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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.29 11:43:00 -
[1]
with agility and mass stacking nerfed and warp core stabs enjoying quite a heavy drawback these days, why do bubbles still have to be so completely day-ruining?
*only inties, a couple of frigs and maybe stabber/vaga *can outmaneuver 20km scramblers
*blockade runners don't "run" anywhere
*map's statistics are broken and wouldn't reveal a camp of ~5 anyway - the occasional scout is the only indicator of an interdictor waiting on the other side
etc
i just want to bring back the use of +2 scramblers (beyond their advantageous cap requirements), blockade runners and maybe even warp core stabs.
it doesn't have to be -3 : let's just find a reasonable value
now... where's my flame suit...
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.29 11:46:00 -
[2]
/signed
Idea.
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
ArtemisEntreri
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:01:00 -
[3]
No, it's a ***** as it is getting dictor bubbles or whatever bubbles before the ship gets there.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:04:00 -
[4]
And bubbles with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 strength is balanced?
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Anna Grahm
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:07:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
And bubbles with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 strength is balanced?
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" obviously.
I am NOT an alt! |
ArtemisEntreri
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:11:00 -
[6]
Use scouts, bubbles are the easiest thing to spot
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:14:00 -
[7]
Jenny Spitfire is rite of course, wcs's and nano's have been nerfed into oblivion, to acheive "balance" yet clearly interdictor bubbles and warp bubbles are clearly unbalanced and as such need a nerf or a direct counter, at the moment bubbles create guaranteed gank situations which if you look at in perspective to the rest of the game something been 100% in someone elses favour is not the way the game is ment to be played
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
http://savestargatesg1.com/
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Anna Grahm
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
And bubbles with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 strength is balanced?
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" obviously.
If bubbles are balanced, I will agree to that statement.
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Use scouts, bubbles are the easiest thing to spot
Isn't that meta-gaming - launch alt account and cheat?
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Beowulf Scheafer
Gallente
Hell Hounds
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:15:00 -
[9]
bubbles are the only way to kill something 100%, and thoose are fine the way it is.
i think the truth is CCP don't want exactly you to be safe, and tbh for me that is fine
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.29 12:40:00 -
[10]
stabho's unite against this abomination!
in other words: no
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:00:00 -
[11]
Maybe they should fix the bubbles before you ask for a nerf.
The way it is now, hit warpbutton before dictorbubbles or any other bubble activate, and they wont affect you. Warping from gate and to a gate.
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ceveres
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:33:00 -
[12]
100% is excatly the problem the chance someone can or might get away is what...makes it fun,,,,reguardless bubbles and dictors need some sort of counter maybe chance based, but that would make it to real...
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TZeer
Maybe they should fix the bubbles before you ask for a nerf.
The way it is now, hit warpbutton before dictorbubbles or any other bubble activate, and they wont affect you. Warping from gate and to a gate.
works both ways - if the bubble is up before you warp _towards_ it, it'll stop you even if it's no longer there when you arrive
therefore: you look at the local channel and throw the bubble, as soon as the victim appears. noone can warp any faster than appearing in local. so don't act as if this was a major flaw of the interdiction spheres.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/04/2007 14:30:38
I have an interesting view on this, well, atleast "my" view on it  (possibly not interesting)
First off, bubble is supposed to be an area effect. In other games, area effects are usually less effective then the point to point attack.
This is not a case with "Ze Bubble". Which makes it rahter interesting in itself. Not bad, interessting. And different. It's a big, stronger thingy stopping all and any in it. Ofcourse negative being that you can't run from your prey if **** hits the afterburner.
Now, what i suggest is, not to "nerf" anything, but create a new warp core stabiliser, that effects bubble effects ALONE. You fit a warp core stabiliser to counter a scrambler, now you would fit a ..err...Anti Bubble Field to counter the bubble effect.
Let's say the bubble has a -5 to all in it's area. If you have a ABF fitted, it gives you a +2 stabilising effect, but ONLY to the bubble effect.
This would ofcourse require more stuff, or more ABF to work properly, but would fix the "problem" a bit. Ofcourse this would require some code change, which is always a bit worse then just changing an attribute of an item, but would it be suffice to say it would pelase both parties?
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Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:44:00 -
[15]
How about bubbles being changed so that you have to activate your scramblers on them to make them work? Each point increases range and strength of the bubble, this way manned bubbles become stronger and unmanned bubbles become weaker.
It would also make the campers more vulnerable to being blobbed as they have to remain by the bubble to make it work, and the lager the fleet the more ships have to be be inside it.
