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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:22:43 - [211] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? Hint. A fast locking ship on a gate wont stop the actual ganking. If some gankers can force the Freighter or any other ships to be killed, then there should be a system where the Freighter pilot / others pilots also should have more power on their hands where the Concord will punish the gankers harder and harder the more they do their crimes. Why should everyone else be totally defenseless against ganking that will happen every 15 minutes when the gankers have the luxury of doing the crimes with a success rate of 99% where they can't be stopped? Don't you think there should be more consequences for the criminals this way when the non-gankers are so defenseless against being ganked? Daichi Yamato wrote: Freighters are corp level assets like other capitals. They aren't meant to be flown solo. You don't HAVE to use an escort but when you can ignore every ganker at the expense of a frigate with a couple of webs, why wouldn't you? I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:30:38 - [212] - Quote NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5308	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:32:15 - [213] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Hint. A fast locking ship on a gate wont stop the actual ganking. If some gankers can force the Freighter or any other ships to be killed, then there should be a system where the Freighter pilot / others pilots also should have more power on their hands where the Concord will punish the gankers harder and harder the more they do their crimes. Why should everyone else be totally defenseless against ganking that will happen every 15 minutes when the gankers have the luxury of doing the crimes with a success rate of 99% where they can't be stopped? Don't you think there should be more consequences for the criminals this way when the non-gankers are so defenseless against being ganked? Please explain how killing a ganker en route (or just holding him in place while the facpo do it for you) doesn't save a freighter. Please explain how jamming a ganker doesn't stop them ganking. Please explain how shooting a ganker in the face before concord show up doesn't save a freighter. Please explain why a solo freighter pilot with zero precautions taken and 5bil in their hold should be immune to the specific, targeted and organised actions of two dozen other players. Please explain how being free to engage anywhere by anyone any time is not a penalty. Please explain why being chased through highsec by facpo who WILL kill you if you're slow to warp is not a penalty. Please explain, exactly, how anyone is defenceless, how gankers cannot be stopped, how freighter pilots have no options and how making highsec an awful lot safer for people who aren't even at thier keyboards is good for the game. In short, no, I do not think there need to be extra penalties for gankers. I think there need to be extra penalties for lazy and/or stupid freighter pilots who think they are invincible because they are in highsec. Quote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. I know of people who are out in thier Nyx alone because they are in one man corps. Doesn't make a super any less of a corporate asset now, does it.
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:32:40 - [214] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:37:46 - [215] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Please explain how killing a ganker en route (or just holding him in place while the facpo do it for you) doesn't save a freighter. Please explain how jamming a ganker doesn't stop them ganking. Please explain how shooting a ganker in the face before concord show up doesn't save a freighter. Please explain why a solo freighter pilot with zero precautions taken and 5bil in their hold should be immune to the specific, targeted and organised actions of two dozen other players. Please explain how being free to engage anywhere by anyone any time is not a penalty. Please explain why being chased through highsec by facpo who WILL kill you if you're slow to warp is not a penalty. Please explain, exactly, how anyone is defenceless, how gankers cannot be stopped, how freighter pilots have no options and how making highsec an awful lot safer for people who aren't even at thier keyboards is good for the game. In short, no, I do not think there need to be extra penalties for gankers. I think there need to be extra penalties for lazy and/or stupid freighter pilots who think they are invincible because they are in highsec. The issue here that you don't seems to figure out is that a single ganker is not the problem here. The problem is when there are like 100+ gankers on one freighter or whatever. That is impossible to stop. So why should Concord be so friendly against those gankers when there is no ways to stop a gank in that scale? And why shouldn't Concord punish criminals harder and harder? You are a criminal after all and not a wonderboy. Danika Princip wrote: I know of people who are out in thier Nyx alone because they are in one man corps. Doesn't make a super any less of a corporate asset now, does it. A Nyx can't enter high sec. Yes, we are talking about Concord and high sec here here if you haven't figured that out yet. