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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
376
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Posted - 2011.12.25 23:55:00 -
[91] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:B) Forces miners who have been attacked to sit and use a slow hull repair system (This can be further enhanced by a 50 percent hull repair amount penalty granted to the mining barges encouraging use of remote hull repairs)
A miner who has been attacked is going to be looking for a new ship, unless the would-be attackers didn't do the basics of scanning the ship to estimate the EHP before setting a squad of destroyers onto the target.
As it stands, a Hulk cannot fit a tank equivalent to what any T2 cruiser can fit. A moderate increase in the EHP of exhumers would lead to suicide ganking requiring more pilots in coordination. No longer would three pilots be able to lock down a system 24 hours a day. Even if the EHP was only doubled, the would-be gankers would need to double their numbers, thus inflicting upon their collective selves double the effort to restore their security status.
Then there's the issue of miners being forced to exist at known locations in space. Mission-runners need to be probed down or ganked on station. Miners are sitting in space next to publicly visible beacons, which more or less advertise, "easy targets here!"
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
682
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Posted - 2011.12.25 23:57:00 -
[92] - Quote
Bleh forum ate my post.
Anyways to make it simple.
1 They dont have AK-47s its RPGs and Javlins, the equipment being brought to bear against a miner works just as damned well against miltiary targets.
2 Stop short sighting yourself and assume poorly of what I think is the greatest testing ground for combat logistics exists in that High sec Ice belt. If it works there it should work most elsewhere.
3 Success is a punishment, didnt anyone from the progressives minded tell you that?
4 Meta-Module Mining has always been a problem well before drone regions. CCP stated they're looking at getting rid of guts in belt and complex rats so I already wrote them off on a casuatly list and thinking ahead.
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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 00:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
The "hull" repair penalty is to balance for the massively increased hull HP. As others have stated more slots will allow easier tanking against PVE targets. Which is NOT the goal here.
To tank nullsec rats you SHOULD have to fit hundreds of millions of isk worth of fits. You dont tank with hull.
Also the hull repair penalty encourages fleet ops. As one person can sit in a repair domi or some other cheap ship with some hull RRs without dealing with the penealty.
As for docking. If you want to pay the extreme repair costs. Be my guest it still is a balance. |
SpaceSquirrels
42
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 00:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mining just needs an interactive more fun aspect to it. You can leave it so it's afkable as well I suppose, but should get rewarded for being awake at the keyboard. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
685
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:09:00 -
[95] - Quote
Yeah the 6 points I brought up on how to improve the profession would work to be less afk and more rewarding to those who understand and try to skill up a bit more.
I also want to call into nerfs into other areas which would encourage moving out of high sec.
Think of it as the cost of safety.
Another thing I like to see put in would be a beacon something easy to warp back too without having ot make and delete bookmarks,
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
163
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Posted - 2011.12.26 01:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:
Well, I don't care, if a Caracal can fit TWO LSE ... but it's just a bad joke from you, to claim "mining ships shouldn't be allowed to use ONE MSE at the same time".
And that's what you do!
This just let one conclusion: you try hard to troll and claime balance to your favor (ak WANT INBALANCE).
There's a very good mining ship that lets you fit a fair tank (including your magic LSE) and pulls in more than 2/3 the ore a Hulk does. It's the Rokh. The size of the hull is irrelevant. The role of the ship is what matters. Claiming that cruiser hulls should have access to the same fittings is ridiculous.
well yes Rokh can have something round 162k ehp with resists from the worse 66per emp to the best 83 per. explo.. 818 yield and 1295 m3 cargo.. well it would be clicking nightmare but it was done before it can be done again..
Problem is it cant mine ice. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:25:00 -
[97] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.
And Mining is what, Hard?
certainly more expensive  |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
206
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.
And Mining is what, Hard? certainly more expensive
You lose your mining ship every time you go out mining 
And the Insurance nerf should help with that (and that's a nerf that was a long time coming, insurance payout cause the PoPo shot you  )
Yeah, cheap ships, purposefully fit, can kill expensive ships. If that weren't true PvP would suck in this game. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
686
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:38:00 -
[99] - Quote
I dont think cost needs to be a factor into survivability.
What it should factor into is how well it kills stuff. Ships or rocks.