This would also create ship roles which are dedicated scramblers and make fleet ships fit for different roles.
The 1 to 1 ratio could be altered and the size constant being modified (points are equal to radius * constant)
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:27:00 -
[16]
Think i've got the perfect solution, remove existing warp bubbles and add a series of new modules setup like ab's or mwd modules are with one corresponding to the three major ship sizes. These modules similar concept to cyno field generators, but create a local warp disruption field, that remains constant until the modules deactivated, doesn't consume cap or fuel, but immobilizes the ship, apply normal rules to it from that point on. But also create a new module, called a warp bubble inhibitor, you target the warp bubble generating ship and start the module and it reduces the effective size of the bubble by a percentage, the more modules on the target ship the smaller the bubble. Using a percentage rather than a fixed reduction size means its balanced across all sizes, also it means that it won't render bubbles totally useless you have an insanely large number of inhibitors focused on all the warp bubble ships
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
http://savestargatesg1.com/
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Use scouts, bubbles are the easiest thing to spot
BE's dictors cloak. They'll let your noob shuttle pass, but bubble your industrial.
They got about a billion isk off of me that way during my first month or two in 0.0.
--P
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Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Use scouts, bubbles are the easiest thing to spot
BE's dictors cloak. They'll let your noob shuttle pass, but bubble your industrial.
They got about a billion isk off of me that way during my first month or two in 0.0.
--P
Welcome to tactics. Cloaking dictors aren't anything special. If you're going to be carrying expensive cargo through 0.0, get an escort. Don't expect it to be risk free.
Generally; Scout & Escort expensive hauler, especially if you're expecting hostiles on your trip. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, as artemis said anchored bubbles are easy to spot.
What's being suggested is making haulers able to be soloable through camps, that should not be the case. Blockade runners should be able to either burn to the edge of a bubble or burn back to the gate so are still pretty strong. If you jump into a camp with multiple hostiles with multiple webs, you've been a mong and deserve to die.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
And bubbles with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 strength is balanced?
It's more like 9 (and you have an ironic sig for posting about nerfing warp bubbles)
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pepperami
What's being suggested is making haulers able to be soloable through camps, that should not be the case. Blockade runners should be able to either burn to the edge of a bubble or burn back to the gate so are still pretty strong. If you jump into a camp with multiple hostiles with multiple webs, you've been a mong and deserve to die.)
well yeah, if it would really require that much.
soloing should always have a remote chance. what's proposed is merely requiring stupid camps to use more than just this we-win-button (the one you assigned your sphere launcher to)
it would become a matchup of warpstabs against scramblers of any shape: bubble or module.
adapt or... don't kill
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monkeyduck
Mithril Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.29 22:03:00 -
[20]
Why not make the jam strength relative to the distance from the center?
Make it 8 points at the center and then rapidly decrease in points as it nears the perimeter. Small bubbles should be pretty much all 8 points, but the other bubbles would decrease in effectiveness accordingly. Seems strange that it is effective 100% up till its perimeter... there should be falloff as the distance from the generator increases.
Of course then you'd need to fix it so ships get sucked further into bubbles instead of the rim.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 22:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Use scouts, bubbles are the easiest thing to spot
BE's dictors cloak. They'll let your noob shuttle pass, but bubble your industrial.
They got about a billion isk off of me that way during my first month or two in 0.0.
--P
Welcome to tactics. Cloaking dictors aren't anything special. If you're going to be carrying expensive cargo through 0.0, get an escort. Don't expect it to be risk free.
Generally; Scout & Escort expensive hauler, especially if you're expecting hostiles on your trip. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, as artemis said anchored bubbles are easy to spot.
Oh, I know all that now. As I said, this happened during my first couple months in 0.0; I was still a noob.
And ask anyone who knows me--I can afford to lose a bil here or there. 
--P
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Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.29 22:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Pepperami
What's being suggested is making haulers able to be soloable through camps, that should not be the case. Blockade runners should be able to either burn to the edge of a bubble or burn back to the gate so are still pretty strong. If you jump into a camp with multiple hostiles with multiple webs, you've been a mong and deserve to die.)
well yeah, if it would really require that much.
soloing should always have a remote chance. what's proposed is merely requiring stupid camps to use more than just this we-win-button (the one you assigned your sphere launcher to)
it would become a matchup of warpstabs against scramblers of any shape: bubble or module.
adapt or... don't kill
You do have a chance, its called MWDing to the gate.
