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Keno Skir
882
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Posted - 2016.11.08 09:47:46 -
[91] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Beast of Revelations wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:Your ideas would require so much after-the-fact fixes to everything else in the game I doubt it, but if so, who cares? If it needs fixing, it needs fixing, and if it is important to do, it is important to do. For me, the battleship issue is an intolerable situation. I know others who feel the same way. I've been able to train battleships for a long time, and have the skill books injected. I also have many support skills trained. But I have refused to train them. To me they are broken, and it simply isn't worth it. I'd like to see the issue fixed. So you've formed balance opinions about a class of ships yo have never even flown, and are arguing with people who have? That's...I don't even know what to call that. what a time to be alive
Headshot.
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2016.11.08 09:59:47 -
[92] - Quote
Found a couple of older threads where some folks seem to have noticed and agree with the problem:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408646
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=424059 |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3620
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Posted - 2016.11.08 10:13:37 -
[93] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:
and the answers are pretty much the same so you have just made your own thread redundant, good luck getting a proteus to do 1500dps with 90% webs like my vindicator
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2016.11.08 10:58:15 -
[94] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Beast of Revelations wrote: and the answers are pretty much the same so you have just made your own thread redundant....
By my appraisal the answers aren't the same, at least not in the first link. That one looks to be 90% on 'my' side, 10% 'other' side. The other thread is more mixed. |
Keno Skir
885
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Posted - 2016.11.08 14:41:58 -
[95] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Beast of Revelations wrote: and the answers are pretty much the same so you have just made your own thread redundant.... By my appraisal the answers aren't the same, at least not in the first link. That one looks to be 90% on 'my' side, 10% 'other' side. The other thread is more mixed.
You don't have a "side", since you have never flown a BS. Pipe down and let me listen to the adults
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Wanda Fayne
283
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Posted - 2016.11.08 15:07:08 -
[96] - Quote
Hmmm...
Let's try to illustrate this a different way.
Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship.
Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
Let's have a duel.
No boosts, links, alts, logi or tricks.
Just 'mano a mano'.
By your whole thread it really should be no contest at all.
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Keno Skir
887
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Posted - 2016.11.08 15:41:04 -
[97] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship.
Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
Had thought about this also
(He'd never show tho..)
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3629
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Posted - 2016.11.08 15:49:47 -
[98] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:Hmmm...
Let's try to illustrate this a different way.
Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship.
Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
Let's have a duel.
No boosts, links, alts, logi or tricks.
Just 'mano a mano'.
By your whole thread it really should be no contest at all.
inb4 he shows up in a svipul
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Memphis Baas
2204
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Posted - 2016.11.08 16:06:43 -
[99] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote: Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship. Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
This scenario hides one of the major reasons why battleships aren't more popular.
How about you fly the battleship and he flies whatever he wants, and both of you start in Jita and have to go to the deep end of Providence, with whoever gets there first being able to add to his fleet 1 friend/alt per every 10 minutes spent waiting for the other person. |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3631
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Posted - 2016.11.08 16:28:03 -
[100] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote: Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship. Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
This scenario hides one of the major reasons why battleships aren't more popular. How about you fly the battleship and he flies whatever he wants, and both of you start in Jita and have to go to the deep end of Providence, with whoever gets there first being able to add to his fleet 1 friend/alt per every 10 minutes spent waiting for the other person.
the op said PVP, not traveling
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2590
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Posted - 2016.11.08 16:36:06 -
[101] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:
2) I see no reason why any single frigate would ever beat any single battleship within the role of that battleship ('mana a mana' straightforward, non-fancy, slug-it-out fight to the death combat) - ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL OF COURSE (piloting skills, fitting, etc). Several things could be proposed to fix this, and I don't know which one is right.
Perhaps like with tanks in the real world, light weaponry simply has no effect (machine gun bullets merely bounce off of tanks). This could mean small weapons do no damage to a battleship. Or perhaps battleships should be equipped with entirely separate slots for 'flak' type weaponry which would hurt frigs. Or perhaps the silliness with battleships not being able to track and hit frigates could simply be done away with, and the battleship merely aims, unloads a single volley, and the single frigate disappears.
Perhaps you should spend less time opining on the forums and more time actually playing the game.
Battleships that die to lone frigates are almost invariably piloted by some imbecile with no earthly notion of how to fit or fly them, and usually as a result of being baited in high sec.
