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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:27:57 - [511] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship. Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:28:59 - [512] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots. They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk. FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above. And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:29:58 - [513] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status. Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game. I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:30:23 - [514] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. No, he want to make it harder to keep ganking the more you do it. It's totally different from preventing ganking or reducing it. All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:32:44 - [515] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter. Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun. Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content. Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it. then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots. They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk. FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above. And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along. try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships). You can fly around in highsec in a pod or shuttle all you want with a -10.0 status. No one is getting locked out of anything.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:33:06 - [516] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status. Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game. I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP. I did, and you want "phase 2" sec status players scrammed and webbed by gates while the FacPo move in. Also, being webbed and scrammed, presumably even in a pod, because IIRC, your OP says nothing about pods or even shuttles being exempt. If they are scrammed and webbed other players can shoot them too. They are effectively locked out. Once they jump into HS space they sit there on the gate waiting to die. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:03 - [517] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: NightmareX wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship. Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6007	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:24 - [518] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships). Dude, can you grow up? No really? Become an adult as opposed to a man-child. You keep bringing up risk vs. reward. Then you get all whiny and petulant when others respond. If you don't like the response...don't bring it up. Brat. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27842	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:25 - [519] - Quote NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like clever and smart people. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:37:00 - [520] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch. Not empty quoting. This basically gives other the opportunity for content. But most HS players are too self-centered to even realize it. Most freighter pilots are so insular they wouldn't know someone was trying to help even if they have been bumped for an hour. Erich has chosen the least appreciative players to champion. Erich...they pretty much don't like you at all. Because they don't like most other players. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:40 - [521] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. Again not empty quoting. Why is it outrageous to expect the freighter pilots to actually manage their risk? Nope instead, we'll change the mechanics. Stomp on non-gankers with negative sec status...all in the name of helping out players who won't even thank you for it. Chances are they'll just load up all that more stuff into their freighters and when a 30 billion freighter is ganked, the OP will be back here complaining that Goons are bad. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:48 - [522] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. That would basically make 2 different kinds of criminals, while both would have the same standing. Which would mean a special-case coding, which is terribly crude and CCP doesn't like doing that, meaning not gonna happen (This is just a "what if" since I've yet to see zero proof of this "issue") Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations. The game also discourages you from shooting another in highsec, unless you are at war or they have a suspect/criminal timer or a low enough sec-status. The players also discourage hauling too expensive amounts of loot in a single ship by suicide-ganking ships, yet for some reason, the haulers just keep packing it all in to one ship time and again... Maybe its because freighters are so expensive, contracts collaterals are so high, that is the only way to make anything decent. Which for the risk being taken its all **** income if you ask me.
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:52 - [523] - Quote @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:42:18 - [524] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Maybe its because freighters are so expensive, contracts collaterals are so high, that is the only way to make anything decent. Which for the risk being taken its all **** income if you ask me. Seems like Red Frog does all right though. Manage your risk. That is a major component of this game. It is a competitive game. If you do not manage your risk well others will take advantage of it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:43:18 - [525] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? You should pretty much always triple bulkhead fit your freighter if it is empty, IMO. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 948	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:43:20 - [526] - Quote 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:01 - [527] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit. It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers. No its the massive cost of ships and battles in low and null sec that gave us gankers. People would rather steal isk for plex and ships than pay for it. Its just that the stealing is out of hand because ganking is to easy / uncontrolled and freighter pilots have to take on massive risk to make a minimal profit.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27845	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:09 - [528] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf will fix ganking. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:15 - [529] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? The OP wants less ganking. Wants people will low sec status (see the OP for details) essentially locked out of HS, and doesn't have a clue about risk vs. reward. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:25 - [530] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:55 - [531] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? you can think Teckos Pech for that... He like hearing himself talk.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:45:18 - [532] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf. An even better summary. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:47:22 - [533] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. Again not empty quoting. Why is it outrageous to expect the freighter pilots to actually manage their risk? Nope instead, we'll change the mechanics. Stomp on non-gankers with negative sec status...all in the name of helping out players who won't even thank you for it. Chances are they'll just load up all that more stuff into their freighters and when a 30 billion freighter is ganked, the OP will be back here complaining that Goons are bad. How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Didn't i just talk about that the gankers is the only one that will get a harder time doing the gankings the more they do it? I have never said anything about making it more impossible to do ganking. All that's been said from me is that the gankers has to work much harder to be able to keep doing their crimes with the new system. That's all. But you are to stubborn to actually see this. So please go on with your trolling. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf will fix ganking. Or balance it more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:49:11 - [534] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:49:51 - [535] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit. It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers. No its the massive cost of ships and battles in low and null sec that gave us gankers. People would rather steal isk for plex and ships than pay for it. Its just that the stealing is out of hand because ganking is to easy / uncontrolled and freighter pilots have to take on massive risk to make a minimal profit. No, you are wrong and don't know the games history. It was possible to gank in t1 fit battle ships because the suicide ganker would get insurance from CONCORD killing his ship. However, ganking was far more desultory. It happened, but wasn't nearly as organized/professional as it is now. As there were more and more nerfs suicide ganking of freighters became more and more organized and techniques refined to where it is now. Wars in NS have nothing to do with it. NS alliances would bring in a crap ton of ISK with moon mining, rental empires, and taxes from things like POCOs and ratting. Plus alliances like Goons really know how to work the markets. Miniluv is a profit center, but that is not what Goons need. If CCP eliminated ganking tomorrow Goons would still be filthy stinking rich. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27845	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:51:03 - [536] - Quote NightmareX wrote: No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The gankers already work hard in order to continue ganking because most of them have a sec status that attracts the attention of the faction police and opens them up to attack from anybody. Quote: The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. That's the point, most of them aren't doing anything at all beyond undocking and hitting autopilot, they're mindless morons. What you and the OP want to do is punish people who have to work hard to achieve their goals, and simultaneously reward those that do nothing but the absolute bare minimum required. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:53:18 - [537] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The gankers already work hard in order to continue ganking because most of them have a sec status that attracts the attention of the faction police and opens them up to attack from anybody. Quote: The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. That's the point, most of them aren't doing anything at all beyond undocking and hitting autopilot. What you and the OP want to do is punish people who have to work hard to achieve their goals, and simultaneously reward those that do nothing but the absolute bare minimum required. No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right? No, we want to let EVE punish the criminals who break the rules of high sec harder and harder the more crimes they do, like everyone would do. And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6008	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:53:48 - [538] - Quote NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lei YingLu Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:15 - [539] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: @OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates. If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills?
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:43 - [540] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. Thats the point of the OP... Im glad you understand finally. They would be taking responsibility for their criminal actions if they want to play in highsec criminally all day long.



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