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panman
Captain Morgan Society
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 23:35:00 -
[23]
Stabs are bad.
Bubbles are good.
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Resistance is not worth it |
JADE DRAG0NESS
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: panman
Stabs are bad.
Bubbles are good.
Stabs ahve been fixed
Bubbles havent.
Oh sorry didnt see you were a prvateer
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Jangizal
Merchants Trade Consortium
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jangizal on 29/04/2007 23:59:19
Believe me when I say it's not that hard to escape from most dictor sphere gate camps. I've done it time and time again. There is no need to 'nerf' this. Some folks (the n00bie folks) don't know how to escape. That's when it gets interesting.
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Jang
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Blog
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jangizal
Edited by: Jangizal on 29/04/2007 23:59:19
Believe me when I say it's not that hard to escape from most dictor sphere gate camps. I've done it time and time again. There is no need to 'nerf' this. Some folks (the n00bie folks) don't know how to escape. That's when it gets interesting.
Yeah really, what kind of noob doesn't log when they see a bubble?
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Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:34:00 -
[27]
Bubbles work just fine. Just ask a Min. or interceptor pilot. Everyone should go out and buy lots. I'm not just saying that because I make them. Really.
"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell |
Freighter Pilot
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:40:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Freighter Pilot on 30/04/2007 00:36:36
The way I see it, bubbles are only day ruining if you get caught in one.
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Sul Sonic
Caldari
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 00:41:00 -
[29]
There are plenty of precautions you can take to not get caught in a bubble, but you have to understand that every single gate you jump blind in 0 security space is a potential bubble. And even gates that you don't jump blind are potential bubbles.
It takes skill and logistical effort to trap someone in a bubble. The way you beat a bubble is to make it harder for them to trap you. Speed, scouts, and various other ways will all make it harder for you to be trapped.
Bubbles are balanced with critical thinking.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:21:00 -
[30]
Well i believe blockade runners should be able to actually run blockades, so mebbe bubble immunity instead of jam strength?
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:31:00 -
[31]
I don't see a problem with them being 100% effective, I'd be happy with the ability to quickly target them. Something kicking out that much power ought to have a signature proportional to its area of effect.
Stop me, sure. Now keep me from breaking the leash. Right now, they're a little difficult to pop before the ambush team is giving you a webber massage.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
Gomaz
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:27:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Gomaz on 30/04/2007 02:24:54
Well to be honest not super experienced with this, but why not make bubbles Jamable. Even if its a super low strength and easy to do you still have to be able to live long enough. So the attacker would still have enough time to lock you down.
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Rosalina Sarinna
KHM Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:43:00 -
[33]
Bubble immunity for blockade runners - 100% support
Idea that bubble is AOE -3 warp core stength - 100% support
Either way something has to be done. As stated before, this is one area in the game that has no counter (like cloaked ships).
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DiuxDium
Free Mercenaries Union
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:51:00 -
[34]
0.0 is a dangerous place.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.30 03:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer
bubbles are the only way to kill something 100%, and thoose are fine the way it is.
i think the truth is CCP don't want exactly you to be safe, and tbh for me that is fine
signed
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Selnix
Gallente
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 03:38:00 -
[36]
Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed. If you can't tank the damage for the whole two to five seconds that you are viable in space, then there were more than enough enemies to justify your death regardless.
Interdictor bubbles have infinite strength... And the problem with this is? Give bubbles, deployable or dictor, a set strength and they immediately become relatively useless at performing their task. Sure, you can still catch ships that don't choose to stab up, but the ships that already fly around with a full low slot rack of warp core stabs can evade even a moderately large fleet simply because they are in warp before six ships can get in range, target and scramble. There is nothing stopping these same people from fitting a multitude of counter-bubbles in the same manner. Is it realistic that an Iteron V would be able to warp around and evade five Heavy Assault Cruisers that total nearly a billion isk or more indefinately thanks to about a hundered thousand isk worth of tech one warp core stabs? Without interdictor and deployable bubbles, ships with plentiful low slots can move with impunity.
Bubbles haven't been nerfed... Reducing the duration to 50% of what they once were isn't a nerf? The duration change gives dictor pilots two choices; set it to auto-repeat, thus wasting expensive probes in an overlap time and possibly resulting in your a friend of yours death due to an unwanted bubble appearing OR set it to manual-fire, which creates a dead zone between bubbles that lasts 60-100 seconds or so depending on skill levels, thus allowing ships to escape because you can't fire the module again even though it is sitting there inactive and loaded.
