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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 20:55:51 -
[391] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS.
It doesn't matter if it is justified or not. It doesn't have to be. It says no where that every mechanic has to be justified, that is only in your head.
Besides I already have: power projection for lowsec groups, giving people the posibillity to set up traps etc. One can clearly feel that you are not playing in lowsec. Because usually lowsec groups hotdrop other lowsec groups, and not like you think: nullsec hotdropping lowsec. Even the fw militias (Galmil/calmil) have used caps when taking systems in the past(One being stopped by an incursion suddenly not allowing cynos and breaking down the logistics chain feeding ships to the grinder, ending the siege). And i also think the ability to escalate above your enemy is reason enough tbh.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 20:58:50 -
[392] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:In the context of eve, CCP decide what is right, they are god here. They literally create the (game) universe. EVE is a machine. It has no life of its own. Nor is it a perfect machine. It has flaws.
It is created and populated by people whom are fallible.
That CCP decides what they do with their machine, does not mean their decisions are right, rational or justified.
There is a distinction between the games mechanical parts, and its organic parts (us as players and CCP).
In my view, cynos/caps in LS are a dysfunctional part of the machine.
NS exists over 3400 systems in which to use cynos/caps. LS exists as a slim border between HS and NS of only 817 systems.
I have at length explained the inequity between NS dropping into LS vs LS dropping into NS. I have at length explained that LS content, nor gatecamps, do not require cynos/caps.
Caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS.
I understand the misgivings of LS/NS (whichever or, or however organised) about losing cynos/caps in LS for whatever purpose they currently enjoy it as. Some expressed overtly, some vested.
But caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS. NPC Null is ideal if you want LS style non-sov. Its a vast emptiness. Player Sov is ideal if you want conflict.
These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions.
Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions?
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:06:25 -
[393] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS.
Salvos, you are not understanding. Lan Wang Means that cynos are the counter to gatecamps right now. Because if you slow boat to them, they will see you on d-scan and leave. If you light a cyno on the gatecamp, your backup fleet will jump bridge in and appear immidiately and the whole gatecap won't get away. It has NOHTING to do with jumping over the gatecamp
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3237
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:07:25 -
[394] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:In the context of eve, CCP decide what is right, they are god here. They literally create the (game) universe. EVE is a machine. It has no life of its own. Nor is it a perfect machine. It has flaws. It is created and populated by people whom are fallible. That CCP decides what they do with their machine, does not mean their decisions are right, rational or justified. There is a distinction between the games mechanical parts, and its organic parts (us as players and CCP). In my view, cynos/caps in LS are a dysfunctional part of the machine. NS exists over 3400 systems in which to use cynos/caps. LS exists as a slim border between HS and NS of only 817 systems. I have at length explained the inequity between NS dropping into LS vs LS dropping into NS. I have at length explained that LS content, nor gatecamps, do not require cynos/caps. Caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS. I understand the misgivings of LS/NS (whichever or, or however organised) about losing cynos/caps in LS for whatever purpose they currently enjoy it as. Some expressed overtly, some vested. But caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS. NPC Null is ideal if you want LS style non-sov. Its a vast emptiness. Player Sov is ideal if you want conflict. These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions. Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions?
I really wonder how you manage to post while holding your hands over your ears because there is no way you haven't understood how nonsensical your point is beside blatantly ignoring people while chanting lalalalala. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4040
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:10:05 -
[395] - Quote
we are in lowsec because we dont like nullsec, how hard is that for you to understand? the current mechanics in lowsec allow for a range of different gameplay options and logistics is easier for people who dont want to rely on using huge logistics networks.
nullsec do not walk over lowsec by projecting caps in every system, nullsec do not own or dominate lowsec either, thats all in your head
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:12:04 -
[396] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions.
Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions?
Well, why stay in lowsec... FW, no bubbles, a nice mixture of solo and fleet. But I thank you, because i actually see the solution to buffing lowsec now. Let's remove NPC null, lowsec does it better anyway.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Othran
Route One
767
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:12:12 -
[397] - Quote
Get rid of lowsec is probably the easiest answer. Maybe not the best but easy.
If you can deploy supers in lowsec which cannot be built there then whats the point of it?
Either have lowsec as true pirate space - no caps of any sort (JFs excepted) allowed once POS are gone or get rid of it. This would be my preferred solution.
If not then turn it into hisec or null & put the FW systems on their own blades - that'd save a lot of cpu cycles. |
Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:12:20 -
[398] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. Salvos, you are not understanding. Lan Wang Means that cynos are the counter to gatecamps right now. Because if you slow boat to them, they will see you on d-scan and leave. If you light a cyno on the gatecamp, your backup fleet will jup bridge in and appear immidiately and the whole gatecap won't get away. It has NOHTING to do with jumping over the gatecamp
If cynos/caps are removed from LS, this becomes a non-issue.
