low sec level 6,7 and 8 wtf(i know more targets) -0.0 High sec carebears ,titans ,dreads,stations bubbles(i'am taking this path now because i feel the need to ride something big) -Pirates got what exactly ?Nothing .Nerfs .And more Nerfs.Iwas a -10 for a long time and damm i felt proud but after of being like that for 8 months i grew tired with the lack of tools we would have . I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.29 15:35:00 - [114] Do it from -10 then. That was boring. Outbreak Killboard
xeom Exit 13	Posted - 2007.03.29 15:50:00 - [115] Edited by: xeom on 29/03/2007 15:47:22 TBH just get a pirating alt,instead of making your main one. Im soon to have 3 accts im pretty sure. Piracy,Carebear,Empire-wars/0.0 No matter where you carebears go just know your going to die horribly. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Robin Sherwood	Posted - 2007.03.29 15:59:00 - [116] Originally by: Jex Jast I was referring to the jail time as punishment, which doesn't exist. Sec status is a consequence, jail time (on the assumption that you couldn't play during said time) would be a punishment and a monetary one at that. Well, why wouldn't you play ... you could be mining Veldspar under the supervision of Concord.
Hesed Hamartia.	Posted - 2007.03.29 16:09:00 - [117] Concord sucks. I want a lawyer. Give me due process or taste antimatter. It's lonely in lowsec. The only thing left to ransom are the POS.
Hesed Hamartia.	Posted - 2007.03.29 16:18:00 - [118] Originally by: Tanaka Nari Buy your way up to bigger ships through the NPC bounties you collect. Speeds up ratting, etc. What part of frigate specialized didn't quite register with you?
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.29 17:24:00 - [119] Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 29/03/2007 17:23:09 "CCP say players should police lowsec, but unless the pirate is -5 or lower they penalise them with a sec status hit. Good anti-pirates nearly always drop below -5 unless they balance it out with lots of NPCing." right and the reason for this issue is that even as it stands it is FAR to easy to fix your sec ratings. Thus pirates are able to linger in that better than -5 area. If sec ratings were truly HARd to fix pirates would end up with the appropriate sec rating they should have and anti pirates good do there job. I mean I agree there is a problem in the system but not the problem these guys are whining about which is the time it takes to fix your sec rating. The problem is how easily a pirate can fix their rating and the problem of priate hunters taking sec hits for killing pirates. But lets be real here you are only fooling yourself which is directed at the people here trying to suggest they are priate hunters and that is what is killing their sec ratings...very few people actually career piraite hunting for obvious reasons. Most are pretending they are pirate hunters but really are just carebear pirates wanting easy street. Maybe there should be some kind of long term no sec hit if somone kills you tag on people who have a sec rating of less than -2 for more than a week or something. A way to differenetiate between a piratye and someone who made a mistake or killed 1 or 2 people. As it stands pirating is far to soft, people should have to make some commitment if they are going to live the life of a pirate it should be just that, not some weekend job style pirating.
Fork Boy	Posted - 2007.03.29 18:04:00 - [120] Originally by: Butter Dog What part of 'ITS BORING' dont you understand. this is a computer game, not real life... It's not "just a game" when your actions have real consequences. To the guy sitting at a computer in another town or country, his ship loss will mean he will have to grind in game for a good while of hours to get those items back. Therefore you should do the same to pay pennance for your crimes. If you want "just a game" with no lasting effects then go and play something else, as Eve long term consequences for your actions. ================================= A fork is a cold, shiny tool To pierce, tear and ingest. Whoever has the fork in hand Controls the meal of their choice.

Leneerra Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.03.29 18:28:00 - [121] And you think rebuilding what was destroyed is not booring? tbh I think it balances out pretty well. Personally I think that timer to reduce or negate sec loss from attacking a active or recently active pirate is a good idear. As long as it is not shown in any way other than in the transaction log on sec status AFTER you shot the guy. and the length of the timer should be related to the sec of the person killed. But I do agree that there should be more for pirates. Give people with positive sec added costs when docking on a pirate npc station. Add some RP and stuff that is for pirates (not lowsec carebears going for pirate implants and such) imo Pirac is a lifestyle choise andthe sec standing is something that comes with it. So imo pirates with a high sec standing should be very very grind intensive.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:32:00 - [122] Edited by: Butter Dog on 29/03/2007 19:31:35 Originally by: Fork Boy Originally by: Butter Dog What part of 'ITS BORING' dont you understand. this is a computer game, not real life... It's not "just a game" when your actions have real consequences. To the guy sitting at a computer in another town or country, his ship loss will mean he will have to grind in game for a good while of hours to get those items back. Therefore you should do the same to pay pennance for your crimes. If you want "just a game" with no lasting effects then go and play something else, as Eve long term consequences for your actions. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt EVE supposed to be player driven? Are there not pirates and anti-pirates? Is it not possible to completely avoid pirates with a little common sense and situational awareness? If I kill someone, they get killrights - and they can use those killrights in conjuction with a search agent any time they like. If I pirate, the anti-pirates will hunt me and I'll be marked -10 by various organisations who disapprove. On the other hand, me shooting some imaginary red crosses for 100 hours doesnt do or change anything, apart from delivering me some boredom and ISK. There needs to be mechanisms in place which encourage proper interaction between pirates and 'player police' - at the moment, the sec status system is just too simplistic and arbitrary to be relevant to a player-driven game. You think I've been naughty? Then set me to -10 and hunt me down. Me shooting some imaginary red crosses and making some ISK in the process is hardly going to avenge your death, is it. ----------
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:34:00 - [123] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Fork Boy Originally by: Butter Dog What part of 'ITS BORING' dont you understand. this is a computer game, not real life... It's not "just a game" when your actions have real consequences. To the guy sitting at a computer in another town or country, his ship loss will mean he will have to grind in game for a good while of hours to get those items back. Therefore you should do the same to pay pennance for your crimes. If you want "just a game" with no lasting effects then go and play something else, as Eve long term consequences for your actions. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt EVE supposed to be player driven? Are there not pirates and anti-pirates? Is it not possible to completely avoid pirates with a little common sense and situational awareness? If I kill someone, they get killrights - and they can use those killrights in conjuction with a search agent any time they like. If I pirate, the anti-pirates will hunt me and I'll be marked -10 by various organisations who disapprove. On the other hand, me shooting some imaginary red crosses for 100 hours doesnt do or change anything, apart from delivering me some boredom and ISK. There needs to be mechanisms in place which encourage proper interaction between pirates and 'player police' - at the moment, the sec status system is just too simplistic and arbitrary to be relevant to a player-driven game. You think I've been naughty? Then set me to -10 and hunt me down. exactly!
