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Low-sec Hopes and Changes

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Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4031	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:27:29 - [361] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: We will continue to play with our caps in lowsec like the game allows us to, you think they dont belong there but ccp disagrees otherwise they wouldnt be there, ok? Sure, go ahead and play. That doesnt stop me from pointing out the issues with cynos/caps existing in LS. bubbles and smartbombs (so you call them) are not a reason to remove something, they are easy avoidable, if i want to light a cyno in nullsec a fcking bubble isnt gonna stop me, so you basing that bubbles are some sort of capital ship deterant which gives some crazy advantage to engagement terms is stupid Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2506	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:31:12 - [362] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS. Citadel bashing POS bashing Other caps Combat Escalation I didnt ask you in the context I asked him. Citadel bashing, POS bashing, combat escalations, do not need cynos or caps The same happens in HS, under even stricter engagement rules, everyday, without cynos or caps. If caps are removed from LS, as I propose, you wont need caps to counter them. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3231	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:36:16 - [363] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Orakkus wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS. Citadel bashing POS bashing Other caps Combat Escalation I didnt ask you in the context I asked him. Citadel bashing, POS bashing, combat escalations, do not need cynos or caps The same happens in HS, under even stricter engagement rules, everyday, without cynos or caps. If caps are removed from LS, as I propose, you wont need caps to counter them. By your "logic" we should remove cynos and caps from null too since I can do all everything in a sub-cap there too.
Salvos Rhoska 2506	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:38:19 - [364] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: We will continue to play with our caps in lowsec like the game allows us to, you think they dont belong there but ccp disagrees otherwise they wouldnt be there, ok? Sure, go ahead and play. That doesnt stop me from pointing out the issues with cynos/caps existing in LS. bubbles and smartbombs (so you call them) are not a reason to remove something, they are easy avoidable, if i want to light a cyno in nullsec a fcking bubble isnt gonna stop me, so you basing that bubbles are some sort of capital ship deterant which gives some crazy advantage to engagement terms is stupid Nobody has said bubbles or smartbombs prevent cynos. The issue is that LS DOES have restrictions, whereas NS does not. Answer me this: -When LS has cynos and caps as does NS, but not bubbles or smartbombs, (which you have stated dont stop cynos), what is the goddam point of LS? Gateguns? Crap PI/mining/sigs compared to NS? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3231	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:39:26 - [365] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Quote: We get (hopefully!): A more comprehensible, streamlined and robust way of showing who owns a particular system A better conquest experience More organic, meaningful and fun small-fleet combat Less territorial sprawl by major alliances A more diverse and interesting political landscape More opportunities for players to get involved in nullsec More awesome emergent gameplay We know that Dominion did the OPPOSITE of all of that, and in dramatic fashion too. CCP (like Salvos does with his posts) made the mistake of thinking you can engineer people's behavior. You can't, people are opportunistic and devious and will find a way around your game design intentions. That being said I knod of hope CCP does some of the things Salvos wants to see done. It's clear that you can't just explain things to folks like that, they need to see the bad results of a thing to learn. Well they had one right no? I mean, didn't people start anchoring SBU in their own system or something like that thus making it even harder for an attacker to even try to contest SOV? That's "emergent" gameplay no?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4031	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:40:34 - [366] - Quote 1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec 2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you. lowsec does not have restrictions on using capitals Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 461	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:41:32 - [367] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: sero Hita wrote: Snip Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS. Caps/cynos are justified for ::reasons:: Explain to me how they are not justified? Has god proclaimed from on high that this is the case? Closest thing to god here is CCP, and it's written in the good book, 0.4 systems and below do not feature concord, bombs, or bubbles that's all it says. I agree it's unfortunate certain null blocs can control lowsec as well, but I don't think most of low is really controlled by the null empires. Null is paved with gold, why would those guys even care about lowsec? It would be better game design if low was somehow sheltered from the big boys in null, allowing room to grow in a hostile environment, but this is eve and change is Baaaad. I want you to think hard about this bit salvos, what makes a thing justified? A case for more AoE in EvE
Jenn aSide Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore 15371	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:41:54 - [368] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: 1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec 2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you Wait, he thinks doomsdays are 'smartbombs'? lol. He's having another "afk carrier ratting" moment.
Salvos Rhoska 2506	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:42:38 - [369] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: 1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec 2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you Wat? Getting aggressive at you? Dude, take a break from the keyboard. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3231	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:43:15 - [370] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Answer me this: -When LS has cynos and caps as does NS, but not bubbles or smartbombs, (which you have stated dont stop cynos), what is the goddam point of LS? Well 1st, you can use smartbomb in LS. You can even use them in HS. The no bubbles clause to low-sec game play is pretty interesting to many players. If you don't believe it, think for a second why interceptor are so popular.

Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4032	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:45:49 - [371] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: 1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec 2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you Wat? Getting aggressive at you? Dude, take a break from the keyboard. Salvos Rhoska wrote: How much are you being paid to shill? They should fire you, Mr. Meat-Puppet. You are terrible and lazy at your job. A one-liner? Seriously? Pretending offense? Seriously? Thats it? GJ failing to address my post. Let me re-post if for you.. Salvos Rhoska wrote: You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you. Fk off to NS where you belong. looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2507	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:51:29 - [372] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: I agree it's unfortunate certain null blocs can control lowsec as well, but I don't think most of low is really controlled by the null empires. Null is paved with gold, why would those guys even care about lowsec? It would be better game design if low was somehow sheltered from the big boys in null, allowing room to grow in a hostile environment, but this is eve and change is Baaaad. They do control LS on their axis of entry to HS, by various means. -Citadel networks to hop through. -Dropping on LS. -Alt Corps there to secure transit. They dont care about LS. They only care about getting their goods back and forth through it. Plus some incidental lols in wrecking LS Corps inorder to sustain the above. Removing cynos/caps from LS impairs that, and forces them to fight in LS on equal, gate based, sub-cap ground. They are also afraid of more subcap capable corps moving into LS (either as legit, or NS front corps of their antagonists) to further complicate their logistic route through LS to HS markets. Hence the vociferous resistance to this change by various shills. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska 2507	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:53:39 - [373] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you. Fk off to NS where you belong. looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice HTFU. EVE is aggressive. Deal with it. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3232	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:57:22 - [374] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you. Fk off to NS where you belong. looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice HTFU, meat-puppet shill. EVE is aggressive. Deal with it. HTFU Los-Sec has Cynos. Deal with it.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4034	Posted - 2017.03.20 18:59:48 - [375] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you. Fk off to NS where you belong. looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice HTFU, meat-puppet shill. EVE is aggressive. Deal with it. HTFU Los-Sec has Cynos. Deal with it. he is just salty because someone blopsed his pve boat in lowsec Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2507	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:01:32 - [376] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Snip. Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3232	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:05:46 - [377] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Snip. Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it? You don't actually need cynos anywhere in the game so saying you don't need them in low-sec is 100% irrelevant.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4034	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:06:13 - [378] - Quote cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2508	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:12:30 - [379] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets Wrong. Cynos can bypass the gatecamp(s) entirely and drop far beyond them in a distant system. Also, you dont need cynos to bypass a gatecamp. Instead use a non-gatecamped point of entry, fit correctly, scout or escort force your way through. But you are beginning to catch on to why cynos/caps should not exist in LS. Thats good. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4034	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:14:54 - [380] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets Wrong. Cynos bypass the gatecamp(s) entirely and drop far beyond them in a distant system. Also, you dont need cynos to bypass a gatecamp. Instead use a non-gatecamped point of entry, fit correctly, scout or escort force your way through. But you are beginning to catch on to why cynos/caps should not exist in LS. Thats good. how do people engage an organised gatecamp which can see a fleet of subcaps from 2 jumps out? but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson

Salvos Rhoska 2508	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:15:36 - [381] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Snip. Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it? You don't actually need cynos anywhere in the game so saying you don't need them in low-sec is 100% irrelevant. Then why are cynos disallowed in HS? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska 2508	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:19:38 - [382] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 333	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:19:51 - [383] - Quote Okay, trying to bring back the conversation to producing some useful results.. I am sure someone posted something like this earlier, but I am wondering what you all might think of it. Have low-sec gates turn off for a period of time. Not randomly, but in a predictable period.. say 5 to 20 minutes out of every hour depending on the security level. While the amount of time the gate is off stays the same, when it goes off changes daily, and you can buy a constellation's information with some isk or LP depending on your standing with the local faction. This would allow players to be invested in developing local industry, because if they have good faction they can keep up with when the gates close and open, giving them more control over risk. WIth a higher perceived level of control, more people will move out to low-sec. With more people out to low-sec, more content would be provided to those who want to pirate. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4034	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:25:49 - [384] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. it does because all i simply need to do is put scouts in each surrounding system around where i am camping, i dont need to worry about someone dropping blops, or capitals, i can see any hostile fleet coming into my system and i can just warp off the gate. currently all someone needs to do is have a nuetral cyno jump in system and gg gatecamp gets rekt'd by a ton of blops and nobody has any time to respond because its over in the blink of an eye thats a buff to gatecamps Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2508	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:37:37 - [385] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. it does because all i simply need to do is put scouts in each surrounding system around where i am camping, i dont need to worry about someone dropping blops, or capitals, i can see any hostile fleet coming into my system and i can just warp off the gate. currently all someone needs to do is have a nuetral cyno jump in system and gg gatecamp gets rekt'd by a ton of blops and nobody has any time to respond because its over in the blink of an eye thats a buff to gatecamps It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. It really is that simple. Gate camps remain the same. Its not a buff to gate camps, its the elimination of the option of jumping past them. Post-change, you dont have to worry about blops reking your cyno. If you want to pass through LS, prepare, fit, choose path, and either sneak through or fight through. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 461	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:38:02 - [386] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: I want you to think hard about this bit salvos, what makes a thing justified? A case for more AoE in EvE
Salvos Rhoska 2508	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:41:00 - [387] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: I want you to think hard about this bit salvos, what makes a thing justified? Game mechanics and structure. Equilibrium as a rational totality. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 461	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:44:44 - [388] - Quote There is no such thing as rational totality. There is also no such thing as justice, or any objective morality. We are alone to decide for ourselves what is right and what should be. There's thousands of years of proof people can't agree what should be. In the context of eve, CCP decide what is right, they are god here. They literally create the (game) universe. A case for more AoE in EvE
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3232	Posted - 2017.03.20 19:44:44 - [389] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Post-change, you dont have to worry about blops reking your cyno. Blops aren't reking cynos. They use cynos to squash gatecamp. Your though process is all over the place man...
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1583	Posted - 2017.03.20 20:05:05 - [390] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Post-change, you dont have to worry about blops reking your cyno. Blops aren't reking cynos. They use cynos to squash gatecamp. Your though process is all over the place man... He doesn't understand cyno, he's shown that before when he thought you cyno off grid and then warp to the target, giving them plenty of time with d-scan to know what you have and warp out. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."



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