Bubbles need a counter... Smartbombs will destroy interdictor probes. Motion can take you outside of an interdictor probe's influence. Dictor bubbles are also one of the better ways to prevent a capital ship from jumping out of system so, of course, that in and of itself justifies making them easy to defeat, can't have a ship that someone spent a couple months learing to fly stopping our carrier from jumping out. :P
In case you don't realize it, bubbles don't only affect the ones jumping into them, they stop the guys using them from warping just as well. There isn't anything stopping you from using their bubbles to your advantage should you choose to do so.
If bubbles need any changes, it is to the interdictor variant. The reactivation delay needs to be removed as it is likely a bug resulting from the reduced duration of the module. Interdiction spheres need the ability to stop a warp that has already been initiated. When the role of the ship is described by CCP in the items database as *Destroyer-class vessels, designed to pull other vessels out of warp.* and *Interdictors are destroyer-sized vessels built to fill a single important tactical niche: the breaching of enemy warp tunnels*, it seems only fair that they be able to do so. Currently, launching a bubble between two set points in space will not pull a ship from warp, although the role suggests that it would. And a ship has but to click WARP-TO before the bubble goes up and it currently has no effect on the vessel, counter to the role as stated.
And for anyone that thinks the changes would make them overpowered, please take a look at the signature radius and paper-thin shield/hull/armor before spouting off.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:01:00 -
[37]
the "but everyone will just fill their lows with Stabs" argument is fairly weak from people who want bubbles unchanged. the stab stuffed have plenty of drawbacks on their own now, so is it not the time to give some advantage to people who Are willing to take those drawbacks?
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Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:23:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Selnix
Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed.
Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere.
----
AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic |
Statix
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:45:00 -
[39]
CCP make warp to 0 and you want bubbles nerfed? Whats wrong? Some piwate steal ur lunch?
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Slythought
Sly Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:45:00 -
[40]
Bubbles and dictors are fine as they are, they only work in 0.0 so if your moving about, on your own , then you deserve to die.
Don't like it?? Head back to Empire and be safe! 0.0 is suppose to be dangerous stop moanong!!
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Cyan Nuevo on 30/04/2007 05:56:11
I support this. Bigger ships with lots of lows (aka lots of stabs) will still be lockable before they can warp away.
Edit: Oh, I don't support nerfing interdictor bubbles though. They should still catch everything. 
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: DiuxDium
^^ If you run through 0.0 alone, you deserve to die. Story ends there.
0.0 is a dangerous place.
Here are some other great sentences from the "...you deserve to DIE! story ends there." series.
"if you fly amarr..."
"if you ever fit wcs..."
"if you don't want to PvP..."
etc.
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Selnix
Gallente
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
the "but everyone will just fill their lows with Stabs" argument is fairly weak from people who want bubbles unchanged. the stab stuffed have plenty of drawbacks on their own now, so is it not the time to give some advantage to people who Are willing to take those drawbacks?
How does a scan res penalty and max targeting range penalty hurt an Iteron or a travel fitted Scorpion? The people who do stab spam are not there to engage you, they are there to run like rabbits.
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere.
Guess that extra 30 PG on the Prorator is nicer than I thought
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papamikeforthewin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:08:00 -
[44]
I wonder how many of the people now whining about bubbles were silent as long as they could safely log off at gates and warp away
Thankyou ccp for finally doing half of what is necessary to allow pvp in eve not be reduced to just concentual pvp. I bet the majority of those advocating nerfs in this thread were more than happy to jump into a bubble and smuggly hit ctrl-q before that lil chestnut.
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NOObbody
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:11:00 -
[45]
Why should bubbles be fixed? They work 100% as intended. 
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I was sworn to absolute secrecy! |
Spike 68
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Spike 68 on 30/04/2007 07:10:12
I know what they should do, when you jump into a bubble the EVE client should not warp scramble you and just display a pop up which states that you are in a bubble and should not warp.
Oh and btw, that was sarcasm
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DiuxDium
Free Mercenaries Union
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ry ry
Originally by: DiuxDium
^^ If you run through 0.0 alone, you deserve to die. Story ends there.
0.0 is a dangerous place.
Here are some other great sentences from the "...you deserve to DIE! story ends there." series.
"if you fly amarr..."
"if you ever fit wcs..."