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5308	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:45:21 - [216] - Quote 100+ gankers on one freighter happens during burn jita events. Events which happen maybe twice a year, and are talked about for months in advance. Which there are warnings about all over the place, and which the freighter pilots are choosing to ignore. (And which involve frankly ludicrous amounts of work from the people doing the organising, but I'm sure you don't care about that either.) As has been said hundreds of times now, you can't patch stupid. Why should concord be so friendly to freighter pilots who can't be bothered to engage with the game or take any kind of precaution whatsoever? Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:54:40 - [217] - Quote Raymond Limyuri wrote: Quote: CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control. Ganking is a fundamental part of this game, and nerfing it would make it go away. Burn Jita is happening and will happen again, the rationale behind it isn't "getting goods", or stealing loot. it is "fun". The success of burn jita is determined by "how many billions were destroyed", screw the loot. This game is a sandbox to the extent that kill mails are given a lot of value. Moreover, ganking isn't always as active as when burn Jita is happening, so only idiots would make themselves targets by AFK-mining and sitting on gates thinking that highsec is safe. Have fun. Die. Repeat. Get over it. I don't think nerfing it would necessarily make it die, although it that is a possibility. But I largely agree with your point it is a fundamental part of the game because of the core aspect of the game, "If I accept the consequences of shooting you, I can shoot you...anywhere in game." The OP and his few supporters want to ratchet up the consequences. That has been the path CCP has been on. CONCORD getting tougher. Fine not much happened. CONCORD got faster. CONCORD locked people in place as soon as they engaged in illegal aggression. Insurance was removed for suicide ganking. Along with it was the increase in war dec costs. And then the removal of the watchlist, another nerf to wardecs.* All the changes to CONCORD and ganking have lead to a rise in professional ganking groups like Miniluv and CODE. Trying to catch those guys is now work. It is work because they have perfected their profession. And now they mostly gank for profit, and there are plenty of fools to give them that profit. As for war decs those have been reduced to camping trade hubs and roaming the trade lanes along with mass wardecs by big war deccing alliances. Now people complain quite regularly about that too. My response to both those whining about suicide ganking and war decs. You idiots made your bed now lie in it. You whined and complained and CCP reacted "in your favor" or so you thought. Now you got the result. Did you expect the suicide gankers and war deccing alliances to NOT adapt? Well then you were stupid. *Yes, yes, yes I know! Some BadGäó is going to come along and say, they removed the watchlist becuase..."Blah, blah, blah....". I know. But it was still a nerf to targeted war decs. I have always maintained that if you change mechanics to do X but also screw Y then that is likely a bad change. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 35	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:56:29 - [218] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Cz u cant drop a hundred subcaps on a titan in high sec?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:59:42 - [219] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? Or gank the bumping mach. Those ships tend not to have big tanks, they are fit for speed and agility vs. tank. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:00:24 - [220] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: 100+ gankers on one freighter happens during burn jita events. Events which happen maybe twice a year, and are talked about for months in advance. Which there are warnings about all over the place, and which the freighter pilots are choosing to ignore. (And which involve frankly ludicrous amounts of work from the people doing the organising, but I'm sure you don't care about that either.) As has been said hundreds of times now, you can't patch stupid. Why should concord be so friendly to freighter pilots who can't be bothered to engage with the game or take any kind of precaution whatsoever? Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Still doesn't matter. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal no matter what the circumstances are. And newsflash. We are still talking about what happens in high sec and how Concord is. So i'm not sure why you are dragging in Titans into the discussion when Titans can't enter high sec? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5309	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:01:07 - [221] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Cz u cant drop a hundred subcaps on a titan in high sec? And highsec should be completely different from every other kind of space in this respect because...? And a solo pilot should be immune to one hundred plus people who want to kill them because...? NightmareX wrote: Still doesn't matter. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal no matter what the circumstances are. And newsflash. We are still talking about what happens in high sec and how Concord is. So i'm not sure why you are dragging in Titans into the discussion when Titans can't enter high sec? They are. they lose the ship regardless of the success or failure of the gank. And titans are being used because they are a big combat ship that dies to one hundred small combat ships. Why should a big non combat ship be immune to a hundred small combat ships?
