EVE Search - High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 47 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:05:28 - [1] - Quote Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5293	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:19:27 - [2] - Quote
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2686	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:22:01 - [3] - Quote post your lossmail This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:24:02 - [4] - Quote Querns wrote: post your lossmail Check my corporation.... I take gank loot, I dont lose it. Dont believe me, see my many videos on twitch: www.twitch.tv/agsperry/
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3572	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:25:37 - [5] - Quote All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:27:53 - [6] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. No developer gets it right the first time. Thats why all major games come with patches. Its called reactive development.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5293	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:28:32 - [7] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. This is one of the outright removal threads, not one of the begging for nerfs threads. I'm guessing he lost a jump freighter or something to the latest burn jita.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:31:44 - [8] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. This is one of the outright removal threads, not one of the begging for nerfs threads. I'm guessing he lost a jump freighter or something to the latest burn jita. .... says a goonswarm career ganker!
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:35:35 - [9] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5293	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:38:27 - [10] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: .... says a goonswarm career ganker! Prove it. Orca Platypus wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt.

Asika Koraka Dragon Factory 1	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:41:42 - [11] - Quote i only agree if offending player not repeately biomass alpha clone or start new one to continue ganking since you can get around 300 dps catalyst on alpha clone . disabling the safety system change to red for alpha clones is very bad idea if alpha cloe lives in lwosec and want kill pods. so no for this change. there is other way to let you know the bad idea could be also by making stargates denying people wwith -10 security status - dont do it the workaround is very easy. when you gank people in i.e jita your system local security status also drops and once you reach -10 security status you cannot dock to station that you were ganking near. even worse station guns will now keep you ECM jammed so they render you useless as camper,you have to warp out then warp in and do your work. whats else? make concord static spawns near gates stations and asteroid belts to make ganking harder and requiring you to have eoungh forces. and no the exsisting concord spawns will not increase there could be only 5 frigate 5 cruiser 5 battleships and no more no less, no further extra spawns so you could gank that skiff with 40 talos and outnumber concord agression well when your 40man talos fleet gets criminal flag their warp drive is fully disabled they cant warp cloak jump or any other stuff and group will die slowly acccording to how fast concord destroy your group members and before entire group is defeated by concord your target would be dead aswell. autopilot should be fully disabled in 0.5 systems and lower, you could activate it on your own risk this but there could be three-warning system before activating autopilot in 0.5 and systems bwlow.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3170	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:44:58 - [12] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:47:43 - [13] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys.
Locko DeLavida Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:53:43 - [14] - Quote Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3170	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:55:33 - [15] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. They wouldn't be criminals then now would they? If CCP is going to build a complicated CrimeWatch mechanic, complete with security status and sliding penalties for repeat offenders, how does it make sense to just lock outlaws out of highsec? While the Tags4Sec systems was a nice addition to help players outsource the security status grind, it really isn't suppose to be an ongoing cost to deter highsec aggression. If your want to deter highsec aggression by increasing the cost, just do it directly by shortening the CONCORD response or buffing the HP of industrial ships. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 350	Posted - 2017.02.25 21:56:12 - [16] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. And given how fun it is to rat, and how expensive it is to buy tags, why should they? Why do you feel that ganking needs a nerf? Just ganking one player costs you aroudn 26mil to get back to 0, that plus the cost of a T2 catalyst means that you'll be breaking even in terms of ISK destroyed/lost, which isn't terribly fun. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:00:42 - [17] - Quote Locko DeLavida wrote: Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:02:14 - [18] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. They wouldn't be criminals then now would they? If CCP is going to build a complicated CrimeWatch mechanic, complete with security status and sliding penalties for repeat offenders, how does it make sense to just lock outlaws out of highsec? While the Tags4Sec systems was a nice addition to help players outsource the security status grind, it really isn't suppose to be an ongoing cost to deter highsec aggression. If your want to deter highsec aggression by increasing the cost, just do it directly by shortening the CONCORD response or buffing the HP of industrial ships. Go be criminals in low and nullsec if you dont want to repair your security status. You can still be a criminal, just not a career criminal in highsec without putting in some game time and effort.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5293	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:02:14 - [19] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Locko DeLavida wrote: Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! So why should one person who isn't at their keyboard have nothing to fear from an organised group of twenty?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:05:56 - [20] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Locko DeLavida wrote: Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! So why should one person who isn't at their keyboard have nothing to fear from an organised group of twenty? Nothing to fear... Gank all you want! Just make sure you dont get on CONCORDS bad side to often without giving back to them. Why should CONCORD be so nice to you career highsec gankers.

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5294	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:09:33 - [21] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Nothing to fear... Gank all you want! Just make sure you dont get on CONCORDS bad side to often without giving back to them. Why should CONCORD be so nice to you career highsec gankers. Why should the be so nice to you that hauling 20bil around in a completely untanked badger becomes a risk free activity? You say eve should not be easy. Please explain why you are saying that while asking for eve to be made much, much easier.
Dolorous Tremmens Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation 203	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:10:52 - [22] - Quote Ahem Falcon punch CCP Falcon: "Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. :)" Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5988	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:14:01 - [23] - Quote No. The Mutuality of Freighter Ganking Ganking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act. First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing. Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this. Maybe you should stop making requests like this. Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is **** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group. As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not. No, this is idea is from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '**' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5988	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:15:33 - [24] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: All together now, just one more nerf and it will be balanced. You mean at least one nerf. All we've seen for years now are buffs, buffs, and more buffs, until the hardest part of ganking became logging in your alpha clone gank alt. You are a liar. Ganking has gotten progressively more difficult. Did you know you could collect insurance on your gank ship and people used to use battleships? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5988	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:17:03 - [25] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. Then they are not criminals. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5988	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:18:29 - [26] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Locko DeLavida wrote: Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! Those getting ganked were being stupid. Being stupid should never be fun or without consequences. And yes, there are two sides and yet you are only paying attention to one side. Edit: And it is debatable that the freighter pilot has put in more time gathering his cargo. How long does it take to buy a few billion ISK of stuff? A few minutes. Probably less than 30 minutes. But lets say an hour. Now, how much time is invested in the gank. Let me see, there is the guy who has been sitting on the undock scanning stuff. How long has he been waiting for a target to undock? Then there is the bumping ship. How long has he been waiting? Then there is the fleet itself. Granted, they might have sent out a ping and it formed in a fairly short time, but still it could take say 20-30 minutes. And there might be say, 25 guys in fleet. So when we start adding up all that time it is far from clear who has more time invested. One scrub or the 25-30 guys who are going to gank his scrub ass for being a dope. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:30:13 - [27] - Quote Dolorous Tremmens wrote: Ahem Falcon punch CCP Falcon: "Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. :)" Actually, CONCORD looks like little fouls who can never catch their target. CONCORD is chasing these guys regardless of what others are doing because of their security status. They just need to do their jobs better. Has nothing to do with anyone else.
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 547	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:32:03 - [28] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. It amuses me to no end that even in a time of invulnerable police fleets calmly destroying your ship for every transgression, there are people who think that's not enough. I guess if someone ever writes a parody about this, it will inevitably end with CONCORD just automatically biomassing a ganker and transfering everything he owned to his victim. Of course his victim will get everything he lost restored, too. And at the very end the one who demanded this last change to destroy ganking accidentally opens fire on a pirate-owned structure in one of his missions, leading to him losing his 100-billion blinged pirate battleship to CONCORD, losing his character and everything he owned gets transferred to some now very confused player on the other side of New Eden.* *Based on an actual bug I experienced.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:33:12 - [29] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: No. The Mutuality of Freighter Ganking Ganking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act. First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing. Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this. Maybe you should stop making requests like this. Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is **** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group. As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not. No, this is idea is from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '**' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier. This is complete BS... all it takes to stop a freighter in its tracks is one mach bumper... nothing else! and you cant get away from it by logging or anything else if they also target you. Then the gank teams shows up when they can and you go down. This happens every 15min 24hours a day out of Jita V - Moon 17 station (goons).
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27789	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:34:14 - [30] - Quote For the OP, chasing down those with low security status is the job of the Faction Police; Concord are the tactical team that only come out to play when capsuleers shoot each other in the face without the necessary flags. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5295	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:35:38 - [31] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Actually, CONCORD looks like little fouls who can never catch their target. CONCORD is chasing these guys regardless of what others are doing because of their security status. They just need to do their jobs better. Has nothing to do with anyone else. Are you sure you aren't confusing CONCORD with the faction police? Facpo chase you around for low sec status and are easy to evade, CONCORD one shot kill you for criminal action. There's a difference. Also, we've been hyping burn jita for months, if you didn't know it was going on, well, that's another example of a freighter pilot making a dumb mistake.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:35:39 - [32] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. If you prevent criminals from moving around highsec, how will they, you know, be criminals? Simple, by managing their security status. This is a phase two concord thing for those career boys. Then they are not criminals. Just because you say it... doesn't make it true. They are criminals who stay in phase 1 with concord and dare not enter phase 2.
SkepticNerdGuy State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:37:32 - [33] - Quote I think the mechanics are fine the way they are.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:38:29 - [34] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Locko DeLavida wrote: Yea, better nerf things that are actually fun rather than balance broken ships and useless ships. Nice Its not fun for those getting ganked... their are two sides to every story. Also, the people you are ganking have put in more game time gathering their cargo than you do stealing it. Eve should not be that easy! Those getting ganked were being stupid. Being stupid should never be fun or without consequences. And yes, there are two sides and yet you are only paying attention to one side. Edit: And it is debatable that the freighter pilot has put in more time gathering his cargo. How long does it take to buy a few billion ISK of stuff? A few minutes. Probably less than 30 minutes. But lets say an hour. Now, how much time is invested in the gank. Let me see, there is the guy who has been sitting on the undock scanning stuff. How long has he been waiting for a target to undock? Then there is the bumping ship. How long has he been waiting? Then there is the fleet itself. Granted, they might have sent out a ping and it formed in a fairly short time, but still it could take say 20-30 minutes. And there might be say, 25 guys in fleet. So when we start adding up all that time it is far from clear who has more time invested. One scrub or the 25-30 guys who are going to gank his scrub ass for being a dope. Sorry, go sit at Jita V - Moon 17 station any time of the day and you can follow gankers coming back out for a new target to destroy immediately after their criminal timer expires. CONCORD just sits there trailing them until they are ready to gank and then its too late because the target is dead. EVE should not be this easy to plex.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:39:48 - [35] - Quote Owen Levanth wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. It amuses me to no end that even in a time of invulnerable police fleets calmly destroying your ship for every transgression, there are people who think that's not enough. I guess if someone ever writes a parody about this, it will inevitably end with CONCORD just automatically biomassing a ganker and transfering everything he owned to his victim. Of course his victim will get everything he lost restored, too. And at the very end the one who demanded this last change to destroy ganking accidentally opens fire on a pirate-owned structure in one of his missions, leading to him losing his 100-billion blinged pirate battleship to CONCORD, losing his character and everything he owned gets transferred to some now very confused player on the other side of New Eden.* *Based on an actual bug I experienced. If you are going to contribute to the post, try not to wonder off into la la land.
Alderson Point Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:39:52 - [36] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: No. The Mutuality of Freighter Ganking Ganking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act. First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing. Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this. Maybe you should stop making requests like this. Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is **** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group. As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not. No, this is idea is from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '**' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier. I am not against ganking, however blaming the Victim only works when the predator doesn't massacre every target it sees. When empty freighters and low value industrials can travel without being blown up for lutz, then you may have the beginnings of a valid argument. Reddit just witnessed gankers compaining they didn't make any real money because most of the "kills" were not ever going to be profitable. They still continued. So this argument fails, When ganking has sufficient deterrence, that only profitable Ganks are undertaken, then we will be nearer to balance. Op has a valid point.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:41:13 - [37] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: For the OP, chasing down those with low security status is the job of the Faction Police, not Concord. Concord are the tactical team with the fancy toys, that only come out to play when capsuleers shoot each other in the face without the necessary flags. Thats false, CONCORD appears right when these criminals undock and start pursuit before they have even attacked anything. This is because of their security status.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5295	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:43:36 - [38] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: For the OP, chasing down those with low security status is the job of the Faction Police, not Concord. Concord are the tactical team with the fancy toys, that only come out to play when capsuleers shoot each other in the face without the necessary flags. Thats false, CONCORD appears right when these criminals undock and start pursuit before they have even attacked anything. This is because of their security status. No, that is not how it works. If you do not have a criminal timer, concord do not care. The guys that chase you are faction police. I have low sec status. I know who chases me around in highsec.
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:46:31 - [39] - Quote Interesting enough, this is one Person advocating another nerf to ganking and getting no backup at all. I would say the majority here is just fine with the mechanic as it is..... so no reason to pursue this further...
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:49:47 - [40] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Interesting enough, this is one Person advocating another nerf to ganking and getting no backup at all. I would say the majority here is just fine with the mechanic as it is..... so no reason to pursue this further... LUL.... most of the people support it. Especially through the Fackbook post's comments on the EVE Online GROUP https://www.facebook.com/groups/EveOnlineFans/permalink/10155193915391015/.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27790	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:55:53 - [41] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: For the OP, chasing down those with low security status is the job of the Faction Police, not Concord. Concord are the tactical team with the fancy toys, that only come out to play when capsuleers shoot each other in the face without the necessary flags. Thats false, CONCORD appears right when these criminals undock and start pursuit before they have even attacked anything. This is because of their security status. Sorry, that's exactly how it works. I neglected to mention that the result of Concord killing you is a 15 minute criminal flag where they'll kill you again if you undock. Concord only react to a criminal timer, without one they leave you alone. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 22:58:23 - [42] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: Interesting enough, this is one Person advocating another nerf to ganking and getting no backup at all. I would say the majority here is just fine with the mechanic as it is..... so no reason to pursue this further... LUL.... most of the people support it. Especially through the Fackbook post's comments on the EVE Online GROUP https://www.facebook.com/groups/EveOnlineFans/permalink/10155193915391015/. hmmmm that thread doesn't really seem to be overwhelmingly in your favour..... some are thinking about your idea and some dont like it.... Here no one really likes it..... Soooo the majority is still against it.... not matter how often you try to shake of comments with a CapsLock "LUL"....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:01:52 - [43] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: Interesting enough, this is one Person advocating another nerf to ganking and getting no backup at all. I would say the majority here is just fine with the mechanic as it is..... so no reason to pursue this further... LUL.... most of the people support it. Especially through the Fackbook post's comments on the EVE Online GROUP https://www.facebook.com/groups/EveOnlineFans/permalink/10155193915391015/. hmmmm that thread doesn't really seem to be overwhelmingly in your favour..... some are thinking about your idea and some dont like it.... Here no one really likes it..... Soooo the majority is still against it.... not matter how often you try to shake of comments with a CapsLock "LUL".... Some of the ones who dont like it admit to be gankers when I called them out on it. Of course gankers are going to oppose anyone who wants to take their free lunch away.
Firnen Bakru Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:09:26 - [44] - Quote https://zkillboard.com/kill/59201657/ I was the bumper on this one. On a scale from one to booty blasted, how butthurt are you?
Leyanora Varkain Special Assault Unit IT'S ONLY PIXELS 21	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:09:56 - [45] - Quote Hm wow where to start. So first of all: if you get ganked in a freighter first of all you as a freighter pilot did something wrong like: 1.) Not having webs with you to help you 2.) Beeing greedy by scramming everything you got into one ship (always a rather unfortunate thing) 3.) Just play all alone in an MMO and not know about things like "Burn Jita" because nobody told you () I also have lost a freigher once because I was just beeing a way too juicy target for any ganker to ignore and I dont blame anyone but me. Another thing is: CONCORD is not around to protect anyone but rather to punish players who did something they should probably not have done (or did because they were fully aware of the consequences). Also fumbling with alpha mechanics here would not be a good option. I am still not sure if I should applaud the duders that setup the BJBee accounts or as myself it this was not some kind of abuse that should not happen (thinking about account sharing). () footnote here: it is literaly INSANE there are still so many freighter kills while an event like Burn Jita is happening. I still dont get why a person with a decent amount of common sense would go like "ok there have been a couple of freighter kills in the area around Jita - but I really need to haul over some tritanium now... and while I am on it I could easily get some plex over aswell".
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:11:23 - [46] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: Interesting enough, this is one Person advocating another nerf to ganking and getting no backup at all. I would say the majority here is just fine with the mechanic as it is..... so no reason to pursue this further... LUL.... most of the people support it. Especially through the Fackbook post's comments on the EVE Online GROUP https://www.facebook.com/groups/EveOnlineFans/permalink/10155193915391015/. hmmmm that thread doesn't really seem to be overwhelmingly in your favour..... some are thinking about your idea and some dont like it.... Here no one really likes it..... Soooo the majority is still against it.... not matter how often you try to shake of comments with a CapsLock "LUL".... Some of the ones who dont like it admit to be gankers when I called them out on it. Of course gankers are going to oppose anyone who wants to take their free lunch away. I don't understand people who cry to deny other people their fun wich existed in that game forever while the are absolutely finde with the machanics wich provide them their own fun, which can be put up for debate too (ninja looting being the example here wich you claim to be one of your professions)
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:17:16 - [47] - Quote Firnen Bakru wrote: https://zkillboard.com/kill/59201657/ I was the bumper on this one. On a scale from one to booty blasted, how butthurt are you? Fully insured ... and I expected to be ganked given that I was testing its viability as a swoop freighter to steal your ****... hardly! I expected to lose that ship. Note that its completely empty!!
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 547	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:18:01 - [48] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Owen Levanth wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. It amuses me to no end that even in a time of invulnerable police fleets calmly destroying your ship for every transgression, there are people who think that's not enough. I guess if someone ever writes a parody about this, it will inevitably end with CONCORD just automatically biomassing a ganker and transfering everything he owned to his victim. Of course his victim will get everything he lost restored, too. And at the very end the one who demanded this last change to destroy ganking accidentally opens fire on a pirate-owned structure in one of his missions, leading to him losing his 100-billion blinged pirate battleship to CONCORD, losing his character and everything he owned gets transferred to some now very confused player on the other side of New Eden.* *Based on an actual bug I experienced. If you are going to contribute to the post, try not to wonder off into la la land. This entire thread is la la land already, it's impossible to constructively add anything here. Thread should already be closed, in my opinion.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3770	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:18:58 - [49] - Quote The only people supporting this idea is: one person who doesn't know the mechanics and one liar. SSDD. Btw, im not a ganker. I mine and i fly freighters. Im just not a complete tool when i undock. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:19:14 - [50] - Quote Leyanora Varkain wrote: Hm wow where to start. So first of all: if you get ganked in a freighter first of all you as a freighter pilot did something wrong like: 1.) Not having webs with you to help you 2.) Beeing greedy by scramming everything you got into one ship (always a rather unfortunate thing) 3.) Just play all alone in an MMO and not know about things like "Burn Jita" because nobody told you () I also have lost a freigher once because I was just beeing a way too juicy target for any ganker to ignore and I dont blame anyone but me. Another thing is: CONCORD is not around to protect anyone but rather to punish players who did something they should probably not have done (or did because they were fully aware of the consequences). Also fumbling with alpha mechanics here would not be a good option. I am still not sure if I should applaud the duders that setup the BJBee accounts or as myself it this was not some kind of abuse that should not happen (thinking about account sharing). () footnote here: it is literaly INSANE there are still so many freighter kills while an event like Burn Jita is happening. I still dont get why a person with a decent amount of common sense would go like "ok there have been a couple of freighter kills in the area around Jita - but I really need to haul over some tritanium now... and while I am on it I could easily get some plex over aswell". The thread has already covered these angles and their rebuttals....

Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:26:18 - [51] - Quote "rebuttals" .... from you or what??
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27792	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:26:47 - [52] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: The thread has already covered these angles and their rebuttals.... Rebuttals which have shown that you have no idea about how Concord, and Crimewatch in general, actually work. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5989	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:29:32 - [53] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: This is complete BS... all it takes to stop a freighter in its tracks is one mach bumper... nothing else! and you cant get away from it by logging or anything else if they also target you. Then the gank teams shows up when they can and you go down. This happens every 15min 24hours a day out of Jita V - Moon 17 station (goons). Empty freighters are rarely bumped and ganked. Freighters without that much cargo value are rarely bumped or ganked. Freighters piloted by an idiot who but 6.5 billion ISK worth cargo in the hold...those get bumped and ganked. So, the implication is, don't be an idiot. If you actually engaged your brain and looked at the underlying incentives you'd realize there is NO problem with suicide ganking of freighters. It is correcting people who were stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5989	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:37:35 - [54] - Quote Alderson Point wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. The Mutuality of Freighter Ganking Ganking, especially freighters, has as much to do with the idiocy of the freighter pilot as the ganker. In fact, the freighter pilot's idiocy has to precede the actions of the suicide gankers. First, the freighter pilot does something idiotic (usually several idiotic somethings) then and only then can the suicide gankers act. First, the rise of professional ganking organizations is a direct result of this kind of nonsense. Before ganking was a rather desultory activity. You worried about it, but not like today. Groups like CODE. and Miniluv, the latter of which ganks almost entirely for profit, were not a thing. Second, nobody ganks every 15 minutes 24 hours/day. The reason why you get groups that can do that, like Miniluv, is because of requests like this. Maybe you should stop making requests like this. Third your idea would impact LS pirates too. It is **** game design if you nerf the game play of people who are not in the target group. As for Alphas, why limit their game play? What if they want to try LS pirating or suicide ganking to see if it is a career path they'd like to pursue in game and maybe even lead to them going Omega after finding out if they like it or not. No, this is idea is from beginning to end. Even if you had just written the word '**' in place of every word in your current post it could not get any shittier. I am not against ganking, however blaming the Victim only works when the predator doesn't massacre every target it sees. When empty freighters and low value industrials can travel without being blown up for lutz, then you may have the beginnings of a valid argument. Reddit just witnessed gankers compaining they didn't make any real money because most of the "kills" were not ever going to be profitable. They still continued. So this argument fails, When ganking has sufficient deterrence, that only profitable Ganks are undertaken, then we will be nearer to balance. Op has a valid point. Blame the victim? WITF? He is a victim of his own stupidity. Nobody has a right to move a crap ton of valuable stuff IN THIS GAME with out the consequences. It isn't the case that he had a legal right to be safe and secure when undocking. No, not in THIS GAME. You are conflating what happens OUT OF GAME with what happens IN GAME. The two are not the same. So your argument is not even relevant to my claims. Try again and leave the real world morals at the login window. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 57	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:45:29 - [55] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine. No. Go away.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5989	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:46:49 - [56] - Quote I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking. In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a **." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter). Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested? No. Let me repeat that. No. You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS. That is the social norm and "law" of this game. When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough **. So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
McCope McCopenhagen Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:49:52 - [57] - Quote man you're ******* stupid lmao
Circo Maximo KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:50:08 - [58] - Quote [quote= Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.[/quote] Which bee stung you?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27794	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:51:12 - [59] - Quote Whoever posted this picture of Veers on his Facebook group thread owes me coffee. Well played. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:53:13 - [60] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Not sure if this point has already been made, but why should alpha clones have even more limited game play? You are in effect punishing many players for the actions of a few. I see and understand the need for highsec only players feel the need to ask developers to protect your ships and/or cargo. In the land where EvE is supposedly a sandbox game making such changes will effectively take more away from this "sandbox"

Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 62	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:54:18 - [61] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Whoever posted this picture of Veers on his Facebook group thread owes me coffee. Well played. Twas I :) Coffe incoming!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:55:00 - [62] - Quote Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine. No. Go away. You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :)
Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 62	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:57:06 - [63] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine. No. Go away. You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :) Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates: https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:57:09 - [64] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking. In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a **." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter). Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested? No. Let me repeat that. No. You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS. That is the social norm and "law" of this game. When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough **. So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing. Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point.
Firnen Bakru Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:58:42 - [65] - Quote Leyanora Varkain wrote: Hm wow where to start. So first of all: if you get ganked in a freighter first of all you as a freighter pilot did something wrong like: (*) footnote here: it is literaly INSANE there are still so many freighter kills while an event like Burn Jita is happening. I still dont get why a person with a decent amount of common sense would go like "ok there have been a couple of freighter kills in the area around Jita - but I really need to haul over some tritanium now... and while I am on it I could easily get some plex over aswell". look at this guy, losing three fenrirs courier hauling out of jita: https://zkillboard.com/character/95786327/
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 23	Posted - 2017.02.25 23:58:52 - [66] - Quote Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine. No. Go away. You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :) Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates: https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/ Then you have no experience with the daily happenings of highsec...
Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 62	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:00:10 - [67] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jevatoxa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine. No. Go away. You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :) Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates: https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/ Then you have no experience with the daily happenings of highsec... If only you knew!
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 1	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:03:13 - [68] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking. In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a **." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter). Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested? No. Let me repeat that. No. You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS. That is the social norm and "law" of this game. When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough **. So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing. Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point. As soon as you undock you consent to PVP. And that is not my personal opinion, that is CCPs stand on it.... We understand you lost an empty faction fit freighter but please suck it up and take it like a real capsuleer...
Nomis Alexander Haldskel Corporation Omnibus Mori 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:09:28 - [69] - Quote OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons. Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 24	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:21:53 - [70] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking. In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a **." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter). Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested? No. Let me repeat that. No. You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS. That is the social norm and "law" of this game. When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough **. So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing. Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point. As soon as you undock you consent to PVP. And that is not my personal opinion, that is CCPs stand on it.... We understand you lost an empty faction fit freighter but please suck it up and take it like a real capsuleer... Get over it and talk about the OP at hand.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 24	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:23:18 - [71] - Quote Nomis Alexander wrote: OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons. Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way. Yeah, killmail is almost two months old and I just decided to get salty... Focus on the OP
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 2	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:23:46 - [72] - Quote I did and as everyone else here expressed my dislike of your "suggestion".... I think you are the one who needs to get over something.... good night
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:29:44 - [73] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: wrote: Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Which bee stung you? I pull the stingers off bees.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3867	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:30:52 - [74] - Quote The only 'balance' concord needs atm is changing from Concord ships spawning to your ship just self destructing (on exactly the same timer to when concord would blow it up currently). This would allow smart bombing to actually be used without causing crippling lag and node crashes to gank. And stop people getting mad at 300 concord on ships ignoring pirate NPC's. I also believe that Concord timers should be dramatically increased (to a couple of minutes so it's clear what I mean by increase) & industrial ships receive slots & fittings comparable to combat ships so they can actually run real tanks & some weapons. (Yes, there are a couple that already have decent tanks, STFU about those ones and look at all the others that don't). But that is a change in philosophy for Concord, though I believe longer gank timers would increase interaction and make things less predictable, it is not what the current concord is about and so isn't a 'balance' thing on the current iteration.
Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 66	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:36:38 - [75] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Nomis Alexander wrote: OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons. Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way. Yeah, killmail is almost two months old and I just decided to get salty... Focus on the OP Surely, you should be over your loss by now then? But clearly not, hence your tears on here over a month later!
Nikki Kaiser KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:37:05 - [76] - Quote Am I the only one that finds it amusing that OP is complaining about goons while sporting the Imperium portrait backdrop?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:44:24 - [77] - Quote Nikki Kaiser wrote: Am I the only one that finds it amusing that OP is complaining about goons while sporting the Imperium portrait backdrop? Yes... you are the only one it seems.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:48:25 - [78] - Quote Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Trajan Unknown SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 139	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:52:26 - [79] - Quote I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fuck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid. If people undock with * that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers. If people know how to haul their they wont. Our logi guys hauling on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the ** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won-¦t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don-¦t stay stupid and you won-¦t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18691	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:53:21 - [80] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Why?

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:56:31 - [81] - Quote Trajan Unknown wrote: I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fuck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid. If people undock with * that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers. If people know how to haul their they wont. Our logi guys hauling on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the ** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won-¦t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don-¦t stay stupid and you won-¦t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D Pulling in 50bil a day from highsec ganks should not be an intended and permanent source of income. Go to null and battle another corp if you need those kinds of returns.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:58:14 - [82] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Why? Because your continually making concord get off their ass and do **** they would rather not. Why wouldnt they hate more and more for continually pissing them them off.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:59:53 - [83] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Why? Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Siobhan MacLeary Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 223	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:04:02 - [84] - Quote dude this is a game remove the stick from your ass and untwist your knickers, stop being stupid and stop acting like this suggestion of yours is anything beyond you going "Waaaaaaaah I got ganked waaaaaah CCP needs to cater to me waaaaaah" GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:05:46 - [85] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: dude this is a game remove the stick from your ass and untwist your knickers, stop being stupid and stop acting like this suggestion of yours is anything beyond you going "Waaaaaaaah I got ganked waaaaaah CCP needs to cater to me waaaaaah" Lame excuse. Maybe you should explain why my idea is dumb instead so we maybe can agree why it might be a dumb idea to begin with instead of coming with lame excuses so you can keep doing your low risk, no penalty ganking forever? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:07:31 - [86] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: dude this is a game remove the stick from your ass and untwist your knickers, stop being stupid and stop acting like this suggestion of yours is anything beyond you going "Waaaaaaaah I got ganked waaaaaah CCP needs to cater to me waaaaaah" Just a game.... :)
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:19:18 - [87] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking. In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a **." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter). Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested? No. Let me repeat that. No. You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS. That is the social norm and "law" of this game. When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough **. So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing. Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point. Again, that is not how it works in game. You can be shot anywhere. And ganking empty hulls, outside of Burn events, is rare. You are just being deliberately obtuse. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:21:37 - [88] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Trajan Unknown wrote: I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fuck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid. If people undock with * that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers. If people know how to haul their they wont. Our logi guys hauling on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the ** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won-¦t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don-¦t stay stupid and you won-¦t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D Pulling in 50bil a day from highsec ganks should not be an intended and permanent source of income. Go to null and battle another corp if you need those kinds of returns. Why aren't you talking to the idiots that make that income available? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:23:03 - [89] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:23:11 - [90] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trajan Unknown wrote: I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fuck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid. If people undock with * that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers. If people know how to haul their they wont. Our logi guys hauling on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the ** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won-¦t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don-¦t stay stupid and you won-¦t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D Pulling in 50bil a day from highsec ganks should not be an intended and permanent source of income. Go to null and battle another corp if you need those kinds of returns. Why aren't you talking to the idiots that make that income available? Because its not balanced...

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:24:45 - [91] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? Just because everything is not completely RL does not mean that games do not inspire to be life-like. If they didnt, there would be no interest.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:28:51 - [92] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trajan Unknown wrote: I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fuck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid. If people undock with * that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers. If people know how to haul their they wont. Our logi guys hauling on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the ** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won-¦t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don-¦t stay stupid and you won-¦t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D Pulling in 50bil a day from highsec ganks should not be an intended and permanent source of income. Go to null and battle another corp if you need those kinds of returns. Why aren't you talking to the idiots that make that income available? Because its not balanced... If the idiots stop overfilling their freighters the income goes away. Duh. Cripes you're dumb. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:29:36 - [93] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? Just because everything is not completely life-like does not mean that games do not inspire to be life-like. The norms in game are different than the norms out of game. Trying to draw false equivalences is stupid. So stop being stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:31:12 - [94] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic / elements in the game? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:31:22 - [95] - Quote CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:32:58 - [96] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic in the game? No, of course not. Your logic is flawed because the norms in game are not the same as RL. Stealing in RL is not tolerated, yet there is virtually no in game mechanism to punish a corp thief or a scammer. OMG!!! CCP!!! Fix scamming. Patch it out. It is not like RL. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:33:46 - [97] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? Just because everything is not completely life-like does not mean that games do not inspire to be life-like. The norms in game are different than the norms out of game. Trying to draw false equivalences is stupid. So stop being stupid. yes mom!!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:33:53 - [98] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. CCP should balance the game where criminals is getting threated like criminals and not like the free pass to do gank fovever with no risk and no penalty as it is now. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 948	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:34:46 - [99] - Quote No. Also, HTFU Kthxbai Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:35:45 - [100] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. Who are you to say what CCP should be doing. CCP is a business and whatever makes gameplay more enjoyable for all is aloud to be changed. There are regular content / features patches for a reason. Its called reactive development.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:36:03 - [101] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic in the game? No, of course not. Your logic is flawed because the norms in game are not the same as RL. Stealing in RL is not tolerated, yet there is virtually no in game mechanism to punish a corp thief or a scammer. OMG!!! CCP!!! Fix scamming. Patch it out. It is not like RL. If you find out who stole from you in EVE, there is basicly a million ways you can hunt that player down and make his ingame life miserable. So that excuse doesn't hold water. Dom Arkaral wrote: No. Also, HTFU Kthxbai Why? You can't just say no without explaining why, can you? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:36:33 - [102] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: No. Also, HTFU Kthxbai Lul... another ganker. How's Kusion been. Do I need to start coming around again.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:39:31 - [103] - Quote This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jakara Dakara Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 3	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:40:37 - [104] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. OK 1) You should try searching the forum, this post has been made, ad nauseam, again and again and again. 2) Concord is designed to react to a crime not prevent, CCP has not mentioned wanting to change this. 3) Concord gets regularly made a fool out of in the lore, why can't we have fun with the police too? 4) Having alpha safety locks has been mentioned in other threads as well, they don't want to take emergent game play away from them 5) Everything you mentioned would still severely damage the ability for dudes to gank, even worse than it has been already. 6) You've mentioned you steal the loot from a gank and profit off of it (making it less worthwhile for the gankers I might add), why would you want to remove that emergent gameplay/profit source from yourself?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:42:59 - [105] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:46:00 - [106] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes it a mach bumper on each gate and the can stop and freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:48:10 - [107] - Quote Jakara Dakara wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. OK 1) You should try searching the forum, this post has been made, ad nauseam, again and again and again. 2) Concord is designed to react to a crime not prevent, CCP has not mentioned wanting to change this. 3) Concord gets regularly made a fool out of in the lore, why can't we have fun with the police too? 4) Having alpha safety locks has been mentioned in other threads as well, they don't want to take emergent game play away from them 5) Everything you mentioned would still severely damage the ability for dudes to gank, even worse than it has been already. 6) You've mentioned you steal the loot from a gank and profit off of it (making it less worthwhile for the gankers I might add), why would you want to remove that emergent gameplay/profit source from yourself? because its bad gameplay for a highsec system and I can make isk in any security status. I dont rely on ganks for income.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3773	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:50:05 - [108] - Quote Thats not a joke. Thats the game. Don't like it? Don't play. Goons even announce this event ahead of time. If you are still getting ganked its your own dumb arse fault and ccp aren't going to protect you from your own stupidity. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:51:46 - [109] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Thats not a joke. Thats the game. Don't like it? Don't play. Goons even announce this event ahead of time. If you are still getting ganked its your own dumb arse fault and ccp aren't going to protect you from your own stupidity. So basicly, the game can't be changed for the better, just because EVE is EVE. So i have to stop playing EVE because EVE is EVE and it can't be changed is what you are saying? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:51:57 - [110] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Thats not a joke. Thats the game. Don't like it? Don't play. Goons even announce this event ahead of time. If you are still getting ganked its your own dumb arse fault and ccp aren't going to protect you from your own stupidity. Sorry... but I like the game and want to make it better so that more people will play. No good-old-boy clubs here trying to keep a feature that fits their gameplay style and allows them to rake in mountain of plex. Pay your subscriptions or earn them properly like everyone else. That is why we have a highsec, lowsec, and nullsec. I agree with ganking, but it is out of hand at the moment.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:56:32 - [111] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Thats not a joke. Thats the game. Don't like it? Don't play. Goons even announce this event ahead of time. If you are still getting ganked its your own dumb arse fault and ccp aren't going to protect you from your own stupidity. And btw... this has nothing to do with the burn Jita event. Goons do this all day, everyday, all year long. I already told you where they are stationed... go see for yourself.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:02:15 - [112] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic in the game? No, of course not. Your logic is flawed because the norms in game are not the same as RL. Stealing in RL is not tolerated, yet there is virtually no in game mechanism to punish a corp thief or a scammer. OMG!!! CCP!!! Fix scamming. Patch it out. It is not like RL. If you find out who stole from you in EVE, there is basicly a million ways you can hunt that player down and make his ingame life miserable. So that excuse doesn't hold water Please. You can say the same thing to those who suicide gank. But you aren't you want CCP to punish them. And you talk of logic. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3774	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:03:33 - [113] - Quote If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:04:46 - [114] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:08:05 - [115] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke. Aside from Burn events Goons gank for profit as a general rule. The profit is created by the freighter pilot overloading his freighter. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:09:38 - [116] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb...
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:10:41 - [117] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. Have you never heard of "agree to disagree." You dont need to keep repeating your point. We get it.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5990	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:17:02 - [118] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. Have you never heard of "agree to disagree." You dont need to keep repeating your point. We get it. You get it. Then why do you have a problem with ganking? The player getting ganked had the power to avoid the gank he chose not too. Why do you want to shield such players from the consequences of their foolishness. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 25	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:20:25 - [119] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. Have you never heard of "agree to disagree." You dont need to keep repeating your point. We get it. You get it. Then why do you have a problem with ganking? The player getting ganked had the power to avoid the gank he chose not too. Why do you want to shield such players from the consequences of their foolishness. Officially ignore for trolling
Janeos GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 86	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:52:00 - [120] - Quote I haven't seen a vein of salt this rich in YEARS.

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 948	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:01:10 - [121] - Quote tl;dr op hates ganking op wants ganking to dissapear by havong concord preventing ganks XD CONCORD is there to punish, not to prevent That's how it always was, that's how it'll stay Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:02:02 - [122] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. And the cash-transport car also creates the ambush / stealing oppoturnity for peoples who want to do crimes / steal money. But that alone doesn't mean the criminals can just keep going and steal the money everytime they see a cash-transport car with no consequences for continueing to do that. Your excuses doesn't work. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5779	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:02:33 - [123] - Quote Just have CONCORD pod the suckers... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Circo Maximo KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:02:37 - [124] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. Who are you to say what CCP should be doing. CCP is a business and whatever makes gameplay more enjoyable for all is aloud to be changed. There are regular content / features patches for a reason. Its called reactive development. Players are punished in highsec by being killed and lowered security status where they aren't free to fly anywhere without being chased and killed. What is your issue? No one is entitled to being invincible while outnumbered. Make your ship economically unfeasible to be killed and profited from, the end. If people can form fleets to kill you, you should have to put in the same effort to stay alive as well. Get organized and get good instead of putting all your effort into crying for CCP to save you from your own ineptitude.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:04:11 - [125] - Quote Janeos wrote: I haven't seen a vein of salt this rich in YEARS. This has nothing to do with salt. It has all to do with balancing the game out for what criminals are allowed to keep doing days in and days out without risks or consequences. You know pretty well you have a nice luxury doing this and doesn't want to have a harder time doing this the more crimes you do. Dom Arkaral wrote: tl;dr op hates ganking op wants ganking to dissapear by havong concord preventing ganks XD CONCORD is there to punish, not to prevent That's how it always was, that's how it'll stay Yeah, Concord (like the police) is there to punish you harder and harder the more crimes you do. Isn't that kinda logic? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5992	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:19:30 - [126] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke. And yet all of this can be avoided by: 1. Not over stuffing your freighter. 2. Using a scout. 3. Having your scout use webs. There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5992	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:26:03 - [127] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. And the cash-transport car also creates the ambush / stealing oppoturnity for peoples who want to do crimes / steal money. But that alone doesn't mean the criminals can just keep going and steal the money everytime they see a cash-transport car with no consequences for continueing to do that. Your excuses doesn't work. Let me see, they use an armored car and the guards have weapons...and they work in a society where people are not even contemplating trying to rob it. Oh yeah...and there are no clones for us to wake up in RL if we get killed. Yeah, that is a totally valid comparison.[/sarcasm] "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:27:51 - [128] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke. And yet all of this can be avoided by: 1. Not over stuffing your freighter. 2. Using a scout. 3. Having your scout use webs. There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity. 1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times? Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them if they rob me. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime? 2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them. Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever. 3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5992	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:28:19 - [129] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. Who are you to say what CCP should be doing. CCP is a business and whatever makes gameplay more enjoyable for all is aloud to be changed. There are regular content / features patches for a reason. Its called reactive development. Players are punished in highsec by being killed and lowered security status where they aren't free to fly anywhere without being chased and killed. What is your issue? No one is entitled to being invincible while outnumbered. Make your ship economically unfeasible to be killed and profited from, the end. If people can form fleets to kill you, you should have to put in the same effort to stay alive as well. Get organized and get good instead of putting all your effort into crying for CCP to save you from your own ineptitude. Also, "don't put all your eggs in one basket". "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Circo Maximo KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:42:36 - [130] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke. And yet all of this can be avoided by: 1. Not over stuffing your freighter. 2. Using a scout. 3. Having your scout use webs. There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity. 1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times? Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them if they rob me. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime? 2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them. Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever. 3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire. Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:45:01 - [131] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27799	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:47:57 - [132] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy targets. It's that fecking simple. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:50:02 - [133] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:52:49 - [134] - Quote NightmareX wrote: 1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times? Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime? You don't live in New Eden. Different set or norms and laws/rules. So right off you are looking silly. Second, a smart phone and even a couple hundred in cash is not like stuffing half your life's savings into your wallet. Even in RL, if you took half your wealth, stuck in your pocket and went walking down the street most people would consider that imprudent. After all, if you need to move half your wealth from A to B you could just go over to B open an account and write a check against your account in A. You could have A transfer it. You have options for far, far safer modes of moving large amounts of wealth. NightmareX wrote: 2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them. Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever. You are the one wanting hand holding by not just a friend, but by all powerful NPCs. The ironic is so rich here. NightmareX wrote: 3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire. Who said alt. Ask a friend. You do have friends in game, right? I've had a friend scout for me. I've scouted for friends. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
commander aze 306	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:53:16 - [135] - Quote https://imgflip.com/i/1kcry4 <--- Had to be said Also not crazy about making massive changes in code to allow npc stations to point people... I know the red setting on alphas was a thing a while back and ccp said they didnt anticipate abuse ot this and they would review it at a later time. Commander Aze For CSM XII https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400 Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:53:36 - [136] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. For some not simple enough. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:56:07 - [137] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Why? Why shouldn't players be able to punish others for their imprudence? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27801	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:01:07 - [138] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:02:21 - [139] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You don't live in New Eden. Different set or norms and laws/rules. So right off you are looking silly. Second, a smart phone and even a couple hundred in cash is not like stuffing half your life's savings into your wallet. Even in RL, if you took half your wealth, stuck in your pocket and went walking down the street most people would consider that imprudent. After all, if you need to move half your wealth from A to B you could just go over to B open an account and write a check against your account in A. You could have A transfer it. You have options for far, far safer modes of moving large amounts of wealth. Who said anything about how much money i'm traveling with? For all you know i can travel with ALOT of money. And you can buy rather expensive smartphones out there. Just look at the Vertu's out there. Teckos Pech wrote: You are the one wanting hand holding by not just a friend, but by all powerful NPCs. The ironic is so rich here. No, i want criminals to get a harder time against the Police / Concord the more crimes they do within one day. That's all i want. I'm not against ganking at all if you eally think i'am doing that. Teckos Pech wrote: Who said alt. Ask a friend. You do have friends in game, right? I've had a friend scout for me. I've scouted for friends. Still the same. You shouldn't be in need of others to just move ships around as long as you aren't in a war with someone. If they are at war, then it's for another topic and a totally different thing. Not only that, but scouting for gankers in Destroyers is very hard. Because one second a gate can be clear and tells the Freighter to jump in. But because the freighter is so slow at entering warp, you can basicly sit 2 jumps out with some Destroyers and just head towards the freighter and gank it before it had entered warp. Not only that. Should every Freighter polits just stop doing what they are doing, just because they see a potential bumping Machariel at gates to? Once a freighter is getting bumped by some Machariel or whatever, the chance of getting out is very low. So some simple bumps is all that is needed to ruins someones days. So it shouldn't be that easy to gank others. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:10:50 - [140] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Jakara Dakara Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 4	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:12:21 - [141] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jakara Dakara wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. OK 1) You should try searching the forum, this post has been made, ad nauseam, again and again and again. 2) Concord is designed to react to a crime not prevent, CCP has not mentioned wanting to change this. 3) Concord gets regularly made a fool out of in the lore, why can't we have fun with the police too? 4) Having alpha safety locks has been mentioned in other threads as well, they don't want to take emergent game play away from them 5) Everything you mentioned would still severely damage the ability for dudes to gank, even worse than it has been already. 6) You've mentioned you steal the loot from a gank and profit off of it (making it less worthwhile for the gankers I might add), why would you want to remove that emergent gameplay/profit source from yourself? because its bad gameplay for a highsec system and I can make isk in any security status. I dont rely on ganks for income. so what about points 1 - 5?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27802	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:29:01 - [142] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? Concord don't care how often you kill, they only care that you kill without sanction. What you're suggesting is that Concord have access to someones kill history and scales their response accordingly, which raises questions. How do they distinguish between legal and illegal kills for scaling purposes? How much work would be required to implement your suggestion? Would the time spent implementing this be better spent elsewhere? Would it actually fix anything? Quote: And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? Your crime is that you shot something without the appropriate flags. What you shoot is completely irrelevant. Quote: If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? Your analogy is flawed, this is not about value, this is about the actual act of crime. The crime being shooting at another player without sanction. Using the example of cars, if you steal a car, whether it be a Bentley or a Kia, the Police and the courts wouldn't care what car you stole, they would only care that you stole a car; your punishment is for the crime of stealing a car, not stealing a Kia or a Bentley. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:34:51 - [143] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? Concord don't care how often you kill, they only care that you kill without sanction. What you're suggesting is that Concord have access to someones kill history and scales their response accordingly, which raises questions. How do they distinguish between legal and illegal kills for scaling purposes? How much work would be required to implement your suggestion? Would the time spent implementing this be better spent elsewhere? Would it actually fix anything? Quote: And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? Your crime is that you shot something without the appropriate flags. What you shoot is completely irrelevant. Quote: If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? Your analogy is flawed, this is not about value, this is about the actual act of crime. Using you example of cars, if you steal a car, be it a Bentley or a Kia, the Police and the courts wouldn't care what car you stole, they only care that you stole a car; your punishment is for the crime of stealing a car, not stealing a Kia or a Bentley. You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day? Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime. Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do. If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Kill-Chan The Conference Elite CODE. 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:55:48 - [144] - Quote Praise James no one in their right minds would listen to your terrible ideas.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27803	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:56:08 - [145] - Quote NightmareX wrote: You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day? You still haven't explained why they should, nor have you taken into consideration what would need to be done on the back-end for Concord to work in this way. The fact of the matter is that they don't. You commit your crime, your ship dies and you get to wait out a 15 minute timer. Once that timer is up your record is wiped as far as Concord is concerned. If someone ganks multiple ships each day they have a low security status and are likely free to be engaged, shoot them in the face when they undock, shoot them in the face at the gates before they start shooting other people in the face. The Faction Police will be shooting at them too, when they catch up. The tools to inflict retribution over and above that provided by the game are already in your hands, that's what they're there for. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP to further punish ganking via mechanics changes; use the tools at your disposal to do it yourself. The means are also there to make gankers go and pick another target, many are common sense precautions, some require knowledge of game mechanics. What people forget is that Eve is above all a full loot PvP game; you don't AFK, you don't carry all your shiny stuff, you don't fit your ship with nothing but cargo mods, this is some of that common sense. Quote: Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime. How? You lose your ship in seconds, you can't warp, you cant undock in anything but a pod. The only thing left is podding, gankers won't care, they'll just use implant free clones for ganking and wake up in a med clone at the same station, because they're not daft and set the station that they're working out of up with a med clone. Quote: Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do. Which part of you can't avoid Concord did you fail to understand? It's mechanically impossible and if you do find a way it's a ban. Quote: If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work? See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Tuggin Coggs Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:59:16 - [146] - Quote give all transports drones and i think we are on to something
Imya Wormhole 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:00:48 - [147] - Quote I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him.
Budsin Adar Blue Angel's The Republic. 12	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:09:14 - [148] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCP Please implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. I totally agree. Now those offenders like CODE example with -10.0 boot them from highsec but can only travel in pods no different than faction war stats like most of us have where we cannot go to amarr Jita Rens and Dodixie, also how can we have tags as well to get to fly back into their systems without mission running as much like with stats showing as of -9.0 or what have you thanks.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27803	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:09:39 - [149] - Quote Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:17:16 - [150] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You still haven't explained why they should, nor have you taken into consideration what would need to be done on the back-end for Concord to work in this way. I have explained why. I have explained it's the police's work to keep track of your crimes. And the more crimes you do, the more they will punish you. Doesn't that sounds right to you? And most things is possible to do in EVE today, so making Concord harder against you the more you do crimes should be no problem to fix. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The fact of the matter is that they don't. You commit your crime, your ship dies and you get to wait out a 15 minute timer. Once that timer is up your record is wiped as far as Concord is concerned. If someone ganks multiple ships each day they have a low security status and are likely free to be engaged, shoot them in the face when they undock, shoot them in the face at the gates before they start shooting other people in the face. Yeah wow, the whole 15 minutes until you can do the same crime over and over and over in the infinite without having anything to worry about. Yeah, that's professional police / Concord work right there that allows that to happen over and over again without giving you more penalities. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The tools to inflict retribution over and above that provided by the game are already in your hands, that's what they're there for. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP to further punish ganking via mechanics changes; use the tools at your disposal to do it yourself. So all freighter pilots have to use this and that to be able to function as normal in high sec while you gankers doesn't have to be dependent on anything else for a bumping ship to be able to do what you are supposed to do? Again, i'm not saying you shouldn't be able to gank. I'm just saying the penalties should raise the more crimes you do, which is normal in our human nature to do against criminals. SO why shouldn't it be the same in EVE when EVE is all about humans in space to begin with? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The means are also there to make gankers go and pick another target, many are common sense precautions, some require knowledge of game mechanics. What people forget is that Eve is above all a full loot PvP game; you don't AFK, you don't carry all your shiny stuff, you don't fit your ship with nothing but cargo mods, this is some of that common sense. Like i have said, you are free to go and gank more stuffs. But the challenge will be harder as the police / Concord will be hunting you and will try to kill you more actively and faster the more you do crimes. This is a normal police tactic. So i don't see why it can't be like that in EVE. --------> Continues on next post. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:18:30 - [151] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: How? You lose your ship in seconds, you can't warp, you cant undock in anything but a pod. The only thing left is podding, gankers won't care, they'll just use implant free clones for ganking and wake up in a med clone at the same station, because they're not daft and set the station that they're working out of up with a med clone. Yeah, you lose a ship worth a couple of million isks and 15 minutes of your time. Such a horrible punishment to lose when you takes into the consideration that you freely without ANY risks except for losing the worthless ship can just do this over and over and over again every 15 mins without any other consequences. You think it's ok to do crimes this way over and over and not being punished harder over continuing doing the said crime? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Which part of you can't avoid Concord did you fail to understand? It's mechanically impossible and if you do find a way it's a ban. I never said avoid Concord. I said to be able to get away somewhere AFTER Concord have killed you for doing a crime while being within the Concord timer. If you do commit a crime or suicide someone, then Concord will kill you. If you avoid that, then yes, it's a bannable offense. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about leaving a system under the Concord timer AFTER you have been killed by them. I'm just saying it should be harder to roam in high sec the more crimes you do each day from downtime to downtime. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work. I'm sorry, but look at my replies over first before you claim i have no clues. I have been plahing EVE since early 2004, but i for sure knows how this works. All i want is a system that will makes it harder for players who have committed a crime to freely roam around in high sec without getting caught by Concord or whatever. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:19:45 - [152] - Quote Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. If you are talking about me, then no, i use the Voltron / MBC background from the WWB. The other one that is the new background is the Imperium one. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Circo Maximo KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:19:48 - [153] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? All capsuleers matter. Your freighter doesn't deserve more protection from CONCORD than that rifter. If what you have is so valuable, protect it better. One person shouldn't be invincible anywhere in the game. You already have CONCORD killing everyone that attacks people and attacking criminals on sight. Put more time in playing smarter instead of sitting there begging for your hand to be held more. Don't play an MMO if you don't want player interaction.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:23:29 - [154] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: All capsuleers matter. Your freighter doesn't deserve more protection from CONCORD than that rifter. If what you have is so valuable, protect it better. One person shouldn't be invincible anywhere in the game. You already have CONCORD killing everyone that attacks people and attacking criminals on sight. Put more time in playing smarter instead of sitting there begging for your hand to be held more. Don't play an MMO if you don't want player interaction. But this is not about what ship you fly. It's about the crimes you do. The more crimes you do, the more penalties or consequences you should face. It's logic by human nature to threat criminals like that. So the same should be in EVE to. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:27:16 - [155] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27804	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:38:18 - [156] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Yeah, you lose a ship worth a couple of million isks and 15 minutes of your time. Such a horrible punishment to lose when you takes into the consideration that you freely without ANY risks except for losing the worthless ship can just do this over and over and over again every 15 mins without any other consequences. You think it's ok to do crimes this way over and over and not being punished harder over continuing doing the said crime? Yes, it's a game. Quote: I never said avoid Concord. I said to be able to get away somewhere AFTER Concord have killed you for doing a crime while being within the Concord timer. If you do commit a crime or suicide someone, then Concord will kill you. If you avoid that, then yes, it's a bannable offense. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about leaving a system under the Concord timer AFTER you have been killed by them. If you're under the timer to which Concord respond then your changes won't fix the things that you claim it'll will fix. The reason being that it's mechanically impossible to leave the system in anything other than a pod or via a jump clone while under a criminal flag/timer, and Concord don't pod. Even if they did, it would make little difference to gankers because they tend to work in select systems, which they'll never need to leave while under the timer to which Concord responds; and as mentioned med clones are a thing. Quote: I'm just saying it should be harder to roam in high sec the more crimes you do each day from downtime to downtime. I'm saying that your suggestion is aimed at making it easier and easier for the stupid, the greedy and the lazy to ply the space lanes without losing their stuff. Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or though in at all? Quote: See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work. I'm sorry, but look at my replies over first before you claim i have no clues. I have been plahing EVE since early 2004, but i for sure knows how this works. All i want is a system that will makes it harder for players who have committed a crime to freely roam around in high sec without getting caught by Concord or whatever.[/quote]I don't care how long you've been playing, either your knowledge is lacking or you have difficulty demonstrating it on the forums. Oh and you're wrong about something else, I'm no ganker, I'm the prey that gets away because I'm not fly stupid. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:40:46 - [157] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yes, it's a game. So just because it's a game, the game can't be improved or balanced to let criminals be threated as actual criminals? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27804	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:44:34 - [158] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yes, it's a game. So just because it's a game, the game can't be improved or balanced to let criminals be threated as actual criminals? I'm not sure, but i think you shouldn't talk so loudly on who knows what when you can't even explain the things i'm talking about, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A FREAKING GAME. Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:48:04 - [159] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? EDIT: Going to bed now, so i will answer or give out new posts if needed later today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27804	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:56:48 - [160] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking. Gankers get nerfed Gankers adapt. People still explode and whine on the forums about it. Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult. Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf. Now your turn to answer a question. I wrote: Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all? How is that anywhere near balanced? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:03:24 - [161] - Quote Massive +1 for the Thread Owner! Finally some people starts to speak it laud; Todays mechanic is too old for todays players who abuse the rules; Creating a **** toons of alphas HAVE impact at servers quality - logging off, and on tousands of time per day just to avoide consequances is breaking the rules as there are NO punishment for this kind of actions; So double +1
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:03:30 - [162] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Who said anything about how much money i'm traveling with? But that is the point. Ganking an empty freighter happens, but rarely, aside from events like Burn Jita. NightmareX wrote: For all you know i can travel with ALOT of money. Well, in the U.S. you can travel with any amount of money. Of course, if the police stop you they could take it via civil asset forfeiture. So, you arenGÇÖt even safe from them. Maybe CONCORD should start ganking the odd overstuffed freighter and call it civil asset forfeiture. BTW, with civil asset forfeiture law enforcement must merely suspect wrong doing, not actually charge you with a crime. NightmareX wrote: Not only that, but scouting for gankers in Destroyers is very hard. Because one second a gate can be clear and tells the Freighter to jump in. But because the freighter is so slow at entering warp, you can basicly sit 2 jumps out with some Destroyers and just head towards the freighter and gank it before it had entered warp. Not only that. Should every Freighter polits just stop doing what they are doing, just because they see a potential bumping Machariel at gates to? Use local for the love of God. Set known ganking organizations red. Use webs. Tank your freighter. DonGÇÖt put too much value in it. There are plenty of idiots out there you just have to be smarter than them. Let the gankers eat them while you sail on through. NightmareX wrote: Once a freighter is getting bumped by some MacharielGÇª. Yes, at this point you have basically screwed up several times. 1. Too much stuff in your cargo hold. 2. No scout. 3. No webs. 4. You probably anti-tanked your freighter. 5. You are almost surely going to die. You should have not done everything wrong in 1-4. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:08:19 - [163] - Quote NightmareX wrote: You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day? They are the police and are supposed to have control over the crimes you do. Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime. Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do. If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work? So you have two guys, both -10. One guy got that way by ganking. The other by killing people in LS. You want to treat them the same, but based on your arguments you shouldnGÇÖt. One guy has ganked and ganked and ganked. The other engaged people in LS, a place where CONCORD does not patrol. Jonah is pointing out your mechanics suggestion is flawed, dumb, stupid, and will not discriminate if based on sec status. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:14:10 - [164] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking. Gankers get nerfed Gankers adapt. People still explode and whine on the forums about it. Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult. Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf. Now your turn to answer a question. I wrote: Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all? How is that anywhere near balanced? Adding to this now you have groups like Miniluv and CODE. who are practically profession ganking organizations. They can gank even in 1.0 systems if the idiot has put enough value into his freighter. We got here for a reason...that reason are the previous changes to ganking, CONCORD, etc. Now you want to nerf it again. Are you sure. It hasn't worked out for you so far. And yes, you can nerf it until it is dead, but killing content is not going to help the game. Go look at the trends in Eve Offline. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:17:13 - [165] - Quote Jakara Dakara wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jakara Dakara wrote: OK 1) You should try searching the forum, this post has been made, ad nauseam, again and again and again. 2) Concord is designed to react to a crime not prevent, CCP has not mentioned wanting to change this. 3) Concord gets regularly made a fool out of in the lore, why can't we have fun with the police too? 4) Having alpha safety locks has been mentioned in other threads as well, they don't want to take emergent game play away from them 5) Everything you mentioned would still severely damage the ability for dudes to gank, even worse than it has been already. 6) You've mentioned you steal the loot from a gank and profit off of it (making it less worthwhile for the gankers I might add), why would you want to remove that emergent gameplay/profit source from yourself? because its bad gameplay for a highsec system and I can make isk in any security status. I dont rely on ganks for income. so what about points 1 - 5? Forget it. They guy can't think like that, IMO. He just simply can't. The concepts of emergence and spontaneous order are literally outside his area of knowledge. He isn't even aware of why we have gotten "here" where we have professional ganking groups like CODE. and Miniluv. He should be blaming CCP and their changes to the game that got us here. But he won't because as I said things like emergence are things he just not comprehend. At all. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:33:23 - [166] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 29	Posted - 2017.02.26 08:09:50 - [167] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5993	Posted - 2017.02.26 08:17:35 - [168] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ That wasn't a gank. And wow were you looking hard for that one. Is that what you've been doing since your last post. Trolling through Daichi's loss mails trying to find something....anything. Truly pathetic. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 29	Posted - 2017.02.26 08:35:15 - [169] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ That wasn't a gank. And wow were you looking hard for that one. Is that what you've been doing since your last post. Trolling through Daichi's loss mails trying to find something....anything. Truly pathetic. Your likes received and the amount of repetitive posts on this thread are what is pathetic.
Van Doe 29	Posted - 2017.02.26 09:16:28 - [170] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ So you want concord to be buffed so they can police in null? Btw that's a total legit loss. Nothing to do with the stupidly getting ganked in highsec I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:00:03 - [171] - Quote Van Doe wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ So you want concord to be buffed so they can police in null? Btw that's a total legit loss. Nothing to do with the stupidly getting ganked in highsec What means "stupid getting ganked in high sec"? And why i should put so much effort to just move stuff from place to place for a 10-20mil ISK profit? Because some dumb ppl bored of their lifes decide to screw someones game?
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:04:04 - [172] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: logging off, and on tousands of times a day you wut m8 BLOPS Hauler
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:05:35 - [173] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: What means "stupid getting ganked in high sec"? And why i should put so much effort to just move stuff from place to place for a 10-20mil ISK profit? Because some dumb ppl bored of their lifes decide to screw someones game? well if you want to do it safely then yes. at least they are messing with your game within the confines of the game you want to change the game to turn their game to **** BLOPS Hauler
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:06:14 - [174] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: logging off, and on tousands of times a day you wut m8 https://gyazo.com/1dd70fdc995710edc2b684f7287b1185
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:07:40 - [175] - Quote Van Doe wrote: So you want concord to be buffed so they can police in null? Btw that's a total legit loss. Nothing to do with the stupidly getting ganked in highsec no it has to do with stupidly hauling BPOs in a domi through null lol BLOPS Hauler
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:07:52 - [176] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: What means "stupid getting ganked in high sec"? And why i should put so much effort to just move stuff from place to place for a 10-20mil ISK profit? Because some dumb ppl bored of their lifes decide to screw someones game? well if you want to do it safely then yes. at least they are messing with your game within the confines of the game you want to change the game to turn their game to **** Im in HIGH SEC - that means i should be SAFE to do it- If i want to put so much effort for being safe - i would move my ass and go by low sec; Being safe means I already PUT MUCH EFFORT as i changed my route from 10j to 20j; And U decide to screw MY game - and of course there is no consq for you doing that;
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5998	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:19:52 - [177] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Im in HIGH SEC - that means i should be SAFE to do it- Nope. HS means there are just more consequences for me shooting you. That's it. That for many players those consequences dissuade them from shooting you does not mean you are safe from all players. Naye Nathaniel wrote: If i want to put so much effort for being safe - i would move my ass and go by low sec; Maybe you should mover yourself to another game or realize how this game works. Your choice. Naye Nathaniel wrote: Being safe means I already PUT MUCH EFFORT as i changed my route from 10j to 20j; And U decide to screw MY game - and of course there is no consq for you doing that; Nope. Again, HS is where there are more consequences if I decide to shoot you. If I bring 29 friends and we shoot you...and your ship is blown up, and yet another friend comes along and scoops the loot and scoots...welcome to the sandbox. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:24:10 - [178] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: What means "stupid getting ganked in high sec"? And why i should put so much effort to just move stuff from place to place for a 10-20mil ISK profit? Because some dumb ppl bored of their lifes decide to screw someones game? well if you want to do it safely then yes. at least they are messing with your game within the confines of the game you want to change the game to turn their game to ** Im in HIGH SEC - that means i should be SAFE to do it- If i want to put so much effort for being safe - i would move my ass and go by low sec; i would like to direct you to eves FAQ where it is plainly stated that HS is not safe sec Quote:** Being safe means I already PUT MUCH EFFORT as i changed my route from 10j to 20j; And U decide to screw MY game - and of course there is no consq for you doing that; only screw your game if i out play you. that's the game you are playing go to wow if you want a theme park this is a sandbox BLOPS Hauler
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 10:34:52 - [179] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. except ganking is one of the most enjoyable and accessible parts of the game for a new player. it probably generates more subs than it costs. BLOPS Hauler
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 350	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:05:02 - [180] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Your likes received and the amount of repetitive posts on this thread are what is pathetic. Maybe he receives likes because people agree with him, and the posts are repetitive because you refuse to understand them, necessitating their point being made again? I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 32	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:10:22 - [181] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. except ganking is one of the most enjoyable and accessible parts of the game for a new player. it probably generates more subs than it costs. If you think so then u have to be a short brained...
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:13:21 - [182] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. except ganking is one of the most enjoyable and accessible parts of the game for a new player. it probably generates more subs than it costs. If you think so then u have to be a short brained... what part isn't true? hell when it comes to subscriptions ccp showed that ppl that get ganked are more likely too BLOPS Hauler
Raymond Limyuri Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:28:36 - [183] - Quote Quote: CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Ganking is a fundamental part of this game, and nerfing it would make it go away. Burn Jita is happening and will happen again, the rationale behind it isn't "getting goods", or stealing loot. it is "fun". The success of burn jita is determined by "how many billions were destroyed", screw the loot. This game is a sandbox to the extent that kill mails one of the most important aspects of the game. Moreover, ganking isn't always as active as when burn Jita is happening, so only idiots would make themselves targets by AFK-mining and sitting on gates thinking that highsec is safe. Have fun. Die. Repeat. Get over it.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 34	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:49:34 - [184] - Quote It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :)
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5305	Posted - 2017.02.26 11:53:34 - [185] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :) Got any proof that everyone who disagrees with you is a ganker, or are you just making the accusation because you have no actual answer to them?
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 34	Posted - 2017.02.26 12:21:24 - [186] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :) Got any proof that everyone who disagrees with you is a ganker, or are you just making the accusation because you have no actual answer to them? Killboard is "my proof"
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5305	Posted - 2017.02.26 12:24:37 - [187] - Quote Well, I disagree with you entirely. Ganking is, if anything, overly nerfed at the moment. Feel free to check my killboard before you call me a ganker too!
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 34	Posted - 2017.02.26 12:48:00 - [188] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Well, I disagree with you entirely. Ganking is, if anything, overly nerfed at the moment. Feel free to check my killboard before you call me a ganker too! Nerfed? WTF Oo we play diff. games then; And as you wish but u have to be trolling: He is not a ganger
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27814	Posted - 2017.02.26 13:01:58 - [189] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Well, I disagree with you entirely. Ganking is, if anything, overly nerfed at the moment. Feel free to check my killboard before you call me a ganker too! Nerfed? WTF Oo we play diff. games then; And as you wish but u have to be trolling: He is not a ganger Even more no ganger here You're not too bright are you? They are not their corp, their corp is not them I disagree with you too, have fun trying to paint me as a ganker. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 13:32:40 - [190] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :) Got any proof that everyone who disagrees with you is a ganker, or are you just making the accusation because you have no actual answer to them? Killboard is "my proof" okay show me just how much of a ganker i am then. i think you will find i have been ganked far more than i have ganked BLOPS Hauler

Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 13:35:04 - [191] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They are not their corp, their corp is not them i must disagree with you everything you do reflects on your corp everything your corp does reflects on you should you chose to associate yourself with some one you are guilty of their sins BLOPS Hauler
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27814	Posted - 2017.02.26 13:42:20 - [192] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They are not their corp, their corp is not them i must disagree with you everything you do reflects on your corp everything your corp does reflects on you should you chose to associate yourself with some one you are guilty of their sins heh, true enough, associate with pirates get called a pirate. The point I was making is that he accused Danika personally of being a ganker, and then used Goonwaffes killboard to "prove" it, probably because Danika's killboard didn't tally with with his preconceptions about the people who disagree with him In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 13:51:26 - [193] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They are not their corp, their corp is not them i must disagree with you everything you do reflects on your corp everything your corp does reflects on you should you chose to associate yourself with some one you are guilty of their sins heh, true enough, associate with pirates, get called a pirate. The point I was making is that he accused Danika personally of being a ganker, and then used Goonwaffes killboard to "prove" it, probably because Danika's killboard didn't tally with with his preconceptions about the people who disagree with him lol i'll let him have it there are plenty of people in this thread who are even in alliances and corps that he's not going to be able to point to. BLOPS Hauler
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5306	Posted - 2017.02.26 14:19:12 - [194] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Well, I disagree with you entirely. Ganking is, if anything, overly nerfed at the moment. Feel free to check my killboard before you call me a ganker too! Nerfed? WTF Oo we play diff. games then; And as you wish but u have to be trolling: He is not a ganger Even more no ganger here There are 3,000 people in Goonwaffe, and 25,000 people in Goonswarm federation. Linking those killboards does nothing to show that I am a ganker. You can find evidence of people in the corp or the alliance doing literally everything that is possible to do in this game and then some. Doesn't mean everyone does it. While I am -8, that's because I do not think lowsec means I should avoid shooting the pod. All of the anti ganking ideas in this thread would lock me out of highsec too, and none have even attempted to justify that. Can you? Please, post one single buff that ganking has received in the last five years.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 34	Posted - 2017.02.26 15:02:40 - [195] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Well, I disagree with you entirely. Ganking is, if anything, overly nerfed at the moment. Feel free to check my killboard before you call me a ganker too! Nerfed? WTF Oo we play diff. games then; And as you wish but u have to be trolling: He is not a ganger Even more no ganger here You're not too bright are you? They are not their corp, their corp is not them I disagree with you too, have fun trying to paint me as a ganker. I give no **** - if you "live" in corp which is known from ganking others - for me you are ganger. thats all;
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27816	Posted - 2017.02.26 15:19:51 - [196] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: I give no **** - if you "live" in corp which is known from ganking others - for me you are ganger. thats all; I have a really big brush that can be used to apply tar. I also have a 360-¦ excavator that can be used to make the hole you're digging for yourself even bigger. Both are available to hire at reasonable rates. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Jevatoxa Amandla Legion 67	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:03:07 - [197] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :) Nope. I'm not a ganker, but I believe ganking is fine. It adds an element of danger to Eve that keeps the game unique among MMOs. Ganking also stops multi-boxing AFK bots from stripping belt after belt and messing up the economy. Countering gankers is ridiculously easy, but it requires you to engage with the Eve community and keep your wits about you. And to be at your keyboard. Hell, gankers are fine killboard-padding material if you play the game right; easy kills and an easy source of isk via the bounties and loot from the wrecks. You have all the tools at your disposal to avoid being ganked; I don't see what the problem is.
elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 56	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:05:46 - [198] - Quote This topic is going to places
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:36:35 - [199] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: I give no **** - if you "live" in corp which is known from ganking others - for me you are ganger. thats all; I have a really big brush that can be used to apply tar. I also have a 360-¦ excavator that can be used to make the hole you're digging for yourself even bigger. Both are available to hire at reasonable rates. love how he didn't go to show how you and i were gankers lol BLOPS Hauler
Andrew Xadi Easy Co. Get Off My Lawn 13	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:38:23 - [200] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. ok, so tell me please what would stop me from having an omega account instead of alpha and keep biomassing "toons" or whatever you call characters?

