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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:05:28 -
[1] - Quote
Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected.
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.
To implement this i propose two changes:
First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated.
Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in:
1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable
Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.
I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal.
CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5293
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:19:27 -
[2] - Quote
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2686
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:22:01 -
[3] - Quote
post your lossmail
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:24:02 -
[4] - Quote
Querns wrote:post your lossmail
Check my corporation.... I take gank loot, I dont lose it. Dont believe me, see my many videos on twitch: www.twitch.tv/agsperry/ |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3572
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:25:37 -
[5] - Quote
All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:27:53 -
[6] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced.
No developer gets it right the first time. Thats why all major games come with patches. Its called reactive development. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5293
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:28:32 -
[7] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced.
This is one of the outright removal threads, not one of the begging for nerfs threads.
I'm guessing he lost a jump freighter or something to the latest burn jita. |
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:31:44 -
[8] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. This is one of the outright removal threads, not one of the begging for nerfs threads. I'm guessing he lost a jump freighter or something to the latest burn jita.
.... says a goonswarm career ganker! |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
105
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:35:35 -
[9] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5293
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:38:27 -
[10] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:
.... says a goonswarm career ganker!
Prove it.
Orca Platypus wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt.
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Asika Koraka
Dragon Factory
1
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:41:42 -
[11] - Quote
i only agree if offending player not repeately biomass alpha clone or start new one to continue ganking since you can get around 300 dps catalyst on alpha clone .
disabling the safety system change to red for alpha clones is very bad idea if alpha cloe lives in lwosec and want kill pods. so no for this change. there is other way
to let you know the bad idea could be also by making stargates denying people wwith -10 security status - dont do it the workaround is very easy.
when you gank people in i.e jita your system local security status also drops and once you reach -10 security status you cannot dock to station that you were ganking near. even worse station guns will now keep you ECM jammed so they render you useless as camper,you have to warp out then warp in and do your work. whats else? make concord static spawns near gates stations and asteroid belts to make ganking harder and requiring you to have eoungh forces. and no the exsisting concord spawns will not increase there could be only 5 frigate 5 cruiser 5 battleships and no more no less, no further extra spawns so you could gank that skiff with 40 talos and outnumber concord agression well when your 40man talos fleet gets criminal flag their warp drive is fully disabled they cant warp cloak jump or any other stuff and group will die slowly acccording to how fast concord destroy your group members and before entire group is defeated by concord your target would be dead aswell.
autopilot should be fully disabled in 0.5 systems and lower, you could activate it on your own risk this but there could be three-warning system before activating autopilot in 0.5 and systems bwlow. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3170
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:44:58 -
[12] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals?
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:47:43 -
[13] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals?
Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. |
Locko DeLavida
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:53:43 -
[14] - Quote
Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3170
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:55:33 -
[15] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. They wouldn't be criminals then now would they?
If CCP is going to build a complicated CrimeWatch mechanic, complete with security status and sliding penalties for repeat offenders, how does it make sense to just lock outlaws out of highsec?
While the Tags4Sec systems was a nice addition to help players outsource the security status grind, it really isn't suppose to be an ongoing cost to deter highsec aggression. If your want to deter highsec aggression by increasing the cost, just do it directly by shortening the CONCORD response or buffing the HP of industrial ships.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
350
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:56:12 -
[16] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. And given how fun it is to rat, and how expensive it is to buy tags, why should they? Why do you feel that ganking needs a nerf? Just ganking one player costs you aroudn 26mil to get back to 0, that plus the cost of a T2 catalyst means that you'll be breaking even in terms of ISK destroyed/lost, which isn't terribly fun.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:00:42 -
[17] - Quote
Locko DeLavida wrote:Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice
Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! |
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:02:14 -
[18] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. They wouldn't be criminals then now would they? If CCP is going to build a complicated CrimeWatch mechanic, complete with security status and sliding penalties for repeat offenders, how does it make sense to just lock outlaws out of highsec? While the Tags4Sec systems was a nice addition to help players outsource the security status grind, it really isn't suppose to be an ongoing cost to deter highsec aggression. If your want to deter highsec aggression by increasing the cost, just do it directly by shortening the CONCORD response or buffing the HP of industrial ships.