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:55:00 - [124] Originally by: Nero Scuro If I keep saying so, it's because you obviously don't know. Arrogant, are we? Originally by: Nero Scuro So you're basically saying that the game should be balanced around the lowest common denominator? What if someone comes and says that 20 hours is too much as well, they've got a life and can only dedicate 2 hours to grinding to get their sec back? Should the game be balanced around them? Hell no. No, I'm saying the game shouldn't be based on the people who have nothing better to do than grind and shoot crosses all day. One of CCP's objectives with Eve was to make it a game in which you DON'T have to grind to do well for yourself. Quote: And you're NOT SUPPOSED TO GET YOUR SEC STATUS BACK UP! Then why have sec gain at all? So that "in time" (read: after weeks of grinding) I can be a good citizen again? Well I guess if CCP wants to stick me in lowsec space because of my profession, and not give me a chance to try something else just because I pirated first, maybe there's a problem? Considering no other profession faces any "consequences" (read: punishment) for their actions that restrict their play. Fine, stick me in low sec because I'm a bad boy. Just give me a reasonable chance to get out without going WoW-grind-to-60-in-two-days. That's not how Eve was designed. Quote: No, PvE fitted cruisers suck, end of story. I'm not going to bother addressing this as it's simply a generalization. While it may be true in some cases, even many cases, you can't try to suggest the idea that I'm flying a gank machine in comparison to all PvE cruisers. Quote: You RISK your sec status on getting something nice in the cruiser. If you don't like that risk, then FFS don't shoot the cruiser! Shoot something that has less RISK of getting crap loot, like an indy or BS. Because industrial ships hang out in belts all the time, and I can gank a BS in my frig. You're assuming that all pirates have multi-bs gank squads that sit at gates. Don't assume. Originally by: Nero Scuro Oh man... if this was aimed at me, you do know I'm a pirate right? And I've had a -10 sec status before? I've never complained about any of those things. It wasn't directed at you...so everything you screamed at me from this point on was wasted typage. Originally by: Nero Scuro lots of yelling flaming and sputtering You need to calm down, brother man. You're getting worked up about a mechanics debate for a game. And you're not even the one who's suffering from the mechanic. Maybe you need to take a break. Open your window, if it's nice where you are. Or better yet, go for a walk, look at those weird flying things they call "birds" and that green stuff called "grass." I can tell you from experience that the "sky", the real one, is quite beautiful. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:18:00 - [125] Originally by: Jex Jast Arrogant, are we? Stupid are we? Originally by: Jex Jast No, I'm saying the game shouldn't be based on the people who have nothing better to do than grind and shoot crosses all day. One of CCP's objectives with Eve was to make it a game in which you DON'T have to grind to do well for yourself. Then you were wrong. ISK takes grinding, standing takes grinding, sec status takes grinding. Live with it. Originally by: Jex Jast Then why have sec gain at all? So that "in time" (read: after weeks of grinding) I can be a good citizen again? Exactly. Originally by: Jex Jast Well I guess if CCP wants to stick me in lowsec space because of my profession, and not give me a chance to try something else just because I pirated first, maybe there's a problem? Considering no other profession faces any "consequences" (read: punishment) for their actions that restrict their play. They do have consequences. If you want a high sec status, you can't attack things in low sec, for example. If you don't like, or think pirating's consequences are unfair, then do something else. Or play another game entirely. Just don't whine to have the game changed because YOU find it too hard. Originally by: Jex Jast Fine, stick me in low sec because I'm a bad boy. Just give me a reasonable chance to get out without going WoW-grind-to-60-in-two-days. That's not how Eve was designed. Obviously that WAS how it was designed since that's how it HAS been designed. I don't think you really get cause and effect, do you? Originally by: Jex Jast I'm not going to bother addressing this as it's simply a generalization. While it may be true in some cases, even many cases, you can't try to suggest the idea that I'm flying a gank machine in comparison to all PvE cruisers. No, PvE cruisers are only a challenge if you fly only T1 fitted T1 frigates. AGAIN, why should the game be balanced around the lowest common denominator - people flying the crappiest ships? Originally by: Jex Jast Because industrial ships hang out in belts all the time, and I can gank a BS in my frig. Then fly something different and FFS stop whining like a little girl. Originally by: Jex Jast You're assuming that all pirates have multi-bs gank squads that sit at gates. Don't assume. No, I'm assuming pirates have better ships than T1 frigates. OMG what an assumption! For the record, ANY decently fit assault frigate, interceptor or PvP fitted cruiser will eat a PvE fitted cruiser for breakfast, end of story. Instead of asking CCP to change the game, why don't you fly a different ship? Or are you special? Originally by: Jex Jast It wasn't directed at you...so everything you screamed at me from this point on was wasted typage. You need to calm down, brother man. You're getting worked up about a mechanics debate for a game. And you're not even the one who's suffering from the mechanic. I'm not screaming, I'm perfectly calm. In case you failed to notice, there's a keyboard and monitor in front of you. The way I type is no indication of how I'm feeling. IF I TYPE ENTIRELY IN CAPS IT DOESN'T MEAN I'M ACTUALLY SCREAMING AS I TYPE THIS!!! Originally by: Jex Jast Maybe you need to take a break. Open your window, if it's nice where you are. Or better yet, go for a walk, look at those weird flying things they call "birds" and that green stuff called "grass." I can tell you from experience that the "sky", the real one, is quite beautiful. Right back at you. We're both posting on an internet forum arguing about a computer game. Only one of us seems to take it so seriously he'll go as far as trying to get the game changed to suit his playstyle. ___ Nice one CCP
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:43:00 - [126] Stop flaming and argue like a civil person. Eve was intended to be a game in which you don't need to grind. If you do need to grind, it's not a design flaw as much as it is the effect of people who do grind. If no one grinds, then no one needs to grind to keep up. Once you have enough people grinding, then you have others who follow suit or else they're left behind. There's a reason you don't gain skills by earning points for time spent in game. Being disallowed to shoot things in low sec is quite different than being disallowed to move in a significant portion of space. Why does an industrialist want to go killing in low sec? He doesn't. But a pirate still needs mods, and to get them for reasonable prices he often has to go into high sec. Sure you're faced with consequences as an industrialist but they're consequences that don't matter as much, if at all, to you. Stop telling me what to fly. If you want to give me 30 million isk to buy and fit a battlecruiser, be my guest. Until then, I'm going to fly what I can afford with the amount I play and what I do. And FYI I do fly all-T1 fit T1 frigs, save for two rocket launcher IIs on the merlins I used to fly. Other than those launchers I have all T1, and only T1 capability as well. And I don't use T2 rockets, not even srue if I can, so all I get from the launchers is a fire rate bonus. Just enough to count, so it'd be unfair to say it doesn't help at all (or else I wouldn't risk them). And now to the part where I'm offended. I didn't start this topic, nor do I whine about it. I have presented logical arguments about balancing the mechanic in question. If that's whining to you, then perhaps you should go trolling the other whine threads, the ones written in all caps, for example, where they might deserve to be flamed a bit. Until you can be respectful of the people with whom you're arguing, said people aren't going to take you seriously. And for the record, you didn't type entirely in caps because you thought it looked pretty. You were clearly trying to stress a point, and putting an exclamation point at the end was not the best way to say "I'm perfectly calm." Just relax, man. I'll debate this with you but I'm not interested in a flame fest. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim
Hamshoe	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:58:00 - [127] Originally by: Butter Dog Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt EVE supposed to be player driven? As long as it is possible for a "person" to be multiple characters, re-incarnate, and to leave and re-enter the entire universe at will, a completely player driven "justice" system won't work effectively. It's just way too easy to exploit. Sorry you're bored, go outside. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:02:00 - [128] I think security status is fine as it is. If it were easy and quick to regain security status it would not be as much fun to lose it. I say this on my forth day of floating out in BFE 0.0 slaughtering NPCs. If you decide to be a pirate security status shouldn't matter that much. It is a pain to work through alts to get stuff to and from Empire, but it is worth it to be able to gank anyone anytime in low sec. I fly a starship across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again - Willie Nelson
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:15:00 - [129] Originally by: MrTripps I think security status is fine as it is. If it were easy and quick to regain security status it would not be as much fun to lose it. This demonstrates something that I haven't explicitly mentioned yet, but it's what I've been speaking about. Nothing against your post Tripps, it's a fine opinion. Anyway: People are thinking in extremes. They think that we pirates are asking for a nice easy day or two of ratting to get from -10 to 0. That's not what we want, well, at least that's not what I'm looking for. What I'm asking for is something in the middle. I agree that pirates certainly ought to pay for their crimes by doing community service (actually that mining veld under CONCORD supervision sounds kind of neat) but I don't think they ought to be spending as much as they are now. If you make a scale: .............................Current \|-----------------------------\|-----\| Very Easy.........................Very Difficult Whereas I feel the scale should be more like this: \|----------------------\|------------\| Very Easy.............New..........Very Hard That's all we ask. We aren't looking for an easy way out, we're looking for a less-than-life-sucking way out. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim
Hamshoe	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:23:00 - [130] Edited by: Hamshoe on 29/03/2007 21:22:28 Originally by: Jex Jast That's all we ask. We aren't looking for an easy way out, we're looking for a less-than-life-sucking way out. Would a comensurate reduction in the (game based) rewards for the sanctioned acts be acceptable? Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?

Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:32:00 - [131] Originally by: Hamshoe Edited by: Hamshoe on 29/03/2007 21:22:28 Originally by: Jex Jast That's all we ask. We aren't looking for an easy way out, we're looking for a less-than-life-sucking way out. Would a comensurate reduction in the (game based) rewards for the sanctioned acts be acceptable? I'm honored that you think I'm so smart as to know what you're trying to say... I am however smart enough to use a dictionary so what it seems you've said is "Would it be acceptable to have the in-game rewards for the sanctioned acts reduced by the same amount as the effect of sec gain were boosted?" Heh...it's a mouthful either way. Also, I'd like to point out that "sanctioned" has taken on a dual meaning that is a dichotomy...sanction meaning both "forbidden" and also "permitted" depending on context. For the sake of not overthinking it I'm assuming you're talking about the bounties that come with ratting, and you're thus suggesting: "Would it be acceptable if bounties were reduced for sec gain?" My answer to that is yes. The way I see it, if you've been a bad boy like me and you kill another bad boy, CONCORD isn't really thinking "Oh he's a good citizen" so it would make sense to reduce the payout. I'd assume that the lower you go, the bigger the decrease, as someone who happened to get into a scuffle isn't the same as a gate ganker who pops everything in sight. All in all I think it's a good idea... If that's even what you were saying in the first place. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:34:00 - [132] Originally by: Jex Jast Eve was intended to be a game in which you don't need to grind. If you do need to grind, it's not a design flaw as much as it is the effect of people who do grind. Where does it say this? You're assuming things based on the skill system (which isn't a grind, correct), but seem to be ignoring ISK making and raising sec status. Both are grinds. Both were implemented by CCP, not the players. Unless you can bring me proof - and not just your opinion - that EVE does not involve an (un)healthy amount of grinding, your point doesn't stand. Originally by: Jex Jast If no one grinds, then no one needs to grind to keep up. Once you have enough people grinding, then you have others who follow suit or else they're left behind. So what do you suppose CCP do? Remove any way of making yourself better than other players via investing more time and/or effort than them? Because that would make for a pretty sucky game (I hate grinding myself, but then I don't feel forced to do it. I make do with around 200mil in assets and liquid isk just fine. Oh, and I don't pod or pop cruisers in low sec either.). Originally by: Jex Jast Being disallowed to shoot things in low sec is quite different than being disallowed to move in a significant portion of space. And being allowed to kill in low sec is quite different from being allowed to perform industry in high sec. If you're doing something worse, expect the consequences to be more serious. Originally by: Jex Jast Why does an industrialist want to go killing in low sec? He doesn't. But a pirate still needs mods, and to get them for reasonable prices he often has to go into high sec. Uhh... if you could get mods for 'reasonable' prices in low sec what would be the disadvantage of being banned from high-sec exactly Either pay the higher prices or get someone to ship stuff from high sec for you (my corp, for example, do regular, escort protected freighter runs from high sec into low sec to keep our -10 members in ships. If your corp can't afford even a single freighter, use indys). Originally by: Jex Jast Stop telling me what to fly. If you want to give me 30 million isk to buy and fit a battlecruiser, be my guest. Until then, I'm going to fly what I can afford with the amount I play and what I do. OH GOD! I can't pirate in a shuttle! Instead of flying a different ship, I demand the game be changed so that I can pirate in shuttles! The large, large, overwhelmingly large majority of EVE players can afford ships better than T1 fitted frigates. Why should, for the third time now, the game be balanced around people in frigates when the majority of people don't fly them? If someone was complaining that they can't do level 4 missions in a frigate, and they demanded level 4 missions be changed in order to be doable using frigates, would you tell them to fly a different ship? Or would you agree with them? Originally by: Jex Jast Damn you word limit Excuse me if you're in the middle of your period or something, but this is the internet. Who gets offended by what random strangers say? Grow a thicker skin. Originally by: Jex Jast And for the record, you didn't type entirely in caps because you thought it looked pretty. You were clearly trying to stress a point, and putting an exclamation point at the end was not the best way to say "I'm perfectly calm." I was trying to stress a point, yes. That doesn't mean I'm not calm, whether the way I'm posting indicates that or not. The intent was to get my point across, not get my mood across. ___ Nice one CCP
