Sorry, wrong.

When I started I tryed mining like most causal player. Mining frig -> Arbitrator -> T1 barg -> T2 barg -> 00 mining -> WH mining and never lost a singel mining ship. So I can't be that terrible, can I? I just stoped as it's BOOOOOOORING to pay for sitting around doing nothing but watch (often) bugged mining lasers and/or drones.

And sure, when you earn 200m/h you can pay people to protect you (as good as posible). But that's not the case (nor was it when I started, so don't know about 2003 when piracy and can flipping was no problem) anymore.

Becouse of all the bot mining, drone region loot and normal loot you are lucky, when you reach 50m/h even in WH/00 (counting all the afford to get the ore to trade hubs).

And you can't be seriously compareing rat BS to player BS. That's just a bad joke! Who cares about rats when mining?
A singel T1 cruiser is enough to kill a T1 mining ship (see all the Ruptur vids/mails) with 1 to 3 shots. That's FAR away from 3 BS! And 1 to 3 shots isn't even even enough time for remote armor reps to get a single cycle through!

How does introducing randomization make mining more interactive? Since you can't actually tell what grade you're mining, it doesn't matter. You just vacuum up everything and hope, since nobody will grab a little of each and jump back to refine and check. (Because that's even less fun than what we have now.)

[3. Nope, I'm saying that no mining ship (fit for mining) should be able to survive any decent attack by a player combat ship.

3. Nope, I'm saying that no mining ship (fit for mining) should be able to survive any decent attack by a player combat ship. So beyond being able to tank BS spawns, it doesn't need more tank (tank doesn't keep you alive when under attack from players, killing them does).

EDIT: If you've never lost a mining ship, why are you complaining about its tank? RunAwayTanking your Hulk is working as intended.

Ever........at ALL ???

WHAT is your INSANE justification oh MIGHTY EPEEN One ??????????????

Enlighten us all please why a CERTAIN ship class absolutely should not be able to survive ???

What RL situation is equivalent in the least ?????

No industrial company would put ANY equipment at that kind of risk.

My bitterness is, that is TO EASY for highsec gankers.

I buy a TECH 2 ship for 400 MILLION ISK without fitting, with fitting it can reach 1 BILLION easily.
And a stupid nobrain wannabe e-peen sucker without real life just need a damn T1 ship for less then 100 million WITH fitting where half the slots are empty (guns+4 ups REST EMPTY) to destroy it in seconds WITHOUT any changs to survive => 100% and total balance FAIL!!
And that's in HIGH SECURE SPACE where Concord should handle this sorts of criminal actions.

If Concord can't get in in time ... how the **** should a player be able too??
Concord reacts in 10 or less seconds. A mining barg needs MORE time to alligne! And no, staying at full speed is NO OPTION. Same for faction mods which would make them just a more likely target!

In addition, every time there are one or more stupid kids, which try to give fail by intend advises like "fit tank, don't mine when XY happens bla bla bla" ... I wish to see YOUR reaction, when someone tells you, to NOT do what every you want to do at any time. YOU would collaps this forum with all your pink baby whining!

1) ANY ship must be fitteble by using just common T2 mods WITHOUT fitting mods (ak no CPU, no grid upgrades!)
Every sucking cruiser fit includes LARGH T2 shield extender ... but a TECH TWO cruiser size ship can't even fit T2 MEDIUM?
Just a realy REALY bad joke from CCP!
No ship designer with brain would construct such a bullshit of a hull!
Either nerv combat ships so that anything but BS+ size is UNABLE to fit largh extender/1600mm plates OR buff bargs and haulers so they can fit the same mods!

2) Other ore resurces (drones/loot) must be overhault to bring profit from this profession in line again!

To the guy above,

Player protection is nearly just as useless in todays situation with hulks popping faster than the gaurds could respond. Fully tanked out hulks cannot withstand suicide gankers in today's envrionment either.

If you want to prove me wrong, goto the gallente high sec belts and get ganked in that hulk you thought should have survived.

Matter of factly I challenge you to counter the gallente belt ganking to the point the goons leave you alone there.

Also they do make amored bulldozers its time eve got the equivalent.

And no its not a shovel protecting against an ak-47 which some are quite capable at doing vs regular clothes. Its a shovel protecting against an RPG which doesnt work on any degree (then agian alot of traditional armor doenst work against an RPG either as rpgs basically create a nuclear explosion on the other side of the armor they penetrate.)

and Ill agree with gunminign needs to go. Metalevel Blueprints and the additional meta-level parts needed to build the module to drop instead.