"if you don't want to PvP..."
etc.
k
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:47:00 -
[48]
@selnix:
as someone already pointed out: powergrid is a factor here. they are cruiser-sized; the weight alone demands 150MW for this project to run a t1 MWD - with <170MW available, quite an undertaking.
agility and thus acceleration is, thx to the added weight, a lot less viable than you wish to make us believe: 15-16 ktons do not produce the comfy nanospeeds, you're appearantly still used to, anymore. fully skilled, the top speed of the fastest (prowler) does not exceed 290m/s. T1 MWD then delivers a maximum velocity of ~1800m/s, which of course you'll never achieve. having to run 15km unwebbed takes at least 15 seconds. during this time, you crawl with (minimum) 700-750m signature. cruisers (550mm resolution) target you within 2.5sec, add some reaction time and you're webbed within 4seconds. suddenly those 15km have become a loooong distance, you're far from being fast and decelerating
and you're contradicting there: first, we have the dictor bubble, and suddenly you're not in range to scramble some more...
if you're unable to fit an extra -2 for total certainty, you deserve to be the laughing stock of the industrial community (aka the "you derve to die" volley right back at ya).
except for the prorator and the occator, none can go beyond +5
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Selnix
Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed.
Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere.
I have an MWD and tank on my Prowler, Viator, AND on my Crane. Point out any blockade runner that can tank as well as the Crane too, btw. If you can't find the grid to fit a tank and MWD they have lows and RCU's in the game for reasons. They also have cosmos modules for reasons
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Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:00:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/04/2007 07:56:08
It wouldn't probably be a problem for blockade runners...if it weren't for bumpage
Though i think since you land at a hefty 20km from the gate, you have time to move away a bit and warp before those pesky guys come and nudge your boat.
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Wrayeth
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
with agility and mass stacking nerfed and warp core stabs enjoying quite a heavy drawback these days, why do bubbles still have to be so completely day-ruining?
Because that's the entire point of using them? They're a tool for making your target dead - one that's more effective than warp scramblers and disruptors. This is the way it's supposed to be.
Quote:
i just want to bring back...warp core stabs.
Die in a fire. (I've wanted an excuse to use that line for a while, now.)
Quote:
now... where's my flame suit...
I burned it.
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Firane
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:10:00 -
[52]
not signed
I'd say about half of the kills I've gotten in the past month have had stabs fitted, showing that stabs are still broken and far too commonplace. I should not have to bring 3-4 points(up to 8 for bs) to catch ships in 0.0. Therefor, bubbles are about the last thing that does do its job properly. At least when nanos were around, you didn't get aggression when you missed the ship, now you lock fine, aggress, and they still warp off, and you're stuck behind a gate with nothing to do.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:17:00 -
[53]
NO !
LEARN TO PLAY FFS stop trying to get something nerfed cos it doesnt suit you!
Originally by: Rawne Karrde
PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
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Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:23:00 -
[54]
Person A: (In corp chat) Hey guys, I'm moving my entire 2 bil assetts in a hauler I bought for 2 mil isk through Syndicate. Can someone scout for me pls in a shuttle for 10 minutes?
Person B: Yeah dude, no problem.
Is it that freakin hard to do the above?
As for the OP, the reason why the map is delayed is because if your map was realtime then you would basically know what every single corp/alliance is doing in eve in one single moment. Think about that FFS.
Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker
that've caught the attention of PA, who are no better than a group of thugs roaming around Afghanistan in technicals with AK-47s looking for a UN supply truck to rob.
[/q |
Llyando Autora
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:31:00 -
[55]
Firing a Dictor bubble should count as aggro. It would also be nice if they showed up in the overview as targetable (or even so you get some idea of how close to the edge of it you are, esp. with the graphic size bugged)
Bubbles should remain as powerful as they are, and to whomever said that blockade runners cant run on their own, they shouldnt be able to. They should be more useful than industrials, but certainly not 'I win' haulers. If you need to run a blockade to fuel a POS etc, then do it with a sacrificial fleet and run like hell...
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sinder Ohm
NO !
LEARN TO PLAY FFS stop trying to get something nerfed cos it doesnt suit you!
yes! cause ffs "mommy, i don't wanna give up the we-win-button" doesnt get this game balanced
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xMillz
Exploring Blind
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bazzaye
How about bubbles being changed so that you have to activate your scramblers on them to make them work? Each point increases range and strength of the bubble, this way manned bubbles become stronger and unmanned bubbles become weaker.
It would also make the campers more vulnerable to being blobbed as they have to remain by the bubble to make it work, and the lager the fleet the more ships have to be be inside it.
This would also create ship roles which are dedicated scramblers and make fleet ships fit for different roles.
