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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
62
   |
Posted - 2011.12.27 21:07:00 -
[151] - Quote
I agree that changing drones to bounties would be for the best in that regard. However when that happens the issue is only going to get worse with the stark difference between cost to gank and cost to ship and fit.
It should be quite distant but not THAT distant. A good fit dessie popping a hulk before concord arrives? You HAVE to admit that is wrong. Boosting hull HP means that dessie would die before he could deplete the hull HP and thus requires more of them or an expensive bigger craft.
It would reduce the amount of cheap ganks and atleast make the ganks that do happen forum post worthy. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
214
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 21:33:00 -
[152] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I agree that changing drones to bounties would be for the best in that regard. However when that happens the issue is only going to get worse with the stark difference between cost to gank and cost to ship and fit.
It should be quite distant but not THAT distant. A good fit dessie popping a hulk before concord arrives? You HAVE to admit that is wrong. Boosting hull HP means that dessie would die before he could deplete the hull HP and thus requires more of them or an expensive bigger craft.
It would reduce the amount of cheap ganks and atleast make the ganks that do happen forum post worthy.
A 0 tank ship designed solely to do incredible DPS (850 with a LOLfit Catalyst) able to destroy a *Mining* vessel quickly seems perfectly fine to me.
An on the ball Alpha BC (tornado) can easily kill a gank dessie between their going GCC and the Hulk popping. So, then they gank the BC first, so you tank that and gank their BC ganker first and it awesomely escalates. Unfortunately mining is nowhere near lucrative enough to justify them, and fixing drone poop will fix that. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 21:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
No it is not. Not in the least when you consider the micro cost to fit said LOLfit.
Massively boost the Hull HP and that ship goes back to extreme 0 tank combat ship popper like it should be or even better requires Wolfpacks of said ships to encourage grouping. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
214
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 22:27:00 -
[154] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:No it is not. Not in the least when you consider the micro cost to fit said LOLfit.
Massively boost the Hull HP and that ship goes back to extreme 0 tank combat ship popper like it should be or even better requires Wolfpacks of said ships to encourage grouping.
That LOLfit is Lol cause it costs ~6 bil. That's the definition of a LOLfit: Too ridiculous to fly.
And let's be realistic. In .5 space it takes at least a Thorax or Brutix to suicide a Hulk. Not a solo catalyst.
And if we want to encourage grouping, group with some other miners and pay someone to sit on you with an instalock Alpha Tornado. They get to kill suicide gankers, and make ganking you require Alpha rather than blaster dps. Alpha's more expensive. Problem solved. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1095
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 03:11:00 -
[155] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Sorry, but the facts of life are: someone must mine to make your ships.
We no mine......we make-y no shippies.......you no fly-eeeee.
Then no game-ey.
Holy crap...are there still people that believe this?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Shag Sheep
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 05:01:00 -
[156] - Quote
^ and that is why things do need to change. If the CCP is serious about the rock paper sizzors idea of game play and ballance then mining does need to be by far the main if not sole supplier of ore.
At the moment a player starting out as a miner is discovering that it's a half arsed low pay profession in this game. That's in regards to time and skill training compared to the rewards. The profession (if you can call it that the way it is now) doesen't even pay enough for the average player to pay for any sort of protection as is advised by others... not that any of that protection would matter against any low cost, half arsed gank.
Time for a shakeup CCP. Do away with the mining all together or make it as viable as any other profession.
RANT RANT RANT
 |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 06:31:00 -
[157] - Quote
The issue with removing mining altogether is that there are people that strangely enjoy it or use it as a low stress way to make funds.
I think it has the potential for discussion later on but right now the issue is reducing the extreme gap between cost of victim and ganker in hisec.
The best way to DIRECTLY change that is hull HP increase. You only increase it enough to increase the gank cost by a huge amount. Not to give it a way to survive a good nullsec attack or a way to tank the belt rats without extremely good gear. |
Shag Sheep
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 09:15:00 -
[158] - Quote
^I agree.
