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Why does everyone (sort of) want to making mining easier?

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1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 406	Posted - 2011.12.24 20:59:00 - [1] - Quote I see all these threads about people trying to make mining more of a passive isk maker and increasing hulk tanks and bigger and better ships to make mining easier. What they really should do is make mining harder, make it so less people do it, so then mineral prices rise, causing it to be more profitable. 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Halcyon Ingenium Warm Holes 70	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:01:00 - [2] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: I see all these threads about people trying to make mining more of a passive isk maker and increasing hulk tanks and bigger and better ships to make mining easier. What they really should do is make mining harder, make it so less people do it, so then mineral prices rise, causing it to be more profitable. The problem isn't the "people" who mine. Assuming there are any actual people left who mine at all. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus
Eladanus Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:05:00 - [3] - Quote I guess people want to make it easier so that it balances out against the boredom or AFK'ing. That and to compete against bots. People probably want to just increase hulk tanks as a reaction to all the hulk/miner killing recently
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 406	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:11:00 - [4] - Quote Eladanus wrote: I guess people want to make it easier so that it balances out against the boredom or AFK'ing. That and to compete against bots. People probably want to just increase hulk tanks as a reaction to all the hulk/miner killing recently But making it easier won't make it funner, also it's already extremely easy. Yea I can kind of understand that, but at the same time that's decreasing the amount of miners, increasing ISK/hour of mining ever so slightly, so miners that aren't idiots and don't mine where gankers are start to make more money 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 680	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:12:00 - [5] - Quote I am acutally one of the ones on the other side of the fence and want to make it alot harder. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Velicitia Open Designs 240	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:18:00 - [6] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: I am acutally one of the ones on the other side of the fence and want to make it alot harder. ^this. Way I see it is -- in general, the miners are in the "this is like every other MMO" crowd, and don't quite get a few things: 1. They're selling to other players 2. The market can only soak up so much Trit (or Mex, or Pyer, etc). 3. Every other miner/botter has an adverse affect on their ISK/hour ratio So, they think -- hey, if I could mine 10 or 20 or 30% more per hour, I could sell another n-million units of Trit (or Mex or Pyer) and make bank. While they're thinking this, they're completely neglecting to account for the other few thousand miners who will all get the same bonuses they will. Granted, I'm getting a little pissed off at the price hikes of the past month or so.
Eladanus Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:20:00 - [7] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: Eladanus wrote: I guess people want to make it easier so that it balances out against the boredom or AFK'ing. That and to compete against bots. People probably want to just increase hulk tanks as a reaction to all the hulk/miner killing recently But making it easier won't make it funner, also it's already extremely easy. No but making it easy (more profitable) makes up for the fact its boring as hell. Theres no way to make it more fun, not without making a whole little mini-game out of it
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 406	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:22:00 - [8] - Quote Eladanus wrote: 1-Up Mushroom wrote: Eladanus wrote: I guess people want to make it easier so that it balances out against the boredom or AFK'ing. That and to compete against bots. People probably want to just increase hulk tanks as a reaction to all the hulk/miner killing recently But making it easier won't make it funner, also it's already extremely easy. No but making it harder (more profitable) makes up for the fact its boring as hell. Theres no way to make it more fun, not without making a whole little mini-game out of it Fixed 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Skydell Space Mermaids 21	Posted - 2011.12.24 21:28:00 - [9] - Quote Full Officer fit CNR's get ganked in hi-sec. You can't tank a hulk enough to stop a gank. You can however make it harder to farm them. You see it as 'making it easier to mine'. The miner sees it as 'making it harder to farm him'. It's all about perspective.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 158	Posted - 2011.12.24 22:39:00 - [10] - Quote Skydell wrote: Full Officer fit CNR's get ganked in hi-sec. You can't tank a hulk enough to stop a gank. You can however make it harder to farm them. You see it as 'making it easier to mine'. The miner sees it as 'making it harder to farm him'. It's all about perspective. Well yes you can gank 500k ehp ship if its worth it.. People shooting exhumers for fun.. Difference. Anyway mining harder or easier.. its not an question Mining interesting on the other hand.. I heard something about comets etc. which would be interesting. Not that i would actually start to mine anytime soon.. got mining lvl I since i was born with that skill
Jask Avan Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2011.12.24 23:57:00 - [11] - Quote Make mining easier, and prices drop a little. Make mining harder, and you just drive the players away while the bots adjust as it's boring and annoying. The only way you'll get people mining is to break bots and nerf refining/ drone drops.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 204	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:07:00 - [12] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: I see all these threads about people trying to make mining more of a passive isk maker and increasing hulk tanks and bigger and better ships to make mining easier. What they really should do is make mining harder, make it so less people do it, so then mineral prices rise, causing it to be more profitable. That would work. Except that mining only sets the prices of Trit (maybe Py) and then only because it's a not really worth it to move it from the drone regions to hisec for sale. Mining doesn't produce the bulk of the more expensive minerals (not sure on how much trit is mined vs gunmined).