It's hilarious that you think this is a real mechanical issue.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
2112
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Posted - 2016.11.08 16:52:57 -
[102] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote: Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship. Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
This scenario hides one of the major reasons why battleships aren't more popular. How about you fly the battleship and he flies whatever he wants, and both of you start in Jita and have to go to the deep end of Providence, with whoever gets there first being able to add to his fleet 1 friend/alt per every 10 minutes spent waiting for the other person. the op said PVP, not traveling We can't all just sit on the gate/titan and wait for the "fight" to fall in our laps.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18389
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Posted - 2016.11.08 17:00:03 -
[103] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote: Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship. Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
This scenario hides one of the major reasons why battleships aren't more popular. How about you fly the battleship and he flies whatever he wants, and both of you start in Jita and have to go to the deep end of Providence, with whoever gets there first being able to add to his fleet 1 friend/alt per every 10 minutes spent waiting for the other person. the op said PVP, not traveling We can't all just sit on the gate/titan and wait for the "fight" to fall in our laps.
People are roaming in gate traveling carriers.
CCP gave us several things to get around warp speed so use them if you want to go fast. They have also given us several things for dealing with small ships such as rapid launchers, webs, the grapple and lower firepower but higher tracking guns. Droneboats are great vs smaller ships, the likes of the geddon make fantastic platforms and the Hyperion is far from a pushover. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18390
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Posted - 2016.11.08 17:13:42 -
[104] - Quote
Steffles wrote: As for the T3C = too stronk, its rubbish. They're fine, as stated earlier with evidence which you failed to respond to, its the oversized modules that shouldn't be fit to smaller ships that are being fit to smaller ships, causing some of them to be OP.
I responded with an example that was better in every way than a battleship. A ship that is getting 7 bonuses that average out at 10% per level per bonus cannot ever be balanced. |
Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2016.11.08 17:59:25 -
[105] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Steffles wrote: As for the T3C = too stronk, its rubbish. They're fine, as stated earlier with evidence which you failed to respond to, its the oversized modules that shouldn't be fit to smaller ships that are being fit to smaller ships, causing some of them to be OP.
I responded with an example that was better in every way than a battleship. A ship that is getting 7 bonuses that average out at 10% per level per bonus cannot ever be balanced. Except it is balanced without oversized mods. My Onyx example clearly showed that with oversized mods, an Onyx can be as good as or better than a Tengu if fit similiarly.
If you take away oversized mods from a T3 theyr'e not much better than your average ship even though you lose a week of training when they blow up.
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Memphis Baas
2205
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Posted - 2016.11.08 18:05:48 -
[106] - Quote
Steffles wrote:even though you lose a week of training when they blow up.
I'd like to see that go away. I'd be ok with CCP nerfing T3 strongly, so T3's are just a ship like any other, and then getting rid of that skill loss mechanic.
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2560
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Posted - 2016.11.08 18:38:05 -
[107] - Quote
Battleships serve a very important purpose. They are a "new player likely not to stay in Eve long" filter! New players that are all about the minimum skills to get into the "biggest" ship love them! And the people that like to blow up people that rushed into thier first battleship love them too!
I have on occasion found myself enjoying a battleship mostly for the high alpha they can produce and even flew one in the last Alliance tournament I was in. I got blown up pretty fast but that was sort of the point. We wanted a distraction while other ships like our tanked "Battle Blackbird" flew around just to survive and win us the match.
I have seen them used to be not half bad mining platforms!
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18392
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Posted - 2016.11.08 19:52:32 -
[108] - Quote
Steffles wrote: Except it is balanced without oversized mods.
I didn't use any and still got more tank, a bit more firepower, better tracking, half the sig, 3x the speed and cap stability.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1013
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Posted - 2016.11.09 00:58:07 -
[109] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote: Pick a battleship. I will fit and fly that battleship. Meet me in space with ANYTHING you choose to fly.
This scenario hides one of the major reasons why battleships aren't more popular. How about you fly the battleship and he flies whatever he wants, and both of you start in Jita and have to go to the deep end of Providence, with whoever gets there first being able to add to his fleet 1 friend/alt per every 10 minutes spent waiting for the other person. the op said PVP, not traveling This doesn't only involve traveling, but catching targets, engaging them and disengaging if required. Battleships (again, with a few exceptions) can do none of that very well. Now you could bring some friends to help you with that, or you can fit your battleship to warp fast, align quickly and have high(er) scan res. But that's just a band aid for a problem that shouldn't even be there, and then you could as well just fly a T3C and probably be better off in 9 out of 10 cases.
It doesn't really matter to me whether T3Cs, T3Ds (and Onyxes apparently - love that ship by the way) are too strong or Battleships (especially T1 and Navy variants) are too weak, that's a hen or egg type discussion and pretty pointless. But there's definitely a problem there. Now, having more of a nerf everything mindset, I'd like to see some changes made to other ships (specifically T3C) to make some space for Battleships to be useful. (D.I.C.K.S is a nerf to Bombers, so GJ CCP, hope it works out as planned) That doesn't necessarily mean to make those ships weaker across the board, but take some roles from them that battleships can fill.