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:09:01 - [222] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:10:49 - [223] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3776	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:20:58 - [224] - Quote 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:28:32 - [225] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But that is the point. Ganking an empty freighter happens, but rarely, aside from events like Burn Jita. Like i have said, the ganking in it self are fine. What's not fine are the consequences the gankers gets after a gank. The consequences are WAAAAAAAY to little / small over what it really should be. It's that simple. Actually I donGÇÖt think so. The thing is that gankers figured out a way for each pilot to lose very little individually and they find targets where the expected payoff is large. The GÇ£too littleGÇ¥ is GÇ£too littleGÇ¥ because some idiot decided to offer to GÇ£pay them too muchGÇ¥ by overloading his freighter. Why should the ganker get large consequences whereas the fool freighter pilot not face consequences for his incredibly stupid behavior? That point you never answer. See, there is no balance issue here because you have prudent players on one hand (suicide gankers) and an imprudent player on the other (the freighter pilot). That is not a balance issue, IMO. See CCP looks at balance for in game items such as ships and their respective bonuses. Or modules and their in game effects. CCP did balance passes years ago on things like sensor damps, for example. At the time there were no stacking penalties. So CCP implemented stacking penalties and not just on sensor damps, but on most modules like it. CCP also rebalanced titans when people were fitting titans so they could shout frigates. But CCP does not try and GÇ£fix stupidGÇ¥ when it comes to players actions. And in fact it is really hard too. I bet if CCP implemented this rule: If you put more than 1.5 billion ISK worth of cargo in your freighter you wonGÇÖt be allowed to undock. The raging on the forums would be unlike anything we have seen before. Some people would be raging because they have figured out how to safely move an overloaded freighter, and others would be raging because they are upset that somebody is trying to protect them from their own stupidity. So, why should freighter pilots be, at least in part, shielded from the consequences of their own foolish actions? I know you keep saying, you donGÇÖt have a problem with ganking, but you clearly want to nerf it, so you do have a problem with it. And indirectly youGÇÖll provide a buff to the imprudent and even downright stupid freighter pilots who are usually the victims of suicide ganking. Oh, and here is another thing. These professional groups, they are good at adapting, especially Goons. Back in the day, they used to run Sec Status Safaris. TheyGÇÖd have a designated route where a fleet in stealth bombers would run through, shoot a high value rat, move on to the next system. TheyGÇÖd do this until peopleGÇÖs sec status was GÇ£repairedGÇ¥. Implement this change and Goons might reinstitute the Sec Status Safaris, thus mitigating or even eliminating the effect of this change. Goons might also look for GÇ£affiliatesGÇ¥ for Miniluv--i.e. people outside their coalition. One thing about Goons is they are very good at their organizational structure. And where would we be with this...the OP back here whining his pathetic ass off that Goons are ganking 24/7 just like they were before the change. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:43:10 - [226] - Quote NightmareX wrote: 1. I'm again not against getting ganked for traveling with to much stuffs in the cargohold. Read what i'm talking about. 2. One scout is not going to be enough for a Freighter pilot anyways as he will need to be scouting several systems in advance for the Freighter pilot to make sure it's ok. So that again, is just stupid. 3. Why should he need webs on an alt to be able to do his business? 4. You shouldn't have to tank your freighter as a normal practice. If you know you are going to low sec or any other areas that are SUPPOSED to be dangerous, then it might be something else. 5. And as you are so sure to die, then i don't see the problem with a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do because the Freighter pilots have such high chance of dying without having to use a billion alts and stuffs. So again. Give EVE a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do, because that's freaking logic. You quite clearly have an issue with ganking. You should stop claiming you do because you want to nerf it. One scout can make a world of difference. And read what I wrote, set active ganking organizations red. TheyGÇÖll show up in local. If you start seeing alot of them, dock up. If you know of individual macherial pilots, yes set them red, but yes they tend to sit in NPC corps. And if you do start to build a listGÇª.why not make it publicly available. As for webbers, why not use all the tools you can to get the job done quickly and safely? You are not entitled to play this game as if other players did not exist. If you anti-tank your freighter you should then lower how much you carry in terms of ISK value. Again, you are not playing this game as if other players did not also play it as well. You are almost surely going to die if you end up getting bumped--i.e. you screwed up several times. YOU need to learn to adapt to the changing conditions of the game vs. coming here and stamping your foot demanding changes that are antithetical to the nature of the game. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:44:24 - [227] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:47:42 - [228] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Yeah i said relatively safe which means you are not 100% safe, but should still be pretty safe in high sec. And that means safe enough to not getting ganked over and over from the same type of crime while the criminals isn't getting punished any harder the more crimes they do. But you aren't really being treated like a criminal if you aren't getting any harder consequences / penalties if you still can just do the same crime over and over without getting it harder to do the crimes you do each days. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:52:58 - [229] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? So flying around with a freighter is suddenly foolish just because they can't use a billion alts to scout several systems ahead of potential bumping Machariels that doesn't really have to be a bumping Machariel and to scout for some baddies that can travel from several jumps out and reach the targeted freighter before the freighter can warp out anyways? How much work do you expect a freighter pilot to do to make sure he can fly around relatively safe without getting ganked all the time? When you as a ganker can fly around in high sec suiciding others that easily, then the freighter pilots should be able to do their job as easily that way to. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:52:59 - [230] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Okay, lets consider this.... Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low. In looking at their annual report for 2015 we find this little tidbit of information: Quote: During 2015 Red Frog Freight failed 382 contracts, representing about 0.27% of all contracts. The percentage of failed contracts is up by 145% as compared to 2014 when the percent failed was 0.11%. So much less than 1% of the contracts are failed, and this includes failures for all reasons. But letGÇÖs assume it is all due to ganking. This means that for every RFF freighter that is ganked, 370 run around doing their business just fineGÇª.so long as the pilot is prudent. Why does suicide ganking need another nerf and why does being an idiot freighter pilot need a buff? BTW, in looking at their annual report there is a load of depressing statistics in there, but I bet the OP and NightmareX won't be able to figure out what I'm talking about. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:55:25 - [231] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? So flying around with a freighter is suddenly foolish just because they can't use a billion alts to scout several systems ahead of potential bumping Machariels that doesn't really have to be a bumping Machariel and to scout for some baddies that can travel from several jumps out and reach the targeted freighter before the freighter can warp out? How much work do you expect a freighter pilot to do to make sure he can fly around relatively safe? When you as a ganker can fly around in high sec suiciding others that easily, then the freighter pilots should be able to do their job as easily that way to. No. I did not write that. I wrote that using a freighter foolishly should not be protected. Using a freighter prudently is not a problem. Thing is people often want to use it foolishly. Just it can hold 32.5 billion in nocxium means you should haul 32.5 billion in nocxium. At least not without possible repercussions. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:56:42 - [232] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Yeah i said relatively safe which means you are not 100% safe, but should still be pretty safe in high sec. And that means safe enough to not getting ganked over and over from the same type of crime while the criminals isn't getting punished any harder the more crimes they do. But you aren't really being treated like a criminal if you aren't getting any harder consequences / penalties if you still can just do the same crime over and over without getting it harder to do the crimes you do each days. The RFF numbers indicate a prudent freighter pilot IS relatively safe. It suggests that your probability of getting ganked is less than or equal to 0.0027 or 0.27%. How much safer do you need it to be? Edit: The chances of not getting ganked are 0.9973 or 99.73%. WITF more do you want? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:06:01 - [233] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? And here lies the problem of this entire post. Highsec has faction police who cant catch their criminal targets, making them a useless feature of the game. Make it so that these faction police catch their targets in X amount of time (where X depends on the players security status) and we have balanced out ganking mechanics vastly.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5310	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:09:38 - [234] - Quote Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:10:12 - [235] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most. except ganking is one of the most enjoyable and accessible parts of the game for a new player. it probably generates more subs than it costs. Than pay for it. The point of having a free version it to be able to do the most basic tasks, not enjoy the game to its fullest extent.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:11:58 - [236] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 31	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:13:00 - [237] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:13:43 - [238] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? And here lies the problem of this entire post. Highsec has faction police who cant catch their criminal targets, making them a useless feature of the game. Make it so that these faction police catch their targets in X amount of time (where X depends on the players security status) and we have balanced out ganking mechanics vastly. No, it forces the suicide gankers and all low sec status players into smaller faster ships...which typically do less DPS. So they either use lots of ships, or switch over to more expensive ships. Destroyers or stealth bombers. Some gank in battle cruisers such as the talos, but I bet you'll find those guys have a sec status that lets them do it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:14:34 - [239] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed. They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 6001	Posted - 2017.02.26 20:15:20 - [240] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc. And players can shoot you too, and they can be much faster than the FacPo. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek



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