Isn't it interesting how the people who argue against the rebalancing the mining profession or making the ships harder to gank, are as a majority the type who hate mining. Hate it because of the boredom or low pay... it's not their play style.
Their arguments are based on their play style. That's why they can't understand I guess. They can't come to grips with the idea that the type of player who likes mining doesn't enjoy the things they do. Why wouldn't they giggle at having their ship pop? It was a great fight after all. Just buy another one and fight again. Yeah....
For a miner it's like walking up 10,000 steps to get to the top of a hill and the ganker rides up in seconds on a speedy motorbike, jumps off and pushes the miner down to the bottom laughing. The ganker then buzzes off to the next hill to do the same to the next miner. It's fun! why wouldn't you enjoy it??? Their mindset... their limited ability to think beyond what they know means they can't comprehend the idea that the miner isn't on a motorbike and buzzing from thrill to thrill like they are. If they were, the loss wouldn't matter so much either. They'd just buzz up the next hill as well.
They can't you dumb arse.
 |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1097
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 09:42:00 -
[159] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:The issue with removing mining altogether is that there are people that strangely enjoy it or use it as a low stress way to make funds.
The vast majority of people who mine say they do it because it can be done while tabbed out of the client while they are doing something else or can be done while they watch a movie or something outside the game. No other "profession" in the game can be played AFK so why should miners be allowed to? If a person is actually playing the game there is absolutely no way for them to be ganked in highsec...why should afk gameplay be made easier?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
77
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 20:54:00 -
[160] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
1. Drone Poop is a huge mineral faucet
In NULL.
Go after THEM.
The Drone Poop in High is PATHETIC.
Please GROW brains...........PLEASE.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1103
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 20:59:00 -
[161] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
1. Drone Poop is a huge mineral faucet
In NULL. Go after THEM. The Drone Poop in High is PATHETIC. Please GROW brains...........PLEASE.
I like alloys in high sec .. it makes me sad that it will get removed eventually.. But than again new faction modules and other loot + bounty.. uniqueness is gone.. however being unique is not always for the best. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
77
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:00:00 -
[162] - Quote
Shag Sheep wrote:^I agree.
Isn't it interesting how the people who argue against the rebalancing the mining profession or making the ships harder to gank, are as a majority the type who hate mining. Hate it because of the boredom or low pay... it's not their play style.
Their arguments are based on their play style. That's why they can't understand I guess. They can't come to grips with the idea that the type of player who likes mining doesn't enjoy the things they do.
'Tis a curious, almost psychopathic phenomena.
Personally, I don't care WHAT people do ingame, I hate not one profession over another. IT IS A SANDBOX !!
And where on Earth in their tiny little minds they get this infantile notion to 'hate' another's playstyle...personally IT IS NONE OF THIER BUSINESS.
And it seems to me they are just BORED and don't want to really figure out this game and how it is played well.
Welp, their time is coming. When they turn 46 years old, they will look back and go OMG if they are not in the 80% of them by then burned out on Rockstar and Chetoh-Dust clogging the arteries while walking home from yet another Rehab or Institution.
ROFL. They will look back on their pathetic lives, if they are smart enough to survive to 46 that is.
I doubt. Really I do.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
77
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:02:00 -
[163] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
I like alloys in high sec .. it makes me sad that it will get removed eventually.. But than again new faction modules and other loot + bounty.. uniqueness is gone.. however being unique is not always for the best.
Those alloys are pathetic in amount in High Sec. Waste of ISK Earned/Hr.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1103
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:03:00 -
[164] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
I like alloys in high sec .. it makes me sad that it will get removed eventually.. But than again new faction modules and other loot + bounty.. uniqueness is gone.. however being unique is not always for the best.
Those alloys are pathetic in amount in High Sec. Waste of ISK Earned/Hr.
not everything have to be about isk per hour  |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
77
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:08:00 -
[165] - Quote
Face it. This is all about Null-bears.
They want to mine (! YES) and Manufacture as the ingame Monopoly IN THEIR AREA with SLAVES with thier lazy playstyle anyway.