Dolorous Tremmens Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation 207	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:00:22 - [201] - Quote Andrew Xadi wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. ok, so tell me please what would stop me from having an omega account instead of alpha and keep biomassing "toons" or whatever you call characters? To answer your oft repeated question: Terms of service and the desire to continue playing eve. The door is that way, don't let anyone stop you from leaving. The door will not slap your butt on the way out, the game could care less. edit: Obligatory can i have your stuff? Get some Eve. Make it yours.**
padraig animal Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:15:21 - [202] - Quote Dolorous Tremmens wrote: Andrew Xadi wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. ok, so tell me please what would stop me from having an omega account instead of alpha and keep biomassing "toons" or whatever you call characters? To answer your oft repeated question: Terms of service and the desire to continue playing eve. The door is that way, don't let anyone stop you from leaving. The door will not slap your butt on the way out, the game could care less. **edit: Obligatory can i have your stuff? If you get his stuff can i have his sp ? ......
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:49:25 - [203] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? Because in all likelihood it will fail miserably to change anything because gankers will adapt and keep on ganking. This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking. Gankers get nerfed Gankers adapt. People still explode and whine on the forums about it. Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult. Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf. Now your turn to answer a question. I wrote: Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all? How is that anywhere near balanced? It seems that you don't understand what i'm talking about here. I haven't been talking anything about how the gankers will adapt and all of that. All i have said is that the more they gank, the more Concord will hunt after the actual ganker, like in real life if you goes around stealing stuffs. The more you streal, the more the police will be on your ass busting you. And to the other things you said. The reason i want ganking to be harder is because being a criminal is something you are not supposed to be, specially not all the time without massive consequences. If you are a criminal in real life, you wont be able to do those crimes for many times before you are busted by the police anyways where you wont be able to do those crimes for a long time again. And why should the gankers have it more easy to do ganking over the freighter pilots doing freighter runs in high sec? Again, all that is needed to stop a whole freighter run is a single Machariel. Is that fair towards the freighter pilots when the others peoples have no direct tools to stop a gank fest to stop? Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5308	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:57:38 - [204] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec?
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:00:24 - [205] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: It's so funny as mostly gangers speak in this thread as "Ganking is fine" :) Then check mine. Ganking is fine and im a miner and freighter pilot. In fact ganking needs a buff. I think its funny though, the only people who want ganking to be nerfed are carebears that don't know mechanics or have to lie to try and make a point. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18695	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:03:08 - [206] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? Because in all likelihood it will fail miserably to change anything because gankers will adapt and keep on ganking. This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking. Gankers get nerfed Gankers adapt. People still explode and whine on the forums about it. Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult. Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf. Now your turn to answer a question. I wrote: Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all? How is that anywhere near balanced? It seems that you don't understand what i'm talking about here. I haven't been talking anything about how the gankers will adapt and all of that. All i have said is that the more they gank, the more Concord will hunt after the actual ganker, like in real life if you goes around stealing stuffs. The more you streal, the more the police will be on your ass busting you. And to the other things you said. The reason i want ganking to be harder is because being a criminal is something you are not supposed to be, specially not all the time without massive consequences. If you are a criminal in real life, you wont be able to do those crimes for many times before you are busted by the police anyways where you wont be able to do those crimes for a long time again. And why should the gankers have it more easy to do ganking over the freighter pilots doing freighter runs in high sec? Again, all that is needed to stop a whole freighter run is a single Machariel. Is that fair towards the freighter pilots when the others peoples have no direct tools to stop a gank fest to stop? Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? A single ship with webs will get a freighter into warp so fast it will warp backwards.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:12:05 - [207] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But that is the point. Ganking an empty freighter happens, but rarely, aside from events like Burn Jita. Like i have said, the ganking in it self are fine. What's not fine are the consequences the gankers gets after a gank. The consequences are WAAAAAAAY to little / small over what it really should be. It's that simple. Teckos Pech wrote: Well, in the U.S. you can travel with any amount of money. Of course, if the police stop you they could take it via civil asset forfeiture. So, you arenGÇÖt even safe from them. Maybe CONCORD should start ganking the odd overstuffed freighter and call it civil asset forfeiture. BTW, with civil asset forfeiture law enforcement must merely suspect wrong doing, not actually charge you with a crime. Well, there are many other countries than USA out there though. And now i'm not talking about walking around with 100.000 dollars or something like that. I'm talking about maybe 2000-3000 dollars that is considered ALOT for most normal peoples. So yes, you should be able to walk around with that amount of money. However, if you get robbed or something, then the police will find those guys and punish them hard for stealing my money. And if they are even continuing to steal money from others after they are released the first time for stealing, then their punishment will be even harder. That's what i want to see in EVE. I want to see the criminals get punished harder and harder the more crimes they do. This is again a normal thing to do towards criminals in humans nature. So i don't see why this can't be in EVE. Teckos Pech wrote: Use local for the love of God. Set known ganking organizations red. Use webs. Tank your freighter. DonGÇÖt put too much value in it. There are plenty of idiots out there you just have to be smarter than them. Let the gankers eat them while you sail on through. Did you even bother to read what i said? I said that one moment the local can be clear for the Freighter pilot to jump in, but the next moment after he have jumped in, there can be a Machariel arriving at the gate that will ruin the Freighter polits day. Not only that, but Destroyers are fast and can take several jumps from the system where the Freighter is and arrive on the Freighter in no time. So how many Machariels does the Freighter pilot have to set red and how many alts do the Freighter pilot needs to be able to scout himself several jumps ahead to avoid getting caught be some gankers who can again, take several jumps in no time in Destroyers and arrive on the Freighter before the Freighter even have been able to enter warp? Basicly, the Freighter pilots will have a hard time doing their business with just the Freighter alone, while you gankers can just freely fart around shooting whatever you want, without any problrms or anything? And you are suprised to see peoples reacting to the stupid system that is now that wont punish players harder and harder the more crimes they do? Teckos Pech wrote: Yes, at this point you have basically screwed up several times. 1. Too much stuff in your cargo hold. 2. No scout. 3. No webs. 4. You probably anti-tanked your freighter. 5. You are almost surely going to die. You should have not done everything wrong in 1-4. 1. I'm again not against getting ganked for traveling with to much stuffs in the cargohold. Read what i'm talking about. 2. One scout is not going to be enough for a Freighter pilot anyways as he will need to be scouting several systems in advance for the Freighter pilot to make sure it's ok. So that again, is just stupid. 3. Why should he need webs on an alt to be able to do his business? 4. You shouldn't have to tank your freighter as a normal practice. If you know you are going to low sec or any other areas that are SUPPOSED to be dangerous, then it might be something else. 5. And as you are so sure to die, then i don't see the problem with a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do because the Freighter pilots have such high chance of dying without having to use a billion alts and stuffs. So again. Give EVE a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do, because that's freaking logic. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:13:11 - [208] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ Omg. First, not a gank. Its a gatecamp. Second, those weren't bp originals as zkill suggests. Everyone is a copy but the age of the kill mail must be screwing up zkill. It was less than one bil at time of loss. Third, i was a stupid nub. Less than a year old trying to leave null without access to alliance logistics cause i quit too soon. Difference between me and you? When i lost that ship i didn't come whining to the forums that the game should change to let me be stupid. I learned my lesson. I adapted. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:15:56 - [209] - Quote baltec1 wrote: A single ship with webs will get a freighter into warp so fast it will warp backwards. And why should a Freighter pilot be in need of an alt or others to be able to fly around? As i have said a million times. I'm not against you guys ganking freighters and that. I'm against the lame system against criminals in EVE that is in EVE now. EVE needs a new system that takes into account on how much a criminal does ganking or crimes where the Concord will be harder and harder the more crimes you do. Sure, you can gank 3 freighters a day, but you will have issues later to do anything in high sec for one day then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:20:20 - [210] - Quote Freighters are corp level assets like other capitals. They aren't meant to be flown solo. You don't HAVE to use an escort but when you can ignore every ganker at the expense of a frigate with a couple of webs, why wouldn't you? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:22:43 - [211] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? Hint. A fast locking ship on a gate wont stop the actual ganking. If some gankers can force the Freighter or any other ships to be killed, then there should be a system where the Freighter pilot / others pilots also should have more power on their hands where the Concord will punish the gankers harder and harder the more they do their crimes. Why should everyone else be totally defenseless against ganking that will happen every 15 minutes when the gankers have the luxury of doing the crimes with a success rate of 99% where they can't be stopped? Don't you think there should be more consequences for the criminals this way when the non-gankers are so defenseless against being ganked? Daichi Yamato wrote: Freighters are corp level assets like other capitals. They aren't meant to be flown solo. You don't HAVE to use an escort but when you can ignore every ganker at the expense of a frigate with a couple of webs, why wouldn't you? I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:30:38 - [212] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5308	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:32:15 - [213] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hint. A fast locking ship on a gate wont stop the actual ganking. If some gankers can force the Freighter or any other ships to be killed, then there should be a system where the Freighter pilot / others pilots also should have more power on their hands where the Concord will punish the gankers harder and harder the more they do their crimes. Why should everyone else be totally defenseless against ganking that will happen every 15 minutes when the gankers have the luxury of doing the crimes with a success rate of 99% where they can't be stopped? Don't you think there should be more consequences for the criminals this way when the non-gankers are so defenseless against being ganked? Please explain how killing a ganker en route (or just holding him in place while the facpo do it for you) doesn't save a freighter. Please explain how jamming a ganker doesn't stop them ganking. Please explain how shooting a ganker in the face before concord show up doesn't save a freighter. Please explain why a solo freighter pilot with zero precautions taken and 5bil in their hold should be immune to the specific, targeted and organised actions of two dozen other players. Please explain how being free to engage anywhere by anyone any time is not a penalty. Please explain why being chased through highsec by facpo who WILL kill you if you're slow to warp is not a penalty. Please explain, exactly, how anyone is defenceless, how gankers cannot be stopped, how freighter pilots have no options and how making highsec an awful lot safer for people who aren't even at thier keyboards is good for the game. In short, no, I do not think there need to be extra penalties for gankers. I think there need to be extra penalties for lazy and/or stupid freighter pilots who think they are invincible because they are in highsec. Quote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. I know of people who are out in thier Nyx alone because they are in one man corps. Doesn't make a super any less of a corporate asset now, does it.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:32:40 - [214] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:37:46 - [215] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Please explain how killing a ganker en route (or just holding him in place while the facpo do it for you) doesn't save a freighter. Please explain how jamming a ganker doesn't stop them ganking. Please explain how shooting a ganker in the face before concord show up doesn't save a freighter. Please explain why a solo freighter pilot with zero precautions taken and 5bil in their hold should be immune to the specific, targeted and organised actions of two dozen other players. Please explain how being free to engage anywhere by anyone any time is not a penalty. Please explain why being chased through highsec by facpo who WILL kill you if you're slow to warp is not a penalty. Please explain, exactly, how anyone is defenceless, how gankers cannot be stopped, how freighter pilots have no options and how making highsec an awful lot safer for people who aren't even at thier keyboards is good for the game. In short, no, I do not think there need to be extra penalties for gankers. I think there need to be extra penalties for lazy and/or stupid freighter pilots who think they are invincible because they are in highsec. The issue here that you don't seems to figure out is that a single ganker is not the problem here. The problem is when there are like 100+ gankers on one freighter or whatever. That is impossible to stop. So why should Concord be so friendly against those gankers when there is no ways to stop a gank in that scale? And why shouldn't Concord punish criminals harder and harder? You are a criminal after all and not a wonderboy. Danika Princip wrote: I know of people who are out in thier Nyx alone because they are in one man corps. Doesn't make a super any less of a corporate asset now, does it. A Nyx can't enter high sec. Yes, we are talking about Concord and high sec here here if you haven't figured that out yet. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5308	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:45:21 - [216] - Quote 100+ gankers on one freighter happens during burn jita events. Events which happen maybe twice a year, and are talked about for months in advance. Which there are warnings about all over the place, and which the freighter pilots are choosing to ignore. (And which involve frankly ludicrous amounts of work from the people doing the organising, but I'm sure you don't care about that either.) As has been said hundreds of times now, you can't patch stupid. Why should concord be so friendly to freighter pilots who can't be bothered to engage with the game or take any kind of precaution whatsoever? Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:54:40 - [217] - Quote Raymond Limyuri wrote: Quote: CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Ganking is a fundamental part of this game, and nerfing it would make it go away. Burn Jita is happening and will happen again, the rationale behind it isn't "getting goods", or stealing loot. it is "fun". The success of burn jita is determined by "how many billions were destroyed", screw the loot. This game is a sandbox to the extent that kill mails are given a lot of value. Moreover, ganking isn't always as active as when burn Jita is happening, so only idiots would make themselves targets by AFK-mining and sitting on gates thinking that highsec is safe. Have fun. Die. Repeat. Get over it. I don't think nerfing it would necessarily make it die, although it that is a possibility. But I largely agree with your point it is a fundamental part of the game because of the core aspect of the game, "If I accept the consequences of shooting you, I can shoot you...anywhere in game." The OP and his few supporters want to ratchet up the consequences. That has been the path CCP has been on. CONCORD getting tougher. Fine not much happened. CONCORD got faster. CONCORD locked people in place as soon as they engaged in illegal aggression. Insurance was removed for suicide ganking. Along with it was the increase in war dec costs. And then the removal of the watchlist, another nerf to wardecs.* All the changes to CONCORD and ganking have lead to a rise in professional ganking groups like Miniluv and CODE. Trying to catch those guys is now work. It is work because they have perfected their profession. And now they mostly gank for profit, and there are plenty of fools to give them that profit. As for war decs those have been reduced to camping trade hubs and roaming the trade lanes along with mass wardecs by big war deccing alliances. Now people complain quite regularly about that too. My response to both those whining about suicide ganking and war decs. You idiots made your bed now lie in it. You whined and complained and CCP reacted "in your favor" or so you thought. Now you got the result. Did you expect the suicide gankers and war deccing alliances to NOT adapt? Well then you were stupid. *Yes, yes, yes I know! Some BadGäó is going to come along and say, they removed the watchlist becuase..."Blah, blah, blah....". I know. But it was still a nerf to targeted war decs. I have always maintained that if you change mechanics to do X but also screw Y then that is likely a bad change. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 35	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:56:29 - [218] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Cz u cant drop a hundred subcaps on a titan in high sec?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:59:42 - [219] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? Or gank the bumping mach. Those ships tend not to have big tanks, they are fit for speed and agility vs. tank. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:00:24 - [220] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: 100+ gankers on one freighter happens during burn jita events. Events which happen maybe twice a year, and are talked about for months in advance. Which there are warnings about all over the place, and which the freighter pilots are choosing to ignore. (And which involve frankly ludicrous amounts of work from the people doing the organising, but I'm sure you don't care about that either.) As has been said hundreds of times now, you can't patch stupid. Why should concord be so friendly to freighter pilots who can't be bothered to engage with the game or take any kind of precaution whatsoever? Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Still doesn't matter. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal no matter what the circumstances are. And newsflash. We are still talking about what happens in high sec and how Concord is. So i'm not sure why you are dragging in Titans into the discussion when Titans can't enter high sec? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5309	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:01:07 - [221] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Cz u cant drop a hundred subcaps on a titan in high sec? And highsec should be completely different from every other kind of space in this respect because...? And a solo pilot should be immune to one hundred plus people who want to kill them because...? NightmareX wrote: Still doesn't matter. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal no matter what the circumstances are. And newsflash. We are still talking about what happens in high sec and how Concord is. So i'm not sure why you are dragging in Titans into the discussion when Titans can't enter high sec? They are. they lose the ship regardless of the success or failure of the gank. And titans are being used because they are a big combat ship that dies to one hundred small combat ships. Why should a big non combat ship be immune to a hundred small combat ships?
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:09:01 - [222] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:10:49 - [223] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:20:58 - [224] - Quote 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:28:32 - [225] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But that is the point. Ganking an empty freighter happens, but rarely, aside from events like Burn Jita. Like i have said, the ganking in it self are fine. What's not fine are the consequences the gankers gets after a gank. The consequences are WAAAAAAAY to little / small over what it really should be. It's that simple. Actually I donGÇÖt think so. The thing is that gankers figured out a way for each pilot to lose very little individually and they find targets where the expected payoff is large. The GÇ£too littleGÇ¥ is GÇ£too littleGÇ¥ because some idiot decided to offer to GÇ£pay them too muchGÇ¥ by overloading his freighter. Why should the ganker get large consequences whereas the fool freighter pilot not face consequences for his incredibly stupid behavior? That point you never answer. See, there is no balance issue here because you have prudent players on one hand (suicide gankers) and an imprudent player on the other (the freighter pilot). That is not a balance issue, IMO. See CCP looks at balance for in game items such as ships and their respective bonuses. Or modules and their in game effects. CCP did balance passes years ago on things like sensor damps, for example. At the time there were no stacking penalties. So CCP implemented stacking penalties and not just on sensor damps, but on most modules like it. CCP also rebalanced titans when people were fitting titans so they could shout frigates. But CCP does not try and GÇ£fix stupidGÇ¥ when it comes to players actions. And in fact it is really hard too. I bet if CCP implemented this rule: If you put more than 1.5 billion ISK worth of cargo in your freighter you wonGÇÖt be allowed to undock. The raging on the forums would be unlike anything we have seen before. Some people would be raging because they have figured out how to safely move an overloaded freighter, and others would be raging because they are upset that somebody is trying to protect them from their own stupidity. So, why should freighter pilots be, at least in part, shielded from the consequences of their own foolish actions? I know you keep saying, you donGÇÖt have a problem with ganking, but you clearly want to nerf it, so you do have a problem with it. And indirectly youGÇÖll provide a buff to the imprudent and even downright stupid freighter pilots who are usually the victims of suicide ganking. Oh, and here is another thing. These professional groups, they are good at adapting, especially Goons. Back in the day, they used to run Sec Status Safaris. TheyGÇÖd have a designated route where a fleet in stealth bombers would run through, shoot a high value rat, move on to the next system. TheyGÇÖd do this until peopleGÇÖs sec status was GÇ£repairedGÇ¥. Implement this change and Goons might reinstitute the Sec Status Safaris, thus mitigating or even eliminating the effect of this change. Goons might also look for GÇ£affiliatesGÇ¥ for Miniluv--i.e. people outside their coalition. One thing about Goons is they are very good at their organizational structure. And where would we be with this...the OP back here whining his pathetic ass off that Goons are ganking 24/7 just like they were before the change. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:43:10 - [226] - Quote NightmareX wrote: 1. I'm again not against getting ganked for traveling with to much stuffs in the cargohold. Read what i'm talking about. 2. One scout is not going to be enough for a Freighter pilot anyways as he will need to be scouting several systems in advance for the Freighter pilot to make sure it's ok. So that again, is just stupid. 3. Why should he need webs on an alt to be able to do his business? 4. You shouldn't have to tank your freighter as a normal practice. If you know you are going to low sec or any other areas that are SUPPOSED to be dangerous, then it might be something else. 5. And as you are so sure to die, then i don't see the problem with a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do because the Freighter pilots have such high chance of dying without having to use a billion alts and stuffs. So again. Give EVE a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do, because that's freaking logic. You quite clearly have an issue with ganking. You should stop claiming you do because you want to nerf it. One scout can make a world of difference. And read what I wrote, set active ganking organizations red. TheyGÇÖll show up in local. If you start seeing alot of them, dock up. If you know of individual macherial pilots, yes set them red, but yes they tend to sit in NPC corps. And if you do start to build a listGÇª.why not make it publicly available. As for webbers, why not use all the tools you can to get the job done quickly and safely? You are not entitled to play this game as if other players did not exist. If you anti-tank your freighter you should then lower how much you carry in terms of ISK value. Again, you are not playing this game as if other players did not also play it as well. You are almost surely going to die if you end up getting bumped--i.e. you screwed up several times. YOU need to learn to adapt to the changing conditions of the game vs. coming here and stamping your foot demanding changes that are antithetical to the nature of the game. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:44:24 - [227] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:47:42 - [228] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Yeah i said relatively safe which means you are not 100% safe, but should still be pretty safe in high sec. And that means safe enough to not getting ganked over and over from the same type of crime while the criminals isn't getting punished any harder the more crimes they do. But you aren't really being treated like a criminal if you aren't getting any harder consequences / penalties if you still can just do the same crime over and over without getting it harder to do the crimes you do each days. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:52:58 - [229] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? So flying around with a freighter is suddenly foolish just because they can't use a billion alts to scout several systems ahead of potential bumping Machariels that doesn't really have to be a bumping Machariel and to scout for some baddies that can travel from several jumps out and reach the targeted freighter before the freighter can warp out anyways? How much work do you expect a freighter pilot to do to make sure he can fly around relatively safe without getting ganked all the time? When you as a ganker can fly around in high sec suiciding others that easily, then the freighter pilots should be able to do their job as easily that way to. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:52:59 - [230] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Okay, lets consider this.... Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. In looking at their annual report for 2015 we find this little tidbit of information: Quote: During 2015 Red Frog Freight failed 382 contracts, representing about 0.27% of all contracts. The percentage of failed contracts is up by 145% as compared to 2014 when the percent failed was 0.11%. So much less than 1% of the contracts are failed, and this includes failures for all reasons. But letGÇÖs assume it is all due to ganking. This means that for every RFF freighter that is ganked, 370 run around doing their business just fineGÇª.so long as the pilot is prudent. Why does suicide ganking need another nerf and why does being an idiot freighter pilot need a buff? BTW, in looking at their annual report there is a load of depressing statistics in there, but I bet the OP and NightmareX won't be able to figure out what I'm talking about. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:55:25 - [231] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? So flying around with a freighter is suddenly foolish just because they can't use a billion alts to scout several systems ahead of potential bumping Machariels that doesn't really have to be a bumping Machariel and to scout for some baddies that can travel from several jumps out and reach the targeted freighter before the freighter can warp out? How much work do you expect a freighter pilot to do to make sure he can fly around relatively safe? When you as a ganker can fly around in high sec suiciding others that easily, then the freighter pilots should be able to do their job as easily that way to. No. I did not write that. I wrote that using a freighter foolishly should not be protected. Using a freighter prudently is not a problem. Thing is people often want to use it foolishly. Just it can hold 32.5 billion in nocxium means you should haul 32.5 billion in nocxium. At least not without possible repercussions. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:56:42 - [232] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Yeah i said relatively safe which means you are not 100% safe, but should still be pretty safe in high sec. And that means safe enough to not getting ganked over and over from the same type of crime while the criminals isn't getting punished any harder the more crimes they do. But you aren't really being treated like a criminal if you aren't getting any harder consequences / penalties if you still can just do the same crime over and over without getting it harder to do the crimes you do each days. The RFF numbers indicate a prudent freighter pilot IS relatively safe. It suggests that your probability of getting ganked is less than or equal to 0.0027 or 0.27%. How much safer do you need it to be? Edit: The chances of not getting ganked are 0.9973 or 99.73%. WITF more do you want? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:06:01 - [233] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? And here lies the problem of this entire post. Highsec has faction police who cant catch their criminal targets, making them a useless feature of the game. Make it so that these faction police catch their targets in X amount of time (where X depends on the players security status) and we have balanced out ganking mechanics vastly.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:09:38 - [234] - Quote Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:10:12 - [235] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. except ganking is one of the most enjoyable and accessible parts of the game for a new player. it probably generates more subs than it costs. Than pay for it. The point of having a free version it to be able to do the most basic tasks, not enjoy the game to its fullest extent.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:11:58 - [236] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:13:00 - [237] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:13:43 - [238] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? And here lies the problem of this entire post. Highsec has faction police who cant catch their criminal targets, making them a useless feature of the game. Make it so that these faction police catch their targets in X amount of time (where X depends on the players security status) and we have balanced out ganking mechanics vastly. No, it forces the suicide gankers and all low sec status players into smaller faster ships...which typically do less DPS. So they either use lots of ships, or switch over to more expensive ships. Destroyers or stealth bombers. Some gank in battle cruisers such as the talos, but I bet you'll find those guys have a sec status that lets them do it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:14:34 - [239] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed. They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:15:20 - [240] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. And players can shoot you too, and they can be much faster than the FacPo. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:16:33 - [241] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed. They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion. -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place. They have proven that they cant be trusted.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:18:35 - [242] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status. How do they not operate correctly? they will kill you if they catch you. I am -8.4. I am not a ganker. Explain why you think I should not be able to cross highsec.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27824	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:20:16 - [243] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:21:08 - [244] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed. They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion. -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place. They have proven that they cant be trusted. Sure they do. They need to buy stuff too. Or are you suggesting they must have alts? Most of the -10 fly through HS in fast moving ships or their pod--i.e. in this instance they are of little threat and can be shot by both FacPo and players. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:23:08 - [245] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? Yup. Looking like it. Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract). "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:23:23 - [246] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that. But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think. You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb... Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/ Omg. First, not a gank. Its a gatecamp. Second, those weren't bp originals as zkill suggests. Everyone is a copy but the age of the kill mail must be screwing up zkill. It was less than one bil at time of loss. Third, i was a stupid nub. Less than a year old trying to leave null without access to alliance logistics cause i quit too soon. Difference between me and you? When i lost that ship i didn't come whining to the forums that the game should change to let me be stupid. I learned my lesson. I adapted. Should have had a second account so you could scout properly... Either way, you messed up hard.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:24:56 - [247] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? Yup. Looking like it. Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract). Because he is still performing criminal activities. If you dont want the security status hit, you should really be flying in null. If you want to operate in lowsec, join faction warfare and dont be a pirate.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:28:23 - [248] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? Yup. Looking like it. Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract). Because he is still performing criminal activities. If you dont want the security status hit, you should really be flying in null. If you want to operate in lowsec, join faction warfare and dont be a pirate. The hypocrisy is hilarious. A person decides to be a LS pirate, confines their activities to LS, but on occasion needs to move through HS and is no threat to people in HS, and is fact has to worry about not only the FacPO, but every player with a gun or drones on their ship....and they aren't allowed to be in HS. Dude you crack me up. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:28:25 - [249] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. If you want to be allowed in highsec again in something other than a pod or shuttle, then fix your security status.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3779	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:30:33 - [250] - Quote And there THAT is. You don't want outlaws in hi-sec at all. Not gonna happen. Quote: Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. -CCP Falcon EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:32:42 - [251] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:33:14 - [252] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: And there THAT is. You don't want outlaws in hi-sec at all. Not gonna happen. Quote: Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. -CCP Falcon There is a big difference between locking them out and requiring them to repair their security status to operate effectively as a highsec criminal. The OP refers to that latter of the two only.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:34:53 - [253] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor. because you being a criminal have handed over that right in the past. Repair your security status (say your sorry) and you get those privileges back.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:44:57 - [254] - Quote Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:46:02 - [255] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor. Where it commit criminal acts does not matter. Its still criminal in lowsec, you just dont get wrecked by concord for it.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:47:15 - [256] - Quote Please explain how the game is improved by locking me out of highsec for podding some guys in lowsec.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 380	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:50:42 - [257] - Quote By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:53:19 - [258] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status. How do they not operate correctly? they will kill you if they catch you. I am -8.4. I am not a ganker. Explain why you think I should not be able to cross highsec. because you are -8.4 ... you have given up that privilege by performing criminally in lowsec. If you would have blown up **** in null then your security status would still be positive and you could operate freely in highsec. This change benefits so many things, it pushes more people into nullsec, leaving only those who choose to be real pirates in lowsec. Lowsec is for faction warfare and pirates who dont care to be in highsec with their criminal characters. It also still allows ganking in highsec and for career gankers, it requires them to put in more effort to make sure their security status is always in check. If you take 50bil in a day, you can afford the tags to repair your corpmates security status so that you stay below phase 2 (where you get instantly wrecked when you come to a station or gate in something that doesnt instant warp).
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3779	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:54:13 - [259] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. lol, even if this wasnt a lie, Its one in thousands that travel everyday. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:55:39 - [260] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. ...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment.

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:56:45 - [261] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: because you are -8.4 ... you have given up that privilege by performing criminally in lowsec. If you would have blown up **** in null then your security status would still be positive and you could operate freely in highsec. This change benefits so many things, it pushes more people into nullsec, leaving only those who choose to be real pirates in lowsec. Lowsec is for faction warfare and pirates who dont care to be in highsec with their criminal characters. It also still allows ganking in highsec and for career gankers, it requires them to put in more effort to make sure their security status is always in check. If you take 50bil in a day, you can afford the tags to repair your corpmates security status so that you stay below phase 2 (where you get instantly wrecked when you come to a station or gate in something that doesnt instant warp). ...I asked how it would improve the game, not what your frankly bizarre justification for the change was. lowsec is not only for faction warfare. lowsec is for PVP. Nullsec is for PVP. highsec is for PVP. Why are you trying to lock players into only one area of space and claiming it will do anything but drive people out of the game entirely?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:57:13 - [262] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. lol, even if this wasnt a lie, Its one in thousands that travel everyday. Stop trying to degrade just how many targets goons take down out of Jita on the daily because faction police are donut eating pussies.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:58:33 - [263] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: because you are -8.4 ... you have given up that privilege by performing criminally in lowsec. If you would have blown up **** in null then your security status would still be positive and you could operate freely in highsec. This change benefits so many things, it pushes more people into nullsec, leaving only those who choose to be real pirates in lowsec. Lowsec is for faction warfare and pirates who dont care to be in highsec with their criminal characters. It also still allows ganking in highsec and for career gankers, it requires them to put in more effort to make sure their security status is always in check. If you take 50bil in a day, you can afford the tags to repair your corpmates security status so that you stay below phase 2 (where you get instantly wrecked when you come to a station or gate in something that doesnt instant warp). ...I asked how it would improve the game, not what your frankly bizarre justification for the change was. lowsec is not only for faction warfare. lowsec is for PVP. Nullsec is for PVP. highsec is for PVP. Why are you trying to lock players into only one area of space and claiming it will do anything but drive people out of the game entirely? yeah, and some of those come with a security hit for a reason. Im not locking anyone into anything. You do that to yourself by operating in the wrong space. I know you are afraid of null, but its ok its not as bad as you think.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3779	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:00:59 - [264] - Quote You vastly underestimate how many freighters pass through jita safely. You're talking about hundreds PER freighter ganked. Thats what we've been trying to tell you all this time. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:01:21 - [265] - Quote Yes. They do. So why does me podding a guy in lowsec mean I should not be allowed in highsec? I already face a lot of restrictions on what I can actually DO there, so why the hell should I be locked out entirely?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:03:58 - [266] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. lol, even if this wasnt a lie, Its one in thousands that travel everyday. How is it so hard for you to watch my twitch videos and see that I might just know what Im talking about in terms of ganking and what goes on daily. I steal from these dudes, my corp steals from these dudes. Thats what we do!!
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 380	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:06:48 - [267] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. ...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment. Sure there is! No law abiding person would have a reason to go to low or nullsec, so they should be required to first go criminal before they are kicked out of highsec. It's just as arbitrary and stupid as your reasoning for keeping criminals out of highsec Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:07:30 - [268] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Yes. They do. So why does me podding a guy in lowsec mean I should not be allowed in highsec? I already face a lot of restrictions on what I can actually DO there, so why the hell should I be locked out entirely? because the game says that its not ok to pod guys in lowsec, but you do it anyways and then take a ssecurity hit for it. No ones fault but your own if you want to be a pirate in lowsec and not follow security status rules.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:08:46 - [269] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. ...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment. Sure there is! No law abiding person would have a reason to go to low or nullsec, so they should be required to first go criminal before they are kicked out of highsec. It's just as arbitrary and stupid as your reasoning for keeping criminals out of highsec Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:12:25 - [270] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities I'm not convinced you can do FW without going pirate. Actually you can't do any of those things in low without someone trying to shoot, you, which is going to end with you shooting first and going outlaw in short order.

Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3779	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:12:37 - [271] - Quote Except you dont. You started this thread without knowing the mechanics. You think witnessing a freighter die everyday makes you an expert on ganking. But you're clearly not, and you are willfully ignoring that hundreds, if not thousands, of freighters pass by without so much as a shot being made. You don't know what you're talking about. You lie. You ignore what we are trying to tell you. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 380	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:13:29 - [272] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. ...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment. Sure there is! No law abiding person would have a reason to go to low or nullsec, so they should be required to first go criminal before they are kicked out of highsec. It's just as arbitrary and stupid as your reasoning for keeping criminals out of highsec Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities And the criminals have plenty of legal things to do in highsec. Trading, research, manufacturing for example. Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27825	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:15:41 - [273] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: How is it so hard for you to watch my twitch videos and see that I might just know what Im talking about in terms of ganking and what goes on daily. I steal from these dudes, my corp steals from these dudes. Thats what we do!! When you spout ignorance about how crimewatch applies to the people you leech off of, you cant expect us to take this statement seriously. The only thing that your videos prove is that you're prepared to loot a wreck and go suspect for it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:19:57 - [274] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities I'm not convinced you can do FW without going pirate. Actually you can't do any of those things in low without someone trying to shoot, you, which is going to end with you shooting first and going outlaw in short order. Then learn to play better. Setup more bookmarks to get out of tight spots. Watch my twitch videos. I've lived in lowsec for the last 2 years and still have a positive security status.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:21:06 - [275] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: How is it so hard for you to watch my twitch videos and see that I might just know what Im talking about in terms of ganking and what goes on daily. I steal from these dudes, my corp steals from these dudes. Thats what we do!! When you spout ignorance about how crimewatch applies to the people you that you leech off of, you cant expect us to take this statement seriously. The only thing that your videos prove is that you're prepared go suspect in order to loot a wreck that belongs to another. Do you even know who the wreck of a ganked ship belongs to? Actually they show that I follow the action and where major things go down.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:22:12 - [276] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal. ...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment. Sure there is! No law abiding person would have a reason to go to low or nullsec, so they should be required to first go criminal before they are kicked out of highsec. It's just as arbitrary and stupid as your reasoning for keeping criminals out of highsec Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities And the criminals have plenty of legal things to do in highsec. Trading, research, manufacturing for example. Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27825	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:25:11 - [277] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: How is it so hard for you to watch my twitch videos and see that I might just know what Im talking about in terms of ganking and what goes on daily. I steal from these dudes, my corp steals from these dudes. Thats what we do!! When you spout ignorance about how crimewatch applies to the people you that you leech off of, you cant expect us to take this statement seriously. The only thing that your videos prove is that you're prepared go suspect in order to loot a wreck that belongs to another. Do you even know who the wreck of a ganked ship belongs to? Actually they show that I follow the action and where major things go down. That isn't what I was questioning You've repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance of how Crimewatch affect gankers, while asking for Crimewatch to be changed to further affect gankers. With that in mind I'm questioning your statement that you know what you're talking about when it comes to ganking. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:25:44 - [278] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Except you dont. You started this thread without knowing the mechanics. You think witnessing a freighter die everyday makes you an expert on ganking. But you're clearly not, and you are willfully ignoring that hundreds, if not thousands, of freighters pass by without so much as a shot being made. You don't know what you're talking about. You lie. You ignore what we are trying to tell you. Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:27:27 - [279] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: How is it so hard for you to watch my twitch videos and see that I might just know what Im talking about in terms of ganking and what goes on daily. I steal from these dudes, my corp steals from these dudes. Thats what we do!! When you spout ignorance about how crimewatch applies to the people you that you leech off of, you cant expect us to take this statement seriously. The only thing that your videos prove is that you're prepared go suspect in order to loot a wreck that belongs to another. Do you even know who the wreck of a ganked ship belongs to? Actually they show that I follow the action and where major things go down. That isn't what I was questioning You've repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance of how Crimewatch affect gankers, while asking for Crimewatch to be changed to further affect gankers, as have some of your supporters/sock puppets. With that in mind, I'm questioning your statement that you know what you're talking about when it comes to ganking. Question whatever you like man, but Id appreciate it if you discussed the OP without falling off the cliff into other topics not mentioned about in the OP.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3780	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:28:18 - [280] - Quote Yes. Its part of the game. They are getting away with nothing more than playing the game. You have as much reason to complain about players mining in a never ending loop. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27825	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:28:41 - [281] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload. Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 380	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:29:54 - [282] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason. If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec. Love the double-standards here btw! Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:30:05 - [283] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Yes. Its part of the game. They are getting away with nothing more than playing the game. You have as much reason to complain about players mining in a never ending loop. Part of the game that can be improved
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27825	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:32:44 - [284] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That isn't what I was questioning You've repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance of how Crimewatch affect gankers, while asking for Crimewatch to be changed to further affect gankers, as have some of your supporters/sock puppets. With that in mind, I'm questioning your statement that you know what you're talking about when it comes to ganking. Question whatever you like man, but Id appreciate it if you discussed the OP without falling off the cliff into other topics not mentioned about in the OP. So I'm to ignore your statements in this thread that are blatantly wrong, because my questioning of your knowledge as demonstrated by them doesn't suit your agenda? Got it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:33:21 - [285] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the ** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason. If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec. Love the double-standards here btw! Criminals are not banned under the logic of the original post. They would be required to monitor their status if they want to stage in highsec as gankers, that is all. If their status gets to bad, they instantly get wrecked to ** for pissing off faction police and concord so much. Then they say sorry (repair their status through tags / mission running - which also bring more important to the economy of tags) and be more careful next time.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:37:14 - [286] - Quote All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punished the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes. All you have as an excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the insanely low 15 minute timer of Concord timer. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:38:57 - [287] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload. Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change? So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick. But up in highsec, you cant even target gankers if they stay in warp unless you use a very specific ship. And to do this, you then need a fulltime fleet or svipuls for each freighter that is trying to make 10mil isk in cheap ass contracts.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 380	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:39:45 - [288] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the ** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason. If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec. Love the double-standards here btw! Criminals are not banned under the logic of the original post. They would be required to monitor their status if they want to stage in highsec as gankers, that is all. If their status gets to bad, they instantly get wrecked to ** for pissing off faction police and concord so much. Then they say sorry (repair their status through tags / mission running - which also bring more importance to the economy of tags) and be more careful next time. Criminals can be freely shot in highsec. If you don't think that the faction police is doing their job, why don't you start hunting them ? Wormholer for life.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3780	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:44:24 - [289] - Quote I agree. Ganking could be buffed. Its far too infrequent. And i say that as a miner and freighter pilot. What sucks is nerfs to ganking happen because carebears just don't like the playstyle and push nerfs despite it promoting crappy, lazy gameplay. And people wonder why the game is failing when all the fun and interactive playstyles of the most populated area of the game are nerfed to hell. Erich Einstein wrote: So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick. Yep it absoultey is good for the game. Destruction drives the economy. Ganking is an engaging activity that entire communities (on both sides) have formed around. It is a massive amount of content that is generated from ganking. And players that are shot at are more likely to stick with the game longer than those that aren't. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:56:36 - [290] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: I agree. Ganking could be buffed. Its far too infrequent. And i say that as a miner and freighter pilot. What sucks is nerfs to ganking happen because carebears just don't like the playstyle and push nerfs despite it promoting crappy, lazy gameplay. And people wonder why the game is failing when all the fun and interactive playstyles of the most populated area of the game are nerfed to hell. Erich Einstein wrote: So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick. Yep it absoultey is good for the game. Destruction drives the economy. Ganking is an engaging activity that entire communities (on both sides) have formed around. It is a massive amount of content that is generated from ganking. And players that are shot at are more likely to stick with the game longer than those that aren't. edit- and AGAIN with the lies, Show me where 1-10bil freighters are being ganked every 15 minutes. Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:58:35 - [291] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Show me where 1-10bil freighters are being ganked every 15 minutes. Just watch my twitch vids, look at zkill under Karma Fleet, Gimma Da Loot, Kusion, Bob Painter, etc.... https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/ Last 7 days biggest kills is easily around 75bil. And then add in all the others not shown in the top 7 list.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:59:05 - [292] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path. Six years ago. We all did dumb things six years ago. And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27825	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:00:04 - [293] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload. Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change? So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. 1: It's not 1-10B every 15 minutes, the loot fairy and Murphy's law make sure of that; anti ganking try to curtail it further, but they've yet to form a cohesive organisation and an approach which is effective.* 2: Hisec is as much a PvP area as any other area of the game, CCP have said this repeatedly. 3: It might not be good for the blood pressure of those that take ganks personally, but it's certainly good for the game. The whole game is driven by conflict and destruction, especially the parts of it that mainly take place in hisec. Quote: Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Have you any proof that it's a never ending loop of free PLEX? Quote: Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick. A place where people put effort into ensuring their own safety is safer than a place where people do not; not shocked. In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety. *I hope that anti ganking do get it together, and take it to the gankers; it would create content for both groups. Gankers could do with more opposition, but from players, not game mechanics. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:04:13 - [294] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path. Six years ago. We all did dumb things six years ago. And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event? I assure you, it is not only happening because of burn jita... check zkill before you make comments like that.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:05:41 - [295] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety. Yeah but their are also mechanics that prevent you from doing anything you want in the game as well. Its called balance.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3780	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:15:44 - [296] - Quote Ive never lost a freighter or a barge. Doesnt mean i dont fly them. I lost a domi in null in 2011! you can see more recent loss mails since then. I keep saying it because it has repeatedly been claimed that the only people against ganking nerfs are gankers. When that bull **** stops, i'll stop. The amount of freighters ganked is depressingly low compared to the amount of freighters that get through unscathed. Why is this bad? glad you asked. The safer space is, the less engaged the player base are. They dont have to earn their rewards, they just press button and get bacon. They dont have to make friends because everything is so easy it can be done solo, there is not enough reward to actually try. (take a look at how many freighters are flying through Uedama on auto pilot...the bare minimum of engagement). These players that dont make friends and dont face threats are more likely quit the game sooner. Allowing more ganking to happen makes hauling and mining less safe. This encorages players to pay attention and think about what they are doing, read PLAY THE GAME. Players who make smart choices and put in effort thrive in dangerous environments because their effort is rewarded. Players faced with adversity reach out to other players for help. They form bonds by sharing a common enemy. This is the kind of play we should be promoting because the players who experience it are the most likely to stick with the game. if its happening outside of burn jita, show me. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:17:37 - [297] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: -10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status? No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor. Where it commit criminal acts does not matter. Its still criminal in lowsec, you just dont get wrecked by concord for it. Back tracking noted....still a bad idea. If a player is not a threat to HS players I don't see why the game should impede his progress, let other players try and do that. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:20:10 - [298] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Ive never lost a freighter or a barge. Doesnt mean i dont fly them. I lost a domi in null in 2011! you can see more recent loss mails since then. I keep saying it because it has repeatedly been claimed that the only people against ganking nerfs are gankers. When that bull **** stops, i'll stop. The amount of freighters ganked is depressingly low compared to the amount of freighters that get through unscathed. Why is this bad? glad you asked. The safer space is, the less engaged the player base are. They dont have to earn their rewards, they just press button and get bacon. They dont have to make friends because everything is so easy it can be done solo, there is not enough reward to actually try. (take a look at how many freighters are flying through Uedama on auto pilot...the bare minimum of engagement). These players that dont make friends and dont face threats are more likely quit the game sooner. Allowing more ganking to happen makes hauling and mining less safe. This encorages players to pay attention and think about what they are doing, read PLAY THE GAME. Players who make smart choices and put in effort thrive in dangerous environments because their effort is rewarded. Players faced with adversity reach out to other players for help. They form bonds by sharing a common enemy. This is the kind of play we should be promoting because the players who experience it are the most likely to stick with the game. if its happening outside of burn jita, show me. What part of "the threat will still be there" dont you understand. The OP is just interested in terminating the infinite-loop, improving the security status importance, and balancing the amount gankers take in a given amount of time.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:20:16 - [299] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. No I think you are lying. It is right there in their annual reports. So either you are lying or RFF is. Edit: Look at what the OP has to do here to try and justify his point. When somebody points to actual data from a third party not even involved in the discussion. Data complied probably a year ago...he has to claim it is a lie. There is a word for this: dogmatist. When one is presented with data that contradicts your beliefs or hypothesis you should change your beliefs/hypothesis not dismiss the data. There is another name for data: facts. The OP is a liar. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:22:01 - [300] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Back tracking noted....still a bad idea. If a player is not a threat to HS players I don't see why the game should impede his progress, let other players try and do that. If you do criminal things you are a threat to highsec... Its says so right on your security status. lol Thats a completely separate issue from what the OP.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:23:16 - [301] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. No I think you are lying. It is right there in their annual reports. So either you are lying or RFF is. Edit: Look at what the OP has to do here to try and justify his point. When somebody points to actual data from a third party not even involved in the discussion. Data complied probably a year ago...he has to claim it is a lie. There is a word for this: dogmatist. When one is presented with data that contradicts your beliefs or hypothesis you should change your beliefs/hypothesis not dismiss the data. There is another name for data: facts. The OP is a liar. Just zkill it man... geez
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:25:06 - [302] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: You vastly underestimate how many freighters pass through jita safely. You're talking about hundreds PER freighter ganked. Thats what we've been trying to tell you all this time. This guy is, frankly, an ignoramus. All he sees are the freighters that are ganked. He does not see the one's that pass through unmolested. So of course, he concludes that the number of freighters ganked is high? Based on what? Nothing. Literally nothing. Suppose 100 freighters are ganked but that 10,000 pass through...the gank rate is 1/100 or 1%. Is that something to get bent out shape about? Probably not. But the OP (nor I) can say for sure. We can look at RFF and we see that traditionally they fail very few contracts. Some are failed due to suicide ganks. So, prudent players will likely be fine more than 99% of the time. There is no solid evidence there is a problem, and some reason to believe there is no problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:26:39 - [303] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Quote: Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita. No I think you are lying. It is right there in their annual reports. So either you are lying or RFF is. Edit: Look at what the OP has to do here to try and justify his point. When somebody points to actual data from a third party not even involved in the discussion. Data complied probably a year ago...he has to claim it is a lie. There is a word for this: dogmatist. When one is presented with data that contradicts your beliefs or hypothesis you should change your beliefs/hypothesis not dismiss the data. There is another name for data: facts. The OP is a liar. Just zkill it man... geez Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:28:57 - [304] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety. So whats the point of gate guns, security status, different security zones, CONCORD, Faction Police, etc than ... just get rid of CONCORD and Faction Police because it is up to the player, not anything else. Your arguments are too generalized and not really related to the OP.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27826	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:31:15 - [305] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety. Yeah but their are also mechanics that prevent you from doing anything you want in the game as well. Its called balance. You missed the point. I haul through the killing fields of the chokepoints and hubs on a regular basis. I don't rely on Concord to discourage people from ganking me. A lot of my gameplay revolves around not being ganked by virtue of being faster, more prepared and harder to kill than other people; I don't fly freighters because that's what 3rd parties are for. I rely on the choices I make and my knowledge of the opposition, for example: I have a (r)isk limit on my cargo. I don't use autopilot, if I need a leak I dock up. I fit my hauler in such a way that it packs enough tank to shrug off a couple of 'Nado alpha strikes, or 3 Catalysts in a 0.5, has the into warp time of a cruiser and allows me to carry enough value to make the trip worthwhile. I know who and where the gankers are and have them set to terrible standings, even the one that I'm friendly with. I know how crimewatch works, I know how gankers work, having actually flown with them and asking questions instead of assuming I know and ignoring those who tell me otherwise. []My overview is unf*ked, and more importantly I use it to stay aware of my surroundings. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:31:22 - [306] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. Again, its not about the targets... its about how gankers are able to operate in highsec due to certain mechanics in the game. Refer to the OP.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:32:57 - [307] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path. Six years ago. We all did dumb things six years ago. And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event? First off that is an old kill, it actually predates zkill (I think). Back in time there was no distinction when a player lost a BPO or BPC (not even sure if there is one now). So I find it quite plausible that that kill is wildly overvalued. That you keep harping on this know it is likely false makes you a liar. Second, Daichi was relatively new to the game back then. We all did stupid stuff when we were new. What makes you look even worse is that there is no evidence Daichi showed up on the forums and whined. And even if he did, which he most likely did not, he learned what the game is about and changed his beliefs and views of the game instead of obstinately insisting the game be changed to suit him. In short, bringing this up makes you look just downright ridiculous. So...keep doing. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:33:03 - [308] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety. Yeah but their are also mechanics that prevent you from doing anything you want in the game as well. Its called balance. You missed the point. I haul through the killing fields of the chokepoints and hubs on a regular basis. I don't rely on Concord to discourage people from ganking me. A lot of my gameplay revolves around not being ganked by virtue of being faster, more prepared and harder to kill than other people; I don't fly freighters because that's what 3rd parties are for. I rely on the choices I make and my knowledge of the opposition, for example: I have a (r)isk limit on my cargo. I don't use autopilot, if I need a leak I dock up. I fit my hauler in such a way that it packs enough tank to shrug off a couple of 'Nado alpha strikes, or 3 Catalysts in a 0.5, has the into warp time of a cruiser and allows me to carry enough value to make the trip worthwhile. I know who and where the gankers are and have them set to terrible standings, even the one that I'm friendly with. I know how crimewatch works, I know how gankers work, having actually flown with them and asking questions instead of assuming I know and ignoring those who tell me otherwise. My overview is unf**ked, and more importantly I use it to stay aware of my surroundings. again, off-topic from the OP. I know you guys want to argue different things that make your points valid but it does not refer to the OP and what it suggests.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3782	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:33:12 - [309] - Quote You're not really making your case that anything is wrong with the infinite loop. Its normal gameplay, much like gate camping, which can also be done on an endless loop. Given the frequency of ganking compared to freighter travel, and add on top of that how little effort it takes to avoid ganking, i am genuinely astonished that people think ganking is a problem and should be further nerfed. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:34:27 - [310] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path. Six years ago. We all did dumb things six years ago. And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event? First off that is an old kill, it actually predates zkill (I think). Back in time there was no distinction when a player lost a BPO or BPC (not even sure if there is one now). So I find it quite plausible that that kill is wildly overvalued. That you keep harping on this know it is likely false makes you a liar. Second, Daichi was relatively new to the game back then. We all did stupid stuff when we were new. What makes you look even worse is that there is no evidence Daichi showed up on the forums and whined. And even if he did, which he most likely did not, he learned what the game is about and changed his beliefs and views of the game instead of obstinately insisting the game be changed to suit him. In short, bringing this up makes you look just downright ridiculous. So...keep doing. The only reason the kill was brought up was because he tried to make a smart comment about one freighter kill that I had months ago. Doesnt really matter to me much.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:36:01 - [311] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: You're not really making your case that anything is wrong with the infinite loop. Its normal gameplay, much like gate camping, which can also be done on an endless loop. Given the frequency of ganking compared to freighter travel, and add on top of that how little effort it takes to avoid ganking, i am genuinely astonished that people think ganking is a problem and should be further nerfed. Gate camping happens in low and null sec. The OP would still take care of gate campers in highsec.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:38:59 - [312] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. Again, its not about the targets... its about how gankers are able to operate in highsec due to certain mechanics in the game. Refer to the OP. No, it would be about the rate of ganking dingaling. If your unconditional probability of getting ganked is say 10% you might have something. But we don't know. We can look at RFF's numbers and draw some inferences.... 1. Are RFF pilots generally prudent--i.e. do they use scouts, webs, tank when possible, and not carry too much? 2. We know RFF fails very few contracts...which is why people use them. Based on 1 being true and given 2 we can conclude with some degree of confidence that the conditional probability of being ganked is very, very low. That is if you are prudent your probability of being ganked is less than 1%. So all your bleating about Goons ganking all the things is simply not true. Since you are basing your argument on these bleatings your argument does not have a base...no foundation. Now you are starting to recognize it and shift over to "all criminals" because you realize your initial position was flawed. You are insistent on your beliefs and will move the goal posts to ensure you do not have to change your beliefs. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:46:04 - [313] - Quote To be clear, the OP started this thread with the view that suicide ganking was too easy. That it was, essentially, too frequent. It is obvious we have little data on how frequent it is, but it likely not nearly as rampant as the OP says it is. We do have some information on how likely a prudent freighter pilot is going to be ganked. It is very low. Using RFF annual reports we see it is typically below 1%. So even the current "permissive" access to HS that is allowed for -10 sec status players there is not an issue with rampant ganking...at least not if you are prudent. Given this, I see absolutely no issue with suicide ganking. Erich Einstein has nothing to support his position. Nothing. Even pointing to zkillboard does not tell us what we need to know. Zkillboard only tells us the numerator in regards to the rate of ganking in New Eden. It tells us nothing about the denominator. Now if I were at CCP I'd see if I can get data on both the numerator and denominator. In fact, it would be awesome if somebody like CCP Quandt could query the data and give us a time series (graphically) of freighter ganking in terms of a rate. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27827	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:48:50 - [314] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: So whats the point of gate guns, security status, different security zones, CONCORD, Faction Police, etc than ... just get rid of CONCORD and Faction Police because it is up to the player, not anything else. Your arguments are too generalized and not really related to the OP. Try reading what I wrote, they are mechanical means of providing varying rules of engagement, all of them. Nowhere did I suggest removing any of them, nor are my arguments too generalised or offtopic. You're arguing for a change in mechanics, I'm saying that such a change isn't needed and given your ignorance of the mechanics in play, informing you of how and why they work the way they currently do. Quote: again, off-topic from the OP. I know you guys want to argue different things that make your points valid but it does not refer to the OP and what it suggests. Once again, it's not off topic. You have been repeatedly told that the reason suicide ganking is profitable is because a goodly percentage of their victims make it profitable to kill them, to be blunt those victims are morons. I provided you with a list of examples of things. that when used correctly makes gankers go after someone else, in other words how to make yourself safer by not being a moron. As above you're arguing for a change in game mechanics, I'm saying that it's not needed because it's already possible to A: Shoot them yourself and B: not really a problem if you're prepared to put a little effort in to avoid it in the first place (see not being a moron). In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:50:19 - [315] - Quote I'll also add that Erich Einstein's idea is bad because it is having NPCs do what the players should be doing. The player should be managing their risk in an appropriate manner. In fact, that is a nice thing about EVE. It teaches on, rather quickly and often rather harshly about mismanaging your risk. This is not a game about having CCP hold people's hands via NPCs. The suggested idea, IMO, moves us in that direction where Erich Einstein intended it to or not. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:51:31 - [316] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. Again, its not about the targets... its about how gankers are able to operate in highsec due to certain mechanics in the game. Refer to the OP. No, it would be about the rate of ganking dingaling. If your unconditional probability of getting ganked is say 10% you might have something. But we don't know. We can look at RFF's numbers and draw some inferences.... 1. Are RFF pilots generally prudent--i.e. do they use scouts, webs, tank when possible, and not carry too much? 2. We know RFF fails very few contracts...which is why people use them. Based on 1 being true and given 2 we can conclude with some degree of confidence that the conditional probability of being ganked is very, very low. That is if you are prudent your probability of being ganked is less than 1%. So all your bleating about Goons ganking all the things is simply not true. Since you are basing your argument on these bleatings your argument does not have a base...no foundation. Now you are starting to recognize it and shift over to "all criminals" because you realize your initial position was flawed. You are insistent on your beliefs and will move the goal posts to ensure you do not have to change your beliefs. So if I go to zkill, since you are unwilling, and provide you with all the links for every gank by the gank team out of jita V - moon 17 in the last month and you see just how much they are abusing the system... then you are going to agree with me right. If I remember right, Redfrog freighters are not part of a particular corp, they do this particularly because of war deccing. So there is no way to guage accurately how many freighters they lose. Given that, we would RedFrog report that they lose freighters on the daily.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:52:30 - [317] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: We can look at RFF and we see that traditionally they fail very few contracts. Some are failed due to suicide ganks. So, prudent players will likely be fine more than 99% of the time. I believe that you can use Red Frog's data but you have to look at much more than that to get the whole picture. Go to their website. Plastered on the front page it reads Burn Jita is in effect. They are well aware that if they bring a freighter/jump freighter to Jita it's probably going to die to the player ran event. I like to call this situational awareness. Beyond that look at Red Frog's FAQ. They have standard operating procedures that they follow. More than likely these things are going to keep them from becoming a loot pinyata. CCP Phantom also provided us with guidance as far as conduct in Eve HERE * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. You want to talk about the mechanics being different for those who are career criminals once they go negative to a certain point. That is already in effect. The faction police spawn and will kill your ship if you stay in one place for too long and/or if you are too slow to get into warp, you ship will be blown up.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:52:51 - [318] - Quote Why is it when somebody says, "Lets buff CONCORD!" and the response is, "No." Those asking for the buff then reply with (imagine a petulant and whiny voice), "Oh, well then, lets just remove CONCORD!"? Nobody is saying remove CONCORD FFS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:53:11 - [319] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I'll also add that Erich Einstein's idea is bad because it is having NPCs do what the players should be doing. The player should be managing their risk in an appropriate manner. In fact, that is a nice thing about EVE. It teaches on, rather quickly and often rather harshly about mismanaging your risk. This is not a game about having CCP hold people's hands via NPCs. The suggested idea, IMO, moves us in that direction where Erich Einstein intended it to or not. Other players should not be monitoring people's security status and controlling the baseline level of security that is highsec. That is the job of the NPC's. Players are only responsible for their own safety but that doesnt mean that NPC activity doesnt need balancing.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:55:17 - [320] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: We can look at RFF and we see that traditionally they fail very few contracts. Some are failed due to suicide ganks. So, prudent players will likely be fine more than 99% of the time. I believe that you can use Red Frog's data but you have to look at much more than that to get the whole picture. Go to their website. Plastered on the front page it reads Burn Jita is in effect. They are well aware that if they bring a freighter/jump freighter to Jita it's probably going to die to the player ran event. I like to call this situational awareness. Beyond that look at Red Frog's FAQ. They have standard operating procedures that they follow. More than likely these things are going to keep them from becoming a loot pinyata. CCP Phantom also provided us with guidance as far as conduct in Eve HERE * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. You want to talk about the mechanics being different for those who are career criminals once they go negative to a certain point. That is already in effect. The faction police spawn and will kill your ship if you stay in one place for too long and/or if you are too slow to get into warp, you ship will be blown up. Absolutely. I would argue that is part of being a prudent player. Be aware of these things. I am taking my JF NOWHERE near Jita this weekend. You guys would be on me like stink on **** (even though we were once blue...I'm not now so I'd be fair game...which I have no issue with). Hell at past Burn events there'd be people along the routes saying "Turn back...they are kill all freighters" and the freighters would head right into the meat grinder, some even on autopilot. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:55:56 - [321] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: We can look at RFF and we see that traditionally they fail very few contracts. Some are failed due to suicide ganks. So, prudent players will likely be fine more than 99% of the time. I believe that you can use Red Frog's data but you have to look at much more than that to get the whole picture. Go to their website. Plastered on the front page it reads Burn Jita is in effect. They are well aware that if they bring a freighter/jump freighter to Jita it's probably going to die to the player ran event. I like to call this situational awareness. Beyond that look at Red Frog's FAQ. They have standard operating procedures that they follow. More than likely these things are going to keep them from becoming a loot pinyata. CCP Phantom also provided us with guidance as far as conduct in Eve HERE * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. You want to talk about the mechanics being different for those who are career criminals once they go negative to a certain point. That is already in effect. The faction police spawn and will kill your ship if you stay in one place for too long and/or if you are too slow to get into warp, you ship will be blown up. As many people have pointed out... the issue is not CONCORD, its faction police and the security status system.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 22:56:55 - [322] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I'll also add that Erich Einstein's idea is bad because it is having NPCs do what the players should be doing. The player should be managing their risk in an appropriate manner. In fact, that is a nice thing about EVE. It teaches on, rather quickly and often rather harshly about mismanaging your risk. This is not a game about having CCP hold people's hands via NPCs. The suggested idea, IMO, moves us in that direction where Erich Einstein intended it to or not. Other players should not be monitoring people's security status and controlling the baseline level of security that is highsec. That is the job of the NPC's. Players are only responsible for their own safety but that doesnt mean that NPC activity doesnt need balancing. They don't have too. All they have to do is manage their own risk an they'll be fine. A criminal is much less able to inflict harm on you if you manage your risk appropriately. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:00:34 - [323] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. Again, its not about the targets... its about how gankers are able to operate in highsec due to certain mechanics in the game. Refer to the OP. No, it would be about the rate of ganking dingaling. If your unconditional probability of getting ganked is say 10% you might have something. But we don't know. We can look at RFF's numbers and draw some inferences.... 1. Are RFF pilots generally prudent--i.e. do they use scouts, webs, tank when possible, and not carry too much? 2. We know RFF fails very few contracts...which is why people use them. Based on 1 being true and given 2 we can conclude with some degree of confidence that the conditional probability of being ganked is very, very low. That is if you are prudent your probability of being ganked is less than 1%. So all your bleating about Goons ganking all the things is simply not true. Since you are basing your argument on these bleatings your argument does not have a base...no foundation. Now you are starting to recognize it and shift over to "all criminals" because you realize your initial position was flawed. You are insistent on your beliefs and will move the goal posts to ensure you do not have to change your beliefs. So if I go to zkill, since you are unwilling, and provide you with all the links for every gank by the gank team out of jita V - moon 17 in the last month and you see just how much they are abusing the system... then you are going to agree with me right. If I remember right, Redfrog freighters are not part of a particular corp, they do this particularly because of war deccing. So there is no way to guage accurately how many freighters they lose. Given that, we would RedFrog report that they lose freighters on the daily. Stop being an ass. I have gone to zkill and looked at freighter kills. In fact, in threads like this I'm one of the one's who does that kind of thing and posts numbers. My point is if you are going to look at the rate of something that is a fraction. You do know what a fraction is right? The data on zkillboard tells you what is in the numerator, but tells you nothing about the denominator. You have only half of the information you need. Edit: And RFF has in the past kept track of why contracts were failed. Last time they shared that data was in 2012. About 46% to suicide ganks. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:04:58 - [324] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Oh Great Ignorant One.... Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested. You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance. Again, its not about the targets... its about how gankers are able to operate in highsec due to certain mechanics in the game. Refer to the OP. No, it would be about the rate of ganking dingaling. If your unconditional probability of getting ganked is say 10% you might have something. But we don't know. We can look at RFF's numbers and draw some inferences.... 1. Are RFF pilots generally prudent--i.e. do they use scouts, webs, tank when possible, and not carry too much? 2. We know RFF fails very few contracts...which is why people use them. Based on 1 being true and given 2 we can conclude with some degree of confidence that the conditional probability of being ganked is very, very low. That is if you are prudent your probability of being ganked is less than 1%. So all your bleating about Goons ganking all the things is simply not true. Since you are basing your argument on these bleatings your argument does not have a base...no foundation. Now you are starting to recognize it and shift over to "all criminals" because you realize your initial position was flawed. You are insistent on your beliefs and will move the goal posts to ensure you do not have to change your beliefs. So if I go to zkill, since you are unwilling, and provide you with all the links for every gank by the gank team out of jita V - moon 17 in the last month and you see just how much they are abusing the system... then you are going to agree with me right. If I remember right, Redfrog freighters are not part of a particular corp, they do this particularly because of war deccing. So there is no way to guage accurately how many freighters they lose. Given that, we would RedFrog report that they lose freighters on the daily. Stop being an ass. I have gone to zkill and looked at freighter kills. In fact, in threads like this I'm one of the one's who does that kind of think and posts numbers. My point is if you are going to look at the rate of something that is a fraction. You do know what a fraction is right? The data on zkillboard tells you what is in the numerator, but tells you nothing about the denominator. You have only half of the information you need. The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:07:12 - [325] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:08:08 - [326] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:11:16 - [327] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP. It is no longer valid, I'm afraid. We don't know how ubiquitous freighter ganking is. We do know that for prudent players it is very unlikely. Even looking at RFF we know that thousands of courier contracts are delivered with little or no problem....provided one is prudent. This is not a problem with suicide ganking. There is not a problem with letting -10 players into HS. There is little to no evidence they are the scourge you are making them out to be. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 382	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:12:05 - [328] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP. There's no proof or anything that backs up what you are saying. Only to you don't like it. That's not a valid reason to change gameplay mechanics. It just means that you should change the way you play. In other words: HTFU Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27827	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:13:59 - [329] - Quote popcorn In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:15:25 - [330] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP. It is no longer valid, I'm afraid. We don't know how ubiquitous freighter ganking is. We do know that for prudent players it is very unlikely. Even looking at RFF we know that thousands of courier contracts are delivered with little or no problem....provided one is prudent. This is not a problem with suicide ganking. There is not a problem with letting -10 players into HS. There is little to no evidence they are the scourge you are making them out to be. Twitch vids and zkill are proof at how much isk they are able to steal from others without consequence or any real effort in HighSec. It diminishes all other aspects of isk making in the game. Im sure you also argued against gambling with isk as well but it eventually got fixed because it was not good for the game.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:16:15 - [331] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP. There's no proof or anything that backs up what you are saying. Only to you don't like it. That's not a valid reason to change gameplay mechanics. It just means that you should change the way you play. In other words: HTFU Such a wanna-be noob. Just go play eve and get wrecked.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:19:59 - [332] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Twitch vids and zkill are proof at how much isk they are able to steal from others without consequence or any real effort in HighSec. It diminishes all other aspects of isk making in the game. Im sure you also argued against gambling with isk as well but it eventually got fixed because it was not good for the game. So now you are advocating for people who are mismanaging their risk? Do I read you correctly? You think it is wrong that when a player mismanages their risk it is bad for other players to take advantage of it? So I take it you also do not like: Scammers, Corp thieves, Log on traps, And killing people who blind jump their capitals to a cyno beacon. Yes? After all all those things also entail people mismanaging their risk. We need to save people from themselves...since they are not capable of taking care of themselves, we'll do it for them. Yes? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:20:12 - [333] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Absolutely. I would argue that is part of being a prudent player. Be aware of these things. I am taking my JF NOWHERE near Jita this weekend. You guys would be on me like stink on **** (even though we were once blue...I'm not now so I'd be fair game...which I have no issue with). Hell at past Burn events there'd be people along the routes saying "Turn back...they are killing all freighters" and the freighters would head right into the meat grinder, some even on autopilot. Exactly. You can't fix stupid. As far as for the OP I would invite you to try ganking yourself. Learn the mechanics and you will learn that not all is as you seem. There as alot more to just sit there and shoot and some pubbie at random. If you really feel that my end of things is as broken and lop sided as you depict, this experience will enlighten you to what it is like and that there is alot you have to deal with to be able to get that juicy kill. It will also enlighten you to the stupidity of people. Would you haul 7 billion in an anti tanked T1 hauler? Maybe not but people do it. And that is why they get themselves blown up.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 383	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:20:52 - [334] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The security status and faction police mechanic is broken. I dont need to weight targets and their habits, etc to see that. What you are saying has no bearing on my point. You keep saying this, but you have nothing upon which to base this. You tried with suicide ganking of freighters, but clearly you have failed in that. If there is no problem, then it stands to reason it is not broken. Just read the OP. There's no proof or anything that backs up what you are saying. Only to you don't like it. That's not a valid reason to change gameplay mechanics. It just means that you should change the way you play. In other words: HTFU Such a wanna-be noob. Just go play eve and get wrecked. I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:24:03 - [335] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Twitch vids and zkill are proof at how much isk they are able to steal from others without consequence or any real effort in HighSec. It diminishes all other aspects of isk making in the game. Im sure you also argued against gambling with isk as well but it eventually got fixed because it was not good for the game. So now you are advocating for people who are mismanaging their risk? Do I read you correctly? You think it is wrong that when a player mismanages their risk it is bad for other players to take advantage of it? So I take it you also do not like: Scammers, Corp thieves, Log on traps, And killing people who blind jump their capitals to a cyno beacon. Yes? After all all those things also entail people mismanaging their risk. We need to save people from themselves...since they are not capable of taking care of themselves, we'll do it for them. Yes? Just stop talking please... i dont know if you are trying to build your forum likes or something but go do it elsewhere. Your a troll and that all there is to it.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:26:05 - [336] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Twitch vids and zkill are proof at how much isk they are able to steal from others without consequence or any real effort in HighSec. It diminishes all other aspects of isk making in the game. Im sure you also argued against gambling with isk as well but it eventually got fixed because it was not good for the game. So now you are advocating for people who are mismanaging their risk? Do I read you correctly? You think it is wrong that when a player mismanages their risk it is bad for other players to take advantage of it? So I take it you also do not like: Scammers, Corp thieves, Log on traps, And killing people who blind jump their capitals to a cyno beacon. Yes? After all all those things also entail people mismanaging their risk. We need to save people from themselves...since they are not capable of taking care of themselves, we'll do it for them. Yes? Just stop talking please... i dont know if you are trying to build your forum likes or something but go do it elsewhere. Your a troll and that all there is to it. Fortunately you are not ISD, and you put your idea out there for others to comment on...which includes me. Perhaps you should consider the following: Editing your post with something like: Needs to go back on the drawing board. Then ask ISD to close the thread and there...I can no longer comment. But since I'd like to see the game survive, I'll comment on ideas I think are both good and bad. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:27:35 - [337] - Quote NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:28:50 - [338] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3782	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:29:33 - [339] - Quote A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk. Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts. And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:29:36 - [340] - Quote NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? They absolutely should!

Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 384	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:31:08 - [341] - Quote NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6002	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:32:18 - [342] - Quote NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? They are treated as criminals, just not as you'd like them to be treated. You can shoot them. The FacPo will chase them, and if they are not fast enough catch and kill them. IIRC gate guns won't defend them if you shoot them first in LS. The issue is not that they are not treated as criminals, just that they are not treated like you'd like to see them treated. Please tell us how treating them more harshly will help the game? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:32:39 - [343] - Quote NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? How are we not? Lets go to the OP's original statement surrounding the -10 Sec status. At that point ANY pilot may freely engage your ship/pod. In addition to that you are limited in what you are able to fly due to the faction police spawning and chasing you to kill your ship so therefore you have to fly small/fast ships and you also lose the ability to cloak.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:32:53 - [344] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk. Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts. And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk. No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3782	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:33:20 - [345] - Quote Barely even reading your posts anymore nightmare. Your posts are that baseless they don't deserve attention. You're going in circles and keep coming back to 'Only gankers don't like this idea. wah wah wah'. So i stop reading after a couple of lines. Be less childish then maybe i'll address them. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 384	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:34:05 - [346] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:34:30 - [347] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:35:06 - [348] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? How are we not? Lets go to the OP's original statement surrounding the -10 Sec status. At that point ANY pilot may freely engage your ship/pod. In addition to that you are limited in what you are able to fly due to the faction police spawning and chasing you to kill your ship so therefore you have to fly small/fast ships and you also lose the ability to cloak. And why does it stop there for career criminals who continue to wreck and wreck and wreck. Why shouldnt they have to manage their security status as the OP suggests?
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 384	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:35:52 - [349] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6003	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:36:59 - [350] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk. Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts. And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk. No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him. Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion. But you just can't seem to get this point. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:37:19 - [351] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for tiny 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins? It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:38:37 - [352] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? They are treated as criminals, just not as you'd like them to be treated. You can shoot them. The FacPo will chase them, and if they are not fast enough catch and kill them. IIRC gate guns won't defend them if you shoot them first in LS. The issue is not that they are not treated as criminals, just that they are not treated like you'd like to see them treated. Please tell us how treating them more harshly will help the game? It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6003	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:38:50 - [353] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. CCP themselves call it a sandbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3783	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:39:13 - [354] - Quote Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships? Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship. We're talking hours of work here. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:40:52 - [355] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk. Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts. And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk. No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him. Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion. But you just can't seem to get this point. We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:41:47 - [356] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships? Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship. We're talking hours of work here. Sorry ... you are wrong. Watch some of Kusions gank vids.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6003	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:41:49 - [357] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system. That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong. The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk. How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:42:37 - [358] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. CCP themselves call it a sandbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU yeah well they are dumb then... Doesn't make it a sandbox.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:42:50 - [359] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins? That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6003	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:43:11 - [360] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk. Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts. And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk. No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him. Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion. But you just can't seem to get this point. We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere. You brought it up dude. Perhaps you shouldn't post that crap then. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:43:49 - [361] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system. That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong. The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk. How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock. then its also no business if i want to gamble my isk away... but they put a stop to that didnt they.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:44:53 - [362] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins? It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE? The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world. Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:44:57 - [363] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy. under that logic, you could claim that about any game
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:45:47 - [364] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins? It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE? The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world. Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions. Every criminal eventually gets caughts if their crimes get big enough...
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:46:11 - [365] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you cyno jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to. That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:47:22 - [366] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy. under that logic, you could claim that about any game Can't think of a another game that puts so much freedom into the players hands. Scamming, ganking, spying, etc etc. Not to mention giving the players the tools to respond to those actions. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:47:36 - [367] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at. Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3783	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:48:11 - [368] - Quote NightmareX wrote: But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins? It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE? How is it ruining peoples game? No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn. You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:48:13 - [369] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system. That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong. The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk. How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock. then its also no business if i want to gamble my isk away... but they put a stop to that didnt they. There were other reasons for that, legal ones. Cripes, but you are uninformed.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:49:34 - [370] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Every criminal eventually gets caughts if their crimes get big enough... What do you think is big enough in Eve? We are immortal space-pilots who operate beyond the empires grasp. The only thing that can keep a capsuleer in check is CONCORD and another capsuleer. Since CONCORD is the punishment, you should be the police then? As the devs clearly have meant since you are able to shoot at criminals freely Wormholer for life.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:49:43 - [371] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins? It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE? The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world. Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions. Id be nice, but jumping from gate to gate as a fleet makes holding the fleet down impossible. Simply because the jump is to fast and invulnerability while warping. You would need a full fleet (50+) to effectively protect your freighter from getting ganked.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:49:57 - [372] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy. under that logic, you could claim that about any game Can't think of a another game that puts so much freedom into the players hands. Scamming, ganking, spying, etc etc. Not to mention giving the players the tools to respond to those actions. The economy.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27829	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:50:16 - [373] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere. You don't get to declare stuff as off topic because it doesn't suit your agenda. You're saying that mechanics need to change because you think that gankers are making an obscene profit through suicide ganking, and that ganking is too easy. Many of us disagree with you. The reasons behind why they are able to profit, why it appears to be easy and what could be done to change that without changing the actual mechanics are relevant to the discussion. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:50:22 - [374] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at. Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around. It is also quite difficult to do anything when you are in warp, so having to constantly warp around also means that you cannot be threat. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:51:22 - [375] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins? It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE? How is it ruining peoples game? No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn. You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you. Oh look, no one cares about real life things you say. No, YOU don't cares about it because it makes your ganking life harder. Ofc you don't want it to be harder and will ofc be against it. No suprise there. Criminals independent of what it is or where it is, should have it more harder the more crimes they do. It's logic. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:51:33 - [376] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at. Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around. It is also quite difficult to do anything when you are in warp, so having to constantly warp around also means that you cannot be threat. yeah, not until you need to be a threat for like 10 sec. Then it doesnt matter anymore.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3783	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:52:08 - [377] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships? Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship. We're talking hours of work here. Sorry ... you are wrong. Watch some of Kusions gank vids. Can you link one that isnt hyperdunking? (cause thats band) No scout. No tackle. No bumper. No Isboxer. Just ganking a freighter solo. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:52:12 - [378] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Id be nice, but jumping from gate to gate as a fleet makes holding the fleet down impossible. Simply because the jump is to fast and invulnerability while warping. You would need a full fleet (50+) to effectively protect your freighter from getting ganked. Last I checked, you cannot warp within 2 seconds on a destroyer and you cannot gank in a frigate, so catching the gank-ships should be possible... Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:52:19 - [379] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at. Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around. No kidding, but what can you do while in warp? Can you target? Can you shoot anything? What harm can you impose on other players? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:53:45 - [380] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins? It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE? How is it ruining peoples game? No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn. You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you. Oh look, no one cares about real life things you say. No, YOU don't cares about it because it makes your ganking life harder. Ofc you don't want it to be harder and will ofc be against it. No suprise there. Criminals independent of what it is or where it is, should have it more harder the more crimes they do. It's logic. Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:54:28 - [381] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to. That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else. Not necessarily, I gank with another one of my characters that has a positive sec status. So if you consider that for committing a crime while I have a negative sec status I should get a longer timer so by that logic I should be able to have a shorter timer because I don't have a criminal sec status.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:55:29 - [382] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. CCP themselves call it a sandbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU yeah well they are dumb then... Doesn't make it a sandbox. Is it an open class less system? Does it show examples of emergent game play? Is there spontaneous order? Yes. Yes. And yes. Yup, a sandbox. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:55:34 - [383] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:57:02 - [384] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships? Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship. We're talking hours of work here. Sorry ... you are wrong. Watch some of Kusions gank vids. Can you link one that isnt hyperdunking? (cause thats band) No scout. No tackle. No bumper. No Isboxer. Just ganking a freighter solo. Thats the thing... its hard to determine which are legit and which are not... Thats they nature of ganks.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:58:35 - [385] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:58:58 - [386] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on. WoW is that way -> You'll like it more. Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from. CCP themselves call it a sandbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU yeah well they are dumb then... Doesn't make it a sandbox. Is it an open class less system? Does it show examples of emergent game play? Is there spontaneous order? Yes. Yes. And yes. Yup, a sandbox. nope, alphas cant fly ships that others can. Not class-less. There is also null, low, and high secs, which are class based in nature and define what a pilot can and can not do. Like no cyno in high sec, no cap in high sec etc. And the biggest thing is that these rules are constantly changing according to the best interest of an evolving game.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:59:32 - [387] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. I would like to see some proofs on that claim. Not only that, but you don't have to be much of a PVP character to fit out a Destroyer and gank something. That's something everyone can do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27829	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:01:45 - [388] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:03:44 - [389] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 385	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:05:00 - [390] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Sorry, only have this one dude and you can check the killboard-stats if you like. Wormholer for life.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:05:57 - [391] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Yeah, but what about your main forum toon.... 27,000 likes... you gank the **** out of every post that gets made to further your forum career.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5313	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:05:59 - [392] - Quote NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? How is that relevant? Why does one need to be a ganker to not think ganking is a bad thing? I don't gank either.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27831	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:08:12 - [393] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Because a lot of my gameplay involves tilting the odds in my favour against them. If you penalise them, you penalise me. If you make it more difficult for them to operate, the value of what I do in order to tilt the odds is reduced. In short you take away some of my fun too. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:08:45 - [394] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: CCP themselves call it a sandbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU yeah well they are dumb then... Doesn't make it a sandbox. Is it an open class less system? Does it show examples of emergent game play? Is there spontaneous order? Yes. Yes. And yes. Yup, a sandbox. nope, alphas cant fly ships that others can. Not class-less. There is also null, low, and high secs, which are class based in nature and define what a pilot can and can not do. Like no cyno in high sec, no cap in high sec etc. And the biggest thing is that these rules are constantly changing according to the best interest of an evolving game. Alphas are a free trial, so not really valid objection. And again they can do whatever their skills enable, just like with an Omega. HS, LS, and NS provide different levels of relative safety and also different rules of engagement. So there are very few limitations, it is as sandboxy as one can get. And there is alot of unique and unintended game play. Yup, sandbox. In fact, your posts indicate you don't quite understand what a sandbox is. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:09:28 - [395] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? How is that relevant? Why does one need to be a ganker to not think ganking is a bad thing? I don't gank either. Because if you are a criminal, you should be treated as a criminal that will get a harder time doing crimes as the police will be way more over you ass the more crimes you do. That's what this whole topic is about, making a system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. And how will this affect ganking at all? It just makes it harder to do the ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:09:32 - [396] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. I would like to see some proofs on that claim. Not only that, but you don't have to be much of a PVP character to fit out a Destroyer and gank something. That's something everyone can do. Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:10:02 - [397] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Because a lot of my gameplay involves tilting the odds in my favour against them. If you penalise them, you penalise me. If you make it more difficult for them to operate, the value of what I do in order to not be a victim is reduced. if order for you not to be a victim.... Preventing them from over-running highsec by making them more accountable to their criminal actions doesnt not make it harder on you as a victim. That was just dumb.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:10:26 - [398] - Quote NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? He has an interest in what is good for the overall game, not his own personal agenda. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:10:44 - [399] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:11:16 - [400] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Because a lot of my gameplay involves tilting the odds in my favour against them. If you penalise them, you penalise me. If you make it more difficult for them to operate, the value of what I do in order to not be a victim is reduced. if order for you not to be a victim.... Preventing them from over-running highsec by making them more accountable to their criminal actions doesnt not make it harder on you as a victim. That was just dumb. Yup, you don't have a clue about emergence.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6004	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:12:34 - [401] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27831	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:13:16 - [402] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah, but what about your main forum toon.... 27,000 likes... you gank the **** out of every post that gets made to further your forum career. Oh wow, you're getting desperate. A great many of those likes are from a thread in Out Of Pod Experience, the sole purpose of which is to gain likes. I stopped posting in that thread a couple of years ago, the remainder are because people like what I have to say, or because I've amused them. Deal with it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:14:52 - [403] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. I would like to see some proofs on that claim. Not only that, but you don't have to be much of a PVP character to fit out a Destroyer and gank something. That's something everyone can do. Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27833	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:16:08 - [404] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Yup, you don't have a clue about emergence.... Being clueless appears to be a theme for him. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:17:06 - [405] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Because a lot of my gameplay involves tilting the odds in my favour against them. If you penalise them, you penalise me. If you make it more difficult for them to operate, the value of what I do in order to not be a victim is reduced. if order for you not to be a victim.... Preventing them from over-running highsec by making them more accountable to their criminal actions doesnt not make it harder on you as a victim. That was just dumb. Okay, let me help you here, although it probably wonGÇÖt make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else. What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the GÇ£economic voidGÇ¥ that his competition has created by having half is stuff go GÇ£poofGÇ¥ in a ball of fire. This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, GÇ£Of human action, but not of human design.GÇ¥ The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did. Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce JonahGÇÖs opportunities too. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 386	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:17:31 - [406] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:17:32 - [407] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to. That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else. Not necessarily, I gank with another one of my characters that has a positive sec status. So if you consider that for committing a crime while I have a negative sec status I should get a longer timer so by that logic I should be able to have a shorter timer because I don't have a criminal sec status. Yes, if you know how to keep your security status in check, you should be able to do whatever the **** you want.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:19:29 - [408] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:19:37 - [409] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. Agreed. Best argument so far is, "I don't like it, so stop it." Which is of course, no argument at all, IMO. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:20:15 - [410] - Quote If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:20:25 - [411] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. No you can't. Go get a -10 sec status and try flying a battle ship or a freighter around HS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3784	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:21:25 - [412] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point? Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts? We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying. Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement. Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops? We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you? Erich Einstein wrote: Thats the thing... its hard to determine which are legit and which are not... Thats they nature of ganks. A link to a video? A killmail? All the Kusions ganks involve 10+ accounts and 10+ ships just on the kill mail. Let alone the scouting, bumping and logistics behind it all. So yeah, hours of work that few people are pulling off. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:22:18 - [413] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:23:34 - [414] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point? Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts? We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying. Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement. Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops? We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you? Erich Einstein wrote: Thats the thing... its hard to determine which are legit and which are not... Thats they nature of ganks. A link to a video? A killmail? All the Kusions ganks involve 10+ accounts and 10+ ships just on the kill mail. Let alone the scouting, bumping and logistics behind it all. So yeah, hours of work that few people are pulling off. yeah, all owned and operated by Kusion... use twitch and youtube's search features, its amazing what you can find.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 386	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:24:34 - [415] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted. Because that is not the cap for criminals. The players have the tools to deal with people with low enough security status in highsec, without CONCORD-response. It's just that they CHOOSE not to do anything. Eve is set up in such a way that the players are supposed to be the worst enemy, not NPC's. Again, show me proof that there is something unbalanced. So far all I've seen is " I don't want to use the tools that CCP gave me, CCPLS, nerf criminals." Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27833	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:24:47 - [416] - Quote These words of wisdom are in a current thread in GD. Corey Fumimasa wrote: One of Eve's great lowsec industrialists said that "In a game of cat and mouse there is no shame in being the better mouse." In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:25:02 - [417] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing. So you don't want to prove what i asked from you. Ok. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:27:11 - [418] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? He has an interest in what is good for the overall game, not his own personal agenda. And you think it's good overall for the game to let the players who get suicided over and over and over every 15 mins see that the criminals doesn't get punished harder for continuing the criminal activities where they just freely can do that without any risks for them? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:27:19 - [419] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Okay, let me help you here, although it probably wonGÇÖt make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else. What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the GÇ£economic voidGÇ¥ that his competition has created by having half is stuff go GÇ£poofGÇ¥ in a ball of fire. This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, GÇ£Of human action, but not of human design.GÇ¥ The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did. Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce JonahGÇÖs opportunities too. Except this is wrong, because people will still gank under the OP proposed changes. Gankers just have to keep thier security status in check to be effective highsec gankers.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:27:25 - [420] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing. So you don't want to prove what i asked from you. Ok. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously then. It doen't matter, you'll just claim I have a fourth or fifth account....short of giving you access to my credit card account, and even then you'll likely say I have yet another account with yet another credit card. Nope. So knock of this childish bullshit, it is just making you look like an idiot. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:28:14 - [421] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Okay, let me help you here, although it probably wonGÇÖt make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else. What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the GÇ£economic voidGÇ¥ that his competition has created by having half is stuff go GÇ£poofGÇ¥ in a ball of fire. This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, GÇ£Of human action, but not of human design.GÇ¥ The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did. Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce JonahGÇÖs opportunities too. Except this is wrong, because people will still gank under the OP proposed changes. Gankers just have to keep thier security status in check to be effective highsec gankers. I didn't write they would stop ganking, I wrote 'reduce'. Do you need a link to a dictionary website? If you reduce the ganking you reduce Jonah's opportunities. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3784	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:28:58 - [422] - Quote Ive actually looked at youtube, still looking in fact. No solo ganks. Do you have a link? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:29:05 - [423] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point? Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts? We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying. Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement. Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops? We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you? Well, you haven't explained to me why criminals in EVE shouldn't be treated like criminals though. So if you can't answer that simple question, then don't expect anyone else to answer your questions. Maybe you should do a google search of what a criminal is and how they are treated by the law enforcement before you claim to know how a criminal is supposed to be? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:29:47 - [424] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted. Because that is not the cap for criminals. The players have the tools to deal with people with low enough security status in highsec, without CONCORD-response. It's just that they CHOOSE not to do anything. Eve is set up in such a way that the players are supposed to be the worst enemy, not NPC's. Again, show me proof that there is something unbalanced. So far all I've seen is " I don't want to use the tools that CCP gave me, CCPLS, nerf criminals." Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract. Nor should that many people be required to show so much attention to one freighter. People want to play other aspects of the game. By that standard, only large corps are allowed to move freighter loads.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:30:53 - [425] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract. Good thing you don't need too. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:31:01 - [426] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird. I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:31:37 - [427] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: It doen't matter, you'll just claim I have a fourth or fifth account....short of giving you access to my credit card account, and even then you'll likely say I have yet another account with yet another credit card. Nope. So knock of this childish bullshit, it is just making you look like an idiot. As you don't know the definition of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated and because the way you are against a system like this that is logic by human nature to treat criminals, then i do believe you infact are a massive ganker with an alt that doesn't want to have a harder time for doing the crimes over and over. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:32:52 - [428] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Well, you haven't explained to me why criminals in EVE shouldn't be treated like criminals though. So if you can't answer that simple question, then don't expect anyone else to answer your questions. Maybe you should do a google search of what a criminal is and how they are treated by the law enforcement before you claim to know how a criminal is supposed to be? If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:33:44 - [429] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. No you can't. Go get a -10 sec status and try flying a battle ship or a freighter around HS. Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:34:25 - [430] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: It doen't matter, you'll just claim I have a fourth or fifth account....short of giving you access to my credit card account, and even then you'll likely say I have yet another account with yet another credit card. Nope. So knock of this childish bullshit, it is just making you look like an idiot. As you don't know the definition of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated and because the way you are against a system like this that is logic by human nature to treat criminals, then i do believe you infact are a massive ganker with an alt that doesn't want to have a harder time for doing the crimes over and over. I am quite well aware of what it means to have a -9 sec status as I had that level a sec status until recently. I had to fly around in travel ceptors, shuttles and my pod. And if I lingered anyone could shoot me. You are the one factually wrong here. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3784	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:34:30 - [431] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? He has an interest in what is good for the overall game, not his own personal agenda. And you think it's good overall for the game to let the players who get suicided over and over and over every 15 mins see that the criminals doesn't get punished harder for continuing the criminal activities where they just freely can do that without any risks for them? They do get punished. They lose their ship every time and gankers have no guarantee that they'll be paid. They lose sec status. Its good for the overall game that they are still allowed to operate in hi-sec yeah. Because ganking is good for the game. MORE ganking would be good for the game for the reasons i put forward a few pages back. You have yet to tell me how the current situation is bad for the game. Unrealistic perhaps, but so are many things in this game. Is there a gameplay reason the current situation is so bad? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:35:20 - [432] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. No you can't. Go get a -10 sec status and try flying a battle ship or a freighter around HS. Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships. Lower your security status and you get to fly bigger and bigger ships. Its called being accountable for your criminal activity. They are only a threat when in a group. Which is also a restriction. You keep saying this like it is some sort of rampant problem. It isn't a problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 386	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:35:42 - [433] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point? Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts? We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying. Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement. Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops? We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you? Well, you haven't explained to me why criminals in EVE shouldn't be treated like criminals though. So if you can't answer that simple question, then don't expect anyone else to answer your questions. Maybe you should do a google search of what a criminal is and how they are treated by the law enforcement before you claim to know how a criminal is supposed to be? You do know this is a game? Certain things are different in here, that you wouldn't do in real life. I doubt you would be going around shooting people in the face in real life, just to have fun. Fun gameplay > copying real life. Wormholer for life.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3784	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:35:56 - [434] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships. Lower your security status and you get to fly bigger and bigger ships. Its called being accountable for your criminal activity. They can barely get through with a destroyer...but why is that so bad? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:36:56 - [435] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird. I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No. Wait, wait....are you talking about incentives...perverse incentives?!?! And rent seeking? In my EVE? No wai! "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:37:18 - [436] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay. I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced. How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. No you can't. Go get a -10 sec status and try flying a battle ship or a freighter around HS. Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships. Lower your security status and you get to fly bigger and bigger ships. Its called being accountable for your criminal activity. You keep saying that you are talking about criminals and ganking has nothing to do with it, yet you keep using gankers as your proof that something needs to be done about criminals... There are other reasons for players getting a low security status, not just ganking. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:37:28 - [437] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Okay, let me help you here, although it probably wonGÇÖt make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else. What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the GÇ£economic voidGÇ¥ that his competition has created by having half is stuff go GÇ£poofGÇ¥ in a ball of fire. This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, GÇ£Of human action, but not of human design.GÇ¥ The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did. Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce JonahGÇÖs opportunities too. Except this is wrong, because people will still gank under the OP proposed changes. Gankers just have to keep thier security status in check to be effective highsec gankers. I didn't write they would stop ganking, I wrote 'reduce'. Do you need a link to a dictionary website? If you reduce the ganking you reduce Jonah's opportunities. Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings. Not everyone is a mindless sheep.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:38:33 - [438] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships. Lower your security status and you get to fly bigger and bigger ships. Its called being accountable for your criminal activity. They can barely get through with a destroyer...but why is that so bad? And then the only way to gank is to be in a group. Kusion uses alts, but to PLEX that many accounts, my God it sounds like a damn job. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:39:27 - [439] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Okay, let me help you here, although it probably wonGÇÖt make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else. What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the GÇ£economic voidGÇ¥ that his competition has created by having half is stuff go GÇ£poofGÇ¥ in a ball of fire. This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, GÇ£Of human action, but not of human design.GÇ¥ The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did. Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce JonahGÇÖs opportunities too. Except this is wrong, because people will still gank under the OP proposed changes. Gankers just have to keep thier security status in check to be effective highsec gankers. I didn't write they would stop ganking, I wrote 'reduce'. Do you need a link to a dictionary website? If you reduce the ganking you reduce Jonah's opportunities. Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings. Not everyone is a mindless sheep. WatGäó? That does not even make sense given what I wrote. Man talk about pearls before swine..... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:42:17 - [440] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:44:29 - [441] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:45:21 - [442] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: You do know this is a game? Certain things are different in here, that you wouldn't do in real life. I doubt you would be going around shooting people in the face in real life, just to have fun. Fun gameplay > copying real life. Doesn't matter how much of a game it is. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal, and not like a teddybear farting around causing harms all the time without any consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:45:26 - [443] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract. Good thing you don't need too. Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:46:15 - [444] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? didnt we already have this conversation...
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:46:58 - [445] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract. Good thing you don't need too. Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke. Gankers work as a team or are multiboxing several accounts. If they want to do it well, they will be subscribed accounts. You are complaining that you need 3 accounts to counter 15 accounts... Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:47:15 - [446] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:47:46 - [447] - Quote @Nightmare, But i have. Having gankers around and able to attack us frequently keeps us engaged. Keeps us on our toes. Makes me want to seek other players for safety in numbers. Its thrilling. Right now im mostly auto-piloting and its boring. Its more fun when i'm carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff and either ask for help or have to make a meaningful choice. Its an adrenaline rush to go through Uedama with 10bil in a freighter on a weekend. That **** is supposed to gets you shot at...and yet i havent been. Anyways, that danger, that adrenaline rush is addictive. Playing with others creates moments, stories we tell others that makes them want to play this game. Whether they are stories of killing a whale freighter, stories of getting through a gank by the skin of your teeth or stories of preventing a gank with your friends. Ganking is content. Content means subs. Make it happen more. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:48:05 - [448] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? didnt we already have this conversation... We will keep having the same conversation until you make the proof appear to back up your claims of "unbalanced gameplay" Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:49:54 - [449] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird. I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No. They are not granting my wishes according to ganking. They are fixing their broke ass security status / faction police system so that it does something meaningful. Goon fleet gankers have shown that it does not work for their type of criminal behavior.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:50:14 - [450] - Quote Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:50:39 - [451] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare, But i have. Having gankers around and able to attack us frequently keeps us engaged. Keeps us on our toes. Makes me want to seek other players for safety in numbers. Its thrilling. Right now im mostly auto-piloting and its boring. Its more fun when i'm carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff and either ask for help or have to make a meaningful choice. Its an adrenaline rush to go through Uedama with 10bil in a freighter on a weekend. That ** is supposed to gets you shot at...and yet i havent been. Anyways, that danger, that adrenaline rush is addictive. Playing with others creates moments, stories we tell others that makes them want to play this game. Whether they are stories of killing a whale freighter, stories of getting through a gank by the skin of your teeth or stories of preventing a gank with your friends. Ganking is content. Content means subs. Make it happen more. I'm not sure, but i haven't said anything about removing ganking or changing the actual ganking mechanics in EVE. I have said that YOU as a criminal should face harder consequences the more crimes you do. Doing ganking will still be possible all day long, but it will be much harder to successfully do the more you have done it as the police will catch you way faster and kill you much faster as you have pissed off the police for commiting crimes more and more. Logic101 for you right there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:50:59 - [452] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? didnt we already have this conversation... We will keep having the same conversation until you make the proof appear to back up your claims of "unbalanced gameplay" please... keep the thread going so that it gains more tracking and attention. I dont mind because the first thing that is read is the OP.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:52:28 - [453] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough) People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there? Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27835	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:53:23 - [454] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings. That's an oxymoron. That I'm very aware of my surroundings is why I succeed where others fail, normally while transiting Uedama. You'll have to qualify what you mean by history because overall your statement makes no sense. Quote: Not everyone is a mindless sheep. I'm a mindless sheep because I actually think about how I play? Oh the irony. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 387	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:53:37 - [455] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: please... keep the thread going so that it gains more tracking and attention. I dont mind because the first thing that is read is the OP. And then people will laugh out loud, comment how big of an idiot you are and go back to another thread that actually makes any damn sense (very few of those around lately... Must be something in the air after burn jita) Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6005	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:54:14 - [456] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract. Good thing you don't need too. Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke. Or get a buddy in a rapier.... And right now, there are people out actively hunting Goon fleets. Wow...more emergence from the sandbox... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:54:50 - [457] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough) People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there? Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences for continuing doing the crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:55:46 - [458] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:56:15 - [459] - Quote No word of a lie, Mining was more fun when i thought i could get ganked at any moment. So i tanked my barge and used ECM drones. It was FUN when the gankers failed because one got jammed and it put them below the damage threshold to kill me. It was even better when the barges next to me (my competition) got killed because they were too greedy to tank their barges properly. Its now been over a year anyones made an attempt on my barge. @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 388	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:56:47 - [460] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough) People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there? Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences on continuing dpoing the crimes. There are consequences. Just that you choose not to take advantage of those (shoot them) doesn't mean they aren't there. CCP has given you the tools to take care of criminals in highsec, but if you let them be, it's your own damn fault. This isn't real life, this isn't WoW. If you feel like something needs to be done, then DO IT. Don't expect the game to do it for you. Wormholer for life.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:57:39 - [461] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings. That's an oxymoron. That I'm very aware of my surroundings is why I succeed where others fail, normally while transiting Uedama. You'll have to qualify what you mean by history because overall your statement makes no sense. Quote: Not everyone is a mindless sheep. I'm a mindless sheep because I actually think about how I play? Oh the irony. Erich Einstein, You have fallen for one of the classic blunders, the first of which "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", the second is "Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line." And the third, slightly less well known is "Never go up against Jonah Gravenstein who has an endless array of animated gifs to defeat you!" "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:58:27 - [462] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen? Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:58:59 - [463] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 388	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:59:11 - [464] - Quote This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread. Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:00:10 - [465] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen? Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank. Got any numbers to support that. I don't think I said it wouldn't reduce ganking. I pointed out it gave rise to professional ganking and yet here we are again with BadsGäó asking for "one more nerf and it will be balanced." "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:00:12 - [466] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: No word of a lie, Mining was more fun when i thought i could get ganked at any moment. So i tanked my barge and used ECM drones. It was FUN when the gankers failed because one got jammed and it put them below the damage threshold to kill me. It was even better when the barges next to me (my competition) got killed because they were too greedy to tank their barges properly. Its now been over a year anyones made an attempt on my barge. @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. We are glad its fun. OP has no intention of trying to end that fun, just fix the system to deal with out of control goon gank fleets.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:00:21 - [467] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:01:18 - [468] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread. Well, and lock criminals out of HS. Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:02:06 - [469] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next? Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird. I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No. They are not granting my wishes according to ganking. They are fixing their broke ass security status / faction police system so that it does something meaningful. Goon fleet gankers have shown that it does not work for their type of criminal behavior. The fact that when faction police are chasing you, you cannot fly anything cruiser or higher as more than likely it will be shot before you could get to an intended target is not meaningful? Imagine the destruction that would ensue if you could that same fleet of 120 people and turn it into 4 talos fleets. So yes ganking with 100+ people in a fleet with destroyers is possible but with Faction Police it greatly reduces your options as far as being able to kill something.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:02:06 - [470] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank? Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27836	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:02:29 - [471] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. 3 strikes is only policy in one country AFAIK, it has the highest incarceration rate on the planet and people serving long sentences for misdemeanours, it also allows correctional facilities to be run for profit. There are many other problems with the 3 strikes system that I won't go into here because it'd break the rules about political discussion. Hardly a glowing example of impartial justice, nor a model that anybody else should emulate. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:03:06 - [472] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:03:15 - [473] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen? Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank. Got any numbers to support that. I don't think I said it wouldn't reduce ganking. I pointed out it gave rise to professional ganking and yet here we are again with BadsGäó asking for "one more nerf and it will be balanced." Yeah, balance it, not take the fun out of it. They have sown that you can over eat all day long in highsec and no one in your corp ever has to pay for a sub again. Let the chump freighter pilots pay for it. Even at only hauling a bil, there is plenty of profit to be made when you do it after each 15min timer.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 388	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:03:26 - [474] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Wander Prian wrote: This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread. Well, and lock criminals out of HS. Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:05:47 - [475] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:05:56 - [476] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wander Prian wrote: This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread. Well, and lock criminals out of HS. Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE man, you just like to argue. We have discussed that its about being accountable to your security status if you are a criminal and want to play in highsec all the time. 3 accounts, 3 personalities. There is nothing to get all bent up about.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:06:01 - [477] - Quote No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:06:26 - [478] - Quote Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to. Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up. Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect. -EHP buffs to both miners and freighters -faster responses from concord -Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord -Insurance removed -Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules -Kill rights becoming public It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6006	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:06:46 - [479] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wander Prian wrote: This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread. Well, and lock criminals out of HS. Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE My God...they want to turn HS into a U.S. college campus run by a bunch of SJW...could be fun once they all turn on each other.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:07:21 - [480] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:08:59 - [481] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. Quote: This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. That would effectively lock them out. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:09:17 - [482] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to. Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up. Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect. -EHP buffs to both miners and freighters -faster responses from concord -Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord -Insurance removed -Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules -Kill rights becoming public It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it. actually its grown quite alot. Just a few months ago it was mainly kusion wrecking in uedema. (Im not talking miner ganks) Now Goons have seriously scaled up in Jita V - moon 17 station and pull in double and occasionally triple digit billions daily.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:09:21 - [483] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to. Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up. Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect. -EHP buffs to both miners and freighters -faster responses from concord -Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord -Insurance removed -Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules -Kill rights becoming public It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it. Do you have any evidences to prove that? Remember that back in the days, there was WAAAAAY lesser peoples playing EVE. So you should rather look at the number of gankings / total players in EVE and then see on how the ganking today actually is compared to the old days. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:09:27 - [484] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: We are glad its fun. OP has no intention of trying to end that fun, just fix the system to deal with out of control goon gank fleets. Its precisely what you are trying to end, by making it such a chore to maintain that no one wants to do it. Out of control? what does out of control even look like? Bearing in mind how much you've lied in this thread and everytime i ask you to link what makes you think its so bad you dont. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:09:56 - [485] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do? I think a player can have fun trying to avoid that fate, I know I do. Like I said, it depends on your attitude. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:10:29 - [486] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank? There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:11:34 - [487] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 388	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:12:23 - [488] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27838	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:12:37 - [489] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do? If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:12:59 - [490] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. Quote: This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. That would effectively lock them out. no it would not. It would require them to lower their security status between ganks so that they stayed within the given systems phase one limit. This means spending some of the gank isk on repair tags and mabye even some mission running / rat killing. Obviously tags would be the easiest way. The economic tag availability would control the gank abilities and keep it honest.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:13:17 - [491] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen? Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank. Got any numbers to support that. I don't think I said it wouldn't reduce ganking. I pointed out it gave rise to professional ganking and yet here we are again with BadsGäó asking for "one more nerf and it will be balanced." Yeah, balance it, not take the fun out of it. They have shown that you can over-eat all day long in highsec and no one in your corp ever has to pay for a sub again. Let the chump freighter pilots pay for it. Even at only hauling a bil max in a freighter, there is plenty of profit to be made when you do it after each 15min timer. You are not talking about something that can be balanced. You can't fix stupid. If a player does something stupid there is a good chance they'll suffer the consequences. It has happened to all of us. And I have a freighter/JF alt, so it is not like I'm not out there taking these risks too, I just minimize/manage them. And would stop bringing up the loot drops/ISK side? You get so prissy and whiny whenever somebody points out it is the result of imprudent players and something CCP should and probably cannot do anything about. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:14:06 - [492] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Do you have any evidences to prove that? Remember that back in the days, there was WAAAAAY lesser peoples playing EVE. So you should rather look at the number of gankings / total players in EVE and then see on how the ganking today actually is compared to the old days. Erm, yeah, so less players but more ganking = more ganking per player. Yeah i could quickly prove that my barge has taken more shots in previous years than this last few, and given more time could use zkill to see how many freighters die in this last year compared to previous. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:14:10 - [493] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do? If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:14:31 - [494] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. Quote: This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. That would effectively lock them out. no it would not. It would require them to lower their security status between ganks so that they stayed within the given systems phase one limit. This means spending some of the gank isk on repair tags and mabye even some mission running / rat killing. Obviously tags would be the easiest way. The economic tag availability would control the gank abilities and keep it honest. Then they aren't criminals then are they. So you would effectively lock out criminals...until they are no long criminals. Jesus, you are amazingly dishonest. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:15:15 - [495] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:16:59 - [496] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. That would basically make 2 different kinds of criminals, while both would have the same standing. Which would mean a special-case coding, which is terribly crude and CCP doesn't like doing that, meaning not gonna happen (This is just a "what if" since I've yet to see zero proof of this "issue") Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:17:10 - [497] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erm, yeah, so less players but more ganking = more ganking per player. Yeah i could quickly prove that my barge has taken more shots in previous years than this last few, and given more time could use zkill to see how many freighters die in this last year compared to previous. Again, where is the proof on your claims? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:17:29 - [498] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to. Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up. Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect. -EHP buffs to both miners and freighters -faster responses from concord -Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord -Insurance removed -Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules -Kill rights becoming public It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it. actually its grown quite alot. Just a few months ago it was mainly kusion wrecking in uedema. (Im not talking miner ganks) Now Goons have seriously scaled up in Jita V - moon 17 station and pull in double and occasionally triple digit billions daily. Nope. Miniluv has been around for quite awhile. Years in fact. And the rule of thumb for Goons appears to be: 6 billion or more--gank it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27841	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:18:30 - [499] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Remember that back in the days, there was WAAAAAY lesser peoples playing EVE. So you should rather look at the number of gankings / total players in EVE and then see on how the ganking today actually is compared to the old days. You're misrepresenting the facts. The period covering 2008 to 2014 would beg to differ, online numbers were higher then than they have been in the period since, only with the introduction of Alpha clones have the numbers jumped back to similar levels. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:18:53 - [500] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank? There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit.

Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 389	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:19:07 - [501] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. That would basically make 2 different kinds of criminals, while both would have the same standing. Which would mean a special-case coding, which is terribly crude and CCP doesn't like doing that, meaning not gonna happen (This is just a "what if" since I've yet to see zero proof of this "issue") Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations. The game also discourages you from shooting another in highsec, unless you are at war or they have a suspect/criminal timer or a low enough sec-status. The players also discourage hauling too expensive amounts of loot in a single ship by suicide-ganking ships, yet for some reason, the haulers just keep packing it all in to one ship time and again... Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:20:04 - [502] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit. It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27841	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:20:43 - [503] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:21:30 - [504] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3785	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:22:44 - [505] - Quote Takes time Nightmare EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:24:02 - [506] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. Quote: This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. That would effectively lock them out. no it would not. It would require them to lower their security status between ganks so that they stayed within the given systems phase one limit. This means spending some of the gank isk on repair tags and mabye even some mission running / rat killing. Obviously tags would be the easiest way. The economic tag availability would control the gank abilities and keep it honest. Then they aren't criminals then are they. So you would effectively lock out criminals...until they are no long criminals. Jesus, you are amazingly dishonest. no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:24:26 - [507] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. Those consequences are way to low. That's why EVE needs a new system where the criminals gets punished harder the more crimes they do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:25:04 - [508] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:27:11 - [509] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status. Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:27:50 - [510] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:27:57 - [511] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship. Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:28:59 - [512] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots. They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk. FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above. And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:29:58 - [513] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status. Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game. I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:30:23 - [514] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. No, he want to make it harder to keep ganking the more you do it. It's totally different from preventing ganking or reducing it. All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:32:44 - [515] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots. They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk. FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above. And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along. try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships). You can fly around in highsec in a pod or shuttle all you want with a -10.0 status. No one is getting locked out of anything.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:33:06 - [516] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status. Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game. I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP. I did, and you want "phase 2" sec status players scrammed and webbed by gates while the FacPo move in. Also, being webbed and scrammed, presumably even in a pod, because IIRC, your OP says nothing about pods or even shuttles being exempt. If they are scrammed and webbed other players can shoot them too. They are effectively locked out. Once they jump into HS space they sit there on the gate waiting to die. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:03 - [517] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship. Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:24 - [518] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships). Dude, can you grow up? No really? Become an adult as opposed to a man-child. You keep bringing up risk vs. reward. Then you get all whiny and petulant when others respond. If you don't like the response...don't bring it up. Brat. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27842	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:25 - [519] - Quote NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like clever and smart people. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:37:00 - [520] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch. Not empty quoting. This basically gives other the opportunity for content. But most HS players are too self-centered to even realize it. Most freighter pilots are so insular they wouldn't know someone was trying to help even if they have been bumped for an hour. Erich has chosen the least appreciative players to champion. Erich...they pretty much don't like you at all. Because they don't like most other players. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:40 - [521] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. Again not empty quoting. Why is it outrageous to expect the freighter pilots to actually manage their risk? Nope instead, we'll change the mechanics. Stomp on non-gankers with negative sec status...all in the name of helping out players who won't even thank you for it. Chances are they'll just load up all that more stuff into their freighters and when a 30 billion freighter is ganked, the OP will be back here complaining that Goons are bad. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:48 - [522] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. That would basically make 2 different kinds of criminals, while both would have the same standing. Which would mean a special-case coding, which is terribly crude and CCP doesn't like doing that, meaning not gonna happen (This is just a "what if" since I've yet to see zero proof of this "issue") Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations. The game also discourages you from shooting another in highsec, unless you are at war or they have a suspect/criminal timer or a low enough sec-status. The players also discourage hauling too expensive amounts of loot in a single ship by suicide-ganking ships, yet for some reason, the haulers just keep packing it all in to one ship time and again... Maybe its because freighters are so expensive, contracts collaterals are so high, that is the only way to make anything decent. Which for the risk being taken its all **** income if you ask me.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:52 - [523] - Quote @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:42:18 - [524] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Maybe its because freighters are so expensive, contracts collaterals are so high, that is the only way to make anything decent. Which for the risk being taken its all **** income if you ask me. Seems like Red Frog does all right though. Manage your risk. That is a major component of this game. It is a competitive game. If you do not manage your risk well others will take advantage of it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:43:18 - [525] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? You should pretty much always triple bulkhead fit your freighter if it is empty, IMO. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 948	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:43:20 - [526] - Quote 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:01 - [527] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit. It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers. No its the massive cost of ships and battles in low and null sec that gave us gankers. People would rather steal isk for plex and ships than pay for it. Its just that the stealing is out of hand because ganking is to easy / uncontrolled and freighter pilots have to take on massive risk to make a minimal profit.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27845	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:09 - [528] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf will fix ganking. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:15 - [529] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? The OP wants less ganking. Wants people will low sec status (see the OP for details) essentially locked out of HS, and doesn't have a clue about risk vs. reward. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:25 - [530] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:55 - [531] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? you can think Teckos Pech for that... He like hearing himself talk.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:45:18 - [532] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf. An even better summary. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:47:22 - [533] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. Again not empty quoting. Why is it outrageous to expect the freighter pilots to actually manage their risk? Nope instead, we'll change the mechanics. Stomp on non-gankers with negative sec status...all in the name of helping out players who won't even thank you for it. Chances are they'll just load up all that more stuff into their freighters and when a 30 billion freighter is ganked, the OP will be back here complaining that Goons are bad. How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Didn't i just talk about that the gankers is the only one that will get a harder time doing the gankings the more they do it? I have never said anything about making it more impossible to do ganking. All that's been said from me is that the gankers has to work much harder to be able to keep doing their crimes with the new system. That's all. But you are to stubborn to actually see this. So please go on with your trolling. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf will fix ganking. Or balance it more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:49:11 - [534] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:49:51 - [535] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit. It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers. No its the massive cost of ships and battles in low and null sec that gave us gankers. People would rather steal isk for plex and ships than pay for it. Its just that the stealing is out of hand because ganking is to easy / uncontrolled and freighter pilots have to take on massive risk to make a minimal profit. No, you are wrong and don't know the games history. It was possible to gank in t1 fit battle ships because the suicide ganker would get insurance from CONCORD killing his ship. However, ganking was far more desultory. It happened, but wasn't nearly as organized/professional as it is now. As there were more and more nerfs suicide ganking of freighters became more and more organized and techniques refined to where it is now. Wars in NS have nothing to do with it. NS alliances would bring in a crap ton of ISK with moon mining, rental empires, and taxes from things like POCOs and ratting. Plus alliances like Goons really know how to work the markets. Miniluv is a profit center, but that is not what Goons need. If CCP eliminated ganking tomorrow Goons would still be filthy stinking rich. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27845	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:51:03 - [536] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The gankers already work hard in order to continue ganking because most of them have a sec status that attracts the attention of the faction police and opens them up to attack from anybody. Quote: The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. That's the point, most of them aren't doing anything at all beyond undocking and hitting autopilot, they're mindless morons. What you and the OP want to do is punish people who have to work hard to achieve their goals, and simultaneously reward those that do nothing but the absolute bare minimum required. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:53:18 - [537] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The gankers already work hard in order to continue ganking because most of them have a sec status that attracts the attention of the faction police and opens them up to attack from anybody. Quote: The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. That's the point, most of them aren't doing anything at all beyond undocking and hitting autopilot. What you and the OP want to do is punish people who have to work hard to achieve their goals, and simultaneously reward those that do nothing but the absolute bare minimum required. No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right? No, we want to let EVE punish the criminals who break the rules of high sec harder and harder the more crimes they do, like everyone would do. And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:53:48 - [538] - Quote NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:15 - [539] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates. If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:43 - [540] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. Thats the point of the OP... Im glad you understand finally. They would be taking responsibility for their criminal actions if they want to play in highsec criminally all day long.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:53 - [541] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid. If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:00:59 - [542] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right? No, we want to let EVE punish the criminals who break the rules of high sec harder and harder the more crimes they do, like everyone would do. And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it. And as usual the anti-ganker dishonesty comes through. Lets ignore all the logistics work to get those ships in place. Lets ignore the work of the scanning ships, the bumpers, and the guy pulling CONCORD, the guy suicide scramming, and the fact that it is 25 guys in fleet. All to take down one foolish pilot who put way too much cargo value into his ship. Yup. It is so easy it practically happens without any effort at all. What a completely dishonest pile of bullcrap. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:01:57 - [543] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid. If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point. What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27845	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:04:06 - [544] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right? Your ignorance is showing. There is a whole logistics chain associated with suicide ganking, when they move into a new AO they ship in their tools by the hundreds, some poor sap has to fit and distribute them, someone bookmarks and distributes instawarps and safespots, they use scouts, they use warpin ships, they manipulate Concord spawn times while remaining within the rules etc etc. You only think it's easy because you can't see beyond the end of your nose. Quote: And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it. I read it, it's nonsense. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:04:16 - [545] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer? And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what? You still don't see the issue? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:08:04 - [546] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer? And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what? You still don't see the issue? It's simple. If you want to continue doing crimes in high sec, then fix your security status. If you want to stop them doing crime in hisec, shoot them in the face. It's that simple. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:08:51 - [547] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer? And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what? You still don't see the issue? It's simple. If you want to continue doing crimes in high sec, then fix your security status. Wait, you were complaining about 1 criminal. Now it is suddenly 10 or even 20. I don't expect you to get this, but the fact that it takes a sizeable number of people to gank a freighter is yet another constraint on ganking. And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:09:49 - [548] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Your ignorance is showing. There is a whole logistics chain associated with suicide ganking, when they move into a new AO they ship in their tools by the hundreds, some poor sap has to fit and distribute them, someone bookmarks and distributes instawarps and safespots, they use scouts, they use warpin ships, they manipulate Concord spawn times while remaining within the rules etc etc. You only think it's easy because you can't see beyond the end of your nose. There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a better criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do each day. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I read it, it's nonsense. You only say that because it makes your easy life of a ganker a bit harder. Teckos Pech wrote: Wait, you were complaining about 1 criminal. Now it is suddenly 10 or even 20. I don't expect you to get this, but the fact that it takes a sizeable number of people to gank a freighter is yet another constraint on ganking. And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem. Yeah, one dude / outlaw was just an example. Because if that gets applies to one outlaw, then every other outlaws will get affected by the same. So because of that, a bunch of gankers can't gank that easily anylonger after comitting crimes before (the same day). Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:11:31 - [549] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates. If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills? Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:12:05 - [550] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid. If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point. "should" I really hate it when people use this word. Your entire statement is all opinionated and you are entitled to that. These are things that "should" happen from ganking: I "should" lose the ship I use to gank I "should" lose security status I "should" earn a kill right I "should" earn a 15 minute criminal timer Your use of the word should suggests that there is a bug, or a manipulation people are using to perform these acts when in all reality they are legitimate legal tactics. If your going to make an opinion, own it.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:13:42 - [551] - Quote NightmareX wrote: There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over." That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue. I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:17:03 - [552] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over." That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue. I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant. Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3786	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:21:21 - [553] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:21:22 - [554] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over." That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue. I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant. Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy. Hpw did that ship get there? I'll give you a clue, they have a logistics chain which provides, fits and distributes them, that logistics chain and all the associated activities that ensure the gankers can hop into a prefitted ship and on undock warp to preprovided safespots is where 95% of the effort involved in ganking is. As I said, you can't see beyond the end of your nose. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3786	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:22:57 - [555] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals. and all those ships have to be bought, hauled and fit. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:23:44 - [556] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? STFU
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:24:17 - [557] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:24:35 - [558] - Quote And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:26:38 - [559] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? im not counting anything... links were asked for.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:33:50 - [560] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? im not counting anything... links were asked for. I beg to differ, you clearly stated 75+ bill for KarmaFleet in the last 7 days for their top 7 killers, where did that number come from? Was it based on the total value of the kills or the value of the loot? The loot being the one that matters, because that's where the 10's of billion a day in profit that you claim is being made comes from. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:35:45 - [561] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? im not counting anything... links were asked for. I beg to differ, you clearly stated 75+ bill for KarmaFleet in the last 7 days for their top 7 killers, where did that number come from? Was it based on the total value of the kills or the value of the loot? The loot being the one that matters, because that's where the 10's of billion a day in profit that you claim is being made comes from. The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:36:15 - [562] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hpw did that ship get there? I'll give you a clue, they have a logistics chain which provides, fits and distributes them, that logistics chain and all the associated activities that ensure the gankers can hop into a prefitted ship and on undock warp to preprovided safespots is where 95% of the effort involved in ganking is. As I said, you can't see beyond the end of your nose. This is about what you do as a criminal. Delivering ships somewhere is something everyone does all day long, so i'm not sure on why you takes that into the picture here when we are talking about the criminal activities some players are doing? Not only that, but if you comes from Jita and then do the gankings, you will already have everything on market there. So no need for any logistics in that case. Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals. and all those ships have to be bought, hauled and fit. Not if you comes from Jita like now with the Burn Jita event, duuuh. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:36:58 - [563] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing your status and that is the issue here.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:39:50 - [564] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing you status and that is the issue here. Yes that may be true but you have to bring 3 times as many people to perform it as a result. And that is just the people that are doing DPS let alone the rest of the support fleet.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:42:56 - [565] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hpw did that ship get there? I'll give you a clue, they have a logistics chain which provides, fits and distributes them, that logistics chain and all the associated activities that ensure the gankers can hop into a prefitted ship and on undock warp to preprovided safespots is where 95% of the effort involved in ganking is. As I said, you can't see beyond the end of your nose. This is about what you do as a criminal. Delivering ships somewhere is something everyone does all day long, so i'm not sure on why you takes that into the picture here when we are talking about the criminal activities some players are doing? Not only that, but if you comes from Jita and then do the gankings, you will already have everything on market there. So no need for any logistics in that case. Again, you miss the point. You're claiming that ganking is too easy, when provided evidence as to what actually goes into organising a ganking operation you dismiss it. As for ganking in Jita, for the most part they ship the stuff in themselves, they already have a logistics chain in place, they have no need to pay over inflated Jita market prices. The current operation in Jita took months of planning and coordination to organise. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:46:58 - [566] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing you status and that is the issue here. Yes that may be true but you have to bring 3 times as many people to perform it as a result. And that is just the people that are doing DPS let alone the rest of the support fleet. I know you are goons so you can only have one type of public opinion on it... but I think you understand why the OP was made.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:48:13 - [567] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides. I don't care about what the freighter pilot loses, their losses are the result of their choices. The loot drop is where the profit is, you've claimed that people are earning 1-10 billion every 15 minutes, those earnings come from the loot. If your figure is based on the kill value then your figures for the earnings from ganking are inherently flawed. So once again where did you get the figure of 75+ Billion for Karma Fleet? How much of it was loot, and how much are people earning from those kills? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:54:00 - [568] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing you status and that is the issue here. Yes that may be true but you have to bring 3 times as many people to perform it as a result. And that is just the people that are doing DPS let alone the rest of the support fleet. I know you are goons so you can only have one type of public opinion on it... but I think you understand why the OP was made. My opinions do not reflect that of my corp or my alliance. They are only my opinions as a player. This thread is a discussion in which I stated my opinions and you defended yours. The fact that I am a Goon does not mean that I HAVE to act, believe, or behave a certain way.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:55:42 - [569] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You're claiming that ganking is too easy, when provided evidence as to what actually goes into organising a ganking operation, you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your agenda. As for ganking in Jita, for the most part they ship the stuff in themselves, they already have a logistics chain in place, they have no need to pay over-inflated Jita market prices. The current operation in Jita took months of planning and coordination to organise. Ganking is easy once you have the ships in your hangar which is the whole point. The point is that you as a criminal can commit crimes / ganking way to easy once you have undocked. And on top of that continue to do that times after times without any more consequences. Let's keep to the point instead of bringing in other things that hasn't anything to do with doing the actual crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27846	Posted - 2017.02.27 03:04:10 - [570] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Ganking is easy once you have the ships in your hangar which is the whole point. The point is that you as a criminal can commit crimes / ganking way to easy once you have undocked. And on top of that continue to do that times after times without any more consequences. Yet again, you can't see past your own agenda. Quote: Let's keep to the point instead of bringing in other things that hasn't anything to do with doing the actual crimes. I am keeping to the point; what goes into organising a ganking operation has everything to do with your claim that ganking is too easy. I get that the truth doesn't fit in with your agenda, fortunately for me you don't get to dictate the content of my posts. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 03:21:53 - [571] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yet again, you can't see past your own agenda. Well, there is one problem with that argument. You haven't explained ANYTHING on why i'm wrong in what i'm saying here. I know it's dead easy to gank someone with small ships like a Destroyer once you have a fitted Destroyer ready to undock with. Everyone knows this. And this is what it's all about. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I am keeping to the point; what goes into organising a ganking operation has everything to do with your claim that ganking is too easy. No you don't, because doing logistics has nothing to do with the actual crimes of ganking. It's the consequences of ganking i'm talking about. Hauling ships somewhere has nothing to do with what a ganker does against someone. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I get that the truth doesn't fit in with your agenda, fortunately you don't get to dictate the content of my posts. Well, you better start explaining your arguments to what i'm saying in the first place before you start to claim things like that towards me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 11	Posted - 2017.02.27 03:23:45 - [572] - Quote Redacted
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:05:29 - [573] - Quote NightmareX wrote: And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem. Yeah, one dude / outlaw was just an example. Because if that gets applies to one outlaw, then every other outlaws will get affected by the same. So because of that, a bunch of gankers can't gank that easily anylonger after comitting crimes before (the same day).[/quote] But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:06:35 - [574] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates. If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills? Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. Just look at the 5.96t vs 14bil in losses. Dude, you are aware Burn Jita is going one, right? As such freighter ganking stats are going to be incredibly biased. You are looking at an outlier FFS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:08:34 - [575] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? STFU A quality argument there. And from the guy who appears to be totally clueless that Burn Jita has been going on for over 24 hours--i.e. your data is heavily influenced by an event that is aperiodic and hard to predict. What we in the statistics profession call and outlier. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:13:11 - [576] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides. Derp-dee-derp-dee-derp. The potential loot drop is what determines who gets ganked or not. So, 7 kills and 75 billion in loot. Let's subtract of 20 billion in hull value (and overestimate) which means that 55 million in loot. It means that on average, about 7.9 billion was in those ships of which 3.9 billion dropped in loot. Now...why was that possible? It was possible because freighter pilots put about 7.9 billion worth cargo into their cargo hold. If they had not done that, there would be nothing to post about. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:35:24 - [577] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:41:23 - [578] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides. Derp-dee-derp-dee-derp. The potential loot drop is what determines who gets ganked or not. So, 7 kills and 75 billion in loot. Let's subtract of 20 billion in hull value (and overestimate) which means that 55 million in loot. It means that on average, about 7.9 billion was in those ships of which 3.9 billion dropped in loot. Now...why was that possible? It was possible because freighter pilots put about 7.9 billion worth cargo into their cargo hold. If they had not done that, there would be nothing to post about. Lets just look at 5.9t vs 14bil.... and thats just karma fleet (burn jita events must be off the chain since this doesn't happen outside the burn jita events.)
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 715	Posted - 2017.02.27 05:24:41 - [579] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. this mofos doesn't know the mechanics and lore... CONCORD won't do what you or the OP suggest ever, they're only humans and are very much wary of us capsuleers. infact, they are already losing control, anymore intervention and impartiality will cause an all out war between capsuleers and they dont want that to happen. the only thing that holds this system is that us capsuleers are emphatic, if they make a move that will make capsuleers rally on to something against them is the time CONCORD dies. Just Add Water
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 05:46:31 - [580] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. this mofos doesn't know the mechanics and lore... CONCORD won't do what you or the OP suggest ever, they're only humans and are very much wary of us capsuleers. infact, they are already losing control, anymore intervention and impartiality will cause an all out war between capsuleers and they dont want that to happen. the only thing that holds this system is that us capsuleers are emphatic, if they make a move that will make capsuleers rally on to something against them is the time CONCORD dies. Hence the edit in the OP: CONCORD -> Faction Police

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:18:02 - [581] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You're claiming that ganking is too easy, when provided evidence as to what actually goes into organising a ganking operation, you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your agenda. As for ganking in Jita, for the most part they ship the stuff in themselves, they already have a logistics chain in place, they have no need to pay over-inflated Jita market prices. The current operation in Jita took months of planning and coordination to organise. Ganking is easy once you have the ships in your hangar which is the whole point. The point is that you as a criminal can commit crimes / ganking way to easy once you have undocked. And on top of that continue to do that times after times without any more consequences. Let's keep to the point instead of bringing in other things that hasn't anything to do with doing the actual crimes. Yes, lets assume away all the hard work of various people and then yes, it is easy. And of course completely and totally dishonest. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:19:27 - [582] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Your non-answer is duly noted. You were claiming that 10 criminals jump into HS, and then fleet up. But it can't just be 10 random criminals can it. They might very well shoot each other as the freighter. It is your boneheaded assumptions that are the problem here. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 369	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:19:30 - [583] - Quote Nightmarex, have you ever ganked before? HTFU
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:22:27 - [584] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides. Derp-dee-derp-dee-derp. The potential loot drop is what determines who gets ganked or not. So, 7 kills and 75 billion in loot. Let's subtract of 20 billion in hull value (and overestimate) which means that 55 million in loot. It means that on average, about 7.9 billion was in those ships of which 3.9 billion dropped in loot. Now...why was that possible? It was possible because freighter pilots put about 7.9 billion worth cargo into their cargo hold. If they had not done that, there would be nothing to post about. Lets just look at 5.9t vs 14bil.... and thats just karma fleet (burn jita events must be off the chain since this doesn't happen outside the burn jita events.) Kusion: 9.48t vs 31bil - a solo gank pilot Solo gank with multiple pilots. But why does he get 9.48 trillion? And have you separated out hull value vs. drop value? What? You haven't? Geee. How about how many JFs vs. freighters? Have you categorized the kill value vs. loss value by that category? No? Well ** son, you have some work to do don't you. Throwing around big numbers doesn't mean ** if they aren't put into context. Did you ever take a statistics course? Can you eve-mail me the professor's name? I want to contact him and have him give you and F retroactively. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6009	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:23:24 - [585] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. this mofos doesn't know the mechanics and lore... CONCORD won't do what you or the OP suggest ever, they're only humans and are very much wary of us capsuleers. infact, they are already losing control, anymore intervention and impartiality will cause an all out war between capsuleers and they dont want that to happen. the only thing that holds this system is that us capsuleers are emphatic, if they make a move that will make capsuleers rally on to something against them is the time CONCORD dies. Hi Nat, your late to the party, but better late than not at all. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6010	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:28:09 - [586] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Nightmarex, have you ever ganked before? Good question. Jonah is not really a "shoot them in the face kind of guy" and that's cool. But he has actually gone a couple of gank fleets just to see what it was like. And based on his posts it was a informative experience. I think every BadGäó should do what Jonah did. Just try it and see what it is like. You don't have to like or keep on doing it, but see what it actually takes. Instead of making assumptions have an honest and up front discussion with people who gank freighters. You probably won't get to talk to the head-honchos, but talk to some of the people who do it. If your lucky maybe you can talk to the poor sod who fits the ships and puts them on contracts. Granted, my understanding is CCP has made that easier, but back in the day that was some serious work. This notion that "ganking is easy money" is just too stupid to believe. Anyone saying that has not had to put 300 ships on contract. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:30:24 - [587] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Your non-answer is duly noted. You were claiming that 10 criminals jump into HS, and then fleet up. But it can't just be 10 random criminals can it. They might very well shoot each other as the freighter. It is your boneheaded assumptions that are the problem here. The point is still that they can go in together by ganking something juicy and still be able to do that without any more consequences other than having to wait 15 mins. It's that what we are talking about. And that 15 minute timer is the problem. It's way to short when you start to gank more and more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:30:26 - [588] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. this mofos doesn't know the mechanics and lore... CONCORD won't do what you or the OP suggest ever, they're only humans and are very much wary of us capsuleers. infact, they are already losing control, anymore intervention and impartiality will cause an all out war between capsuleers and they dont want that to happen. the only thing that holds this system is that us capsuleers are emphatic, if they make a move that will make capsuleers rally on to something against them is the time CONCORD dies. Hence the edit in the OP: CONCORD -> Faction Police so how can a single major faction (ex. caldari) control capsuleers if CONCORD itself which is supported by not only 1, but by 4 major factions, can not? not to mention the fact that caldari (for jita) are full of whimps and are incompetent, what do you expect them to accomplish against powerful capsuleers?! Just Add Water
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:31:30 - [589] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. this mofos doesn't know the mechanics and lore... CONCORD won't do what you or the OP suggest ever, they're only humans and are very much wary of us capsuleers. infact, they are already losing control, anymore intervention and impartiality will cause an all out war between capsuleers and they dont want that to happen. the only thing that holds this system is that us capsuleers are emphatic, if they make a move that will make capsuleers rally on to something against them is the time CONCORD dies. Hi Nat, your late to the party, but better late than not at all. o7 Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6010	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:32:45 - [590] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Your non-answer is duly noted. You were claiming that 10 criminals jump into HS, and then fleet up. But it can't just be 10 random criminals can it. They might very well shoot each other as the freighter. It is your boneheaded assumptions that are the problem here. The point is still that they can go in together by ganking something juicy and still be able to do that without any more consequences other than having to wait 15 mins. It's that what we are talking about. And that 15 minute timer is the problem. It's way to short when you start to gank more and more. No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:35:14 - [591] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder the more ganks or crimes you do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 370	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:38:26 - [592] - Quote Hi Nightmarex. I noticed you ignored my question so I will ask it again. Have you ever ganked before? I assume you've done lots of freighter ganking and know the ins and outs of the mechanics and such. Can you please indulge us on your personal experience with ganking? HTFU
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:41:33 - [593] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Your non-answer is duly noted. You were claiming that 10 criminals jump into HS, and then fleet up. But it can't just be 10 random criminals can it. They might very well shoot each other as the freighter. It is your boneheaded assumptions that are the problem here. The point is still that they can go in together by ganking something juicy and still be able to do that without any more consequences other than having to wait 15 mins. It's that what we are talking about. And that 15 minute timer is the problem. It's way to short when you start to gank more and more. unless you provide any evidence that the rate of ganked freighter compared to the freighters that travels to the jita pipe line and are on auto pilots are high, 15 mins are infact short and needs to be further reduced, i say to 2 mins for balance. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:42:30 - [594] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Hi Nightmarex. I noticed you ignored my question so I will ask it again. Have you ever ganked before? I assume you've done lots of freighter ganking and know the ins and outs of the mechanics and such. Can you please indulge us on your personal experience with ganking? I have been playing EVE since early 2004, so i'm pretty sure i know most mechanics in EVE. And to answer your question. Yes, i have been ganking stuffs (not telling you what i have been ganking though) sometimes since i started to play EVE. But the mechanics behind ganking is super easy to understand anyways, so you don't have to be a rocket scientists to understand the whole picture of it. It's not hard to understand that a criminal should face harder and harder penalties the more crimes they do in empire, like it has been for every types of criminals where there are police to bust the criminals in real life forever. Nat Silverguard wrote: unless you provide any evidence that the rate of ganked freighter compared to the freighters that travels to the jita pipe line and are on auto pilots are high, 15 mins are infact short and needs to be further reduced, i say to 2 mins for balance. Not sure if i should laugh or cry to that. That post clearly shows that you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27850	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:42:39 - [595] - Quote @ Faylee There's an epidemic of it. I'm waiting for an answer to a question I asked 20 odd pages ago. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6012	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:50:23 - [596] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6012	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:52:43 - [597] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: Hi Nightmarex. I noticed you ignored my question so I will ask it again. Have you ever ganked before? I assume you've done lots of freighter ganking and know the ins and outs of the mechanics and such. Can you please indulge us on your personal experience with ganking? I have been playing EVE since early 2004, so i'm pretty sure i know most mechanics in EVE. Yada yada yada....what is your experience with ganking please? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:53:46 - [598] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. Again, logistics has nothing to do with what you do with the ships AFTER you have got them. How hard is this to understand? I'm talking about the consequences you should face AFTER you have committed a crime / gank with your ships. Yes, once you have started your ganking event or something, you will already have a butt load of them ready in station that you just just jump into and undock to gank another victim without any more consequences than the 15 minute Concord timer. This is not hard to understand and you have to be incredible stupid to not understand that doing crimes out in space has nothing to do with the logistics behind getting a ship to a station. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:56:12 - [599] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: unless you provide any evidence that the rate of ganked freighter compared to the freighters that travels to the jita pipe line and are on auto pilots are high, 15 mins are infact short and needs to be further reduced, i say to 2 mins for balance. This has nothing to do with how many freighters that are ganked. It has ONLY to do with the consequences a ganker is facing for doing the same crimes over and over again with the current system that is the problem. ok, so how much of this activity impact the whole freighting business, if not at all, to warrant a change? take note, if you are making this change and it is not to address the frieghter ganking, then you can take this petition and shove it up your a**, we don't need this non-sense. Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:56:34 - [600] - Quote According to zkillboard NightmareX has killed 4 freighters and 1 jump freighter. Two of the freighters we killed in LS and 2 in HS, the two HS kills appear to be war decs. And the JF kill was clearly a HS war dec. So, pretty much no ganking experience at all. None. Now that that is settled.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:57:21 - [601] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. Again, logistics has nothing to do with what you do with the ships AFTER you have got them. How hard is this to understand? I'm talking about the consequences you should face AFTER you have committed a crime / gank with your ships. Yes, once you have started your ganking event or something, you will already have a butt load of them ready in station that you can just jump into and undock to gank another victim right away without getting any more consequences than the normal 15 minute Concord timer. Yey, such a hard task right there. This is not hard to understand and you have to be incredible stupid to not understand that doing crimes out in space with a PVP fitted ship has nothing to do with the logistics behind getting a ship to a station. Teckos Pech wrote: Yada yada yada....what is your experience with ganking please? I will tell you that when you can explain to me what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:57:39 - [602] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: According to zkillboard NightmareX has killed 4 freighters and 1 jump freighter. Two of the freighters we killed in LS and 2 in HS, the two HS kills appear to be war decs. And the JF kill was clearly a HS war dec. So, pretty much no ganking experience at all. None. Now that that is settled.... Have you heard about having alts? Again, i'm not gonna explain you anything when you can't even explain what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated to me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:59:01 - [603] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27853	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:59:20 - [604] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. Again, logistics has nothing to do with what you do with the ships AFTER you have got them. How hard is this to understand? I'm talking about the consequences you should face AFTER you have committed a crime / gank with your ships. Yes, once you have started your ganking event or something, you will already have a butt load of them ready in station that you can just jump into and undock to gank another victim right away without getting any more consequences than the normal 15 minute Concord timer. Yey, such a hard task right there. This is not hard to understand and you have to be incredible stupid to not understand that doing crimes out in space with a PVP fitted ship has nothing to do with the logistics behind getting a ship to a station. You are aware that in the real world, which you keep referencing, the act of knowingly helping criminals with support or equipment is a crime. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:01:08 - [605] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. Again, logistics has nothing to do with what you do with the ships AFTER you have got them. How hard is this to understand? I'm talking about the consequences you should face AFTER you have committed a crime / gank with your ships. Yes, once you have started your ganking event or something, you will already have a butt load of them ready in station that you can just jump into and undock to gank another victim right away without getting any more consequences than the normal 15 minute Concord timer. Yey, such a hard task right there. This is not hard to understand and you have to be incredible stupid to not understand that doing crimes out in space with a PVP fitted ship has nothing to do with the logistics behind getting a ship to a station. You are aware that in the real world, which you keep referencing, that the act of knowingly helping criminals with support or equipment is a crime. Not to mention that wars are won and lost based on logistics. But noooope, lets ignore all that because it does not fit with the narrative. Totally dishonest nonsense. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:01:33 - [606] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You are aware that in the real world, which you keep referencing, that the act of knowingly helping criminals with support or equipment is a crime. Yes, but there is no way for Concord to find out that a Freighter pilot is going to deliver ships to a bunch of criminals. In real life you can figure that more easy out, because of investigators who will find things like this out. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:01:53 - [607] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: According to zkillboard NightmareX has killed 4 freighters and 1 jump freighter. Two of the freighters we killed in LS and 2 in HS, the two HS kills appear to be war decs. And the JF kill was clearly a HS war dec. So, pretty much no ganking experience at all. None. Now that that is settled.... Have you heard about having alts? Again, i'm not gonna explain you anything when you can't even explain what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated to me. Well, post your ganking alts then so we can see. You keep asking for proof, now here is your chance to lead by example. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:03:32 - [608] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:03:51 - [609] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Well, post your ganking alts then so we can see. You keep asking for proof, now here is your chance to lead by example. Like i said earlier to you, i asked first. Deliver your proof of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:04:20 - [610] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You are aware that in the real world, which you keep referencing, that the act of knowingly helping criminals with support or equipment is a crime. Yes, but there is no way for Concord to find out that a Freighter pilot is going to deliver ships to a bunch of criminals. In real life you can figure that more easy out, because of investigators who will find things like this out. Uhhh no, you were the one to keep referencing the real world. The rest of us were fine sticking with in game references. You made your bed, now lie in it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:05:22 - [611] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? so what happens if the gankers don't have ships to use? suddenly your '15 min criminal timer' is not too long and irrelevant anymore, yes? Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:05:38 - [612] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. Like i said, no one cares about how it got into the station. We only cares about how it gets out of the station and what you do with it out in space. There is a difference from getting something into a station to what you do with a ship after undocking it. Logic doesn't seems to be your strong points here, that's for sure. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:06:16 - [613] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Well, post your ganking alts then so we can see. You keep asking for proof, now here is your chance to lead by example. Like i said earlier to you, i asked first. Deliver your proof of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated. Nope, this is a new claim. Either post the name of your ganking alt(s) so we can see or we'll just assume this is another dishonest representation. BTW, for the record I have claimed to only gank on this character. You can go check zkillboard too. You'll see all the freighter and JF killmails I'm on. I would bet 99.9% coincide with Burn events too. I have not had a chance to kill a freighter or JF in LS or NS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:07:40 - [614] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Well, post your ganking alts then so we can see. You keep asking for proof, now here is your chance to lead by example. Like i said earlier to you, i asked first. Deliver your proof of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated. nope, you still didn't justify that recurring ganks are bad and needs to be changed. you presented alot of false equivalencies and fallacies that won't convince anybody let alone CCP Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6013	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:07:59 - [615] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. Like i said, no one cares about how it got into the station. We only cares about how it gets out of the station and what you do with it out in space. There is a difference from getting something into a station to what you do with a ship after undocking it. Logic doesn't seems to be your strong points here, that's for sure. But that is a just simply a lie...which makes you a liar. A ganker cannot simply reship if somebody did not spend the hours to get those ships to that station/citadel for the ganker to reship into. One must precede the other. You keep wanting to skip this part, but I and others will keep bringing it up so that everyone can see how dishonest you are. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:10:15 - [616] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? so what happens if the gankers don't have ships to use? suddenly your '15 min criminal timer' is not too long and irrelevant anymore, yes? Tell me what gankers that doesn't already have a billion ships ready before they start ganking peoples? Because time is money for them and they doesn't have the time to sit there and re-fit a new ship everytime they lose a ship to Concord. So they will already have enough ships ready in station to be able to do ganking for weeks. But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:14:44 - [617] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. Like i said, no one cares about how it got into the station. We only cares about how it gets out of the station and what you do with it out in space. There is a difference from getting something into a station to what you do with a ship after undocking it. Logic doesn't seems to be your strong points here, that's for sure. But that is a just simply a lie...which makes you a liar. A ganker cannot simply reship if somebody did not spend the hours to get those ships to that station/citadel for the ganker to reship into. One must precede the other. You keep wanting to skip this part, but I and others will keep bringing it up so that everyone can see how dishonest you are. Keep to the point of what kind of consequences a criminal should face once they commit a crime or just leave this topic with your lame trolling. It doesn't help what kind of excuses you use when the whole point is that when the criminals DOES have a ship in station and then undocks and the ganks someone that is what this is all about. Not anything before that. Only what the criminal player does after they have undocked a ship no matter how rarely they would be able to get a ship or not. If they can get 1 million Destroyers into the station or if they only can do one gank before they are out of ships doesn't matter as it's the act of criminal acts after you have undocked a ship that is what i'm talking about. Keep to that or simply just stop making troll posts. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:19:29 - [618] - Quote NightmareX wrote: But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. so again, for the nth time, what are those consequences and it's veracity to warrant this change. Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27855	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:20:46 - [619] - Quote NightmareX Define Criminal. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:21:37 - [620] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27855	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:23:33 - [621] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:24:13 - [622] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. so again, for the nth time, what are those consequences and it's veracity to warrant this change. You don't get any more consequences or penalty other than the 15 minute Concord timer for doing ganks in high sec which i have said a million times that is the problem. It's simple to just jump into a new ship and keep doing the ganks without ANY more consequences than just the 15 minute Concord timer. Because of that, there should be a criminal system in EVE that punishes the criminals / gankers harder and harder the more crimes they do, which is a normal thing to do against criminals in the first place. What's so hard about this to understand? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:25:19 - [623] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? Ok, so you are basicly saying i know this better than you and have to explain this to you and teach you how this works? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27855	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:27:46 - [624] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? Ok, so you are basicly saying i know this better than you and have to explain this to you and teach you how this works? No, I'm asking you how you define criminal. I already know what a criminal in Eve is. It's a simple request, stop deflecting and answer the question. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:34:51 - [625] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? Ok, so you are basicly saying i know this better than you and have to explain this to you and teach you how this works? No, I'm asking you how you define criminal. I already know what a criminal in Eve is. It's a simple request, stop deflecting and answer the question. A criminal is someone who commit an act that is breaking the law. And by breaking the law, you should be punished harder and harder the more you breaks the law. This is a normal practice against criminals this way. When you look at what a criminal in real life is............ In ordinary language, a crime is an unlawful act punishable by a state or other authority. The term "crime" does not, in modern criminal law, have any simple and universally accepted definition, though statutory definitions have been provided for certain purposes. The most popular view is that crime is a category created by law; in other words, something is a crime if declared as such by the relevant and applicable law. One proposed definition is that a crime or offence (or criminal offence) is an act harmful not only to some individual or individuals but also to a community, society or the state ("a public wrong"). Such acts are forbidden and punishable by law. The notion that acts such as murder, ** and theft are to be prohibited exists worldwide. What precisely is a criminal offence is defined by criminal law of each country. While many have a catalogue of crimes called the criminal code, in some common law countries no such comprehensive statute exists. The state (government) has the power to severely restrict one's liberty for committing a crime. In modern societies, there are procedures to which investigations and trials must adhere. If found guilty, an offender may be sentenced to a form of reparation such as a community sentence, or, depending on the nature of their offence, to undergo imprisonment, life imprisonment or, in some jurisdictions, execution. Usually, to be classified as a crime, the "act of doing something criminal" (actus reus) must GÇô with certain exceptions GÇô be accompanied by the "intention to do something criminal" (mens rea). While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime. Breaches of private law (torts and breaches of contract) are not automatically punished by the state, but can be enforced through civil procedure. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27855	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:41:00 - [626] - Quote NightmareX wrote: A criminal is someone who commit an act that is breaking the law. And by breaking the law, you should be punished harder and harder the more you breaks the law. This is a normal practice against crininals this way. When you look at what a criminal in real life is............ In ordinary language, a crime is an unlawful act punishable by a state or other authority. The term "crime" does not, in modern criminal law, have any simple and universally accepted definition, though statutory definitions have been provided for certain purposes. The most popular view is that crime is a category created by law; in other words, something is a crime if declared as such by the relevant and applicable law. One proposed definition is that a crime or offence (or criminal offence) is an act harmful not only to some individual or individuals but also to a community, society or the state ("a public wrong"). Such acts are forbidden and punishable by law. The notion that acts such as murder, **** and theft are to be prohibited exists worldwide. What precisely is a criminal offence is defined by criminal law of each country. While many have a catalogue of crimes called the criminal code, in some common law countries no such comprehensive statute exists. The state (government) has the power to severely restrict one's liberty for committing a crime. In modern societies, there are procedures to which investigations and trials must adhere. If found guilty, an offender may be sentenced to a form of reparation such as a community sentence, or, depending on the nature of their offence, to undergo imprisonment, life imprisonment or, in some jurisdictions, execution. Usually, to be classified as a crime, the "act of doing something criminal" (actus reus) must GÇô with certain exceptions GÇô be accompanied by the "intention to do something criminal" (mens rea). While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime. Breaches of private law (torts and breaches of contract) are not automatically punished by the state, but can be enforced through civil procedure. Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanical definition of somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:52:15 - [627] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6014	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:53:28 - [628] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Keep to the point of what kind of consequences a criminal should face once they commit a crime or just leave this topic with your lame trolling. It doesn't help what kind of excuses you use when the whole point is that when the criminals DOES have a ship in station and then undocks and then ganks someone that is what this is all about. Not anything before that. Only what the criminal player does after they have undocked a ship no matter how rarely they would be able to get a ship or not. If they can get 1 million Destroyers into the station or if they only can do one gank before they are out of ships doesn't matter as it's the act of criminal acts after you have undocked a ship that is what i'm talking about. Keep to that or simply just stop making troll posts. The point is that a suicide ganker cannot reship if somebody did not pre-position those ships, fit them, and then put them on contract. That you want to ignore this is because it does not fit with your narrative....which makes you dishonest in the extreme. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:54:51 - [629] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. so again, for the nth time, what are those consequences and it's veracity to warrant this change. You don't get any more consequences or penalty other than the 15 minute Concord timer for doing ganks in high sec which i have said a million times that is the problem. It's simple to just jump into a new ship and keep doing the ganks without ANY more consequences than just the 15 minute Concord timer. Because of that, there should be a criminal system in EVE that punishes the criminals / gankers harder and harder the more crimes they do, which is a normal thing to do against criminals in the first place. What's so hard about this to understand? because your answer is revolving around what you FEEL and NO concrete evidence to support that the change is needed. read your reply again, your 1st sentence on your 1st paragraph just mentioned that you feel 15 min is not enough and therefore a problem, why? after that, no explanation whatsoever, why the fck is 15 min not enough? then you start your 2nd paragraph with, 'because of that..' as if you said any to explained anything. then you again mentioned that criminals/gankers should be punished harder and harder the more crimes they do, again, why? what i find funny about your statement there is you implied that we are just simple criminals and forget how POWERFUL capsuleers we are. lol Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6014	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:55:00 - [630] - Quote NightmareX wrote: A criminal is someone who commit an act that is breaking the law. And by breaking the law, you should be punished harder and harder the more you breaks the law. This is a normal practice against criminals this way. When you look at what a criminal in real life is............ In ordinary language, a crime is an unlawful act punishable by a state or other authority. The term "crime" does not, in modern criminal law, have any simple and universally accepted definition, though statutory definitions have been provided for certain purposes. The most popular view is that crime is a category created by law; in other words, something is a crime if declared as such by the relevant and applicable law. One proposed definition is that a crime or offence (or criminal offence) is an act harmful not only to some individual or individuals but also to a community, society or the state ("a public wrong"). Such acts are forbidden and punishable by law. The notion that acts such as murder, **** and theft are to be prohibited exists worldwide. What precisely is a criminal offence is defined by criminal law of each country. While many have a catalogue of crimes called the criminal code, in some common law countries no such comprehensive statute exists. The state (government) has the power to severely restrict one's liberty for committing a crime. In modern societies, there are procedures to which investigations and trials must adhere. If found guilty, an offender may be sentenced to a form of reparation such as a community sentence, or, depending on the nature of their offence, to undergo imprisonment, life imprisonment or, in some jurisdictions, execution. Usually, to be classified as a crime, the "act of doing something criminal" (actus reus) must GÇô with certain exceptions GÇô be accompanied by the "intention to do something criminal" (mens rea). While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime. Breaches of private law (torts and breaches of contract) are not automatically punished by the state, but can be enforced through civil procedure. WTIF....? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:56:17 - [631] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: The point is that a suicide ganker cannot reship if somebody did not pre-position those ships, fit them, and then put them on contract. That you want to ignore this is because it does not fit with your narrative....which makes you dishonest in the extreme. Again, you are making no sense at all. If you want to talk, then please come back when you can talk about what the issue is with the act of doing crimes. Don't expect me to take you any serious from now on if you can't HTFU and discuss the actual issue. I will ignore you lame trolling from now on. Have a nice day. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dolorous Tremmens Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation 210	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:56:44 - [632] - Quote Yeah, looks like its a dirtsucker definition of crime/criminal activity. the sort that capsuleers are known to not pay attention to. 1 isk is more than a planet dweller is likely to see in a lifetime. The smallest ship could lay waste to a planet, but that would be unprofitable. Capsuleers are immortal, what laws can matter to someone who has a backup or six? Your idea that punishment should be a dettering force goes against what eve is. Players are the enemy, rats are just an economic faucet. Face it, people that want more punishment want less risk, less difficulty. To be clear they want WOW, or Archeage or any other hand holding consent based mock economy/war game. If eve bothers you that much, you do have a choice of not playing. But you wont stop, because you would be admitting defeat. Your only chance at winning is to try to use the devs to ruin other people fun, instead of doing it yourself. Wipe your own ass, feed yourself, put on your own clothes like a big boy, or go play with the toddlers in the WOW playpen. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:58:03 - [633] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. WE ARE NOT HUMANS WE ARE IMMORTAL POWERFUL CAPSULEERS, CONCORD IS AFRAID OF US, THE ONLY THING SAVING THEM FROM ANNIHILATION IS BECAUSE WE DON"T CARE. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:59:34 - [634] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: because your answer is revolving around what you FEEL and NO concrete evidence to support that the change is needed. read your reply again, your 1st sentence on your 1st paragraph just mentioned that you feel 15 min is not enough and therefore a problem, why? after that, no explanation whatsoever, why the fck is 15 min not enough? then you start your 2nd paragraph with, 'because of that..' as if you said any to explained anything. then you again mentioned that criminals/gankers should be punished harder and harder the more crimes they do, again, why? what i find funny about your statement there is you implied that we are just simple criminals and forget how POWERFUL capsuleers we are. lol Again, as you have ignored all of my points i have been telling earlier, then i'm also gonna ignore you for not reading those points from now on. I have given many good points on why a criminal in EVE should be treated as a criminal like in real life as we are playing a game that is all about humans after all. So it's not just about what i feel, but about what a criminal actually is and how they should be treated. And this is what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be like that in EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6016	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:00:10 - [635] - Quote NightmareX wrote: The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments..... Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6016	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:01:30 - [636] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: The point is that a suicide ganker cannot reship if somebody did not pre-position those ships, fit them, and then put them on contract. That you want to ignore this is because it does not fit with your narrative....which makes you dishonest in the extreme. Again, you are making no sense at all. If you want to talk, then please come back when you can talk about what the issue is with the act of doing crimes. Don't expect me to take you any serious from now on if you can't HTFU and discuss the actual issue. I will ignore you lame trolling from now on. Have a nice day. Yes, it is totally nonsensical to ask, "Where do those ships come from." Yes...completely ridiculous. Jesus, but you are just being boneheaded in the extreme. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:01:57 - [637] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: because your answer is revolving around what you FEEL and NO concrete evidence to support that the change is needed. read your reply again, your 1st sentence on your 1st paragraph just mentioned that you feel 15 min is not enough and therefore a problem, why? after that, no explanation whatsoever, why the fck is 15 min not enough? then you start your 2nd paragraph with, 'because of that..' as if you said any to explained anything. then you again mentioned that criminals/gankers should be punished harder and harder the more crimes they do, again, why? what i find funny about your statement there is you implied that we are just simple criminals and forget how POWERFUL capsuleers we are. lol Again, as you have ignored all of my points i have been telling earlier, then i'm also gonna ignore you for not reading those points from now on. I have given many good points on why a criminal in EVE should be treated as a criminal like in real life as we are playing a game that is all about humans after all. So it's not just about what i feel, but about what a criminal actually is and how they should be treated. And this is what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be like that in EVE. dude, stop with the real life comparison. in game we are not humans, we are capsuleers, get that through your skull. in real life, i won't be orbiting a plex, trying to caputre or protect a solar system for a hippie govenment. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:02:38 - [638] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments..... Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. It's a game that has to be fun for everyone to play and not just for the gankers. And like i also said earlier that you seems to have ignored completely is that no freighter polits is having fun playing EVE knowing that the gankers can just keep ganking forever without facing any harder consequences for doing their crimes more and more. That's the issue to. Nat Silverguard wrote: dude, stop with the real life comparison. in game we are not humans, we are capsuleers, get that through your skull. Read over what i said to Teckos. So please stop with the lame excuses. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6020	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:07:34 - [639] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments..... Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. It's a game that has to be fun for everyone to play and not just for the gankers. And like i also said earlier that you seems to have ignored completely is that no freighter polits is having fun playing EVE knowing that the gankers can just keep ganking forever without facing any harder consequences for doing their crimes more and more. That's the issue to. In this video game we play immortals...people who cannot die. Kill my current meat puppet and my consciousness will fly across light years to a new meat puppet that will house my consciousness...I will then step into a new ship and continue on my merry way. I cannot be permanently killed. I can only be sent to a far off destination, at best. I no longer identify with the dirt dwellers crawling along the surface of various planets. I have moved beyond them. As such your notions of justice and law do not hold for me and my kind. That is the lore of this game. That you keep trying to shoe-horn everything into today's mores and norms just makes you look like a fool. Especially for a player since 2004. Are you sure you didn't buy that character? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27860	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:09:02 - [640] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. We, as in the players, live in a human world; our characters live in another universe. Reality and fantasy, know the difference. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:09:51 - [641] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. In this video game we play immortals...people who cannot die. Kill my current meat puppet and my consciousness will fly across light years to a new meat puppet that will house my consciousness...I will then step into a new ship and continue on my merry way. I cannot be permanently killed. I can only be sent to a far off destination, at best. I no longer identify with the dirt dwellers crawling along the surface of various planets. I have moved beyond them. As such your notions of justice and law do not hold for me and my kind. That is the lore of this game. That you keep trying to shoe-horn everything into today's mores and norms just makes you look like a fool. Especially for a player since 2004. Are you sure you didn't buy that character? Still doesn't help that it's a video game when everything in EVE is about humans flying spaceships. As long it's normal humans, then we should treat crininals like humans in real life. Yes, it's a game, but you still haven't explained why this system i have made an idea of should't be in EVE to begin with. Oh noes it's a game and they can't improve it you say? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. We live in a human world, our characters live in another universe. Reality and fantasy, know the difference. You still haven't explained why a criminal shouldn't be treated as a crininal, even though it's just a game. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 727	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:12:35 - [642] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:16:23 - [643] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance atm that should be fixed. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 728	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:19:40 - [644] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27860	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:19:46 - [645] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Still doesn't help that it's a video game when everything in EVE is about humans flying spaceships. As long it's normal humans, then we should treat crininals like humans in real life. Capsuleers aren't normal humans. Unless you happen to know someone in real life that has implants to boost their mental strength, can transfer their consciousness between meat popsicles and has access to spaceships capable of using stuff like rail guns, lasers, ICBMs and projectile weapons that fire shells the size of a Volkswagen. Quote: Yes, it's a game, but you still haven't explained why this system i have made an idea of should't be in EVE to begin with. Oh noes it's a game and they can't improve it you say? Because it's based on a flawed premise, not to mention probably unworkable from the back end and otherwise a shite idea. Quote: You still haven't explained why a criminal shouldn't be treated as a crininal, even though it's just a game. They are treated as criminals, for the definition of criminal as provided by the game. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6020	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:20:10 - [646] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. In this video game we play immortals...people who cannot die. Kill my current meat puppet and my consciousness will fly across light years to a new meat puppet that will house my consciousness...I will then step into a new ship and continue on my merry way. I cannot be permanently killed. I can only be sent to a far off destination, at best. I no longer identify with the dirt dwellers crawling along the surface of various planets. I have moved beyond them. As such your notions of justice and law do not hold for me and my kind. That is the lore of this game. That you keep trying to shoe-horn everything into today's mores and norms just makes you look like a fool. Especially for a player since 2004. Are you sure you didn't buy that character? Still doesn't help that it's a video game when everything in EVE is about humans flying spaceships. As long it's normal humans, then we should treat crininals like humans in real life. Yes, it's a game, but you still haven't explained why this system i have made an idea of should't be in EVE to begin with. Oh noes it's a game and they can't improve it you say? Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:21:51 - [647] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Good for you. But ask any freighter pilots who gets ganked on how they feel about the gankers consequences if those risk vs reward mechanics this way are fair or bad. You know pretty well what they will tell you. But you wont admit it because you are a massive ganker ingame yourself and don't want to get harder time ganking the more you do it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:24:28 - [648] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? You can spin it as much as you like, but when you can't explain what i'm asking for, then just give up as you wont win an argument over me then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6020	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:24:48 - [649] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Good for you. But ask any freighter pilots who gets ganked on how they feel about the gankers consequences if those risk vs reward mechanics this way are fair or bad. You know pretty well what they will tell you. But you wont admit it because you are a massive ganker ingame yourself and don't want to get harder time ganking the more you do it. Maybe the freighter pilot should not have taken on so much risk.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 728	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:24:54 - [650] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Good for you. But ask any freighter pilots who gets ganked on how they feel about the gankers consequences if those risk vs reward mechanics this way are fair or bad. You know pretty well what they will tell you. But you wont admit it because you are a massive ganker ingame yourself and don't want to get harder time ganking the more you do it. well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Just Add Water

