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Removing killmails would help fix pvp

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Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 5	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:15:00 - [1] - Quote Killmails are the biggest problem with EVE. If you're in corp A you must be on X number of killmails a month. We're fighting corp B, and we know they use Z fit, so you must fly ship B and use fit Y. Killmails ruin the PVP aspect of the game for many other people. Considering how many threads I have seen about removing killmails, I know that I am not alone in this regard. What other game do you play that gives more than just the name of character you killed, or even just basic stats like how many people you killed? What game, when you kill another character, tells you (regardless of whether you loot them or not) EXACTLY what they had equipped, how much damage they dealt, what buffs were affecting them, and (the ultimate bullshit) what was in their inventory? Removing killmails would actually promote PVP, as more people would be willing to go into a fight, even knowing they may lose. No one would need to worry about being humiliated for so-called "lolfits". No one could be excluded for not having enough kills. Killmails take a lot of the fun out of the game. If you want to know what your target has fitted or in cargo, use ship and cargo scanners before you kill them. Killmails are also a big reason that people gank. I won't argue that people gank for fun or profit, but people that do it just to pad their kill/lose ratio are just pathetic. Ganking is not PVP. Ganking is the equivalent of beating up the elderly (namely, a victim that can't fight back). Removing killmails won't stop people from ganking, but it may alter the reasons that they gank. Get rid of killmails, and bring make EVE more fun to play. Even though is my industry main, I do have PVP alts who have operated in low- and null-sec. Feel free to flame me for this, but it is my opinion, based in simple facts. Fly safe.
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 348	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:25:00 - [2] - Quote aahahahahahhahhahahhahahahahhahahhaha
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 166	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote I'm going to assume that you've never actually been involved in any kind of PVP or have ever been in a corp with a PVP focus. I'm assuming that because your level of ignorance is ******* astounding.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 622	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:28:00 - [4] - Quote stopped reading at "you need to get x number of KMs a month" try and undock and play the game at least one time before posting poo The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Mai Khumm Apple Construction Inc Northern Associates. 93	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:30:00 - [5] - Quote Not sure if dumb troll or ******... Make ICE deplete and re-spawn just like roids. That alone would stop botting. (It'll upset the goons, so that will NEVER happen)
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 5	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:32:00 - [6] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: I'm going to assume that you've never actually been involved in any kind of PVP or have ever been in a corp with a PVP focus. I'm assuming that because your level of ignorance is ******* astounding. Perhaps if you actually read my post (assuming you are even capable of reading), you would have seen that I already said I have done PVP. I have been on low-sec roams, null-sec fleet fights, null-sec roams, dabbled in wormholes, etc. I have tried nearly every aspect of EVE, and have discovered that nearly every null-sec corp requires that you be on X number of killmails per month or get kicked out. BTW, supporting the idea that you didn't actually read the OP, perhaps you could answer the question I posed in the second paragraph? If not, I will simply assume (probably correctly) that you are nothing more than the ignorant flaming forum troll that you appear to be. Have fun, and fly safe.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 103	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:33:00 - [7] - Quote Flame flame... uhh... flame. Killmails are dumb in some ways, such as the whole "free intel" aspect. They are good in other ways though, like being able to confirm that you're doing a job in a merc contract, or even just showing off how big your PvP epeen is. Killmails as they are now are a very central part of the game, becoming in some aspects more important than the PvP they track in some cases. OP is not crazy. Getting rid of KMs would remove a free intel tool that everyone in Eve takes for granted, and is not going to be a popular idea. It might turn out to be fun in the end, though.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 622	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:36:00 - [8] - Quote so what failfit were you flying that is the source of all this chaffed-ass? and can we get some feedback from your FC or were you booted from corp already? please post the km that shows us where the bad piwate touched you The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Elessa Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:41:00 - [9] - Quote I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I just wanted to draw your attention to something. You do realize that that you could've gotten flamed/trolled just as hard by going to any FPS forum and substituted KDR for KM and you wouldn't have exposed yourself to the inevitable hunting/ganking that will now happen to this character of yours. Are you asking to get hammered everytime you undock? Cause it really seems like it.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 103	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:43:00 - [10] - Quote Elessa Enaka wrote: I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I just wanted to draw your attention to something. You do realize that that you could've gotten flamed/trolled just as hard by going to any FPS forum and substituted KDR for KM and you wouldn't have exposed yourself to the inevitable hunting/ganking that will now happen to this character of yours. Are you asking to get hammered everytime you undock? Cause it really seems like it. That actually sounds pretty fun, and for that reason I'm glad to support OP.