So I should be able to fit a doomsday on my Ibis. Gotcha. Ships make up for fitting limitations in other ways (ever see thorax pull in 3k m3 of ore in 3 min?).

Why would you want to punish player success?

With this you disqualified yourselve.

Ibis == titan hull yes yes
combat ship thorax mining == mining ship coveto dishing out 500+ DPS

troll more

People like you are the one, who destroy any reputation for real PvP players with your FAIL comments.

But Titans are ship hulls and all ships should be able to use the same modules. You're complaint was that the Hulk's powergrid is tiny. My point is that it's big enough for strip miners and enough tank to survive even the toughest rats. That's what it is designed to do.

And with this you displayed all of us, that you understand nothing OR just want to troll.
Read again.

CRUISER fitting ability == CRUISER fitting ability
MEDIUM moduls for MEDIUM hulls

This is what I demand!

But I do any bet ... you don't care but just want to troll more.

My point is that it's big enough for strip miners and enough tank to survive even the toughest rats. That's what it is designed to do.

Anything tanks rats. Proves nothing.

I don't take your comments out of context, I'd ask you to afford me the same courtesy.

The Defensive buffer modules don't have sizes. They have fitting requirements. In fact if we start at the top and match ship hulls with tank mods:
LSE -- Battleship
MSE -- Cruiser
SSE -- Frigate
MicroSE --- ?

If we go from the bottom up, or we include Battlecruisers, it gets worse for your argument.

If we accept the premise that tank modules have sizes that relate to ship hull sizes (which I don't accept), then the fact that combat ships can fit oversized tanking modules shouldn't bother you.

Your Hulk's ability to tank belt rats means it can mine anywhere with complete safety. It's the other players that are the problem. And that's how a Multiplayer Sandbox works. You build a sandcastle, I can knock it down. But then you can knock down my sandcastle. Even further than that, you build a sandcastle, there's now less sand (or space) for my sandcastle, and the only way to make more space is to knock yours down.

Well, I don't care, if a Caracal can fit TWO LSE ... but it's just a bad joke from you, to claim "mining ships shouldn't be allowed to use ONE MSE at the same time".
And that's what you do!
This just let one conclusion: you try hard to troll and claime balance to your favor (ak WANT INBALANCE).

From the link "I gank your barg, you gank my POS ..."
So you EXPECT and FORCE every one to wast their training time (SP) for combat skills just as YOU want it this way.

Some player do NOT want to be fighters.
So who are you to FORCE them to be one?

There's a very good mining ship that lets you fit a fair tank (including your magic LSE) and pulls in more than 2/3 the ore a Hulk does. It's the Rokh.

The size of the hull is irrelevant. The role of the ship is what matters. Claiming that cruiser hulls should have access to the same fittings is ridiculous.

Why are you in a PvP game if you don't want PvP? A Multiplayer Sandbox with a Player driven market is a PvP game regardless of whether there's any shooting.

You joined a dark, harsh, and lawless game (as it is advertised) and now you're complaining that it's too dark, harsh, and lawless?

Again the balance is simple. Massively increased hull HP.

A) Forces miners to equip a DCU if they want to have a better chance to survive against lower cost ships.

B) Forces miners who have been attacked to sit and use a slow hull repair system (This can be further enhanced by a 50 percent hull repair amount penalty granted to the mining barges encouraging use of remote hull repairs)

C) Is an easy system to implement.

Again the balance is simple. Massively increased hull HP.

A) Forces miners to equip a DCU if they want to have a better chance to survive against lower cost ships.

B) Forces miners who have been attacked to sit and use a slow hull repair system (This can be further enhanced by a 50 percent hull repair amount penalty granted to the mining barges encouraging use of remote hull repairs)

C) Is an easy system to implement.

Adding slots, CPU and grid to get compareble defensive fittings like combat medium hulls isn't more work then your hull increase.

PS: and why do you want to pre-gimp them again with repair penaltys ???
Absolut no reason for this!

Miners are no second class players! They pay the same real money for their playtime. And as they do so, they DESERVE the same posibilitys (wtf repair penalty????).
CCP would be stupid to handle them as second class custumers!

At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.