The 1 to 1 ratio could be altered and the size constant being modified (points are equal to radius * constant)
Like this one..
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Qolde
Minmatar
Guardian Heroes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:16:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bazzaye
How about bubbles being changed so that you have to activate your scramblers on them to make them work? Each point increases range and strength of the bubble, this way manned bubbles become stronger and unmanned bubbles become weaker.
It would also make the campers more vulnerable to being blobbed as they have to remain by the bubble to make it work, and the lager the fleet the more ships have to be be inside it.
This would also create ship roles which are dedicated scramblers and make fleet ships fit for different roles.
The 1 to 1 ratio could be altered and the size constant being modified (points are equal to radius * constant)
Promotes blobbage even more than ever. Blobbage is worse than bubbles.
Never get popped again! |
Ket Halpak
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:21:00 -
[59]
Balance in eve is about having a counter. With WT0 people needed a way to defend their territory effectivly. So in came large bubbles. An effective counter to wt0. But bubbles don't have a counter (other than attempting to blow them to bits).
Now blockade runners by name should be able to escape gate camps effectivly. Their drawback is that they have a small cargo space compared to a t1 industrial.They come in built with a +2 warp core strength to avoid warp disrupters and they have a decent speed and a few low slots to add more wcs.
This was fine before wt0 as before large bubbles most people used either lots of small bubbles or a warp scrammer or 2. Blockade runners were able to escape with a little difficulty. Now with large bubbles blockade runners are out of date and need some lovin'.
My suggestion is create a special wcs module that can only be equiped to blockade runners. Have 1 module give the ability to escape small bubbles. 2 for medium and 3 for large. The blockade runner looses space for cargo expanders, inertia stabs or normal wcs. Basically make the blockade runner need to equip 3 'warp area stabs' for deep space transport.
Leave interdictor bubbles as is, and i think we have a solution.
_
Check out my blog at RantingsofaCarebear.blogspot.com
Privateers: Those who don't adapt become victims of harsh irony |
Wolfmoon
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:35:00 -
[60]
I think the whole bubble thing is weak to begin with. There are more original things that could have been implemented, with more of a chance at success/failure than a 100% brick wall stuck at every gate going to 0.0.
I gave up on it. I wanted to go cruise 0.0 to see if life out there might be fun...got my answer. I tried 22 times and died 22 times in bubbles. Good thing I was on my noob alt with a junk ship.
Hope they enjoyed the utter garbage my wreck left them, that, and turning away the prospect of me spending any time or ISK in 0.0. What a waste of game space.
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DarkFenix
Caldari
Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:21:00 -
[61]
Bubbles are fine as is. There are plenty of ways to avoid getting bubbled in the first place.
Use a scout? Bring an escort? Don't haul at peak times? Fit an MWD? Don't use a hauler?
I'm serious on that last point. Use a speed fitted battleship or an interceptor to run smaller items through 0.0. If it's THAT large and THAT valuable? Use a carrier.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari
The Empire Nation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:21:00 -
[62]
I'm a fairly new player, I won't lie. I think part of the big issue with it is that bubbles simply were as a fix to soften the WTZ effectiveness that I've read about. The problem is, warp to 15 didn't matter with bookmark to negate it for the few with time, patience, and it's a problem just caused by such extreme measures. You can't always get a friend to run scout, can't always check. Ships can't always have the most optimal fittings. I think part of the problem is that it sucks someone in if they warp remotely to the area, (even some ridiculous number out will pull you into the bubble) which if done right, might give you enough time to warp to a planet. With bubbles, scouting and caution is hit or miss without friends willing to die for you, which is still not really alright. The problem is, make it too safe, and them What fun is there to being a pirate if once in a while you can't get a really good kill?
It's like trying to balance eggs on opposite sides of a board on a wire.
Another one bites the dust. |
kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen
The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:28:00 -
[63]
I still like my idea of blockaderunners being able to fit covops cloaking devices better.
Pew Pew!
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Leonardo Sabrioski
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:33:00 -
[64]
/me slaps everyone whose died to a gate camp
geta freaking scout you lazy ****er
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Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:40:00 -
[65]
Interdictor bubbles are fine as they are. They are designed to allow a fleet to temporarily block travel through a given area and they do their job well. They are effective, not overpowered.