Look at the boring NOTHING crap going on in Null right now. One 'War in the North' is nada. THEY are BORED.
If there were anything going on down there, they would not be up here circle jerking all over Gallente.
CCP's fault for fracking Null. All of it. And not doing ANYTHING about it.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:47:00 -
[166] - Quote
Ok enough of the null and hisec group comparisons. We need solutions such as my boost hull HP idea.
I may post a topic in testing requesting a temporary implementation of my idea of Sisi for testing. If it is approved I hope you miners will log in and work to provide CCP with info on how it affects your survivability. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1121
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 22:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ok enough of the null and hisec group comparisons. We need solutions such as my boost hull HP idea.
No we don't. Your solution just feeds into the idea that miners should be able to play AFK and rely on CCP making mining vessels "safe".
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Minta Contha
Emergent Entity
KONZERN
26
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 23:49:00 -
[168] - Quote
I'm a miner.
I don't think mining should be made any easier than it already is. It's not hard to avoid ganking if you're clever, and if there was never any threat then mining would be so stultifyingly dull that I don't think I could cope with it.
There is NO NEED for "better" mining ships or modules. If people go into the mining profession, they should be aware of its limitations and either accept them, or do something else. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
241
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 00:16:00 -
[169] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
1. Drone Poop is a huge mineral faucet
In NULL. Go after THEM. The Drone Poop in High is PATHETIC. Please GROW brains...........PLEASE.
People do. The Gunminers rat aligned and GTFO when threatened. Thus they have adapted to the threat of being ganked. Why is it too much to ask hisec miners to adapt a little?
Drone poop dropped in Null is an issue for all of EVE as evidenced by the fact that it killed mining income in *all* of Eve.
The base value of maxed out Hisec PvE is l4s at roughly 50m/hr. Something that falls below this needs a buff, something that trends above it needs a Nerf. (Mining maxes out at ~10m/hr, Incursions max at over 100m/hr. Both need alteration)
The base value of maxed out Nullsec PvE is anomaly farming at roughly 70-100m/hr. Something that falls below this needs a buff, something that trends above it needs a Nerf. (Mining maxes out at ~20-30m/hr clearing hidden belts (which you have to), and nothing really trends above that)
Drone anomalies in Null provide more mineral wealth (measured in m3) per hour than mining in a maxed out, Rorq boosted Hulk. They also produce a very high proportion of high ends. This means they directly compete with mining and they're strictly better at it (except Trit). This is probably not great for the miners of Eve. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
725
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 01:34:00 -
[170] - Quote
Drone guts have barely dented mineral high sec prices according to my spreadsheets I wrote out four years ago. All it did was move the location of the ores and lowered the isk per hour to a measly 4.5 million. With veldspare and bistot leading the packs.
|
Karthwritte
Darthrin Storm Enterprise
Drunken Capsuleers
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 01:37:00 -
[171] - Quote
I am one of those who want it more harder, more fun and more rewarding. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
268
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 02:28:00 -
[172] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
'Tis a curious, almost psychopathic phenomena.
Personally, I don't care WHAT people do ingame, I hate not one profession over another. IT IS A SANDBOX !!
And where on Earth in their tiny little minds they get this infantile notion to 'hate' another's playstyle...personally IT IS NONE OF THIER BUSINESS.
GREAT, so you don't mind that some people's profession involves blowing up your ships while you're working on your profession. You're OK with the suicide ganking status quo, and as such you understand the idea behind Eve. |
Karthwritte
Darthrin Storm Enterprise
Drunken Capsuleers
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 02:55:00 -
[173] - Quote
Do Devs check the "Features & Ideas" in the forums or should I post "another idea for changing the mining mechanics" here in this thread or in another thread in EVE General...
Because I see a lot of threads here with devs but not there. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
268
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 03:03:00 -
[174] - Quote
Karthwritte wrote:Do Devs check the "Features & Ideas" in the forums or should I post "another idea for changing the mining mechanics" here in this thread or in another thread in EVE General...
Because I see a lot of threads here with devs but not there.