Xolve Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 329	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:43:00 - [11] - Quote Free Intel Aside - Killmails are important for corps to monitor activity levels. Any high-end guild in any other MMO keeps track of how often their players show up. Most keep parses of how well they actually perform. KM's also promote competitiveness within corps and alliances to be the best/most active/ whathaveyou. Killmails aren't ruining the game, people that are afraid to learn how to PvP or are completely risk averse are ruining the game. Its PvP nobody started out amazing, everyone learned, everyone has a few wtf-fits in their losses. Trial and Error. PvP should be fun, it should be challenging, and it should be (at times) rewarding, even if its just bragging rights. ...probably bad posting
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 167	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:47:00 - [12] - Quote Armored Phoenix wrote: Whine You seem to have misunderstood me. I don't believe that you have any PVP characters or have been on any end of PVP other than having your mining barges ganked. If you had actually been part of any kind of PVP corp or ever actually played the game at all you wouldn't have made such a stupid thread.
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 8	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:49:00 - [13] - Quote Elessa Enaka wrote: I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I just wanted to draw your attention to something. You do realize that that you could've gotten flamed/trolled just as hard by going to any FPS forum and substituted KDR for KM and you wouldn't have exposed yourself to the inevitable hunting/ganking that will now happen to this character of yours. Are you asking to get hammered everytime you undock? Cause it really seems like it. Edited the OP to mention my difference of opinion regarding killmail versus K/D ratio. If people wish to attempt to gank me whenever I undock, they are (and always have been) free to do so. That is part of the game, after all. However, just because this is an industry character does not mean that I am unwilling or unable to fight back. I simply choose my battles wisely, as any good tactician does. When I choose to fight, I make every effort to have as much intel about my enemy as possible. I also try to make sure that the conditions of the battle are in my favor. Having studied warfare and conflict for the majority of my life, I have a very good grasp of both basic and advanced tactics and strategies as they apply to a wide variety of battlefields (land, sea, and aerospace). Thank you for the reminder that there is a difference between K/D ratio and killmail intel. Have fun and fly safe.
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:50:00 - [14] - Quote Armored Phoenix wrote: Ganking is the equivalent of beating up the elderly (namely, a victim that can't fight back). Excuse me but how I spend my leisure time is my business. Besides, stealing their walkers is not really beating them up...
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 5	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:52:00 - [15] - Quote the very first alliance I have found, and joined, do not have any kind of quotas regarding killmails. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun
Ris Dnalor Fleet of Doom Ushra'Khan 123	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:56:00 - [16] - Quote There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 8	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:56:00 - [17] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Armored Phoenix wrote: Whine You seem to have misunderstood me. I don't believe that you have any PVP characters or have been on any end of PVP other than having your mining barges ganked. If you had actually been part of any kind of PVP corp or ever actually played the game at all you wouldn't have made such a stupid thread. Point of Note: The corporation The Program (PGM) requires that you be on 3 killmails a month. I was a member of this corporation for some time, until I was forced to suspend my account (due to RL financial reasons) for a number of months. Perhaps if you actually provided actual information to counter the points I made in the OP, instead of trolling, I may be more inclined to consider your opinion as valid. Have fun and fly safe.