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6022	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:26:26 - [651] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? We do. the worse your sec status gets the worse things get up to -10. -.01 means pretty much nothing. As your sec status gets worse the harder it gets to move around HS. The more trouble it is. I find it amazing that you have been playing since 2004 and don't know this. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Siobhan MacLeary Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 224	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:26:56 - [652] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Good for you. But ask any freighter pilots who gets ganked on how they feel about the gankers consequences if those risk vs reward mechanics this way are fair or bad. You know pretty well what they will tell you. But you wont admit it because you are a massive ganker ingame yourself and don't want to get harder time ganking the more you do it. Freighter pilots who overload their holds and autopilot around deserve to be taught a lesson. Most of them don't seem to learn a thing so we will keep applying a clue-by-four to their heads until they get it. Also, ganking things actually takes a fair amount of skilled organization so your argument that ganking is too easy is automagically invalid. Also: GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGûæFOR KIDSGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 730	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:28:33 - [653] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? again, because they can NOT do that, they are afraid of us. they won't even stay at 0.5 systems that's why it takes time for them to arrive... geez man, learn the game you're trying so hard to play, will you. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:28:35 - [654] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Maybe the freighter pilot should not have taken on so much risk.... Now, remember that there is a line between taking a risk to having a huge change of dying to gankers because of how the current poor criminal system is working. You don't seems to graps this. But oh well, you are Teckos after all, so no suprises there. Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27861	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:31:49 - [655] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. If you want harsher penalties, CCP has already given you the tools to inflict them Quote: Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Wrong. Concord has two jobs, one is to maintain a state of peace between the empires, the other is to punish people who have a criminal flag. Quote: Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? Because that isn't Concords job, that's the job of the Faction Police and us, the vast majority of people can't be arsed to do it. Quote: You can spin it as much as you like, but when you can't explain what i'm asking for, then just give up as you wont win an argument over me then. Wat?Gäó In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 730	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:33:24 - [656] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. nah, because they're smart. they've been freighting for years dude, that's all they do mostly, and everybody knows about them. Just Add Water
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3182	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:47:18 - [657] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? You can spin it as much as you like, but when you can't explain what i'm asking for, then just give up as you wont win an argument over me then. Ok, let's take this back to basics. Grant me this: criminals are intended part of highsec. CCP wants other players to provide the risk in this game, so the players have to be able to be on the same server node and in the same system for this to happen. Also, locking them out would cause all sorts of issues for newer pilots who trash their security status and can't access their stuff, or lowsec pirates who want to move around New Eden, so let's accept for this discussion that free-travel for all players is an idea CCP doesn't want to mess with. Ok, with that in mind, how would you punish criminals more than they are now? What punishments do you think they should receive that don't already, keeping in mind you can't prevent them from interacting with other players or traveling around? What would you think fair? The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:52:46 - [658] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want harsher penalties, CCP has already given you the tools to inflict them I'm not supposed to be the police penalizing the crininals harsher the more crimes they do. That's the Concord's job of doing, because a police is supposed to be a police and not a lazy donut eater. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Wrong. Concord has two jobs, one is to maintain a state of peace between the empires, the other is to punish people who have a criminal flag. So just because that's how Concord works today, no one can ever improve on the criminal system in EVE, just because 'it's a game' and because 'OMG it's a change so it must be horrible', right? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because that isn't Concords job, that's the job of the Faction Police and us, the vast majority of people can't be arsed to do it. Ehm, the faction police only gets involved towards your security status and not from what kind of crimes you do at one moment. Then it's the Concord's job of taking care of the criminals. But as Concord seems to be lazy and late on handling the criminals, then need somekinf of a buff so the criminals will get it harder to do more and more crimes. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Wat?Gäó Ok, thank you very much for your well explained empty argument . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:57:59 - [659] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. nah, because they're smart. they've been freighting for years dude, that's all they do mostly, and everybody knows about them. Oh, so now suddenly the freighter pilots is smart. Didn't you guys say earlier that most freighter pilots was just stupid and is getting ganked because of it? Make up your mind please. So if the freighter pilots are smart after all and are still dying to gankers, then what? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dolorous Tremmens Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation 210	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:00:37 - [660] - Quote well trolled sir Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2933	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:01:25 - [661] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Also, locking them out would cause all sorts of issues for newer pilots who trash their security status and can't access their stuff, or lowsec pirates who want to move around New Eden, so let's accept for this discussion that free-travel for all players is an idea CCP doesn't want to mess with. Ok, with that in mind, how would you punish criminals more than they are now? What punishments do you think they should receive that don't already, keeping in mind you can't prevent them from interacting with other players or traveling around? What would you think fair? Locking out criminals and pirates from high sec stations is a non-issue now that you can just place affordable personal stations anywhere. In fact, even if new players trashed their security status (which is a direct consequence of their mindless action and by extension a wanted feature of the game), the sooner they get used to these new structures, the better for them and the game since CCP is insisting on forcing people into these structures. Wars and such are not a problem with these structures either because you can just use an alt corp for the deployment, as CODE and CFC evidently demonstrate with their neutral Astrahuses in Niarja, for instance. Positive side effect: people cooperate more when they use friends/likeminded other players for this purpose. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:02:25 - [662] - Quote Dolorous Tremmens wrote: well trolled sir Thanks for confirming they are all trolls. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 730	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:03:42 - [663] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. nah, because they're smart. they've been freighting for years dude, that's all they do mostly, and everybody knows about them. Oh, so now suddenly the freighter pilots is smart. Didn't you guys say earlier that most freighter pilots was just stupid and is getting ganked because of it? Make up your mind please. So if the freighter pilots are smart after all and are still dying to gankers, then what? wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27862	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:04:54 - [664] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I'm not supposed to be the police penalizing the crininals harsher the more crimes they do. That's the Concord's job of doing, because a police is supposed to be a police and not a lazy donut eater. In short, you're lazy and want NPC's to do it for you. Quote: So just because that's how Concord works today, no one can ever improve on the criminal system in EVE, just because 'it's a game' and because 'OMG it's a change so it must be horrible', right? Improvement is subjective, in your opinion your idea is an improvement, in mine, and apparently that of others, it's not. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Ehm, the faction police only gets involved towards your security status and not from what kind of crimes you do at one moment. Then it's the Concord's job of taking care of the criminals. But as Concord seems to be lazy and late on handling the criminals, then need somekinf of a buff so the criminals will get it harder to do more and more crimes. Concord's job is to deal with people that have a criminal timer, they do that admirably. The job of the Faction Police is to make life difficult for those that while having a low security status don't have a criminal timer. That is the distinction that you're failing to see. Quote: Ok, thank you very much for your well explained empty argument . That part of your post made no sense, it deserved the reply it got. Deal with it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:05:22 - [665] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27862	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:10:15 - [666] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? That's not what he said. Reading comprehension, inject it and train to lvl 3. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:14:01 - [667] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In short, you're lazy and want NPC's to do it for you. Because they can arrive at the scene almost instantly while we as normal players can't. Don't you see the issue here on why Concord is the one that needs to be buffed when it's about this? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Improvement is subjective, in your opinion your idea is an improvement, in mine, and apparently that of others, it's not. My idea will balance / improve the game towards everyone in EVE and not just one side of the game. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Concord's job is to deal with people that have a criminal timer, they do that admirably. The job of the Faction Police is to make life difficult for those that while having a low security status don't have a criminal timer. That is the distinction that you're failing to see. No, Concord's job is to deal with those who commit a criminal act in space AND to deal with anyone with a Concord timer. LEARN2EVE bro. And the faction police's job is to act towards players with bad security status and nothing more. They simply don't care about what you do in high sec as long as your security status is ok. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That part of your post made no sense, it deserved the reply it got. You posted a picture that had nothing to do with what i told you. So again, nice emptyy argument against what i said. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Deal with it. Or maybe you should deal with it that peoples should be able to come up with ideas on how to improve Concord / the gameplay for everyone without you using lame arguments of 'IT'S JUST A GAME' and 'THAT'S NOT HOW EVE IS'? Just because it's a game and that's not how EVE currently is, doesn't mean things can't be improved or changed for the better. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 730	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:14:25 - [668] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? check the killboard! almost all of the freighters & jfs that died are carrying isk they shouldn't have, now tell me it's not the dumbest thing to do? your turn, show me a proof that the 15min criminal timer is too long and therefore problematic? pls spare me your assumptions and gutfeels ok? i want solid proof. Just Add Water
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3182	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:14:49 - [669] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Also, locking them out would cause all sorts of issues for newer pilots who trash their security status and can't access their stuff, or lowsec pirates who want to move around New Eden, so let's accept for this discussion that free-travel for all players is an idea CCP doesn't want to mess with. Ok, with that in mind, how would you punish criminals more than they are now? What punishments do you think they should receive that don't already, keeping in mind you can't prevent them from interacting with other players or traveling around? What would you think fair? Locking out criminals and pirates from high sec stations is a non-issue now that you can just place affordable personal stations anywhere. In fact, even if new players trashed their security status (which is a direct consequence of their mindless action and by extension a wanted feature of the game), the sooner they get used to these new structures, the better for them and the game since CCP is insisting on forcing people into these structures. Wars and such are not a problem with these structures either because you can just use an alt corp for the deployment, as CODE and CFC evidently demonstrate with their neutral Astrahuses in Niarja, for instance. Positive side effect: people cooperate more when they use friends/likeminded other players for this purpose. ^^ See guys, this is a rational argument. With an established network of player-owned structures for criminals to use you could, in theory, limit use of NPC stations to criminals. I am not sure how that would fit with lore (I think it would make more sense for stations to lock you out based upon your standing to the NPC corporation) and it still has some issue where some new player could lose access to their stuff without understanding what they are doing (although there are no doubt workarounds to that), but at least that is something that could be considered and might stimulate activity in game. While it would be a nerf for highsec criminals, I think it might be possible one day, and no doubt CCP would pair that nerf with a corresponding buff to suicide ganking as they like to do. Perhaps they could remove the faction police so that criminals could directly defend their pirate stations during wars? Well, in any case, such changes seem far off in the future. Highsec criminals though are here to stay, and are something you have to deal with. Grr gankers all you want, but the game system isn't going to save you from them. The risk they present is very much intended. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2933	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:15:49 - [670] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Wrong, darling. Also intelligent and not lazy freighters get targeted a lot, and it costs immense effort to mitigate as much risk to your ship as possible. A single worthless Blackbird can destroy all countermeasures available to freighters and detours, for instance, to circumvent an incoming gank cost money that no one compensates you for. No freighter considers the current system fine and balanced; however, it is better than anything anyone has suggested to date as alternative or "better". Everything that has been suggested so far only makes matters worse for freighters in particular. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:17:49 - [671] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? check the killboard! almost all of the freighters & jfs that died are carrying isk they shouldn't have, now tell me it's not the dumbest thing to do? your turn, show me a proof that the 15min criminal timer is too long and therefore problematic? pls spare me your assumptions and gutfeels ok? i want solid proof. You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Just because he is doing his job of transporting things for himself, someone / others, doesn't mean he's dumb or anything for not having a billion alts or friends who can scout 20 systems ahead to make sure he can travel without any issues. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 730	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:24:05 - [672] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Wrong, darling. Also intelligent and not lazy freighters get targeted a lot, and it costs immense effort to mitigate as much risk to your ship as possible. A single worthless Blackbird can destroy all countermeasures available to freighters and detours, for instance, to circumvent an incoming gank cost money that no one compensates you for. No freighter considers the current system fine and balanced; however, it is better than anything anyone has suggested to date as alternative or "better". Everything that has been suggested so far only makes matters worse for freighters in particular. Actually, no darling. key word here is 'intellegent', do you really think that intellegent JF pilots that understand EvE and love this game would ask more safety and at the same time kill a legit gameplay? Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27866	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:28:48 - [673] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Because they can arrive at the scene almost instantly while we as normal players can't. Don't you see the issue here on why Concord is the one that needs to be buffed when it's about this? So why do they need buffing? Quote: My idea will balance / improve the game towards everyone in EVE and not just one side of the game. That's your opinion, which is subjective. Quote: No, Concord's job is to deal with those who commit a criminal act in space AND to deal with anyone with a Concord timer. LEARN2EVE bro. They already do this, if you commit a criminal act in space you gain a criminal timer, which is what triggers a Concord response. If you undock in anything other than a pod while the timer is running they respond again. Learn how the current mechanics work before taking other people to task for criticising your asinine ideas to improve them. Quote: And the faction police's job is to act towards players with bad security status and nothing more. They simply don't care about what you do in high sec as long as your security status is ok. Where have I said otherwise? Quote: Or maybe you should deal with it that peoples should be able to come up with ideas on how to improve Concord / the gameplay for everyone without you using lame arguments of 'IT'S JUST A GAME' and 'THAT'S NOT HOW EVE IS'? Just because it's a game and that's not how EVE currently is, doesn't mean things can't be improved or changed for the better. Nobody said otherwise, however when you present an idea you must be be prepared for others to disagree on whether or not it's actually an improvement. You appear to have difficulties with this concept. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 732	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:31:45 - [674] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? check the killboard! almost all of the freighters & jfs that died are carrying isk they shouldn't have, now tell me it's not the dumbest thing to do? your turn, show me a proof that the 15min criminal timer is too long and therefore problematic? pls spare me your assumptions and gutfeels ok? i want solid proof. You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Just because he is doing his job of transporting things for himself, someone / others, doesn't mean he's dumb or anything for not having a billion alts or friends who can scout 20 systems ahead to make sure he can travel without any issues. gee, you tell me, fitting istab, exp cargohold, shield power relay or mods other than bulkheads for JFs is dumb or not? Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27866	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:32:20 - [675] - Quote NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lugh Crow-Slave 3849	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:34:57 - [676] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Wrong, darling. Also intelligent and not lazy freighters get targeted a lot, and it costs immense effort to mitigate as much risk to your ship as possible. A single worthless Blackbird can destroy all countermeasures available to freighters and detours, for instance, to circumvent an incoming gank cost money that no one compensates you for. the hell are you talking about? black bird tries to jam your web before the gank starts he just called concord early he waits and you have already got your freighter out. not to mention the best ship in the game for this is also a recon and they have immense sensor strength. then you have one black bird cant do anything it has to have friends to actually do the gank Quote: No freighter considers the current system fine and balanced; however, it is better than anything anyone has suggested to date as alternative or "better". Everything that has been suggested so far only makes matters worse for freighters in particular. i find it very balanced and you can look through my KB in the first year or so i started using freighters i lost quit a few. now even though i use them more i haven't lost one in over two years. or well if anything its not balanced in favor of the freighter. you need about a dozen pilots to have a chance against me and my alt. why is it with ganking people say "they don't have to risk much isk to kill my expensive stuff" no where else in EvE is more isk = better and less isk = worse. I can kill a 2b blinged cruiser in a frig worth 7mill. anyplace else in eve if you could easily take on 12+ players with only two and have a strong chance of winning you would here huge cries to nerf it no matter the value of each side BLOPS Hauler
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6022	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:35:27 - [677] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Wrong, darling. Also intelligent and not lazy freighters get targeted a lot.... I disagree. People say this alot, but they almost always fail to back it up. Outside of a Burn event how many empty freighters get ganked? People make this claim: Empty freighters are ganked, therefor a problem, but they never tell us how often an empty freighter get ganked. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2933	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:38:20 - [678] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Actually, no darling. key word here is 'intellegent', do you really think that intellegent JF pilots that understand EvE and love this game would ask more safety and at the same time kill a legit gameplay? I consider myself intelligent and I ask for more consequences to ganking, not more safety for haulers. That's a big difference. Right now, there are no tangible consequences for ganking whatsoever: A ganker can keep docking in NPC stations, a ganker can keep stocking assets in NPC stations, a ganker can keep docking in an NPC station although he just killed another guy that is in that NPC corp, a ganker can just drop to any NPC corp in case of war decs and keep killing people and people in that same NPC corp. There are no consequences to their gameplay that matter (no, facpo does not matter, neither does their low sec status or killrights because they are only docked most of the time and only undocked for mere minutes or seconds). Naturally, players should be responsible for punishing them but at the moment there is no feasible way to actually do that. That is something that ought to change, for instance, in form of lockouts from NPC stations and the "encouragement" to use player built structures that you can at least engage. It does not provide more safety for haulers, but actual consequences for gankers. Blackpedro, I do not see that edge case as an issue at all. Ganking is a very conscious action because you actually have to enable the gank mode (safeties set to red). By consciously doing that, you know what will happen. Or should, because at the moment it is not all that well explained what can happen to you. Perhaps if an NPC lockout thing actually got implemented, this should be explained in more detail in the NPE/tooltips when you enable red safety. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:39:50 - [679] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So why do they need buffing? Because they aren't harsh enough when you still keep ganking / committing crimes over and over again without any other consequences other than just a fast 15 minute Concord timer. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That's your opinion, which is subjective. My opinion here stands towards players who are NOT gankers. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They already do this, if you commit a criminal act in space you gain a criminal timer, which is what triggers a Concord response. If you undock in anything other than a pod while the timer is running they respond again. Learn how the current mechanics work before taking other people to task for criticising your asinine ideas to improve them. 15 minutes of Concord timer is not enough of a punishment for gankers. Again, the Concord timer should increase the more you do the ganking each days. That's what you don't have the capacity to understand. So yes, a buff to the Concord timer for each crininal act you do should be fine. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where have I said otherwise? You started to talk about the faction police when i was talking about things where Concord only are involved. What do you expect me to say to that then? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody said otherwise, however when you present an idea you must be be prepared for others to disagree on whether or not it's actually an improvement. You appear to have difficulties with this concept. It's an improvement because then all gank victims can feel that the criminals is actually treated as criminals even though they get ganked. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:41:15 - [680] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6024	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:44:54 - [681] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Actually, no darling. key word here is 'intellegent', do you really think that intellegent JF pilots that understand EvE and love this game would ask more safety and at the same time kill a legit gameplay? I consider myself intelligent and I ask for more consequences to ganking, not more safety for haulers. That's a big difference. Right now, there are no tangible consequences for ganking whatsoever: A ganker can keep docking in NPC stations, a ganker can keep stocking assets in NPC stations, a ganker can keep docking in an NPC station although he just killed another guy that is in that NPC corp, a ganker can just drop to any NPC corp in case of war decs and keep killing people and people in that same NPC corp. There are no consequences to their gameplay that matter (no, facpo does not matter, neither does their low sec status or killrights because they are only docked most of the time and only undocked for mere minutes or seconds). Naturally, players should be responsible for punishing them but at the moment there is no feasible way to actually do that. That is something that ought to change, for instance, in form of lockouts from NPC stations and the "encouragement" to use player built structures that you can at least engage. It does not provide more safety for haulers, but actual consequences for gankers. Blackpedro, I do not see that edge case as an issue at all. Ganking is a very conscious action because you actually have to enable the gank mode (safeties set to red). By consciously doing that, you know what will happen. Or should, because at the moment it is not all that well explained what can happen to you. Perhaps if an NPC lockout thing actually got implemented, this should be explained in more detail in the NPE/tooltips when you enable red safety. We don't need more "consequenes" to ganking freighters. The problem has absolutely nothing to do with game mechanics or balance, but with player actions. An idiot player puts 6 billion ISK worth of cargo into his freighter. He has created a prime ganking opportunity by his actions. Let me repeat that, a player who puts 6 billion ISK into a freighter has created a prime ganking opportunity. If the freighter pilot did not create this ganking opportunity there would be no ganking opportunity. Yes, yes, the odd empty freighter might get ganked, but that is the exception not the norm. I have gone to Zkill and looked. Once i remove LS and NS freighters, and freighters with clearly double wrapped courier packages there are only overloaded freighters and the odd empty freighter. So I repeat, the ganking opportunity is created by the player that is ganked. I have shown this in this thread here. In the end nobody disagreed with my point. If you are imprudent and you get ganked you really have nobody to blame but yourself. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27868	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:45:22 - [682] - Quote I agree that more opposition for gankers may be a good thing, and that it should come from other players and not mechanics. That opposition could come in many forms, one of which is not doing dumb stuff with a freighter, another is anti ganking getting their act together. What I don't agree with is the sort of one more nerf via game mechanics bullshit that the OP and NightmareX are trumpeting as a solution to ganking, that is the antithesis of Eve. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 732	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:45:27 - [683] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. speed boat? since when bulkheads make your JF fast? Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:48:14 - [684] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. speed boat? since when bulkheads make your JF fast? It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6024	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:51:58 - [685] - Quote NightmareX wrote: It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lugh Crow-Slave 3851	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:52:24 - [686] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Actually, no darling. key word here is 'intellegent', do you really think that intellegent JF pilots that understand EvE and love this game would ask more safety and at the same time kill a legit gameplay? I consider myself intelligent and I ask for more consequences to ganking, not more safety for haulers. That's a big difference. Right now, there are no tangible consequences for ganking whatsoever: A ganker can keep docking in NPC stations, a ganker can keep stocking assets in NPC stations, a ganker can keep docking in an NPC station although he just killed another guy that is in that NPC corp, a ganker can just drop to any NPC corp in case of war decs and keep killing people and people in that same NPC corp. There are no consequences to their gameplay that matter (no, facpo does not matter, neither does their low sec status or killrights because they are only docked most of the time and only undocked for mere minutes or seconds). Naturally, players should be responsible for punishing them but at the moment there is no feasible way to actually do that. That is something that ought to change, for instance, in form of lockouts from NPC stations and the "encouragement" to use player built structures that you can at least engage. It does not provide more safety for haulers, but actual consequences for gankers. Blackpedro, I do not see that edge case as an issue at all. Ganking is a very conscious action because you actually have to enable the gank mode (safeties set to red). By consciously doing that, you know what will happen. Or should, because at the moment it is not all that well explained what can happen to you. Perhaps if an NPC lockout thing actually got implemented, this should be explained in more detail in the NPE/tooltips when you enable red safety. why? why should HS ganking carry with it more even consequences enforced by the game than anyplace else? why should player X's gameplay be subject to even more arbitrary consequences then it already is just because YOU don't like it. BLOPS Hauler
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27868	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:53:44 - [687] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. speed boat? since when bulkheads make your JF fast? It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Lugh Crow-Slave 3851	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:53:47 - [688] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? not true your best bet is to insta warp it. you used to be able to tank providence before the hull resist changes but now most groups will have enough to kill a tanked ob BLOPS Hauler
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:54:38 - [689] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3185	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:56:25 - [690] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Naturally, players should be responsible for punishing them but at the moment there is no feasible way to actually do that. That is something that ought to change, for instance, in form of lockouts from NPC stations and the "encouragement" to use player built structures that you can at least engage. It does not provide more safety for haulers, but actual consequences for gankers. Blackpedro, I do not see that edge case as an issue at all. Ganking is a very conscious action because you actually have to enable the gank mode (safeties set to red). By consciously doing that, you know what will happen. Or should, because at the moment it is not all that well explained what can happen to you. Perhaps if an NPC lockout thing actually got implemented, this should be explained in more detail in the NPE/tooltips when you enable red safety. New players can easily trash their security status without meaning to. They can go join faction warfare and pod too many people, or shoot a pod or two in highsec and end up locked out from their stuff with no warning. But I agree with you. I am just saying locking out new players (and even older or returning players) is one thing on the long list of things CCP has to worry about, as like always there are unintended consequences and effects when messing with core game systems. Creating player-owned pirate hideaways would be awesome. The player pirates should be able to defend their stations however without the faction police getting involved, but none of these problems are insurmountable. It just isn't a simple change. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6025	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:57:10 - [691] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. My God...and now we are explaining basic game mechanics to 12 year veterans....WITF? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:58:36 - [692] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27870	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:00:03 - [693] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ]Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Are you utterly incapable of admitting that you're wrong? This isn't the first time we've had to correct you on how stuff works, incidentally you still haven't managed to show that you understand how Crimewatch works, neither has the OP. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6025	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:01:34 - [694] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs. But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that. So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank. Good job. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lugh Crow-Slave 3852	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:01:53 - [695] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. doesn't that mean they lose more ships? isn't that adding to the consequence of ganking you? wasn't that the point? or is the point really that you want to make ganking so difficult you don't have to deal with it? BLOPS Hauler
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:02:32 - [696] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ]Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Are you utterly incapable of admitting that you're wrong? Did you answer me on the fact that the gankers will just bring even more gankers to gank a freighter if they see that it has reinforced bulkheads? So you can some with whatever lame excuse you want, but some reinforced bulkheads wont save anyone in a freighter from being ganked if the gankers uses their brains. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:03:29 - [697] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: NightmareX wrote: Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. doesn't that mean they lose more ships? isn't that adding to the consequence of ganking you? wasn't that the point? or is the point really that you want to make ganking so difficult you don't have to deal with it? Doesn't matter as they will still make profits out of it and still be able to do their crimes without any more consequences to their actions. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Lugh Crow-Slave 3852	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:04:05 - [698] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs. But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that. So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank. Good job. lol he said using webs was poor game design? even if it wasn't original intended i find it to be great its a powerful way to help a friend using a tool that already existed in the game originally meant to make it easier to kill. stuff like this is why eve's sandbox is great BLOPS Hauler
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6025	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:05:36 - [699] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: NightmareX wrote: Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. doesn't that mean they lose more ships? isn't that adding to the consequence of ganking you? wasn't that the point? or is the point really that you want to make ganking so difficult you don't have to deal with it? And they won't be able to gank as often. If they needed say 15 guys in fleet on average, and everyone starts tanking their freighter an they need 22 guys in fleet they can't gank until they get guy number 22. Sheesh. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27870	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:05:57 - [700] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ]Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Are you utterly incapable of admitting that you're wrong? Did you answer me on the fact that the gankers will just bring even more gankers to gank a freighter if they see that it has reinforced bulkheads? So you can some with whatever lame excuse you want, but some reinforced bulkheads wont save anyone in a freighter from being ganked if the gankers uses their brains. No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 733	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:06:21 - [701] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. speed boat? since when bulkheads make your JF fast? It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. fck this, first you don't know the mechanics, then lore, and now basic mods? fck you dude, you are a fake bulkheads doesn't make you enter faster or slower for that matter, your align time would be the same, bulkheads adds your hullpoints. expanded cargo hold as well, it doesn't affect align time. you might be referring to istab, although i wrote that you replied to jonah, so i don't know. anyway, you are still wrong you mofo, when you are NOT moving (as in when you enter system from jump gates) your accelaration won't be affected by your alignment since you don't need to turn, therefore istab is no use. again try to learn the game you are trying to play Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6026	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:06:31 - [702] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs. But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that. So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank. Good job. lol he said using webs was poor game design? even if it wasn't original intended i find it to be great its a powerful way to help a friend using a tool that already existed in the game originally meant to make it easier to kill. stuff like this is why eve's sandbox is great Basically, using a friend or an alt was not reasonable in HS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:07:28 - [703] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs. But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that. So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank. Good job. The question is still, why do we have to be in need of others to web a freighter to be able to do the job of transporting things from one system to another in a relatively safe way? Yes, that should give you some slightly benefits, but it shouldn't be a requirement for using a freighter without getting ganked over and over again by criminals who can just freely keep doing their ganks without any more consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27870	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:10:03 - [704] - Quote @Nat. Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:11:51 - [705] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 733	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:15:06 - [706] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: @Nat. Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times. oh, really? then it's a win-win to use bulkheads then and nobody has an excuse for not using them! o7 Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27872	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:17:29 - [707] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? Get this through your thick skull. I DON'T GANK Quote: And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. What else do you call people who put multibillions in their untanked ships and then fly them into a known killing field without any support, or in some cases without even being at the computer? Quote: You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. That they die because they do stupid things with their freighter is self evident. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 734	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:20:26 - [708] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27872	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:22:14 - [709] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: @Nat. Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times. oh, really? then it's a win-win to use bulkheads then and nobody has an excuse for not using them! o7 Indeed. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:24:15 - [710] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Get this through your thick skull. I DON'T GANK And what makes you think that ANYONE would believe that lie? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What else do you call people who put multibillions in their ships and then fly them into a known killing field without any support, or in some cases without even being at the computer? It haven't gone through your head that the freighter pilots is just doing their job of transposring alot of things that can be worth alot of isk? Just because they transports alot of worthy things (that is their job) doesn't mean the gankers can just keep ganking other times after times without facing harder consequences the more criminal acts they do. Yes, the freighter pilots will still lose freighters like now. The only differences is that the gankers will have a harder time doing the ganks as easily the more they do it. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That they die because they do stupid things with the freighter is self evident. Again, that's just a lame excuse you use because you can. You have no evidences or facts to support that claim on AT ALL. I know about many smart freighter pilots who still get ganked. Because the ganking mechanics in EVE is way to easy to do while at the same time having way to little consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:26:31 - [711] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 391	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:30:14 - [712] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . Last I checked, even a fully-tanked freighter can haul more stuff than any other ship in the game, so it doesn't stop you from doing the intended job. Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27872	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:30:51 - [713] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Get this through your thick skull. I DON'T GANK And what makes you think that ANYONE would believe that lie? 'taint no lie, we've already been over this. Quote: It haven't gone through your head that the freighter pilots is just doing their job of transposring alot of things that can be worth alot of isk? If they were doing their job properly they'd have mitigated their risks by using an appropriately fitted ship, limiting their cargo value and having some support available. Quote: Just because they transports alot of worthy things (that is their job) doesn't mean the gankers can just keep ganking other times after times without facing harder consequences the more criminal acts they do. Yes, the freighter pilots will still lose freighters like now. The only differences is that the gankers will have a harder time doing the ganks as easily the more they do it. More nonsense that promotes NPC's taking on tasks that should be done by other players. Quote: Again, that's just a lame excuse you use because you can. You have no evidences or facts to support that claim on AT ALL. I know about many smart freighter pilots who still get ganked. Because the ganking mechanics in EVE is way to easy to do while at the same time having way to little consequences. How do you explain all the morons that enter Jita in freighters during a well publicised event all about killing ships and disrupting trade in Jita? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 734	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:31:01 - [714] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:33:59 - [715] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . Last I checked, even a fully-tanked freighter can haul more stuff than any other ship in the game, so it doesn't stop you from doing the intended job. Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:35:45 - [716] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? That's not the point . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 735	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:41:24 - [717] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? That's not the point . i say it is, period. Just Add Water
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:43:34 - [718] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things. Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:44:53 - [719] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: 'taint no lie, we've already been over this. You'd better have some evidence that I'm a liar the next time you accuse me of being one. It's a lie until you can prove that you are NOT a ganker. The way you posts here is a big indication that you are in fact a massive ganker. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If they were doing their job properly they'd have mitigated their risks by using an appropriately fitted ship, limiting their cargo value and having some support available. Then they are not doing their job of flying a freighter if they can't do their job of transposting alot of things that the freighter are made to do in the first place. I mean, hello, wake up dude. You are making no sense at all with your excuses. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: More nonsense that promotes NPC's taking on tasks that should be done by other players. It's not nonsense at all, because it will balance the game towards gankers and it will balance the game towards the freighter pilots or whoever that is a potential gank target to know that the criminals get treated as crinminals and get punished harder the more crimes they do. It's good for the game to have a criminal system like this, because a criminal is still a criminal who are supposed to be punished hader the more crimes they do. Or how do you think criminals should be treated? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: How do you explain all the morons that enter Jita in freighters during a well publicised event all about killing ships and disrupting trade in Jita? Is this about what the freighter pilots do, or are we talking about what consequences the gankers should get / face for keep doing crimes independent of what the freighter pilots do or independent of what system they jump into? We are talking about how criminals should be punished ONCE they commit a crime and nothing else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:49:13 - [720] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things. Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Yeah, they have to prepeare their freighter for PVP if they intentionally are going through low sec or 0.0 space. That's logic. But we are still talking about freighters in high sec that should be able to do their business with the right ship intended for their job with the right setup intended for the job relatively safely in high sec without having to get ganked every 15 minutes by criminals who doesn't get any more consequences the more they gank. That's not fair for those who endlessly gets ganked. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 948	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:50:43 - [721] - Quote Apparently I need to reply in order to stop getting notifications XD Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:55:59 - [722] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Apparently I need to reply in order to stop getting notifications XD Or you could go back to your earlier posts here and edit them where you just unticks 'Receive notifications for this topic'. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 355	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:56:59 - [723] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Apparently I need to reply in order to stop getting notifications XD Upper right corner should have an "unsubscribe" button. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:01:08 - [724] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. Because any freighter and jf are made to move yours 1000 destroyers only.. What kind of stupid ppl posting here? That frieghter have to travel 2hours just to get to his destination, if there would be a reborn option he would be ganged 8times in that time, that means few things: If u killed a 1b ship u shouldnt be able to access high sec for a few days and have to work out your standings or ull be insta poped by police (concord), And if you as a player would make another account just to gank another ship - u should be banned because u are abusing game mechanics.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:01:32 - [725] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things. Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Yeah, they have to prepeare their freighter for PVP if they intentionally are going through low sec or 0.0 space. That's logic. But we are still talking about freighters in high sec that should be able to do their business with the right ship intended for their job with the right setup intended for the job relatively safely in high sec without having to get ganked every 15 minutes by criminals who doesn't get any more consequences the more they gank. That's not fair for those who endlessly gets ganked. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491023&find=unread "Be able to afford a loss * Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. * In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. " You are supposed to be prepaired for PVP when you undock, no matter what the security status of the system is. Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27875	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:02:49 - [726] - Quote NightmareX wrote: [It's a lie until you can prove that you are NOT a ganker. The way you posts here is a big indication that you are in fact a massive ganker. We've been over this too. It is impossible to prove either way, although the overwhelming lack of evidence to the contrary suggests that I what I say is true. Unlike you, my posts suggest that I actually understand the mechanics in play, and how to use them to my advantage while hauling. Quote: Then they are not doing their job of flying a freighter if they can't do their job of transposting alot of things that the freighter are made to do in the first place. I mean, hello, wake up dude. You are making no sense at all with your excuses. Read what I actually wrote, and not what you think I wrote. Quote: It's not nonsense at all, because it will balance the game towards gankers and it will balance the game towards the freighter pilots or whoever that is a potential gank target to know that the criminals get treated as crinminals and get punished harder the more crimes they do. It's good for the game to have a criminal system like this, because a criminal is still a criminal who are supposed to be punished hader the more crimes they do. Or how do you think criminals should be treated? In your opinon Quote: Is this about what the freighter pilots do, or are we talking about what consequences the gankers should get / face for keep doing crimes independent of what the freighter pilots do or independent of what system they jump into? You stated that I had no evidence that people die because they do stupid things with freighters. I provided you with a glaring, and current, example of people dying because they do stupid things with freighters. That's about as on topic as you can get. Quote: We are talking about how criminals should be punished ONCE they commit a crime and nothing else. No, that's what you're talking about, fortunatley you don't get to dictate the way the conversation goes, much as you'd like to. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 735	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:05:43 - [727] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. Because any freighter and jf are made to move yours 1000 destroyers only.. What kind of stupid ppl posting here? That frieghter have to travel 2hours just to get to his destination, if there would be a reborn option he would be ganged 8times in that time, that means few things: If u killed a 1b ship u shouldnt be able to access high sec for a few days and have to work out your standings or ull be insta poped by police (concord), And if you as a player would make another account just to gank another ship - u should be banned because u are abusing game mechanics. hey mofo, what are you on about? can you speak properly, nobody can understand what the fck you are talking about. Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27877	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:11:26 - [728] - Quote @ Nat That guy is comedy gold, he thinks that ganking is against the EULA, specifically Rule 6 section C, item 16 of the EULA. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:14:26 - [729] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Prepearing for PVP is not the same as having to prepeare to get ganked all day long by gankers who will kill you anyways. Doesn't matter how much you try to PVP fit a freighter as the gankers will just bring enough ships to kill you anyways once they have scanned your ship where they see your fittings. The tools CCP have now to manage the risk vs reward specially when it comes to preventing getting ganked all day long without getting penalized more for continuing to do the crimes is way to bad and needs to be updated. Wander Prian wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491023&find=unread "Be able to afford a loss * Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. * In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. " You are supposed to be prepaired for PVP when you undock, no matter what the security status of the system is. Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:24:59 - [730] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Prepearing for PVP is not the same as having to prepeare to get ganked all day long by gankers who will kill you anyways. Doesn't matter how much you try to PVP fit a freighter as the gankers will just bring enough ships to kill you anyways once they have scanned your ship where they see your fittings. The tools CCP have now to manage the risk vs reward specially when it comes to preventing getting ganked all day long without getting penalized more for continuing to do the crimes is way to bad and needs to be updated. Wander Prian wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491023&find=unread "Be able to afford a loss * Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. * In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. " You are supposed to be prepaired for PVP when you undock, no matter what the security status of the system is. Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. Wormholer for life.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:30:36 - [731] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We've been over this too. It is impossible to prove either way, although the overwhelming lack of evidence to the contrary suggests that I what I say is true. Unlike you, my posts suggest that I actually understand the mechanics in play, and how to use them to my advantage while hauling. No we haven't. You have only claimed you are not a ganker without showing evidences while i clearly can see that you are a ganker by the way you posts here. Care to prove it or not? Not only that, but i know pretty much every mechanics in this game as i have been playing this game long enough to fully understand them pretty well. And i do know the punishment system in EVe against gankers / criminals is not where it should be. It should be harsher and harsher against a criminal the more crimes / ganking they do, which again is a normal way of handling criminals. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Read what I actually wrote, and not what you think I wrote. I wrote that the freighters are supposed to be freighters and not pvp fitted ships all the time, because they aren't doing their job effectively or professinal towards their customers if they do that. And then you / others claims that the frighter pilots are stupid for fitting their freighters for actual freighter work, or they being stupid for not fitting mods on a ship that the ship doesn't have to use in the first place to be able to do it's job. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In your opinon Says the guy who can't even answer my question. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You stated that I had no evidence that people die because they do stupid things with freighters. I provided you with a glaring, and current, example of people dying because they do stupid things with freighters. That's about as on topic as you can get. Your reply on the other hand... Yes, you don't have any evidences that freighter pilots are stupid based out of their setups. Because you / others in here are claiming the freighter pilots are stupid for fitting their freighters like freighters like they should do to be able to do their job effectively and do it professinally towards their customers. You said every freighter pilots are stupid for not overtanking their freighters with a tank and overfit their freighters with speed mods which the freighters are not made to be used with in the first place. So my reply are spot on and that's why i'm asking you why they are stupid for doing their only job and for fitting their ship for their intended usage. Again, do you Titans fitted with only speed mods as that might save them from being killed so they can just move faster out of the bubbles? No you don't, because the Titans are not made to be able to get out fast from a fight once they have commited to enter the fight. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No, that's what you're talking about, fortunately you don't get to dictate the way the conversation goes, however much you'd like to. That's what i have been talking about since i started to write in here. And you are doing all you can to twist on those things i hade mentioned about, because you know with a system like i have an idea on, will make the ganking life a bit harder for you (but still doable if you are fast and good enough to outsmart Concord / Faction Police). And you don't like changes or balance in this game, so who would guess that gankers would like a change like this? I mean, wow. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:31:38 - [732] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27878	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:32:45 - [733] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? Again, you don't get to dictate the direction of conversation. Read the thread title, it's a request for a Concord balance pass. Presenting arguments for such a pass being unnecessary is valid discussion. Thus far, both you and the OP have proven to be ignorant about the mechanics being discussed actually work, and are therefore not in a position to be presenting arguments for the proposal, or to be suggesting improvements. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2933	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:34:45 - [734] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: why? why should HS ganking carry with it more even consequences enforced by the game than anyplace else? why should player X's gameplay be subject to even more arbitrary consequences then it already is just because YOU don't like it. Ganking carries no consequences whatsoever. That is not about liking or not liking it, it's a fact. The consequences I listed are far from arbitrary, they are logical and have no influence on the feasibility of ganking itself. You can still store ships in a random Astrahus in the ganking area, you can still use alts for NPC stations, you can still fly around just as uninterrupted as before. The only thing that changes is that ganking becomes a little bit more player-driven and available for interaction and war dec dodging a bit harder for those who like the ganking but not the opposition. Tell me where these things are arbitrary or unreasonable? UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:35:10 - [735] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run? Because there already are consequences for criminals and they are good enough. You make it sound like every freighter that undocks is getting ganked ,which is not true. CCP has given you the tools to punish criminals, but if you don't want to take advange of those, you don't get to cry for more. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:41:11 - [736] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? Again, you don't get to dictate the direction of conversation. Read the thread title, it's a request for a Concord balance pass. Presenting arguments for such a pass being unnecessary is valid discussion. Thus far, both you and the OP have proven to be ignorant about the mechanics being discussed actually work, and are therefore not in a position to be presenting arguments for the proposal, or to be suggesting improvements. No, we have proven that some of you are out of arguments and have to throw out lame excuses to make you more relevant. You have given no explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals and have only said 'it's a game' and 'this is not how EVE works'. Maybe you shouldn't tell me / us something we already know? Just because things are like that, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving the game from ideas from the communituy. It's that simple. Because this is about changing a broken mechanic for the better where criminals are treated as ACTUAL criminals and not like a yoyo-duck who can fart around like nothing ever has happened after doing a crime like it is now. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:48:50 - [737] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run? Because there already are consequences for criminals and they are good enough. You make it sound like every freighter that undocks is getting ganked ,which is not true. CCP has given you the tools to punish criminals, but if you don't want to take advange of those, you don't get to cry for more. No, and that's where you are completely wrong. The penalties for the criminals are NOT fine when you can just keep dicking around doing the same crime over and over without having to fear ANY more consequences over the consequence you got the first time you commited a crime. The penalties you get for doing the first crime from Concord is like kicking you in the butt. It hurts a little, but you can easily handle the next kick in the butt if you do the same crime again. Because of that, you see that you can just keep doing it no problem. Heck, when i was young and was doing bad things, i one time did steal a pack of bubblegum from a store. I got denied access to that store for a whole 1 month, for just stealing a small pack of bubblegum. Do you think i would get another 1 month again for stealing from them again? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27879	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:49:42 - [738] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No we haven't. You have only claimed you are not a ganker without showing evidences while i clearly can see that you are a ganker by the way you posts here. Care to prove it or not? Yes we have and nope I have no need to, you're the one that initially claimed that everybody that is against your "idea" has a gank alt, the onus of proof is on you. Quote: Not only that, but i know pretty much every mechanics in this game as i have been playing this game long enough to fully understand them pretty well. And i do know the punishment system in EVe against gankers / criminals is not where it should be. It should be harsher and harsher against a criminal the more crimes / ganking they do, which again is a normal way of handling criminals. Judging by your posting you don't, people have been constantly correcting you on your knowledge of game mechanics. Quote: Says the guy who can't even answer my question. I'm assuming you mean "how do I think criminals should be treated?" I answered that about 15-20 pages ago. Quote: Yes, you don't have any evidences that freighter pilots are stupid based out of their setups. Because you / others in here are claiming the freighter pilots are stupid for fitting their freighters like freighters like they should do to be able to do their job effectively and do it professinally towards their customers. You said every freighter pilots are stupid for not overtanking their freighters with a tank and overfit their freighters with speed mods which the freighters are not made to be used with in the first place. So my reply are spot on and that's why i'm asking you why they are stupid for doing their only job and for fitting their ship for their intended usage. Again, do you Titans fitted with only speed mods as that might save them from being killed so they can just move faster out of the bubbles? No you don't, because the Titans are not made to be able to get out fast from a fight once they have commited to enter the fight. No we're saying that fitting a freighter for max cargo is a dumb idea, and that you're dumb for doing it. There is no such thing as over-tanked for a freighter, it is either tanked, or it is not; FYI bulkheads aren't a speed mod, they are a tank mod that actually increases your align to warp time, in short they're an anti speed mod. I'll ignore your off-topic stuff about Titans as it has no relevance in a discussion about hisec specific mechanics Quote: That's what i have been talking about since i started to write in here. And you are doing all you can to twist on those things i hade mentioned about, because you know with a system like i have an idea on, will make the ganking life a bit harder for you (but still doable if you are fast and good enough to outsmart Concord / Faction Police). And you don't like changes or balance in this game, so who would guess that gankers would like a change like this? I mean, wow. It has been said repeatedly that people think your idea is ill conceived, poorly researched and generally a steaming turd of an idea; both in terms of gameplay and balance. The only people that think it's a good idea are the OP, whose idea is just as bad, and someone who thinks that ganking is against the EULA. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27880	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:56:46 - [739] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Again, you don't get to dictate the direction of conversation. Read the thread title, it's a request for a Concord balance pass. Presenting arguments for such a pass being unnecessary is valid discussion. Thus far, both you and the OP have proven to be ignorant about the mechanics being discussed actually work, and are therefore not in a position to be presenting arguments for the proposal, or to be suggesting improvements. No, we have proven that some of you are out of arguments and have to throw out lame excuses and twist the actual things i'm talking about to something else to make you more relevant and to take the discussion away from the actual issue i'm talking about here. You've proven several things, none of which are to your credit Quote: You have given no explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE and have only said 'it's a game' and 'this is not how EVE works'. Maybe you shouldn't tell me / us something we obviously know already? They're already treated as criminals, with the term criminal being defined by CCP and the game mechanics they've provided which deal with them. You've yet to provide any explanations why CCP should change the way that they're treated beyond your ill informed opinion and cries of "I want" Quote: Just because things are like that, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving the game from ideas from the community. It's that simple. Because this is about changing a broken mechanic for the better where criminals are treated as ACTUAL criminals and not like a yoyo-duck who can fart around like nothing ever has happened after doing a crime like it is now. Many of us don't think that it's broken, welcome to the world of differing opinions. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:01:17 - [740] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. Because any freighter and jf are made to move yours 1000 destroyers only.. What kind of stupid ppl posting here? That frieghter have to travel 2hours just to get to his destination, if there would be a reborn option he would be ganged 8times in that time, that means few things: If u killed a 1b ship u shouldnt be able to access high sec for a few days and have to work out your standings or ull be insta poped by police (concord), And if you as a player would make another account just to gank another ship - u should be banned because u are abusing game mechanics. hey mofo, what are you on about? can you speak properly, nobody can understand what the fck you are talking about. Hey mofo - stop speaking for others;

Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 736	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:03:29 - [741] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; hey s2pid, anybody replied to your post yet? yeah, ..\|.. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:05:15 - [742] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yes we have and nope I have no need to, you're the one that initially claimed that everybody that is against your "idea" has a gank alt, the onus of proof is on you. Where are your proofs that you are not a ganker? I can't find it here. So until you can prove that, i stand on my argument that you are a massive ganker by the way you posts here. That are my proof in this case. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Judging by your posting you don't, people have been constantly correcting you on your knowledge of game mechanics. I do knows this pretty well. Maybe you should explain to me why i don't know the mechanics and why criminals shouldn't be treated like criminals and not like farting ducks farting around in high sec like nothing has ever happened? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I'm assuming you mean "how do I think criminals should be treated?" I answered that about 15-20 pages ago. You still haven't given ANY explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as actual criminals in EVE. Like i have said several times already, the only explanation you / others have given is 'it's a game' and 'that's not how EVE is'. That doesn't explain why we should change how criminals in EVE works. I'm just sayin. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No we're saying that fitting a freighter for max cargo is a dumb idea, and that you're dumb for doing it. There is no such thing as over-tanked for a freighter, it is either tanked, or it is not; FYI bulkheads aren't a speed mod, they are a tank mod that actually increases your align to warp time, in short they're an anti speed mod. I'll ignore your off-topic stuff about Titans as it has no relevance in a discussion about hisec specific mechanics Sooooooo, again, you are claiming a player is stupid for using the freighters as a professional transport ship, aka it's intended usage and stupid for not fitting a freigher with a bunch of PVP mods? Let me just say LOL to that. And the thing i said about a Titan was just a perfect example on how stupidly you think they should fit their ship, JUST so they can save their ship. It was so perfect that you couldn't even counter argument against it. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: It has been said repeatedly that people think your idea is ill conceived, poorly researched and generally a steaming turd of an idea; both in terms of gameplay and balance. The only people that think it's a good idea are the OP, whose idea is just as bad, and someone who thinks that ganking is against the EULA. Yes, i know pretty well that some have said to my that my idea is dumb. I don't even have an issue with that alone, but i haven't seen ANY explanation on WHY it is supposed to be dumb. Because i think a criminal should be treated like a criminal and not like a farting duck with a free pass to keep doing whatever crimes they want to do in high sec without facing harder consequences the more they do their crimes. And as i think it's not just me who thinks that a criminal should be treated as a criminal, then i'm pretty sure many will agree with me. The only reason you don't agree with me here is because you are a ganker yourself and doesn't want to faces more challenges to keep ganking the more you do it. You don't have to have a high IQ to figure this out. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27880	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:05:15 - [743] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: hey mofo, what are you on about? can you speak properly, nobody can understand what the fck you are talking about. Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; I'm fairly sure that many people agree with him, I certainly do. Your gibberish is unintelligible. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:07:34 - [744] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; hey s2pid, anybody replied to your post yet? yeah, ..\|.. I don't give a **** when the garbage like u replay's in such a way :) Back to topic @ Try to Compare a PK system (aka ganking in EVE) in Lineage and in EVE; IN Lineage if you PK (not marked player) you get a Wanted status - and u would gonna lose your gear if you be hunted down - EVERYONE want to kill you, you are not safe in town; You have to put much effort to lose this status; In Eve - u just gank, die cause of concord, wait 15 minutes - u just lost nothing at all, maybe 15 minutes for a coffee break; as u earn much more from this gank than your ship was worth.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:10:37 - [745] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You've proven several things, none of which are to your credit Like what? All i have said is to let EVE treat criminals like actual criminals and not like fake criminals with a free pass to do whatever crimes they like to do after 15 minutes. What's so bad about treating criminals as actual criminals in the first place? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They're already treated as criminals, with the term criminal being defined by CCP and the game mechanics they've provided which deal with them. You've yet to provide any explanations why CCP should change the way that they're treated beyond your ill informed opinion and cries of "I want" There is a difference from being treated as fake criminal or low risk criminal when you do highly illegal things in high sec to actually being treated like an actual criminal. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Many of us don't think that it's broken, welcome to the world of differing opinions. Ofc you will say that as a ganker. Tell me something i'm not aware of. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27880	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:33:25 - [746] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Where are your proofs that you are not a ganker? I can't find it here. So until you can prove that, i stand on my argument that you are a massive ganker by the way you posts here. That are my proof in this case. Where is your proof that I am, you made the statement that everybody who disagrees with you is a ganker. That statement is prior to me saying that I am not a ganker, ergo the onus of proof is on you. What you're doing is known as deflection, you've been caught in a lie and are trying to hide it by accusing others of doing the same. Quote: I do knows this pretty well. Maybe you should explain to me why i don't know the mechanics Because you're obviously ignorant of them, if you knew how the mechanics worked we wouldn't have to constantly correct you on your understanding of them Quote: and why criminals shouldn't be treated like criminals and not like farting ducks farting around in high sec like nothing has ever happened? You still haven't given ANY explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as actual criminals in EVE. Like i have said several times already, the only explanation you / others have given is 'it's a game' and 'that's not how EVE is'. That doesn't explain why we should change how criminals in EVE works. I'm just sayin. Right back at ya, you've failed to provide any reasons why they should be treated in a way similar to the way that they are treated in the real world (you're the person who keeps bringing the real world into it). Our reasons for not doing so are actually fairly valid. Eve is not the real world, it is an escape from the real world; and your idea would generate ball ache for CCP, in terms of time, code, implementation and backlash. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Sooooooo, again, you are claiming a player is stupid for using the freighters as a professional transport ship, aka it's intended usage and stupid for not fitting a freigher with a bunch of PVP mods? Let me just say LOL to that. If you want to go down the intended use route... A freighter is considered by CCP to be a capital ship, capital ships are corporate level assets that require a support fleet to operate effectively. Fitting for max cargo and jumping into a hornets nest without support is not the intended use. I didn't need a counter to your Titan argument, it is utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand. Would you like to purchase another straw to clutch at? Quote: Yes, i know pretty well that some have said to my that my idea is dumb. I don't even have an issue with that alone, but i haven't seen ANY explanation on WHY it is supposed to be dumb. Because i think a criminal should be treated like a criminal and not like a farting duck with a free pass to keep doing whatever crimes they want to do in high sec without facing harder consequences the more they do their crimes. And as i think it's not just me who thinks that a criminal should be treated as a criminal, then i'm pretty sure many will agree with me. The only reason you don't agree with me here is because you are a ganker yourself and doesn't want to faces more challenges to keep ganking the more you do it. You don't have to have a high IQ to figure this out. There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 736	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:58:02 - [747] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; hey s2pid, anybody replied to your post yet? yeah, ..\|.. I don't give a **** when the garbage like u replay's in such a way :) Back to topic @ Try to Compare a PK system (aka ganking in EVE) in Lineage and in EVE; IN Lineage if you PK (not marked player) you get a Wanted status - and u would gonna lose your gear if you be hunted down - EVERYONE want to kill you, you are not safe in town; You have to put much effort to lose this status; In Eve - u just gank, die cause of concord, wait 15 minutes - u just lost nothing at all, maybe 15 minutes for a coffee break; as u earn much more from this gank than your ship was worth. go back to lineage and uninstall EvE pls, we don't need your kind here. Just Add Water
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:32:31 - [748] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where is your proof that I am, you made the statement that everybody who disagrees with you is a ganker. That statement is prior to me saying that I am not a ganker, ergo the onus of proof is on you. What you're doing is known as deflection, you've been caught in a lie and are trying to hide it by accusing others of doing the same. Like i have said, the way you posts here and defends a broken mechanic, it's not hard to see on what side you are on. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because you're obviously ignorant of them, if you knew how the mechanics worked we wouldn't have to constantly correct you on your understanding of them You haven't corrected me on anything towards understanding how a criminal should be treated like. A criminal in EVE now is not being treated like a true criminal. You get a lil 15 minute timer and you are a free man to do whatever crime you want to do again without ANY harsher penalties for continuing to do the crimes like every 15 minutes. Such a nice criminal system right there folks, lol. So maybe you should explain to me why the criminal system shouldn't be changed when it's obvious that the criminals have it way to easy by keep doing their crimes over and over again without any more penalties. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Right back at ya, you've failed to provide any reasons why they should be treated in a way similar to the way that they are treated in the real world (you're the person who keeps bringing the real world into it). Our reasons for not doing so are actually fairly valid. The not least of which are that Eve is not the real world, it is an escape from the real world; and that your idea would generate considerable ball ache for CCP, in terms of time, code, implementation and backlash. Because EVE is a game about humans flying spaceships. And because its all about humans this way when it's about the characters, then it should be logic to treat criminals like real criminals like in real life with humans. So yes, EVE can be compared with real life when real life have planets, galaxies, space station, asteroid belts, stars and humans and so on like in EVE. Again, explain why a game that is all about real humans (under a character) shouldn't be treated as real life criminals? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want to go down the intended use route... A freighter is considered by CCP to be a capital ship, capital ships are corporate level assets that require a support fleet to operate effectively. Fitting for max cargo and jumping into a hornets nest without support is not the intended use. I didn't need a counter to your Titan argument, it is utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand. Would you like to purchase another straw to clutch at? Ok, so high sec is suddenly a hornets nest and not a high security space where most peoples are supposed to have many ways of avoiding that kind of things to begin with? If high sec is a hornets nest, then what the hell is the whole point of having a high sec to begin with then if you can't be in a space where you can be relatively safe where you shouldn't get ganked to hell and back every 15 mins which isn't what high sec is about? Yes, you are like i have said free to gank others in high sec like always, but NOT without facing harder penalties the more you ganks where the ganks will be hader to do the more you do them. That's the whole idea. This is the exact thing you can't explain on why it's a bad idea to have a system like that. Oh buuuhuu, it makes your ganking harder. Who cares about that when the freighter pilots or whoever that might get ganked wont have a good gameplay before they can see that the gankers can't just freely roam around everywhere in high sec without ANY issues and without facing harsher penalties for committing more and more crimes. Do you think it's fun for those who have to live with getting potentially getting ganked every 15 minutes where the freighter pilit has to suffer alot while the gankers who are highly breaking the rules of high sec isn't suffering at all and aren't facing any more penalties the more crimes you do? If you want balance in EVE, you can't just think about what the gankers do, you have to think about what every sides of the eve does and get. Simpler than that it can't get. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:36:30 - [749] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. Continuing this conversation with you is pointless, you just keep repeating yourself while adding nothing of value. You say there is plenty of explanations of why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement. But i can't seems to find those. Care to post some of those explanations that explains in highly details on why a game that is about humans as characters shouldn't be treated as humans for committing crimes? I don't want the lame posts where someone says it's a game and it's not how EVE works, because everyone knows that. But everyone also knows that even though this is not how EVE currently works, it still can be improved / changed for the better for all sides in the long run. Again, read over why i think the risk free ganking some of you do it stupid on why it should be changed to more a risky business to do. Because having no risks doing crimes is not what the risk vs reward concept is about. If you have no risks on what you are doing, you shouldn't have any rewards for it either. And as you as a ganker have no risks except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes before you can keep doing your crimes in empire like nothing has ever happened before again, then you should get no reward for that either. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. If there have been plenty of explanation on why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement, then sure, go ahead and link them to me. Remember to not give me the lame posts where they say it's a game and this is not how EVE currently works. Because everyone knows that. Show me a post where someone have explained in highly details why a criminal in EVE shouldn't be treated as a real criminal that should face harder penalties the more crimes they do. Again, i have got no explanations on why this is bad. ABSOLUTELY nothing. And a freighter pilot is NOT lazy or greedy for doing it's intended job of delivering stuffs in a freigher the way a freighter is made to be in the first place. My idea solves a big problem that the criminals has to work hader to keep ganking in high sec the more they do crimes. It's called risk vs reward. But because you have no risk, you shouldn't really have a big reward either. It's that simple. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:42:02 - [750] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. Continuing this conversation with you is pointless, you just keep repeating yourself while adding nothing of value. You say there is plenty of explanations of why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement. But i can't seems to find those. Care to post some of those explanations that explains in highly details on why a game that is about humans as characters shouldn't be treated as humans for committing crimes? I don't want the lame posts where someone says it's a game and it's not how EVE works, because everyone knows that. But everyone also knows that even though this is not how EVE currently works, it still can be improved / changed for the better for all sides in the long run. Again, read over why i think the risk free ganking some of you do it stupid on why it should be changed to more a risky business to do. Because having no risks doing crimes is not whar eisk vs reward is. If you have no risks on what you are doing, you shouldn't have any rewards for it either. And as you as a ganker have no risks except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes before you can keep doing your crimes in epire like nothing has ever happened before again, then you should get no reward for that either. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. If there have been plenty of explanation on why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement, then sure, go ahead and link them to me. Remember to not give me the lame posts where they say it's a game and this is not how EVE currently works. Because everyone knows that. Show me a post where someone have explained in highly details why a criminal in EVE shouldn't be treated as a real criminal that should face harder penalties the more crimes they do. Again, i have got no explanations on why this is bad. ABSOLUTELY nothing. And a freighter pilot is NOT lazy or greedy for doing it's intended job of delivering stuffs in a freigher the way a freighter is made to be in the first place. My idea solves a big problem that the criminals has to work hader to keep ganking in high sec the more they do crimes. It's called risk vs reward. But because you have no risk, you shouldn't really have a big reward either. It's that simple. The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. Wormholer for life.

unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 191	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:44:01 - [751] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; hey s2pid, anybody replied to your post yet? yeah, ..\|.. I don't give a **** when the garbage like u replay's in such a way :) Back to topic @ Try to Compare a PK system (aka ganking in EVE) in Lineage and in EVE; IN Lineage if you PK (not marked player) you get a Wanted status - and u would gonna lose your gear if you be hunted down - EVERYONE want to kill you, you are not safe in town; You have to put much effort to lose this status; In Eve - u just gank, die cause of concord, wait 15 minutes - u just lost nothing at all, maybe 15 minutes for a coffee break; as u earn much more from this gank than your ship was worth. You are wrong about lost nothing: what Ganker lost is: his ship that will not be covered by Insurance. loss of Security Status (low enough, you would be hunted by faction police in high sec, and be shoot able by any players) victim can set Kill Right to public for any hunter to use, which enable everyone to hunt you down if they want It is not gankers fault if juicy target make themselves easy for gankers to kill. I do remember before CODE come in, almost no one bother to use Procurer/Skiff because only threat was npc rats. Now, you can find miners using procurer/skiffs in system that is infested by CODE. Because people have 2 choice: Adapt or Die. It is not ganker fault if you choose to die instead try to adapt.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:48:41 - [752] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and over again in the infinite loop without having anything to risk, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do in high sec. How many ***** times do i have to say this? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:52:58 - [753] - Quote unidenify wrote: what Ganker lost is: his ship that will not be covered by Insurance. loss of Security Status (low enough, you would be hunted by faction police in high sec, and be shoot able by any players) victim can set Kill Right to public for any hunter to use, which enable everyone to hunt you down if they want 1. He lost a couple of million isks which isn't a loss to anyone considering what they gain for ganking a freighter. 2. The security status doesn't prevent you from committing crimes in high sec. 3. And no one of those will ever be able to catch you before you have ganked someone. Again, HUUUUGE rewards for no risks which goes against the risk vs reward balance / concept of EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:57:42 - [754] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and aover again in the infinite loop, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do. How many ******* times do i have to say this? Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. Wormholer for life.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:58:39 - [755] - Quote NightmareX wrote: unidenify wrote: what Ganker lost is: his ship that will not be covered by Insurance. loss of Security Status (low enough, you would be hunted by faction police in high sec, and be shoot able by any players) victim can set Kill Right to public for any hunter to use, which enable everyone to hunt you down if they want 1. He lost a couple of million isks which isn't a loss to anyone considering what they gain for ganking a freighter. 2. The security status doesn't prevent you from committing crimes in high sec. 3. And no one of those will ever be able to catch you before you have ganked someone. Again, HUUUUGE rewards for no risks which goes against the risk vs reward balance / concept of EVE. You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:04:58 - [756] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal. You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:07:54 - [757] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal. You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec. If you want to police the criminals, you can already do it. Outlaws are free to be shot as well as anyone who has just commited a criminal act, so just get out there and start hunting. but you won't, as you don't see that as being worth your time, because ISK/hr, so CCP has to change the mechanics as you "feel" them being wrong. The game is working as it should, but you just won't accept that fact. This isn't real life. We are playing a game. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to play... Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:15:32 - [758] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. What are those tools you are talking about? If a freighter pilot want to do his job effectively and professioonal, then he can't just start to fit their freighters with PVP mods just so they "maybe can" save their ships if they gets unlucky getting ganked by criminals. because they aren't doing their intended job of being a freighter pilot if they PVP fit their freighters. Yes, are they gonna freight, or are they gonna PVP? So the tool of fitting differently for them is not really a choice. And the 2nd tool you probably are going to say, is by using alts / friends. But tell me how a freighter pilot should be able to use an alt or friends when the freighter pilot have to use alts or friends and cover the 3-4 jumps out from every direction / to every systems from the system you are in to make sure a potential bumping Machariel isn't there or to prevent a ganking fleet of Destroyers to get the freighter as the Destrouyer fleet can easily take 3 jumps and still arrive at the freighter before it has entered warp, even without being bumped. Using an alt or some few friends this way doesn't work when you take into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there and how fast a ganking fleet of Destroyer can move several systems before a freighter can enter warp anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:17:45 - [759] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal. You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec. If you want to police the criminals, you can already do it. Outlaws are free to be shot as well as anyone who has just commited a criminal act, so just get out there and start hunting. but you won't, as you don't see that as being worth your time, because ISK/hr, so CCP has to change the mechanics as you "feel" them being wrong. The game is working as it should, but you just won't accept that fact. This isn't real life. We are playing a game. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to play... The problem is that we as human players can't even come close on controlling the criminals as fast as Concord can do. Because of that, we as human players are useless before a gank actually happens and for the minute after has happened. And once the gank is happening, we can't just insta teleport to you and start shooting you either. So this wont work when it comes to this type of ganking. However, this will rather work better against suspects for example that we can go after. So the "tool' you say we have this way are not working against this type of ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:22:55 - [760] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. What are those tools you are talking about? If a freighter pilot want to do his job effectively and professioonal, then he can't just start to fit their freighters with PVP mods just so they "maybe can" save their ships if they gets unlucky getting ganked by criminals. because they aren't doing their intended job of being a freighter pilot if they PVP fit their freighters. Yes, are they gonna freight, or are they gonna PVP? So the tool of fitting differently for them is not really a choice. And the 2nd tool you probably are going to say, is by using alts / friends. But tell me how a freighter pilot should be able to use an alt or friends when the freighter pilot have to use alts or friends and cover the 3-4 jumps out from every direction / to every systems from the system you are in to make sure a potential bumping Machariel isn't there or to prevent a ganking fleet of Destroyers to get the freighter as the Destrouyer fleet can easily take 3 jumps and still arrive at the freighter before it has entered warp, even without being bumped. Using an alt or some few friends this way doesn't work when you take into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there and how fast a ganking fleet of Destroyer can move several systems before a freighter can enter warp anyways. If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. Also, the gankers are working as a team and then you complain how the freighter is supposed to be viable as a solo-job? That's not how it works sunshine. Wormholer for life.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:42:34 - [761] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. Also, the gankers are working as a team and then you complain how the freighter is supposed to be viable as a solo-job? That's not how it works sunshine. They takes risks no matter what setup they use. A freighter pilot is not supposed to fly around with tanking / speed mods as a freighter is not supposed to be tanked or used with speed mods as the freighter is slow as a snail to begin with. Anyone who undocks are taking risks of getting ganked, PERIOD. But that's not the issue here. The issue is like i have said a million times by now on how criminals gets treated by the police, specially when you can just do the same crime over and over again without facing any harder penalties. That's the issue. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:44:21 - [762] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and aover again in the infinite loop, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do. How many ******* times do i have to say this? Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. Would you be so kind and explain what kind of "Tools" a Freighter Pilot can use to avoid being gankged?
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 355	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:46:42 - [763] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and aover again in the infinite loop, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do. How many ******* times do i have to say this? Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. Would you be so kind and explain what kind of "Tools" a Freighter Pilot can use to avoid being gankged? -webs -a scout -bulkheads -friends to bring ECM or remote reps -not carrying 90 bazillion ISK in cargo I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2935	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:47:31 - [764] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. How I love it when noobs run their mouths about things they have no clue about. It does absolutely not matter if a freighter fits tank or cargo expanders. Not. In. Any. Way. Every freighter will die if the cargo is just juicy enough. And having to go 3x through Niarja or Uedama instead of 1x is not going to make you safer either. It in fact increasing your risk considerably because you give bumpers and scanners more opportunities to catch you. You cannot prepare a freighter against or for PVP. As soon as it got engaged in a serious way (ie. not just a wannabee-ransomer-Machariel) by a Blackbird (if webber was used) or just a Machariel, it is dead. Even the highest tank and logi reps from AG or whatever cannot change that. Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:52:51 - [765] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. How I love it when noobs run their mouths about things they have no clue about. It does absolutely not matter if a freighter fits tank or cargo expanders. Not. In. Any. Way. Every freighter will die if the cargo is just juicy enough. And having to go 3x through Niarja or Uedama instead of 1x is not going to make you safer either. It in fact increasing your risk considerably because you give bumpers and scanners more opportunities to catch you. You cannot prepare a freighter against or for PVP. As soon as it got engaged in a serious way (ie. not just a wannabee-ransomer-Machariel) by a Blackbird (if webber was used) or just a Machariel, it is dead. Even the highest tank and logi reps from AG or whatever cannot change that. Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. This
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:53:50 - [766] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and aover again in the infinite loop, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do. How many ******* times do i have to say this? Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. Would you be so kind and explain what kind of "Tools" a Freighter Pilot can use to avoid being gankged? -webs -a scout -bulkheads -friends to bring ECM or remote reps -not carrying 90 bazillion ISK in cargo Still don't know if you are serious or just trolling...
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:57:36 - [767] - Quote So now we are back at ganking at a thread that supposedly is not about ganking? This is just a "nerf ganking" thread, no matter how you look at it. Wormholer for life.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 734	Posted - 2017.02.27 15:09:15 - [768] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. How I love it when noobs run their mouths about things they have no clue about. It does absolutely not matter if a freighter fits tank or cargo expanders. Not. In. Any. Way. Every freighter will die if the cargo is just juicy enough. And having to go 3x through Niarja or Uedama instead of 1x is not going to make you safer either. It in fact increasing your risk considerably because you give bumpers and scanners more opportunities to catch you. You cannot prepare a freighter against or for PVP. As soon as it got engaged in a serious way (ie. not just a wannabee-ransomer-Machariel) by a Blackbird (if webber was used) or just a Machariel, it is dead. Even the highest tank and logi reps from AG or whatever cannot change that. Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Thank you for explaining the facts here. I gave you a thumbs up for that. Wander Prian wrote: So now we are back at ganking at a thread that supposedly is not about ganking? This is just a "nerf ganking" thread, no matter how you look at it. Balancing it doesn't mean it has to be nerfed. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 355	Posted - 2017.02.27 15:25:05 - [769] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: -webs -a scout -bulkheads -friends to bring ECM or remote reps -not carrying 90 bazillion ISK in cargo Still don't know if you are serious or just trolling... I'm sorry my facts disagree with your hallucination. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6026	Posted - 2017.02.27 15:40:49 - [770] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. How I love it when noobs run their mouths about things they have no clue about. It does absolutely not matter if a freighter fits tank or cargo expanders. Not. In. Any. Way. By themselves, no. But when added with keeping the cargo value down it certainly can help. My JF has just under 900,000 EHP with expanders. And I can always jump out to my emergency cyno. Would you, if you were the FC of a gank fleet, pick me...or the anti-tanked freighter with 5 billion ISK in cargo (I would never carry that much cargo value BTW, I'd make multiple trips)? I would hazard the same is true for a charon with bulkheads and 1 billion ISK in cargo value. To be clear, again, nobody is saying: Bulkheads and you will never ever die, but 32.5 billion of nocxium in your freighter. Nobody is saying that. Nobody. Nobody. What they are saying it is part of the overall strategy of make your freighter uneconomical to gank. Add in a scout, webs, and such and you will be safer than if you anti-tank your freighter, fill it with 5 billion ISK, and then fly solo through Uedama. How much safer? Based on the RFF annual reports, alot safer. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6027	Posted - 2017.02.27 16:24:28 - [771] - Quote This issue was discussed and settled. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6761597 "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6027	Posted - 2017.02.27 16:36:32 - [772] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Okay, this is not exactly true. If your scout jumps in and sees a blackbird and a macherial there...and you decide to try and get through anyways, you are taking tremendous risk. When you take tremendous risk, you should expect it to blow up in your face more often than when you don't take tremendous risk. So, if you have an escort of a scout and he tells you that you face a situation of tremendous risk, your best bet is likely to not take on that tremendous risk. Dock up and wait. I am not sure why people find this problematic. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2936	Posted - 2017.02.27 16:58:21 - [773] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: By themselves, no. But when added with keeping the cargo value down it certainly can help. My JF has just under 900,000 EHP with expanders. And I can always jump out to my emergency cyno. Would you, if you were the FC of a gank fleet, pick me...or the anti-tanked freighter with 5 billion ISK in cargo (I would never carry that much cargo value BTW, I'd make multiple trips)? Care to show me the JF fitting that has 900k EHP with 3 expanders fitted? And that you can always jump out to your emergency cyno is a gross underestimation of what tools gankers have available to prevent just that. A look into Isanamo's recent ganking history (lid to late January and early February in particular) where gankers threw loads of suicide tacklers at any JF coming through a gate and landed their gank fleet right on the JF. Considering that your JF is in itself a 7B+ killmail with added cargo as icing on the cake, I would gank that freighter first and then kill you a bit later. Time is not an issue after all. You also cannot split something like a Fortizar or Azbel into smaller pieces. However, people produce these things and need them moved. If everybody was like you or many other people in this thread, nothing would get moved. Teckos Pech wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Okay, this is not exactly true. If your scout jumps in and sees a blackbird and a macherial there...and you decide to try and get through anyways, you are taking tremendous risk. When you take tremendous risk, you should expect it to blow up in your face more often than when you don't take tremendous risk. So, if you have an escort of a scout and he tells you that you face a situation of tremendous risk, your best bet is likely to not take on that tremendous risk. Dock up and wait. I am not sure why people find this problematic. This does not help you if you travel through a pipe or an area that you cannot avoid in any way without increasing your risk even further. Niarja, for example, is not avoidable without adding even more risk to your journey. Uedama is not avoidable without switching it for another dangerzone and it would cost you 30+ additional jumps that no one is going to compensate you for. Sure, waiting is one option, but that time is also lost unless you have a way of doing something else in the meantime. I am not sure why people don't understand this. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 17:37:30 - [774] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The loot drop is not what matter to those being ganked... Look at both sides. Derp-dee-derp-dee-derp. The potential loot drop is what determines who gets ganked or not. So, 7 kills and 75 billion in loot. Let's subtract of 20 billion in hull value (and overestimate) which means that 55 million in loot. It means that on average, about 7.9 billion was in those ships of which 3.9 billion dropped in loot. Now...why was that possible? It was possible because freighter pilots put about 7.9 billion worth cargo into their cargo hold. If they had not done that, there would be nothing to post about. Lets just look at 5.9t vs 14bil.... and thats just karma fleet (burn jita events must be off the chain since this doesn't happen outside the burn jita events.) Kusion: 9.48t vs 31bil - a solo gank pilot Solo gank with multiple pilots. But why does he get 9.48 trillion? And have you separated out hull value vs. drop value? What? You haven't? Geee. How about how many JFs vs. freighters? Have you categorized the kill value vs. loss value by that category? No? Well ** son, you have some work to do don't you. Throwing around big numbers doesn't mean if they aren't put into context. Did you ever take a statistics course? Can you eve-mail me the professor's name? I want to contact him and have him give you and F retroactively. Everything you mentioned is meaningless. What do you think 7bil JF's are free or something. That's somewhere around $150 in plex value just for the hull. Why the he'll would I take those costs out of the figures. I could give a ** about only looking at it from a gankers perspective. I'm looking at it from an isk vs isk perspective. Nothing is free in this game aside from when CCP happens to hand some random stuff out for events. That must be the same reason why zkill doesnt pull all these random figures out of their numbers either. Because they are not meaningless. THE FUNNY THINGS IS, YOU CAN CUT IT ANY WAY YOU LIKE AND IT'S STILL GROSSLY UNBALANCED.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 17:40:47 - [775] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: By themselves, no. But when added with keeping the cargo value down it certainly can help. My JF has just under 900,000 EHP with expanders. And I can always jump out to my emergency cyno. Would you, if you were the FC of a gank fleet, pick me...or the anti-tanked freighter with 5 billion ISK in cargo (I would never carry that much cargo value BTW, I'd make multiple trips)? Care to show me the JF fitting that has 900k EHP with 3 expanders fitted? And that you can always jump out to your emergency cyno is a gross underestimation of what tools gankers have available to prevent just that. A look into Isanamo's recent ganking history (lid to late January and early February in particular) where gankers threw loads of suicide tacklers at any JF coming through a gate and landed their gank fleet right on the JF. Considering that your JF is in itself a 7B+ killmail with added cargo as icing on the cake, I would gank that freighter first and then kill you a bit later. Time is not an issue after all. Another fun fact: If you actually do something to mitigate the risk of involuntary PVP against your freighter, you increase the risk of actually getting your freighter into that kind of PVP. It has happened several times to my hauler that gankers target me or my webber specifically and hunt me for several systems just because I webbed my empty freighter to save some time. In essence and as said before: Whatever freighter pilots can do, it does not help them if people want them. And gankers always want them. You also cannot split something like a Fortizar or Azbel into smaller pieces. However, people produce these things and need them moved. If everybody was like you or many other people in this thread, nothing would get moved. Teckos Pech wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Okay, this is not exactly true. If your scout jumps in and sees a blackbird and a macherial there...and you decide to try and get through anyways, you are taking tremendous risk. When you take tremendous risk, you should expect it to blow up in your face more often than when you don't take tremendous risk. So, if you have an escort of a scout and he tells you that you face a situation of tremendous risk, your best bet is likely to not take on that tremendous risk. Dock up and wait. I am not sure why people find this problematic. This does not help you if you travel through a pipe or an area that you cannot avoid in any way without increasing your risk even further. Niarja, for example, is not avoidable without adding even more risk to your journey. Uedama is not avoidable without switching it for another dangerzone and it would cost you 30+ additional jumps that no one is going to compensate you for. Sure, waiting is one option, but that time is also lost unless you have a way of doing something else in the meantime. I am not sure why people don't understand this. Great points
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 17:54:02 - [776] - Quote Quote: so how can a single major faction (ex. caldari) control capsuleers if CONCORD itself which is supported by not only 1, but by 4 major factions, can not? not to mention the fact that caldari (for jita) are full of whimps and are incompetent, what do you expect them to accomplish against powerful capsuleers?! Well there is this thing called code, and these people called developers. When something needs a fixing, these developers with all their might, force the code to do something different.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:01:53 - [777] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Already gave you proof. KARMA FLEET: 4.98t vs 14bil. KUSION: 9.4t vs 31bil. ... CUT it up however you want and it's still unbalanced. It shows that gankers in highsec get to do whatever the **** they want without conflict or consequence that limits their actions
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:11:20 - [778] - Quote unidenify wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hey mofo - stop speaking for others; hey s2pid, anybody replied to your post yet? yeah, ..\|.. I don't give a **** when the garbage like u replay's in such a way :) Back to topic @ Try to Compare a PK system (aka ganking in EVE) in Lineage and in EVE; IN Lineage if you PK (not marked player) you get a Wanted status - and u would gonna lose your gear if you be hunted down - EVERYONE want to kill you, you are not safe in town; You have to put much effort to lose this status; In Eve - u just gank, die cause of concord, wait 15 minutes - u just lost nothing at all, maybe 15 minutes for a coffee break; as u earn much more from this gank than your ship was worth. You are wrong about lost nothing: what Ganker lost is: his ship that will not be covered by Insurance. loss of Security Status (low enough, you would be hunted by faction police in high sec, and be shoot able by any players) victim can set Kill Right to public for any hunter to use, which enable everyone to hunt you down if they want It is not gankers fault if juicy target make themselves easy for gankers to kill. I do remember before CODE come in, almost no one bother to use Procurer/Skiff because only threat was npc rats. Now, you can find miners using procurer/skiffs in system that is infested by CODE. Because people have 2 choice: Adapt or Die. It is not ganker fault if you choose to die instead try to adapt. Code, keep ganking miners all you want. This is a much bigger issue.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:15:27 - [779] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Okay, this is not exactly true. If your scout jumps in and sees a blackbird and a macherial there...and you decide to try and get through anyways, you are taking tremendous risk. When you take tremendous risk, you should expect it to blow up in your face more often than when you don't take tremendous risk. So, if you have an escort of a scout and he tells you that you face a situation of tremendous risk, your best bet is likely to not take on that tremendous risk. Dock up and wait. I am not sure why people find this problematic. If just having a mach on a gate should prevent a freighter from crossing... And all freighters should abide if they don't want to lose their shut, it becomes severely easy to shut down any major trade hub.
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 371	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:37:54 - [780] - Quote Funny that this thread emerges during / after Burn Jita. Freighter ganking doesn't happen like this but once a year when this occurs. Code ganking empty freighters in the pipe is a thing of the past with Loyalanon gone. Miniluv has a limit of 5b+ which is still at much risk due to drop luck, security status, and # of gankers. So outside of Burn Jita you see miniluv ganking 5b+ daily, but in no way are they patiently waiting out the 15m criminal timer with a constant stream of ganks waiting for them. You have the Russians that dont gank frequently, but use 100-200 people. The real profit comes from the whales that are 10b+ because even at 5b you are at a pretty high risk of ganking at a loss. I think all of you severely misjudge how much isk is profitted from ganking. Not to mention that gank loot does get rewarded to each member. HTFU