Arklan1 Dunedain Rangers WUT ALLIANCE 9	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:11:00 - [13] - Quote the supply of minerals doesn't come mostly from mining (it's reprocessed mission/drone loot) for starters, so the effect of changes to mining itself is a more complex disucssion... but, in my view, any changes need to be two fold in effect: up the "play" and down the ease of botting. course, EVERYTHING should be thus... or, if you can't make mining actually interesting, then make the extracting part completely passive, and let us just haul the stuff from our "mining platform" or whatever. course then it's just PI, but in mining belts, isn't it? blah.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 681	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:24:00 - [14] - Quote Step 1 Make System wide belts Step 2 Make asteriod ambigously unknown Step 3 Add several dozen new grades of each asteriod. Step 4 few of the included grades are 'worthless' with lower than normal refine rates and 'dangerous' vareity of rocks that react very badly when mined. Step 5 sit back and watch the miners complain they have to think on mining. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Merovee Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor 6	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:31:00 - [15] - Quote Bigger rats, these mosquitoes they keep sending, I no long longer blow up, I just turn on the shields and they keep buzzing around my head. What would be nice is a mining drone redo. new models and hold more ore. Maybe they should look like bubble bees since they no longer land on the roids.
Atticus Fynch 56	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:36:00 - [16] - Quote Mining is fine as is. Miners are already at a disadvantage with can flippers, gankers and the sport for the phallically challenged...Hulkaggedon. Please help someone with a school paper by taking this quick survey on the topic of color and emotions. http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/fYNnl41/A-University-Study-Does-Color-Affect-Emotion-A-2-Part-Study-2-of-2?view_quiz=1 Thank You.
MadMuppet Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:37:00 - [17] - Quote I would like mining to be something more complicated so that the bots get screwed up. I would like it to be more interesting so that I don't fall asleep at the keyboard. With ships like the new BCs, a mining ship stands little to no chance or survival. Being in a fleet doesn't matter when they have a one-shot wonder gun. WIth that I would like to see some materials ONLY be available via mining so that it would be viable. Right now I just mine for beer and ammo. Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok?
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions Caldari State 207	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:39:00 - [18] - Quote The mining yield should be a direct result in the amount of effort put into mining. Also please remove the reprocessing skill. Flight of a Thousand Rifters: A Player Event
OmegaZeda Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:46:00 - [19] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: Step 1 Make System wide belts Step 2 Make asteriod ambigously unknown Step 3 Add several dozen new grades of each asteriod. Step 4 few of the included grades are 'worthless' with lower than normal refine rates and 'dangerous' vareity of rocks that react very badly when mined. Step 5 sit back and watch the miners complain they have to think on mining. This actually sounds like a number of good ideas. Make mining more interaction based would also force out the majority of bots as well. I'd take it a step further. You would have to scan the asteroids and use something like the Planetary Interaction interface where you would have to manually lock the strip miners onto a mineral deposit. The richer the deposit the more can be mined. Maybe even introduce some sort of purity scale where some deposits require less refining to bring the material up to manufacturing grade. I've not really touched anything industrial in over a year but if they made it somewhat entertaining rather than a headache and chore I'd at least consider doing it again in my spare time.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:59:00 - [20] - Quote I asked for massively increasing hull HP in responce to the ganking going on. What is the issue with that? You cant tank anything decent with a hull repper.