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 9	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:01:00 - [18] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: the very first alliance I have found, and joined, do not have any kind of quotas regarding killmails. Perhaps you could be so kind as to send me an in-game mail with that information. I have been looking for a PVP corp (for my alt) with less strict requirements regarding killmails per month, CTAs, etc. I am a casual player, and don't always have the inclination to log on. I don't like corps that try to dictate to me when I have to log on, what ships and fits I can use, and so on. Any information regarding null-sec corps that may better suit my playstyle is appreciated. Anyone who wishes to provide me with information about corps that may fit my criteria better are asked to send the information to me via in-game mail. Thank you, have fun, and fly safe.
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 9	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:04:00 - [19] - Quote Doc Severide wrote: Armored Phoenix wrote: Ganking is the equivalent of beating up the elderly (namely, a victim that can't fight back). Excuse me but how I spend my leisure time is my business. Besides, stealing their walkers is not really beating them up... lol, thank you for the humor. At least in EVE, it is valid gameplay. Besides, stealing their walkers prevents them from making it to their car...
Armored Phoenix Phoenix Stellar Mining Industries 9	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:07:00 - [20] - Quote Ris Dnalor wrote: Morganta wrote: so what failfit were you flying that is the source of all this chaffed-ass? and can we get some feedback from your FC or were you booted from corp already? please post the km that shows us where the bad piwate touched you BattleClinic Eve-Kill few losses, no kills. This smells like an alt :) As stated in the OP, this is my industry main, so of course I don't have a lot of kills or losses. Try checking the character's date of birth (2008) and reconsider your statement.
Ris Dnalor Fleet of Doom Ushra'Khan 123	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:32:00 - [21] - Quote Armored Phoenix wrote: Ris Dnalor wrote: Morganta wrote: so what failfit were you flying that is the source of all this chaffed-ass? and can we get some feedback from your FC or were you booted from corp already? please post the km that shows us where the bad piwate touched you BattleClinic Eve-Kill few losses, no kills. This smells like an alt :) As stated in the OP, this is my industry main, so of course I don't have a lot of kills or losses. Try checking the character's date of birth (2008) and reconsider your statement. my alts were born in 2003 and 2004, what does DOB have to do with alts? I suppose I could say that I have a research main, an industrial main, a sub-cap pvp main, and a cap-pvp main, and a cyno-main.... but the reality is they are alts, except ris, which is the main. In any case that's what I meant by alt. I shall modify the statement thusly: "I smell an industrial character"
J Kunjeh 126	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:40:00 - [22] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: Killmails are dumb in some ways, such as the whole "free intel" aspect. They are good in other ways though, like being able to confirm that you're doing a job in a merc contract, or even just showing off how big your PvP epeen is. Killmails as they are now are a very central part of the game, becoming in some aspects more important than the PvP they track in some cases. OP is not crazy. Getting rid of KMs would remove a free intel tool that everyone in Eve takes for granted, and is not going to be a popular idea. It might turn out to be fun in the end, though. I can definitely see both sides of this argument and I empathize with both views. It would be a tough call, but I think I would lean towards keeping them, but with less intel (somehow). "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á
Ispai Ponue Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:51:00 - [23] - Quote Armored Phoenix wrote: Ganking is the equivalent of beating up the elderly (namely, a victim that can't fight back) People that can't differentiate between computer games and real life are ******* scary and probably shouldn't be allowed to participate in either. I was going to say I somewhat agree with your post, but this gem just makes me want to run away as fast and as far as possible.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 167	Posted - 2011.12.28 00:51:00 - [24] - Quote there are exactly two different kind of people KM whores and those who dont give a ****. well and than there is me I watch killboards to keep track of some people what they flying / losing their fitings etc. Just the observer.
