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Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:16:38 - [511] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Your idea destroys content. My idea creates content by making gatecamps conflict drivers, as they should be. No more lol-cynoing past them. No more lol-dropping caps on them. Beat it with subcaps, as the gatecamp is sub-caps itself. Or route through uncamped gates. Or fly your cargo in ships that can pass the gatecamp. There is currently vast wealth cynoing right over your head in LS. You dont get any content from it. I aim to remedy that. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1587	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:16:44 - [512] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them. We can't. When did this change happen? Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:18:05 - [513] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Not every system has customers. Every system has customers. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:19:26 - [514] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them. We can't. When did this change happen? Hur-dur. Post-change, obviously. Read name of thread again? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1587	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:19:28 - [515] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Not every system has customers. Every system has customers. Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate. Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4058	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:20:42 - [516] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: [Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you. +1 im done with this noodle brain he doesnt have a clue Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:24:06 - [517] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Not every system has customers. Every system has customers. Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate.. Tell me one system that doesnt have customers? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Scialt Universal Sanitation Corporation 65	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:24:07 - [518] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Scialt wrote: Snip Escort your cargo and clear the gates for transit. Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them. As I said before... what I do in low-sec is FW. I'll probably move to be nearly full-time in null with this change were it to be implemented. I agree it will make it more difficult for people transporting stuff. It will also make it more difficult for everyone else to move around aside from gatecampers in low-sec... including me looking for small-group and solo fights in complexes. Which is the point that I was making that you're trying to minimize. The impact of your change is to make the only residents of low-sec be gatecampers and the primary visitors being large null-sec groups moving stuff from null to high-sec. You'll drive most everyone else out. Low-sec will simply be a gatecamp zone that people who MUST travel through will have to deal with and everyone else will avoid. I don't see that as being beneficial to low-sec in general.
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:24:57 - [519] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: [Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you. +1 im done with this noodle brain he doesnt have a clue Bye! PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 336	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:27:40 - [520] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Orakkus wrote: Your idea destroys content. My idea creates content by making gatecamps conflict drivers, as they should be. No more lol-cynoing past them. No more lol-dropping caps on them. Beat it with subcaps, as the gatecamp is sub-caps itself. Or route through uncamped gates. Or fly your cargo in ships that can pass the gatecamp. Gatecamps were never conflict drivers, they were only content. Conflict drivers required groups of people operating at a strategic level. While your idea would become a conflict driver.. it would remove other, more effect conflict drivers that have a larger impact on the game, and involve more people. So yes, your idea would destroy content without good reason and would disenfranchise far more people than you know. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 336	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:28:30 - [521] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Not every system has customers. Every system has customers. Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate.. Tell me one system that doesnt have customers? Empty ones.. like the ones that would exist under your perpetually bad ideas. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:33:52 - [522] - Quote Scialt wrote: As I said before... what I do in low-sec is FW. Low-sec will simply be a gatecamp zone that people who MUST travel through will have to deal with and everyone else will avoid. I don't see that as being beneficial to low-sec in general. 1) FW LS and LS, are different. 2) HS-NS material transport will never stop, and it MUST travel through LS unless they find WHs. 3) If cynos/caps are removed from LS, you wont believe the amount of sub-cap freighters that suddenly appear moving the material through gates, rather than cynoing past you. 4) You will be drowning in a ceaseless flood of sub-cap freighters and targets. Its a pirates paradise. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:38:02 - [523] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Not every system has customers. Every system has customers. Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate.. Tell me one system that doesnt have customers? Empty ones.. like the ones that would exist under your perpetually bad ideas. This is a nonsense point. If you dont have customers, your price or product is bad. Thats your own fault. Every system in EVE, has a market. If you find one that doesnt, GJ! Make your own there. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 336	Posted - 2017.03.22 19:48:09 - [524] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: This is a nonsense point. If you dont have customers, your price or product is bad. Thats your own fault. Every system in EVE, has a market. If you find one that doesnt, GJ! Make your own there. You clearly don't have any idea what it takes to develop a market in Eve, and you can't have "bad" products in Eve, so that point you made is bogus. And while every system in Eve can have a station with a market in it, putting up a market in every system is not very efficient, nor does it mean that it will be profitable. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Salvos Rhoska 2527	Posted - 2017.03.22 20:04:51 - [525] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: This is a nonsense point. If you dont have customers, your price or product is bad. Thats your own fault. Every system in EVE, has a market. If you find one that doesnt, GJ! Make your own there. You clearly don't have any idea what it takes to develop a market in Eve, and you can't have "bad" products in Eve, so that point you made is bogus. And while every system in Eve can have a station with a market in it, putting up a market in every system is not very efficient, nor does it mean that it will be profitable. 1) There are "bad" products, in terms of there being no demand for it there. 2) Its not about you putting up a market in every system. My point was there IS a market in every system. 3) Whether it is profitable or not, is up to you. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 8251	Posted - 2017.03.22 20:46:49 - [526] - Quote Maximillian Bonaparte wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Maximillian Bonaparte wrote: Snip There are 3400 NS systems to use JFs inorder to bypass bubbles/gatecamps. Use them there, where they belong. JFs with cynos make a mockery of LS. I remember the days when convoys to move stuff were a thing - along with security for them through space. I was too new to be a part of it, but I have seen endless posts and descriptions about it. The effort a corp/alliance had to put in it, and the things that happened around it. It was on the level of being at war, and a corp could get its back broken on poor planning or poor security. Of the many things that killed lowsec, JFs was one of them. Maybe but all I know is that today no one who lives in lwosec ever makes an argument against cyno's really. An I like to use my JF to get stuff in. Otherwise I would NOT live in lowsec. Be silent then. Notice that CCP has been cracking down on things you can do solo except trading and mindlessly easy canned exploration. Shhhhhhhh. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 8251	Posted - 2017.03.22 20:53:41 - [527] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Orakkus wrote: So, does everyone have their own idea about how to make low-sec good, I don't know about everyone, but I do. Get rid of it. All you need is lawful space and lawless space. No need for some in between space that makes no one happy. Mr Epeen Were it up to me (and my sig) every system would be highsec. And lowsec. And nullsec. Highsec would be the planets and gates zone of the solar system, the planets and gates that matter to commerce and are therefore protected. Lowsec would be the backwater planets, the outer orbits. You can do bad things, but people are gonna know about it. Nullsec would be the space beyond the system, way beyond. And there would even be gates way out there. And deep space exploration too with much wonder and darkness and risk. All in one system. Every system. But.... we can't have nice things. It's only a pipe dream anyway. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 8251	Posted - 2017.03.22 20:55:12 - [528] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Orakkus wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: This is a nonsense point. If you dont have customers, your price or product is bad. Thats your own fault. Every system in EVE, has a market. If you find one that doesnt, GJ! Make your own there. You clearly don't have any idea what it takes to develop a market in Eve, and you can't have "bad" products in Eve, so that point you made is bogus. And while every system in Eve can have a station with a market in it, putting up a market in every system is not very efficient, nor does it mean that it will be profitable. 1) There are "bad" products, in terms of there being no demand for it there. 2) Its not about you putting up a market in every system. My point was there IS a market in every system. 3) Whether it is profitable or not, is up to you. Yes there's a market in every system. I recall back in 2008 the crew camping the Parts system was selling shuttles for 8 million a piece. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Scialt Universal Sanitation Corporation 65	Posted - 2017.03.22 20:58:46 - [529] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Scialt wrote: As I said before... what I do in low-sec is FW. Low-sec will simply be a gatecamp zone that people who MUST travel through will have to deal with and everyone else will avoid. I don't see that as being beneficial to low-sec in general. 1) FW LS and LS, are different. 2) HS-NS material transport will never stop, and it MUST travel through LS unless they find WHs. 3) If cynos/caps are removed from LS, you wont believe the amount of sub-cap freighters that suddenly appear moving the material through gates, rather than cynoing past you. 4) You will be drowning in a ceaseless flood of sub-cap valuable freighters and targets. It will be a pirates paradise, both for PvP and raw real value. And all the gatecamps that will create will drive me from FW. These changes will impact FW space... because if they don't everyone will cyno there to bring their goods to market. So the gatecamps will be in FW space as well. It will drive non-gatecampers from low-sec. Why are you unwilling to see the impact of creating a ton of extra gatecamps throughout low-sec while simultaneously taking away the ability to bypass those gatecamps? I'm not a gate camper. This only helps gatecampers and has the side effect of driving all non-gatecamper residents from low-sec. It will even drive pirates who don't want to camp gates away.