Go be criminals in low and nullsec if you dont want to repair your security status. You can still be a criminal, just not a career criminal in highsec without putting in some game time and effort. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5293
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 22:02:14 -
[19] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Locko DeLavida wrote:Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy!
So why should one person who isn't at their keyboard have nothing to fear from an organised group of twenty? |
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:05:56 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:Locko DeLavida wrote:Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! So why should one person who isn't at their keyboard have nothing to fear from an organised group of twenty?
Nothing to fear... Gank all you want! Just make sure you dont get on CONCORDS bad side to often without giving back to them. Why should CONCORD be so nice to you career highsec gankers. |
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5294
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 22:09:33 -
[21] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:
Nothing to fear... Gank all you want! Just make sure you dont get on CONCORDS bad side to often without giving back to them. Why should CONCORD be so nice to you career highsec gankers.
Why should the be so nice to you that hauling 20bil around in a completely untanked badger becomes a risk free activity?
You say eve should not be easy. Please explain why you are saying that while asking for eve to be made much, much easier. |
Dolorous Tremmens
Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation
203
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:10:52 -
[22] - Quote
*Ahem* Falcon punch
CCP Falcon:
"Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
:)"
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5988
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 22:14:01 -
[23] - Quote
No.
The Mutuality of Freighter Ganking
Ganking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act.
First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing.
Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this.
Maybe you should stop making requests like this.
Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is ****** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group.
As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not.
No, this is idea is **** from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '****' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5988
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:15:33 -
[24] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt.
You are a liar. Ganking has gotten progressively more difficult. Did you know you could collect insurance on your gank ship and people used to use battleships?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5988
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:17:03 -
[25] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.
If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys.
Then they are not criminals.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5988
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:18:29 -
[26] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Locko DeLavida wrote:Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy!
Those getting ganked were being stupid. Being stupid should never be fun or without consequences.
And yes, there are two sides and yet you are only paying attention to one side.
Edit:
And it is debatable that the freighter pilot has put in more time gathering his cargo. How long does it take to buy a few billion ISK of stuff? A few minutes. Probably less than 30 minutes. But lets say an hour.
Now, how much time is invested in the gank. Let me see, there is the guy who has been sitting on the undock scanning stuff. How long has he been waiting for a target to undock? Then there is the bumping ship. How long has he been waiting? Then there is the fleet itself. Granted, they might have sent out a ping and it formed in a fairly short time, but still it could take say 20-30 minutes. And there might be say, 25 guys in fleet. So when we start adding up all that time it is far from clear who has more time invested. One scrub or the 25-30 guys who are going to gank his scrub ass for being a dope.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:30:13 -
[27] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:*Ahem* Falcon punch
CCP Falcon:
"Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
:)"
Actually, CONCORD looks like little fouls who can never catch their target. CONCORD is chasing these guys regardless of what others are doing because of their security status. They just need to do their jobs better. Has nothing to do with anyone else. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
547
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 22:32:03 -
[28] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected.
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.
To implement this i propose two changes:
First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated.
Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in:
1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable
Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.
I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal.
This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective.
CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.
It amuses me to no end that even in a time of invulnerable police fleets calmly destroying your ship for every transgression, there are people who think that's not enough. I guess if someone ever writes a parody about this, it will inevitably end with CONCORD just automatically biomassing a ganker and transfering everything he owned to his victim. Of course his victim will get everything he lost restored, too.
And at the very end the one who demanded this last change to destroy ganking accidentally opens fire on a pirate-owned structure in one of his missions, leading to him losing his 100-billion blinged pirate battleship to CONCORD, losing his character and everything he owned gets transferred to some now very confused player on the other side of New Eden.*
*Based on an actual bug I experienced. |
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 22:33:12 -
[29] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:No. The Mutuality of Freighter GankingGanking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act. First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing. Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this. Maybe you should stop making requests like this. Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is ****** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group. As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not. No, this is idea is **** from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '****' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier.
This is complete BS... all it takes to stop a freighter in its tracks is one mach bumper... nothing else! and you cant get away from it by logging or anything else if they also target you. Then the gank teams shows up when they can and you go down. This happens every 15min 24hours a day out of Jita V - Moon 17 station (goons). |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27789
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 22:34:14 -
[30] - Quote
For the OP, chasing down those with low security status is the job of the Faction Police; Concord are the tactical team that only come out to play when capsuleers shoot each other in the face without the necessary flags.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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