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:53:00 - [133] Originally by: Nero Scuro Unless you can bring me proof - and not just your opinion - that EVE does not involve an (un)healthy amount of grinding, your point doesn't stand. I believe devs have said it a few times on these boards, that's where I'm getting the idea. If I'm wrong, so be it, my memory isn't perfect. Quote: So what do you suppose CCP do? Remove any way of making yourself better than other players via investing more time and/or effort than them? Nah, it's just natural that people try and get a one up on each other. And to be honest that's fine, I don't really feel like I need to grind to enjoy the game (hence I pirate in frigs) but some feel the need to keep up. While it effects the market, etc., it's not a gruesome effect. No way of stopping it, so let it roll I say. Quote: I make do with around 200mil in assets and liquid isk just fine. Oh, and I don't pod or pop cruisers in low sec either. TouchT. Quote: And being allowed to kill in low sec is quite different from being allowed to perform industry in high sec. If you're doing something worse, expect the consequences to be more serious. TouchT...again...good point. My foot is nearing my mouth. Quote: Uhh... if you could get mods for 'reasonable' prices in low sec what would be the disadvantage of being banned from high-sec exactly Safety. Can't get ganked as easily in high sec. Lowsec you have to watch out. Especially with corps like INFOD or MD-K camping out. Quote: Either pay the higher prices or get someone to ship stuff from high sec for you (my corp, for example, do regular, escort protected freighter runs from high sec into low sec to keep our -10 members in ships. If your corp can't afford even a single freighter, use indys). That's pretty much what I do. I also have a high-sec runner to bring mods at a risk, but that's a great thrill anyway. Quote: OH GOD! I can't pirate in a shuttle! Instead of flying a different ship, I demand the game be changed so that I can pirate in shuttles! The large, large, overwhelmingly large majority of EVE players can afford ships better than T1 fitted frigates. Why should, for the third time now, the game be balanced around people in frigates when the majority of people don't fly them? I guess I wasn't very clear. I don't think the game should be balanced around T1 frigs, as it is it's already pretty well balanced for them anyway. IMO they're better for piracy than cruisers. The rat issue I guess is where I had difficulty with frigs, but even then it's not that bad so I don't know what the problem really was. Quote: Excuse me if you're in the middle of your period or something, but this is the internet. Who gets offended by what random strangers say? Grow a thicker skin. TBH I don't care who says it or via what medium, if someone says a bigot word I'm offended. Same idea here, I am bothered by people judging who I am based on assumptions. You're assuming that I'm a whiny prat who thinks things should be changed to suit his every need, and insulting me by flaming me for it. I'm not terribly hurt, mind you, but that doesn't mean I don't care what anyone who doesn't know me personally thinks of me. If I did I'd be a scamming flaming SOB with no remorse. It's just a matter of respect. It's nice. Quote: I was trying to stress a point, yes. That doesn't mean I'm not calm, whether the way I'm posting indicates that or not. The intent was to get my point across, not get my mood across. As you wish. Misinterpretation, then. Generally people type full sentences/clauses in caps when they're upset. Italics are nice as they emphasize words without being associated with "BOOHOO"ers. On a lighter note thank you for being much more respectful in quoted post. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim
Fork Boy	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:54:00 - [134] Originally by: Butter Dog Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt EVE supposed to be player driven? Are there not pirates and anti-pirates? Is it not possible to completely avoid pirates with a little common sense and situational awareness? If I kill someone, they get killrights - and they can use those killrights in conjuction with a search agent any time they like. If I pirate, the anti-pirates will hunt me and I'll be marked -10 by various organisations who disapprove. On the other hand, me shooting some imaginary red crosses for 100 hours doesnt do or change anything, apart from delivering me some boredom and ISK. There needs to be mechanisms in place which encourage proper interaction between pirates and 'player police' - at the moment, the sec status system is just too simplistic and arbitrary to be relevant to a player-driven game. You think I've been naughty? Then set me to -10 and hunt me down. Me shooting some imaginary red crosses and making some ISK in the process is hardly going to avenge your death, is it. I can sort of see where you're coming from. Half of me thinks that the players you've killed will be back to the grind to get their ships back, so you deserve the same medicine. However the other half of me agrees with what you're saying, and I wish the bounty system worked properly rather than the current state where you (not you personally, the communal "you"!) can jump clone, then get a mate to pod you and split the bounty. Don't know the answer, but yes, there is some middle ground somewhere. ================================= A fork is a cold, shiny tool To pierce, tear and ingest. Whoever has the fork in hand Controls the meal of their choice.
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.29 23:32:00 - [135] Originally by: Jex Jast I believe devs have said it a few times on these boards, that's where I'm getting the idea. If I'm wrong, so be it, my memory isn't perfect. I wouldn't believe what the devs say, especially if their actions don't support what they're saying. If they don't want EVE to be a grind game maybe they shouldn't have added a bunch of grind content (cough loyalty point rewards, standings-enabled content (such as research agents and jump clones) and high ISK content such as Titans that can't possibly be reached without unhealthy amounts of grinding). But before I go off on a dev-hate rant, I'll just say this - what they say means squat until it's in the game and working. Originally by: Jex Jast Nah, it's just natural that people try and get a one up on each other. And to be honest that's fine, I don't really feel like I need to grind to enjoy the game but some feel the need to keep up. While it effects the market, etc., it's not a gruesome effect. No way of stopping it, so let it roll I say. But do you really need to grind to put yourself in a decent ship? Battlecruisers can make awesome pirating ships and they take next to no ISK. Hell, if you've been grinding as much as you claim to put your sec status back up you should have the ISK to afford one by now. A drake plus T1 fittings takes about 15mil to lose. It can tank sentries long enough to pop the occasional indy and it'll chew through even PvE fitted BS with decent tank/skills. Originally by: Jex Jast Safety. Can't get ganked as easily in high sec. Lowsec you have to watch out. Especially with corps like INFOD or MD-K camping out. You're going to be in danger when you're 'working' anyway. Why would safety make a difference? When you're working you obviously don't want safety (if you're safe, your target is safe, but that goes without saying) and when you're shopping you fit a travel setup, and I can guarantee (especially if you fly nothing but frigates) that you're safe in lowsec with a decent travel setup. I've been on the receiving end of travel setups in low sec on gates. A combination of small ship + WCS/inertias is nearly impossible to counter when you're trying to tank sentries AND tackle in a battleship. Originally by: Jex Jast I guess I wasn't very clear. I don't think the game should be balanced around T1 frigs, as it is it's already pretty well balanced for them anyway. IMO they're better for piracy than cruisers. Ok, your point was that raising sec status is hard when you're flying a frigate and you're getting peanuts for reward. So what are the solutions? 1. Things as they are now. The same sec status loss regardless of the ship type you're attacking. It stops (supposedly) older players from ganking younger players who aren't worth the effort of losing sec status over, BUT it does mean that players who are new or poor - and therefore don't have a choice but to attack new players - are getting the same penalty as older players. Those older players can, obviously, raise their sec status faster because they can kill bigger rats quicker. Sucks for new/poor players, but... 2. Sec status loss lower for weaker ship types. So if you kill a BS you lose more sec status than when killing a cruiser, for example. Good for new/poor pirates. Good for older pirates. Really, really bad for new players. Killing newbies + no/lower penalty for doing so = bad game. Or look at it this way - how many times has your frig flown past a huge gate camp in low-sec and was left alone because those pirates didn't think your loot would be worth the sec hit they could better 'spend' on a battleship kill? Ok, probably not often since most older pirates are -10 anyway, but you get my point. ___ Nice one CCP