There are numerous tools a traveler can use to avoid being caught in one. If they can't be bothered to use them it's their own fault when they get caught in a bubble.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:05:00 -
[66]
yesyes - repeating negated points doesn't make them correct
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ALPHA12125
Gallente
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.04.30 11:16:00 -
[67]
Edited by: ALPHA12125 on 30/04/2007 11:13:12
u can have your 3 point warp disrupt bubbles, if i can stack them.
if i have 2 interdictors i can drop 2 bubbles on top of each other and get 6 points. 3 bubbles 9 points etc. and that they work instantly like warp disruptors, eg. you get scrambled even if you hit warp already
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:22:00 -
[68]
Flipping the scramble strength for bubble immunity on blockade runners sounds like an awesome idea.
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Pewpewdude
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:56:00 -
[69]
I have enjoyed consuming the tears of the OP in this thread.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:01:00 -
[70]
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:24:00 -
[71]
Bubbles are a tactical weapon, their very point is to stop you getting out. And you want them to be nerfed so you can warp out?
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Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
yesyes - repeating negated points doesn't make them correct
Continually ignoring the counters to bubbles doesn't make them go away either.
As for the guy who died 22 times to 0.0 choke points in a row? Thank you come again. If you can't fit a fast frigate with an mwd and a wcs I pity you.
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Microsoft Sam
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.30 13:07:00 -
[73]
i fell asleep reading the first post, is this another winge thread?
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SerialTurd
Ardent Industrial
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 14:14:00 -
[74]
Bubbles are fine. They are the only way of catching some of these insanely fast ships and others. If you start adding in mods to counter bubbles, then bubbles become worthless.
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Miner Betty
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Posted - 2007.04.30 14:17:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Microsoft Sam
i fell asleep reading the first post, is this another winge thread?
Yeah it seems these days it is easier to whine about something than to think of ways to get around it |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.30 15:15:00 -
[76]
Originally by: SerialTurd
Bubbles are fine. They are the only way of catching some of these insanely fast ships and others. If you start adding in mods to counter bubbles, then bubbles become worthless.
QFT
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.04.30 15:38:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 30/04/2007 15:34:53
NO!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 15:39:00 -
[78]
i'm running out of rulers... look, folks - once you're done measuring, pass it on to the next guy, plz
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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.04.30 17:10:00 -
[79]
Interesting..
So.. the counter to being caught in a bubble is to send in a scout.. A bubble is 100% effective at stopping a ship cold.. Any scout who goes in to check is going to die.
What is in it for the dead scout and how does knowing that one can not jump to his destination do you any good at all?
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.30 17:56:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Thesas
Interesting..
So.. the counter to being caught in a bubble is to send in a scout.. A bubble is 100% effective at stopping a ship cold.. Any scout who goes in to check is going to die.
What is in it for the dead scout and how does knowing that one can not jump to his destination do you any good at all?
Its not being able to answer simple questions like this that explain why you are in a noob corp... and why you are not likely to be invited into any other corp.
And Jenny, using a scout is not meta gaming... it's called teamwork and is one of the things that separates the successful corps and players from the chronically dead ones.
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Clorthos
Gallente
Tau Ceti Global Production
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:15:00 -
[81]
Seriously I am a Hauler 90% of the time and rat the other 10%
I fly Transports/blockade runners, frighters, ect ect.
Nerfing yes NERFING warp bubbles and interdictor spheres so that the balance of power laws in the hands of the solo person vs the multiple person gate does little for game balancing, or even fairness.
The time sink for learning interdictors vs a transport should show you that the person with the dictor/large warp bubble skills have put in the time to be able to use a weapon to have a chance at catching you. There is a reason that there are not 100k indterdictor pilots on at all, long skill trains.
Asking for a Hauler "I WIN BUTTON" is rediculous, pvping took a huge blow when the warp to gate was put in, seriously Istabs and Nanofibers on a blockade runner is as about as fast to warp as a ceptor, add a mwd and a cloak and I have yet to lose a Blockade running in 10 months on 3 accounts. Fit your ships right, it is not all about the larger cargo space a lot of times.
If you want super safe hauler then use a jump bridge and a frighter.
A dictor bubble and large bubble should present a appropriate ammount of risk for the time involved to learn those skills, likewise a blockade runner should also present a certain level of safty for it's time to learn those skills. Blockade runner should be able to evade most warp distrution mods as it's intended, it is too fast of a ship to give it all the aces as it is.
This game is about skills and playing ability vs "I looted the sword of lord seru and want my 400% humanoid bane dmg pownzors". In short fit your ship right and sometimes it takes 2 trips to do the job but you need to scout and be safe if that is what your cargo warrents.