The Dev's post in the F&I forum threads with *good* ideas. They post in the GD forum threads with F&I Content pretty reliably:
"This Thread has been moved to F&I" |
Karthwritte
Darthrin Storm Enterprise
Drunken Capsuleers
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 03:10:00 -
[175] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
The Dev's post in the F&I forum threads with *good* ideas. They post in the GD forum threads with F&I Content pretty reliably:
"This Thread has been moved to F&I"
Thanks, you made me make the right decision. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
134
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 17:23:00 -
[176] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
1. Drone Poop is a huge mineral faucet
In NULL. Go after THEM. The Drone Poop in High is PATHETIC. Please GROW brains...........PLEASE. People do. The Gunminers rat aligned and GTFO when threatened. Thus they have adapted to the threat of being ganked. Why is it too much to ask hisec miners to adapt a little? Drone poop dropped in Null is an issue for all of EVE as evidenced by the fact that it killed mining income in *all* of Eve. The base value of maxed out Hisec PvE is l4s at roughly 50m/hr. Something that falls below this needs a buff, something that trends above it needs a Nerf. (Mining maxes out at ~10m/hr, Incursions max at over 100m/hr. Both need alteration) The base value of maxed out Nullsec PvE is anomaly farming at roughly 70-100m/hr. Something that falls below this needs a buff, something that trends above it needs a Nerf. (Mining maxes out at ~20-30m/hr clearing hidden belts (which you have to), and nothing really trends above that) Drone anomalies in Null provide more mineral wealth (measured in m3) per hour than mining in a maxed out, Rorq boosted Hulk. They also produce a very high proportion of high ends. This means they directly compete with mining and they're strictly better at it (except Trit). This is probably not great for the miners of Eve.
This is what some of us have been yelling about to CCP for years AND the CAM...to no avail whatsoever.
Thanks for the clarifying the issue with some number crinching...........
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
134
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 17:25:00 -
[177] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
'Tis a curious, almost psychopathic phenomena.
Personally, I don't care WHAT people do ingame, I hate not one profession over another. IT IS A SANDBOX !!
And where on Earth in their tiny little minds they get this infantile notion to 'hate' another's playstyle...personally IT IS NONE OF THIER BUSINESS.
GREAT, so you don't mind that some people's profession involves blowing up your ships while you're working on your profession. You're OK with the suicide ganking status quo, and as such you understand the idea behind Eve.
I do indeed like the challenge of avoiding ganks. Mining would be TRULY boring then.
Issue is IT IS TOO EASY. That's all.
If you read the 'gankers' posts, you will realize their objective is utterly [b]UNREALISTIC and INFANTILE: TO WIN ABSOLUTELY EVRY SINGLE TIME !![/b
It is CLEAR this is the goal.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
988
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 08:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
'Tis a curious, almost psychopathic phenomena.
Personally, I don't care WHAT people do ingame, I hate not one profession over another. IT IS A SANDBOX !!
And where on Earth in their tiny little minds they get this infantile notion to 'hate' another's playstyle...personally IT IS NONE OF THIER BUSINESS.
GREAT, so you don't mind that some people's profession involves blowing up your ships while you're working on your profession. You're OK with the suicide ganking status quo, and as such you understand the idea behind Eve. I do indeed like the challenge of avoiding ganks. Mining would be TRULY boring then. Issue is IT IS TOO EASY. That's all. If you read the 'gankers' posts, you will realize their objective is utterly UNREALISTIC and INFANTILE: TO WIN ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE TIME !!It is CLEAR this is the goal.
They loose 100% of the time. Most of the time they happen to make the miner lose as well. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
242
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:35:00 -
[179] - Quote
BUMP.
This ain't over yet...............
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Slade Trillgon
T.R.I.A.D
191
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:50:00 -
[180] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:I am acutally one of the ones on the other side of the fence and want to make it alot harder.
With continued work on loot drop and reprocessing rates combined with more work on alloy reprocessing rates.
This hopefully would help bump the prices of minerals a bit to help swallow up more of the flow from all those faucets out there.
Slade
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