Ban Shui	Posted - 2007.03.30 03:19:00 - [136] OMG I can't believe the amount of whining coming out of pirates on this thread. What a bunch of crybabies. geez guys, are you really that self absorbed that you think that a -10 sec rating is unballanced? Are your heads so far up your ***** that you really think that you should be able to gank people and then recover impunity with ease? tbh, pirates should all have -10 ratings. If you want to gank people, then grow up and cop the penalty on the chin.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.30 03:54:00 - [137] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 30/03/2007 03:51:08 Originally by: Ban Shui OMG I can't believe the amount of whining coming out of pirates on this thread. What a bunch of crybabies. geez guys, are you really that self absorbed that you think that a -10 sec rating is unballanced? Are your heads so far up your ***** that you really think that you should be able to gank people and then recover impunity with ease? tbh, pirates should all have -10 ratings. If you want to gank people, then grow up and cop the penalty on the chin. hey, not all pirates are like that, (theres alot of them though..) there are REAL pirates out there, but you just dont hear about them cause they dont whine... so the "what a bunch of crybabies" thing isnt nice... sure those guys makes the rest of us look bad.. but yeah... they aint real pirates! as to the guy who keep insisiting is unbalanced... tell you what, you get NO sec hit for killing a ship and pod, but the guy respawns in a station with everything he had? mkay?.... edit: and yeah, -5 = new content.. everybody will shoot at you =P and you get to be a big bad evil person in game... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Howling Jinn Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.	Posted - 2007.03.30 04:13:00 - [138] OH MY GOD NO!!! :)
Mr Mozzie Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.30 04:26:00 - [139] Edited by: Mr Mozzie on 30/03/2007 04:23:23 what?
Hesed Amarr Hamartia.	Posted - 2007.03.30 06:08:00 - [140] Faction Based Scenario: Joe_Merc is ABing along merrily popping some +s one day in Placid and taking their stuff. The local station owners like this and give him discounts and don't mind when he looks around all crazy eyed and buys all the spraypaint. +'s begin to dislike him and call in extra support and always insta aggro him. The local gate sentry operators smile down benevolently on him, except for the one janitor who is really a low level Kallakkio.. Kaalakiio.. a Lai-Dai spy who gets paid for submitting info back to HQ. In his reports are all the anti-Serpentis actions taken by Joe_Merc. Serpentis have their own spies, but Caldari agents quickly note the gradual threat that is Mr. Joe_Merc. While they have no evidence that he has been involved in covert ops against Caldari corporations, he sure has cost them a lot of money that doesn't technically exist, and ruined the boss's surprise party. For no other reason than practicality they decide to make it obvious he ain't welcome near their stations or using their taxpayer funded gates. They might even pod him if he gets combat flagged. Meanwhile Jill_Pirate comes tripping along with baskets full of jolly old antimatter. Jill_Pirate also has a hungry puppy. Jill_Pirate also loves little white squares in Placid. The station owners do not allow puppies on board, and thus, Jill_Pirate's ship is not welcome anywhere near stations or gates in Placid. They always make them feel distinctly unwelcome all the time. The + s for the most part are indifferent to Jill_Pirate and her puppy. Still, they are leery of attempting to share loot and kibbles with Jill_Pirate. Jill_Pirate is even less welcome in Gallente space regardless of whether she follows the ****er scooper laws. They might even pod her if she goes there, and so will Guristas pirates. They just might get her, and her little dog too. Now there's always a chance that a puppy can get too big for Placid. Or maybe they just want to run with a different pack. The answer to that is simply to gnaw on some of the right folks. For puppies, it is not hard to roam elsewhere, which may prove some relief to Joe_Merc, who is tired of watching where he steps. He too can head out for greener pastures by different methods. On the one hand, it might be hard to dock a former enemy's station, on the other, all he really needs to do is kill a handful of the right folks to give the impression that he is willing to be useful, and he gets paid in the meantime, which is just fine by him. - Good. + - Bad.

Ascelot Junior Caldari Redneck Revenge	Posted - 2007.03.30 06:35:00 - [141] Originally by: Hesed Faction Based Scenario: Joe_Merc is ABing along merrily popping some +s one day in Placid and taking their stuff. The local station owners like this and give him discounts and don't mind when he looks around all crazy eyed and buys all the spraypaint. +'s begin to dislike him and call in extra support and always insta aggro him. The local gate sentry operators smile down benevolently on him, except for the one janitor who is really a low level Kallakkio.. Kaalakiio.. a Lai-Dai spy who gets paid for submitting info back to HQ. In his reports are all the anti-Serpentis actions taken by Joe_Merc. Serpentis have their own spies, but Caldari agents quickly note the gradual threat that is Mr. Joe_Merc. While they have no evidence that he has been involved in covert ops against Caldari corporations, he sure has cost them a lot of money that doesn't technically exist, and ruined the boss's surprise party. For no other reason than practicality they decide to make it obvious he ain't welcome near their stations or using their taxpayer funded gates. They might even pod him if he gets combat flagged. Meanwhile Jill_Pirate comes tripping along with baskets full of jolly old antimatter. Jill_Pirate also has a hungry puppy. Jill_Pirate also loves little white squares in Placid. The station owners do not allow puppies on board, and thus, Jill_Pirate's ship is not welcome anywhere near stations or gates in Placid. They always make them feel distinctly unwelcome all the time. The + s for the most part are indifferent to Jill_Pirate and her puppy. Still, they are leery of attempting to share loot and kibbles with Jill_Pirate. Jill_Pirate is even less welcome in Gallente space regardless of whether she follows the ****er scooper laws. They might even pod her if she goes there, and so will Guristas pirates. They just might get her, and her little dog too. Now there's always a chance that a puppy can get too big for Placid. Or maybe they just want to run with a different pack. The answer to that is simply to gnaw on some of the right folks. For puppies, it is not hard to roam elsewhere, which may prove some relief to Joe_Merc, who is tired of watching where he steps. He too can head out for greener pastures by different methods. On the one hand, it might be hard to dock a former enemy's station, on the other, all he really needs to do is kill a handful of the right folks to give the impression that he is willing to be useful, and he gets paid in the meantime, which is just fine by him. aye?! wtf, someone plse summarise, kthxbye.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.30 06:39:00 - [142] Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 30/03/2007 06:37:25 "What part of 'ITS BORING' dont you understand. this is a computer game, not real life... " I understand completely, YOU ar ethe one who lacks understanding? what part of playing a pirate MEANS PLAYING A PIRATE don't you understand? If you don't want to doing boring sec rating farming, then don;t kill players in low sec simple concept what are you so dense as to not understand it? Even more funny is you are such a dullard you have'nt figured out all you goto do is go into 0.0 and system jump alternating killing BS's and it really doesnt take much time at all. Oh ya we are forgeting your a little whining carebear pirate afraid to take some risk and hit 0.0 trying to pass through a camped pipelines... so let me make it simple, stop whining, stop pirating, or if you can;t hack it in EVE quit, just be sure to give me your sh*t before you pull the plug kthxbye. I mean gee wtf kinda candy a$$ pirate are you that you so worried about sec rating? grow a pair and learn how to play a pirate noob.