For example, I can't see why some T3Cs should be able to project damage as far out as they do, and with great application too. That's what Battleships and Sniping HACs are there for, only that compared to a sniping T3C, a sniping HAC is wet paper and a Battleship is basically stationary. I can see why a HIC or Command Ship would need a huge tank that can rival a Battleships, especially considering ongrid boosters becoming a thing. I don't see why a T3C should have the same huge tank, when fitted for a DPS role. Doing lots of damage and still having a huge tank is what battleships are for, that's why they are so big and slow. I also don't see why an Onyx needs to have good range and application while still maintaining decent DPS. It's a ship specialized for pinning down targets, not for killing them. That's what Battleships, Battlecruisers or DPS-Cruisers/HACs should be doing.
Tanking while dealing damage or sniping are what battleships are good for, but in practice T3Cs (and sometimes HICs) are better in most cases, due to being able to do that as well and more. (sig-tank, tackle, travel, even warp cloaked and ignore bubbles - yes, that requires a refit, but that's not really a hindrance these days like it was back when they were released). |
Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2016.11.09 04:05:33 -
[110] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Steffles wrote: Except it is balanced without oversized mods.
I didn't use any and still got more tank, a bit more firepower, better tracking, half the sig, 3x the speed and cap stability. Me vs You. Non-T3C's. Ships are at bottom. I took one of your mega's from zkillboard.
Onyx - DPS 535 Tank 1965 (2495) active; I usually use a improved blue pill but I'll leave it out this time but it would get me 3k Cap Stable Kite Range 40k Speed 650 (840)
Your Navy Mega DPS 960 paper Tank 150,000 buffer Cap Stable (until charges run out) ; 4 38 seconds Kite Range 4+13 Speed 379 (497)
Lets say you land on me at 10km. It will take you 7 seconds to lock me. I'll be just inside your heavy stasis range and outside your scram range (not that that matters) by the time you've locked me , the nuet is the only problem for me. Your dps is about 100. With your nuet on me I cap out in 2.27 in that time the speed difference between us would put me 50km from you. Before that happens I'm outside your nuet range, orbiting you at 35k and your dps is pretty much 0, I can easily tank your drones. All this time my light missiles are doing 100% damage @ around 270dps, almost 3 times your large blaster damage if I was sitting in your optimal not moving. You're dead.
No T3C needed.
[Megathron Navy Issue, baltec1's Megathron Navy Issue] 1600mm Steel Plates II 1600mm Steel Plates II Centum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II
100MN Afterburner II Heavy Stasis Grappler II Warp Scrambler II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 3200
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x4 Ogre II x1 Warrior II x5
[Onyx, Kiting DPS] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery Shield Boost Amplifier II Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type EM Ward Field Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
True Sansha Warp Disruption Field Generator, Focused Warp Disruption Script Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Medium Core Defense Operational Solidifier II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2016.11.09 06:12:55 -
[111] - Quote
Heres another one for you Baltec.
DPS: 700 dps Tank Both Reppers: 700 (914) Tank: Large Reprieve (3 minutes under 1 Heavy Nuet) (MWD Off 17 minutes) 484 (627) Tank: Corelum Medium (Cap Stable under 1 Heavy Nuet) 222 (287) Speed: 2000 (3000)
Its unkillable by your mega. Your max dps is less then the med repper even if I sat still.
[Deimos, GankBaltecAThron] Large 'Reprieve' Vestment Reconstructer I Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Explosive Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Thukker Large Cap Battery True Sansha Stasis Webifier True Sansha Warp Scrambler Corelum C-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Hammerhead II x5
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1014
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Posted - 2016.11.09 09:35:31 -
[112] - Quote
Well it is a bit unfair to pit a poor mans T2 fit Megathron against a 1.6B Swag-Onyx. But in the end there's nothing you could slap onto the Megathron to give it a boost equal to what the Onyx gets by fitting a Battleship-sized Booster. Capital modules don't fit on a BS. :D |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18396
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Posted - 2016.11.09 09:35:58 -
[113] - Quote
Spoken like someone who doesn't fly battleships.
Now lets look at the meta out there. If you want a battleship fleet you turn to T3C because they are faster, tank more, get better tracking and a so forth. People are not using battleships not because of any fault of the battleships, its because the T3C do their job better, same goes for AHAC fleets, BC fleets and so on.
Its not the oversized mods, its the massive amount of bonuses T3C get coupled with ample fitting room. No amount of your posting is going to change anyones mind on this, we all know thse ships are horribly overpowered, CCP knows they are horribly overpowered and they have been for far far too long. |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3636
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Posted - 2016.11.09 09:38:58 -
[114] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Spoken like someone who doesn't fly battleships.
Now lets look at the meta out there. If you want a battleship fleet you turn to T3C because they are faster, tank more, get better tracking and a so forth. People are not using battleships not because of any fault of the battleships, its because the T3C do their job better, same goes for AHAC fleets, BC fleets and so on.