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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
I disagree.
Right now the cost for a successful hisec gank is extremely low. To fix this adding a massive boost to hull HP will mean more DPS needed and thus cost before concord arrives.
It should take an expensive fit Oracle or Tornado or Naga (Or a group of smaller ships) to destroy a hulk with a damage control system before concord arrives in most situations. The hull boost WILL do that. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
97
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:55:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.
Monkey's do.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1092
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 01:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.
Monkey's do.
Apostrophes are hard.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
63
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 15:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the moment EVE clearly favors piracy and ganking by making it easy enough that even a monky can do it.
Yuppers. Anyone with 7 days of skills can GANK a Mack.
Really pathetic balancing job since DAY ONE of EVE in 2003 on this particular point.
Even for a 'sandbox' (apparently the sand has been replaced by gunpowder).
CCP PLEASE FIX (yeah, right)
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 17:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I disagree.
Right now the cost for a successful hisec gank is extremely low. To fix this adding a massive boost to hull HP will mean more DPS needed and thus cost before concord arrives.
It should take an expensive fit Oracle or Tornado or Naga (Or a group of smaller ships) to destroy a hulk with a damage control system before concord arrives in most situations. The hull boost WILL do that.
How about leaving things as they are with PVP mechanics in High Sec.
For ganking, which is TOTALLY legal........cost is 200,000,000 per ship Ganked.
You can have your FUN.....but at a PRICE.......................
Sounds EXTREMELY fair to me.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
49
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 17:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
For ganking, which is TOTALLY legal........cost is 200,000,000 per ship Ganked.
You can have your FUN.....but at a PRICE.......................
some say: pvp in Eve will die. And Eve will die day later.
Idea of "paying for fun" is simply too extreme for "amateur Eve players" |
thekiller2002us
Order of Celestial Knights
S I L E N T.
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 17:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
they dont need to make mining harder- just the process of mining harder- in order to eliminate the bots- which can be done |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 17:25:00 -
[107] - Quote
Arklan1 wrote:the supply of minerals doesn't come mostly from mining (it's reprocessed mission/drone loot) for starters, so the effect of changes to mining itself is a more complex disucssion...
Really? Can you link where you got this info? I'd really liek to see it. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 17:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Frankly, I prefer to make mining more interactive. This has a two-fold effect. For starters, it makes mining less boring when you have to concentrate more and plan ahead more effectively. And second, it will put a dent onto the efforts of bot users. Personally, there is no need to buff the EHP of mining ships as there are already tools and mods available to do that. And no, mining should not be easier either as there are enough minerals being pumped into the market as it is.
Here are my ideas of interactivity:
1. Player has to periodically re-calibrate the mining crystals or else they would suffer diminished yields or module damage.
2. Asteroids should no longer be static horse shoe formations around planets. They should be in a single asteroid belt orbiting the stars while drifting across space at different rates to make it harder to AFK mine. Or at least cause the rocks to drift when a mining beam strikes the surface on one side.
Other changes:
1. Remove the re-processing of modules and ammo. I don't like it. It makes no sense to get back the minerals when their molecular structure has already been completely changed during the production process.
2. CCP should introduce damage-producing mining crystals that will allow a modulated strip miner to deal damage to a ship's hull directly. Considering the insane locking speed of a Hulk, this can allow a miner to fight back against high-sec suicide gankers. Of course, there can be a downside to this. The strip miners can suffer heat damage as well in the process and this can only be used when attacked unprovoked in high-sec. Imagine a fleet of Hulks making mince meat out of a suicide BC. |
Tubrug1
Stella Sanguinis
Yulai Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 18:09:00 -
[109] - Quote
we should have an asteroid that makes us cloak and look like veldspar, then when the miner activates his miner on us, he gets concorded.
Don't listen to what i say |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 19:45:00 -
[110] - Quote
thekiller2002us wrote:they dont need to make mining harder- just the process of mining harder- in order to eliminate the bots- which can be done
I've been screaming for them to make High Sec mining Probeable ONLY..............
Would solve absolutely EVERYTHING wrong with the whole mechanic, or at least 90% of the issues.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 19:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Arklan1 wrote:the supply of minerals doesn't come mostly from mining (it's reprocessed mission/drone loot) for starters, so the effect of changes to mining itself is a more complex disucssion...