Miz Cenuij Simply Smacktackular	Posted - 2007.03.30 06:59:00 - [143] Last time i did this, it only gives you the sec increase every 15 minutes for the NPC ship you killed in that time that had the highest gain. It was mind numbing. I havnt worried about sec for a long time now, either use cap ships to move around or an agile inty and the warp to 0 feature. Empire 4tl. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.30 07:28:00 - [144] Originally by: Butter Dog Read my post - I havent stated that I anti-pirated (though I have killed plenty of pirates during my wave of lowsec carnage, along with anything else). My bad. Originally by: Butter Dog I just pointed out that the sec status system is very primitive, and the same penalties apply to anti-pirating as they do pirating. CCP say players should police lowsec, but unless the pirate is -5 or lower they penalise them with a sec status hit. Good anti-pirates nearly always drop below -5 unless they balance it out with lots of NPCing. Exactly, i.e. CCP don't think of anyone who's sec status is between -4.9 and 0 as a pirate. What level would you change it to? Originally by: Butter Dog hehe, I totally forgot about that old holiday blog Couldn't resist it as it seemed you where whining about neg. sec.
Verizana The Kru	Posted - 2007.03.30 07:51:00 - [145] We in The Kru have used this method of gaining 0.6 each hour. It's possible oh yes. I aint gonna tell you though :) no, not GM stuff.
Mr Mozzie Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.30 09:11:00 - [146] Edited by: Mr Mozzie on 30/03/2007 09:08:32 Originally by: Leneerra And you think rebuilding what was destroyed is not boring? QFT The sec hit of a pirate should be at least as (if not more) hard to earn back as what it cost the victim.
Vosill Collector of Souls	Posted - 2007.03.30 09:48:00 - [147] for every moment of pleasure, there is a moment of pain ... I'm currently -8.0, I usually play about an hour or two a night about 4 nights a week at best these days, getting back to 0 sec status is very painful, but killing all those players for fun and profit was... awesome
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.30 09:50:00 - [148] Originally by: Mr Mozzie The sec hit of a pirate should be at least as (if not more) hard to earn back as what it cost the victim. Well right now it's more so I guess you've got your wish, yes? ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim I got cookies! - Deckard
sikkness	Posted - 2007.03.30 10:15:00 - [149] Edited by: sikkness on 30/03/2007 10:11:17 bah nvm
sikkness	Posted - 2007.03.30 10:15:00 - [150] Edited by: sikkness on 30/03/2007 10:11:17 bah nvm

Vosill Collector of Souls	Posted - 2007.03.30 10:16:00 - [151] Originally by: Mr Mozzie I guess so... Originally by: Vosill for every moment of pleasure, there is a moment of pain ... I'm currently -8.0, I usually play about an hour or two a night about 4 nights a week at best these days, getting back to 0 sec status is very painful, but killing all those players for fun and profit was... awesome If pirating is so awesome, why do you spend so much time grinding for sec status. Yopu could be pirating in that time!!! Read my bio ingame
Vosill Collector of Souls	Posted - 2007.03.30 10:16:00 - [152] Originally by: Mr Mozzie I guess so... Originally by: Vosill for every moment of pleasure, there is a moment of pain ... I'm currently -8.0, I usually play about an hour or two a night about 4 nights a week at best these days, getting back to 0 sec status is very painful, but killing all those players for fun and profit was... awesome If pirating is so awesome, why do you spend so much time grinding for sec status. Yopu could be pirating in that time!!! Read my bio ingame
MrLobster Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.30 10:48:00 - [153] Edited by: MrLobster on 30/03/2007 10:44:43 Not sure if this is in the game or already been suggested, but... Could the sec status of the person your killing be involved in the formula for the decrease of your own sec status. You could even get to the point that you increase your standing by killing a lower sec status player. But the closer your sec status is to the "victim" sec status, the more likely you are to get sec status removed. Would be good news to pirate hunters :) Edit:Spelling ______ Catch the Pigeon!