Jenshae Chiroptera 291	Posted - 2011.12.25 01:04:00 - [21] - Quote I don't want to make it easier. If they are war decc'ed or can flipped and scrambled, they are going to die. I just want them to live long enough for any alliance or corp members in the area to have a chance to respond and defend their friends and assets. That could and probably would lead to more PVP from escalation. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Baljos Arnjak Dark Praetorian Order 5	Posted - 2011.12.25 02:39:00 - [22] - Quote Well, I think the real question is: What part of mining do we want the majority of effort to be concentrated? The actual act of mining the asteroid, or finding the good stuff and logistics. If the former, then I think mining needs to be totally reworked so that actual player skill comes into play a lot more than it does now. Maybe something like Asteroids in 3D. The miner goes to an asteroid they want to mine, then switch to mining control mode where they have first-person control of the mining lasers. They shoot the asteroid until it breaks apart into medium size chunks, then they shoot those into smaller size chunks, then the smaller chunks turn into ore in the cargo hold. The trick would be to get the chunks before they get out of range. Just a very quick and not all that thought out idea. If we want the prospecting/logistics to be where the effort is then we should go with a more passive system where the skill of mining comes from being able to find the good ore. Then once it's found, the miner places and configures a small structure at a belt and that does the mining for you. All you'd have to do is haul the ore when the structure fills up. The number of structures per player would have to be limited so as to prevent them from becoming like GSC's are now. Since the actual effort goes into finding the ore, we would need a new prospecting skill and module. The module could work like a combination of the on-board scanner and a probe launcher. You jump into a system, run the prospector scan to see what's in system and what approximate quantities/concentrations, then if the system has what you want, launch a prospector probe or three and get to the business of pinning it down. This should work a bit different than normal anomaly scanning, maybe more automated or something just so that we don't have to probe down every asteroid we want to mine. Couple of things about the passive method though. 1) As Nova suggested earlier, it would be necessary to add in a good number of new types of ore beyond what we have now because prospecting for something that's easy to find is a waste of time. And with only 16 main types of ore, prospecting wouldn't have enough variation to be interesting. 2) This might have a favorable impact on botting because the advantage bots have is negated when everyone can mine 23.5/7 and are limited to a certain number platforms.
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 70	Posted - 2011.12.25 02:52:00 - [23] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: I see all these threads about people trying to make mining more of a passive isk maker and increasing hulk tanks and bigger and better ships to make mining easier. What they really should do is make mining harder, make it so less people do it, so then mineral prices rise, causing it to be more profitable. People who don't understand economics, or video games, want to make mining easier. Your solution also does not work. The best way to buff mining is to get rid of the meta 0-2 drops from level 3 and 4 missions, and to NOT replace them with anything.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 682	Posted - 2011.12.25 06:25:00 - [24] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: Mining is fine as is. Miners are already at a disadvantage with can flippers, gankers and the sport for the phallically challenged...Hulkaggedon. I hearby disagree. They are at a disadvantage against all the miners with guns. AKA mission runners and belt sweepers. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Valei Khurelem House Khurelem 26	Posted - 2011.12.25 06:40:00 - [25] - Quote If we had skills to train up that reduced the amount of time it took to complete a mining cycle then mining wouldn't be as painful. However, CCP and every other MMORPG company seem to think that in order to make an MMORPG you have to make every single task as boring and tedious as possible so people stay subscribed for longer. Also, if you had a mining focused character because you found mission running even more tedious like I do, you wouldn't have needed to post in this thread or create it, or even argue the point, because you'd know how boring it was already.
Joshua Aivoras Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus 63	Posted - 2011.12.25 06:58:00 - [26] - Quote I'd say the general consensus was that mining wasn't fun, not that it needed to be easier.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 204	Posted - 2011.12.25 07:43:00 - [27] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: If we had skills to train up that reduced the amount of time it took to complete a mining cycle then mining wouldn't be as painful. However, CCP and every other MMORPG company seem to think that in order to make an MMORPG you have to make every single task as boring and tedious as possible so people stay subscribed for longer. Also, if you had a mining focused character because you found mission running even more tedious like I do, you wouldn't have needed to post in this thread or create it, or even argue the point, because you'd know how boring it was already. You're asking for increased yield. Won't happen because it won't increase income, just depress prices.
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 80	Posted - 2011.12.25 07:45:00 - [28] - Quote I want an increased cargo bay that is all.
Riley Moore Sentinum Research 171	Posted - 2011.12.25 07:47:00 - [29] - Quote rodyas wrote: I want an increased cargo bay that is all. This please. Hulk cargo x 50, but modified so it can only carry raw ore + crystals. Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1090	Posted - 2011.12.25 07:49:00 - [30] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I don't want to make it easier. If they are war decc'ed or can flipped and scrambled, they are going to die. I just want them to live long enough for any alliance or corp members in the area to have a chance to respond and defend their friends and assets. That could and probably would lead to more PVP from escalation. This isn't necessary. Anybody who is actually playing the game while they are mining (as opposed to afk mining while watching ****) can stay aligned and warp out as soon as a ganker warps in. The problem is that miners have gotten used to being able to gather resources and make money while not actually playing the game...something no other "profession" in the game is able to do (without violating the ToS). The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

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