Really? Can you link where you got this info? I'd really liek to see it.
I agree.......on WHERE the HECK do they get this idea.
The amount of Minerals actually obtained by running Drone Anomalies and from reprocessing the pathetic High Sec Loot (Except for Lvl 4's which at least half is worth selling), is actually quite small. Contributes maybe 2% to my 'single Hulk and an Orca' mining output.
This MAY be a problem in Null and some higher end Low Drone sites and reprocessing of the much better loot which will have more megacyte, zyd, and morph obviously than High Sec Loot.
Gank those people or something. This is NOT the problem in High.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 19:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:
1. Remove the re-processing of modules and ammo. I don't like it. It makes no sense to get back the minerals when their molecular structure has already been completely changed during the production process.
Oops. Wrong.
Minerals and elements such as Gold and Silicon are indeed retrieved in recycling of Electronic parts in RL.
OTHERWISE good post.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Enquirer
Core Industrialist Resurrected
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 20:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
They should sell "bot scripts" on the market for mining.
The more expensive one can have you dock up for safety and such... IE, the m ore the script does the more expensive it would cost. Plus maybe a mod that would allow you to run the script.
Player must be logged in to active bot script...
Its not like its already a bot controlled industry.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
65
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 20:10:00 -
[114] - Quote
Enquirer wrote:They should sell "bot scripts" on the market for mining.
The more expensive one can have you dock up for safety and such... IE, the m ore the script does the more expensive it would cost. Plus maybe a mod that would allow you to run the script.
Player must be logged in to active bot script...
Its not like its already a bot controlled industry.
Bad idea.
Putting Out Fire With Gasoline isn't just a David Bowie song......................
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
ElQuirko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 21:15:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Apostrophes are hard.
Looking at you and your grammarism, so are my "gentleman vegetables". What say you and I retire to my Captain's Quarters? |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 21:32:00 -
[116] - Quote
(thank you CCP for eating my first post )
Mining is a PvE activity in a non-consentual PvP game. Mining is not for providing mineral resources (that's what reprocessing and drone poo are for).
Mining is in Eve because a segment of the PvP community wants to quickly and easily blow up another RL player without the risk of being mocked in local for failing. I'll point to the Tier 3 BC's as evidence of that, where CCP introduced a ship specifically designed to achieve this exact outcome regardless of what type of mining barge is targeted or interference from Concord.
It's not a game imbalance, it's game design.
Working as intended.
Profit favors the prepared |
ElQuirko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 21:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:Mining is a PvE activity in a non-consentual PvP game. Mining is not for providing mineral resources (that's what reprocessing and drone poo are for).
Working as intended.
Flying a Mack is more of a PVP invite than opening a cyno in VFK-IV. |
March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 10:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Quote:
If Concord can't get in in time ... how the **** should a player be able too??
Concord reacts in 10 or less seconds. A mining barg needs MORE time to alligne! And no, staying at full speed is NO OPTION. Same for faction mods which would make them just a more likely target!
The player guard should already be in belt with you. And if you fit your hulk with 2 cargo expanders and 2 expander rigs, aligning out at 70% speed will be long enough to fill your cargo. Is it efficient? Not in the least. But it's safe.
i always wonder: how it can be that "pvp-players" can discuss how it some battle stuff is overpowered or underpowered (BUFF HYBRIDS!!!!) and at the same time they can advice "forget about any efficiency, fit tank" to miners?
would you tank your stealth bomber? Or maybe you passive armor tank your interceptor?
Or maybe you fit your drake with blasters? LOL?
So why do miners NEED TO DO the same? |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 10:27:00 -
[119] - Quote
Again the simple middle ground here is to greatly enhance hull HP. Make it so you have to have a pretty good skill and fit oracle to take out a hulk in time before Concord and the middle ground is achieved.
Flying without a damage control in hisec will then be crazy for mining craft. Partial decrease in effectiveness in mining in exchange for less ganks. Its fair. |
March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 10:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tubrug1 wrote:we should have an asteroid that makes us cloak and look like veldspar, then when the miner activates his miner on us, he gets concorded.
you are too lazy (or ... ) to even lock hulk and press F1??? |
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