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:45:48 - [781] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: unless you provide any evidence that the rate of ganked freighter compared to the freighters that travels to the jita pipe line and are on auto pilots are high, 15 mins are infact short and needs to be further reduced, i say to 2 mins for balance. This has nothing to do with how many freighters that are ganked. It has ONLY to do with the consequences a ganker is facing for doing the same crimes over and over again with the current system that is the problem. ok, so how much of this activity impact the whole freighting business, if not at all, to warrant a change? take note, if you are making this change and it is not to address the frieghter ganking, then you can take this petition and shove it up your a**, we don't need this non-sense. quiet ganker ... the grown-up are talking.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:49:16 - [782] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? so what happens if the gankers don't have ships to use? suddenly your '15 min criminal timer' is not too long and irrelevant anymore, yes? create an industrial alt and manufacture... its not rocket science.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 18:51:49 - [783] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. WE ARE NOT HUMANS WE ARE IMMORTAL POWERFUL CAPSULEERS, CONCORD IS AFRAID OF US, THE ONLY THING SAVING THEM FROM ANNIHILATION IS BECAUSE WE DON"T CARE. Yeah, because that how it works in the game right.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 32	Posted - 2017.02.27 19:36:37 - [784] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: Freighter pilots who overload their holds and autopilot around deserve to be taught a lesson. Most of them don't seem to learn a thing so we will keep applying a clue-by-four to their heads until they get it. Also, ganking things actually takes a fair amount of skilled organization so your argument that ganking is too easy is automagically invalid. Also: GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûê GûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGûæFOR KIDSGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ Freighter pilot are bumped regardless of how they are fit and its incredibly easy. Can this be improved some? Yes. Is this mechanic good for the game? Yes. What's not good for the game is that gankers (criminals) who have overstayed their welcome are not prevented from continually staging and bringing gank ships into said system without saying sorry to Faction Police (repairing security status) first. This would require purchasing tags or mission running if you want to be a career criminal in highsec instead of just having an alt that can gank a freighter anytime you need isk for your agenda. And goons have a big agenda in null / low sec. You are not doing this to teach people a lesson. You are doing it because its an infinite loop of isk that allows your corp mates to avoid earning isk in-game, subbing, or having to buy plex. You steal trillions of isk from the backbone of EVE's marketplace (and other hard-working people) because the current mechanic allows you to. Only big corp battles should be generating this kind of isk for people - aside from the obvious other reasoning like flat out stealing it from a corp, scamming, being a great economist (hardly comparable), etc. As far as ganking goes, its not that hard. I believe I have read posts where gankers just recycle the loot they have gathered back into more bad contracts. I have solo ganked many times and its super simple to just stage at a manufacturing station and manufacture all the ships you need - half a dozen guys if your operation is very large. You can manufacture whatever you need with the basic materials. Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Since goons already stage in Jita, they just need to undock, head to 4-4, fill up on materials and warp back to Jita V - Moon 17 station. Not even one gate jump. This makes it super hard to take down that freighter (if AG). If you get attacked on undock, just dock back up. Gates are the weak spot here but goons dont even need to use them.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3786	Posted - 2017.02.27 19:53:43 - [785] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? im not counting anything... links were asked for. I asked for links that showed that freighters could be ganked solo as you claimed. These are not those links. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 19:56:33 - [786] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So please tell me how you intent to move an L or XL then? Of course you should have support for these kinds of moves but thats besides the point here.
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 3	Posted - 2017.02.27 19:57:07 - [787] - Quote Erich Einstein and NightmareX, all of your proposals to restrict the "evil professional gankers" would do nothing to stop them but hurt many many other players gameplay by lot.... What would stop a professional ganker group (and that are the people we are talking about here) from having 10, 20, 50 or more Alpha Accounts at their disposal, gank someone with one toon, then relog to another Alpha clone and go right at it again.... ??? They probably do that already.... I know you are suggesting making Alpha Clones unable to set the security setting to yellow or red, but that is an option wich has been dismissed by CCP already so no can do here.... All you two are coming up with is intended to make those freighter pilots safe and secure and be able to ship around without having to worry about anything, despite that even the vast majority of freighter pilots is either fine and content with ganking mechanics as they are or are even wishing for a buff for gankers.... You two are not even really affected by ganking, so what is your motivation here besides just trolling this thread to 50 and more pages by relentlessly repeating your silly claims for nerfs and essentially imposing gankers with up to a 24 hour ban??
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 19:59:16 - [788] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks. Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there. All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week. how is that a problem? If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs? Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills? im not counting anything... links were asked for. I asked for links that showed that freighters could be ganked solo as you claimed. These are not those links. Yeah Kusion... one guy ganking freighters. Don't be ********!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:00:28 - [789] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein and NightmareX, all of your proposals to restrict the "evil professional gankers" would do nothing to stop them but hurt many many other players gameplay by lot.... What would stop a professional ganker group (and that are the people we are talking about here) from having 10, 20, 50 or more Alpha Accounts at their disposal, gank someone with one toon, then relog to another Alpha clone and go right at it again.... ??? They probably do that already.... I know you are suggesting making Alpha Clones unable to set the security setting to yellow or red, but that is an option wich has been dismissed by CCP already so no can do here.... All you two are coming up with is intended to make those freighter pilots safe and secure and be able to ship around without having to worry about anything, despite that even the vast majority of freighter pilots is either fine and content with ganking mechanics as they are or are even wishing for a buff for gankers.... You two are not even really affected by ganking, so what is your motivation here besides just trolling this thread to 50 and more pages by relentlessly repeating your silly claims for nerfs and essentially imposing gankers with up to a 24 hour ban?? You obviously didnt read the OP... Alphas cant set to red. Nothing is set in stone. Things change with time. It has nothing to do with making freighters safe and secure. Its about controlling the isk grab of ganker fleet like Goons in jita.
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 3	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:07:13 - [790] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein and NightmareX, all of your proposals to restrict the "evil professional gankers" would do nothing to stop them but hurt many many other players gameplay by lot.... What would stop a professional ganker group (and that are the people we are talking about here) from having 10, 20, 50 or more Alpha Accounts at their disposal, gank someone with one toon, then relog to another Alpha clone and go right at it again.... ??? They probably do that already.... I know you are suggesting making Alpha Clones unable to set the security setting to yellow or red, but that is an option wich has been dismissed by CCP already so no can do here.... All you two are coming up with is intended to make those freighter pilots safe and secure and be able to ship around without having to worry about anything, despite that even the vast majority of freighter pilots is either fine and content with ganking mechanics as they are or are even wishing for a buff for gankers.... You two are not even really affected by ganking, so what is your motivation here besides just trolling this thread to 50 and more pages by relentlessly repeating your silly claims for nerfs and essentially imposing gankers with up to a 24 hour ban?? You obviously didnt read the OP... Alphas cant set to red. Nothing is set in stone. Things change with time. It has nothing to do with making freighters safe and secure. Its about controlling the isk grab of ganker fleet like Goons in jita. but they can set to yellow and that is all it needs to gank.... You may be jealous now of "how much ISK Goons make by ganking" but that is not really the point you started this thread

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:11:15 - [791] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: but they can set to yellow and that is all it needs to gank.... You may be jealous now of "how much ISK Goons make by ganking" but that is not really the point you started this thread You can't go criminal in highsec with yellow. Sorry... If I am mistaken, please explain. Jealous .... resorting to those kinds of comments means you really have nothing meaningful to say about my proposed in this thread.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3786	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:15:55 - [792] - Quote Using over 11 chars to gank is not solo. Nor is it a problem. Or at least no more a problem than multi-boxing mining, incursions etc EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:18:42 - [793] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Using over 11 chars to gank is not solo. Nor is it a problem. Or at least no more a problem than multi-boxing mining, incursions etc stop wondering off on every comment that is made. Relate it to the OP and why you agree or disagree
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 3	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:30:43 - [794] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: but they can set to yellow and that is all it needs to gank.... You may be jealous now of "how much ISK Goons make by ganking" but that is not really the point you started this thread You can't go criminal in highsec with yellow. Sorry... If I am mistaken, please explain. Jealous .... resorting to those kinds of comments means you really have nothing meaningful to say about my proposoal in this thread. You just confused me thee..... Alphas can set to red and that is something that will not be pondered with. CCP stated this and the arising "problems" are dealt with not being able to log on more than one account if oneis an Alpha account.....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:33:19 - [795] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sintei Ruhl wrote: but they can set to yellow and that is all it needs to gank.... You may be jealous now of "how much ISK Goons make by ganking" but that is not really the point you started this thread You can't go criminal in highsec with yellow. Sorry... If I am mistaken, please explain. Jealous .... resorting to those kinds of comments means you really have nothing meaningful to say about my proposoal in this thread. You just confused me thee..... Alphas can set to red and that is something that will not be pondered with. CCP stated this and the arising "problems" are dealt with not being able to log on more than one account if oneis an Alpha account..... I'll ponder with whatever I like. As I said, content / features change with time. Nothing is set in stone. If a new angle arises, things can be questioned further.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3786	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:36:48 - [796] - Quote Err i didn't say multi boxing is an issue. You implied it. If thats 'wandering off' that's on you. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:38:15 - [797] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Err i didn't say multi boxing is an issue. You implied it. If thats 'wandering off' that's on you. When in doubt, refer to OP.
Sintei Ruhl Verbrecherbande GmbH 3	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:43:45 - [798] - Quote Kudos to everybody who stands up against such game breaking proposals as brought forth by the OP - Troll.... May the gank be upon you whenever you enter High Sec ....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 38	Posted - 2017.02.27 20:45:42 - [799] - Quote Sintei Ruhl wrote: Kudos to everybody who stands up against such game breaking proposals as brought forth by the OP - Troll.... May the gank be upon you whenever you enter High Sec .... by now o/
Tengu Grib The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem 1562	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:04:23 - [800] - Quote Says he isn't against ganking, immediately proposes idea to make career ganking impossible. Just admit you're risk averse and don't want risk in Eve. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:11:56 - [801] - Quote Tengu Grib wrote: Says he isn't against ganking, immediately proposes idea to make career ganking impossible. Just admit you're risk averse and don't want risk in Eve. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. I know you want your cake and to eat it too but it just doesnt work that way when everyone's interests are involved.
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 372	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:16:47 - [802] - Quote Do you have an issue with almost all freighter gank victims being 5b+? HTFU
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 362	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:17:18 - [803] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Tengu Grib wrote: Says he isn't against ganking, immediately proposes idea to make career ganking impossible. Just admit you're risk averse and don't want risk in Eve. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. I know you want your cake and to eat it too but it just doesnt work that way when everyone's interests are involved. So where exactly do you consider the interests of the gankers? Or does "everyone" only include hisec carebears? I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:18:11 - [804] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Do you have an issue with almost all freighter gank victims being 5b+? You must just be looking at the top 7 on zkill only.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:19:02 - [805] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: So where exactly do you consider the interests of the gankers? Or does "everyone" only include hisec carebears? Repair your security status and you can gank for the next ten years...
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 372	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:22:31 - [806] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: Do you have an issue with almost all freighter gank victims being 5b+? You must just be looking at the top 7 on zkill only. No. Excluding Burn Jita, primary gank targets are 5b+. Exceptions are made at times of course. HTFU
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:38:20 - [807] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: No. Excluding Burn Jita, primary gank targets are 5b+. Exceptions are made at times of course. https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/ https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ Here are twitch videos for Kusion if you dont want to browse zkill: https://www.twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all Nothing to do with burn Jita. This thread has cleared that up many times.
Quinn Hatfield The Scope Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2017.02.27 23:57:31 - [808] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: No. Excluding Burn Jita, primary gank targets are 5b+. Exceptions are made at times of course. https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/ https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ Here are twitch videos for Kusion if you dont want to browse zkill: https://www.twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all Nothing to do with burn Jita. This thread has cleared that up many times. Repeating yourself and dismissing the opinion of others clears up only one thing. You're an idiot with an ego. I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:03:00 - [809] - Quote Quinn Hatfield wrote: Repeating yourself and dismissing the opinion of others clears up only one thing. You're an idiot. Did you have something meaningful to contribute... because I didnt see it in your post. o/
Tengu Grib The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem 1562	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:03:01 - [810] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So where exactly do you consider the interests of the gankers? Or does "everyone" only include hisec carebears? Repair your security status and you can gank for the next ten years... What? That doesn't even make any sense. How would repairing your sec status allow you to gank for ten years? Ganking kills your sec status REALLY fast. Even faster if you pod, and really, who doesn't love podding to destroy those juicy implants? Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Tengu Grib The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem 1562	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:04:23 - [811] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Tengu Grib wrote: Says he isn't against ganking, immediately proposes idea to make career ganking impossible. Just admit you're risk averse and don't want risk in Eve. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. I know you want your cake and to eat it too but it just doesnt work that way when everyone's interests are involved. You're right, everyones interests are involved, include the interests of the gankers. Prevent death by ganking really isn't that hard. I've never lost a freighter (period, not just to ganking) and I've been flying freighters for about 5 years now. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:05:27 - [812] - Quote Tengu Grib wrote: What? That doesn't even make any sense. How would repairing your sec status allow you to gank for ten years? Ganking kills your sec status REALLY fast. Even faster if you pod, and really, who doesn't love podding to destroy those juicy implants? You make plenty of isk.... purchase tags and go do some mission running. Eve is not meant to be easy.
Quinn Hatfield The Scope Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:31:30 - [813] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Quinn Hatfield wrote: Repeating yourself and dismissing the opinion of others clears up only one thing. You're an idiot. Did you have something meaningful to contribute... because I didnt see it in your post. o/ I haven't seen any meaningful contributions from you either, so my post is entirely appropriate for this thread. As others have observed, your idea is indicative of you not having a clue what you're talking about. You've dismissed their opinions as irrelevant or off topic despite the contrary being true and told them that they are wrong when they have been proven to be correct. You've also provided little or no evidence that there is a problem to be solved compounded by your refusal to do any analysis in order to support the claims that you're making. That you keep telling people to read the OP when they dispute your bullshit is a sure sign that you've got nothing to back up your claims outside of what you perceive to be true. There's several words for people like yourself, the most appropriate begins with the letter N and ends with the letter T. I'll let you figure out what it is. If I was you I'd curtail my ego and reread the posts of your detractors, you might learn something about the game and how it actually works, as opposed to how you think it works. Toodles. I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 373	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:44:53 - [814] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: No. Excluding Burn Jita, primary gank targets are 5b+. Exceptions are made at times of course. https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/ https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ Here are twitch videos for Kusion if you dont want to browse zkill: https://www.twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all Nothing to do with burn Jita. This thread has cleared that up many times. Thats very selective data. Go through the kills for miniluv in the last year and you will see youre wrong. Miniluv makes up for the obvious majority of highsec freighter ganks. Probably best to use data from them? HTFU
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.28 00:55:57 - [815] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Thats very selective data. Go through the kills for miniluv in the last year and you will see youre wrong. Miniluv makes up for the obvious majority of highsec freighter ganks. Probably best to use data from them? Please share it and we can compare!
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 373	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:00:03 - [816] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: Thats very selective data. Go through the kills for miniluv in the last year and you will see youre wrong. Miniluv makes up for the obvious majority of highsec freighter ganks. Probably best to use data from them? Please share it and we can compare! What if the data proves youre wrong? What then? HTFU
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 39	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:06:20 - [817] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: What if the data proves youre wrong? What then? One thing at a time...
Faylee Freir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 373	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:11:11 - [818] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: What if the data proves youre wrong? What then? One thing at a time... lol HTFU
Tengu Grib The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem 1562	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:18:31 - [819] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Tengu Grib wrote: What? That doesn't even make any sense. How would repairing your sec status allow you to gank for ten years? Ganking kills your sec status REALLY fast. Even faster if you pod, and really, who doesn't love podding to destroy those juicy implants? You make plenty of isk.... purchase tags and go do some mission running. Eve is not meant to be easy. Also dont pod and you can gank more without having to repair. Your understanding of sec status and repairing it is hysterical. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem 1562	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:20:44 - [820] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Faylee Freir wrote: Thats very selective data. Go through the kills for miniluv in the last year and you will see youre wrong. Miniluv makes up for the obvious majority of highsec freighter ganks. Probably best to use data from them? Please share it and we can compare! You mean the data that is readily available to the public? Do your own research, as clearly you have done next to none so far. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1133	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:30:24 - [821] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected. Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. To implement this i propose two changes: First: CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's (edit: Faction Police) abilities. CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated. Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in: 1.0 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-4.0 and lower) 0.9 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-5.0 and lower) 0.8 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-6.0 and lower) 0.7 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-7.0 and lower) 0.6 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-8.0 and lower) 0.5 system - CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) phase 2 (-9.0 and lower) 0.4 system and lower - not applicable Second: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal. This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective. CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Is there any other negative beside not being able to gank on alpha drone with thingy that can't be set to red? I like the idea but not sure of Cocord involvement as they are now ie materialize kill all with super weapons without breaking a sweat. Edit isnt there crime watch or bounty thingy that both suck and this could be the way that those systems are adjusted so they stop being bad while allowing ppl to hunt slash shoot baddies. "You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 40	Posted - 2017.02.28 10:00:42 - [822] - Quote @Erich Einstein You are trying to "hit" guys with a good arguments, but they are made from empty brick... I feel sorry for your tryings as I take your ideas as mine own; Actual ganking system is outdated and with changes what CCP did already it's broken... So far all known updates are to make ganking easier: - Security status can be fixed with tags; - U can make Alpha account; - U just need to wait 15 minutes for another Gankl - Concord respond even in 0.9 system is SLOW as ****...
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 12:50:41 - [823] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Erich Einstein You are trying to "hit" guys with a good arguments, but they are made from empty brick... I feel sorry for your tryings as I take your ideas as mine own; Actual ganking system is outdated and with changes what CCP did already it's broken... So far all known updates are to make ganking easier: - Security status can be fixed with tags; - U can make Alpha account; - U just need to wait 15 minutes for another Gankl - Concord respond even in 0.9 system is SLOW as ****... We should undo all of the ganking nerfs to show you what it used to be like.
Nisanthro Celestial Tranquility Catastrophic Experiment 3	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:07:34 - [824] - Quote TL;DR: Erich Einstein: Outlaws should be benned from high sec! NightmareX: Yes! Because real life! everyone else: When do the two realize they are probably wrong, now matter how much they want to be right? I mean, there are two of them (and one random puppet with poor spelling skills) against EVERYONE ELSE. Is their ego so big they must be right even though proven otherwise over and over? Everyone else are the idiots?
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 41	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:23:50 - [825] - Quote Nisanthro wrote: TL;DR: Erich Einstein: Outlaws should be benned from high sec! NightmareX: Yes! Because real life! everyone else: When do the two realize they are probably wrong, now matter how much they want to be right? I mean, there are two of them (and one random puppet with poor spelling skills) against EVERYONE ELSE. Is their ego so big they must be right even though proven otherwise over and over? Everyone else are the idiots? Here it comes! Another guy who speaks for others; Btw there is a typo in your replay; np. cheers
Althalus Stenory Flying Blacksmiths 110	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:34:42 - [826] - Quote inb4 Concord Minority Report ... :D EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 734	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:45:01 - [827] - Quote Nisanthro wrote: TL;DR: Erich Einstein: Outlaws should be benned from high sec! NightmareX: Yes! Because real life! everyone else: When do the two realize they are probably wrong, now matter how much they want to be right? I mean, there are two of them (and one random puppet with poor spelling skills) against EVERYONE ELSE. Is their ego so big they must be right even though proven otherwise over and over? Everyone else are the idiots? Not sure where you get your idea from that we want outlaws banned from high sec from. If you actually had been bothered to read what we are saying, we want a system that makes it harder (yes, not impossible as you dudes are saying) to do more ganks the more you do it. Yes, that's all we want. And ofc, the security status should be a big factor if you can enter high sec in a ship bigger than a pod / Shuttle or not. If you do crimes, you have to take responsibility for your actions and do something about it to fix that if you want to come back into high sec in ships. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:57:11 - [828] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Not sure where you get your idea from that we want outlaws banned from high sec from. The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 735	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:02:07 - [829] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Not sure where you get your idea from that we want outlaws banned from high sec from. The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does. It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? Are a harsher police preventing you from entering high sec in a ship? Again, my idea will only make the police harder against the criminals THE MORE THEY DO CRIMES. Yes i had to write that in caps to you so you might get the point. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:17:05 - [830] - Quote NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how.

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 41	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:20:05 - [831] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how. There is "while"
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:23:57 - [832] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how. There is "while" still webbed and scramed. Instant web and scram is not something you can avoid because its, you know, instant. Plus gate guns do not need to warp in, they are already there and blapping.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:32:52 - [833] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how. Dependent on how much crimes you have done before and what your sec status is before you jump into that high sec system. Again, if you want to have it more easy in high sec, then limit your crimes and fix your sec status. All tools are available to do that. It's simple, you have to work for your crimes. Reshipping into a new ship and just sit lazy waiting 15 minutes is no work. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:35:28 - [834] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Dependent on how much crimes you have done before and what your sec status is before you jump into that high sec system. Again, if you want to have it more easy in high sec, then limit your crimes and fix your sec status. All tools are available to do that. Why do we need this further nerf to both ganking and people in lowsec?
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3787	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:36:16 - [835] - Quote Still don't know the difference between outlaws and criminals... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:37:09 - [836] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dependent on how much crimes you have done before and what your sec status is before you jump into that high sec system. Again, if you want to have it more easy in high sec, then limit your crimes and fix your sec status. All tools are available to do that. Why do we need this further nerf to both ganking and people in lowsec? Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 41	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:37:10 - [837] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how. There is "while" still webbed and scramed. Instant web and scram is not something you can avoid because its, you know, instant. Plus gate guns do not need to warp in, they are already there and blapping. Just go back burn to gate ;) as you always says to your preys =)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:39:13 - [838] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Just go back burn to gate ;) as you always says to your preys =) Webbed. Scammed. Locking people out of highsec is not good for the game.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18712	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:40:23 - [839] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:41:26 - [840] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:43:42 - [841] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Just go back burn to gate ;) as you always says to your preys =) Webbed. Scammed. Locking people out of highsec is not good for the game. Again, it all depends on your earlier crimes that day and it depends on your sec status. Again, work for your crimes. If you works for your crimes, you can always come back to high sec again way easier and do more crimes. But don't expect easy life in high sec if you do keep doing crimes and breaking the law there over and over. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 41	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:58:40 - [842] - Quote NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Just go back burn to gate ;) as you always says to your preys =) Webbed. Scammed. Locking people out of highsec is not good for the game. Again, it all depends on your earlier crimes that day and it depends on your sec status. Again, work for your crimes. If you works for your crimes, you can always come back to high sec again way easier and do more crimes. But don't expect easy life in high sec if you do keep doing crimes and breaking the law there over and over. You wont convince them - Gangers like the easy life they get in Eve;
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 366	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:34:56 - [843] - Quote NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Making something harder for the same reward is a nerf. You have yet to prove that ganking needs (another) nerf. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:45:17 - [844] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Making something harder for the same reward is a nerf. You have yet to prove that ganking needs (another) nerf. It doesn't. It just means that you have to work harder to be able to do your ganks. Working harder for your crimes is not a nerf, but a balance. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18713	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:49:19 - [845] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats a nerf. Again, why is this required?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:53:41 - [846] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats a nerf. Again, why is this required? Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status? Faction police only goes after you if your sec status is bad enough. So like i have said, fix your goddamn sec status (yeah work for your crimes) if you want to avoid that. Making you work for your crimes is not a nerf for ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 17:13:17 - [847] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does. Stop Trolling.... The OP clearly states that you manage your security status properly and you can do whatever you want in highsec. I know you dont like hearing that someone wants to take your free lunch away but an infinite isk grab is bad for the game.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18714	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:44:51 - [848] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status?. Because it locks out people who gank and pvp in low sec. Why do they need this nerf?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18714	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:46:58 - [849] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does. Stop Trolling.... The OP clearly states that you manage your security status properly and you can do whatever you want in highsec. I know you dont like hearing that someone wants to take your free lunch away but an infinite isk grab is bad for the game. What free lunch? Literally anyone can shoot at a -10 in highsec plus they have faction navies and gate guns attack. Why do we need this further draconian nerf?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:58:27 - [850] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status?. Because it locks out people who gank and pvp in low sec. Why do they need this nerf? Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5316	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:02:11 - [851] - Quote I left this thread twenty pages ago and you're still screaming that fighting in lowsec means you should not be allowed into highsec? And you're still completely incapable of saying how that would be good for the game in any way, shape or form? Wow.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18714	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:08:16 - [852] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. You have yet to tell us why this nerf is needed.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:11:16 - [853] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Literally anyone can shoot at a -10 in highsec plus they have faction navies and gate guns attack. Why do we need this further draconian nerf? Do these things ever prevent -10.0 status criminals (and most specifically gankers) from ganking in HighSec? The answer is no. Gankers trail faction police until they warp ontop of their target, target is dead, and then gate guns, Concord, and Faction Police wreck (but who really cares at this point because the gank is done and the target wrecked).
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:13:27 - [854] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: I left this thread twenty pages ago and you're still screaming that fighting in lowsec means you should not be allowed into highsec? And you're still completely incapable of saying how that would be good for the game in any way, shape or form? Wow. Read the posts and maybe you will figure it out. Just coming into a thread and basing your question on nothing is meningless. Pick a previous post and quote what doesnt make sense to you and I will be glad to explain it.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5316	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:17:05 - [855] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Read the posts and maybe you will figure it out. Just coming into a thread and basing your question on nothing is meningless. Pick a previous post and quote what doesnt make sense to you and I will be glad to explain it. Literally the post before mine. NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status?. Because it locks out people who gank and pvp in low sec. Why do they need this nerf? Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. Nobody has ever explained why it is a good idea to lock me out of highsec because I am pathologically incapable of not shooting the pod in lowsec.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:19:24 - [856] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. You have yet to tell us why this nerf is needed. A balance is not a nerf. Not only that, but everything that is done in low sec and 0.0 space wont be affected. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:20:40 - [857] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Nobody has ever explained why it is a good idea to lock me out of highsec because I am pathologically incapable of not shooting the pod in lowsec. Again, how do you get locked out of high sec for facing harder penalties the more crimes you do 'IN HIGH-SEC'? Having a harder penalty is not locking anyone out. Just sayin. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:26:32 - [858] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Nobody has ever explained why it is a good idea to lock me out of highsec because I am pathologically incapable of not shooting the pod in lowsec. The fact the you keep using the the word 'locked out' just makes it look like you cant read or refuse to acknowledge the OP and are just trolling. I know you dont want to have to fix a security status to stay out of what the OP describes as phase two aggression against criminals but if the game says you are a criminal for podding in lowsec, then you are a criminal. CCP always has the option of changing the hit lowsec pirates take for podding to go along with the proposed OP. CCP has nullsec for a reason, which does not damage your security status. Currently, if you want to be a pirate, do it in nullsec. If you want to be a lowsec pirate, be prepared to have to do some security status fixing if you want to enter highsec in anything more than a pod or shuttle that is instant warping. This is what the OP is proposing.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5316	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:33:00 - [859] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Nobody has ever explained why it is a good idea to lock me out of highsec because I am pathologically incapable of not shooting the pod in lowsec. The fact the you keep using the the word 'locked out' just makes it look like you cant read or refuse to acknowledge the OP and are just trolling. I know you dont want to have to fix a security status to stay out of what the OP describes as phase two aggression against criminals but if the game says you are a criminal for podding in lowsec, then you are a criminal. CCP always has the option of changing the hit lowsec pirates take for podding to go along with the proposed OP. CCP has nullsec for a reason, which does not damage your security status. Currently, if you want to be a pirate, do it in nullsec. If you want to be a lowsec pirate, be prepared to have to do some security status fixing if you want to enter highsec in anything more than a pod or shuttle that is instant warping. This is what the OP is proposing. And at no point has anyone even attempted to explain WHY that would be a good thing. Are you intending to, at any point, or are you just going to continue to talk like a politician? Please explain how instantly webbing and scramming me on jumping in to highsec does not lock me out of highsec. I was involved in a fleet battle in lowsec Sunday night. No piracy involved, yet if I had been positive sec status going into it I could very easily have come out negative even if I did for some strange reason avoid shooting the pods. As it was I merely dropped to -8.84. At no point was anyone who did not expect to explode involved in this fight, yet you think it would be enough of a reason to lock someone out of highsec. Why is this?
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 366	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:35:18 - [860] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Making something harder for the same reward is a nerf. You have yet to prove that ganking needs (another) nerf. It doesn't. It just means that you have to work harder to be able to do your ganks. Working harder for continuing doing your crimes is not a nerf, but a balance. You can still do 5-6 ganks a day like you probably would do in a day anyways with this. The only difference is that you have to work harder the more you do ganks / crimes. Working harder for doing crimes against the law abiding players is not a nerf, but logic and balance towards the players who are ganked that now can feel better for seeing that the criminals gets harder and harder consequences for their actions. EDIT. I'm on Discord in one channel there where this was said: XXXXXXXXXX - Today at 5:04 PM Guess your right. Ganking should be harder. Now what do these guys have to do to repair the new standings to be able to gank the next day? Or was this already said and I just need to scroll back up? [MC] NightmareX - Today at 5:05 PM Well, their criminal status will always be reset after each downtime. So if your sec status is still fine after that, then you will be back to normal stats like everyone is before committing any crimes . It will be day based. It doesn't matter if you do 5-6 ganks (ofc if you are good enough to do those last 2 ganks before the police will bust you as they will be harder to avoid the more you have ganked) 2 hours before downtime or if you do them spread out over the day. The criminal status will always be reset at downtime independent of how you have done the crimes through the days. And i do think that this makes sense and it's fair both towards the criminals being treated like criminals and towards those who gets ganked that now knows that the gankers will get harsher consequences the more crimes they do. So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:37:45 - [861] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: And at no point has anyone even attempted to explain WHY that would be a good thing. Are you intending to, at any point, or are you just going to continue to talk like a politician? Why is this? I placed an edit in the OP that addresses the concerns of lowsec pirates and how much of a security status hit they take for podding.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:39:50 - [862] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Please explain how instantly webbing and scramming me on jumping in to highsec does not lock me out of highsec. This would only ever happen if you refused to manage your security status properly. I did edit the OP to address your lowsec concerns though.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:45:25 - [863] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Zkill and you will see that gankers are due for a paycut: 5 trillion wrecked vs 12 billion lost. Kusion is at: 10 trillion wrecked vs 31 billion lost. These figures are slightly rounded and I have provided these links in previous comments.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 367	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:47:21 - [864] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does. Stop Trolling.... The OP clearly states that you manage your security status properly and you can do whatever you want in highsec. I know you dont like hearing that someone wants to take your free lunch away but an infinite isk grab is bad for the game. The entire point of being an outlaw is that you don't follow the laws. In turn, you forfeit CONCORD protection and are pursued by the faction police. Being effectively locked out by gates that instantly scram and web you while the faction police warps in to finish you off is stupid. You want justice, go get it yourself. Find some ganker staging system, probe down their instaundock, and drop some instalockers or smartbombing battleships there and get some justice against the "invincible" gankers. Ganking isn't free ISK either. It merely capitalizes on the extreme risk that someone takes when they fit triple cargo expanders and fills their hold with PLEX while autopiloting through Uedama. If everyone got a clue and stopped doing dumb things with freighters, gankers would probably find themselves harder up for cash. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5316	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:49:06 - [865] - Quote It isn't just podding though. you take a sec status hit just for shooting a guy in lowsec. Go fight over a lowsec moon and you could very easily find yourself unable to enter highsec, possibly even trapped in one of those silly little lowsec pockets (Kubinen in The Citadel, or Sarline in solitude, for example. Both in three system lowsec pockets only accessible through highsec) And nowhere have you said WHY this is good. Nor have you explained why there should be a pve requirement to get your sec status up high enough to actually be able to move around after you go pvp in a manner that you, personally, disapprove of.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:53:22 - [866] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: The entire point of being an outlaw is that you don't follow the laws. In turn, you forfeit CONCORD protection and are pursued by the faction police. Being effectively locked out by gates that instantly scram and web you while the faction police warps in to finish you off is stupid. You want justice, go get it yourself. Find some ganker staging system, probe down their instaundock, and drop some instalockers or smartbombing battleships there and get some justice against the "invincible" gankers. Ganking isn't free ISK either. It merely capitalizes on the extreme risk that someone takes when they fit triple cargo expanders and fills their hold with PLEX while autopiloting through Uedama. If everyone got a clue and stopped doing dumb things with freighters, gankers would probably find themselves harder up for cash. Im just playing by the mechanics of EVE ... Highsec means keep the damn criminals from taking over. Thats why they live in lowsec as criminals. You shouldnt just get to stroll up into highsec whenever you need something (Especially with player owned citadels now) because its convinent for your agenda. If you happen to have a reason for frequently needing to visit highsec, then the solution is simle and stated in the OP. Say your sorry (tags and mission running) so that you stay out of phase two aggression and then you can come into highsec all day long exactly similar to how it works now. I know you dont like that the OP proposes that you cant tote that -10.0 status in lowsec and then bring it into highsec but thats what the OP proposes.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 369	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:00:44 - [867] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: The entire point of being an outlaw is that you don't follow the laws. In turn, you forfeit CONCORD protection and are pursued by the faction police. Being effectively locked out by gates that instantly scram and web you while the faction police warps in to finish you off is stupid. You want justice, go get it yourself. Find some ganker staging system, probe down their instaundock, and drop some instalockers or smartbombing battleships there and get some justice against the "invincible" gankers. Ganking isn't free ISK either. It merely capitalizes on the extreme risk that someone takes when they fit triple cargo expanders and fills their hold with PLEX while autopiloting through Uedama. If everyone got a clue and stopped doing dumb things with freighters, gankers would probably find themselves harder up for cash. Im just playing by the mechanics of EVE ... Highsec means keep the damn criminals from taking over. Thats why they live in lowsec as criminals. You shouldnt just get to stroll up into highsec whenever you need something (Especially with player owned citadels now) because its convinent for your agenda. If you happen to have a reason for frequently needing to visit highsec, then the solution is simle and stated in the OP. Say your sorry (tags and mission running) so that you stay out of phase two aggression and then you can come into highsec all day long exactly similar to how it works now. I know you dont like that the OP proposes that you cant tote that -10.0 status in lowsec and then bring it into highsec but thats what the OP proposes. And what's the actual reason for this beyond "waaah criminals?" Besides, no one is 'strolling,' they can basically warp around and that's it, since if they stop for very long they'll be attacked by a player or the FacPo. I don't like what the OP proposes because it's monumentally stupid and seems calculated to bleed every last drop of risk from highsec. Also, your numbers re: Jason Kusion are incredibly dishonest. He seems to use around 11 stealth bombers, so his numbers are more like 352 bill lost. And every last ISK-cent he's destroyed (NOT looted, mind you) has come from people who were too dumb to not fly their expensive ship through Uedama, or use a scout, or use webs, etc. He simply capitalizes on their stupidity, and will take a pay cut the moment people wise up. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:03:49 - [868] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: It isn't just podding though. you take a sec status hit just for shooting a guy in lowsec. Go fight over a lowsec moon and you could very easily find yourself unable to enter highsec, possibly even trapped in one of those silly little lowsec pockets (Kubinen in The Citadel, or Sarline in solitude, for example. Both in three system lowsec pockets only accessible through highsec) And nowhere have you said WHY this is good. Nor have you explained why there should be a pve requirement to get your sec status up high enough to actually be able to move around after you go pvp in a manner that you, personally, disapprove of. Like I said... I sure CCP would address these issues and the hits lowsec pilots take to their security status if implementing a version of this OP. The issue is not with lowsec pirates, but out of control ganking teams in Jita who get to avoid any effort in repairing their criminal actions. Given that, lowsec pirates are still criminal so Im sure that something like this would still affect you to a certain extent. If you want to be a criminal... you just need to own it and be a badass.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 369	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:10:54 - [869] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: It isn't just podding though. you take a sec status hit just for shooting a guy in lowsec. Go fight over a lowsec moon and you could very easily find yourself unable to enter highsec, possibly even trapped in one of those silly little lowsec pockets (Kubinen in The Citadel, or Sarline in solitude, for example. Both in three system lowsec pockets only accessible through highsec) And nowhere have you said WHY this is good. Nor have you explained why there should be a pve requirement to get your sec status up high enough to actually be able to move around after you go pvp in a manner that you, personally, disapprove of. Like I said... I sure CCP would address these issues and the hits lowsec pilots take to their security status if implementing a version of this OP. The issue is not with lowsec pirates, but out of control ganking teams in Jita who get to avoid any effort in repairing their criminal actions. Given that, lowsec pirates are still criminal so Im sure that something like this would still affect you to a certain extent. If you want to be a criminal... you just need to own it and be a badass. Hard to be a "badass" when your idea causes me to die like a (female dog) the moment I jump into highsec. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Shadow Cartel 11572	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:12:00 - [870] - Quote Quote: Highsec means keep the damn criminals from taking over. Thats why they live in lowsec as criminals. No. No it doesn't. High-sec is simply a place where things are meant to be REALATIVELY safer than in low-sec... which is RELATIVELY safe than 0.0 space. And to make thing RELATIVELY safer in high-sec, a cost is exacted for aggression: either you pay CONCORD for a war declaration or you pay with your ship in the form of a gank. At NO POINT does the game protect you. That job falls squarely on the shoulders on the player. But all that is moot point. You argument hinges on the belief that regardless of whatever amount of time, effort, and resources go into setting up a gank... it costs too little. Unfortunately for you.... all of that is relevant and cannot be dismissed. Otherwise, you are dismissing pretty much anything and everything a logistical wing does for an player alliance and saying that the only thing that matters are the battles themselves. Further... you dodged this really simple question: Why should a a gankee not have to put in the same amount of logistical time and effort into avoiding a gank as the gankers have to do to set up the possibility of a gank? No... morality and ethical (in-game or RL) arguments are not usable. Give a gameplay reasons why a lack of effort and diligence from one person should trump the efforts of many. How did you Veterans start?

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:14:47 - [871] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Ganking isn't free ISK either. It merely capitalizes on the extreme risk that someone takes when they fit triple cargo expanders and fills their hold with PLEX while autopiloting through Uedama. If everyone got a clue and stopped doing dumb things with freighters, gankers would probably find themselves harder up for cash. Everyone is not going to get a clue. Eve has been out for how long? You think people would have a clue by now. I know you think auto-piloters are the only ones getting hit but my twitch videos show that I know how to fly in all security statuses. I was in a triple iStab faction fit providence and some random mach on a gate still had no problem bumping my freighter. I was running another character in a mach and still could not prevent from being bumped for 10min. Empty cargo too. Many try to claim that is the reason for this post but that was months ago ... Look at the dates on my videos and you will see that I have been raping code long before that freighter got popped. Anyone trying to say that only over-loaded auto-piloting freighters are the problem is sadly mistaken.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:22:33 - [872] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: High-sec is simply a place where things are meant to be REALATIVELY safer than in low-sec... which is RELATIVELY safe than 0.0 space. No... morality and ethical (in-game or RL) arguments are not usable. Give a gameplay reasons why a lack of effort and diligence from one person should trump the efforts of many. Please show me where any corp runs a day-in / day-out gank squad in low or null sec. I assure you that on an average day, those jita gankers are wrecking boat loads of more isk without resistance than all of lowsec faction warfare. Sure you can get a major cap battle from time to time that dumps a tons of isk in lowsec but its not frequent enough to compare to all the freighter / Jump-Freighter losses. Highsec is getting absoutely raped by these gank teams... again Kusion alone 10 trillion vs 31bil ... KarmaFleet: 5 trillion vs 12billion ... check for yourself on zkill.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 392	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:22:44 - [873] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: The entire point of being an outlaw is that you don't follow the laws. In turn, you forfeit CONCORD protection and are pursued by the faction police. Being effectively locked out by gates that instantly scram and web you while the faction police warps in to finish you off is stupid. You want justice, go get it yourself. Find some ganker staging system, probe down their instaundock, and drop some instalockers or smartbombing battleships there and get some justice against the "invincible" gankers. Ganking isn't free ISK either. It merely capitalizes on the extreme risk that someone takes when they fit triple cargo expanders and fills their hold with PLEX while autopiloting through Uedama. If everyone got a clue and stopped doing dumb things with freighters, gankers would probably find themselves harder up for cash. Im just playing by the mechanics of EVE ... Highsec means keep the damn criminals from taking over. Thats why they live in lowsec as criminals. Then you should not be able to leave highsec without being a criminal either as you don't have any reason to go there, as only criminals live in low or null. I'm just working from your interpretation of the mechanics by the way. That would only be balanced and fair. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:27:53 - [874] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Then you should not be able to leave highsec without being a criminal either as you don't have any reason to go there, as only criminals live in low or null. I'm just working from your interpretation of the mechanics by the way. That would only be balanced and fair. We have already discussed this in previous posts but you just love hanging on to this idea for some reason. Criminals lose their privledges, not law-abiding pilots. Plus, I highly doubt CCP wants to keep more people from moving into low and null sec. If anything they want more people to operate in those security spaces. Fortunately, the OP pushes people who want to protect their security status to nullsec so that they wouldnt have to do any repairing of their security status to come back into highsec.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 393	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:50:18 - [875] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Then you should not be able to leave highsec without being a criminal either as you don't have any reason to go there, as only criminals live in low or null. I'm just working from your interpretation of the mechanics by the way. That would only be balanced and fair. We have already discussed this in previous posts but you just love hanging on to this idea for some reason. Criminals lose their privledges, not law-abiding pilots. Plus, I highly doubt CCP wants to keep more people from moving into low and null sec. If anything they want more people to operate in those security spaces. Fortunately, the OP pushes people who want to protect their security status to nullsec so that they wouldnt have to do any repairing of their security status to come back into highsec. I love hanging on to it as you somehow keep suggesting that there needs to be a limitation on who can access what kind of space. You are the one that suggested that "only criminals live in lowsec" and simply by using your interpredation of the rules, only criminals should be allowed into lowsec. See how stupid it is? If you limit some people from accessing certain types of space, the same rules need to apply the other way as well. You shouldn't have the right to reap the rewards of lowsec if you aren't willing to go criminal. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 45	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:53:46 - [876] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: You are the one that suggested that "only criminals live in lowsec" and simply by using your interpredation of the rules, only criminals should be allowed into lowsec. See how stupid it is? If you limit some people from accessing certain types of space, the same rules need to apply the other way as well. You shouldn't have the right to reap the rewards of lowsec if you aren't willing to go criminal. If you would like to generate a separate forum post to address your issue of keeping non-criminals out of low and null sec than by all means do so. This does not change what is proposed in the OP. The "only criminals..." comment should be considered a stereotype to describe the majority.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 370	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:01:05 - [877] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: You are the one that suggested that "only criminals live in lowsec" and simply by using your interpredation of the rules, only criminals should be allowed into lowsec. See how stupid it is? If you limit some people from accessing certain types of space, the same rules need to apply the other way as well. You shouldn't have the right to reap the rewards of lowsec if you aren't willing to go criminal. If you would like to generate a separate forum post to address your issue of keeping non-criminals out of low and null sec than by all means do so. This does not change what is proposed in the OP. The "only criminals..." comment should be considered a stereotype to describe the majority. The point is that what you propose is stupid, and he's using an example that runs on similar logic to highlight its absurdity. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:01:55 - [878] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 370	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:04:40 - [879] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:10:21 - [880] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. Ehh, it seem to me that you have absolutely no clues what so ever what you are talking about. You barely lose sec status for ganking ships. It's the podding that hurts. You can gank many times before you will go towards the outlaw status. Then it might be an idea to maybe fix that as long as you want to avoid getting problems with the faction police. Also, you can buy security tags that fixes you sec status fast. So you have 2 options. 1. Buy tags and get out of the sec status dilemma easily but the expensive way, or npc it back the hard but cheap way. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 46	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:13:31 - [881] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: You are the one that suggested that "only criminals live in lowsec" and simply by using your interpredation of the rules, only criminals should be allowed into lowsec. See how stupid it is? If you limit some people from accessing certain types of space, the same rules need to apply the other way as well. You shouldn't have the right to reap the rewards of lowsec if you aren't willing to go criminal. If you would like to generate a separate forum post to address your issue of keeping non-criminals out of low and null sec than by all means do so. This does not change what is proposed in the OP. The "only criminals..." comment should be considered a stereotype to describe the majority. The point is that what you propose is stupid, and he's using an example that runs on similar logic to highlight its absurdity. I dont expect everyone to agree. People have their own agendas. Try to keep things constructive instead of just throwing out generalized negative comments.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:15:22 - [882] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I dont expect everyone to agree. People have their own agendas. Try to keep things constructive instead of just throwing out generalized negative comments. He didn't even had any valid arguments on why it's stupid according to him either. The only thing i have seen as argument from one of them is that it gets harder to do gank. Yeah, but i mean, you have to work for everything in EVE, so why shouldn't criminals works for what they do, lol? Not only that, but ANY criminals in high sec should work harder than any law abiding players in high sec, because they are breaking the rules of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 46	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:19:56 - [883] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. Use some of that dank isk you make from ganking to buy tags instead of mission running. If you are ganking in a way that is not profitable to you, then buy plex. You can also enjoy plenty of the other PVP experiences in EVE such as lowsec faction warfare, pirating in lowsec, etc until you can afford to buy more tags and come back to highsec and gank some more.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18715	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:42:48 - [884] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: out of control ganking teams in Jita What out of control ganking teams?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 46	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:52:42 - [885] - Quote baltec1 wrote: What out of control ganking teams? KarmaFleet Gimme Da Loot Kusion - moved from Uedama recently. Not sure if its permanent but he runs out of here a lot now. etc See their zkillboard isk destroyed vs isk lost. Im only taking into account those near Jita. Not sure of any major operations near Amarr or elsewhere. Jita V - Moon 17 station - Feel free to jump in-game and follow them around for a day. I want to note that many have mistaken this as a temporary burn jita event but zkill will quickly show that is false.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 46	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:55:09 - [886] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Why don't you just shoot them rather than beg CCP to destroy an entire playstyle? CCP could always increase the drop-rate of tags to something that they find fair. Market control of these tags is an intended dynamic though about by the OP.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18715	Posted - 2017.02.28 23:00:34 - [887] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: What out of control ganking teams? KarmaFleet Gimme Da Loot Kusion - moved from Uedama recently. Not sure if its permanent but he runs out of here a lot now. etc See their zkillboard isk destroyed vs isk lost. Im only taking into account those near Jita. Not sure of any major operations near Amarr or elsewhere. Jita V - Moon 17 station - Feel free to jump in-game and follow them around for a day. I want to note that many have mistaken this as a temporary burn jita event but zkill will quickly show that is false. So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.02.28 23:13:18 - [888] - Quote baltec1 wrote: So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history? Well I did give Kusion a really hard time in Uedama - twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all/. I took like 95% (check zkill) of all his isk in a three day period and then he took a few months off after that. These gankers also seem to be coming together in Jita V - Moon 17 and working as a large fleet to focusing exclusively on freighters. You can still see poddington and others going after miners occasionally but there is a good amount of them sitting idle in station when to many of them are online. (No need to lose any more ships than you have too.) I wish I had a concrete answer for you but Kusion taking a few months off will definitely lower that statistic.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18715	Posted - 2017.02.28 23:28:40 - [889] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history? Well I did give Kusion a really hard time in Uedama - twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all/. I took like 95% (check zkill) of all his isk in a three day period and then he took a few months off after that. These gankers also seem to be coming together in Jita V - Moon 17 and working as a large fleet to focusing exclusively on freighters. You can still see poddington and others going after miners occasionally but there is a good amount of them sitting idle in station when to many of them are online. (No need to lose any more ships than you have too.) I wish I had a concrete answer for you but Kusion taking a few months off will definitely lower that statistic. More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.02.28 23:38:45 - [890] - Quote baltec1 wrote: More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled. Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.

Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 393	Posted - 2017.02.28 23:43:23 - [891] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled. Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof. Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:00:11 - [892] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled. Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof. I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:02:06 - [893] - Quote Removed
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27890	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:03:33 - [894] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. Why not? The number of people that Concord kill has a direct relationship with how much suicide ganking is going on. They kill all of the active aggressors involved in a suicide gank, and those kills are recorded. The suicide ganking figures are probably lower than the graph suggests, a percentage of the people that Concord kill are people making silly mistakes. Quote: We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Citation needed for alphas getting wiped out in herds. Quote: Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That is irrelevant to the graph supplied, and the claim that Baltec1 is making. If you want to add PCU numbers to it, the data is freely available via Eve-offline.net. Go for it. Quote: That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. It records a statistic over a time period, and that statistic has a relationship with suicide ganking. The fact that the 6 month rolling average is considerably lower than it was 4 years ago is a trend, a downwards one that demonstrates Concord are killing less people than they did 4 years ago, which suggests that there are less suicide ganks happening now than there were then. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3790	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:07:20 - [895] - Quote baltec1 wrote: So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history? That saves me some time lol. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:11:27 - [896] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. Why not? The number of people that Concord kill has a direct relationship with how much suicide ganking is going on. They kill all of the active aggressors involved in a suicide gank, and those kills are recorded. The suicide ganking figures are probably lower than the graph suggests, a percentage of the people that Concord kill are people making silly mistakes. Quote: We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Citation needed for alphas getting wiped out in herds. Quote: Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That is irrelevant to the graph supplied, and the claim that Baltec1 is making. If you want to add PCU numbers to it, the data is freely available via Eve-offline.net. Go for it. Quote: That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. It records a statistic over a time period, and that statistic has a relationship with suicide ganking. The fact that the 6 month rolling average is considerably lower than it was 4 years ago is a trend, a downwards one that demonstrates Concord are killing less people than they did 4 years ago, which suggests that there are less suicide ganks happening now than there were then. One thing that is obvious on the graph is Burn X events, massive spikes of Concord kills and a sizeable bump in the 6 month average. So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27890	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:16:54 - [897] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it. Please, do feel free to enlighten me. What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:33:34 - [898] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it. Please, do feel free to enlighten me. What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude. I'm not going to repeat myself and me explaining statistics to you don't not benefit the OP in any way.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27890	Posted - 2017.03.01 00:47:44 - [899] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it. Please, do feel free to enlighten me. What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude. I'm not going to repeat myself and me explaining statistics to you don't not benefit the OP in any way. So... you've got nothing then. What does that graph represent, in terms of data recorded? What do you think that the data points show? Is there a relationship between how many people Concord kill, how many people are actively participating in suicide ganking, and how much of it they are doing? If not, why not? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Quinn Hatfield The Scope Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2017.03.01 02:34:44 - [900] - Quote crickets I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Ajem Hinken Quaice Industries 35	Posted - 2017.03.01 03:05:28 - [901] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. Why not? The number of people that Concord kill has a direct relationship with how much suicide ganking is going on. They kill all of the active aggressors involved in a suicide gank, and those kills are recorded. The suicide ganking figures are probably lower than the graph suggests, a percentage of the people that Concord kill are people making silly mistakes. Quote: We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Citation needed for alphas getting wiped out in herds. Quote: Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That is irrelevant to the graph, it doesn't display that data, and Baltec1 isn't making any sort of claim about player numbers, he is saying that suicide ganking has been trending down for a while and that the 6 month rolling average of Concord kills has hit an historic low suggests that his claim is true. If you want to add PCU numbers to it, the data is freely available via Eve-offline.net. Go for it. Quote: That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. It records a statistic over a time period, and that statistic has a relationship with suicide ganking. The fact that the 6 month rolling average is considerably lower than it was 4 years ago is a trend, a downwards one that demonstrates Concord are killing less people than they did 4 years ago, which suggests that there are less suicide ganks happening now than there were then. One thing that is obvious on the graph is Burn X events, massive spikes of Concord kills and a sizeable bump in the 6 month average. I've afk'd in space in Jita in a Heron (no good tank) during a 'burn Jita' event. I got shot at. Wimpy Heron won with half shield. MVP Caldi gate guard.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 08:13:25 - [902] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What does that graph represent, in terms of data recorded? What do you think that the data plotted shows? Is there a relationship between how many people Concord kill, how many people are actively participating in suicide ganking, and how much of it they are doing? If not, why not? The graph is meaningless in understanding how ganking has been trending in EVE. There are a number of factors that go into making those numbers what they are. The simple fact that you dont understand that a decrease in players on the sever since 2013 would very-likely also cause a decrease in CONCORD kill numbers shows that you dont know how to analyze data properly. If server numbers and CONCORD kills decrease at the same rate over the years, it is actually very likely that ganking number are remaining constant or roughly the same. I have listened to other people's stances and updated the OP to take into consideration those who have made fair points. If you would like to contribute something meaningful that improves the OP then by all mean I am happy to discuss those things with you. What i'm not going to do is junk my thread by running off on a tangent that has no intention of constructively improving the OP. CCP's forum rules are clear in stating that threads should remain as clean and polished as possible.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18717	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:00:43 - [903] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What does that graph represent, in terms of data recorded? What do you think that the data plotted shows? Is there a relationship between how many people Concord kill, how many people are actively participating in suicide ganking, and how much of it they are doing? If not, why not? The graph is meaningless in understanding how ganking has been trending in EVE. There are a number of factors that go into making those numbers what they are. The simple fact that you dont understand that a decrease in players on the sever since 2013 would very-likely also cause a decrease in CONCORD kill numbers shows that you dont know how to analyze data properly. If server numbers and CONCORD kills decrease at the same rate over the years, it is actually very likely that ganking numbers are remaining constant or roughly the same. I have listened to other people's stances and updated the OP to take into consideration those who have made fair points. If you would like to contribute something meaningful that improves the OP then by all mean I am happy to discuss those things with you. What i'm not going to do is junk my thread by running off on a tangent that has no intention of constructively improving the OP. CCP's forum rules are clear in stating that threads should remain as clean and polished as possible. You still have not answered why this nerf is required. It cant be because ganking is out of control because clearly it is not, it is less than half of what it was 4 years ago while the populaltion has exploded.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:10:40 - [904] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. You have yet to tell us why this nerf is needed. WTF really? and where have you been from the last xxx of pages?
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:15:53 - [905] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: It isn't just podding though. you take a sec status hit just for shooting a guy in lowsec. Go fight over a lowsec moon and you could very easily find yourself unable to enter highsec, possibly even trapped in one of those silly little lowsec pockets (Kubinen in The Citadel, or Sarline in solitude, for example. Both in three system lowsec pockets only accessible through highsec) And nowhere have you said WHY this is good. Nor have you explained why there should be a pve requirement to get your sec status up high enough to actually be able to move around after you go pvp in a manner that you, personally, disapprove of. Like I said... I sure CCP would address these issues and the hits lowsec pilots take to their security status if implementing a version of this OP. The issue is not with lowsec pirates, but out of control ganking teams in Jita who get to avoid any effort in repairing their criminal actions. Given that, lowsec pirates are still criminal so Im sure that something like this would still affect you to a certain extent. If you want to be a criminal... you just need to own it and be a badass. Hard to be a "badass" when your idea causes me to die like a (female dog) the moment I jump into highsec. If you sec status is "bad" then yeah. you should die when trying (getting to high sec) - and don't mess with dogs u piece of crap!
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:20:21 - [906] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:23:22 - [907] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 47	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:27:00 - [908] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. And why you force them to change their behaviour? Because you wan't? You can? or what?
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 393	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:31:15 - [909] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. And why you force them to change their behaviour? Because you wan't? You can? or what? The irony of complaining how one group shouldn't have to change their behaviour while asking for other to do exactly that.... Wormholer for life.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18717	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:31:45 - [910] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: WTF really? and where have you been from the last xxx of pages? Trying to get an answer to my question.

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:32:19 - [911] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. And why you force them to change their behaviour? Because you wan't? You can? or what? No one is forced to do anything. It's their choice; and choices have consequences. If they want to take the extra risk and get ganked, like you ganked that badger in the past, then more fool them. Totally voluntary to expose themselves to that much risk.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 48	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:47:24 - [912] - Quote OK we already know that yours (as ganger) only argument against ideas in this thread are: "Cause we like it like it is" and "Pilots (which can't run away from a gang) are just an idiots if they fly with 10b of cargo" Well even a webber won' safe them but fck it! who cares about them? We still want to have a fun; Fck that "risk vs rewards" system; We still want a REWARD with no risk! (i still blame that freighter pilots as it theirs fualt. (ironic off); Damn... wood....wood is everywhere..
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18717	Posted - 2017.03.01 09:50:15 - [913] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: OK we already know that yours (as ganger) only argument against ideas in this thread are: "Cause we like it like it is" and "Pilots (which can't run away from a gang) are just an idiots if they fly with 10b of cargo" Well even a webber won' safe them but fck it! who cares about them? We still want to have a fun; Fck that "risk vs rewards" system; We still want a REWARD with no risk! (i still blame that freighter pilots as it theirs fualt. (ironic off); Damn... wood....wood is everywhere.. More a case of not wanting yet more content removed from the game for no reason.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.01 10:18:29 - [914] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: OK we already know that yours (as ganger) only argument against ideas in this thread are: "Cause we like it like it is" and "Pilots (which can't run away from a gang) are just an idiots if they fly with 10b of cargo" Well even a webber won' safe them but fck it! who cares about them? We still want to have a fun; Fck that "risk vs rewards" system; We still want a REWARD with no risk! (i still blame that freighter pilots as it theirs fualt. (ironic off); Damn... wood....wood is everywhere.. Mate, you're the ganker here, not me. I've never ganked anyone in the game, ever. I play in null and low for my pvp, but that's just my preference, not any better than anyone else's choice of where and how they want to pvp. They are all totally fine choices. I do however web my own industry/freighter alt through highsec and it provides near perfect safety. The mechanics are fine. It just takes a bit of personal responsibility.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27898	Posted - 2017.03.01 10:24:32 - [915] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What does that graph represent, in terms of data recorded? What do you think that the data plotted shows? Is there a relationship between how many people Concord kill, how many people are actively participating in suicide ganking, and how much of it they are doing? If not, why not? The graph is meaningless in understanding how ganking has been trending in EVE. There are a number of factors that go into making those numbers what they are. The simple fact that you dont understand that a decrease in players on the sever since 2013 would very-likely also cause a decrease in CONCORD kill numbers shows that you dont know how to analyze data properly. If server numbers and CONCORD kills decrease at the same rate over the years, it is actually very likely that ganking numbers are remaining constant or roughly the same. I have listened to other people's stances and updated the OP to take into consideration those who have made fair points. If you would like to contribute something meaningful that improves the OP then by all mean I am happy to discuss those things with you. What i'm not going to do is junk my thread by running off on a tangent that has no intention of constructively improving the OP. CCP's forum rules are clear in stating that threads should remain as clean and polished as possible. As I said, you've got nothing. You're good at evading the question, have you considered a life in politics? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 48	Posted - 2017.03.01 12:32:46 - [916] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: OK we already know that yours (as ganger) only argument against ideas in this thread are: "Cause we like it like it is" and "Pilots (which can't run away from a gang) are just an idiots if they fly with 10b of cargo" Well even a webber won' safe them but fck it! who cares about them? We still want to have a fun; Fck that "risk vs rewards" system; We still want a REWARD with no risk! (i still blame that freighter pilots as it theirs fualt. (ironic off); Damn... wood....wood is everywhere.. More a case of not wanting yet more content removed from the game for no reason. No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons;
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 48	Posted - 2017.03.01 12:33:49 - [917] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: OK we already know that yours (as ganger) only argument against ideas in this thread are: "Cause we like it like it is" and "Pilots (which can't run away from a gang) are just an idiots if they fly with 10b of cargo" Well even a webber won' safe them but fck it! who cares about them? We still want to have a fun; Fck that "risk vs rewards" system; We still want a REWARD with no risk! (i still blame that freighter pilots as it theirs fualt. (ironic off); Damn... wood....wood is everywhere.. Mate, you're the ganker here, not me. I've never ganked anyone in the game, ever. I play in null and low for my pvp, but that's just my preference, not any better than anyone else's choice of where and how they want to pvp. They are all totally fine choices. I do however web my own industry/freighter alt through highsec and it provides near perfect safety. The mechanics are fine. It just takes a bit of personal responsibility. Hell no - I'm not a ganger; And im glad you are fine with your freighter - im too lazy to check if you have any connections with gang teams or not flying the gang pipe systems ;)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18717	Posted - 2017.03.01 13:35:33 - [918] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons; Which are?
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 48	Posted - 2017.03.01 13:44:51 - [919] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons; Which are? It won't be easy for you so go figure it out by yourself - page by page :)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18717	Posted - 2017.03.01 14:27:22 - [920] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons; Which are? It won't be easy for you so go figure it out by yourself - page by page :) So you don't have one.

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 51	Posted - 2017.03.01 14:53:15 - [921] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons; Which are? It won't be easy for you so go figure it out by yourself - page by page :) So you don't have one. You should get it more like "there is many and you are too lazy to check it out by yourself" So im not gonna make it a sweat for you;
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18718	Posted - 2017.03.01 15:06:08 - [922] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: You should get it more like "there is many and you are too lazy to check it out by yourself" So im not gonna make it a sweat for you; So far all you have done is insult everyone and post nothing of substance.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 372	Posted - 2017.03.01 15:07:01 - [923] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! They made a choice. They have to deal with the consequences. If they can't afford a 10b loss they shouldn't fly a 10b freighter. Also, please point out where I "mess with dogs." I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 15:17:02 - [924] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: WTF really? and where have you been from the last xxx of pages? Trying to get an answer to my question. I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance. You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than 'boohoo', it will be more work to gank the more you do it. Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18719	Posted - 2017.03.01 16:17:09 - [925] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance. No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf. NightmareX wrote: You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than saying 'boohoo, it will be more work to gank the more you do it'. 3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf. NightmareX wrote: Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do. They already do. We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:04:09 - [926] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. And why you force them to change their behaviour? Because you wan't? You can? or what? No one is forced to do anything. It's their choice; and choices have consequences. If they want to take the extra risk and get ganked, like you ganked that badger in the past, then more fool them. Totally voluntary to expose themselves to that much risk. Please read previous posts. You are just bringing things up that have already been brought up by others. If you have something that hasn't already been talked about, then by all means.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:05:11 - [927] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance. No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf. NightmareX wrote: You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than saying 'boohoo, it will be more work to gank the more you do it'. 3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf. NightmareX wrote: Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do. They already do. We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required. I'm going to start flagging your posts if you don't stop junking the thread.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:09:20 - [928] - Quote Please review the forum rules on properly quoting others. You need to remove unnecessary quote tags that make posts unnecessarily long. Forum rules prohibit it because it makes things harder to read and follow. Quote one point and leave all the other unnecessary content out.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:13:31 - [929] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf. Again, making criminals work harder for the crimes they do is not locking anyone out of high sec. Do you even know the difference from making things harder to completely make thing impossible, bro? Clearly not. baltec1 wrote: 3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf. No you haven't. All you have been doing is crying that my idea is going to lock criminals out of high sec, which it doesn't. Again, making things harder to do is not locking anyone out. But if you expect to get everything to be delivered to you on the basket so you don't have to lift a finger to make any effort what so ever to do your crimes, then sure, you might not like the idea of working for your crimes. baltec1 wrote: They already do. We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required. No they don't. If you think doing a gank / crime, complete the objective by suiciding a freighter, warp back to station and then jump into a new ship and then just wait 14-15 minutes is hard work, then let me ask, how lazy are you? That's barely making any effort at all for the massive profits you make doing that. Do you hate changes to the game that might make the game better? And lastly. I'm not gonna tell you why it's a nerf, because it's not a nerf, but a balance. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:16:06 - [930] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. THE OP.is not about how "targets" play, it's addressing the mechanics gankers are able to completely ignore.

Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 394	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:16:40 - [931] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Please review the forum rules on properly quoting others. You need to remove unnecessary quote tags that make posts unnecessarily long. Forum rules prohibit it because it makes things harder to read and follow. Quote one point and leave all the other unnecessary content out. Baltec is not breaking any rules. Using the flagging-system to weed out people whose opinion you don't like is not going to work. You made your thread, now you must face to fact that not everyone feels the same way as you and they are going to be vocal about that fact. We are still waiting for the proof of this magical explosion of ganking... Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:20:56 - [932] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Baltec is not breaking any rules. Using the flagging-system to weed out people whose opinion you don't like is not going to work. You made your thread, now you must face to fact that not everyone feels the same way as you and they are going to be vocal about that fact. We are still waiting for the proof of this magical explosion of ganking... Read the forum posts, he has been recycling the same point for pages now. It's making others repeats things over and over and does not constructively contribute to the OP. It's becoming a troll.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:26:47 - [933] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a ** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things without going into a death trap? Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Why make large trailers that carries a lot of products that might kill alot of products if it crashes when we have cars that might not destroy many products as you can only put few products back in the trunk of the car and do 10 runs instead of 1 with the trailer instead? That's basicly what you are saying that we rather should move tons of products with smaller cars over bigger trailers who can transport ALOT of products worth alot of money JUST because the products might get destroyed on it's route. Do you know how stupid that is? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:30:36 - [934] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We know player numbers have been low, nobody is saying otherwise. Drop the PCU numbers over the graph, show a correlation between the number of players online and the number of people being killed by Concord, support your claim rather than just evading the question. At the moment, you've got nothing. The graph was presented to me and I was asked for a reason the graph does what it do. I have already provided the reasons why it's not valid proof of ganking numbers. If you would like to prove that it is, then by all means. To me though, it has no meaning when trying to invalidate the OP.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 492	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:34:44 - [935] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a ** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things? No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity. Quote:** Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 65	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:46:20 - [936] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity. Quote: Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems. This is a known fact, but how does it relate to the OP suggestions that gankers need to be accountable for their actions as criminals instead of people being able to treat ganking as an infinite isk grab without hardly any resistance at all.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:19:31 - [937] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a ** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things? No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity. Quote: Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems. Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences. You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec. Do you understand it now? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 492	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:39:01 - [938] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences. You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec. Do you understand it now? Yes. Question: Why? Why do we need harsher punishments? The deterrents to ganking already puts people off doing it without a reason, so the system we have already enjoys some degree of success. Why should it be changed to make the profession even less attractive? Why should incompetent/lazy/greedy pilots have an even easier time in this game at the expense of pirates and more competent freighter pilots? This is a very important question that despite having lurked and posted in many, many "one more nerf" threads, I've never seen answered. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 492	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:44:20 - [939] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity. Quote: Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems. This is a known fact, but how does it relate to the OP suggestions that gankers need to be accountable for their actions as criminals instead of people being able to treat ganking as an infinite isk grab without hardly any resistance at all. 1) Criminals are already accountable for their actions in the form of ship loss, sec status loss, kill rights, permanently free-to-aggress by other capsuleers and chased by FacPo through HiSec space. These penalties have a massive impact on the way criminals are able to operate in HiSec. 2) Piracy is only as profitable as the greed of the victims it feeds upon. Given the above, why does HiSec criminality require harsher penalties? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:53:29 - [940] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences. You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec. Do you understand it now? Yes. Question: Why? Why do we need harsher punishments? The deterrents to ganking already puts people off doing it without a reason, so the system we have already enjoys some degree of success. Why should it be changed to make the profession even less attractive? Why should incompetent/lazy/greedy pilots have an even easier time in this game at the expense of pirates and more competent freighter pilots? This is a very important question that despite having lurked and posted in many, many "one more nerf" threads, I've never seen answered. Yes, you need harsher penalties, because the small penalties you get for the reward of ganking a freighter or any other expensive things you gank is insane. You barely have to make ANY effort at all to gain huge profits for doing ganking all day long. And it's way to easy to just doing it in the infinite loop without having anything to worry about except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's EVE. And the profession as a criminal / ganker will still be the same after this. All you have to do is make more effort and do more work to be able to continue your ganks / criminal acts. So if you work for your crimes, then you will still be able to gank as much as you do now. It's simple. And what is the point of high sec if it will be considered a guaranteed death trap (totally different from having a risk) to everyone the second someone with some value undocks from a station? Yes, everyone will risk (not the same as 100% death trap) something everytime someone undocks. That's how it has been and how it should be forever. But having a guaranteed death trap everytime you undock just because a freighter is being used as it's intended usage of transporting tons of things that might be worth alot, is not the same as taking a risk when you undock. Figure out the difference from taking a risk to see the instant death when you undock. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27899	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:56:33 - [941] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We know player numbers have been low, nobody is saying otherwise. Drop the PCU numbers over the graph, show a correlation between the number of players online and the number of people being killed by Concord, support your claim rather than just evading the question. At the moment, you've got nothing. The graph was presented to me and I was asked for a reason the graph does what it do. I have already provided the reasons why it's not valid proof of ganking numbers. If you would like to prove that it is, then by all means. To me though, it has no meaning when trying to invalidate the OP.If server numbers and CONCORD kills decrease at the same rate over the years, it is actually very likely that ganking numbers are remaining constant or roughly the same. You expect us accept this statement as the reason the graph in question is invalid without dispute? The 6 month rolling average plot shows an overall decline in Concord kills over a 4 year period, that Concord currently kill less people than they did 4 years ago is indisputable. The raw data plot shows periodic spikes in activity that is reflected in the 6 month average; the most likely cause of these spikes are events such as Burn Jita, a look at the dates of past events will probably confirm this to be the case. As you say what isn't shown is the number of active players, you then made the claim that a decline in the number of active players is the most likely reason for the decline in the numbers of people Concord kill. We've yet to see you provide anything that supports this. You typed it, where's your proof that this is the case? Or are we expected to swallow it as gospel and do nothing to stop you trying to get CCP to essentially remove an entire playstyle via mechanics? You, and your cohorts, have dismissed pretty much everything that everybody else has posted. You've provided no actual evidence or analysis, beyond pointing at a killboard and opinion, that there is actually a problem that needs to be solved. Saying the same things over and over again without presenting any actual supporting material, hoping that we'll accept it as the case is not evidence, it's prayer. If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to do better than that. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 372	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:59:38 - [942] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Baltec is not breaking any rules. Using the flagging-system to weed out people whose opinion you don't like is not going to work. You made your thread, now you must face to fact that not everyone feels the same way as you and they are going to be vocal about that fact. We are still waiting for the proof of this magical explosion of ganking... Read the forum posts, he has been recycling the same point for pages now. It's making others repeats things over and over and does not constructively contribute to the OP. It's becoming a troll. He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27899	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:07:22 - [943] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular reasoning, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:17:40 - [944] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular reasoning, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? Having an instant death trap is not what the risk you are talking about is. Because an instant death trap is not the same as taking a "risk". And do you have a good explanation on why criminals shouldn't get harsher penalties for doing criminal acts / breaking the law more and more in high sec when the criminals isn't being treated as criminals that way? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:23:17 - [945] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Yes, you need harsher penalties, because the small penalties you get for the reward of ganking a freighter or any other expensive things you gank is insane. You barely have to make ANY effort at all to gain huge profits for doing ganking all day long. And it's way to easy to just doing it in the infinite loop without having anything to worry about except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes and refit the same ship up again which take like 10 seconds? This is not a mechanical problem, this is a player generated problem. CCP cannot fix this, only the players can. There will always be a portion of the player base who get a little too greedy and attempt to overfill their ships in the hopes of getting bigger rewards for less work. The appropriate response to finding yourself on the wrong side of a profitable gank is to figure out how to make yourself less profitable to gank. If more players did this, HiSec ganking would become much, much more difficult. Quote: And the profession as a criminal / ganker will still be the same after this. All you have to do is make more effort and do more work to be able to continue your ganks / criminal acts. So if you work for your crimes, then you will still be able to gank as much as you do now. It's simple. Yes, I get it. You still haven't adequately stated why these changes would benefit the game. Quote: And what is the point of high sec if it will be considered a guaranteed death trap (totally different from having a risk) to everyone the second someone with some value undocks from a station? It's not. It's extremely difficult to kill someone that has taken the appropriate steps to protect their cargo. Yes, even cargoes that require a freighter are difficult to find, track and take out when the job is done properly. Quote: Figure out the difference from taking a risk to see the instant death when you undock. A competent freighter pilot enjoys somewhere in the region of 99.9% success rate, according to the stats released by Red Frog. A 0.1% chance of failing a contract is hardly guaranteed instant death when you undock. Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:31:42 - [946] - Quote NightmareX wrote: ]So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? You've utterly misunderstood the role freighters fill. Thus would explain the mistakes you've made in other posts. Freighters aren't intended to carry high value cargoes. They're intended to carry very large quantities of low value goods. Quote: And do you have a good explanation on why criminals shouldn't get harsher penalties for doing criminal acts / breaking the law more and more in high sec when the criminals isn't being treated as criminals that way? EVE revolves around player conflict. It creates opportunities for players to compete with, sabotage, cooperate and benefit from each other. By reducing opportunities for conflict, you reduce opportunities for players to simply enjoy interacting with each other, not just the pirates. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:39:43 - [947] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: This is not a mechanical problem, this is a player generated problem. CCP cannot fix this, only the players can. There will always be a portion of the player base who get a little too greedy and attempt to overfill their ships in the hopes of getting bigger rewards for less work. The appropriate response to finding yourself on the wrong side of a profitable gank is to figure out how to make yourself less profitable to gank. If more players did this, HiSec ganking would become much, much more difficult. CCP have all the abilities to fix this. Because once the criminals starts to get a harder life in high sec the more criminal acts they do with this system, the more you have to work for continuing your ganks in an easy way. And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable. I have only been talking about making it harder and harder to do your ganks the more you do it in high sec. You will still be able to gank a 10-20 bill isk freighter as easily AND as many of those as today as long as you takes more consequences / penalties for your criminal acts and as long as you takes cares of your sec status. With this, the criminals has to face the treatment as a criminal and the ones who are ganked can feel that the gankers gets a deserved penalty. This benefits EVE and it makes you think before you do your crimes. Hiasa Kite wrote: Yes, I get it. You still haven't adequately stated why these changes would benefit the game. Look over. But you haven't explained why it wouldn't benefit the game except for crying that it will make you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. In fact, it should be like that. Because, the more i steal from a grocery store, the bigger change it is that i will be locked behind a bar and not be able to freely go free around in the city. The police should work as a police with a track history over your crimes. Hiasa Kite wrote: It's not. It's extremely difficult to kill someone that has taken the appropriate steps to protect their cargo. Yes, even cargoes that require a freighter are difficult to find, track and take out when the job is done properly. It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk. Their cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not. It should rather be that you will see their value of the cargo and then see if the coming penalty that you will get for ganking him will be worth the gank. This way, you might see that the gank might not be worth it if you can't enter high sec in a ship bigger than a shuttle or a pod for one day for doing that as an example. It should be way more than just the value that determine if the gank is worth it. Hiasa Kite wrote: A competent freighter pilot enjoys somewhere in the region of 99.9% success rate, according to the stats released by Red Frog. A 0.1% chance of failing a contract is hardly guaranteed instant death when you undock. Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? With my idea, no lesser freighters will be ganked if the criminals has to work harder for each ganks / criminal acts they do. The only thing that will change is that the criminals gets treated like criminals that will get a harder life the more crimes they do, like criminals have been treated in humans history. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 373	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:40:48 - [948] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular reasoning, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? Having an instant death trap is not what the risk you are talking about is. Because an instant death trap is not the same as taking a "risk". And do you have a good explanation on why criminals shouldn't get harsher penalties for doing criminal acts / breaking the law more and more in high sec when the criminals isn't being treated as criminals that way? Who said anything about an instant death trap? I've never observed a freighter exploding immediately upon undocking. In all seriousness, any large ship fitted with/carrying expensive modules is an "instant death trap" if you're bad. As it should be. If you've got an alt scouting ahead and webbing your freighter into warp, it's going to be significantly more difficult to gank your freighter. If you turn on autopilot and make a sandwich, well, you deserve what you get. And outlaws are treated as outlaws. Once you go -depends on system security.0, the faction police chase you around, and once you go -5.0, you forfeit CONCORD protection entirely I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:48:06 - [949] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: You've utterly misunderstood the role freighters fill. Thus would explain the mistakes you've made in other posts. Freighters aren't intended to carry high value cargoes. They're intended to carry very large quantities of low value goods. Freighters are used to transport alot of things that might be worth alot. Just because they are using the ships for their intended usage, it's should be ok to let them get into a death trap just because of that? And the gankers isn't the ones who decides on how much vaule the freighters are allowed to transport as it's the freighter pilots job of deciding that. Freighters are the biggest transport ships in EVE that is meant to carry alot of items and stuffs that will be worth alot when you considers on how much they can transport. Again, the value of the cargo shouldn't be the ONLY factor a ganker has to take into consideration when you are ganking something. There should be more penalties and consequences than just losing a worthless peice of ship that costs nothing to replace and only have to wait 15 mins until you can do the same gank over and over forever. There should be a system in EVE that let's every ganker / criminals in EVE really think over the upcoming penalties and consequences they will face on top of the value on the freighters cargo before they just decides to gank away. Hiasa Kite wrote: EVE revolves around player conflict. It creates opportunities for players to compete with, sabotage, cooperate and benefit from each other. By reducing opportunities for conflict, you reduce opportunities for players to simply enjoy interacting with each other, not just the pirates. Again, my idea doesn't reduces opportunities for conflicts when you just have to work harder for your crimes to be able to gank as easily as you do now today. The more ganks you do, the more you have to work for it. The lesser ganks you do, the easier you will have it in empire. This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27899	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:48:46 - [950] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular reasoning, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? They can, whats the problem? Eve is a game of balance, as a hauler you balance your risk of getting ganked by limiting your cargo value and by sacrificing a little cargo for tank, in the case of freighters a considerable amount of tank. If it's a lower volume high value cargo you use something more suitable, like a DST; a freighter being a bulk carrier, not an armoured car. Quote: Having an instant death trap is not what the risk you are talking about is. Because an instant death trap is not the same as taking a "risk". It's not an instant death trap, not unless you were in Jita over the weekend. Hundreds of trips and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of jumps are made by freighters every day. How many die? How many die in highsec? How many die to wardecs? How many die to undocking while suspect How many die to suicide gankers? How does Crimewatch currently work? These are the sorts of things that you should know and include details of in your posts, these are facts, these we can work with. There's a problem, and I have a solution, is just opinion if you can't actually prove the problem exists in the first place. Many of us don't see a problem, it's up to you to convince us of this. So far, you're failing miserably. Quote: And do you have a good explanation on why criminals shouldn't get harsher penalties for doing criminal acts / breaking the law more and more in high sec when the criminals isn't being treated as criminals that way? We're still waiting for your explanation as to how the current system works and why the current penalties are not enough. All we've seen so far is your opinion with no actual supporting evidence. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 66	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:59:01 - [951] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? Please explain to me why you think Kusion and others have the right in sit in Highsec day in and day out destroying and taking mountains of isk without ever having grind any other part of the game like everyone else. KUSION alone has 10 trillion isk destroyed vs 31 billion which is just laughable. I'm seriously surprised that these people have been able get get away with it for so long. I don't know if CCP let's it go on because it's and it's drain or what but it's unethical game design at best. The game has this fake security status that doesn't to anything to keep anyone from getting an endless free meal in high-sec.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 373	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:59:42 - [952] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Look over. But you haven't explained why it wouldn't benefit the game except for crying that it will make you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. In fact, it should be like that. Because, the more i steal from a grocery store, the bigger change it is that i will be locked behind a bar and not be able to freely go free around in the city. The police should work as a police with a track history over your crimes. First of all, the burden of proof is on you, as you have made a suggestion. So far all I've seen is "waaaah gankers make too much money and I'm too lazy to not get ganked and it's not fair." Second, EvE is a cold, harsh universe, and we're all immortals with jump clones, so jail doesn't really work. The police chase you once you enough crimes, and CONCORD revokes its protection once you commit even more. I fail to see how adding more punishments increases realism or improves the game. NightmareX wrote: It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk. Their cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not. It should rather be that you will see their value of the cargo and then see if the coming penalty that you will get for ganking him will be worth the gank. This way, you might see that the gank might not be worth it if you can't enter high sec in a ship bigger than a shuttle or a pod for one day for doing that as an example. It should be way more than just the value that determine if the gank is worth it. Their cargo value doesn't determine their fate, their skill does. Cargo value just makes them a more valuable target, and therefore more people will want to kill them. Someone running a scout/webber and being smart can carry much more valuable loads. You don't have the right to carry a huge amount of ISK and be safe in highsec. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:02:30 - [953] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They can, whats the problem? Eve is a game of balance, as a hauler you balance your risk of getting ganked by limiting your cargo value and by sacrificing a little cargo for tank, in the case of freighters a considerable amount of tank. If it's a low volume high value cargo you use something more suitable; a freighter being a bulk carrier, not an armoured car. They seems to not be able to do their job as their value determines their fate, because the gankers isn't getting hard enough penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think harder before they actually do a crime or a gank. Again, there should be more than just the value of the cargo that should be applied before a ganker is ganking a freighter or whatever. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: It's not an instant death trap, not unless you were in Jita over the weekend. Hundreds of trips and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of jumps are made by freighters every day. How many die? How many die in highsec? How many die to wardecs? How many die to undocking while suspect How many die to suicide gankers? How does Crimewatch currently work? These are the sorts of things that you should know and include details of in your posts, these are facts, these we can work with. You know that Jita is the busiest system in EVE where alot of peoples are every day independent of Burn Jita event? And like i have said a million times already, this has nothing to do with how many freighters that dies or survives. It has ONLY to do with having a much better criminal system in EVE that makes the criminal really think over the penalties and consequences before they looks at only the value of the cargo before they just ganks away. Having a system that determines if a gank is worth it where the value of the cargo is the only deciding factor is not a good system for criminals. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's a problem, and I have a solution, is just opinion if you can't actually prove the problem exists in the first place. Many of us don't see a problem, it's up to you to convince us of this. So far, you're failing miserably. Ofc you don't see a problem here as you are a ganker and loves the easy life of ganking and the easy life of gaining massive profits for no risks by abusing an outdated system that doesn't gives the criminals good enough penalties or consequences for their actions. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We're still waiting for your explanation as to how the current system works and why the current penalties are not enough. All we've seen so far is your opinion with no actual supporting evidence. I have explained this several times. Go read them over asking to get everything handed to you with a spoon everytime. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 373	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:05:21 - [954] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? Please explain to me why you think Kusion and others have the right in sit in Highsec day in and day out destroying and taking mountains of isk without ever having grind any other part of the game like everyone else. KUSION alone has 10 trillion isk destroyed vs 31 billion which is just laughable. I'm seriously surprised that these people have been able get get away with it for so long. I don't know if CCP let's it go on because it's and it's drain or what but it's unethical game design at best. The game has this fake security status that doesn't to anything to keep anyone from getting an endless free meal in high-sec. First of all, it's more like 341 billion lost, because he uses 11 characters. Second of all, less than half drops as loot, since you have to factor in the hull cost. Third of all, why should he have to grind if he's found a far more efficient way to get ISK? There's no rule saying you can only make so much ISK per hour. Should we ban market trading since you can make too much ISK from that too? Fourth of all, what the hell is "unethical game design" anyway? We're capsuleers. We slaughter thousands on a daily basis. We don't care if it's ethical, so long as it's profitable. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:09:42 - [955] - Quote NightmareX wrote: CCP have all the abilities to fix this. Like I said, the problem is greed. CCP can't stop players from being lazy or greedy. As long as we give in to those temptations and try to push our luck, gankers will be there to capitalise on our mistakes. Quote: And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable. "Because once the criminals starts to get a harder life in high sec the more criminal acts they do with this system, the more you have to work for continuing your ganks in an easy way." Literally the sentence above. More work for ganking means less profit/hr spent ganking. Quote: With this, the criminals has to face the treatment as a criminal and the ones who are ganked can feel that the gankers gets a deserved penalty. This benefits EVE and it makes you think before you do your crimes. How does reducing opportunities for player interaction help a Massively Multiplayer Online game, exactly? Quote: Look over. But you haven't explained why it wouldn't benefit the game except for crying that it will make you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. I don't gank. Maybe spend more time putting together a valid argument and less time attempting to belittle those that disagree with you. Quote: In fact, it should be like that. I'm well aware of your opinion on the matter. Stating it over and over does very little to help see why you think the game should be changed like that. "It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk." Not quite. I'm saying a pilot that puts no effort into defending what is his deserves to lose it. If you can find a way to safely transport 10bil ISK in a freighter then I say power to you and congratulations on the vast swathes of wealth you would deservedly acquire. "And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point." I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods. "[iTheir cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not." Wait, I thought we [i]weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:11:07 - [956] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: First of all, the burden of proof is on you, as you have made a suggestion. So far all I've seen is "waaaah gankers make too much money and I'm too lazy to not get ganked and it's not fair." Second, EvE is a cold, harsh universe, and we're all immortals with jump clones, so jail doesn't really work. The police chase you once you enough crimes, and CONCORD revokes its protection once you commit even more. I fail to see how adding more punishments increases realism or improvesa the game. This has nothing to do with how much money the gankers gain. It has ONLY to do with what penalties and consequences the gankers / criminals are getting for doing ganking / crimes more and more. And it also has something to do with the insanely low risks they have to take to do their criminal acts. That's why i want a system that does apply a track history of your crimes where Concord will be punishing you harder and harder the more crimes you do every day. And ofc where you will be more limited in high sec depending on your sec status. Again, you should work for your crimes and not just press F1 to gank something and warp back to station and do the same thing over and over forever. It should be harder than that. NightmareX wrote: It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk. [quote=NightmareX]Their cargo value doesn't determine their fate, their skill does. Cargo value just makes them a more valuable target, and therefore more people will want to kill them. Someone running a scout/webber and being smart can carry much more valuable loads. You don't have the right to carry a huge amount of ISK and be safe in highsec. Both the value of the ship and the cargo is what determine if a gank will happen or not. Yes, a freighter is an expensive ship that is dead slow. Should it die in an instant gank just because it's worth some isks where the gankers doesn't face any harder penalties or consequences for doing that over and over, specially when it's so freaking easy to do that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:18:49 - [957] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: "[iTheir cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not." Wait, I thought we [i]weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right? No one cares what the targets are doing. People will always overload and ganking will always be in the game. Please explain why you think its ok for criminals to overstay their welcome in Highsec without having to grind any other mechanics of the game so that they can continue ganking in highsec. EVE is not meant to be easy, if you cant keep your security status in check, you should not be able to treat ganking as your source of income indefinitely.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27899	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:22:08 - [958] - Quote NightmareX wrote: You know that Jita is the busiest system in EVE where alot of peoples are every day independent of Burn Jita event? So there is plenty of public domain data that should support you, why aren't you analysing it and presenting the results to support your call for change? Quote: And like i have said a million times already, this has nothing to do with how many freighters that dies or survives. It has ONLY to do with having a much better criminal system in EVE that makes the criminal really think over the penalties and consequences before they looks at only the value of the cargo before they just ganks away. Having a system that determines if a gank is worth it where the value of the cargo is the only deciding factor is not a good system for criminals. You appear to be in a minority of about 3 that thinks it's better. You're not going to convince the people who disagree by telling them that's there's a problem, you have to prove it. So far the amount of what you think far outweighs the amount of actual proof. Quote: Ofc you don't see a problem here as you are a ganker and loves the easy life of ganking and the easy life of gaining massive profits for no risks by abusing an outdated system that doesn't gives the criminals good enough penalties or consequences for their actions. Ah, we're back to this again. You are aware that it's a fallacy to assume that I'm a ganker simply because I disagree with you? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We're still waiting for your explanation as to how the current system works and why the current penalties are not enough. All we've seen so far is your opinion with no actual supporting evidence. I have explained this several times. Go read them over asking to get everything handed to you with a spoon everytime.[/quote]So where's the actual supporting evidence? Telling is something is so does not make it so. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:26:32 - [959] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Like I said, the problem is greed. CCP can't stop players from being lazy or greedy. As long as we give in to those temptations and try to push our luck, gankers will be there to capitalise on our mistakes. So greed should determine if a freighter pilot should be able to do their job or not? Ofc, they might not be able to do their job as they might get ganked on their way like it is now. But that shouldn't prevent criminals from gaining harsher penatlies and consequences the more crimes they do in high sec. Hiasa Kite wrote: Literally the sentence above. More work for ganking means less profit/hr spent ganking. Yes, no less ganks will happen as long as you gets your finger out of your ass and works for your criminal actions over just warping back to a station and refit the same ship again and waits 15 mins which isn't what i call for much work for what you gain. Hiasa Kite wrote: How does reducing opportunities for player interaction help a Massively Multiplayer Online game, exactly? And how is it fair that you don't have to work for your criminal actions at all other than just warping back to station and refit a ship and wait 15 mins when everyone else has to work their asses off to do their job? Hiasa Kite wrote: I don't gank. Maybe spend more time putting together a valid argument and less time attempting to belittle those that disagree with you. That's something you say to justify your lame arguments more. Everyone knows that you are a ganker with one or more characters. Hiasa Kite wrote: I'm well aware of your opinion on the matter. Stating it over and over does very little to help see why you think the game should be changed like that. I'm stating it over and over as peoples doesn't seems to figure out that my idea has nothing to do with the value of anything, ability to continue to to the ganks and so on. It has ONLY to do with facing harder penalties and consequences the more crimes you do that makes the criminals work a bit more for their crimes. And that is fair, because a criminal is a criminal after all and not a normal citizen of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:27:19 - [960] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Not quite. I'm saying a pilot that puts no effort into defending what is his deserves to lose it. If you can find a way to safely transport 10bil ISK in a freighter then I say power to you and congratulations on the vast swathes of wealth you would deservedly acquire. And how do you think a freighter pilot is supposed to defend themself from a bumping Machariel that can be everywhere considering on how many that are flying it that only uses a couple of seconds to ruin his day and will just keep the freighter or whatever bumped until the gank squad arrives. Yes, you can use an alt or a friend to gain some benefits that way for the freighter. But then my question is, why does the freighter pilot has to work his ass off for defending his job / ship when you don't have to work at all to gank him except for warping to the target, press F1, warp back to station and do the same over again after 15 mins? If they have to work their asses off to defend their stuffs, then we suggest that the criminals also should work their asses off. Not only that, but criminals in high sec that breaks the rules of high sec should be working much much harder than any law abiding citizens that are in high sec. Hiasa Kite wrote: I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods. And who decides that? You the ganker or the freighter pilot? Hiasa Kite wrote: Wait, I thought we weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right? All i'm saying is that no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is. But it's not that for the gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:31:13 - [961] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: First of all, it's more like 341 billion lost, because he uses 11 characters. Second of all, less than half drops as loot, since you have to factor in the hull cost. Third of all, why should he have to grind if he's found a far more efficient way to get ISK? There's no rule saying you can only make so much ISK per hour. Should we ban market trading since you can make too much ISK from that too? Fourth of all, what the hell is "unethical game design" anyway? We're capsuleers. We slaughter thousands on a daily basis. We don't care if it's ethical, so long as it's profitable. I must have missed the memo where CCP is handing out free Jump Freighters. Why should anyone have to grind if they can just gamble their isk... because they are taking no risk for a maximum reward in an infinite loop.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:31:59 - [962] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Freighters are used to transport alot of things that might be worth alot. Can be, but better options exist for transporting high value cargo. The freighter is not the be-all-end-all of transport logistics. Quote: it's should be ok to let them get into a death trap just because of that? Who lets them enter the death trap? Might it be the person flying the freighter? I'm thinking it's the person flying the freighter. Quote: And the gankers isn't the ones who decides on how much vaule the freighters are allowed to transport as it's the freighter pilots job of deciding that. It's not a question of what one is "allowed" to do. It's a question of what one can do safely. The magic number that dictates this safe cargo value is dictated by the market, game play mechanics, gankers, freighter pilots. In fact, pretty much everything in EVE will have some degree of impact (albeit some would be minuscule) on this magic safe value. Quote: [Freighters are the biggest transport ships in EVE that is meant to carry alot of items and stuffs that will be worth alot when you considers on how much they can transport. I'm not sure about that. You can quite happily fill a freighter for much, much less than a billion ISK. If the value/m3 starts climbing too high, you'll want to consider using scouts/escorts, or just using smaller, more defensible ships to transport the much more valuable goods. "Again, the value of the cargo shouldn't be the ONLY factor a ganker has to take into consideration when you are ganking something. There should be more penalties and consequences than just losing a worthless peice of ship that costs nothing to replace and only have to wait 15 mins until you can do the same gank over and over forever." You're doing it again. You're stating your opinion but not actually explaining how these changes benefit the game. "Again, my idea doesn't reduces opportunities for conflicts when you just have to work harder for your crimes to be able to gank as easily as you do now today." The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit. As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec. And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity. Really? You're really advocating this argument right here? "This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today." Apparently so. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27900	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:35:44 - [963] - Quote NightmareX wrote: All i'm saying is that no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is. But it's not that for the gankers. So once you've gotten rid of most of the risk that freighter pilots face, by forcing gankers to either grind or face being unable to operate, which means less ganks because time grinding is time not spent ganking; does their reward go down too? After all no risk, no reward. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:40:16 - [964] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So there is plenty of public domain data that should support you, why aren't you analysing it and presenting the results to support your call for change? Still doesn't change the fact that there should be a criminal system in EVE that treats criminals like criminals and not like 'Oh you was bad and now you are only bad boy for 15 mins' system like we have now. The 15 minute Concord timer is way to little of a penalty when you considers the gain you get for doing it. Yes, you lose a ship for ganking, you can be shot for 15 minutes by everyone and you lose some few million isk for ganking in a super cheap Destroyer. But those things has no effects what so ever to reduce the ganks that happens. Aka, the current penalties doesn't work. The only penalty that somewhat works are the 15 minute Concord timer. And that's pretty much it. And that's way to little of a penalty for doing a gank, specialluy when you can just keep doing it over and over again without any harsher penalties. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If it's not about freighter ganking why do you and your comedy sidekick keep bringing it up? You appear to be in a minority of about 3 that think your system would be better. You're not going to convince the people who disagree by telling them that's there's a problem, and when they dispute it, telling them that there's a problem. You have to prove it. So far the amount of what you think far outweighs the amount of actual proof. Read over why i have proven that the current criminal system towards gankers are useless. If there had been a limit on hoe much you could gank every day, then there wouldn't be an issue, but as you can just do it forever every 15 minutes, then the criminal system should either use a limit on the amount of ganks you can do in the same way as now without any other changes, OR it should make doing crimes harder to do the more you do it without any limits. Again, work for your crimes. And in the current form of ganking, there is no work for the actual ganker on doing his objective. That's why it needs to be changed. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Ah, we're back to this again. You are aware that it's a fallacy to assume that I'm a ganker simply because I disagree with you? You might disagree with me, but explain why you are against a criminal system that treats criminals as criminals that does it so the criminals have to work more and more the more ganks they do? Again, if you steal a pack of bubblegum from a store every day, do you think you will get a free pass to go freely around without gaining huge penalties or even jail time for doing it enough times? Again, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal, specially in a game that is only about humans flying spaceships. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So where's the actual supporting evidence? Telling is something is so, does not make it so. Ahh ok, so you are blind. Thanks for confirming it. Make effort in reading what i'm saying. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:42:13 - [965] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? Please explain to me why you think Kusion and others have the right in sit in Highsec day in and day out destroying and taking mountains of isk without ever having grind any other part of the game like everyone else. Because his targets couldn't be bothered to protect their mountains of isk. Quote: KUSION alone has 10 trillion isk destroyed vs 31 billion which is just laughable. Yes, it's amazing how many incompetent players inhabit just about any game. Quote: I don't know if CCP let's it go on because it's and it's drain or what but it's unethical game design at best. It's pretty good game design actually. Before I got into EVE I'd convinced myself that world PvP and ganking in general were just terrible game elements. EVE taught me that when implemented correctly, they can create an extremely exciting and fin game. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:44:36 - [966] - Quote NightmareX wrote: And like i have said a million times already, this has nothing to do with how many freighters that dies or survives. It has ONLY to do with having a much better criminal system in EVE that makes the criminal really think over the penalties and consequences before they looks at only the value of the cargo before they just ganks away. We're very much aware that you've repeated this sentiment many times. What we're asking is [b]WHY DO YOU THINK THIS CHANGE IS NECESSARY?[b] This is the question you're seriously struggling to answer. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:47:32 - [967] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: "[iTheir cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not.[/i]" Wait, I thought we weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right? No one cares what the targets are doing. People will always overload and ganking will always be in the game. Agreed. Quote: Please explain why you think its ok for criminals to overstay their welcome in Highsec They're overstaying their welcome in HiSec? You're the authority on who and who isn't welcome in HiSec now? Move over James 315, HiSec has a new saviour, apparently. Quote: EVE is not meant to be easy Agreed. That said, it kind of is; not if you're dumb, though. Quote: if you cant keep your security status in check, you should not be able to treat ganking as your source of income indefinitely. Why? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:51:16 - [968] - Quote Freighter pilots and what they do have no relation to the OP. The OP suggests that criminals be required to manage their security status properly. This is based on gankers being able to stay invulnerable (by staying in warp) as well as being able to avoid Faction Police indefinitely until their gank is complete. Those who continue to troll their own agenda about freighter pilots and how they are irresponsible have been reported. I have told you that this issue has already been talked to death in previous posts and has no bearing on what the OP is seeking to accomplish.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:00:43 - [969] - Quote NightmareX wrote: So greed should determine if a freighter pilot should be able to do their job or not? Should it? I don't know. I just know that it does. Quote: Ofc, they might not be able to do their job as they might get ganked on their way like it is now. But that shouldn't prevent criminals from gaining harsher penatlies and consequences the more crimes they do in high sec. Obligatory: Why? Quote: Yes, no less ganks will happen as long as you gets your finger out of your ass and works for your criminal actions over just warping back to a station and refit the same ship again and waits 15 mins which isn't what i call for much work for what you gain. You're doing it again. Your proposal has no direct impact on my game. It does however reduce the number of pilots engaging in suicide ganking because you're trying to force them to do more work for the same gain. "And how is it fair that you don't have to work for your criminal actions at all other than just warping back to station and refit a ship and wait 15 mins when everyone else has to work their asses off to do their job?" I wouldn't call clicking autopilot and going AFK "working my ass off". "That's something you say to justify your lame arguments more. Everyone knows that you are a ganker with one or more characters." Do you have any real arguments or are we going the ad hominem route? Quote: I'm stating it over and over as peoples doesn't seems to figure out that my idea has nothing to do with the value of anything, ability to continue to to the ganks and so on. You're trying to force gankers to do more work for the same gains. You're also actively trying to reduce repeat ganking - an activity often seen in large fleets because the group of players is attempting to make the most use of their time in a fleet together. =====>>YOU ARE ALSO NOT EXPLAINING HOW YOUR IDEA WILL BENEFIT THE GAME<<===== <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:01:22 - [970] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Can be, but better options exist for transporting high value cargo. The freighter is not the be-all-end-all of transport logistics. Yes, that's what they do and that's what they are supposed to do to be able to do their job effectively towards customers and so on. Hiasa Kite wrote: Who lets them enter the death trap? Might it be the person flying the freighter? I'm thinking it's the person flying the freighter. The gankers who can just easly gank them without good enough penalties that works against them that just ganks dependent on their cargo value and not because of the penalties they will face. Both the value of the freighters or other ships with the cargo and the penalties you get for doing the gank should be a factor if you will be doing the gank or not. Hiasa Kite wrote: It's not a question of what one is "allowed" to do. It's a question of what one can do safely. The magic number that dictates this safe cargo value is dictated by the market, game play mechanics, gankers, freighter pilots. In fact, pretty much everything in EVE will have some degree of impact (albeit some would be minuscule) on this magic safe value. Again, you are deciding if the ganks are worth it ONLY because of the value and not because of the upcoming penalties you get on top of that. There should be a system that makes you think about the penalties before you do a gank to really see if it will be worth the gank. It's a super easy system that will work. Hiasa Kite wrote: I'm not sure about that. You can quite happily fill a freighter for much, much less than a billion ISK. If the value/m3 starts climbing too high, you'll want to consider using scouts/escorts, or just using smaller, more defensible ships to transport the much more valuable goods. Again, the ones who decides how much value you should fly around with it's the pilot of the said ship and not the ones who do ganks. If the freighter pilot decides to do a freighter job for a corp that includes alot of items worth alot of isk that needs to be delivered somewhere, then he should be able to do that without having to limit his job and doing his job poorly just because the gankers doesn't like it and finds it easy to gank everything that has some value that forces the freighter pilots to do 3 runs instead of 1, just because the cargo was a bit expensive. Again, you gankers are denying the freither pilots to do their intended job. There are alot of things in EVE that has a value that are also meant to be worth alot. Doesn't mean they should be ganked just because of their value alone. [quote=Hiasa Kite]You're doing it again. You're stating your opinion but not actually explaining how these changes benefit the game. No, i'm stating the hard facts on how easy it is to do ganking as explained over. You just warp to the target from somewhere, press F1, warps back to station in a pod. Fits up a new ship that takes 10 seconds and undock, then it's rince and repeat. This is not opinion on how that's done, because that's exactly how it is done for the actual gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:02:15 - [971] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit. As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec. And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity. Really? You're really advocating this argument right here? Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it. And again, this has nothing to do with what you gank. It has only to do with the penalties you get for continuing to do the criminal acts / ganking. And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal? This only applies to those who decides to do it much more every day and not against those who just do 1 or 2 ganks everyday as they will have it pretty nice and easy in high sec. It's those who do ganks 5-6 times a day that will get punished harder for breaking the law times after times. Hiasa Kite wrote: "This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today." Apparently so. Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18720	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:02:39 - [972] - Quote NightmareX wrote: So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? What evidence do you have to say freighters are undocking into a deathtrap? Using the data gathered from the largest hauling organisation in EVE, Red Freight, a freighter has a less than 0.20% chance of getting ganked per 1.7 million gate jumps in highsec.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:06:10 - [973] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? What evidence do you have to say freighters are undocking into a deathtrap? Using the data gathered from the largest hauling organisation in EVE, Red Freight, a freighter has a less than 0.20% chance of getting ganked per 1.7 million gate jumps in highsec. Because they will get killed by gankers if it's worth enough no matter what ship it is if the gankers goes for it. So it's a denial of their playing just because they can't do their job of being an effective freighter pilot just because the gankers says so, because they can. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:08:44 - [974] - Quote NightmareX .... Don't run in circles with them. They are merely trolling. Only respond to meaningful things related to the OP. If they want to go back and read your previous posts, then they are free to do so.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:11:24 - [975] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Not quite. I'm saying a pilot that puts no effort into defending what is his deserves to lose it. If you can find a way to safely transport 10bil ISK in a freighter then I say power to you and congratulations on the vast swathes of wealth you would deservedly acquire. And how do you think a freighter pilot is supposed to defend themself from a bumping Machariel that can be everywhere considering on how many that are flying it that only uses a couple of seconds to ruin his day and will just keep the freighter or whatever bumped until the gank squad arrives. Intel via in-game and 3rd party resources, scouts, web escorts, military/logi/ECM support, breaking the cargo down into smaller, more manageable chunks, alternate routes including LoSec and the use of jump freighters to traverse if necessary, subcontracting to another freighter if you feel you're not prepared to deal with the risks. Our cup runneth over. Quote: Yes, you can use an alt or a friend to gain some benefits that way for the freighter. But then my question is, why does the freighter pilot has to work his ass off for defending his job / ship when you don't have to work at all to gank him except for warping to the target, press F1, warp back to station and do the same over again after 15 mins? Are you honestly trying to tell me that expecting two people to work together is far too much when attempting to defend against somewhere in the region of TWENTY people working together? Consider the above. Do you think that maybe, just maybe you're a little biased right there? Quote: If they have to work their asses off to defend their stuffs, then we suggest that the criminals also should work their asses off. Not only that, but criminals in high sec that breaks the rules of high sec should be working much much harder than any law abiding citizens that are in high sec. They can be aggressed at any time by other players, plus have to deal with kill rights if they fix their sec status, they're always on the run from FacPo and have at best a window of 24 seconds to kill their targets. You do realise that those above conditions mean that criminals can do literally nothing in HiSec except fly around and gank, right? -"I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: [b]Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods" -"And who decides that?" CCP. They're the ones that designed them. "All i'm saying is that no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is. But it's not that for the gankers." Because the game has greedy pilots overfilling their ships with loot, then going on to fail to keep their loot pinatas safe. Like I said: It's not a mechanical problem, it's a player created problem, specifically players that possess an unfortunate combination of stupidity, greed and sloth. These people will always exist, so profitable ganks will always exist. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:19:40 - [976] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Still doesn't change the fact that there should be a criminal system in EVE that treats criminals like criminals and not like 'Oh you was bad and now you are only bad boy for 15 mins' system like we have now. That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary. Quote: The 15 minute Concord timer is way to little of a penalty when you considers the gain you get for doing it. The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former. Quote: Yes, you lose a ship for ganking, you can be shot for 15 minutes by everyone and you lose some few million isk for ganking in a super cheap Destroyer. But those things has no effects what so ever to reduce the ganks that happens. OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec. No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all. Quote: If there had been a limit on hoe much you could gank every day, then there wouldn't be an issue, Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..." <^.^> I'm a cat lol
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18720	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:20:12 - [977] - Quote NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: What evidence do you have to say freighters are undocking into a deathtrap? Using the data gathered from the largest hauling organisation in EVE, Red Freight, a freighter has a less than 0.20% chance of getting ganked per 1.7 million gate jumps in highsec. Because they will get killed by gankers if it's worth enough no matter what ship it is if the gankers goes for it. So it's a denial of their playing just because they can't do their job of being an effective freighter pilot transporting alot of stuffs in the cargohold they have got in their ships, just because the gankers says so and because they can. 0.20% chance of getting ganked per 1.7 million gate jumps in highsec Clearly they are not getting killed, much like my own freighter that is 7 years old now.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:21:59 - [978] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Freighter pilots and what they do have no relation to the OP. The OP suggests that criminals be required to manage their security status properly. This is based on gankers being able to stay invulnerable (by staying in warp) as well as being able to avoid Faction Police indefinitely until their gank is complete. Depending on circumstances, gankers have 2 - 24 seconds to complete their gank from the instant they open fire. Faction police do not impose this limit, CONCORD do and this limit cannot be evaded (doing so is an actionable offence). <^.^> I'm a cat lol
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18720	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:27:44 - [979] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No, i'm stating the hard facts on how easy it is to do ganking as explained over. You just warp to the target from somewhere, press F1, warps back to station in a pod. Fits up a new ship that takes 10 seconds and undock, then it's rince and repeat. This is not opinion on how that's done, because that's exactly how it is done for the actual gankers. If they tried to do it that way they would lose all of their ships bar the first one on the station undock. Seems you have no idea how ganking works.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:29:21 - [980] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Intel via in-game and 3rd party resources, scouts, web escorts, military/logi/ECM support, breaking the cargo down into smaller, more manageable chunks, alternate routes including LoSec and the use of jump freighters to traverse if necessary, subcontracting to another freighter if you feel you're not prepared to deal with the risks. Our cup runneth over. So again, the freighter pilots has to work their asses off while you as a ganker can just warp into the targets and do your job without any more work than that? The fact that you think that's fair says all about you. You are a massive ganker that knows how easy and how much you gains by doing it and does everything to defend against, because it makes you work for your actions. Hiasa Kite wrote: Are you honestly trying to tell me that expecting two people to work together is far too much when attempting to defend against somewhere in the region of TWENTY people working together? Consider the above. Do you think that maybe, just maybe you're a little biased right there? As i have said earlier, having an alt with a webber is not going to prevent the freighter from dying if some gankers really want that freighter dead as they will have multiple bumping Machariels pleaced out in every directions that will try to bump the freighters out of allignment in few seconds. I know how fast a nano Machariel can be, so don't teach me on something i have learned many years ago. And what does an intel channel help against gankers if there is Machariels everywhere that the freighter pilots can take as a bumping Machariels. Should the freighter pilots just stop doing his job because he sees a Machariel? Hiasa Kite wrote: They can be aggressed at any time by other players, plus have to deal with kill rights if they fix their sec status, they're always on the run from FacPo and have at best a window of 24 seconds to kill their targets. You do realise that those above conditions mean that criminals can do literally nothing in HiSec except fly around and gank, right? -"I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: [b]Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods" -"And who decides that?" CCP. They're the ones that designed them. Again, you are making no sense as you aren't discussing the actual issue of how easy the criminals can get away with doing ganks. If you want to have a discussion, then talk about what the case is about. And the case is giving criminals a system that makes them work harder for doing criminal acts. That's all. Hiasa Kite wrote: Because the game has greedy pilots overfilling their ships with loot, then going on to fail to keep their loot pinatas safe. Like I said: It's not a mechanical problem, it's a player created problem, specifically players that possess an unfortunate combination of stupidity, greed and sloth. Being greedy has nothing to do with how criminals should be treated. You can still be greedy as hell but not without harsher penalties and still at the same time being able to do as many ganks then as you do today with some more work for your criminal actions. Hiasa Kite wrote: These people will always exist, so profitable ganks will always exist. Ofc ganks always will be there. But ganks shouldn't come without penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think about those things before they do a gank. And lastly. I have explained you in highly details on why criminals should be treated as crininals and not like a '15 minute naughty boy' as you do now. If you don't want to give reasonable arguments back on why that's a bad idea, then don't expect someone to take you seriously either. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:29:21 - [981] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Depending on circumstances, gankers have 2 - 24 seconds to complete their gank from the instant they open fire. Faction police do not impose this limit, CONCORD do and this limit cannot be evaded (doing so is an actionable offence). Faction Police are the ones who pursue in system based on security status. The issue arises when you have maxed out your security status and you can still warp around, trailing faction police around in Highsec all day long if you desire. Once you go forth with a gank, CONCORD comes in and wrecks, essentially rendering Faction Police useless against "career gankers" who do nothing else but gank all-day everyday every 15min. They are not prevented for staging right in jita so that they can purchase and manufacture new gank ships without every having to jump one gate with their freighter who travels to 4-4 for materials.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:31:27 - [982] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Still doesn't change the fact that there should be a criminal system in EVE that treats criminals like criminals and not like 'Oh you was bad and now you are only bad boy for 15 mins' system like we have now. The 15 minute Concord timer is way to little of a penalty when you considers the gain you get for doing it. What fact? This is your opinion, it is a subjective statement, it is biased around what you believe to be true, not what is actually true. For it to be fact it would need to be an objective review of the available information, as such it would have to be free of any opinion, emotional bias, personal feelings etc, it would also have to verifiable. The onus is on you, as the "owner" of the solution to the problem that you perceive, to provide a source for verification and an overview of the methods you used to to analysis it . Thus far your supporting evidence consists of your opinion. Quote: Yes, you lose a ship for ganking, you can be shot for 15 minutes by everyone and you lose some few million isk for ganking in a super cheap Destroyer. But those things has no effects what so ever to reduce the ganks that happens. Aka, the current penalties doesn't work. The only penalty that somewhat works are the 15 minute Concord timer. And that's pretty much it. And that's way to little of a penalty for doing a gank, specialluy when you can just keep doing it over and over again without any harsher penalties. The current penalties are harsh enough that only a couple of organised groups suicide gank; 95%+ of people in hisec don't do it, because they consider the penalty to be too harsh. The percentage of people that gank is small, and so is the number of ships that they kill. Quote: Read over why i have proven that the current criminal system towards gankers are useless. If there had been a limit on hoe much you could gank every day, then there wouldn't be an issue, but as you can just do it forever every 15 minutes, then the criminal system should either use a limit on the amount of ganks you can do in the same way as now without any other changes, OR it should make doing crimes harder to do the more you do it without any limits. Again, work for your crimes. And in the current form of ganking, there is no work for the actual ganker on doing his objective. That's why it needs to be changed. You've done nothing of the sort, you've given us some opinion and some more opinion. Proof requires facts, your opinion is not fact. Quote: You might disagree with me, but explain why you are against a criminal system that treats criminals as criminals that does it so the criminals have to work more and more the more ganks they do? Again, if you steal a pack of bubblegum from a store every day, do you think you will get a free pass to go freely around without gaining huge penalties or even jail time for doing it enough times? Again, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal, specially in a game that is only about humans flying spaceships. Because the current system is already working well. Enough people find the current penalties harsh enough that they are discouraged from doing it, resulting in only a very small percentage of people suicide ganking. That is balanced. Also capsuleers aren't human, they've transcended the limits of mortality through technology. As capsuleers we're closer to the Borg than we are baseline humans Quote: Ahh ok, so you are blind. Thanks for confirming it. Make effort in reading what i'm saying. If you've already provided the supporting evidence, why can't anybody find it? We know what you're saying, you've been saying the same damn thing for days, and it's still your opinion. Telling us something is so, does not make it so. You keep telling us that ganking is broken, when we look at it's working fine. What does appear to be broken is your understanding of the words opinion, subjective, objective, proof, fact, risk, reward, effort and balance, amongst other things. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:35:52 - [983] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Yes, that's what they do and that's what they are supposed to do to be able to do their job effectively towards customers and so on. Having one ultimate ship that hands down beats any other is really, really bad game design. Every ship in EVE has a role that it excels at. Very few (any?) are capable of doing everything. Quote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Who lets them enter the death trap? Might it be the person flying the freighter? I'm thinking it's the person flying the freighter. The gankers who can just easly gank them The gankers are not the ones flying the freighter. They are not hijacking peoples accounts to fly their ships into fiery death. Every pilot is capable of avoiding death when they use the tools at their disposal. You can't blame the game or the other players when you're not using what has already been given to you. "Again, you are deciding if the ganks are worth it ONLY because of the value and not because of the upcoming penalties you get on top of that. There should be a system that makes you think about the penalties before you do a gank to really see if it will be worth the gank." Obligatory: Why? "Again, the ones who decides how much value you should fly around with it's the pilot of the said ship and not the ones who do ganks. If the freighter pilot decides to do a freighter job for a corp that includes alot of items worth alot of isk that needs to be delivered somewhere, then he should be able to do that without having to limit his job" Wrong. If you take away choice from players, EVE becomes another boring generic grind simulator #218,556. By giving players meaningful choice - in this case between greatest profit and chance of failure, you break down the infamous grind and allow all manner of positive player interactions to take place. "and doing his job poorly" If you're making a profit by getting your goods to their destination safely, you're not doing your job poorly. "just because the gankers doesn't like it" The gankers opinions of other players' activities are irrelevant. "Again, you gankers are denying the freither pilots to do their intended job." Gankers are a major reason why freighter pilots even have jobs. "There are alot of things in EVE that has a value that are also meant to be worth alot." Value is dictated by consensus, not by a single party, including you. "[i]Doesn't mean they should be ganked just because of their value alone." Obligatory: Why? "[i]No, i'm stating the hard facts on how easy it is to do ganking as explained over." EVE has few game play opportunities that can be described as "difficult". Much of what a pilot does involves leisurely clicking a few buttons. The real "challenge" in EVE comes in our more strategic decisions - our ability to assess a situation and react accordingly, rather than our ability to rapidly click on that tiny, fast moving target. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:36:07 - [984] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary. It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. DOing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Hiasa Kite wrote: The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former. Yes, the Concord timer is something CCP controls. And they also are the ones who are the ones who can change that for the better if there are many ideas on how to improve it, like this topic is meant for in the first place. Hiasa Kite wrote: OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec. No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all. LOL, you didn't even give me an argument on why i was wrong on that one. Does that mean i'm right that the current penalties has no effects on punishing the gankers enough? Hiasa Kite wrote: Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..." Ganking is fine which this topic clearly states. But because you are stubborn and can't read, you still haven't figured out that this topic and what i'm saying has nothing to do with the actual ganking in itself, but what kind of penalties and consequences the actual players that DOES a criminal act or ganking should face AFTER the intital ganking has happened. Do you even read bro? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 73	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:41:11 - [985] - Quote Thank you for continually bumping my OP. It continues to receive more likes and attention.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:43:47 - [986] - Quote NightmareX wrote: It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Not bad. you forgot about being shoot on sight due to low security status and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 3/10 for including at a partial truth. Quote: Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18720	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:44:39 - [987] - Quote NightmareX wrote: It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Ship destroyed by a force that cannot be tanked, cannot be avoided and which will both jam and neut you dry near instantly upon spawning. 6-19 seconds to carry out their hostile actions Security standing hit for every target they kill No insurance payout for their ship loss 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship any loot that drops has a 50/50 chance of being destroyed per stack of items killrights are placed against them that can be sold on the open market or claimed at any point. When their security status hits -5 they can be openly attacked by anyone at -5 security status the faction police and gate guns will also open fire, web and scram assuming the same tactics are employed that gankers use, the gank ship will be profitable itself to gank (up to 18 mil drop + salvage for the bomber, 46 mil + salvage for the talos, 7 mil + salvage for the catalyst) any loot will need to be scooped by a hauler which will be put at risk. attempting to avoid concord is a bannable offence attempting to avoid negative sec status by deleting your character is a bannable offence Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk No guarantee the attack will work Thats quite a list of punishments and risks they face. Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:48:38 - [988] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Ship destroyed by a force that cannot be tanked, cannot be avoided and which will both jam and neut you dry near instantly upon spawning. 6-19 seconds to carry out their hostile actions Security standing hit for every target they kill No insurance payout for their ship loss 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship any loot that drops has a 50/50 chance of being destroyed per stack of items killrights are placed against them that can be sold on the open market or claimed at any point. When their security status hits -5 they can be openly attacked by anyone at -5 security status the faction police and gate guns will also open fire, web and scram assuming the same tactics are employed that gankers use, the gank ship will be profitable itself to gank (up to 18 mil drop + salvage for the bomber, 46 mil + salvage for the talos, 7 mil + salvage for the catalyst) any loot will need to be scooped by a hauler which will be put at risk. attempting to avoid concord is a bannable offence attempting to avoid negative sec status by deleting your character is a bannable offence Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk No guarantee the attack will work Thats quite a list of punishments and risks they face. Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable. We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:49:32 - [989] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What fact? This is your opinion, it is a subjective statement, it is biased around what you believe to be true, not what is actually true. For it to be fact it would need to be an objective review of the available information, as such it would have to be free of any opinion, emotional bias, personal feelings etc, it would also have to verifiable. The onus is on you, as the "owner" of the solution to the problem that you perceive, to provide a source for verification and an overview of the methods you used to to analysis it . Thus far your supporting evidence consists of your opinion. It's the hard facts that losing a cheap Destroyer and only gets a 15 minute timer isn't considered a punishment for thtion the objectives they have. Not even the fact that everyone can shoot you for 15 minutes either isn't going to make the ganking in it self ANY harder at all. The only thing that works against the gankers are the 15 minute Concord timer which again is way to little risk compared to what you gain. So explain to me why a lame 15 minute timer is a good enough of a punishment for the gankers? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The current penalties are harsh enough that only a couple of organised groups suicide gank; 95%+ of people in hisec don't do it, because they consider the penalty to be too harsh. The percentage of people that gank is small, and so is the number of ships that they kill. Read over. The penalties are useless except for the lil 15 minute Concord timer. And a lil 15 minute Concord timer isn't even considered a real punishment. It's just a waiting game, not a punishment. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You've done nothing of the sort, you've given us some opinion and some more opinion. Proof requires facts, your opinion is not fact. I have given an idea on a system that you barely have been able to counter argument against. You use a lame and aggressive tone in your discussion here and drags in tons of other things that has nothing to do with the penalties that a criminal should face for doing more and more crimes that is the ONLY thing i'm talking about. Grow up or don't do arguments here if you are not here to argument, but to be a troll with lame arguments. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because the current system is already working well. Enough people find the current penalties harsh enough that they are discouraged from doing it, resulting in only a very small percentage of people suicide ganking. That is balanced. Also capsuleers aren't human, they've transcended the limits of mortality through technology. As capsuleers we're closer to the Borg than we are baseline humans Ofc you will say the current system is working, because you are a lame ganker abusing an outdated system to gain in massive profits for no risk and barly any work. Ofc you don't want that to be changed so you have to make some more efforts in your criminal activity. I'm not stupid if you think i'am that. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you've already provided the supporting evidence, why can't anybody find it? We know what you're saying, you've been saying the same damn thing for days, and it's still your opinion. Telling us something is so, does not make it so. You keep telling us that ganking is broken, when we look at it's working fine. What does appear to be broken is your understanding of the words opinion, subjective, objective, proof, fact, risk, reward, effort and balance, amongst other things. My evidences are in what i'm saying about how criminals should be treated as. A criminal shouldn't just be a naughty boy for 15 minutes and then be back doing same crimes over and over without facing more penalties. It's logic that criminals will face harsher penalties the more crimes they do. It's normal practice to do against criminals. Yes, it's also only your opiniopn that my idea wont work, but that's just because you are a ganker and don't want to make some more effort in your criminal activities to be able to get into high sec without problems. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:52:29 - [990] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right. Clearly some do not know this because they keep on insisting there are no risks or punishments for ganking.

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:53:00 - [991] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Not bad. you forgot about the drop in sec status becoming being shoot on sight due to it, and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 2.5/10 for including a partial truth. A drop in sec status wont prevent you in ANY types of form from undocking a new ship and gank someone. Sec status doesn't matter in this case. Again, you should work more for your criminal acts. But hey, ignorance is bliss. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's? No, it's a fact that a 15 minute naughty boy timer should be more than that when you as a ganker don't gain ANY penalties what so ever for what you are doing except for a 15 minute waiting game which isn't a penalty in the first place for you. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:55:08 - [992] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right. Clearly some do not know this because they keep on insisting there are no risks or punishments for ganking. Is it really worth arguing with one person. Wouldn't you just rather be playing EVE at this point.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:56:57 - [993] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: ~list of consequences~ Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable. We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there is 50 pages of content right. Why are these consequences for ganking not adequate? Taking into account the game lore, the game premise, the long standing history of the game and the fact that it is a game; what metric of justice are you using? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:57:06 - [994] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit. As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec. And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity. Really? You're really advocating this argument right here? Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it. But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable. Quote: And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal? Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway? Quote: Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go. A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention. His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle. (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights. The freighter falls. A flurry of activity ensues. High alpha antiganker ships attempt to blap the wreck before it gets looted, attempting to deny the gankers their spoils. They may also attempt to ninja loot. simultaneously, a 3rd party (or parties) arrive and attempt their own ninja loot - they don't care about the piracy or the drama, they simply spotted a chance for some easy loot. Services are offered to escort and protect freighters to prevent similar situations. Players share information about the current activity of known prolific gankers and whether or not known hotspots are camped. Alternative services such as JFs are offered (for a fee) to help freighter pilots out. The inevitable destruction of at least some of the loot means gaps in the market remain open, maintaining and possibly opening new trade opportunisties for entrepreneurs. All manner of player interaction can happen at any given gank. The mere possibility of their existence gives rise to player movements to hinder or help people on either side of the fight. These are all examples of player interaction, be it cooperative, competitive, combative or indirect. Adversity drives player interaction. In an MMO, particularly EVE who's strongest selling point is indeed the opportunity to interact with many thousands of other people through a space age dystopia; adversity creates opportunity for us to make friends and make enemies - who can later become our friends. These are awesome things to have in an MMO and player conflict is how EVE does it. It's not only awesome, but it's unique in the MMO genre and every nerf is an attempt to kill it off. It's why I stand against it, because I want more opportunities to interact with other players, not more opportunities to simply ignore them. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:59:59 - [995] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: ~list of consequences~ Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable. We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there is 50 pages of content right. Why are these consequences for ganking not adequate? Taking into account the game lore, the game premise, the long standing history of the game and the fact that it is a game; what metric of justice are you using? Thats like me asking you why are they enough? Please explain in 10 more posts with walls of text.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:01:28 - [996] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit. As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec. And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity. Really? You're really advocating this argument right here? Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it. But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable. Quote: And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal? Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway? Quote: Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go. A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention. His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle. (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights. The freighter falls. A flurry of activity ensues. High alpha antiganker ships attempt to blap the wreck before it gets looted, attempting to deny the gankers their spoils. They may also attempt to ninja loot. simultaneously, a 3rd party (or parties) arrive and attempt their own ninja loot - they don't care about the piracy or the drama, they simply spotted a chance for some easy loot. Services are offered to escort and protect freighters to prevent similar situations. Players share information about the current activity of known prolific gankers and whether or not known hotspots are camped. Alternative services such as JFs are offered (for a fee) to help freighter pilots out. The inevitable destruction of at least some of the loot means gaps in the market remain open, maintaining and possibly opening new trade opportunisties for entrepreneurs. All manner of player interaction can happen at any given gank. The mere possibility of their existence gives rise to player movements to hinder or help people on either side of the fight. These are all examples of player interaction, be it cooperative, competitive, combative or indirect. Adversity drives player interaction. In an MMO, particularly EVE who's strongest selling point is indeed the opportunity to interact with many thousands of other people through a space age dystopia; adversity creates opportunity for us to make friends and make enemies - who can later become our friends. These are awesome things to have in an MMO and player conflict is how EVE does it. It's not only awesome, but it's unique in the MMO genre and every nerf is an attempt to kill it off. It's why I stand against it, because I want more opportunities to interact with other players, not more opportunities to simply ignore them. you must be copy and pasting these silly pre-recorded responses... LUL
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:06:11 - [997] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable. It's fine as it's part of the game. If a freighter pilot do afk traveling or does it actively, shouldn't prevent the gankers for gaining more penalties the more they gank. Again, why are you bringing in things that has nothing to do with the criminal system on how that works against gankers? Are we talking about that or are we talking about being afk or not? Hiasa Kite wrote: Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway? It's not unnecessary when this only will go against those who do more gankings. Doing criminal acts alot shouldn't come cheap or easily. Do you understand that? Hiasa Kite wrote: A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention. That's correct. But like i have said, this has nothing to do with what you might find attractive to gank or not. This has only to do with how a system in EVE should treat gankers or criminal players who break the rules of high sec. The fact that you haven't figured this out yet is amusing. Hiasa Kite wrote: His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle. Because a nano / bumping Machariel is extremely fast to bump a big ass freighter out of allignment? I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Hiasa Kite wrote: (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights........................... And alot of other nonsense that has nothing to do with how the criminal system against criminals should work independent of what you gank or how you gank. Yes, read over what i have said. You are not getting the point and are trolling by bringing in other nonsense crap that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Go troll elsewhere. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:11:39 - [998] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:13:25 - [999] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Intel via in-game and 3rd party resources, scouts, web escorts, military/logi/ECM support, breaking the cargo down into smaller, more manageable chunks, alternate routes including LoSec and the use of jump freighters to traverse if necessary, subcontracting to another freighter if you feel you're not prepared to deal with the risks. Our cup runneth over. So again, the freighter pilots has to work their asses off while you as a ganker can just warp into the targets and do your job without any more work than that? Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill. You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio. Quote: The fact that you think that's fair says all about you. You are a massive ganker that knows how easy and how much you gains by doing it and does everything to defend against, because it makes you work for your actions. You know the fun thing about ad hominem? It's the admission you don't actually have an argument so your best fallback is to attempt to discredit the opposition. I don't gank. This is my only account, this is my main and the only character I use in space. The other two character slots are a trade alt in Jita and Dodixie and I barely use them because I just don't find trading to be all that fun. Quote: As i have said earlier, having an alt with a webber is not going to prevent the freighter from dying if some gankers really want that freighter dead as they will have multiple bumping Machariels pleaced out in every directions that will try to bump the freighters out of allignment in few seconds. How do the gankers know they really want that freighter dead? The contract it's carrying wasn't picked up by that character, it was subcontracted from another. As a result, it's double-wrapped, so can't be scanned. The pilot hasn't blabbed to anyone about what he's carrying or where he's going. So how do the gankers know that the freighter in question is one they just want, really, really bad and how do they know where to go to ensure they can catch it? Quote: Again, you are making no sense as you aren't discussing the actual issue of how easy the criminals can get away with doing ganks. I'm responding to your posts. You're posting some pretty inaccurate stuff and are drawing flawed conclusions as a result. My responses are attempting to clear them up for you. "If you want to have a discussion, then talk about what the case is about. And the case is giving criminals a system that makes them work harder for doing criminal acts. That's all." OK. Why do criminals need to work harder for doing criminal acts? "Being greedy has nothing to do with how criminals should be treated." Correct. So why do you keep trying to argue that criminals are making too much money when the cause of that issue is the greed of the players they kill? "Ofc ganks always will be there. But ganks shouldn't come without penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think about those things before they do a gank." Obligatory: Why? "And lastly. I have explained you in highly details on why criminals should be treated as crininals and not like a '15 minute naughty boy' as you do now." No, you really haven't. I have asked, over and over to explain WHY you have come to the conclusion that criminal behaviour needs to be treated more harshly only for you to answer that criminal behaviour should be treated more harshly. Simply repeating your opinion does nothing to explain why you have it. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:15:09 - [1000] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed.

Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:17:10 - [1001] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Depending on circumstances, gankers have 2 - 24 seconds to complete their gank from the instant they open fire. Faction police do not impose this limit, CONCORD do and this limit cannot be evaded (doing so is an actionable offence). Faction Police are the ones who pursue in system based on security status. The issue arises when you have maxed out your security status and you can still warp around, trailing faction police around in Highsec all day long if you desire. Once you go forth with a gank, CONCORD comes in and wrecks, essentially rendering Faction Police useless against "career gankers" who do nothing else but gank all-day everyday every 15min. They are not prevented for staging right in jita so that they can purchase and manufacture new gank ships without every having to jump one gate with their freighter who travels to 4-4 for materials. Faction Police aren't intended to stop gankers from playing the game. They're there to prevent them from doing anything but flying around and ganking. That's the entirety of their purpose and it's a stupid one. If gankers could reship and attempt to run some missions, for example, then other players would have opportunity to get some revenge for earlier transgressions, causing the ganker potentially substantial loss. The solution to your issue with ganking isn't to buff the likes of FacPo, but to nerf or even remove them. Instead of trying to make mechanical fixes to a non-issue, create opportunities for gankers' victims to actually get some meaningful revenge. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Ajem Hinken Quaice Industries 35	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:17:24 - [1002] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed. Consider a t-lock from outside your fleet illegal aggression then and we'd be good. I know a lot of people like to creep me out by t-locking me and then sitting right behind me while I'm scanning. When they can see I have railguns for defense. Now you understand why.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:17:29 - [1003] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Care to prove that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:17:56 - [1004] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Why are these consequences for ganking not adequate? Taking into account the game lore, the game premise, the long standing history of the game and the fact that it is a game; what metric of justice are you using? Thats like me asking you why are they enough? Please explain in 10 more posts with walls of text. I can do it one. Hisec is the highest population area in the game, at its base security level it's pretty safe when compared to the base state of other areas. The list of consequences that you so blithely dismissed is harsh enough that all but a very small minority risk incurring them. Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong. That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:19:32 - [1005] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Faction Police aren't intended to stop gankers from playing the game. They're there to prevent them from doing anything but flying around and ganking. That's the entirety of their purpose and it's a stupid one. If gankers could reship and attempt to run some missions, for example, then other players would have opportunity to get some revenge for earlier transgressions, causing the ganker potentially substantial loss. The solution to your issue with ganking isn't to buff the likes of FacPo, but to nerf or even remove them. Instead of trying to make mechanical fixes to a non-issue, create opportunities for gankers' victims to actually get some meaningful revenge. No ganker is going to stop to go do some mission running in Highsec ... lol, you are a funny guy.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:20:37 - [1006] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill. You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio. LOL, the fact that you don't know that this system should be there to determine your success rate of doing the actual ganking is the whole point. If you want to have it easy ganking others alot of times, then you should work much more for it. If you don't work for your criminal actions, then you shouldn't expect to get a free pass into high sec easily. And the rest of you whining / crying is something i'm gonna ignore, because i have answered it a million times already. You don't even know what we are talking about, so no suprises there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:22:05 - [1007] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong. That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them. Gankers destroy more isk in Highsec alone than all of Black Rise on a given day where there are no major cap battles down in lowsec. Highsec is supposed to be safer than lowsec, yet it is not.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:24:41 - [1008] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary. It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Obligatory: Why? Quote: Hiasa Kite wrote: The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former. Yes, the Concord timer is something CCP controls. And they also are the ones who are the ones who can change that for the better if there are many ideas on how to improve it, like this topic is meant for in the first place. "You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former." -"OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec. No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all." -"LOL, you didn't even give me an argument on why i was wrong on that one. Does that mean i'm right that the current penalties has no effects on punishing the gankers enough?" You've missed the point. Ganking penalties don't exist to prevent chain ganking (save for the 15 minute crim timer, ofc), it exists to provide players with a reason NOT to kill that random guy they spotted at the gate. Take a look around next time you're in HiSec. You'll see systems with dozens, hundreds of players happily sitting next to each other not killing each other - or doing much interaction at all, to be frank. You have CONCORD to thank for that, plus the associated punishments for ganking. If they were as ineffective as you claim, the systems of HiSec would be a lot less crowded and a lot more violent. "Ganking is fine which this topic clearly states. But because you are stubborn and can't read, you still haven't figured out that this topic and what i'm saying has nothing to do with the actual ganking in itself, but what kind of penalties and consequences the actual players that DOES a criminal act or ganking should face AFTER the intital ganking has happened." Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..." "Do you even read bro?" Do you? Moreover, do you think about why such a statement is mocked? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:30:44 - [1009] - Quote NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Care to prove that? Time to get a freighter into warp using duel webs is 2-3 seconds. Time to spool up the MWD on the mach and get up to speed tends to take little over one cycle of the MWD which is 10 seconds. That does not include the few seconds to align the battleship towards the freighter. This also assumes the battleship is within 10km of the target which is rarely will be. Distance can be anything up to 40km so times can and will be far higher to get a bump.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:30:54 - [1010] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary. It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Obligatory: Why? Quote: Hiasa Kite wrote: The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former. Yes, the Concord timer is something CCP controls. And they also are the ones who are the ones who can change that for the better if there are many ideas on how to improve it, like this topic is meant for in the first place. "You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former." -"OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec. No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all." -"LOL, you didn't even give me an argument on why i was wrong on that one. Does that mean i'm right that the current penalties has no effects on punishing the gankers enough?" You've missed the point. Ganking penalties don't exist to prevent chain ganking (save for the 15 minute crim timer, ofc), it exists to provide players with a reason NOT to kill that random guy they spotted at the gate. Take a look around next time you're in HiSec. You'll see systems with dozens, hundreds of players happily sitting next to each other not killing each other - or doing much interaction at all, to be frank. You have CONCORD to thank for that, plus the associated punishments for ganking. If they were as ineffective as you claim, the systems of HiSec would be a lot less crowded and a lot more violent. "Ganking is fine which this topic clearly states. But because you are stubborn and can't read, you still haven't figured out that this topic and what i'm saying has nothing to do with the actual ganking in itself, but what kind of penalties and consequences the actual players that DOES a criminal act or ganking should face AFTER the intital ganking has happened." Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..." "Do you even read bro?" Do you? Moreover, do you think about why such a statement is mocked? report this guy for continually including random copy and paste text in his posts. Admins will eventually remove him.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:32:53 - [1011] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Care to prove that? Time to get a freighter into warp using duel webs is 2-3 seconds. Time to spool up the MWD on the mach and get up to speed tends to take little over one cycle of the MWD which is 10 seconds. That does not include the few seconds to align the battleship towards the freighter. This also assumes the battleship will with within 10km of the target which is rarely will be. Distance can be anything up to 40km so times can and will be far higher to get a bump. So now freighters need two webs ... next its will be three webs and a fleet for protection.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:35:11 - [1012] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: So now freighters need two webs ... next its will be three webs and a fleet for protection. You can fit multiple webs to a single ship. Do you seriously need to be told these things?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 74	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:37:32 - [1013] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: So now freighters need two webs ... next its will be three webs and a fleet for protection. You can fit multiple webs to a single ship. Do you seriously need to be told these things? Yeah, and when I get ganked still .... You shouldnt have put all your webs on one ships right....
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:40:08 - [1014] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Obligatory: Why? Because. It's been explained several times already. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you just because you are lazy reading what i have said. And again, the rest of your wall of text is nothing more than a lame try to sidetrack what my whole point is, so i'm not gonna bother to answer you more than this because you don't get my points in the first place. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:40:19 - [1015] - Quote NightmareX wrote: It's the hard facts that losing a cheap Destroyer and only gets a 15 minute waiting timer isn't considered a punishment for the types of objectives they have. "It's the hard facts [...] isn't considered." In. Your. Motherhumping. Opinion. Quote: Not even the fact that everyone can shoot you for 15 minutes Criminals (-5.0 and lower) can be aggressed AT ANY TIME, not just after a gank. Quote: either isn't going to make the ganking in it self ANY harder at all, because no one is going to ever catch you in 99.9% of all times you undock and before you do the actial ganking. The only thing that works against the gankers are the 15 minute Concord timer which again is way to little risk compared to what you gain. And competence. Don't forget competence. A competent pilot seldom dies to ganks. "I have given an idea on a system that you barely have been able to counter argument against." You haven't even established a need for the system to exist. We'll get to the flaws with the system once we establish a need exists, first. "You use a lame and aggressive tone in your discussion here and drags in tons of other things that has nothing to do with the penalties that a criminal should face for doing more and more crimes that is the ONLY thing i'm talking about." Obligatory: Why? "My evidences are in what i'm saying about how criminals should be treated as." That's not evidence, that's opinion. Your inability to tell objective fact from opinion is worrying. "[i]A criminal shouldn't just be a naughty boy for 15 minutes and then be back doing same crimes over and over without facing more penalties." Obligatory: Why? "[i]It's logic that criminals will face harsher penalties the more crimes they do. It's normal practice to do against criminals." Holy skeezballs, he's attempting to rationalise. After 3 pages over the last couple hours maybe we can start conversing. In real life, dear, in real life. This is a computer game, one that is balanced around the possibility of conflict. The OP demands that ganks be way, way more profitable in order to pay for the tags necessary to make the mandatory sec status repairs. Let's say you're repairing sec status for 20mil per gank (I'm not familiar with these prices, so correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm lowballing) and you've called in 20 people for a gank on a freighter. That means the gank costs 400 million across the fleet to pay for its own sec status repair. That means the freighter can now safely carry an extra 800million before becoming profitable to gank - when considering destroyer fleets (but have the lowest cost threshold). The OP's suggestion significantly increases the safety level for freighters because... You know what? We're back at that question again, aren't we? Why? Why is this change necessary? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:41:56 - [1016] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Not bad. you forgot about the drop in sec status becoming being shoot on sight due to it, and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 2.5/10 for including a partial truth. A drop in sec status wont prevent you in ANY types of form from undocking a new ship and gank someone with a small ship. Sec status doesn't matter in this case. Again, you should work more for your criminal acts. Obligatory: Why? Obligatory: If criminal punishments are so ineffective, why isn't HiSec a much more violent place? Quote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's? No, it's a fact that a 15 minute naughty boy timer should be more than just that when you as a ganker don't gain ANY penalties what so ever for what you are doing except for a 15 minute waiting game which isn't a penalty in the first place for you. In your opinion. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:43:30 - [1017] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Time to get a freighter into warp using duel webs is 2-3 seconds. Time to spool up the MWD on the mach and get up to speed tends to take little over one cycle of the MWD which is 10 seconds. That does not include the few seconds to align the battleship towards the freighter. This also assumes the battleship is within 10km of the target which is rarely will be. Distance can be anything up to 40km so times can and will be far higher to get a bump. Did you know that a bumping Machariel can use several tries to bump a freighter by just following him for several jumps hoping to land more nearer him when he uncloaks? And if you land 4km from him when he uncloaks, it's game over for him no matter how many webbers or alts you have with you to protect him. So again, a Machariel is all that's needed to ruin a freighter pilot for doing his job. And when you also takes into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there, then yeah, it's a mess for the freighter pilots. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:43:55 - [1018] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Yeah, and when I get ganked still .... You shouldnt have put all your webs on one ships right.... Do you even play this game?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18721	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:48:46 - [1019] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Did you know that a bumping Machariel can use several tries to bump a freighter by just following him for several jumps hoping to land more nearer him when he uncloaks? Could but they don't. There is a reason why almost all freighter ganks happen in just a handful of systems. NightmareX wrote: And if you land 4km from him when he uncloaks, it's game over for him no matter how many webbers or alts you have with you to protect him. So rare it might as well not happen. Its akin to not being able to cloak because that one ship on gate is withing 2km NightmareX wrote: So again, a Machariel is all that's needed to ruin a freighter pilot for doing his job. And when you also takes into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there, then yeah, it's a mess for the freighter pilots. I literally just told you how this isn't true.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:49:34 - [1020] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable. It's fine as it's part of the game. If a freighter pilot do afk traveling or does it actively, shouldn't prevent the gankers for gaining more penalties the more they gank. Again, why are you bringing in things that has nothing to do with the criminal system on how that works against gankers? Are we talking about that or are we talking about being afk or not? You make a flawed argument, I point out said flaw. In this case, you're trying to reinforce your opinion by stating that ganking is easy. The two-part counter being that 1: So is avoiding ganks and 2: Almost everything in EVE can be considered easy. "It's not unnecessary when this only will go against those who do more gankings. Doing criminal acts alot shouldn't come cheap or easily. Do you understand that?" Yes, I understand that. My question is an obligatory: Why? Hiasa Kite wrote: A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention. "That's correct. But like i have said, this has nothing to do with what you might find attractive to gank or not. This has only to do with how a system in EVE should treat gankers or criminal players who break the rules of high sec." It's a hypothetical scenario. I'm explaining that loads of player activity erupts from adversity. When the game isn't easy, when we can actually fail at the things we try to do and in our times of need, we turn to others for help. EVE gives us these challenges by way of asymmetric non-consensual player-driven combat. You asked me why I felt nerfs to non-consensual PvP was a bad thing. That was my answer. Why are you asking me these questions then berating me for going off-topic? Moreover, why are you accusing me of even going off-topic when I'm countering the notion that we need a change such as that laid out by the OP? <^.^> I'm a cat lol

Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:50:37 - [1021] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed. Obligatory: Why? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:52:05 - [1022] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Faction Police aren't intended to stop gankers from playing the game. They're there to prevent them from doing anything but flying around and ganking. That's the entirety of their purpose and it's a stupid one. If gankers could reship and attempt to run some missions, for example, then other players would have opportunity to get some revenge for earlier transgressions, causing the ganker potentially substantial loss. The solution to your issue with ganking isn't to buff the likes of FacPo, but to nerf or even remove them. Instead of trying to make mechanical fixes to a non-issue, create opportunities for gankers' victims to actually get some meaningful revenge. No ganker is going to stop to go do some mission running in Highsec ... lol, you are a funny guy. Source? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:53:00 - [1023] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill. You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio. LOL, the fact that you don't know that this system should be there to determine your success rate of doing the actual ganking is the whole point. If you want to have it easy ganking others alot of times, then you should work much more for it. If you don't work for your criminal actions, then you shouldn't expect to get a free pass into high sec easily. Obligatory: Why? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:54:54 - [1024] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Could but they don't. There is a reason why almost all freighter ganks happen in just a handful of systems. Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them? Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank. baltec1 wrote: So rare it might as well not happen. Its akin to not being able to cloak because that one ship on gate is withing 2km But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks. Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever. NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: I literally just told you how this isn't true. You just said it without provinding evidences on that. [quote=Hiasa Kite]Obligatory: Why? Because.................... Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:55:24 - [1025] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong. That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them. Gankers destroy more isk in Highsec alone than all of Black Rise on a given day where there are no major cap battles down in lowsec. Highsec is supposed to be safer than lowsec, yet it is not. If you need your proof, resort to zkill. Any statistician will tell you your data samples are completely different sizes. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:56:37 - [1026] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: report this guy for continually including random copy and paste text in his posts. Admins will eventually remove him. Are you talking about me or yourself? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:59:22 - [1027] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong. That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them. Gankers destroy more isk in Highsec alone than all of Black Rise on a given day where there are no major cap battles down in lowsec. Why is this? Might it be because people keep feeding them multi-billion isk loot pinata's? Stuff destroyed or looted is not a crime rate by the way. That's normally expressed as per 100,000 general population, and there's a real world calculation for it: Reported crimes/total population x100,000. For suicide ganking the crime rate would be the total number of ganks that Concord respond to (reported crimes, and they all get reported) in a time period, divided by the population of hisec (for arguments sake 60% of server population at any one time) x100,000. Quote: Highsec is supposed to be safer than lowsec, yet it is not. It is, the risk of getting suicide ganked is tiny for most, virtually nil for others. Unless you do something daft you're probably more likely to hit by a car crossing the street. Quote: If you need your proof, resort to zkill. At what data? The amount of freighters killed? or the amount of isk destroyed and looted? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18722	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:04:35 - [1028] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them? Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank. Seems you have no idea how system security works either. NightmareX wrote: But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks. Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever. Its also possible to slignshot a phoenix between a Fortizars towers and get it stuck there when you cyno in a gang of dreads. Its just not going to happen.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:04:56 - [1029] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Obligatory: Why? Because. It's been explained several times already. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you just because you are lazy reading what i have said. Wrong. You have stated your opinion several times already. Here's the basic gist of the conversation so far: YOU: Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Why have you come to that conclusion and why do you feel it would benefit the game? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Yes, I got that, but why? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Why? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly So, are we going to move on with this conversation or are you going to endless repeat your opinion, hoping to sway the denizens of F&I with zero substance? I'll clarify if that helps: A nerf to gankers, be it to force them to pay for sec status repairs or to force them to slow the rate at which thye suicide gank people will impact the overall rate that ganking occurs in HiSec. Some players will take the changes in stride and work harder for their ganks - just as you've proposed. However, there will be many other gankers that aren't willing to do the extra work for the same reward, reducing the overall ganking activity and making HiSec safer to some extent. The question raised by myself and others is: How does reducing the amount of ganking improve EVE Online? How does it make it more enjoyable for its current players (and as just about every suggestion goes) how does it encourage new players to join? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3791	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:07:32 - [1030] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed. They arent. The vast majority of freighters get through gank hot spots without a web escort. Some even get through whilst afk. Webbing is just something you can do that will make you pretty much ungankable. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:08:24 - [1031] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them? Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank. Seems you have no idea how system security works either. NightmareX wrote: But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks. Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever. Its also possible to slignshot a phoenix between a Fortizars towers and get it stuck there when you cyno in a gang of dreads. Its just not going to happen. If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time. So yes, i do know how system security works bro. And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3791	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:10:30 - [1032] - Quote More ganking means the game working better for everyone. So buff it. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:11:39 - [1033] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: More ganking means the game working better for everyone. So buff it. This thread has a winner. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:14:05 - [1034] - Quote NightmareX wrote: So yes, i do know how system security works You keep saying this, that doesn't make it true. You've yet to demonstrate that you understand the mechanics that you're suggesting CCP change, neither has your side kick, In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:14:08 - [1035] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: More ganking means the game working better for everyone. So buff it. Not without more penatlies or consequences the more you do it. No one is talking about making you do lesser ganks. We are only talking about making you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18722	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:14:12 - [1036] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No one is talking about making you do lesser ganks. When you lock people out of highsec that means less ganking. NightmareX wrote: If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time. So yes, i do know how system security works bro. So you just ignored what I said then, good to know. NightmareX wrote: And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there. Why is this change needed?
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:18:51 - [1037] - Quote baltec1 wrote: When you lock people out of highsec that means less ganking. So you get locked out of high sec for working harder the more ganks you do? Working harder for your crimes doesn't prevent you from entering any high sec systems at all. Or are you telling me that you are stupid and doesn't understand the difference from making things harder to lock something out? baltec1 wrote: So you just ignored what I said then, good to know. Says the smartass who are ignoring all of my points about the crime system on how it works and how it should be improved. baltec1 wrote: Why is this change needed? Because no risk = no reward & alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is and should be. Ganking has no risk in it's current form for what you do for the amount of reward you get. Thus it needs to be changed / improved for the better. Is there anything more you want to know? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 06:20:49 - [1038] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Says the smartass who are ignoring all of my points about the crime system on how it works and how it should be improved. You're not stating why it should be improved. We'll start discussing flaws when a need for such a system is established. Quote: baltec1 wrote: Why is this change needed? Because no risk = no reward & alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is and should be. Ganking has no risk in it's current form for what you do for the amount of reward you get. Thus it needs to be changed / improved for the better. "And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable." You're complaining that ganking is too profitable for the risk involved. On one hand you claim you're not interested in profitability, then you're trying to tell people you're trying to limit the profitability. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 06:25:15 - [1039] - Quote NightmareX wrote: If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time. So yes, i do know how system security works bro. And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there. Serious question here because trolling BS is a waste of time. If it "shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone", surely everyone also includes gankers? The mechanics should provide opportunities for everyone gankers and carebears alike. Why is it that only the carebear group matters? Doesn't seem much like everyone at all.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 55	Posted - 2017.03.02 08:16:30 - [1040] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Security standing hit for every target they kill No insurance payout for their ship loss 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk U made my day - especially the last what i bolded; So much "punishment" for ganking few freighters per day in 1-2 system (of milions gates hahaha) over and over - and u have to pay what... a penny?... How much u got ISK from ganking a freighters befor you hit a standing which doesn't let u park in a safespot with your ganking fleet? 10 Bilions? What is 300 mil in compare of your 10B; I can't get of feeling that Baltec1 is a massive troll out here;

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 55	Posted - 2017.03.02 08:18:13 - [1041] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: NightmareX wrote: And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there. Serious question here because trolling BS is a waste of time. If it "shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone", surely everyone also includes gankers? If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Simple - if one part of game is broken, then it should be ballanced; As other parts working fine or need their own threads (which there are many) for ballancing ideas; And btw u really think that ganking a freighters etc doesn't hit your gameplay? I do advice u to watch a butterly effect - there u can find an answer;
Specia1 K State War Academy Caldari State 295	Posted - 2017.03.02 08:23:02 - [1042] - Quote No, don't support this. And ffs, get your facts straight about Concord and FacPo...before you post. -1
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 82	Posted - 2017.03.02 08:35:58 - [1043] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Obligatory: Why? Because. It's been explained several times already. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you just because you are lazy reading what i have said. Wrong. You have stated your opinion several times already. Here's the basic gist of the conversation so far: YOU: Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Why have you come to that conclusion and why do you feel it would benefit the game? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Yes, I got that, but why? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly ME: Why? YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly So, are we going to move on with this conversation or are you going to endless repeat your opinion, hoping to sway the denizens of F&I with zero substance? I'll clarify if that helps: A nerf to gankers, be it to force them to pay for sec status repairs or to force them to slow the rate at which thye suicide gank people will impact the overall rate that ganking occurs in HiSec. Some players will take the changes in stride and work harder for their ganks - just as you've proposed. However, there will be many other gankers that aren't willing to do the extra work for the same reward, reducing the overall ganking activity and making HiSec safer to some extent. The question raised by myself and others is: How does reducing the amount of ganking improve EVE Online? How does it make it more enjoyable for its current players (and as just about every suggestion goes) how does it encourage new players to join? Ask the freighter pilots if it's fun losing freighters and especially jump freighters. Sure there is always a risk, but when you know that freighting pays **** and gankers are not ever prevented from endless ganking, it's gets not fun really fast. Now sure, if CCP wants to start handing out free Jump Freighter hulls, then by all means, gank away until your fingers fall off. This will never happen though which is why the rate a which a ganker can gank needs to be controlled.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 82	Posted - 2017.03.02 08:46:55 - [1044] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Please explain to me how you are claiming the risk is small. (Which it is) is not valid at all. I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone of this.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:01:30 - [1045] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Risk is small? Ask my pants how much **** they got every time when I jump even in orca/dst in uedama gates see that flashing reds all around and blue snowflakes just finishing to kill criminals; ... and another jf/f just died;
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3195	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:10:04 - [1046] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Please explain to me how you are claiming the risk is small. (Which it is) is not valid at all. I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone of this. He doesn't need to convince me. I know risk is objectively small. 1. CCP Quant's January numbers show 3.1T ISK in total destruction (not just ganked freighters; all destruction) in The Forge, while ~1970T ISK was transported in or out. That's means there is a maximum loss of 0.16% to gankers there and it must, in fact just be a fraction of that due to gankers only making up a portion of that destruction. 2. Red Frog Freight failed 0.11% of their contracts last year. That was for all reasons, not just ganking. I think flying a freighter with greater than 99.9% safety means the risk of losing one is small. In fact, I am surprised you don't agree. How safe do you think flying a freighter should be? 99.99%? 99.999%? At what point would you call the risk "small"? The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 84	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:39:35 - [1047] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: He doesn't need to convince me. I know risk is objectively small. 1. CCP Quant's January numbers show 3.1T ISK in total destruction (not just ganked freighters; all destruction) in The Forge, while ~1970T ISK was transported in or out. That's means there is a maximum loss of 0.16% to gankers there and it must, in fact just be a fraction of that due to gankers only making up a portion of that destruction. 2. Red Frog Freight failed 0.11% of their contracts last year. That was for all reasons, not just ganking. I think flying a freighter with greater than 99.9% safety means the risk of losing one is small. In fact, I am surprised you don't agree. How safe do you think flying a freighter should be? 99.99%? 99.999%? At what point would you call the risk "small"? The fact that I just saw you post in another thread saying that you are a career ganker ensures me that you don't need convincing either way. Why would it be in your best interest to say the risk is high. Gankers operate on the choke points from jita to amarr, not every gate in the whole region. Stop trying to inflate your numbers with unrelavant data. And this has no bearing on how much gankers are able to walk away with and destroy every 15min of the day in a never-ending loop without ever having to repair their security status. KARMAFleet has destroyed 5trillion in people's hard-earned isk that took some serious grinding while only losing 12 billion in cheap Gank ships was lost. The OP is attempting to limit this highly unbalanced isk grab that gankers are able to get away with in a never-ending loop. It's essentially cheap mode in terms of earning isk in-game.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:40:44 - [1048] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Simple - if one part of game is broken, then it should be ballanced; As other parts working fine or need their own threads (which there are many) for ballancing ideas; And btw u really think that ganking a freighters etc doesn't hit your gameplay? I do advice u to watch a butterly effect - there u can find an answer; I hope it does affect my gameplay. Where did I ever say it doesn't? That's what I enjoy about EVE. The challenge of everyone v everyone. But you didn't answer the question. That reply was just a typical whine about only one side needing change, which wasn't what was asked.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:44:36 - [1049] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Please explain to me how you are claiming the risk is small. (Which it is) is not valid at all. I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone of this. He doesn't need to convince me. I know risk is objectively small. 1. CCP Quant's January numbers show 3.1T ISK in total destruction (not just ganked freighters; all destruction) in The Forge, while ~1970T ISK was transported in or out. That's means there is a maximum loss of 0.16% to gankers there and it must, in fact just be a fraction of that due to gankers only making up a portion of that destruction. 2. Red Frog Freight failed 0.11% of their contracts last year. That was for all reasons, not just ganking. I think flying a freighter with greater than 99.9% safety means the risk of losing one is small. In fact, I am surprised you don't agree. How safe do you think flying a freighter should be? 99.99%? 99.999%? At what point would you call the risk "small"? Oh yeah it's safe right.. BTW ganking is so much efficient that ppl even work at 11 accounts to gank ships: Bowhead down Obelisk down Charon down All of that in one single day; 3.2B items dropped; 15 ships destroyed in uedama from a single "player" If you think it's normal ... go for a treatment.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 84	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:48:32 - [1050] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: In a balanced change, It can't be that only one side needs to be affected. If change is needed, then if you want to take something away from one side, you need to also offer them something else. That's how a balanced change works (and has been stated in similar terms by CCP Fozzie). If something is unbalanced, it is because one side is "heavier" than the other. This means to take some away form the "heavy" side and move it to the lighter side until there is balance. I habe no idea what you are even trying to claim with this stayement.

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:49:55 - [1051] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Please explain to me how you are claiming the risk is small. (Which it is) is not valid at all. I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone of this. I don't need to convince anyone, the data is freely available. It wasn't my claim. I just agreed with the statement made by NightmareX in this post. However, there is plenty of evidence available: http://red-frog.org/annual-report-2015.php It's all there is see and it's been discussed to death in the forums for the last couple of years.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:54:36 - [1052] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: In a balanced change, It can't be that only one side needs to be affected. If change is needed, then if you want to take something away from one side, you need to also offer them something else. That's how a balanced change works (and has been stated in similar terms by CCP Fozzie). If something is unbalanced, it is because one side is "heavier" than the other. This means to take some away form the "heavy" side and move it to the lighter side until there is balance. I habe no idea what you are even trying to claim with this stayement. People are claiming to be calling for 'balance', but they aren't. They are doing the typical, just asking for nerfs to one side. There has been no convincing evidence to show that things are in a bad place. Nothing that anyone can independently verify. All it's been is opinion and opinion is fine, but it doesn't mean anything. We are all entitled to our opinions. But if people are going to argue for change, then there needs to be evidence to make an argument for change, not just emotional statements that at their core are hypocritical. They are all based on a view that only some people have a right to choose how they want to play and others don't have an equal right. That's no basis for change.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 84	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:55:24 - [1053] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change. Please explain to me how you are claiming the risk is small. (Which it is) is not valid at all. I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone of this. I don't need to convince anyone, the data is freely available. It wasn't my claim. I just agreed with the statement made by NightmareX in this post. However, there is plenty of evidence available: http://red-frog.org/annual-report-2015.php It's all there is see and it's been discussed to death in the forums for the last couple of years. This has already been discussed and redfrogs reporting of data is not exactly fact. They can report whatever they want to report because their haulers done belong to any particular Corp. This is specifically to avoid war dec mechanics on their haulers. Why would people use redfrog if they reported high loss rates. You have no idea how factual that data really is.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 09:59:24 - [1054] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: But if people are going to argue for change, then there needs to be evidence to make an argument for change, not just emotional statements that at their core are hypocritical. They are all based on a view that only some people have a right to choose how they want to play and others don't have an equal right. That's no basis for change. THE fact that you won't even acknowledge the proof given by zkill is just baffling to me. 5 trillion to 12 billion is highly unbalanced no matter how you CUT it, and that's just KarmaFleet.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:00:01 - [1055] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: This has already been discussed and redfrogs reporting of data is not exactly fact. They can report whatever they want to report because their haulers done belong to any particular Corp. This is specifically to avoid war dec mechanics on their haulers. Why would people use redfrog if they reported high loss rates. You have no idea how factual that data really is. Then present counter evidence. If you want to claim the information on contracts presented in their annual reports is a lie, then there also has to be suspicion that it's being dismissed because it doesn't reinforce your own exisiting view. There's no evidence that the information is incorrect and it's only the hauling characters that are not in red frog. Every hauler has an aly in red frog that accepts the contract and then delivers the package at the other end. The figures on completed contracts are all in red frog records. I have an alt in red frog. I know how it works.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:00:52 - [1056] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Simple - if one part of game is broken, then it should be ballanced; As other parts working fine or need their own threads (which there are many) for ballancing ideas; And btw u really think that ganking a freighters etc doesn't hit your gameplay? I do advice u to watch a butterly effect - there u can find an answer; I hope it does affect my gameplay. Where did I ever say it doesn't? That's what I enjoy about EVE. The challenge of everyone v everyone. But you didn't answer the question. That reply was just a typical whine about only one side needing change, which wasn't what was asked. If you don't find the answer u like - I dont care about it; You got your answer it just doesn't suit you well.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:03:19 - [1057] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: BTW ganking is so much efficient that ppl even work at 11 accounts to gank ships: Bowhead down Obelisk down Charon down All of that in one single day; 3.2B items dropped; 15 ships destroyed in uedama from a single "player" If you think it's normal ... go for a treatment. AND btw - how do you think, how much that freigher pilot earn by a single trip - 100 mil? That means how many trips he have to do to repay for his ship, 10-20? How long it'll take - month? @Scipio Artelius Especially reposting this for you;
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:03:44 - [1058] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: But if people are going to argue for change, then there needs to be evidence to make an argument for change, not just emotional statements that at their core are hypocritical. They are all based on a view that only some people have a right to choose how they want to play and others don't have an equal right. That's no basis for change. THE fact that you won't even acknowledge the proof given by zkill is just baffling to me. 5 trillion to 12 billion is highly unbalanced no matter how you CUT it, and that's just KarmaFleet. Why is it unbalanced? Why is ISK value the measure of what is balanced? You can't patch stupid. The ISK value lost is 100% player controllable. It's not a game issue and just pointing at zkill isn't itself evidence. It's just a way of telling others to go look at things you think are already true. That isn't an argument. CCP Fozzie said it best here: "...we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance..." To keep things in balance....paired nerfs and buffs to keep things in balance. But all this thread is, is a call to nerf. No consideration that 'everyone' is equal, despite the statements above. There's no equality in it. It's a view that gank victims have more of a right to their style of play than gankers do, that they have no personal responsibility for their own loss and CCP should protect them.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:04:07 - [1059] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: This has already been discussed and redfrogs reporting of data is not exactly fact. They can report whatever they want to report because their haulers done belong to any particular Corp. This is specifically to avoid war dec mechanics on their haulers. Why would people use redfrog if they reported high loss rates. You have no idea how factual that data really is. Then present counter evidence. If you want to claim the information on contracts presented in their annual reports is a lie, then there also has to be suspicion that it's being dismissed because it doesn't reinforce your own exisiting view. There's no evidence that the information is incorrect and it's only the hauling characters that are not in red frog. Every hauler has an aly in red frog that accepts the contract and then delivers the package at the other end. The figures on completed contracts are all in red frog records. I have an alt in red frog. I know how it works. Sorry that's not how proof works. I only need to provide why it isn't factual and the rest is mute.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:07:15 - [1060] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sorry that's not how proof works. I only need to provide why it isn't factual and the rest is mute. Ok, then show that it isn't factual. Not opinion. Opinions mean nothing. My opinion means nothing. No one else's opinion means anything more. If you want to provide why it isn't factual, then provide that.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:09:47 - [1061] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: You can't patch stupid. The ISK value lost is 100% player controllable. It's not a game issue and just pointing at zkill isn't itself evidence. It's just a way of telling others to go look at things you think are already true. That isn't an argument. CCP Fozzie said it best here: "...we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance..." To keep things in balance....paired nerfs and buffs to keep things in balance. But all this thread is, is a call to nerf. No consideration that 'everyone' is equal, despite the statements above. AGAIN... The OP has nothing to do with the targets. It has to do with what mechanics criminals are able to avoid indefinitely in highsec space. Go back and read previous posts because you are arguing points that others have already posted a few times now.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:12:18 - [1062] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: You can't patch stupid. The ISK value lost is 100% player controllable. It's not a game issue and just pointing at zkill isn't itself evidence. It's just a way of telling others to go look at things you think are already true. That isn't an argument. CCP Fozzie said it best here: "...we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance..." To keep things in balance....paired nerfs and buffs to keep things in balance. But all this thread is, is a call to nerf. No consideration that 'everyone' is equal, despite the statements above. AGAIN... The OP has nothing to do with the targets. It has to do with what mechanics criminals are able to avoid indefinitely in highsec space. Go back and read previous posts because you are arguing points that others have already posted a few times now. Then why are you claiming ISK value as the issue? Right here, in the post that I responded to: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856470#post6856470
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:15:15 - [1063] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sorry that's not how proof works. I only need to provide why it isn't factual and the rest is mute. Ok, then show that it isn't factual. Not opinion. Opinions mean nothing. My opinion means nothing. No one else's opinion means anything more. If you want to provide why it isn't factual, then provide that. Simple, it's not VERIFYABLE ilinformation that comes from an official source (CCP). Now if redfrogs operated under one corp, you would be able to easily use zkill to determine which freighter loses belong to them... but they don't so ...sorry!!!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:16:05 - [1064] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: If you don't find the answer u like - I dont care about it; You got your answer it just doesn't suit you well. Not at all. I assume English is not your first language, so I'm sure you think you answered the question asked, but it wasn't what was asked. Just to repeat it: If it "shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone", surely everyone also includes gankers? Your answer didn't address that at all. It's pretty simple and straight forward, but a reply of: Simple - if one part of game is broken, then it should be ballanced; Has nothing to do with whether gankers are part of the 'everyone' that the game should work for.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:19:50 - [1065] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: You can't patch stupid. The ISK value lost is 100% player controllable. It's not a game issue and just pointing at zkill isn't itself evidence. It's just a way of telling others to go look at things you think are already true. That isn't an argument. CCP Fozzie said it best here: "...we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance..." To keep things in balance....paired nerfs and buffs to keep things in balance. But all this thread is, is a call to nerf. No consideration that 'everyone' is equal, despite the statements above. AGAIN... The OP has nothing to do with the targets. It has to do with what mechanics criminals are able to avoid indefinitely in highsec space. Go back and read previous posts because you are arguing points that others have already posted a few times now. Then why are you claiming ISK value as the issue? Right here, in the post that I responded to: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856470#post6856470 It's not the issue, but it does support and back up the claimed issue.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:22:00 - [1066] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Simple, it's not VERIFYABLE ilinformation that comes from an official source (CCP). Now if redfrogs operated under one corp, you would be able to easily use zkill to determine which freighter loses belong to them... but they don't so ...sorry!!! Ok, I'll stop that line there. It's obvious that there is no way to provide proof that it isn't factual. Saying it isn't verifiable isn't proof that it's wrong. It's a suspicion, which is also fine, but it's doesn't provide that the information from red frog isn't fact. It could well be fact, but since you can't verify it, you would prefer to dismiss it. That's fine and everyone has a right to their own beliefs. So there is no point continuing down that line.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:25:15 - [1067] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Simple, it's not VERIFYABLE ilinformation that comes from an official source (CCP). Now if redfrogs operated under one corp, you would be able to easily use zkill to determine which freighter loses belong to them... but they don't so ...sorry!!! Ok, I'll stop that line there. It's obvious that there is no way to provide proof that it isn't factual. Saying it isn't verifiable isn't proof that it's wrong. It's a suspicion, which is also fine, but it's doesn't provide that the information from red frog isn't fact. It could well be fact, but since you can't verify it, you would prefer to dismiss it. That's fine and everyone has a right to their own beliefs. So there is no point continuing down that line. Again, that's not how it works...lol
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3195	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:25:30 - [1068] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Gankers operate on the choke points from jita to amarr, not every gate in the whole region. Stop trying to inflate your numbers with unrelavant data. And this has no bearing on how much gankers are able to walk away with and destroy every 15min of the day in a never-ending loop without ever having to repair their security status. KARMAFleet has destroyed 5trillion in people's hard-earned isk that took some serious grinding while only losing 12 billion in cheap Gank ships was lost. The OP is attempting to limit this highly unbalanced isk grab that gankers are able to get away with in a never-ending loop. It's essentially cheap mode in terms of earning isk in-game. There is no inflation. You can take any of the highsec regions and divide the destruction by the amount of goods transported and get a number that is a fraction of a percent. Let me answer my question for you. The answer is zero. You will not think flying a freighter is "safe enough" until the number of suicide ganks in highsec is zero. You have a moral problem with players taking other players "hard-earned isk" through criminal actions and it bothers you so much, you cannot accept it happening once to another player, no matter little effort that player made to defend themselves, or how much effort a large group of players spent to take their stuff. That's fine. You can subscribe to whatever moral code you wish. However it points the fundamental problem that this is intended gameplay. It always has been, and always will be. You are intended to be able to get ahead in this game by "hard work" and grinding, or by taking resources from other players by force. While I find your emotionally-driven and belligerent flailing about all over the forums, reddit and Facebook amusing, I see no happy outcome for you. Criminals are intended to ply the trade lanes of New Eden, taking the "hard-earned isk" of the weak, complacent, lazy and incompetent through piracy. It is an intended profession. Sure, specific aspects of game play have and will need to be balanced, but that is not ever going to include locking players out from the profession or making it impossible to repeatedly attack other players, no matter how loud and hard you whine or beg CCP. I am so sorry for you. Did you ever consider you might just be playing the wrong game? I hear Elite Dangerous has a mode where you can turn off your PvP flag and get the 100% safety you seem to be craving? In any case, this is going nowhere. I will again ignore this thread and watch it fade into the dustbin of history along with all the other one begging CCP to make highsec safe. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:27:50 - [1069] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: It's not the issue, but it does support and back up the claimed issue. It doesn't though. Players can already completely eliminate the issue of value. It's 100% within player control. That's not a game mechanics issue. It's purely a player issue. If I put 30 PLEX in a shuttle and then get ganked on the Jita undock by a Tornado, the ganker loses 100 million ISK ship, but my killmail would still be 30 Billion. That's so unbalanced. 100 million lost. 30 Billion killed. Yet, the only thing required to prevent that is for me to not undock with 30 PLEX in my cargo in a shuttle. Then he loses 100 million for a 10K killmail. The whole balance issue is flipped, simply by how I act. There is nothing in the mechanics that can prevent my behaviour there. The only person who can change that ISK ratio is me. Unfortunately, that is the type of thing that happens every day (not necessarily with PLEX, though that happens regularly). People are the issue when it comes to ISK ratios. They are completely irrelevant as a game balsance issue when talking about player actions.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:33:58 - [1070] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Gankers operate on the choke points from jita to amarr, not every gate in the whole region. Stop trying to inflate your numbers with unrelavant data. And this has no bearing on how much gankers are able to walk away with and destroy every 15min of the day in a never-ending loop without ever having to repair their security status. KARMAFleet has destroyed 5trillion in people's hard-earned isk that took some serious grinding while only losing 12 billion in cheap Gank ships was lost. The OP is attempting to limit this highly unbalanced isk grab that gankers are able to get away with in a never-ending loop. It's essentially cheap mode in terms of earning isk in-game. There is no inflation. You can take any of the highsec regions and divide the destruction by the amount of goods transported and get a number that is a fraction of a percent. Let me answer my question for you. The answer is zero. You will not think flying a freighter is "safe enough" until the number of suicide ganks in highsec is zero. You have a moral problem with players taking other players "hard-earned isk" through criminal actions and it bothers you so much, you cannot accept it happening once to another player, no matter little effort that player made to defend themselves, or how much effort a large group of players spent to take their stuff. That's fine. You can subscribe to whatever moral code you wish. However it points the fundamental problem that this is intended gameplay. It always has been, and always will be. You are intended to be able to get ahead in this game by "hard work" and grinding, or by taking resources from other players by force. While I find your emotionally-driven and belligerent flailing about all over the forums, reddit and Facebook amusing, I see no happy outcome for you. Criminals are intended to ply the trade lanes of New Eden, taking the "hard-earned isk" of the weak, complacent, lazy and incompetent through piracy. It is an intended profession. Sure, specific aspects of game play have and will need to be balanced, but that is not ever going to include locking players out from the profession or making it impossible to repeatedly attack other players, no matter how loud and hard you whine or beg CCP. I am so sorry for you. Did you ever consider you might just be playing the wrong game? I hear Elite Dangerous has a mode where you can turn off your PvP flag and get the 100% safety you seem to be craving? In any case, this is going nowhere. I will again ignore this thread and watch it fade into the dustbin of history along with all the other one begging CCP to make highsec safe. O/ - don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:34:38 - [1071] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Again, that's not how it works...lol OK. Then if you want to continue down that line, then explain how proof works. From what I have seen above, you don't seem to understand what a proof actually is. That's not criticism, just a limitation of this sort of discussion on an internet forum.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:36:10 - [1072] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not the issue, but it does support and back up the claimed issue. It doesn't though. Players can already completely eliminate the issue of value. It's 100% within player control. That's not a game mechanics issue. It's purely a player issue. If I put 30 PLEX in a shuttle and then get ganked on the Jita undock by a Tornado, the ganker loses 100 million ISK ship, but my killmail would still be 30 Billion. That's so unbalanced. 100 million lost. 30 Billion killed. Yet, the only thing required to prevent that is for me to not undock with 30 PLEX in my cargo in a shuttle. Then he loses 100 million for a 10K killmail. The whole balance issue is flipped, simply by how I act. There is nothing in the mechanics that can prevent my behaviour there. The only person who can change that ISK ratio is me. Unfortunately, that is the type of thing that happens every day (not necessarily with PLEX, though that happens regularly). People are the issue when it comes to ISK ratios. They are completely irrelevant as a game balsance issue when talking about player actions. Please don't jump back on the ... It's the freighter guy's fault train. We have beat that claim to death in this thread.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 87	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:37:52 - [1073] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Again, that's not how it works...lol OK. Then if you want to continue down that line, then explain how proof works. From what I have seen above, you don't seem to understand what a proof actually is. That's not criticism, just a limitation of this sort of discussion on an internet forum. I would beg to differ, my computer science and engineering degree suggests I do thoroughly understand how proof works.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:41:01 - [1074] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Again, that's not how it works...lol OK. Then if you want to continue down that line, then explain how proof works. From what I have seen above, you don't seem to understand what a proof actually is. That's not criticism, just a limitation of this sort of discussion on an internet forum. I would beg to differ, my computer science and engineering degree suggests I do thoroughly understand how proof works. So explain it. There's no need for a pissing contest over who's epeen is bigger. Claiming you know what a proof is because of degrees doesn't prove anything. If you can explain how a proof works though, then we'll have a basis to compare that against the above choice when it comes to the Red Frog data (and see the edit to my post above).
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47137	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:44:28 - [1075] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Please don't jump back on the ... It's the freighter guy's fault train. We have beat that claim to death in this thread. It's impossible to discuss things sometimes. Where have I claimed it is the Freighter guys fault? Quote the exact part where I say that. It's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the issue of ISK value is not a balance issue because it's totally controllable by players, irrespective of what CCP do. CCP can't balance the game around my choices. That doesn't mean anything is anyone's fault. It's just not a mechanics issue. This is unfortunately going nowhere fast, because it doesn't matter what is actually written, interpretations will see whatever someone else wants to see, even things not said. So good luck. -1 for me on this change. There just hasn't been a good argument put in this thread to show that this change is needed.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 493	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:53:52 - [1076] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Security standing hit for every target they kill No insurance payout for their ship loss 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk U made my day - especially the last what i bolded; So much "punishment" for ganking few freighters per day in 1-2 system (of milions gates hahaha) over and over - and u have to pay what... a penny?... How much u got ISK from ganking a freighters befor you hit a standing which doesn't let u park in a safespot with your ganking fleet? 10 Bilions? What is 300 mil in compare of your 10B; I can't get of feeling that Baltec1 is a massive troll out here; If you're killing freighters, it's not unusual to be doing it alongside twenty other people, all taking sec huts that need repair. So now, the bill is 6bil. Think before you post, you'll save yourself a lot of embarrassment. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 10:57:20 - [1077] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: If you don't find the answer u like - I dont care about it; You got your answer it just doesn't suit you well. Not at all. I assume English is not your first language, so I'm sure you think you answered the question asked, but it wasn't what was asked. Just to repeat it (from a quote of NightmareX): If it "shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone", surely everyone also includes gankers? Your answer didn't address that at all. It's pretty simple and straight forward, but a reply of: Simple - if one part of game is broken, then it should be ballanced; Has nothing to do with whether gankers are part of the 'everyone' that the game should work for. Thank you for being kind about language; About your question (where I already gave u an answer) - let me point something; There are barelly non fixes which touch EVERYONE; In example I advice you to check the March incoming changes; Do they ballance everyone or only some group? Of course they will have an impact for EVERYONE same as proposed changes in this thread.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 11:00:04 - [1078] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: If I put 30 PLEX in a shuttle and then get ganked on the Jita undock by a Tornado, the ganker loses 100 million ISK ship, but my killmail would still be 30 Billion. That would only mean you are a RTM trader ;) as no one is stupid enough to do it "as normal gameplaying"
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18723	Posted - 2017.03.02 11:07:00 - [1079] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Oh yeah it's safe right.. BTW ganking is so much efficient that ppl even work at 11 accounts to gank ships: Bowhead down Obelisk down Charon down All of that in one single day; 3.2B items dropped; If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Naye Nathaniel wrote: 15 ships destroyed in uedama from a single "player" If you think it's normal ... go for a treatment. 15 out of how many thousands that travel through that gate? Naye Nathaniel wrote: AND btw - how do you think, how much that freigher pilot earn by a single trip - 100 mil? That means how many trips he have to do to repay for his ship, 10-20? How long it'll take - month? How much do you think my freighters has earned me over the last 7 years doing 4 trips to jita a week?
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3664	Posted - 2017.03.02 11:59:21 - [1080] - Quote 54 pages and all just because he is too butthurt to purchase a mining permit for only 10mil ISK.... the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 960	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:05:42 - [1081] - Quote Hey Erich Do you still think people agree with you? Because all I see is people wrecking you hahahaha And like Ima said, all these pages for a lack of a permit Gotta love carebears P.s. no one in Black Rise cares who you are, and no one cares about your twitch either Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:08:14 - [1082] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;]
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:09:36 - [1083] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Hey Erich Do you still think people agree with you? Because all I see is people wrecking you hahahaha And like Ima said, all these pages for a lack of a permit Gotta love carebears P.s. no one in Black Rise cares who you are, and no one cares about your twitch either I love when a butthead trying to speach for "others";
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 960	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:11:12 - [1084] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] Since when is webbing an exploit?! Hahahahah Does that mean every pvp'er ever is exploiting the game? And definitely a miner if you say you aren't.... So miner, calm down Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 394	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:12:25 - [1085] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] Webbing a ship so it can warp faster is neither a abusing a game mechanic nor an exploit. It is a perfectly viable tactic. Wormholer for life.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:12:59 - [1086] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] Since when is webbing an exploit?! Hahahahah Does that mean every pvp'er ever is exploiting the game? And definitely a miner if you say you aren't.... So miner, calm down I see another piece of Wood came here so his "friend" can feel an e-peen growing; blocked :)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27901	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:13:02 - [1087] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] You have no idea what an exploit is do you? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:14:58 - [1088] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] You have no idea what an exploit is do you? Show me a statment of CCP that say "We designed a WEB so you can WEB a freighter with your ALT so it can get in WARP faster" - if not then it's an exploit of the game mechanic;
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 960	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:15:50 - [1089] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] Since when is webbing an exploit?! Hahahahah Does that mean every pvp'er ever is exploiting the game? And definitely a miner if you say you aren't.... So miner, calm down I see another piece of Wood came here so his "friend" can feel an e-peen growing; blocked :) That's the easiest "block" I've managed to get hahahahah These guys are so easily triggered Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18725	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:24:37 - [1090] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Using webs is now an exploit? Citation required. Naye Nathaniel wrote: Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; I posted a list of all of the punishments and risks gankers face, ignoring it will not make it go away.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27902	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:29:32 - [1091] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Show me a statment of CCP that say "We designed a WEB so you can WEB a freighter with your ALT so it can get in WARP faster" - if not then it's an exploit of the game mechanic; If it's not listed on the Known & Declared Exploits page, it's not an exploit. Unintended, but not forbidden, use of game mechanics is classed as emergent gameplay, and CCP are big fans of it. Are you still telling people that normal gameplay may be against the EULA because you misunderstood a section of it? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3666	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:52:30 - [1092] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) here are two different types of behaviour in this game: 1) Clever use of existing game mechanics in a new and unintended way which makes you perform better in certain situations 2) Crying on the forums for CCPs help, because you fail even with the obvious game mechanics which one makes you a "pussy"? Let's vote the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 961	Posted - 2017.03.02 14:56:28 - [1093] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) here are two different types of behaviour in this game: 1) Clever use of existing game mechanics in a new and unintended way which makes you perform better in certain situations 2) Crying on the forums for CCPs help which one makes you a "pussy"? Let's vote Definitely #1 Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 57	Posted - 2017.03.02 15:20:35 - [1094] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) here are two different types of behaviour in this game: 1) Clever use of existing game mechanics in a new and unintended way which makes you perform better in certain situations 2) Crying on the forums for CCPs help, because you fail even with the obvious game mechanics which one makes you a "pussy"? Let's vote "Clever" use a game mechanic which is not designed to be used in such a way is not "clever" move but it's not allowed move ingame as far as owner of the game didnt say it is; And btw - go back to topic which is; "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3128	Posted - 2017.03.02 15:47:50 - [1095] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) I personally don't like how the web slingshot warp works but I'm not ridiculous enough to call it an exploit.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3128	Posted - 2017.03.02 15:56:02 - [1096] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) here are two different types of behaviour in this game: 1) Clever use of existing game mechanics in a new and unintended way which makes you perform better in certain situations 2) Crying on the forums for CCPs help, because you fail even with the obvious game mechanics which one makes you a "pussy"? Let's vote "Clever" use a game mechanic which is not designed to be used in such a way is not "clever" move but it's not allowed move ingame as far as owner of the game didnt say it is; Wrong. In this sandbox game, a move is allowed until the governing entity state otherwise. In this case, until CCP either change the mechanic to make web warping impossible or at least state that it is unintended and against the game rules, it is perfectly legitimate to use. This has been the way they handled any similar cases before. POS bowling for example was technically allowed until it was stated as illegal by CCP.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3666	Posted - 2017.03.02 16:12:17 - [1097] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings... I bet you can't even list the current game mechanics behind ganking the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 494	Posted - 2017.03.02 16:32:31 - [1098] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings... I bet you can't even list the current game mechanics behind ganking Is that really a bet? It's part of the definition of carebear to be utterly clueless about game mechanics isn't it. May as well bet if the sky is blue. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18726	Posted - 2017.03.02 17:28:34 - [1099] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings... I bet you can't even list the current game mechanics behind ganking Is that really a bet? It's part of the definition of carebear to be utterly clueless about game mechanics isn't it. May as well bet if the sky is blue. I have pointed them out to him several times but he still keeps on saying it
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 964	Posted - 2017.03.02 17:36:11 - [1100] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings... I bet you can't even list the current game mechanics behind ganking Is that really a bet? It's part of the definition of carebear to be utterly clueless about game mechanics isn't it. May as well bet if the sky is blue. I have pointed them out to him several times but he still keeps on saying it It's called the Backfire Effect. The more you prove them wrong, the more they believe they're right (It's an actual thing) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist

Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 496	Posted - 2017.03.02 17:45:44 - [1101] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: baltec1 wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: "Clever gangers" should "feel" pain of ganging others in high sec than just ticklings... I bet you can't even list the current game mechanics behind ganking Is that really a bet? It's part of the definition of carebear to be utterly clueless about game mechanics isn't it. May as well bet if the sky is blue. I have pointed them out to him several times but he still keeps on saying it It's called the Backfire Effect. The more you prove them wrong, the more they believe they're right (It's an actual thing) I've witnessed the effect, but never thought about it actually being studied. Pretty terrifying, really. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18726	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:02:42 - [1102] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: I've witnessed the effect, but never thought about it actually being studied. Pretty terrifying, really. That it is.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 964	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:03:18 - [1103] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: baltec1 wrote: I have pointed them out to him several times but he still keeps on saying it It's called the Backfire Effect. The more you prove them wrong, the more they believe they're right (It's an actual thing) I've witnessed the effect, but never thought about it actually being studied. Pretty terrifying, really. yeah same, I didn't even know it had a name until this very morning (ty Space Pope) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27906	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:10:01 - [1104] - Quote An interesting study would be to see who the backfire effect affects, and their MMO history. I think that some experience a huge culture shock when they start Eve, it's not what they know and shatters their preconceptions about playing games with other people, so it must be wrong. For myself, Eve is my first MMO. It's ruined me, I've tried others and find them unsatisfying; here I have everything to lose if I screw up, the other MMOs I've played don't provide any player driven challenges to how I want to play. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:15:25 - [1105] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Security standing hit for every target they kill No insurance payout for their ship loss 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk U made my day - especially the last what i bolded; So much "punishment" for ganking few freighters per day in 1-2 system (of milions gates hahaha) over and over - and u have to pay what... a penny?... How much u got ISK from ganking a freighters befor you hit a standing which doesn't let u park in a safespot with your ganking fleet? 10 Bilions? What is 300 mil in compare of your 10B; I can't get of feeling that Baltec1 is a massive troll out here; If you're killing freighters, it's not unusual to be doing it alongside twenty other people, all taking sec huts that need repair. So now, the bill is 6bil. Think before you post, you'll save yourself a lot of embarrassment. Hence, controlling the rate at which you gank. There are many players in lowsec who enjoying pvpng but don't really have the time to grind isk for the cost of ships that they use. They still find it completely worth it to buy a plea one or two times a month to avoid the grind needed to maintain the costs of what they find enjoyable. Why is it wrong to enforce this thing on career criminals as well.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:24:56 - [1106] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it...
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:27:29 - [1107] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: 54 pages and all just because he is too butthurt to purchase a mining permit for only 10mil ISK.... I stole a bunch of mining permits from Kushion when I stole 95% of all his isk for three days straight in Uedama. Trust me, I'm good on mining permits.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:29:00 - [1108] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Hey Erich Do you still think people agree with you? Because all I see is people wrecking you hahahaha And like Ima said, all these pages for a lack of a permit Gotta love carebears P.s. no one in Black Rise cares who you are, and no one cares about your twitch either Obviously you do or you wouldn't be trying to bash it so much...
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 964	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:30:06 - [1109] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... He does 12 toons in compliance with CCP rules Inb4 backfire effect Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27906	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:30:58 - [1110] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hence, controlling the rate at which you gank. This is what we call a nerf, a nerf being something negatively affects a playstyle, ship or module. Furthermore the current mechanics already place a hard limit on how often a character can gank. Quote: There are many players in lowsec who enjoying pvpng but don't really have the time to grind isk for the cost of ships that they use. They still find it completely worth it to buy a plex one or two times a month to avoid the grind needed to maintain the costs of what they find enjoyable. Do you have anything to back this up? Quote: Why is it wrong to enforce this thing on career criminals as well. Those who PvP effectively don't need to buy plex. Those who gank effectively shouldn't need to buy plex either. Any lowsec players that buy a PLEX to fund their PvP makes a conscious choice to do so, they aren't being forced or coerced to do so via mechanics and there are alternative means to fund their needs, activities such as PI are low maintenance and rather profitable outside of hisec. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:32:23 - [1111] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing alt with the freighter? Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit) Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes; And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;] Since when is webbing an exploit?! Hahahahah Does that mean every pvp'er ever is exploiting the game? And definitely a miner if you say you aren't.... So miner, calm down I see another piece of Wood came here so his "friend" can feel an e-peen growing; blocked :) That's the easiest "block" I've managed to get hahahahah These guys are so easily triggered Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:36:58 - [1112] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... He does 12 toons in compliance with CCP rules Inb4 backfire effect I can count more than a few times hes been banned.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:40:02 - [1113] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls. Best start believing in troll threads Erich, you're in one Denial is all you have left Especially since everyone is calling you out (and not supporting like you keep saying hahahahaha) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:42:00 - [1114] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls. Best start believing in troll threads Erich, you're in one Denial is all you have left Especially since everyone is calling you out (and not supporting like you keep saying hahahahaha) That's why I have received 60+ likes from comments on this thread alone.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:42:15 - [1115] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... He does 12 toons in compliance with CCP rules Inb4 backfire effect I can count more than a few times hes been banned. You don't even know the cause of his only ban hahahaha This isn't the place to talk about that either ;) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3666	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:42:48 - [1116] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hence, controlling the rate at which you freight. There are many players in highsec who enjoying freighting but don't really have the time to grind isk for the cost of ships that they use. They still find it completely worth it to buy a plex one or two times a month to avoid the grind needed to maintain the costs of what they find enjoyable. Why is it wrong to enforce this thing on career couriers as well. Those who freight effectively don't need to buy plex. Those who freight effectively shouldn't need to buy plex either. FTFY the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:44:13 - [1117] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls. Best start believing in troll threads Erich, you're in one Denial is all you have left Especially since everyone is calling you out (and not supporting like you keep saying hahahahaha) That's why I have received 60+ likes from comments on this thread alone. From what? 5 people? Likes don't mean much little man, look at Facebook and reddit (you know the place where you got down voted to hell lol) But "everyone supports me" Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3668	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:48:53 - [1118] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I can count more than a few times hes been banned. You don't even know the cause of his only ban hahahaha This isn't the place to talk about that either ;) Everytime he makes a game break for a few days they first celebrate because he is obviously banned. I mean people don't take breaks from playing a game. After celebrating for a few minutes, they realise that they are out of content and start to make up stories about CODE. dying. Seen it a few times now the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:50:37 - [1119] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls. Best start believing in troll threads Erich, you're in one Denial is all you have left Especially since everyone is calling you out (and not supporting like you keep saying hahahahaha) That's why I have received 60+ likes from comments on this thread alone. From what? 5 people? Likes don't mean much little man, look at Facebook and reddit (you know the place where you got down voted to hell lol) But "everyone supports me" Cry me a river. There is a reason you took time out of your ganks to troll my thread.... Your playing my game when you actually want to be playing EVE. I know can't just walk away though... It's ok. I don't blame you.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3668	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:52:44 - [1120] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: There is a reason you took time out of your ganks to troll my thread.... Your playing my game when you actually want to be playing EVE. I'm ganking right now. There is a 15min timer you know the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:52:46 - [1121] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I can count more than a few times hes been banned. You don't even know the cause of his only ban hahahaha This isn't the place to talk about that either ;) Everytime he makes a game break for a few days they first celebrate because he is obviously banned. I mean people don't take breaks from playing a game. After celebrating for a few minutes, they realise that they are out of content and start to make up stories about CODE. dying. Seen it a few times now Funny how he took a break the day after I got finished wrecking him.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:53:30 - [1122] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Trigger all you want. All your are doing is ensuring that this thread stays at the top of the forum list so that others can ready the OP. You think they are really going to read all of your trolls. Best start believing in troll threads Erich, you're in one Denial is all you have left Especially since everyone is calling you out (and not supporting like you keep saying hahahahaha) That's why I have received 60+ likes from comments on this thread alone. From what? 5 people? Likes don't mean much little man, look at Facebook and reddit (you know the place where you got down voted to hell lol) But "everyone supports me" Cry me a river. There is a reason you took time out of your ganks to troll my thread.... Your playing my game when you actually want to be playing EVE. I know you can't just walk away though... It's ok. I don't blame you. You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27906	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:55:27 - [1123] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha looks at Corp and alliance, giggles, fetches popcorn and a sixpack In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:56:19 - [1124] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: There is a reason you took time out of your ganks to troll my thread.... Your playing my game when you actually want to be playing EVE. I'm ganking right now. There is a 15min timer you know And you want to spend that 15min with me.... I'm flattered.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:59:33 - [1125] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha LUL...last I checked I owned this OP
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:01:11 - [1126] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha looks at Corp and alliance, giggles, fetches popcorn and a sixpack; waits for assumptions and hilarity to ensue Yeah I know People expect all CODE. to be gankers ;) I enforce through a different method :) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27906	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:02:59 - [1127] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha LUL...last I checked I owned this OP We'll add how a discussion forum works to the list of things you don't know. You lost ownership of this thread the moment you posted it. Any chance you had of regaining ownership went out of the window the second we saw that you didn't know the difference between Concord and the Faction Police, a very basic feature of the mechanic you'd like changed. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:05:11 - [1128] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha LUL...last I checked I owned this OP We'll add how a discussion forum works to the list of things you don't know. You lost ownership of this thread the moment you posted it. Please, edit the OP then.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27906	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:06:23 - [1129] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha LUL...last I checked I owned this OP We'll add how a discussion forum works to the list of things you don't know. You lost ownership of this thread the moment you posted it. Please, edit the OP then. You have ownership of your posts, you don't have ownership of the thread, and never have done. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 88	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:13:13 - [1130] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: You're actually on my playground kiddo I don't gank, and I already wasn't playing EVE (Yay for lunch breaks hahahah) All that bark but no bite at all hahhaha LUL...last I checked I owned this OP We'll add how a discussion forum works to the list of things you don't know. You lost ownership of this thread the moment you posted it. Please, edit the OP then. You have ownership of your posts, you don't have ownership of the thread, and never have done. Has nothing to do with you taking time out of your day to spend it me ...

Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1543	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:15:36 - [1131] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... What illegal software? Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3670	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:17:10 - [1132] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: There is a reason you took time out of your ganks to troll my thread.... Your playing my game when you actually want to be playing EVE. I'm ganking right now. There is a 15min timer you know And you want to spend that 15min with me.... I'm flattered. Not in particular. This is "CCP halp! nerf ganking"-thread #838632. It is a hobby of mine to bring logic and reason to all those who seam to have a problem with understanding how the game works. Erich Einstein wrote: Funny how he took a break the day after I got finished wrecking him. Was that before or after you felt the urge to whine on the forums about how CCP needs to change the game mechanics in your favour? I mean if I dunk miners the whole day and win constantly all the time I don't then feel the urge to run to the forums and start a thread about how mining needs fixing. I think that's more someone who fails all day continuously, all the time without a break, speak our typical AG. But cool story bro the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 965	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:20:29 - [1133] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... What illegal software? He's probably referring to ISboxer (which is 100% allowed as long as you don't broadcast imput to other toons) If anyone uses imput broadcasting, CCP will ban them long before people notice Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1543	Posted - 2017.03.02 19:51:26 - [1134] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: If its easy to multibox 11 accounts then how is it hard to have a webbing... Are you saying if you don't use illegal software to do it... What illegal software? He's probably referring to ISboxer (which is 100% allowed as long as you don't broadcast imput to other toons) If anyone uses imput broadcasting, CCP will ban them long before people notice He said just a page or two back (I've only read the last couple of pages) that he has a computer science degree, so I'm interested what he is claiming here is illegal software. I am well aware of the issues around input broadcasting, which doesn't make any software illegal and no computer science major would claim that. So @Erich: what illegal software? Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 98	Posted - 2017.03.02 20:40:59 - [1135] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Was that before or after you felt the urge to whine on the forums about how CCP needs to change the game mechanics in your favour? I mean if I dunk miners the whole day and win constantly all the time I don't then feel the urge to run to the forums and start a thread about how mining needs fixing. I think that's more someone who fails all day continuously, all the time without a break, speak our typical AG. But cool story bro I'm a menace to everyone in-game, not just gankers. I have billions stored down in lowsec where I operate primarily. In my latest venture (#codeCONTROL - freighter destruction) I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 966	Posted - 2017.03.02 20:46:03 - [1136] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them. What are those mechanics? Hmm? prepares more popcorn Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Sherwood Hisec Industrial Technologies 328	Posted - 2017.03.02 21:45:25 - [1137] - Quote I skipped most of this: There are two sides of the coin. Ganking right now is fine. The people getting tanked are the ones not using the system like they should. I am a care bear, and I am not a ganker, but all the tools they are bears need to taking care of gankers is there in the game already. If memory serves me right a -5 sec status means players can engage you without concord intervention. Care Bears need to stop being morons and start taking escort fleets with them. Freighter being bumped: have fleet mate duel Freighter pilot, and web into Warp. Undocking from Jita, have escort team out side on undock ready to support. Yeah, escort work is probably boring as ****, but so is coming to the forums and seeing people complain about mechanics they think are broken when they don't even use the tools that are there already to help them. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 #NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6033	Posted - 2017.03.02 21:46:41 - [1138] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them. What are those mechanics? Hmm? prepares more popcorn Holy Mother of God...I go away for a few days and this dung heap of thread is still going, but now with a different whine. Yes indeed, what mechanics are they "ignoring"? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6033	Posted - 2017.03.02 21:58:51 - [1139] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: I skipped most of this: There are two sides of the coin. Ganking right now is fine. The people getting tanked are the ones not using the system like they should. I am a care bear, and I am not a ganker, but all the tools they are bears need to taking care of gankers is there in the game already. If memory serves me right a -5 sec status means players can engage you without concord intervention. Care Bears need to stop being morons and start taking escort fleets with them. Freighter being bumped: have fleet mate duel Freighter pilot, and web into Warp. Undocking from Jita, have escort team out side on undock ready to support. Yeah, escort work is probably boring as ****, but so is coming to the forums and seeing people complain about mechanics they think are broken when they don't even use the tools that are there already to help them. Escort work consists of a scout, preferably with webs. And even then you are really only going to need this if you are hauling too much. And even then if you have lots in your freighter, just go dock up in another station in Jita and log off for a day or so. If you dock up they may wait for you for a bit, but chances are they will move on to other targets. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 21:58:59 - [1140] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them. What are those mechanics? Hmm? prepares more popcorn Hence the ability to read 60 pages of previous posts. Well you can Ignore the last ten pages of trolling ...

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6033	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:00:31 - [1141] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled. Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof. I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over. Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass. Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6033	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:01:33 - [1142] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them. What are those mechanics? Hmm? prepares more popcorn Hence the ability to read 60 pages of previous posts. Well you can Ignore the last ten pages of trolling ... Translation: Erich has zip, zilch, nada, nothing, zero, the empty set, bumpkiss, zed.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:17:47 - [1143] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled. Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending. Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof. I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over. Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass. Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't. prepares popcorn to watch your rant
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 496	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:25:35 - [1144] - Quote OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6036	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:26:36 - [1145] - Quote Okay, the question is, given all these references to how much ISK value Kusion and his merry band of alts destroys.... On what evidence is the OP basing his claim on that more ISK value should be allowed to move around HS with less risk? Merely noting that trillions of ISK has been destroyed by Kusion over the course of of 27 months. That means on average Kusion has killed 351 billion ISK a month, or lets say 12 billion ISK a day on average. How much ISK moves around HS? The OP has made absolutely zero effort to tell us this. The OP has not made the case that there is "too much" destruction. All he does is point to a large number and in shrill and whiny post after post writes, "Too much!!! There, there is your proof!!" But, a quick glance at CCP Quandt's reports tells us that the OP has his head so firmly ensconced between his buttocks it is a minor miracle he has not suffocated. Nearly 1 quadrillion ISK flowed into the Forge in December 2016 and nearly 1 quadrillion flowed out. Quadrillion, 1,000 times a trillion. In terms of goods there is a metric butt loads of stuff moving in and out of the Forge and around the game. Why does it need to be easier to move stuff around? After all, the OP quite clearly thinks suicide ganking of freighters is far, far too easy. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6036	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:28:50 - [1146] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass. Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't. prepares popcorn to watch your rant Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:28:59 - [1147] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6036	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:30:28 - [1148] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested. ^^^^ If you have the ability to answer it, I have asked two. But my guess is you'll dodge. Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:31:05 - [1149] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass. Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't. prepares popcorn to watch your rant Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things. Make your statement using your stats and I will respond. I dont have time to do all the research you need to help you make your point.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6036	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:32:38 - [1150] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass. Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't. prepares popcorn to watch your rant Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things. Make your statement using your stats and I will respond. I dont have time to do all the research you need to help you make your point. Yup dodging.... Here I'll help you even more. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Jan_2017/0_produced.vs.destroyed.png Edit: Lots more economic statistics here, https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-january-2017/ "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:35:34 - [1151] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down).
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 973	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:36:52 - [1152] - Quote What mechanics Erich? Still haven't answered ;) This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:37:27 - [1153] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: What mechanics Erich? Still haven't answered ;) This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you. See #1151
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:38:22 - [1154] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down). So, you continue to dodge and weasel. So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it. And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 973	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:40:06 - [1155] - Quote After 1154 posts, I believe it's time we get this useless thread locked Nothing of worth will be lost Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:40:11 - [1156] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: What mechanics Erich? Still haven't answered ;) This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you. See #1151 Working as CCP intended. They clearly intended for players with low sec status to be able to move through HS with fast moving ships--e.g. pods, shuttles, travelceptors, frigs, and destroyers. Such players are essentially unable to use cruiser sized ships and above. Where is the problem? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:40:45 - [1157] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested. Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:42:56 - [1158] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested. Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims. Clearly because it is too easy. Erich Einstein is a master of circular reasoning.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:43:03 - [1159] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down). So, you continue to dodge and weasel. So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it. And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using. again... popcorn Im not interested in trolling that topic with you.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 973	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:45:37 - [1160] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down). So, you continue to dodge and weasel. So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it. And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using. again... popcorn Im not interested in trolling that topic with you. That topic is your op... Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:46:09 - [1161] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested. Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims. Since you understand that ganking is too easy. Feel free to tell me how the OP doesnt effectively work and provide an alternative or fix and Im not opposed to editing the OP if your point is valid. I have done this for others such as lowsec pvpers who pod.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:48:09 - [1162] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Here, I'll ask again: About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed? You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down). So, you continue to dodge and weasel. So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it. And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using. again... popcorn Im not interested in trolling that topic with you. So you make a claim and won't discuss it. Yup, time to lock up this dung heap of a thread. Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:49:11 - [1163] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke. No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested. Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims. Since you understand that ganking is too easy. Feel free to tell me how the OP doesnt effectively work and provide an alternative or fix and Im not opposed to editing the OP if your point is valid. I have done this for others such as lowsec pvpers who pod. Liar. He quite clearly asked why you think it is too easy, what lead you to that conclusion. Besides Kusion's trillions in ISK destroyed which you have already admitted is actually irrelevant. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:51:34 - [1164] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. I have extensively explained this in a previous post. Please find it if you dont understand how targeting works.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:56:49 - [1165] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Liar. He quite clearly asked why you think it is too easy, what lead you to that conclusion. Besides Kusion's trillions in ISK destroyed which you have already admitted is actually irrelevant. Go back and read the first 40 posts and maybe you will understand. Im sorry you are having sure a hard time understanding. Unless you have something constructive to add, I really dont have time to troll your agenda.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 973	Posted - 2017.03.02 23:05:15 - [1166] - Quote LOL OP is out of arguments Seems like we bled the sheep dry boys GF Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.02 23:08:29 - [1167] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: LOL OP is out of arguments Seems like we bled the sheep dry boys GF Just not interested in trolling. I've already flagged many of your posts.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.02 23:24:46 - [1168] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: LOL OP is out of arguments Seems like we bled the sheep dry boys GF Just not interested in trolling. I've already flagged many of your posts. For what? All he has been asking for is the mechanics suicide gankers are ignoring. You can't respond to anyone. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:01:14 - [1169] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims. Since you understand that ganking is too easy. I said I'm aware of your opinion on the matter, not that I agree with your opinion. Ganking is not too easy. It's roughly on par with most activities within EVE. Quote: Feel free to tell me how the OP doesnt effectively work and provide an alternative or fix and Im not opposed to editing the OP if your point is valid. I have done this for others such as lowsec pvpers who pod. First, we need to establish whether such a fix is even necessary. Once again I must reiterate: I am aware of your opinion. What I want to know is what has led you to this conclusion. Why is actively seeking a target, scanning its cargo and fit to assess profitability, coordinating with a gank fleet, including scouts, DPS and loot ships considered an easier task than plotting a course and either clicking "Jump" or hitting autopilot and going AFK? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:02:03 - [1170] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. I have extensively explained this in a previous post. Please find it if you dont understand how targeting works. Smart bombs are a thing. <^.^> I'm a cat lol

Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3792	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:11:16 - [1171] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Smart bombs are a thing. Tell me about it. I was in warp when this happened. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ajem Hinken Quaice Industries 36	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:16:32 - [1172] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Smart bombs are a thing. Tell me about it. I was in warp when this happened. Why would you fly such a cheap shuttle?
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3792	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:27:28 - [1173] - Quote I sense sarcasm but i got it for free :) EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6037	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:31:41 - [1174] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. I have extensively explained this in a previous post. Please find it if you dont understand how targeting works. Smart bombs are a thing. Not just that, but nobody is guaranteed getting a lock or getting off a shot. That the guy has to use a ship that aligns faster than most ships will lock makes the point...that having a low sec status means you can only use a limited number of ships when moving through HS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 99	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:32:07 - [1175] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. I have extensively explained this in a previous post. Please find it if you dont understand how targeting works. Smart bombs are a thing. Not without going criminal and being wrecked yourself.
Specia1 K State War Academy Caldari State 297	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:42:10 - [1176] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps you could try to explain what "warp invulnerability" is? No? Didn't think so. I have extensively explained this in a previous post. Please find it if you dont understand how targeting works. Smart bombs are a thing. Not without going criminal and being wrecked yourself. Are you sure about that?
Ajem Hinken Quaice Industries 36	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:48:36 - [1177] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: I sense sarcasm but i got it for free :) It was sarcasm, both because of its ISK value and its durability.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3792	Posted - 2017.03.03 00:55:23 - [1178] - Quote Im one of the people who, if i got an alliance tourny ship, would fly it rather than let it collect dust. And 20au/s on the leopard is too good not to use. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 983	Posted - 2017.03.03 01:06:58 - [1179] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: LOL OP is out of arguments Seems like we bled the sheep dry boys GF Just not interested in trolling. I've already flagged many of your posts. I still haven't had my answer lmao And you expect me to sit here quietly? Dream on, Miner Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 376	Posted - 2017.03.03 01:10:22 - [1180] - Quote OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Sherwood Hisec Industrial Technologies 332	Posted - 2017.03.03 03:06:28 - [1181] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Amarisen Gream wrote: I skipped most of this: There are two sides of the coin. Ganking right now is fine. The people getting tanked are the ones not using the system like they should. I am a care bear, and I am not a ganker, but all the tools they are bears need to taking care of gankers is there in the game already. If memory serves me right a -5 sec status means players can engage you without concord intervention. Care Bears need to stop being morons and start taking escort fleets with them. Freighter being bumped: have fleet mate duel Freighter pilot, and web into Warp. Undocking from Jita, have escort team out side on undock ready to support. Yeah, escort work is probably boring as ****, but so is coming to the forums and seeing people complain about mechanics they think are broken when they don't even use the tools that are there already to help them. Escort work consists of a scout, preferably with webs. And even then you are really only going to need this if you are hauling too much. And even then if you have lots in your freighter, just go dock up in another station in Jita and log off for a day or so. If you dock up they may wait for you for a bit, but chances are they will move on to other targets. I think you for your feedback. But I think you missed my point. There is already a counter to -5 sec status players. People just find the counter to boring to do. Fit a passive scanner on your escort fleet ships and make sure -5 jerks show up on your overview. People need to be educated on how crimewatch works, before asking for nerfs on a system they don't use as it was built. Concord/Faction Police are not built to protect players. Players are suppose to kill or protect their own. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 #NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6038	Posted - 2017.03.03 05:40:23 - [1182] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. The irony of a poster with the last name Trump making one of the most sound methodological posts in the thread.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6038	Posted - 2017.03.03 05:43:25 - [1183] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Amarisen Gream wrote: I skipped most of this: There are two sides of the coin. Ganking right now is fine. The people getting tanked are the ones not using the system like they should. I am a care bear, and I am not a ganker, but all the tools they are bears need to taking care of gankers is there in the game already. If memory serves me right a -5 sec status means players can engage you without concord intervention. Care Bears need to stop being morons and start taking escort fleets with them. Freighter being bumped: have fleet mate duel Freighter pilot, and web into Warp. Undocking from Jita, have escort team out side on undock ready to support. Yeah, escort work is probably boring as ****, but so is coming to the forums and seeing people complain about mechanics they think are broken when they don't even use the tools that are there already to help them. Escort work consists of a scout, preferably with webs. And even then you are really only going to need this if you are hauling too much. And even then if you have lots in your freighter, just go dock up in another station in Jita and log off for a day or so. If you dock up they may wait for you for a bit, but chances are they will move on to other targets. I think you for your feedback. But I think you missed my point. There is already a counter to -5 sec status players. People just find the counter to boring to do. Fit a passive scanner on your escort fleet ships and make sure -5 jerks show up on your overview. People need to be educated on how crimewatch works, before asking for nerfs on a system they don't use as it was built. Concord/Faction Police are not built to protect players. Players are suppose to kill or protect their own. Oh I totally agree. I was just pointing to yet another tactic one could use. Leave the Jita 4-4 Caldari Navy station and dock up and log off. Most suicide gankers will start looking for a new target. Wait a few hours and then log back in. Nobody will be watching that station you docked in and make your run. Point being, there are a multitude of ways to solve these problems vs. running to Daddy CCP and crying like a whipped female dog. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 60	Posted - 2017.03.03 11:18:15 - [1184] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many; Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all; So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling;
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 386	Posted - 2017.03.03 11:44:27 - [1185] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many; Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all; So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; So far the only argument you and your friends have put forward is "I think that criminals need to be punished more," which is an OPINION and is worth nothing unless you can show WHY criminals need tombd treated more harshly. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27913	Posted - 2017.03.03 13:09:09 - [1186] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many Irony in action. Most of the people that disagree are asking why. Every single argument your friends have made has been circular, based on opinion and unsubstantiated in any way. When we ask for substantiation we get fobbed of and the question is evaded. Quote: Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all Wrong. We're asking why gankers should have to work harder than they already do in order to operate, when the people that the changes in this thread would benefit currently make terrible choices and put in very little effort. Examples of what work goes into a gank have been given already been given, yet they were poo-pooed as irrelevant because they didn't fit into the agenda of the OP and friends. Quote: So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; Pointing out that people are failing to produce any supporting material for their claim is criticism Claiming that your opinion is fact, evading questions, circular reasoning, not producing supporting evidence, dismissing the opinions and supporting evidence of others etc is trolling. Stop trolling, get discussing. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 987	Posted - 2017.03.03 13:40:50 - [1187] - Quote So Erich What mechanics? Did the cat eat your tongue? #inb4Igettoldtoreadtheprevious60pagestofindtheanswer Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 60	Posted - 2017.03.03 14:39:06 - [1188] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many; Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all; So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; So far the only argument you and your friends have put forward is "I think that criminals need to be punished more," which is an OPINION and is worth nothing unless you can show WHY criminals need tombd treated more harshly. Yes - that is Opinion; Argument were already told - look for it and you will find it; I see no point of rewriting arguments over and over again when we already gave them;
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 60	Posted - 2017.03.03 14:40:07 - [1189] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many Irony in action. Most of the people that disagree are asking why. Every single argument your friends have made has been circular, based on opinion and unsubstantiated in any way. When we ask for substantiation we get fobbed off and the question is evaded. Quote: Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all Wrong. We're asking why gankers should have to work harder than they already do in order to operate, whereas the people that the changes in this thread would benefit currently make terrible choices and put in very little effort, and the changes would mean that they'd be rewarded for their terrible choices, and put even less effort in than they currently do. Examples of what work goes into a gank have been given already been given, yet they were poo-pooed as irrelevant because they didn't fit into the agenda of the OP and friends. Quote: So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; Pointing out that people are failing to produce any supporting material for their claim is criticism Claiming that your opinion is fact, evading questions, circular reasoning, not producing supporting evidence, dismissing the opinions and supporting evidence of others etc are all trolling. Stop trolling, get discussing. Short story short - Cause of Ballance;
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 988	Posted - 2017.03.03 14:51:47 - [1190] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many; Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all; So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; So far the only argument you and your friends have put forward is "I think that criminals need to be punished more," which is an OPINION and is worth nothing unless you can show WHY criminals need tombd treated more harshly. Yes - that is Opinion; Argument were already told - look for it and you will find it; I see no point of rewriting arguments over and over again when we already gave them; You awfully sound like op /me thinks you're an alt of his hahahah Same replies, same level of aggressiveness, same lack of valid answers Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27914	Posted - 2017.03.03 14:56:23 - [1191] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Yes - that is Opinion We know, and thus far that's all we've seen from you and your friends. Quote: Argument were already told - look for it and you will find it; I see no point of rewriting arguments over and over again when we already gave them; So where are your arguments, along with their supporting evidence? Quote: Short story short - Cause of Ballance; Where is the evidence that the current system is unbalanced? This is what we want to see. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3795	Posted - 2017.03.03 15:12:30 - [1192] - Quote Naye look in the mirror. I've been in this thread since the start. Told nightmare and op how ganking is not just good for the economy but also makes us more engaged in the game. Shown how ganking is extremely rare as well as easily avoidable. Shown how the more ganking is nerfed the fewer subs there are im in the game not more. On the otherside of the argument however, nothing. People have said less ganking is better for everyone, but won't say how. Say crime and punishment needs to be more realistic in some ways but not others but wont explain why it would be better gameplay. Say that ganking is easy and has no risk or punishment yet willfully ignore most of what actually happens before, during and after a gank. The otherside of the argument keeps showing that they aren't that familiar with mechanics as they think. They have lied and dodged when asked to back up what they claim. This isn't even just a failure of backing up what you say. Nightmare can't even give us her opinion on why less ganking would be better for the game. Just keeps pretending that their proposal doesn't reduce ganking. And you've been like this in other threads Naye. Lot's to say, but little explanation or backing up. Just circular arguments and opinion posts. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18728	Posted - 2017.03.03 17:01:34 - [1193] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where is the evidence that the current system is unbalanced? This is what we want to see, and what the OP, NightmareX and yourself have so far failed to produce. If anything it can be argued that the balance is too far in favour of the haulers, miners and mission runners these days. Just looking at the data shows the chances of getting blown up in highsec while doing these activities is very very low.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27917	Posted - 2017.03.03 17:38:24 - [1194] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where is the evidence that the current system is unbalanced? This is what we want to see, and what the OP, NightmareX and yourself have so far failed to produce. If anything it can be argued that the balance is too far in favour of the haulers, miners and mission runners these days. Just looking at the data shows the chances of getting blown up in highsec while doing these activities is very very low. There is that to consider, and you're not wrong. The OP and his friends seem too think that the balance is skewed the other way, yet have failed to produce any analysis of the data that confirms it. Which leaves me with 2 obvious questions. Have they actually looked at and analysed the data? Does it support their claims in any way? I think the answer to both is probably not. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3802	Posted - 2017.03.03 18:03:25 - [1195] - Quote They definitely believe ganking doesn't come with enough consequences. But, given that its a game, i want to know why the realism they seek is good for the game. Because obviously not all realism is good or i could shoot and kill concord. And concord couldn't arrive anywhere in hisec within 20 seconds. They believe ganking is easy, lucrative and risk free. But the loot fairy is risk whether you like it or not. The presence of anti-gankers is risk whether you like it or not. Easy, ganking is not. It takes hours of work to conduct. More than most are willing to put into it. And as for lucrative, a gankers payout is entirety dependant on the greed of other players. If you want gankers to earn less, don't carry as much. Simple as. What carries more risk: Ganking or webbing a freighter into warp? What takes more work: Ganking or webbing a freighter into warp? Im just saying, relatively speaking, its a doddle to avoid ganks and hauling involves little to no risk. You cannot make the case that ganking is easy and lacking in risk and at the same time say its too much work to bring a webber. You just can't. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 504	Posted - 2017.03.03 18:40:31 - [1196] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Im just saying, relatively speaking, its a doddle to avoid ganks and hauling involves little to no risk. You cannot make the case that ganking is easy and lacking in risk and at the same time say its too much work to bring a webber. You just can't. You hit the nail on the head. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 315	Posted - 2017.03.03 18:45:20 - [1197] - Quote CONCORD should impose a penalty to a system that is in High Sec Space that would reduce the amount of mining, reprocessing amounts, yields, etc. to balance out the ganking taking place. Based on the Security Status of the system and how much ganking is taking place would determine the penalty applied. After so many hours of ganking not taking place the system would slowly return to normal. The goal is to get Pilots engaging the gankers and providing escorts from a few systems out to hauler pilots. I'm surprised that several corporations or even an Alliance hasn't been created to provide escorts through a gank system seeing as how the gank systems are routes traveled from common trade hubs.
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 315	Posted - 2017.03.03 18:52:39 - [1198] - Quote Bumping freighters and hauler INTO warp The question is can the hauler that is on auto-pilot be bumped into its warp using small ships like cruisers? If a hauler can be bumped out of its alignment using battleships then destroyers, frigates and cruisers that have a lot of mass and have a high velocity could possibly bump a freighter into warp without causing misalignment by repeatedly bumping the freighter from behind like a mother Orca would bump her babies to get them going. Do Stasis Grapplers increase the Grapple to Warp variable compared to the Web to Warp variable?
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 504	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:00:14 - [1199] - Quote Imma go with no on the use of cruisers to bump, purely because they just don't have the mass necessary to impact a freighter's trajectory, particularly when they're fighting a battleship's attempts to bump at the same time. Now, using a fast ship to create fleet warp targets on the freighter's trajectory, that's a different matter. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 997	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:00:54 - [1200] - Quote DrysonBennington wrote: Bumping freighters and hauler INTO warp The question is can the hauler that is on auto-pilot be bumped into its warp using small ships like cruisers? If a hauler can be bumped out of its alignment using battleships then destroyers, frigates and cruisers that have a lot of mass and have a high velocity could possibly bump a freighter into warp without causing misalignment by repeatedly bumping the freighter from behind like a mother Orca would bump her babies to get them going. Do Stasis Grapplers increase the Grapple to Warp variable compared to the Web to Warp variable? Grapplers are literally webs, but with an optimal and falloff You're better using any smaller ship with Web bonuses than a bs with a grappler Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 997	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:01:57 - [1201] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Imma go with no on the use of cruisers to bump, purely because they just don't have the mass necessary to impact a freighter's trajectory, particularly when they're fighting a battleship's attempts to bump at the same time. Now, using a fast ship to create fleet warp targets, that's a different matter. Stabbers and Omen Navy are potent freighter bumpers ;) Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6039	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:22:13 - [1202] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: OP, if you wish to discuss something, it is wise to not call everyone who disagrees with you trolls. Criticism is what improves and refines an idea. Furthermore, if you want people to have any hope of agreeing with your idea, you need to show a clear and present need for it, instead of just an opinion. Believing that criminals need to be punished more harshly is fine, but unless you can show why that would be better for the game, people aren't likely to agree with you. Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many; Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all; So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; Really? I distinctly asked several times "Why?" As have several other posters. So again... Why should freighter suicide ganking become more difficult? Considering it takes a fleet, a bumper, a scout, logistics people, etc? Compared to the freighter pilot who anti-tanks his ship, puts too much stuff in it, and takes no other precautions. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6039	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:24:55 - [1203] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Criticism is then when you have and share with others your arguments; Most of the people who disagrees with "us" are just "NOOOOOO" ppl; Without a single argument which they got from us many Irony in action. Most of the people that disagree are asking why. Every single argument your friends have made has been circular, based on opinion and unsubstantiated in any way. When we ask for substantiation we get fobbed off and the question is evaded. Quote: Their point of view is: "I don't want to work harder cause of my crimes because.... NO!" and that's all Wrong. We're asking why gankers should have to work harder than they already do in order to operate, whereas the people that the changes in this thread would benefit currently make terrible choices and put in very little effort, and the changes would mean that they'd be rewarded for their terrible choices, and put even less effort in than they currently do. Examples of what work goes into a gank have been given already been given, yet they were poo-pooed as irrelevant because they didn't fit into the agenda of the OP and friends. Quote: So it's not Criticism - it's just pure trolling; Pointing out that people are failing to produce any supporting material for their claim is criticism Claiming that your opinion is fact, evading questions, circular reasoning, not producing supporting evidence, dismissing the opinions and supporting evidence of others etc are all trolling. Stop trolling, get discussing. Short story short - Cause of Ballance; Again, where is the imbalance. How much stuff moves around HS in freighters unmolested vs. stuff getting ganked? Do you know? I put up some links awhile back giving some indications. What precisely is imbalanced? That you think it is too easy? Again, why should it be harder? What is the underlying reason than, "Because I say so."? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3880	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:29:36 - [1204] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Really? I distinctly asked several times "Why?" As have several other posters. So again... Why should freighter suicide ganking become more difficult? Considering it takes a fleet, a bumper, a scout, logistics people, etc? Compared to the freighter pilot who anti-tanks his ship, puts too much stuff in it, and takes no other precautions. Ignoring the 'more difficult' part, Ganking gameplay is currently bad. It doesn't create meaningful interaction between players, yes there is all sorts of preparation interaction (assuming they aren't multiboxing as some manage to still do), but the gank itself is a blink and you missed it event. Blink and you missed it events are not a good thing for the game, especially since they can be mathed out so carefully meaning the interactions result is known before it begins 99% of the time. You also can't dodge a targeted gank easily, if the gankers want you it's child's play to kill you, all you can do is drop the chance of them wanting you. The only way to not get ganked if they specifically want to gank 'YOU' rather than any high value target is simply not log in. This is why I've been posting about both changes to Concord (No ship spawn, just your ship blows up after the timer, to stop spawn lag) and the Concord timer increasing significantly (to 1-2 mins at least if not even longer), along side giving industrial type ships real fittings. The intent being to keep the average difficulty of a gank the same (If not easier since a longer timer means fewer ships 'needed' if they are afk), but making pilot skill have a larger impact as well as more time for other people to chose to get involved. (Including other gankers jumping in). To sum up, the current situation doesn't create a feeling of involvement for the target, this can be dramatically improved without changing ganking difficulty overall. And is the direction changes should go in.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6039	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:39:52 - [1205] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: baltec1 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where is the evidence that the current system is unbalanced? This is what we want to see, and what the OP, NightmareX and yourself have so far failed to produce. If anything it can be argued that the balance is too far in favour of the haulers, miners and mission runners these days. Just looking at the data shows the chances of getting blown up in highsec while doing these activities is very very low. There is that to consider, and you're not wrong. The OP and his friends seem to think that the balance is skewed the other way, yet have failed to produce any analysis of the data that confirms it. Which leaves me with 2 obvious questions. Have they actually looked at and analysed the data? Does the data support their claims in any way? I think the answer to both is probably not. Ironically I have posted links to actual data provided by CCP Quandt and people like the OP and his lackeys don't even look at it. If you look at production there has been a significant upward sloping trend. I'll be curious to see what happens in February, but there has been a ton of products brought into the New Eden economy. Part of it might be Burn Jita, I suppose. But these guys keep saying "the data" and their "data" is Kusion's ISK Destroyed statistics. Which isn't even data, it is a statistic--i.e. it gives us a summary of the data...part of the data, it isn't even a summary statistic in the sense of ISK destroyed, but ISK destroyed and dropped. And even that does not tell us how much stuff is being moved around HS without being ganked. In short, they have no data. When data and statistics are presented they ignore them. And misrepresent everyone else's position. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 3677	Posted - 2017.03.03 19:56:50 - [1206] - Quote I think we can now conclude this thread and summarize it's basc message with the following two statements: 1) AG is so bad they can't even win with CONCORD helping them so the want even more help from CCP 2) The CODE alway wins. ALWAYS! 2*) WALLHAX!!!!1!! /thread the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6039	Posted - 2017.03.03 20:20:38 - [1207] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Really? I distinctly asked several times "Why?" As have several other posters. So again... Why should freighter suicide ganking become more difficult? Considering it takes a fleet, a bumper, a scout, logistics people, etc? Compared to the freighter pilot who anti-tanks his ship, puts too much stuff in it, and takes no other precautions. Ignoring the 'more difficult' part, Ganking gameplay is currently bad. It doesn't create meaningful interaction between players, yes there is all sorts of preparation interaction (assuming they aren't multiboxing as some manage to still do), but the gank itself is a blink and you missed it event. Blink and you missed it events are not a good thing for the game, especially since they can be mathed out so carefully meaning the interactions result is known before it begins 99% of the time. Most ship kills are "blink" and you missed it. And the interaction is not limited to just the gank itself, but the entire time spent in fleet ganking which can be a few hours. Nevyn Auscent wrote: You also can't dodge a targeted gank easily, if the gankers want you it's child's play to kill you, all you can do is drop the chance of them wanting you. The only way to not get ganked if they specifically want to gank 'YOU' rather than any high value target is simply not log in. Okay, and? This is true irrespective of ship, activity, etc. If a group decides you are going to die, chances are, you as a lone pilot, you will die. As for child's play I disagree. I have been on gank fleets and depending on your target you need several people for DPS, at least 10 or so. You'll need a bumper. If you are ganking for profit, you'll need a scanner and somebody to scoop the loot. Then there is the logistics of getting the ships and ammo in place. The actual moving of stuff. Assembling ships. Putting them on contracts. And I'll once point out you are only seeing part of the picture: those who were ganked--i.e. took few or no precautions. Ganking the "low hanging fruit" is of course going to look easy. How many people are moving around who are prudent? How many are getting around just based on luck? Nevyn Auscent wrote: This is why I've been posting about both changes to Concord (No ship spawn, just your ship blows up after the timer, to stop spawn lag) and the Concord timer increasing significantly (to 1-2 mins at least if not even longer), along side giving industrial type ships real fittings. The intent being to keep the average difficulty of a gank the same (If not easier since a longer timer means fewer ships 'needed' if they are afk), but making pilot skill have a larger impact as well as more time for other people to chose to get involved. (Including other gankers jumping in). So...you are suggesting increasing the CONCORD response times, but allowing for more fitting options? Like say some form of weaponry? At least that is a new idea vs. the usual rants. I guess I'd be a oh so slightly worried about fatigue and NS but that would depend on the weapon systems I guess. Could be an interesting discussion. I would still argue that a single pilot/ship should not generally be a match for an entire fleet of ships. Nevyn Auscent wrote: To sum up, the current situation doesn't create a feeling of involvement for the target, this can be dramatically improved without changing ganking difficulty overall. And is the direction changes should go in. Once you are being bumped, this is true. There is little a pilot can do at that point...but again, that is usually after multiple mistakes. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3808	Posted - 2017.03.03 20:29:48 - [1208] - Quote I'm open to increasing the response time of concord. Given more time to gank, the gankers will use less bodies. At the same time anti-gankers have more opportunity to prevent a gank. But it's a thing with carebears that they must ruin the game for themselves. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3881	Posted - 2017.03.03 20:30:52 - [1209] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: So...you are suggesting increasing the CONCORD response times, but allowing for more fitting options? Like say some form of weaponry? At least that is a new idea vs. the usual rants. I guess I'd be a oh so slightly worried about fatigue and NS but that would depend on the weapon systems I guess. Could be an interesting discussion. I would still argue that a single pilot/ship should not generally be a match for an entire fleet of ships. Effectively yes, I'll agree to disagree on some of your other points, or at least on the relevance of them, though I agree most ship kills are blink and you miss them, and I also regard that as a bad thing even in Null fleet vs fleet combat. I also agree that a single ship/pilot should still go down vs a group. The vision I see is industrials being somewhat akin to WW2 bombers vs fighters. They can have tank, prop mods, and some unbonused weapons (Say 3-4 Med sized weapons with zero bonuses, maybe up to large weapon allowances on freighters). Cargo expanders get a stacking penalty so it's not an all or nothing, because really, non stacking % based mods were always a bad idea. So yeah, a lone industrial is still going to explode not a problem. But you can then have impromptu or organised convoys of industrials. And putting 10 industrials in a convoy together then presents a harder target. Now yes, you 'could' use escorts currently, but A: The gank is over too fast for escorts to have much influence. & B: Escorts are worthless if no gank is attempted, resulting in lost income. By having the industrials doing a self convoy you get a similar effect to what CCP did with the Porpoise & Rorqual. 1v1 they are outgunned by a dedicated combat ship their own size, but in a larger group they can beat off or at least inflict losses on an attacking group. (Or sometimes just be so overwhelmed they die anyway). But if no attack happens they are still useful and doing their primary task. So with longer gank timers, and industrials able to 'self escort' by forming convoys, you would hopefully see a lot more interaction & chaos. As well as more interesting fights in high sec since Concord wouldn't be along in 10 seconds to stop all the shooting. (& no more lag from 500 concord ships, oh god. Meaning you could smart bomb jita undock if you really wanted to with BS to tank the station guns also)
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6040	Posted - 2017.03.03 20:40:10 - [1210] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: So...you are suggesting increasing the CONCORD response times, but allowing for more fitting options? Like say some form of weaponry? At least that is a new idea vs. the usual rants. I guess I'd be a oh so slightly worried about fatigue and NS but that would depend on the weapon systems I guess. Could be an interesting discussion. I would still argue that a single pilot/ship should not generally be a match for an entire fleet of ships. Effectively yes, I'll agree to disagree on some of your other points, or at least on the relevance of them, though I agree most ship kills are blink and you miss them, and I also regard that as a bad thing even in Null fleet vs fleet combat. I also agree that a single ship/pilot should still go down vs a group. The vision I see is industrials being somewhat akin to WW2 bombers vs fighters. They can have tank, prop mods, and some unbonused weapons (Say 3-4 Med sized weapons with zero bonuses, maybe up to large weapon allowances on freighters). Cargo expanders get a stacking penalty so it's not an all or nothing, because really, non stacking % based mods were always a bad idea. So yeah, a lone industrial is still going to explode not a problem. But you can then have impromptu or organised convoys of industrials. And putting 10 industrials in a convoy together then presents a harder target. Now yes, you 'could' use escorts currently, but A: The gank is over too fast for escorts to have much influence. & B: Escorts are worthless if no gank is attempted, resulting in lost income. By having the industrials doing a self convoy you get a similar effect to what CCP did with the Porpoise & Rorqual. 1v1 they are outgunned by a dedicated combat ship their own size, but in a larger group they can beat off or at least inflict losses on an attacking group. (Or sometimes just be so overwhelmed they die anyway). But if no attack happens they are still useful and doing their primary task. So with longer gank timers, and industrials able to 'self escort' by forming convoys, you would hopefully see a lot more interaction & chaos. As well as more interesting fights in high sec since Concord wouldn't be along in 10 seconds to stop all the shooting. (& no more lag from 500 concord ships, oh god. Meaning you could smart bomb jita undock if you really wanted to with BS to tank the station guns also) Okay...interesting. Much better than the OP, at least it is a new idea. Need to think about it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6040	Posted - 2017.03.03 20:45:17 - [1211] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: I'm open to increasing the response time of concord. Given more time to gank, the gankers will use less bodies. At the same time anti-gankers have more opportunity to prevent a gank. But it's a thing with carebears that they must ruin the game for themselves. Ain't that the truth. I imagine the typical carebear reaction to Nevyn's idea would be horror. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 60	Posted - 2017.03.03 23:05:57 - [1212] - Quote DrysonBennington wrote: The goal is to get Pilots engaging the gankers and providing escorts from a few systems out to hauler pilots. And how you would like to do it? Gank the Gankers are they are not even suspects?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27926	Posted - 2017.03.03 23:24:06 - [1213] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: DrysonBennington wrote: The goal is to get Pilots engaging the gankers and providing escorts from a few systems out to hauler pilots. And how you would like to do it? Gank the Gankers are they are not even suspects? Your ignorance is showing again, you can shoot at most of them freely due to their security status. You're not very good at this are you? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3811	Posted - 2017.03.04 00:14:11 - [1214] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: DrysonBennington wrote: The goal is to get Pilots engaging the gankers and providing escorts from a few systems out to hauler pilots. And how you would like to do it? Gank the Gankers are they are not even suspects? I thought ganking was easy and risk free?? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1000	Posted - 2017.03.04 03:30:05 - [1215] - Quote Totally relevant. Rip Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 60	Posted - 2017.03.04 08:04:59 - [1216] - Quote @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain";
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 505	Posted - 2017.03.04 10:59:29 - [1217] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 61	Posted - 2017.03.04 11:05:35 - [1218] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument. Wooot?! hahaha :) yeah so far they didn't point anything, same as you =] that it's called a trolling;
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27930	Posted - 2017.03.04 11:31:13 - [1219] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument. Wooot?! hahaha :) yeah so far they didn't point anything, same as you =] that it's called a trolling; I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag. That is a fact, something you and friends appear to have difficulty with. Please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 505	Posted - 2017.03.04 11:59:09 - [1220] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument. Wooot?! hahaha :) yeah so far they didn't point anything, same as you =] that it's called a trolling; I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag. That is a fact, not an opinion; there's a significant difference between them which you, and your friends, have apparently failed to grasp. Now, please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling. He can't and he won't. <^.^> I'm a cat lol