Ispai Ponue Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:05:00 - [25] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: Flame flame... uhh... flame. Killmails are dumb in some ways, such as the whole "free intel" aspect. They are good in other ways though, like being able to confirm that you're doing a job in a merc contract, or even just showing off how big your PvP epeen is. Killmails as they are now are a very central part of the game, becoming in some aspects more important than the PvP they track in some cases. OP is not crazy. Getting rid of KMs would remove a free intel tool that everyone in Eve takes for granted, and is not going to be a popular idea. It might turn out to be fun in the end, though. You wouldn't need all the information you get in a KM to prove your worth as a merc. You can prove efficiency with loss/kill ratio only for the most part. Mostly though, you'd be trying for testimonials and word of mouth. Become a feared member of the merc community and you don't need any stupid killboard to prove yourself. Frankly, a KB says nothing about whether you honor your contracts, etc...so I personally wouldn't hire a merc on that info only. The important aspect, that which the OP is actually bitching about (checking that your PvP employees are PvPing and not failfitting) could be impremented with the current system but by limiting access to fit information to yourself and employers. Even if only self, an alliance could continue monitoring its members through the API, which has become pretty powerful for providing exactly what information is needed and to whom. At any rate, I do agree that the KM system is a bit flawed and takes away from the game by forcing everyone to be worried about harming some stupid statistic. I'd like to let my corp members be as stupid as they want on their own time, but because it effects the KB, and because ****** KB stats limit my ability to recruit and join alliances, I can't.
Podcorn Republic Military School 0	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:12:00 - [26] - Quote There is also a point about PVP(ers) becoming obsessed over killmails. It's idiotic and some people don't enjoy talking about it all the time. It also promotes blobbing / ganking / neutral alts less solo PVP. Taking a billion ISK worth of ships to fly into low sec in an effort to blow up for fun looks less fun when people realize the next day that the billion ISK loss will show up on their killboard, and still be there in 1-2-10 years when they may want to join a fancy ass PVP corp / something they'll need to explain forever. They do discourage PVP.
Skydell Space Mermaids 28	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:15:00 - [27] - Quote Ispai Ponue wrote: Armored Phoenix wrote: Ganking is the equivalent of beating up the elderly (namely, a victim that can't fight back) People that can't differentiate between computer games and real life are ******* scary and probably shouldn't be allowed to participate in either. I was going to say I somewhat agree with your post, but this gem just makes me want to run away as fast and as far as possible. It's called an analogy. Not seeing that makes you scary.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 623	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:21:00 - [28] - Quote Podcorn wrote: There is also a point about PVP(ers) becoming obsessed over killmails. It's idiotic and some people don't enjoy talking about it all the time. It also promotes blobbing / ganking / neutral alts less solo PVP. Taking a billion ISK worth of ships to fly into low sec in an effort to blow up for fun looks less fun when people realize the next day that the billion ISK loss will show up on their killboard, and still be there in 1-2-10 years when they may want to join a fancy ass PVP corp / something they'll need to explain forever. They do discourage PVP. they encourage smart pvp I love my killmails, I'll even call people out on their fits from time to time, but does it really matter? nope. point being fly correct fits, they are not hard to find and if your corp is worth half a ** they will have approved fitting guidelines that you should be following. if not you deserve every ounce of the ** you get and FTR there are games that track all stats (loot usually is not something in those games however) The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Cipher Jones 199	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:22:00 - [29] - Quote 1. Combat log. Its mine. It is not effortless to kill you. I earned it, I deserve it. If I choose to share that intel with the internet for free that is my and the internets business. 2. Killboards. They were broken, IMHO, for listing POS modules and other inanimate objects. They fixed that, and now keep track of implants. 3. Forced PvP. If your corp forces you to do PvP that you don't want to do, you are a ******* leech. Don't join a PvP corp for the sake of being in a PvP corp, join one for shooting motherfuckers. 4. Intel. Between local and evewho as intel tools you can be an intel pro in any sector of space. Your only excuse is that you are lazy. There is no reason to want intel on YOUR enemy. If I am trying to kill you, you need intel on me. Those are the tools that help you get the killmail that have nothing to do with killmails, and they are lethal. Cry about them while you are trying to kill PvP moar. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
OmegaZeda Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans 3	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:29:00 - [30] - Quote And at the end of the day the overwhelming majority wants more kill mails and more from them. Proof of this fact is the addition of implants to pod kill mails. I do agree with the anti-ganking. Ganking isn't PVP; It's clubbing baby seals.

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