Vokan Narkar New Eden Traders Aliance 6	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:20:06 - [530] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Orakkus wrote: In addition, in order to make Low-sec more viable it NEEDS cynos and caps. It needs to develop an industrial base, and you can't have that if you can't import and export materials and goods. And you can't have an industrial base without people, and you can't have people without some measure of safety and convenience. And once you have more people, then and only then do you get more content. Explain how LS industry cant be viable without cynos or caps. Once cynos/caps are removed, your import/export is improved, as you dont need to fear cyno/cap drops that grossly exceed your effort or capacity to deal with them. no its not because you need to take gates through pirate infested space! No you don't have to. You can wait for any WH into HS or WH chain into HS. Safe WH (chain) will appear in specific system at least once per week if you have connexes to get this information or players who can search for it.

Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4058	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:23:02 - [531] - Quote Vokan Narkar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Orakkus wrote: In addition, in order to make Low-sec more viable it NEEDS cynos and caps. It needs to develop an industrial base, and you can't have that if you can't import and export materials and goods. And you can't have an industrial base without people, and you can't have people without some measure of safety and convenience. And once you have more people, then and only then do you get more content. Explain how LS industry cant be viable without cynos or caps. Once cynos/caps are removed, your import/export is improved, as you dont need to fear cyno/cap drops that grossly exceed your effort or capacity to deal with them. no its not because you need to take gates through pirate infested space! No you don't have to. You can wait for any WH into HS or WH chain into HS. Safe WH (chain) will appear in specific system at least once per week if you have connexes to get this information or players who can search for it. thats such a reliable solution! if its that easy why are cyno's and freighters a problem in lowsec again? i forget Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Vokan Narkar New Eden Traders Aliance 6	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:46:57 - [532] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Quote: Quote: no its not because you need to take gates through pirate infested space! No you don't have to. You can wait for any WH into HS or WH chain into HS. Safe WH (chain) will appear in specific system at least once per week if you have connexes to get this information or players who can search for it. thats such a reliable solution! if its that easy why are cyno's and freighters a problem in lowsec again? i forget how long have you been playing eve? and what is it you do in eve, do you run a logistics wing for any sort of lowsec or nullsec alliance? Wut? lol WHs have nothing to do with cyno - its the other way around. You don't need WH (chain) because you can simply use JF to get bring the goods in and out. WHs are now only for those who didnt skilled JF yet. Because traveling through gcs is pain already and while I can use Blockade Runner to get past gc, it doesn't have too high cargo and sometimes you need to bring ships and minerals to the LS. The problems you claim that will happen if cyno will be removed from ls are problems already. But only to those who can't afford JF or can't fly it. But then there are backdoors in form of WH who solves the issue the only disadvantage is that you must wait till they appear as opposed to bring a JF every day at same time. Who am I, how long do I play and what I do is not relevant to the discussion. But I play long enough and tried all types of space and all activities you can do in this game except POS maintaining. Lan Wang wrote: this is a reply to another post you have posted... Vokan Narkar wrote: First - thats the problem here. In order to compress ore I have to travel 5 jumps through lowsec. Not very viable with Tayra which have the 25k only when you max cargo-upgrade it which makes it a one-shot fit not suitable to fly through lowsec. Miasmos has double the cargohold and can be fitted with stabs/intertials. Even if the route wouldn't be through lowsec, its twice as much jumps with the bigger industrial compared to what Gallente alpha clone can do with Miasmos. GG mate This is why Im not using main character on this forum anymore. Unless you propose something which makes it easier to destroy ships players like you will start digging on you telling you that you don't play 10 years as they do and you know nothing about this game, mocking you, your killboard or even telling you that you should not play this game as its obviously not for someone who plays how you play. So mature!
Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 338	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:48:32 - [533] - Quote Since this thread hasn't been locked, or commented on by the CSM or Devs, it is clear they want us to keep throwing punches. However, all this is now moot. With the addition of the refineries, this will definitely change things up... particularly in low-sec. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4058	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:49:56 - [534] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Since this thread hasn't been locked, or commented on by the CSM or Devs, it is clear they want us to keep throwing punches. However, all this is now moot. With the addition of the refineries, this will definitely change things up... particularly in low-sec. rip lowsec Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Orakkus Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 338	Posted - 2017.03.22 21:55:39 - [535] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: rip lowsec Maybe, with passive moon mining gone, many of the might PVP alliances will have to readjust, and much of that adjustment will require time that normally went to personal or PVP activities to go to corp/alliance activities. This MAY be useful to low-sec in that null-sec alliances won't have the manpower to staff all the moons they had previously. This could open the way up for low-sec alliances and corps to start organizing and "claiming" sections of space for those resources. Though, I do have a concern about how that will interact with the structure of low-sec. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4058	Posted - 2017.03.22 22:05:11 - [536] - Quote Vokan Narkar wrote: stupid stuff what salvos is proposing is making it easier to kill ships...im a gatecamper and know his ideas are buffing gatecamping to the high hills and giving me a ton more industrial kills which will break the game. no! being immune to be dropped by blops and capitals while i gatecamp a major traffic route is not a problem right now, removing cynos makes my gatecamping immune to suprise drops means i set up a couple of alts an my shiney ships will NEVER be killed while i farm anything that comes into my system. if you run a large logistics operation for a half decent lowsec or null alliance waiting a week for a wormhole from LS-HS or NS-HS to restock a market with ships after a loss from a fight is not a reliable solution! how long you have been playing and what you do is relevant because you dont know what youre talking about and the other comment proves you also feel its stupid to move any sort of industrial via gates in lowsec, let alone 10+bil worth of jump freighter and cargo which is pretty much like moving an unfitted carrier by gate through blackrise. Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4058	Posted - 2017.03.22 22:17:16 - [537] - Quote Orakkus wrote: Lan Wang wrote: rip lowsec Maybe, with passive moon mining gone, many of the mighty PVP alliances will have to readjust, and much of that adjustment will require time that normally went to personal or PVP activities to go to corp/alliance activities. This MAY be useful to low-sec in that null-sec alliances won't have the manpower to staff all the moons they had previously. This could open the way up for low-sec alliances and corps to start organizing and "claiming" sections of space for those resources. Though, I do have a concern about how that will interact with the structure of low-sec. i dont even know what to think of this change tbh, i dont do anything "carebear" so it makes me wonder what will happen, i kinda moved here to just pvp, i can see a lot of changes to doctrines coming in the future, lowsec always seemed to have the shiney ships, i can see that phasing out, however as i say i know nothing of moon mining etc, id large alliances of lowsec dominating lowsec, or even the large nullblocs dominating lowsec income with super fleet back up. i dunno tbh but i agree this whole thread now becomes moot Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Vokan Narkar New Eden Traders Aliance 7	Posted - 2017.03.23 00:57:56 - [538] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Vokan Narkar wrote: stupid stuff what salvos is proposing is making it easier to kill ships... Is it? All I see in this thread is that you scream that without cyno you can't destroy enemy gc because they will always run from you and dock on station. Which is reasonable to expect if they get scouts behind every gate out of the system. Because as we know, PvP in eve is always about advantage - you know their gc composition so you take ships that counters them, stronger ships or just drop a capitals on their heads. And if you can't drop capitals on their heads and they will see you coming in double their count sure as hell they won't stay on that gate to fight you I don't think that removing cyno from ls will suddenly drag industrials and missioners into gates. Those who does pve or industry in ls live in some abadoned ls that is not on any main route or fw. Main hs entry ls gates are already camped 23/7 and therefore anyone who lives in hs and flies to ls to do a mission knows its a bad idea already. Nothing will change in that. Also, players now needs JF to move their goods to trade hubs because there is no demain in ls right? Lets break it why there is no demand why there are no customers. 