Its not the oversized mods, its the massive amount of bonuses T3C get coupled with ample fitting room. No amount of your posting is going to change anyones mind on this, we all know thse ships are horribly overpowered, CCP knows they are horribly overpowered and they have been for far far too long.
im seeing less and less t3c fleets going around these days...
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18396
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Posted - 2016.11.09 09:42:38 -
[115] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
im seeing less and less t3c fleets going around these days...
The breakup of the old empires means a lot have moved around and money has been more tight. Now that people are getting settled expect them to come back. They have not lost any of their power. |
Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2016.11.09 11:34:40 -
[116] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Spoken like someone who doesn't fly battleships.
Now lets look at the meta out there. If you want a battleship fleet you turn to T3C because they are faster, tank more, get better tracking and a so forth. People are not using battleships not because of any fault of the battleships, its because the T3C do their job better, same goes for AHAC fleets, BC fleets and so on.
Its not the oversized mods, its the massive amount of bonuses T3C get coupled with ample fitting room. No amount of your posting is going to change anyones mind on this, we all know thse ships are horribly overpowered, CCP knows they are horribly overpowered and they have been for far far too long. You can lead a man to water but you can't make him think... I have shown you, with evidence, that it is indeed the oversized modules that are causing the problem.
Show me a T3C that doesn't use oversized modules that is overpowered. I'd be interested to see one.
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3636
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Posted - 2016.11.09 11:39:21 -
[117] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
im seeing less and less t3c fleets going around these days...
The breakup of the old empires means a lot have moved around and money has been more tight. Now that people are getting settled expect them to come back. The only reason goons went with megathrons was due to training time, organisations who can mass field T3C have the advantage. They have not lost any of their power.
hope not, i like my machariels
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Memphis Baas
2209
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Posted - 2016.11.09 13:28:43 -
[118] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Now lets look at the meta out there. If you want a battleship fleet you turn to T3C because they are faster, tank more, get better tracking and a so forth. People are not using battleships not because of any fault of the battleships, its because the T3C do their job better, same goes for AHAC fleets, BC fleets and so on.
That's the thing, though. You're implying that, if only they nerfed the T3C's faster, all would be right with battleships and everyone would fly them. When in fact, with T3C's made worthless, there are still a number of other ships that need to be nerfed before battleships are flown.
T3C HAC 2 Battlecruisers couple friends in T1 cruisers Battleship
CCP would have to do a lot of nerfing before battleships become desirable. You keep refocusing the discussion to "nerf T3C only!" when in fact that doesn't solve the problem of battleships, it just solves the problem of T3C's. I'm sick of discussing the problem of T3C's, this is a battleships thread! ****. |
Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2016.11.09 13:44:47 -
[119] - Quote
So I looked up a few of Pandemic Legions recent battles using T3C's. This is what I found - PL used the following ships T3C's (condensed for readability and at the bottom of this post)
The first T3C is the Proteus fitted with an oversized 1600mm battleship plate.
The use of a battleship plate took the ship from 130,000 ehp (had it been using 800mm cruiser sized plates) to 160,000 ehp or provided an extra 30,000 ehp, about that of a T1 cruiser.
However this is not where it stops. Its extremely like there was a booster in the battle so we need to consider the boosts. When boosts are applied to this ship the EHP jumps from 160,000 EHP to 220,000 EHP. 220K ehp for a cruiser. That's very overpowered.
For a Proteus with 800mm plates the boost would have been 30,000 ehp, making the Proteus have 160,000 EHP. In effect, the use of a single battleship sized module provided a massive 60,000 extra EHP on top of its already very good 160,000, that's the EHP of two cruisers on a cruiser just from one oversized modules. The end result is it went from high end battlecruiser EHP to high end battleship EHP.
I won't do the same with the legion however its a very similiar result. Remember you can easily fit 2 or 3 of these plates on a Proteus.
[Proteus, Dog0fWaRR's Proteus Oversized] Damage Control II Syndicate 1600mm Steel Plates Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x 2 True Sansha Armor EM Hardener True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II x 3
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Wanda Fayne
285
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Posted - 2016.11.10 03:44:44 -
[120] - Quote
Steffles wrote: Show me a T3C that doesn't use oversized modules that is overpowered. I'd be interested to see one.
[Proteus, LogiProtiBeast] Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Proteus Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Damage Control II Federation Navy 800mm Steel Plates True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Republic Fleet Medium Cap Battery Republic Fleet Medium Cap Battery Republic Fleet Medium Cap Battery
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x3 Hammerhead II x5
Scan Resolution Script x1 Nanite Repair Paste x200 =========
Reps 80% more than a fully fitted Guardian. 54% more than a Oneiros.
Can do the same thing with a Tengu vs/ Basi or Scythe.
Fact: T3C logi reps harder than a T2 logi.
Next argument...?
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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