Gaia Thorn Villains	Posted - 2007.03.30 11:32:00 - [154] I am a low sec gank/griefer so i think i could add something to this discussion. Atleast from my point of view what most "pirates/greifers" are asking for in this thread is the option to have something other then popping NPC to gain back their SEC. Just shooting rats wether it be on missions or ratting can and does become quite boring after rinse and repeat 2000 times. So if there could be more ways of taking down the sec hit it would be great.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.30 19:40:00 - [155] Originally by: Gaia Thorn I am a low sec gank/griefer so i think i could add something to this discussion. Atleast from my point of view what most "pirates/greifers" are asking for in this thread is the option to have something other then popping NPC to gain back their SEC. Just shooting rats wether it be on missions or ratting can and does become quite boring after rinse and repeat 2000 times. So if there could be more ways of taking down the sec hit it would be great. Nah, ratting is fine, the problem is that you really do need to kill a few thousand to bring yourself up, and it only takes maybe 10 pod kills (maybe 50 ship kills?) (really rough estimates, I'm not doing the math) to bring you down to -8 or lower. The up and down scales shouldn't be even, but they shouldn't be so overly tilted either. That's what we're asking. and Mozzie I'm grinding my sec back up because I'm no longer going to pirate. And I'm going to need access to high sec aside from buzzing through dodging faction police. Otherwise I wouldn't be bothered to rat at all, except maybe for some ISK. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim I got cookies! - Deckard
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:01:00 - [156] Getting into a 20 second fight is a 3 month misdemeanor in California. Pirating is against the law in Eve and Eve has adopted a variation of real world Law Ideology. Seems to work for me. Aind See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:07:00 - [157] Originally by: Aindrias Getting into a 20 second fight is a 3 month misdemeanor in California. Pirating is against the law in Eve and Eve has adopted a variation of real world Law Ideology. Seems to work for me. Aind You're forgetting that Eve is a game. By all means, there should be a penalty for being a bad person. But as has been said already, many times (which you've clearly ignored and I won't be surprised if you ignore this too), the penalty for taking part in an encouraged and necessary role should not involve losing hope of ever changing paths because you'd need to spend a month to do it unless you're a grinder. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim I got cookies! - Deckard
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:18:00 - [158] Edited by: Aindrias on 30/03/2007 21:15:01 Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Aindrias Getting into a 20 second fight is a 3 month misdemeanor in California. Pirating is against the law in Eve and Eve has adopted a variation of real world Law Ideology. Seems to work for me. Aind You're forgetting that Eve is a game. By all means, there should be a penalty for being a bad person. But as has been said already, many times (which you've clearly ignored and I won't be surprised if you ignore this too), the penalty for taking part in an encouraged and necessary role should not involve losing hope of ever changing paths because you'd need to spend a month to do it unless you're a grinder. If a week or a month is "OMGWHIIIINE" too long... then play a game more intuned with ADHD. Believe it or not... Ratting is a perfectly acceptable thing for a LOT of players to do with their time in general inbetween Corp/Alliance PvP Ops to earn money, sooooo because you can't handle paying attention to do it makes it "OMFGWHIIIIIIIIIIINE" Grind. ANd no I didn't ignore what was written, I just believe it's not valid, but how you feel about ratting is valid and I'm not here to change your opinion on it. Pirating is generally encourage in low and no sec (I agree it's a necassary part of the game)... Pirating is not "I kill you now!" activity.. it's "GImme yer money or we kill you" activity. I just have little sympathy for whose that can't do it right and then wonder why they're paying a steep penalty in game. See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:40:00 - [159] Originally by: Aindrias If a week or a month is "OMGWHIIIINE" too long... then play a game more intuned with ADHD. Plain and simple flame. Not to mention that I have not OMGWHINED once. Just because I disagree with a mechanic openly doesn't mean I'm whining. If you'd like me to start, just say the word and you'll see what my whining is like. Quote: Believe it or not... Ratting is a perfectly acceptable thing for a LOT of players to do with their time in general inbetween Corp/Alliance PvP Ops to earn money, sooooo because you can't handle paying attention to do it makes it "OMFGWHIIIIIIIIIIINE" Grind. You just can't stop attacking people who don't want to shoot red +s for a month...I've been ratting, it's not half bad, but I'm sure after a month I'm going to feel differently. Hey, some people get a lot of fun out of ratting their whole Eve careers. Power to them. But those who are forced to if they want to return to the "Good Citizens" aren't necessarily people who can kill NPCs for a month and call it even mildly pleasurable. Quote: ANd no I didn't ignore what was written, I just believe it's not valid, but how you feel about ratting is valid and I'm not here to change your opinion on it. The opinion is valid, it just might be in disagreement with what you feel. But don't ignore it, address it. I know you're not here to try to change opinions but you should try to justify why you disagree with them. Quote: Pirating is generally encourage in low and no sec (I agree it's a necassary part of the game)... Pirating is not "I kill you now!" activity.. it's "GImme yer money or we kill you" activity. I just have little sympathy for whose that can't do it right and then wonder why they're paying a steep penalty in game. I do pirate properly. Hell, most people say "screw it we'll only ransom BSes", meanwhile I ransom frigates. Yes, frigates. It's a waste of time and a big risk but I do it anyway for the sake of my victims having a chance to save themselves. It's not my fault if they all smack and tell me I'm some socially handicapped freak that does sexual things with my own mother. I even ransom pods that most likely have no implants, for low prices of course. The only time I don't ransom is when I'm flying with my corp as they don't like to take the risk. I respect that, or else I wouldn't fly with them, but I prefer to hunt alone because of it. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim I got cookies! - Deckard
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:53:00 - [160] Originally by: Aindrias Getting into a 20 second fight is a 3 month misdemeanor in California. Pirating is against the law in Eve and Eve has adopted a variation of real world Law Ideology. Seems to work for me. Aind Your thinking is far too simplistic. 1) You get a sec hit for killing a nasty pirate who is less than -5, or a mining barge. The primitive system punishes anti-pirates just as much as pirates. 2) Some people enjoy NPCing. But me spending 100 hours making lots of ISK and getting a high security status does not avenge your death. I just happen to find it boring, its not my chosen playstyle. What the sensible people in this thread are asking for is alternative forms of 'punishment'. 3) EVE is player driven. Player police can and should deal with pirate incursions. The current system even discourages anti-piracy by hitting anti-pies with a sec status loss. Kill rights and search agents give opportunities for revenge. In short, nothing about the current sec status system makes any real sense. Its primitive, illogical, and serves everyone poorly. Including antipirates and the victims of piracy. ----------

Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.03.30 22:00:00 - [161] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Aindrias Getting into a 20 second fight is a 3 month misdemeanor in California. Pirating is against the law in Eve and Eve has adopted a variation of real world Law Ideology. Seems to work for me. Aind Your thinking is far too simplistic. 1) You get a sec hit for killing a nasty pirate who is less than -5, or a mining barge. The primitive system punishes anti-pirates just as much as pirates. 2) Some people enjoy NPCing. But me spending 100 hours making lots of ISK and getting a high security status does not avenge your death. I just happen to find it boring, its not my chosen playstyle. What the sensible people in this thread are asking for is alternative forms of 'punishment'. 3) EVE is player driven. Player police can and should deal with pirate incursions. The current system even discourages anti-piracy by hitting anti-pies with a sec status loss. Kill rights and search agents give opportunities for revenge. In short, nothing about the current sec status system makes any real sense. Its primitive, illogical, and serves everyone poorly. Including antipirates and the victims of piracy. Ok Ok, KNee Jerk reaction from all the Flames from people that want other rules change that effect PvPers... "Adapt Carebear" comes to mind. Sorry for the ADHD comments, but seriously, this game isn't for the casual gamer that wants to get what they want right out of the gates... a lot of work is needed in all things... I work closely with the Criminal Justice system in California... the victim always gets screwed... and they haven't found a good way to deal with that. Eve is player driven.. true... but if you left it to players, unfortunetly, very little policing would get done. Agreed about the "killing a -5 pirate thing" to a point. Vigilantism has never been "OK" in civilized societies. I think it maybe better for certain players to be able to "Register" as a bounty hunter for a fee so these things don't affect them. They can now hunt -5. Take contract legally.. or something, get paid to do it on top of the bounties.. I dunno Aind See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Evane McRory	Posted - 2007.03.30 22:21:00 - [162] Edited by: Evane McRory on 30/03/2007 22:22:31 Originally by: Butter Dog What part of 'ITS BORING' dont you understand. this is a computer game, not real life... And what part of "its boring recovering what was lost by the pirate attack" don't you understand?? Why should your boredom in recovering your sec staus be any less, and in fact since you started it in the first place shouldn't you have a bit of extra boredom as punishment? However I do think a flat hit is a bit simplistic - I mean this is a computer game and the computer should be able to work out what percentage of the persons wealth you just destroyed and fix a sec hit appropriatley. So for instance killing me in a HAC would have less of an impact on me than killing a noob in his first ever cruiser. So how about getting a sec hit proportional to the impact of the guy you just ganked? 10% of his wealth = a -1.0 sec hit. Would be better for you as you would tend to go for the older players in better ships who would often be carrying better loot. And it would also give a bit of extra protection for people in those first vunerable weeks.