1) local market doesn't provide enough stocks of what you want or doesn't offer what you want at all 2) offer is scattered amongs multiple sectors, its easier to buy all things on trade hub in hs and get it to ls with JF than to fly to 5 sectors to get what you want 3) items on the market in ls are (far) more expensive than in trade hub in hs 4) given to 1,2 and 3 players don't buy from local market 5) given to 4, players don't sell on local market because nobody would buy it anyway 6) even ls lone wolfs usually have the opportunity to request anything they want from trade hub by local JF supplier for a little extra ISK. those in corp have this opportunity almost everywhere - you order we bring it Due to this market in ls is next to non-existant. But if cyno wouldn't be allowed in ls this all might change. We can't know what will realistically happen if this gets implemented, it can be the dark scenario you presented but it can also establish a market in lowsec. All we know is that there will be: - harder to get goods in and out of ls - massive increase in pirate gangs in ls This could create an opportunity for anyone able to make ships and fits inside the ls to sell them on local market. This could therefore bring more industry corps to supply pirate gangs with their ships. This could make an opportunities for all the small-scale traders running in blockade runner/interceptor or moving through WHs.This could allow ns alliances to sell their minerals on ls market because industrials can't really mine in so dangerous space. Thats how I see it.
Coralas Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2017.03.23 05:41:35 - [539] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: [ 3) Smaller entities can expand into Player Sov through the far wider web of connections in NS itself. Yes, invading NS with cynos/caps from LS will no longer be possible. You can however operate in LS instead with sub-caps to cripple that bordering NS entities access to HS markets, and back. it is such a poor idea. ie : you can't invade null unless you hold null. The best recipe for stagnation and supersized entities. The biggest 3 or 4 nullsec entities will hold the useful invasion routes and secure them all the way up to high and then they will control all of the entities behind them, and starve out anything unaligned. After which everything else behind that will form the new rental empires, safe from small groups and easily counter attacked if they are attacked, since your plan is to hamstring travel in lowsec - effectively turning the universe inside out, making the exterior travel line faster than the interior line! It would even be much harder to run an unaligned group in deep NPC null, since you can't dock anywhere but the NPC null, and you can't jump out of the NPC null over the surrounding red space to haul supplies, you would literally have to cyno into populated chokes and then shift to gate travel, all on the nullsec side.
Salvos Rhoska 2536	Posted - 2017.03.23 07:31:24 - [540] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: what salvos is proposing is making it easier to kill ships...im a gatecamper and know his ideas are buffing gatecamping to the high hills and giving me a ton more industrial kills which will break the game. no! being immune to be dropped by blops and capitals while i gatecamp a major traffic route is not a problem right now, removing cynos makes my gatecamping immune to suprise drops means i set up a couple of alts an my shiney ships will NEVER be killed while i farm anything that comes into my system. Your gatecamp WILL get attacked by HS-NS entities which want to transit their materials, and other LS entities which want to camp the gate themselves. Gates will become conflict drivers. You are grossly undervaluing the sheer mass of materials that will gate transit after cynos/caps are removed from LS. That content/value is currently cynoing right over your head. You will be drowning in targets, and you will have to compete for control of the gate. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent



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