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band0fdevs
Gallente
Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:22:00 -
[82]
CCP want bubbles to be insta death its the lazy mans way
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:24:00 -
[83]
No, thanks. If you're going to play in 0.0, you need to take risks, or take precautions.
Stop trying to take the lazy way out.
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band0fdevs
Gallente
Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:25:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
No, thanks. If you're going to play in 0.0, you need to take risks, or take precautions.
Stop trying to take the lazy way out.
ie using alts to scout
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:28:00 -
[85]
Indeed, people that claim dictor spheres or even large bubbles are inescapable have either not thought things through, or refuse to work with others.
Alt scouts are really a poor way to get past such defenses, which pleases me as I am not a fan of meta-gaming. A skillful pilot flying scout for you (either for the betterment of the corp as a whole, because he was paid, or better yet has some of his own cargo in your ship) is a far more effective solution.
A scout by definition needs to be very quick, very stealthy, or preferably both. Interceptors, covert ops, stealth bombers (believe it or not), or recon ships are ideal for this purpose... and highly survivable. And as has been pointed out, blockade runners are an excellent choice if you find yourself without a scout from time to time.
But you do need to have the skills, timing, and a clear understanding of what your ship is capable of to consistently survive bubble camps. The people who lack any of the above are the ones that claim bubble camps are inescapable and over-powered.
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band0fdevs
Gallente
Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:30:00 -
[86]
4 stealth pilots can make quick work of a interdictor
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William Hamilton
Caldari
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:34:00 -
[87]
Give bubbles 8 scram strength.
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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:43:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Its not being able to answer simple questions like this that explain why you are in a noob corp... and why you are not likely to be invited into any other corp.
Clearly I am reading the wrong message board and arrogance is no answer.
This is apparently the Elite only message boards.. where might one fine the noob version where honest questions might be answered?
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Clorthos
Gallente
Tau Ceti Global Production
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:50:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Thesas
Clearly I am reading the wrong message board and arrogance is no answer.
This is apparently the Elite only message boards.. where might one fine the noob version where honest questions might be answered?
The answer is here, but you have to expect a certain ammount of amminosity when you are asking for a nerf or limit on an established item, there are skills even at low level sp that will save you in this situation, scroll up and read them.
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Clorthos
Gallente
Tau Ceti Global Production
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:51:00 -
[90]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
I still like my idea of blockaderunners being able to fit covops cloaking devices better.
I like this idea too covops hauler for a skill please
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DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 19:07:00 -
[91]
Just die, and do not nerf my dictor bubbles or so help you *shakes fist
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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.04.30 19:08:00 -
[92]
I suggested nothing. I simply posed a question.
I see mention of ôplenty of precautions you can takeö and ôspeed, scouts, and various other waysö I simply wonder what precautions in addition to scouting.. what are the ôvarious other waysö and what is the incentive for scouts?
Sorry.. did not intend to divert from topic.. simply to understand it.
Noobs are reading this too.
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Selnix
Gallente
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 19:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Thesas
I suggested nothing. I simply posed a question.
I see mention of ôplenty of precautions you can takeö and ôspeed, scouts, and various other waysö I simply wonder what precautions in addition to scouting.. what are the ôvarious other waysö and what is the incentive for scouts?
If the scout is your own alt, then you are just looking out for yourself. If the scout is a friend or a corpmate, then you are looking out for eachother, with a reasonable expectation that things could be done with roles swapped at some future point in time should the situation warrant. If it is all a matter of the second person asking *What's in it for me?* then you have other problems aside from gatecamps that you should address. 0.0 EvE is about teamwork, if you can't play as a team and for the team, you need to head back to empire or lowsec where the lone wolf can do their thing without being a worthless drain of resources for their supposed friends.
Funny part is watching all of the alt posts and carebear posts pop up in the thread, then watching as PVPers from opposing groups all agree that bubbles need their bugs fixed, not further nerfing. We may be shooting eachother, but at least we all see things from the same perspective.
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Leonardo Sabrioski
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.01 02:25:00 -
[94]
An idea:
Give Bubbles -9 Warp strength  (more than a ship's capable low slots )
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Corwain
Gallente
Zero Team
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Posted - 2007.05.01 02:29:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Leonardo Sabrioski
An idea:
Give Bubbles -9 Warp strength (more than a ship's capable low slots)
Too bad none of the blockade runners have 8 lowslots...
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Leonardo Sabrioski
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.01 02:39:00 -
[96]
the point is that bubbles are meant to operate like that. They are in no way suppose to let "certain" ships out. And get yourself an alt... please 
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