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.03.30 22:32:00 - [163] I also think the problem is Your Caught Pirating EVERY time.. No Criminal is caught everytime he breaks a law. The answer? I dunno.. hehe Might I state the Op started this thread with a "whine".. See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Ma'lice Minmatar Sexa Inc	Posted - 2007.03.30 22:52:00 - [164] Edited by: Ma''lice on 30/03/2007 22:51:33 You know? No you probably don't. Well anyways, I'm sitting here trying to rat my sec up in 0.0.( What a f'n chore tbh.) So after about 12 hrs ratting the same system, and only going from -6.0 to -5.0. Not to mention the fact that there was a crap load, for days on end of low end BC and below rats ( Systems true sec is -0.178 blah blah blah) //I'm drinking again today so bare with me.// Well today after killing umpteen low end rats. the system starts spawning higher end rats. Now when I used to rat this same system there used to be a lot of 1M and 1.25M rats. Over the last few days there have only been <.8M rats. Well after all me rambling. Does Anyone have Knowledge of whats been occurring in these patches regarding ratting? But i guess my main concern is not whether or not they've nerfed the rats but rather did they compensate for the Sec increase when they nerfed 'em? Here's my EDIT, Because of coarse. My interest isn't in the bounty of the rats but in the sec increase of the rats. Rule of thumb is the higher the bounty the higher the sec increase. Originally by: Portios Smith 1 v 1 are like sex, be selective or catch a bug
Pat Metheny	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:07:00 - [165] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 27/03/2007 18:38:20 Why is raising sec status such a soul destroying chore? after 2 hours of mind numbing NPCing I am 0.1 higher, I would sooner self-harm than click the F keys again and watch another f****** red cross explode Bring back the bribable concord agent.... or something.... ANYTHING PS - yes i know I'm -5 because I was a bad boy, but this is a game, and i need it to be fun pls We all know that The Littlest Hobos are pirates. See if I care? No I dont
Thread Winner	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:39:00 - [166] Give us a decent bounty system and we won't need a sec status.
Nathaniel Hull Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.31 00:35:00 - [167] Belt rats over plex rats, plex rats over mission rats with a few exceptions. What i dont know is storyline agents. compaired to 00 with storyline bses aka the ones you probably aren't supposed to kill inside the mission perameters. I have gotten damn good sec off of them so on that alone im sketchy.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.31 03:14:00 - [168] Originally by: Aindrias Eve is player driven.. true... but if you left it to players, unfortunetly, very little policing would get done. I disagree. Eve seems to reflect a culture in which there are the weak and the strong, the kind and the unkind, etc. In such a society, if people are doing bad things, and other people are upset about it, they'll do something. What I see is society in Eve developing in the same way our own society has developed. If the players are left to run things, then they will have to solve their own problems and will do so out of need for survival. I'm sure I could explain what I'm thinking better than this, but I'm quite tired right now and probably shouldn't even be posting. ----- :::Need to be cleaned::: Sorry mods, hijack removed - blame the sig length limit. I thought you just didnt love us anymore - Tim I got cookies! - Deckard
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.03.31 12:58:00 - [169] Best of luck with that grind Vosill and I mean that becasue you irish, just like me! And your right People in Jita need to die, Privateers just aren't doing it quick enough! Smartbombs ftw! * * * A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn. - I learned that the hard way.
Jack Target Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.31 22:29:00 - [170] If you can't do the time, don't do the crime! It took me a long time to earn my implants!

Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.01 02:14:00 - [171] An idea in this wayyyy too damn long thread that I actually liked, after getting over the "bahahahaha you ebil prat" moment I had. Bounty Hunter Registration/ Skill/ Concord Communications module/ whatever: Allows you to whack neg sec status people without taking a sec hit. After a while, the line between Pirates/Criminal would become more clearer.
Awox Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.04.01 02:55:00 - [172] I wouldn't care that I am stuck being an outlaw if CCP didn't **** on low-sec every chance they get. Low-sec is pretty much empty these days. Way to go CCP. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it)
Mara Noan Gallente Illuminati Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.04.01 03:39:00 - [173] Very simple solution, go to 0.0, find a corp, war dec it and kill to your heart's content, no one will care. "If you can't stand behind the troops, feel free to stand in front of them" "Common sense, it's not that common." null
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.01 03:56:00 - [174] Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Aindrias Eve is player driven.. true... but if you left it to players, unfortunetly, very little policing would get done. I disagree. Eve seems to reflect a culture in which there are the weak and the strong, the kind and the unkind, etc. In such a society, if people are doing bad things, and other people are upset about it, they'll do something. What I see is society in Eve developing in the same way our own society has developed. If the players are left to run things, then they will have to solve their own problems and will do so out of need for survival. I'm sure I could explain what I'm thinking better than this, but I'm quite tired right now and probably shouldn't even be posting. Except that in real life the only way to "escape" what is going on is to die. Most of those that fight back only do so when they get tired enough of what is happening to do so. In EvE they just quit and go onto another game where they can have fun without getting tired of other players' antics, leaving the gankers a rats to prey on the next round of unsuspecting noobs to fall for the next advertising campaign <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.04.01 08:57:00 - [175] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby In EvE they just quit and go onto another game where they can have fun without getting tired of other players' antics, leaving the gankers a rats to prey on the next round of unsuspecting noobs to fall for the next advertising campaign And you think the same isnt true of pirates and anti-pirates who are forced to spend countless hours pointlessly shooting red crosses? The fact of the matter, is that the current sec status system is far too primitive, and not fit for purpose. ----------
Leikeze Mrotserif coracao ardente	Posted - 2007.04.01 09:09:00 - [176] I am the master of security status manipulation. If u want the secret drop an evemail so i can fast reply. Or just disregard this if it was mentioned somewhere in the thread already.


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