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27932	Posted - 2017.03.04 12:32:50 - [1221] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: He can't and he won't. I know, but he'll post some garbled nonsense anyway, and I shall be amused by it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3816	Posted - 2017.03.04 15:06:07 - [1222] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Case in point. Rather than argue your position you attack others. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 61	Posted - 2017.03.04 15:26:38 - [1223] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: @Jonah Gravenstein @Daichi Yamato So much trolling; Didn't know that wood have ability to write on a keyboard or they hire someone for them to do it? This is the last time when i'm answering for a bullshit what it's came out of your "called brain"; Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument. Wooot?! hahaha :) yeah so far they didn't point anything, same as you =] that it's called a trolling; I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag. That is a fact, not an opinion; there's a significant difference between them which you, and your friends, have apparently failed to grasp. Now, please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling. That's a last answer for you as you liar and trying to mess with others brains (at least they got it); Here is yours "easy to kill targets cause of security status not effort at all pure ownage" Killing a suicide gangers But like I said - as you are just a pure TROLL, lying others and trying to looks as a smart one... I'm not gonna answer for any of your post - so this is the last one.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27932	Posted - 2017.03.04 16:13:33 - [1224] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag. That is a fact, not an opinion; there's a significant difference between them which you, and your friends, have apparently failed to grasp. Now, please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling. That's a last answer for you as you liar and trying to mess with others brains (at least they got it); Here is yours "easy to kill targets cause of security status not effort at all pure ownage" Killing a suicide gangers But like I said - as you are just a pure TROLL, lying others and trying to looks as a smart one... I'm not gonna answer for any of your post - so this is the last one. I never said that they were easy to kill, that it would have been a lie. I said that due to their security status they could be shot at freely, which isn't a lie. Looking at the overview in that video they appear to have outlaw status (security status between -4.95 and -10) and are therefore free to be engaged by anybody. If that was the case Sir Livingstone didn't need to purchase the killrights on those players heads in order to kill them. Now.... where's the lie? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
ganks theman Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 4	Posted - 2017.03.04 16:17:40 - [1225] - Quote the way things are right now suicide ganking doesn't need to become an easier task ganks theman =-á gangster man :P
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 61	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:03:12 - [1226] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag. That is a fact, not an opinion; there's a significant difference between them which you, and your friends, have apparently failed to grasp. Now, please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling. That's a last answer for you as you liar and trying to mess with others brains (at least they got it); Here is yours "easy to kill targets cause of security status not effort at all pure ownage" Killing a suicide gangers But like I said - as you are just a pure TROLL, lying others and trying to looks as a smart one... I'm not gonna answer for any of your post - so this is the last one. I never said that they would be easy to kill, that would have been a lie. I said that due to their security status most could be shot at freely, which definitely isn't a lie. That Sir Livingstone purchased the killrights on those players heads in order to kill them suggests that their security status was above -5, which is the threshold for being a free to engage target based on security status; -5 to -10 being the range in which anybody can freely shoot at you in highsec without needing killrights or flags. Now.... where's the lie? Should we add the truth and lies to the ever growing list of things that you and your friends don't understand? Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out;
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27934	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:28:49 - [1227] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 508	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:40:08 - [1228] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? Well, you disagreed with him and pointed out the flaws in his posts. You stupid troll! <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6043	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:42:45 - [1229] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? Not only that but from the video we see he got 2 tornadoes, that alone could be enough for foil a specific gank. Yes, they may very well reship and come back, but the freighter they did have in mind of ganking may very well be in a 0.8 or even a 0.9 system. That is, you don't have to kill them all, just enough so that their DPS drops low enough to prevent the gank. You can also try to scan these guys down too ya know. Scan them down, warp into the middle of them, scram some release drones and start shooting. But nooo. That isn't good enough. Anyone getting the impression these guys are just fecking lazy as Hell? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 61	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:46:18 - [1230] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? Show me a prove that "many do not" - as repairing their status is cheap and ez;

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 61	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:48:43 - [1231] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? Not only that but from the video we see he got 2 tornadoes, that alone could be enough for foil a specific gank. Yes, they may very well reship and come back, but the freighter they did have in mind of ganking may very well be in a 0.8 or even a 0.9 system. That is, you don't have to kill them all, just enough so that their DPS drops low enough to prevent the gank. You can also try to scan these guys down too ya know. Scan them down, warp into the middle of them, scram some release drones and start shooting. But nooo. That isn't good enough. Anyone getting the impression these guys are just fecking lazy as Hell? ** im done with that massive ** of trolls; You just throw at them with evidence and they still trying to prove you that "it's fine like it is" fck u :) no more respond from a twats like u =]
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 508	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:51:37 - [1232] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; The relevant word was "most", which is not the same as all. Certainly some gankers do pay for tags to repair their sec status, however many do not. Now that we've got that out of the way, where did I tell a lie, and how was I trolling? Show me a prove that "many do not" - as repairing their status is cheap and ez; It depends on who needs to and who doesn't. Those who simply undock and gank won't bother. Those who sit at gates, blapping the juicy targets before they move on need to fix their sec status. Also, repairing sec status is tedious as it's not just a click of a button, the tags must be turned in by the character in question. Also, isn't the effective cost per gank like 20mil ISK a pop? Serious question, I'm really not sure. Anyone with actual info on that? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6043	Posted - 2017.03.04 18:55:48 - [1233] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: ** im done with that massive ** of trolls; You just throw at them with evidence and they still trying to prove you that "it's fine like it is" fck u :) no more respond from a twats like u =] What evidence? Your own video shows it is possible to shoot these guys. He blapped 2 tornados, got some loot, and then was bribed to leave them alone. Sounds like a totally valid counter to me. You are bitching and whining and crying like a punk. Why? Because, well...to be honest either you suck or your are lazy, possibly both. Get a few friends. Fleet up. Fit a ship with probes, scan the bastards down if they are at a ping. Warp into them and then you and your buddies shoot everyone that either has a kill right or has a low enough sec status. If they have 15 guys and you kill 5 and now they don't have enough DPS...no gank until those guys come back. You win, for now. And good thing is every time they gank somebody they acquire a new kill right. Get off your arse and go shoot them vs. crying here. And if HS scrubs would stop putting tens of millions to activate their kill rights they'd likely make it even easier to shoot the gankers. But nope, the losers are either greedy or just ignorant of how the system works. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27937	Posted - 2017.03.04 19:05:40 - [1234] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: the losers are either greedy or just ignorant of how the system works. Well, they are generally the same numbskulls that think cramming their freighters full of isk and then using Autopillock* is a good idea. Stupid is as stupid does. *Thanks to a random guy on the Eve facebook page for this gem of a word, told him I was going to steal it. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6043	Posted - 2017.03.04 19:22:44 - [1235] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: the losers are either greedy or just ignorant of how the system works. Well, they are generally the same numbskulls that think cramming their freighters full of isk and then using Autopillock* is a good idea. Stupid is as stupid does. *Thanks to a random guy on the Eve facebook page for this gem of a word, told him I was going to steal it. Indeed, greed and stupidity is a dangerous combination. And yes, pillock is a wonderful word. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27938	Posted - 2017.03.04 19:28:37 - [1236] - Quote ^^ That it is, it's a very English word and as a Brit I've used it for years. What I never considered was using it in combination with auto as a synonym for Autopilot In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Wanda Fayne 541	Posted - 2017.03.04 21:29:52 - [1237] - Quote If I had an isk for everytime the word 'troll' used in this thread, I'd be well on my way to buy that Chameleon I wantz... your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic -Lan Wang- - Locator Agents cease to function on Offline Players:
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1497	Posted - 2017.03.04 21:49:34 - [1238] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: hardly! I expected to lose that ship. Note that its completely empty!! You put 360m in mods on a freighter and do not expect to get ganked . Remove standings and insurance.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47152	Posted - 2017.03.04 21:53:05 - [1239] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; Show me a prove that "many do not" - as repairing their status is cheap and ez; I just pulled the last 2500 kills by CODE. Total ganks analysed:2543 Total CODE. members involved:112 % of CODE. members as outlaw when ganking:78.6% (88 of 112) % of CODE. members not outlaw when ganking:21.4% % of outlaw ganks: 93.7% (2382 of 2543) % of not outlaw ganks:6.3% (161 of 2543) The CODE. attackers on killmails are outlaw 93.7% of the time. You can repeat the analysis yourself if you like. Here's the data: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aARjRfZTlmd3dETUk This result is consistent across months of checking data. >90% of CODE. attackers that appear on killmails are outlaw. CODE. of course aren't the only gankers in existence, just the most active. ____________________________________________ And here are the names: NameSec Status# Ganks Zane Arnolles -1032 Aaaarrgg -10138 Skiff Poddington -1046 Kiara Successfuel -1013 Kirigi -1028 Milkmypigeon -1015 Kibbera -1076 Count Ragnar Danneskjold -1025 Koiji -1028 Agent Hex -102 Captain Cortar -1024 Ralliana -102 Jeremiah Kusion -1047 Yabba Dabba Do -1010 ST0NER SMURFETTE -101 Brutal Anna -108 Keraina Talie-Kuo -1077 Perlo Tissant -108 Mack Poddington -1044 Knackered Old Goat -102 Guybertini -1058 Jackson Kusion -1046 ST0NER SMURF -101 Ima Wreckyou -104 Ngoq TlhamChu' ChutEnforce -107 PostOp Transexual -1013 Kanji Kan -1028 Luna Nightblood -101 Alt 00 -1029 Photon Death -1057 Plasma Death -1061 Mildron Klinker -1090 Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri -1026 Andrea Ellecon -103 Mark Eting -108 Pod-Goo Repoman -109 Lament von Gankenheim -102 Jack Van Impe -103 Joseph Kusion -1047 Lillie Naari -1028 Tender Sometimes -108 NotTheSmartestCookie -1042 Hulk Poddington -1045 Molly Klinker -1082 GR13Fy -1017 Alexander Kirenski -1010 Fiddly Pop -1043 Jason Kusion -1054 V-ktor Dolus -102 Joel Kusion -1050 Joshua Kusion -1049 Hide Yo Hulks -105 Spine Ripper -1011 Justin Kusion -1050 Charlie Nelson Reilly -103 Krominal -1043 Vilinensis Octoria -102 Liek DarZ -1064 Jake Kusion -1050 Lawrence Lawton -1051 Brigantine M2 -105 Pod-Goo RepoWoman -1062 Johnathan Kusion -1046 Jana Grebb -1020 DEVILISH ST0NER SMURF -101 Eleni Helios -1015 Tisiphone Dira -1057 Alt Proxy -1021 Jayden Kusion -1050 Rick Therapist -1013 Gavril Ilizarov -105 Lichelle Marie -9.934 Agrona Martin -9.85 Baby Lemba -9.813 Lemba -9.710 Kill-Chan -9.613 Cautiously Pessimistic -9.537 I Can't Even -9.43 Booka Shade -8.93 Ron Chi -8.92 Marshall Mathars -6.91 Zombiepilot -6.93 achterlijke -6.79 Zopiclone -6.642 007 JBond -6.653 Duratan Muhahaha -66 Savin Aulmais -5.51 Nitetime Video -524 Sasha Nemtsov -4.92 William Morgane -4.52 Dude Magic -4.512 Marina Gankalot -4.16 Calrizzan -3.715 Lisa Tancos -3.77 Pod-Goo Repairman -3.26 Starshade -31 Tax Collector Discotime -2.98 Edward T'each -2.81 Snigie Audanie -2.723 Pod Destroyer Molly -2.36 Aaaarrggs Scout Alt -1.91 Super Perforator -1.917 Tax Collector Emile -1.81 Semtex Attor -1.76 Halifax Novacane -1.56 Tax Collector Richard -0.513 Jason Seitz -0.23 Ruby Daniella -0.22 Taxman Daniel -0.19 FightMeNow 03 Carebears' Nightmare 0.39 Dom Arkaral 4.92
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:11:57 - [1240] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Not only that but from the video we see he got 2 tornadoes, that alone could be enough for foil a specific gank. Yes, they may very well reship and come back, but the freighter they did have in mind of ganking may very well be in a 0.8 or even a 0.9 system. That is, you don't have to kill them all, just enough so that their DPS drops low enough to prevent the gank. You can also try to scan these guys down too ya know. Scan them down, warp into the middle of them, scram some release drones and start shooting. But nooo. That isn't good enough. Anyone getting the impression these guys are just fecking lazy as Hell? Those who operate out of jita v do not gank in tornados like this. These tornados are not the ones who are ignoring faction police mechanics. They are keeping their security status in check to continue their ganks in highsec. The problem is the 30-40 man fleet running out of jita V (goons, karmafleet, gimme da loot, etc) that stay invulnerable in warp until the target is reached (the one being bumped and not able to get away). Then within a few seconds of attacking the freighter is wrecked. There is not much you can do to prevent the freighter loss unless a small AG fleet criminally ganks the bumper before the squad arrives. This logic is useless though because now AG takes security status hits and is viewed as a criminal without even making any profit. That's why no one cares to gank the bumper. The tornado guy's are banking the the way it should be done (managing security status). The fleet gankers are the ones abusing system mechanics.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:15:44 - [1241] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: hardly! I expected to lose that ship. Note that its completely empty!! You put 360m in mods on a freighter and do not expect to get ganked . I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 510	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:21:26 - [1242] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: These tornados are not the ones who are ignoring faction police mechanics. Criminals that ignore faction police mechanics are the criminals that die to faction police mechanics. Quote: The problem is the 30-40 man fleet running out of jita V (goons, karmafleet, gimme da loot, etc) that stay invulnerable in warp until the target is reached You're upset that a 30-40 man fleet is effective at taking down one target? Wow. Quote: (the one being bumped and not able to get away) The one that overloaded his freighter. The one that didn't use a scout or any intel system. The one that anti-tanked his freighter. The one without a webbing escort. The one that didn't double-wrap his valuable cargo. The one that no one seems interested to help. Quote: Then within a few seconds of attacking the freighter is wrecked. Fun fact: Many fights in EVE are decided before anyone fires a single shot. This is hardly an exceptional scenario. Quote: There is not much you can do to prevent the freighter loss unless a small AG fleet criminally ganks the bumper before the squad arrives. That's fine. Ganking is both cheap and easy, right? "This logic is useless though because now AG takes security status hits and is viewed as a criminal without even making any profit." That's really stupid. Why not make a profit by charging the freighter pilot a fee to break the tackle? Charge say, 200-300mil ISK which should result in a tidy profit even if you lose a ship/sec status. The freighter pilot saves his billions of ISK in spaceship and loot. Win-win. "The tornado guy's are banking the the way it should be done (managing security status). The fleet gankers are the ones abusing system mechanics." In your opinion. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 510	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:23:38 - [1243] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47154	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:27:53 - [1244] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:31:22 - [1245] - Quote @Hiasa Kite I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:31:54 - [1246] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:32:26 - [1247] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely. You completely missed the point I was making.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 510	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:32:43 - [1248] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: @Hiasa Kite I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous. At first I thought you were just stupid. Now I strongly suspect you're a troll. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:33:43 - [1249] - Quote oy Erich, 5 pages later and I'm still waiting for those mechanics Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:35:34 - [1250] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:36:32 - [1251] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: oy Erich, 5 pages later and I'm still waiting for those mechanics Wait as long as you wish because you are a confirmed ganker and will troll anything anyone says.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:37:47 - [1252] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: you are a confirmed ganker As is every player who does pvp #burn Another proof that this whole thread is just you trying to get attention hahahahahaha Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:40:10 - [1253] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: you are a confirmed ganker As is every player who does pvp #burn Another proof that this whole thread is just you trying to get attention hahahahahaha You are seriously stupid ... faction warfare is not considered ganking.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 510	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:41:36 - [1254] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees. Or team up with someone else. Shocking concept in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game, I know. Edit: That said, it's common for freighter pilots to have multiple accounts, anyway on account of the fact that freight is both time consuming and boring. Play one account while the other makes money. Not my cup of tea but I can appreciate why others do it. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 510	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:42:23 - [1255] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: you are a confirmed ganker As is every player who does pvp #burn Another proof that this whole thread is just you trying to get attention hahahahahaha You are seriously stupid ... faction warfare is not considered ganking. In your opinion. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:43:55 - [1256] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees. Or team up with someone else. Shocking concept in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game, I know. So now you have to split the pathetic contract rewards with someone else. Ok 10 gates. That's 1.5mil for and 1.5mil for me.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47154	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:44:15 - [1257] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely. You completely missed the point I was making. No, I didn't at all. I understood what you were saying, but there's really no excuse for Freighter pilots who end up in a bumped situation. It's totally avoidable to begin with.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:45:37 - [1258] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: you are a confirmed ganker As is every player who does pvp #burn Another proof that this whole thread is just you trying to get attention hahahahahaha You are seriously stupid ... faction warfare is not considered ganking. In your opinion. LLLLLLLOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47154	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:45:55 - [1259] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:46:53 - [1260] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely. You completely missed the point I was making. No, I didn't at all. I understood what you were saying, but there's really no excuse for Freighter pilots who end up in a bumped situation. It's totally avoidable to begin with. Yeah, by paying twice as much to play the game.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:48:21 - [1261] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47155	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:48:54 - [1262] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely. You completely missed the point I was making. No, I didn't at all. I understood what you were saying, but there's really no excuse for Freighter pilots who end up in a bumped situation. It's totally avoidable to begin with. Yeah, by paying twice as much to play the game. If you had a Machariel, how is switching that to a Rapier, Huginn or Loki paying twice as much? Honest question. How is switching from 1 ship to another, twice the cost to play? As for other Freighter pilots, it is just as possible, with 2 players, not 2 accounts. However, it is all totally a choice. Not compulsory. Manage risk, or don't and if the choice is to manage risk by having a Machariel, then the better choice is to switch that Machariel out for a much more effective strategy. If 2 characters can defeat a fleet of 20 by not ever being bumped to begin with, then that's better than those 20 other players. This game is full of alts and no one is suggesting people pay more than they are willing/can afford to pay. Find a friend if you are a true one account hero. However, if you are going to fly a Freighter around, don't expect to be safe if you take no precautions. That's your choice. Wear the consequences.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 511	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:53:40 - [1263] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: So now you have to split the pathetic contract rewards with someone else. Ok 10 gates. That's 1.5mil for you and 1.5mil for me. Or chance it and go solo. The majority of freighters do just fine, anyway. If they didn't, you wouldn't be settling for a lousy 3mil ISK for a 10 jump courier contract, would you? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:53:53 - [1264] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: you are a confirmed ganker As is every player who does pvp #burn Another proof that this whole thread is just you trying to get attention hahahahahaha You are seriously stupid ... faction warfare is not considered ganking. ganking is another term for killing... back at ya homey Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:55:33 - [1265] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. It might be that 2 of those were assumed to be ganks, since there was no indication of a wardec. yeah or maybe a mtu :P I just think it's funny when I see my sec status, then CODE. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 511	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:55:50 - [1266] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. Should get rid of that Mach and go for a Rapier, Huginn or web Loki instead. No need to worry about trying to bump the bumper. Just avoid it completely. You completely missed the point I was making. No, I didn't at all. I understood what you were saying, but there's really no excuse for Freighter pilots who end up in a bumped situation. It's totally avoidable to begin with. Yeah, by paying twice as much to play the game. Or teaming up with other people. Not a terrible idea considering how readily such a strategy counters 30-40 (your count) people, eh? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:56:13 - [1267] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: So now you have to split the pathetic contract rewards with someone else. Ok 10 gates. That's 1.5mil for you and 1.5mil for me. Or chance it and go solo. The majority of freighters do just fine, anyway. If they didn't, you wouldn't be settling for a lousy 3mil ISK for a 10 jump courier contract, would you? It's like miners, who knows why they do it for just low wages, but they do...
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:56:44 - [1268] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. hahahahaha someone didn't get the memo hahahahahaahha Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47157	Posted - 2017.03.04 22:57:55 - [1269] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. Another case of if the data doesn't support your claim, you'll ignore it, even though you can totally go and repeat the analysis and look at whoever you like. You aren't interested in evidence at all; and certainly not in validating whether your own views are true.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:01:20 - [1270] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. Another case of if the data doesn't support your claim, you'll ignore it, even though you can totally go and repeat the analysis and look at whoever you like. You aren't interested in evidence at all; and certainly not in validating whether your own views are true. Sorry ... what were you trying to say here.

Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 511	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:01:36 - [1271] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: So now you have to split the pathetic contract rewards with someone else. Ok 10 gates. That's 1.5mil for you and 1.5mil for me. Or chance it and go solo. The majority of freighters do just fine, anyway. If they didn't, you wouldn't be settling for a lousy 3mil ISK for a 10 jump courier contract, would you? It's like miners, who knows why they do it for just low wages, but they do... There seems to be like, five people who genuinely do it for fun. The rest just seem to be lazy and/or stupid. It's the nature of the problem, really. Some people just settle for lower paying professions simply because they're easy rather than rewarding. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 511	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:02:32 - [1272] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. Another case of if the data doesn't support your claim, you'll ignore it, even though you can totally go and repeat the analysis and look at whoever you like. You aren't interested in evidence at all; and certainly not in validating whether your own views are true. Sorry ... what were you trying to say here. You fobbed off his data with a rumour CODE. had shut down. It was a ruse and they're as active as they've ever been. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47157	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:03:57 - [1273] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Sorry ... what were you trying to say here. That despite claiming to have Engineering and Computer Science degrees and knowing what a proof is, you aren't actually interested in proof at all. You aren't interested in testing whether your assumptions are true, just in dismissing anything that doesn't suit your preconceived idea. You're a charlatan.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1497	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:05:01 - [1274] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees. That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Remove standings and insurance.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:05:44 - [1275] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. hahahahaha someone didn't get the memo hahahahahaahha Cute....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:07:01 - [1276] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees. That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:07:57 - [1277] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: I was using as a test. It shows that you can not equip a freighter which is fast enough to get away from a bumper. When faced with violence, freighters fare much better with an escort, preferably one with dual webs to get them into warp long before bump tackle can be established. Quote: I even had a mach myself and bumping the aggressive mach away still was not enough to give the freighter enough time to get into warp. What about creating warp points on the trajectory that the bumper(s) is keeping the freighter on? Hence you can not play the game as a freighter unless you pay twice as much as everyone else in subscription fees. That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Too bad I know plenty of lowsec pilots who run solo in a cap.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 513	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:09:07 - [1278] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:10:56 - [1279] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:14:23 - [1280] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up. Do you have any proof to back up the implementation of your idea? /me gets some more popcorn Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47161	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:16:01 - [1281] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up. It's an opinion. Existing is it's own proof that it's what his opinion is. He isn't claiming it as fact. That whole section of his post starts "In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind..." What more proof do you want that he thinks that?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:17:31 - [1282] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up. Do you have any proof to back up the implementation of your idea? /me gets some more popcorn Your pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1497	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:19:04 - [1283] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Too bad I know plenty of lowsec pilots who run solo in a cap. And I've known wh pilots who knew how to get their freighter safely from their hole through ls to the first hs system. From there they used Red Frog to get their stuff to Jita. In hindsight it's a pity I never asked them why . Remove standings and insurance.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:19:12 - [1284] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: He isn't claiming it as fact. That whole section of his post starts "In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind..." What more proof do you want that he thinks that? Why is his opinion what it is. There has to be proof that has lead him to his own opinion. Otherwise hes just crazy.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 513	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:21:26 - [1285] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up. It's an opinion. It comes from me and is based purely on my interpretation of the game. I am not pushing this idea on anyone as I'm not even convinced it would be a good thing for the game as a whole - I just see (jump) freighters as something that inhibits my enjoyment of the game and would like to see them changed because of that. That's the difference between you and me. We both have opinions, but I'm not deluded into thinking that just because it seems good at a glance for me that it would be good for the game overall. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47161	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:21:34 - [1286] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Your next claim in the OP is: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled. Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:23:32 - [1287] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one +¡n highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship. Preach it sister.... In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO. In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up. It's an opinion. It comes from me and is based purely on my interpretation of the game. I am not pushing this idea on anyone as I'm not even convinced it would be a good thing for the game as a whole - I just see (jump) freighters as something that inhibits my enjoyment of the game and would like to see them changed because of that. That's the difference between you and me. We both have opinions, but I'm not deluded into thinking that just because it seems good at a glance for me that it would be good for the game overall. How is the OP good for my gameplay again. Wouldn't #SwoopSalvage be losing isk with this.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:24:31 - [1288] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47161	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:26:10 - [1289] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling. Link it for me. I've looked and cannot find any evidence posted. So if it is there as you claim, then you should be able to point me to it, surely. I'm not trolling. If you are getting all emotional over my posts, I apologise. It's not my intent. I'm just trying to get a factual basis for what is being argued here.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:29:40 - [1290] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling. Link it for me. I've looked and cannot find any evidence posted. So if it is there as you claim, then you should be able to point me to it, surely. I'm not trolling. If you are getting all emotional over my posts, I apologise. It's not my intent. I'm just trying to get a factual basis for what is being argued here. Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list.

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1001	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:33:37 - [1291] - Quote He asked you to link it, you can't link it because it's not there what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:36:17 - [1292] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Your next claim in the OP is: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled. Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket? Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:38:05 - [1293] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: He asked you to link it, you can't link it because it's not there what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? I'm not going to waist my time... It's already there. When I post it, you will quickly troll it and it will become one of the "previous posts" again
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47163	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:40:11 - [1294] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. Same analysis repeated for Goonswarm Federation for the last 1200 ship ganks: Total ganks:1200 % outlaw:25.2% % not outlaw:74.8% % outlaw attackers:60.0% % not outlaw attackers:40.0% 60% of Goon attackers appearing on ganks are outlaw. They have far more people involved than CODE. (given Burn Jita, it's no surprise), but the bulk of ganking involves outlaw characters. So back to the request to show proof that many do not repair their sec status, what more do you want? Oh; and if you want to go look yourself, here's the data I pulled: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aAWTI3RU5nQ0IwTEU
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 513	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:41:42 - [1295] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 513	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:42:28 - [1296] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: He asked you to link it, you can't link it because it's not there what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? I'm not going to waist my time... It's already there. When I post it, you will quickly troll it and it will become one of the "previous posts" again Because it's not evidence. You've not once, throughout this entire thread posted any evidence to support your claim that ganking would benefit from a change such as yours. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47163	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:44:31 - [1297] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list. So, you can't even point to even a single piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread that can be discussed that supports your claims? Not even one? At least that confirms my own reading of the thread.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:46:44 - [1298] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Dom Arkaral 4.92 hahahahah this is gold edit: wooo for 1k likes love you too Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks. Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete. Same analysis repeated for Goonswarm Federation for the last 1200 ship ganks: Total ganks:1200 % outlaw:25.2% % not outlaw:74.8% % outlaw attackers:60.0% % not outlaw attackers:40.0% 60% of Goon attackers appearing on ganks are outlaw. They have far more people involved than CODE. (given Burn Jita, it's no surprise), but the bulk of ganking involves outlaw characters. So back to the request to show proof that many do not repair their sec status, what more do you want? Oh; and if you want to go look yourself, here's the data I pulled: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aAWTI3RU5nQ0IwTEU Where are you getting the term oitlaw... This isn't the wild west. Please explain why you are not just using the word criminal.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47165	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:48:50 - [1299] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. So your evidence for your claims is that we should all go find our own evidence to support you? What if I do that and find out that your claim is not true? Will you believe me? I doubt it, which makes this a very poor basis for evidence. You can either support your claims, or you can't. So far, you can't.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47165	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:51:47 - [1300] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Where are you getting the term oitlaw... This isn't the wild west. Please explain why you are not just using the word criminal. OMG. Outlaw is the game term for someone with a security status <= -5.0 Criminal is the terms for someone criminally flagged for 15 minutes. They are not the same thing. I can go criminal by committing a criminal action, but that doesn't make me an outlaw. If I drop my sec status down, then I can be attacked at any point by anyone because I am an outlaw, even when not carrying a suspect or criminal flag. Here, go read the details: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/introducing-the-new-and-improved-crimewatch/ (crimewatch flags, including mention of assisting outlaws and attacking outlaws) http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Security_status (Eve-Uni wiki which CCP now recommend people use after closing the evewiki)

Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1004	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:51:56 - [1301] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list. So, you can't even point to even a single piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread that can be discussed that supports your claims? Not even one? At least that confirms my own reading of the thread. he has evidence, but it's hidden like the ghostly reputation he has in Black Rise XD Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 515	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:54:27 - [1302] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: He isn't claiming it as fact. That whole section of his post starts "In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind..." What more proof do you want that he thinks that? Why is his opinion what it is. There has to be proof that has lead him to his own opinion. Otherwise hes just crazy. Freighters are extremely effective at moving vast quantities of goods. When used properly they're also very safe, particularly jump freighters. The sheer potency of massive ships that can transport goods through just about any region of space much faster than regular transport ships in complete safety means they dominate the logistics sector. As a player that enjoys small-time f&kery and small trading operations outside the safety of HiSec, that domination denies me a lot of opportunity in my preferred play style. That's where my opinion comes from and why I wouldn't mind seeing JFs go poof* in a cloud of magic dust. That said, the knock on effects could be severe or even disastrous considering many large alliances are very much dependent on JF for their logistic needs. Without adequate replacement, nullsec empires could suffer greatly. I'm not so selfish that I'd make a serious suggestion on the matter because I don't feel my own desire for more profit should outweigh the enjoyment of many thousands of other players. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.04 23:56:48 - [1303] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list. So, you can't even point to even a single piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread that can be discussed that supports your claims? Not even one? At least that confirms my own reading of the thread. he has evidence, but it's hidden like the ghostly reputation he has in Black Rise XD Says the individual who sits in Uedama day in / day-out
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47165	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:02:07 - [1304] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list. So, you can't even point to even a single piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread that can be discussed that supports your claims? Not even one? At least that confirms my own reading of the thread. he has evidence, but it's hidden like the ghostly reputation he has in Black Rise XD Says the individual who sits in Uedama day in / day-out Then just post a link to even one piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:02:49 - [1305] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. And why would a gank team such as karmafleet be interested in anything in highsec but ganking .
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 516	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:06:45 - [1306] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. And why would a gank team such as karmafleet be interested in anything in highsec but ganking . Same reason why anyone would be interested in anything: Fun and profit. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 103	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:09:05 - [1307] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. And why would a gank team such as karmafleet be interested in anything in highsec but ganking . Same reason why anyone would be interested in anything: Fun and profit. That's what their lowsec goon mains are for. Karma fleet is for insane isk generation so that they don't have to pay subscriptions ever.
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1005	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:09:54 - [1308] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. And why would a gank team such as karmafleet be interested in anything in highsec but ganking . Same reason why anyone would be interested in anything: Fun and profit. According to Erich, fun and profit is to be outlawed Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 516	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:21:37 - [1309] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time. Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec: They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them. Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly. And why would a gank team such as karmafleet be interested in anything in highsec but ganking . Same reason why anyone would be interested in anything: Fun and profit. That's what their lowsec goon mains are for. Karma fleet is for insane isk generation so that they don't have to pay subscriptions ever. Don't the ratting figures suggest they make their profit in null by slaughtering NPCs all day e'ry day? I guess there's no reason you can't profit from both. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 113	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:35:47 - [1310] - Quote Come on guys... We can make it to 10000 views. OP needs all-day everyday exposure. I believe in your troll....

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47166	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:40:28 - [1311] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Come on guys... We can make it to 10000 views. OP needs all-day everyday exposure. I believe in your troll.... Unfortunately you are trolling harder then anyone. Views don't make an idea more likely to be implemented. Good, objective argument supported by evidence is the way to influence CCP. Everything else is a complete distraction and more likely to make them take one look, see the rubbish and leave.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:53:15 - [1312] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Everything else is a complete distraction and more likely to make them take one look, see the rubbish and leave. So you admit you have been intentionally trashing the thread for the last 20 pages....
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47170	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:56:55 - [1313] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Everything else is a complete distraction and more likely to make them take one look, see the rubbish and leave. So you admit you have been intentionally trashing the thread for the last 20 pages.... If by asking for evidence of what you claim and posting evidence of my own where I can, then I guess so, but I'm not sure I've been taking part for all of the last 20 pages. But, I'd be happy to discuss this objectively and look at what evidence there is to support the claims in the OP. If you can post some (or a link to even one piece of evidence that I haven't been able to find after looking through the whole thread), that would be a good start.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 518	Posted - 2017.03.05 00:59:05 - [1314] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Everything else is a complete distraction and more likely to make them take one look, see the rubbish and leave. So you admit you have been intentionally trashing the thread for the last 20 pages.... If by asking for evidence of what you claim and posting evidence of my own where I can, then I guess so, but I'm not sure I've been taking part for all of the last 20 pages. But, I'd be happy to discuss this objectively and look at what evidence there is to support the claims in the OP. If you can post some (or a link to even one piece of evidence that I haven't been able to find after looking through the whole thread), that would be a good start. At best, he'll repeat his opinion or tell you to go find it yourself, again. So, we'll he troll again or will he add something new to the conversation. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:09:14 - [1315] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Everything else is a complete distraction and more likely to make them take one look, see the rubbish and leave. So you admit you have been intentionally trashing the thread for the last 20 pages.... If by asking for evidence of what you claim and posting evidence of my own where I can, then I guess so, but I'm not sure I've been taking part for all of the last 20 pages. But, I'd be happy to discuss this objectively and look at what evidence there is to support the claims in the OP. If you can post some (or a link to even one piece of evidence that I haven't been able to find after looking through the whole thread), that would be a good start. Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. If you need easy proof that gankers are ignoring faction police mechanics, just go to Jita V - Moon 17 station and follow them around. You will see that faction police do nothing but trail them around all day long. You will also see that they dont quit warping (to prevent other players targeting their fleet) until they hit their target. Please post a video of yourself preventing them from ganking their target without going criminal yourself. You say that preventing a gank is easy, walk the walk and show us (throught a video) what you are insisting is so easy.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:11:18 - [1316] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: So, we'll he troll again or will he add something new to the conversation. ... and this guy started copy and pasting walls of texts into his posts and has been flagged many times already. Go back and look at his posts 10 to 15 pages ago.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 519	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:17:25 - [1317] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: So, we'll he troll again or will he add something new to the conversation. ... and this guy started copy and pasting walls of texts into his posts and has been flagged many times already. Go back and look at his posts 10 to 15 pages ago. Yeah, just check my post history, this thread is pretty much the only one I've been posting in. You'll see me asking for proof, but I'm just constantly fobbed off and trolled. I must admit I've flagged a few of the most egregious troll attempts. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47170	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:17:55 - [1318] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. I've already gone back and read the whole thread, but I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, so may have missed it. However, having not been able to find even one piece of evidence, I'm just asking because you say it is there. Even just one link to evidence posted earlier? Even a rough guide to the page number of one piece of evidence is enough. It's been stated several times that it is there, so I'll happily go back and read it. Unfortunately, 'in the first 40 pages' is not much help (that's 800 posts), possibly because I'm just not smart enough to recognise where it has been posted.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 519	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:20:32 - [1319] - Quote If the evidence existed, he would've linked it right in the OP. This thread has gone on for over a thousand posts and nothing has been presented. I think it's safe to say at this point it's just a troll thread. Ugh, and I've posted so much in it. Well, 9/10 OP. You got me. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:23:14 - [1320] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. I've already gone back and read the whole thread, but I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, so may have missed it. However, having not been able to find even one piece of evidence, I'm just asking because you say it is there. Even just one link to evidence posted earlier? Even a rough guide to the page number of one piece of evidence is enough. It's been stated several times that it is there, so I'll happily go back and read it. Unfortunately, 'in the first 40 pages' is not much help, possibly because I'm just not smart enough to recognise where it has been posted. Im sorry if you dont understand... not my problem.

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:24:11 - [1321] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: If the evidence existed, he would've linked it right in the OP. This thread has gone on for over a thousand posts and nothing has been presented. I think it's safe to say at this point it's just a troll thread. Ugh, and I've posted so much in it. Well, 9/10 OP. You got me. You'll be here for the next 20 pages making of the wall comments ... Im not concerned about you going anywhere anytime soon.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27939	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:24:14 - [1322] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. He's categorically stated that he has read the thread, and he can't find any evidence. Bizarrely enough pretty much everyone else has also read the thread and failed to find any evidence. The fact that the majority of posters can't find the evidence that you claim to have provided suggests that your claim is untrue, or that we're all liars. The former is much more likely to be true than the latter. Quote: If you need easy proof that gankers are ignoring faction police mechanics, just go to Jita V - Moon 17 station and follow them around. You will see that faction police do nothing but trail them around all day long. You will also see that they dont quit warping (to prevent other players targeting their fleet) until they hit their target. A man with your self proclaimed knowledge of the game mechanics involved should have no trouble figuring out why they're constantly warping around. I'll give you a hint, they're forced to. Quote: Please post a video of yourself preventing them from ganking their target without going criminal yourself. You say that preventing a gank is easy, walk the walk and show us (throught a video) what you are insisting is so easy. You made your claim first, show us a video of you organising the logistics, coordination and finding enough people to gank a freighter, and then executing the plan. You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47170	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:26:10 - [1323] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. I've already gone back and read the whole thread, but I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, so may have missed it. However, having not been able to find even one piece of evidence, I'm just asking because you say it is there. Even just one link to evidence posted earlier? Even a rough guide to the page number of one piece of evidence is enough. It's been stated several times that it is there, so I'll happily go back and read it. Unfortunately, 'in the first 40 pages' is not much help, possibly because I'm just not smart enough to recognise where it has been posted. Im sorry if you dont understand... not my problem. Well, it kind of is. It's not me you need to ultimately convince. It's CCP. Without evidence, your suggestion is going nowhere fast.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:28:19 - [1324] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. I've already gone back and read the whole thread, but I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, so may have missed it. However, having not been able to find even one piece of evidence, I'm just asking because you say it is there. Even just one link to evidence posted earlier? Even a rough guide to the page number of one piece of evidence is enough. It's been stated several times that it is there, so I'll happily go back and read it. Unfortunately, 'in the first 40 pages' is not much help, possibly because I'm just not smart enough to recognise where it has been posted. Im sorry if you dont understand... not my problem. Well, it kind of is. It's not me you need to ultimately convince. It's CCP. Without evidence, your suggestion is going nowhere fast. Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 519	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:32:42 - [1325] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im sorry that you keep insisting I repeat myself just because you joined the thread during its troll stages but if you cant go back and read anything then thats on you. I've already gone back and read the whole thread, but I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, so may have missed it. However, having not been able to find even one piece of evidence, I'm just asking because you say it is there. Even just one link to evidence posted earlier? Even a rough guide to the page number of one piece of evidence is enough. It's been stated several times that it is there, so I'll happily go back and read it. Unfortunately, 'in the first 40 pages' is not much help, possibly because I'm just not smart enough to recognise where it has been posted. Im sorry if you dont understand... not my problem. Well, it kind of is. It's not me you need to ultimately convince. It's CCP. Without evidence, your suggestion is going nowhere fast. Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47171	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:35:07 - [1326] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. You're wrong. This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence. Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here. In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem. So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:36:13 - [1327] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily. Im a solo hero.... My alt Erika Einstein already has a fair amount of Tornado ganks under her belt. If you don't believe me, just check zkill. I've eeven been kicked out of AG channels on that character.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 520	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:36:29 - [1328] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. You're wrong. This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence. Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here. In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem. So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum. I envy them. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:37:20 - [1329] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. You're wrong. This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence. Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here. They already have their own work programs and go collect the data they need for that. In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem, in the areas they have looked at. So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum. bye now ... o/
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:39:12 - [1330] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: he has evidence, but it's hidden like the ghostly reputation he has in Black Rise XD Why don't you ask quickswipe collier how much of a menace I am. He has worked with Kusion more than once in Uedama. We roll together all the time in low / null sec.

Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47171	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:40:48 - [1331] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: bye now ... o/ Are you leaving?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:41:37 - [1332] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47171	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:44:23 - [1333] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. It's a containment thread. ISDs have explained before that they leave threads open well beyond their usefulness at times, because discussion here is at least contained to here and doesn't spill over to other areas of the forum. Leaving idiotic idea threads open is ultimately good for the rest of the threads and everyone not interested in certain issues.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:45:08 - [1334] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. You're wrong. This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence. Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here. In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem. So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum. I envy them. Hey.... your still here. I thought you figured out I was trolling you or something. 9/10 remember. Like I said... your not going anywhere.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:46:19 - [1335] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. It's a containment thread. ISDs have explained before that they leave threads open well beyond their usefulness at times, because discussion here is at least contained to here and doesn't spill over to other areas of the forum. Leaving idiotic idea threads open is ultimately good for the rest of the threads and everyone not interested in certain issues. Not really, I've already commented on other threads about this issue whenever it relates. I link it to social media as well.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27940	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:49:06 - [1336] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily. Im a solo hero.... My alt Erika Einstein already has a fair amount of Tornado ganks under her belt. If you don't believe me, just check zkill. Not what I asked for, yet again you're evading the fact that you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support your claim that suicide ganking is too easy and has no consequences. I wrote: You made your claim first, show us a video of you organising the logistics, coordination and finding enough people to gank a freighter, and then executing the plan. Here's the part you edited out in your attempt to evade my request for evidence. While my request for a video may seem onerous it's the standard of proof that you asked for from Scipio. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:49:17 - [1337] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. ganking QQ .... please explain ... #codeCONTROL nothing but owning code here....
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:50:15 - [1338] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily. Im a solo hero.... My alt Erika Einstein already has a fair amount of Tornado ganks under her belt. If you don't believe me, just check zkill. Not what I asked for, yet again you're evading the fact that you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support your claim that suicide ganking is too easy and has no consequences. I wrote: You made your claim first, show us a video of you organising the logistics, coordination and finding enough people to gank a freighter, and then executing the plan. Here's the part you edited out in your attempt to evade my request for evidence. While my request for a video may seem onerous it's the standard of proof that you asked for from Scipio. see initial posts....
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 520	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:50:28 - [1339] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47172	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:51:20 - [1340] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. It's a containment thread. ISDs have explained before that they leave threads open well beyond their usefulness at times, because discussion here is at least contained to here and doesn't spill over to other areas of the forum. Leaving idiotic idea threads open is ultimately good for the rest of the threads and everyone not interested in certain issues. Not really, I've already commented on other threads about this issue whenever it relates. I link it to social media as well. See under your avatar, your name is a link. It opens a drop down list that lets you check your post history. I stopped at the end of page 15, but not a single post out of this thread. Your last >300 posts in the forum have been in this thread. That's a pretty good example of containment. Once again, the evidence available actually shows you are wrong. Edit: There's only 2 additional pages to your post history past that. Your last 304 posts out of a total post history of 335 posts, have been in this thread. Lol. That's as good a demonstration of containment as anything.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6044	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:51:32 - [1341] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already; Roger out; Show me a prove that "many do not" - as repairing their status is cheap and ez; I just pulled the last 2500 ganks by CODE. Total ganks analysed:2543 Total CODE. members involved:112 % of CODE. members as outlaw when ganking:78.6% (88 of 112) % of CODE. members not outlaw when ganking:21.4% % of outlaw ganks: 93.7% (2382 of 2543) % of not outlaw ganks:6.3% (161 of 2543) The CODE. attackers on gank killmails are outlaw 93.7% of the time. You can repeat the analysis yourself if you like. Here's the data (A total of about 4000 killmails as not all CODE. kills are ganks):: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aARjRfZTlmd3dETUk This result is consistent across months of checking data. >90% of CODE. attackers that appear on killmails are outlaw. CODE. of course aren't the only gankers in existence, just the most active. ____________________________________________ And here are the names: NameSec Status# Ganks Zane Arnolles -1032 Aaaarrgg -10138 Skiff Poddington -1046 Kiara Successfuel -1013 Kirigi -1028 Milkmypigeon -1015 Kibbera -1076 Count Ragnar Danneskjold -1025 Koiji -1028 Agent Hex -102 Captain Cortar -1024 Ralliana -102 Jeremiah Kusion -1047 Yabba Dabba Do -1010 ST0NER SMURFETTE -101 Brutal Anna -108 Keraina Talie-Kuo -1077 Perlo Tissant -108 Mack Poddington -1044 Knackered Old Goat -102 Guybertini -1058 Jackson Kusion -1046 ST0NER SMURF -101 Ima Wreckyou -104 Ngoq TlhamChu' ChutEnforce -107 PostOp Transexual -1013 Kanji Kan -1028 Luna Nightblood -101 Alt 00 -1029 Photon Death -1057 Plasma Death -1061 Mildron Klinker -1090 Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri -1026 Andrea Ellecon -103 Mark Eting -108 Pod-Goo Repoman -109 Lament von Gankenheim -102 Jack Van Impe -103 Joseph Kusion -1047 Lillie Naari -1028 Tender Sometimes -108 NotTheSmartestCookie -1042 Hulk Poddington -1045 Molly Klinker -1082 GR13Fy -1017 Alexander Kirenski -1010 Fiddly Pop -1043 Jason Kusion -1054 V-ktor Dolus -102 Joel Kusion -1050 Joshua Kusion -1049 Hide Yo Hulks -105 Spine Ripper -1011 Justin Kusion -1050 Charlie Nelson Reilly -103 Krominal -1043 Vilinensis Octoria -102 Liek DarZ -1064 Jake Kusion -1050 Lawrence Lawton -1051 Brigantine M2 -105 Pod-Goo RepoWoman -1062 Johnathan Kusion -1046 Jana Grebb -1020 DEVILISH ST0NER SMURF -101 Eleni Helios -1015 Tisiphone Dira -1057 Alt Proxy -1021 Jayden Kusion -1050 Rick Therapist -1013 Gavril Ilizarov -105 Lichelle Marie -9.934 Agrona Martin -9.85 Baby Lemba -9.813 Lemba -9.710 Kill-Chan -9.613 Cautiously Pessimistic -9.537 I Can't Even -9.43 Booka Shade -8.93 Ron Chi -8.92 Marshall Mathars -6.91 Zombiepilot -6.93 achterlijke -6.79 Zopiclone -6.642 007 JBond -6.653 Duratan Muhahaha -66 Savin Aulmais -5.51 Nitetime Video -524 Sasha Nemtsov -4.92 William Morgane -4.52 Dude Magic -4.512 Marina Gankalot -4.16 Calrizzan -3.715 Lisa Tancos -3.77 Pod-Goo Repairman -3.26 Starshade -31 Tax Collector Discotime -2.98 Edward T'each -2.81 Snigie Audanie -2.723 Pod Destroyer Molly -2.36 Aaaarrggs Scout Alt -1.91 Super Perforator -1.917 Tax Collector Emile -1.81 Semtex Attor -1.76 Halifax Novacane -1.56 Tax Collector Richard -0.513 Jason Seitz -0.23 Ruby Daniella -0.22 Taxman Daniel -0.19 FightMeNow 03 Carebears' Nightmare 0.39 Dom Arkaral 4.92 They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case. Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 520	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:52:12 - [1342] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests. You're wrong. This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence. Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here. In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem. So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum. I envy them. Hey.... your still here. I thought you figured out I was trolling you or something. 9/10 remember. Like I said... your not going anywhere. "At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum." I admit I could be wrong, you might not be a troll. But if you're not, God damn you're stupid. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27940	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:52:40 - [1343] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily. Im a solo hero.... My alt Erika Einstein already has a fair amount of Tornado ganks under her belt. If you don't believe me, just check zkill. Not what I asked for, yet again you're evading the fact that you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support your claim that suicide ganking is too easy and has no consequences. I wrote: You made your claim first, show us a video of you organising the logistics, coordination and finding enough people to gank a freighter, and then executing the plan. Here's the part you edited out in your attempt to evade my request for evidence. While my request for a video may seem onerous it's the standard of proof that you asked for from Scipio. see initial posts.... I have, there appears to be a distinct lack of anything that isn't your opinion. Is refer back to my other posts all that you have left? Not that you had much to begin with. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 520	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:52:58 - [1344] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. It's a containment thread. ISDs have explained before that they leave threads open well beyond their usefulness at times, because discussion here is at least contained to here and doesn't spill over to other areas of the forum. Leaving idiotic idea threads open is ultimately good for the rest of the threads and everyone not interested in certain issues. Not really, I've already commented on other threads about this issue whenever it relates. I link it to social media as well. See under your avatar, your name is a link. It opens a drop down list that lets you check your post history. I stopped at the end of page 15, but not a single post out of this thread. Your last >300 posts in the forum have been in this thread. That's a pretty good example of containment. Once again, the evidence available actually shows you are wrong. Edit: There's only 2 additional pages to your post history past that and not a single post on this issue elsewhere. Lol. Foiled again. "Fake evidence"? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6044	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:53:04 - [1345] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not only that but from the video we see he got 2 tornadoes, that alone could be enough for foil a specific gank. Yes, they may very well reship and come back, but the freighter they did have in mind of ganking may very well be in a 0.8 or even a 0.9 system. That is, you don't have to kill them all, just enough so that their DPS drops low enough to prevent the gank. You can also try to scan these guys down too ya know. Scan them down, warp into the middle of them, scram some release drones and start shooting. But nooo. That isn't good enough. Anyone getting the impression these guys are just fecking lazy as Hell? Those who operate out of jita v do not gank in tornados like this. These tornados are not the ones who are ignoring faction police mechanics. They are keeping their security status in check to continue their ganks in highsec. The problem is the 30-40 man fleet running out of jita V (goons, karmafleet, gimme da loot, etc) that stay invulnerable in warp until the target is reached (the one being bumped and not able to get away). Then within a few seconds of attacking the freighter is wrecked. There is not much you can do to prevent the freighter loss unless a small AG fleet criminally ganks the bumper before the squad arrives. This logic is useless though because now AG takes security status hits and is viewed as a criminal without even making any profit. That's why no one cares to gank the bumper. The tornado guy's are ganking the the way it should be done (managing security status). The fleet gankers are the ones abusing system mechanics. So you have a boner for Goons, that makes you even more ridiculous. Changing game mechanics because a specific alliance is using them is lame beyond belief. Either argue the merits or STFU. Stop it with the Grr Goons nonsense it just makes you look stupid. Edit: BTW, if he were doing it with a talos and shooting catalysts or coercers he'd likely be one shotting them and could probably burn through more than he did. Even by his own admission he wasted time targeting pods. Skip that step and you'll likely kill quite a few destroyers. Serioulsy, can you just stop whining and complaining and go out there and find a way to shoot them? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27940	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:56:11 - [1346] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Aaaarrgg -10138 I have it good authority that this man is a force of nature. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6050	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:56:42 - [1347] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: @Hiasa Kite I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous. He addressed every point, that you are obstinately refusing to admit it reflects on you. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:58:12 - [1348] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though. Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Each one of your posts grabs a few random quotes and the you paste a huge paragraph of random text into the bottom of your posts to make them super long.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 525	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:58:15 - [1349] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: @Hiasa Kite I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous. He addressed every point, that you are obstinately refusing to admit it reflects on you. Maybe he literally can't comprehend debate. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47178	Posted - 2017.03.05 01:58:29 - [1350] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case. Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both. The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there.

Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 525	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:00:54 - [1351] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though. Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you. Having checked the post, there is no troll present. Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:01:31 - [1352] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case. Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both. The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there. ... get over it ...
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:03:22 - [1353] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP. Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down. I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though. Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you. Having checked the post, there is no troll present. Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts. Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47178	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:04:34 - [1354] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: ... get over it ... Post some evidence. It can't be hard. You should have all the skills and knowledge you need to get the data, analyse it and post it here.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6050	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:05:07 - [1355] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Your next claim in the OP is: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled. Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket? The OP is, in a word, a liar. 1. Nobody ganks every 15 minutes for 24 hours a day. An organization might, but an organization is not a player, drawing an equivalence there is incredibly dishonest. 2. People with a low sec status are effectively locked out of cruisers and above. Get in a cruisers and chances are the FacPo or players will catch you and kill you. 3. To become a criminal you pretty much have to build up a list of kill rights, which anyone can activate so long as they pay the ISK, and if you want your killer to be killed sooner vs. later, set the kill right to "free to all" vs. trying to get 100 million ISK. So clearly there are consequences to having a low sec status. The OPs claim there is not one is just a blatant lie to further his own personal agenda. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27945	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:07:12 - [1356] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand. The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal. If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6051	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:08:37 - [1357] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case. Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both. The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there. I know, but funnily enough he won't....maybe he can't. If he, or anyone else, pulled the data I'd look at it. I'd pop it into SAS and start turning the data this way, that way, and so forth. Looking to see if indeed there is a problem. But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:10:57 - [1358] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit. The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion. Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions. Let's start with some evidence and work from there. So, for example, the thesis of your OP is: Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in. Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given? Your next claim in the OP is: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled. Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket? The OP is, in a word, a liar. 1. Nobody ganks every 15 minutes for 24 hours a day. An organization might, but an organization is not a player, drawing an equivalence there is incredibly dishonest. 2. People with a low sec status are effectively locked out of cruisers and above. Get in a cruisers and chances are the FacPo or players will catch you and kill you. 3. To become a criminal you pretty much have to build up a list of kill rights, which anyone can activate so long as they pay the ISK, and if you want your killer to be killed sooner vs. later, set the kill right to "free to all" vs. trying to get 100 million ISK. So clearly there are consequences to having a low sec status. The OPs claim there is not one is just a blatant lie to further his own personal agenda. 1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill 2. Great - This pushes people that refuse to manage their security status into null so that they dont have too. More null content. Something that CCP wants. 3.You can activate the low isk killrights yourself to clear them. People wont pay 500mil to activate a killright on you when you are in a destroyer.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:13:36 - [1359] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point. This supports how much isk is being too easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:15:27 - [1360] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand. The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal. If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this. Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well.

Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 403	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:19:11 - [1361] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point. This supports how much isk is being to easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all. Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players. Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47180	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:21:27 - [1362] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: 1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you. Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked? Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also? Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6051	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:22:10 - [1363] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: 1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill 2. Great - This pushes people that refuse to manage their security status into null so that they dont have too. More null content. Something that CCP wants. 3.You can activate the low isk killrights yourself to clear them. People wont pay 500mil to activate a killright on you when you are in a destroyer. A large alliance ganking 24/7 is not a shock. They are after all...wait...wait...wait for it...a large alliance. Dotlan tells me they have over 5,000 members, and even if we give each play an average of 5 alts, which is ridiculously high (my alliance which is old has an average of 6, KarmaFleet is newbie freindly) that means there are over 1,000 players in the alliance. That they can field 10-20 people 24/7 or near enough is not surprising, IMO. So your complaint of 24/7 ganking is just irrelevant to me. Oh...and yeah, KarmaFleet is in which alliance....oh yeah GoonSwarm Federation...with an addtional 19,000 pilots. Lets say that is another 3,000 players. So now we have 4,0000 players who could be ganking 24/7. Wow...that is just...shocking! That 4,000 players could manage to put at least 20-30 people into a fleet 24/7. My God that is just well...completely trivial and banal. Regarding point 2 you keep right on ignoring the point here. That a low sec player has limitations. That they have adapted to it is not a surprise nor a bad thing. Always screwing them over is a bad thing because eventually they'll just leave the game....and looking at PCU over at EVE Offline that might be a bad thing you dope. Yes, people can activate their own kill rights, but that they don't or might not have had a chance to means there is another way to shoot them and not draw CONCORD. Holy crap can you whine any more? Wait...I'm sure you can whine alot more. Can you let me get some cheese first, I got a blue stilton at the store. Let me put some on some crackers first. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:22:13 - [1364] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players. Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank. We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:24:43 - [1365] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: 1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you. Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked? Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also? Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows. Obviously, this is where they stage. Easy access to 4-4 without even having to take their material transport freighter through one gate. They fact that they are able to stage in highsec is even more ridiculous. Look-up on zkill if you need the systems they hit all the time. They are the paths / choke points from jita to amarr.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 525	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:24:56 - [1366] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you. Having checked the post, there is no troll present. Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts. Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll. Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity. Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death. Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed. Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability. Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event. Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url] Asking for evidence. Asking why ganking should be changed. The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856040#post6856040]Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856045#post6856045]Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down. There, done. I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6051	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:25:43 - [1367] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players. Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank. We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight. This is a player driven game. Get off your ass and go kill Kusion and his alts. Stop wanting NPCs to do your work for you. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 403	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:25:46 - [1368] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players. Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank. We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight. I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27945	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:26:32 - [1369] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well. If that's an example of your analytical skills, it's no wonder this thread is full of people asking for evidence. Time stamps don't lie; you do. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:26:53 - [1370] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you. Having checked the post, there is no troll present. Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts. Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll. Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity. Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death. Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed. Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability. Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event. Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url] Asking for evidence. Asking why ganking should be changed. The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856040#post6856040]Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856045#post6856045]Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down. There, done. I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking. Dude no one cares. @scipio Artellus, if you were interested in having a serious conversation, you would be telling this guys to stop posting walls of text.

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6052	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:27:08 - [1371] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you. Having checked the post, there is no troll present. Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts. Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll. Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity. Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death. Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed. Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability. Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event. Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url] Asking for evidence. Asking why ganking should be changed. The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856040#post6856040]Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856045#post6856045]Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves. [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down. There, done. I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking. Hiasa, I'm sorry but you linked only 8 posts. Clearly you are the anti-Christ and a troll. Scipio will you tell Hiasa I will not be liking his posts for the next 5 minutes. Thanks. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 131	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:27:50 - [1372] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll. Hence the edits in the OP CONCORD(edit:Faction Police)
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 526	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:29:58 - [1373] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand. The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal. If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this. Awww f&%k, I didn't realise he was that dumb. Now I'm almost as dumb for thinking he meant the last paragraph in my posts was a troll. Almost. Still more intelligent than a glass of water, at least. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27948	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:30:14 - [1374] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll. Hence the edits in the OP CONCORD(edit:Faction Police) Would you like to explain to the newcomers why you had to edit that? Was it because you didn't know the difference between the Faction Police and Concord despite claiming to understand the mechanics in play? IIRC you called people liars for pointing this out to you. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 47180	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:31:00 - [1375] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: 1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you. Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked? Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also? Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows. Obviously, this is where they stage. Easy access to 4-4 without even having to take their material transport freighter through one gate. They fact that they are able to stage in highsec is even more ridiculous. Look-up on zkill if you need the systems they hit all the time. They are the paths / choke points from jita to amarr. Ok, but which systems are you saying. They clearly don't gank 24/7 in Jita: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/kills/system/30000142/ They only killed 2 pods yesterday, didn't kill anything at all in Jita on 3 March. Only 1 Atron killed on 2 March, only 1 Keres on 1 March. No kills on 28 February. So over just the recent 5 days, they've only killed 2 ships and 2 pods in Jita. That doesn't seem like much to worry about from Karmafleet on the 4-4. So, which other systems should I include so that you will be satisfied with the outcome when the data is pulled through the API?
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 526	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:32:30 - [1376] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point. This supports how much isk is being too easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all. "Hard working" AFK autopiloting freighter pilots. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 526	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:34:05 - [1377] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand. The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal. If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this. Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well. My apologies if my choice of formatting is not to your taste. What would you suggest? A different form of formatting or splitting my responses over multiple posts so I don't go over the limit each time? <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 526	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:35:13 - [1378] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well. I don't type walls of text. Most of my responses consist of a few sentences, maybe a half dozen paragraphs. Hardly rewriting LOTR. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 529	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:37:48 - [1379] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players. Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank. We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight. I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll. Funny, I flagged that post as trolling and derailment before I'd read this one. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3885	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:38:16 - [1380] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Regarding point 2 you keep right on ignoring the point here. That a low sec player has limitations. That they have adapted to it is not a surprise nor a bad thing. Always screwing them over is a bad thing because eventually they'll just leave the game....and looking at PCU over at EVE Offline that might be a bad thing you dope. Lets be real here Teckos. While the rest of your analysis was spot on, and not supporting the Op in any way, this bit is garbage. Alts (or even mains) designed purely for ganking like most of these characters we are talking about are not affected or restricted by these 'limits'. A limit is only relevant if it actually impacts on your activities, otherwise it could be non existent and your behaviour still would basically not change. The people actually trashed by sec status limits are normally not involved in high sec ganking but are the low sec pirates (or null mains who low sec roam as well). But that is a by the by, and well, I'm just giggling at the Ops devolution of this thread further and further down the magic mushroom rabbit hole.

Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 406	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:38:34 - [1381] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll. Hence the edits in the OP CONCORD(edit:Faction Police) So get off your ass and do the work you expect the faction police to do. My point still stands. It's the FacPo's job to chase criminals around Hisec and make it difficult for them to operate. It's not their job to completely prevent the criminals from doing anything at all in hisec. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 529	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:39:40 - [1382] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Dude no one cares. @scipio Artellus, if you were interested in having a serious conversation, you would be telling this guys to stop posting walls of text. You were the one that asked me to look at the darn things, claiming them to be trolls. I proved you wrong, now "no one cares". Also, that's not a wall of text. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1655	Posted - 2017.03.05 02:46:20 - [1383] - Quote Alright, I am going to close this thread. Its gotten way off topic. Erich Einstein, please wait a few days let people have sometime to cool off and then feel free to open a new thread on your idea. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 47 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.