Either go through another gate, fit for travel, or brute force yourself through.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:14:55 -
[399] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. Salvos, you are not understanding. Lan Wang Means that cynos are the counter to gatecamps right now. Because if you slow boat to them, they will see you on d-scan and leave. If you light a cyno on the gatecamp, your backup fleet will jup bridge in and appear immidiately and the whole gatecap won't get away. It has NOHTING to do with jumping over the gatecamp If cynos/caps are removed from LS, this becomes a non-issue. Either go through another gate, fit for travel, or brute force yourself through. So not killing them then before they warp off... why should lowsec gatecaps be more secure? I don't get it
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:15:09 -
[400] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:In the context of eve, CCP decide what is right, they are god here. They literally create the (game) universe. EVE is a machine. It has no life of its own. Nor is it a perfect machine. It has flaws. It is created and populated by people whom are fallible. That CCP decides what they do with their machine, does not mean their decisions are right, rational or justified. There is a distinction between the games mechanical parts, and its organic parts (us as players and CCP). In my view, cynos/caps in LS are a dysfunctional part of the machine. NS exists over 3400 systems in which to use cynos/caps. LS exists as a slim border between HS and NS of only 817 systems. I have at length explained the inequity between NS dropping into LS vs LS dropping into NS. I have at length explained that LS content, nor gatecamps, do not require cynos/caps. Caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS. I understand the misgivings of LS/NS (whichever or, or however organised) about losing cynos/caps in LS for whatever purpose they currently enjoy it as. Some expressed overtly, some vested. But caps/cynos, rationally, mechanically, belong in NS. NPC Null is ideal if you want LS style non-sov. Its a vast emptiness. Player Sov is ideal if you want conflict. These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions. Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions? I really wonder how you manage to post while holding your hands over your ears because there is no way you haven't understood how nonsensical your point is beside blatantly ignoring people while chanting lalalalala.
The irony, when you ignored my post, stuck your fingers in your ears and lalalalad right past it.
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:17:19 -
[401] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions.
Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions?
Well, why stay in lowsec... FW, no bubbles, a nice mixture of solo and fleet. But I thank you, because i actually see the solution to buffing lowsec now. Let's remove NPC null, lowsec does it better anyway.
NPC Null does do it better. And more rationally.
Which supports that LS is not a place for cynos/caps.
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:20:45 -
[402] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:So not killing them then before they warp off... why should lowsec gatecaps be more secure? I don't get it
Wat?
How does lack of cynos/caps in LS make gate camps more secure?
Its standard procedure without cyno.
Either choose another gate, sneak through, travel fit, or brute force through.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4040
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:20:57 -
[403] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote: but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping. It doesnt buff gatecamps. Just removes jumping over them in LS. Salvos, you are not understanding. Lan Wang Means that cynos are the counter to gatecamps right now. Because if you slow boat to them, they will see you on d-scan and leave. If you light a cyno on the gatecamp, your backup fleet will jup bridge in and appear immidiately and the whole gatecap won't get away. It has NOHTING to do with jumping over the gatecamp If cynos/caps are removed from LS, this becomes a non-issue. Either go through another gate, fit for travel, or brute force yourself through.
fml, fine buff gatecamps, im good with that, i dont need to worry about people dropping me in tama anymore, gg well done
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:26:21 -
[404] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:fml, fine buff gatecamps, im good with that, i dont need to worry about people dropping me in tama anymore, gg well done
1) It doesnt buff gatecamps. Nothing changes for gatecamps. 2) Good, now you begin to understand. You no longer need to fear drops or caps in Tama. Just gate transiting subcaps, locals popping out of structures/offline, or WH trespassers.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:27:56 -
[405] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
These spaces already exist for cyno/cap play, without restrictions.
Why then are they staying in LS? Why are they arguing for LS to keep cynos/caps, when NS is out there already, with no restrictions?
Well, why stay in lowsec... FW, no bubbles, a nice mixture of solo and fleet. But I thank you, because i actually see the solution to buffing lowsec now. Let's remove NPC null, lowsec does it better anyway. NPC Null does do it better. And more rationally. Which supports that LS is not a place for cynos/caps.
So just repeating the same carbage about rationality, and not reflecting on what people write?? How do you deal with the real world being so inflexible and rigid in your thinking? That something is more rational for you, is not a reason to prefer something over another. It is no argument but a statement. Hope you understand the difference
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4041
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:28:25 -
[406] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote:fml, fine buff gatecamps, im good with that, i dont need to worry about people dropping me in tama anymore, gg well done 1) It doesnt buff gatecamps. Nothing changes for gatecamps. 2) Good, now you begin to understand. You no longer need to fear drops. Just gate transiting subcaps.
IT BUFFS GATECAMPS BECAUSE REMOVING CYNOS MEAN HOSTILES CAN NO LONGER LIGHT A CYNO AT 0 ON A GATECAMP TO KILL THE CAMPERS
Salvos if you dont understand how cyno's work stfu
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
319
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:32:57 -
[407] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote:fml, fine buff gatecamps, im good with that, i dont need to worry about people dropping me in tama anymore, gg well done 1) It doesnt buff gatecamps. Nothing changes for gatecamps. Ofc it does gatecamps will not be hotdropped anymore and are safe. Hotdrops is the only real threat for gatecamps right now. They have eyes on all gates so they will be gone before you "Bruteforce" your way through. How can you not understand this? This plus your comments in that other thread about seing the fleet before they hotdrop on d-scan, makes me wonder did you ever hotdrop someone salvos, because I think you might not have understood how it works at all.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:43:44 -
[408] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:IT BUFFS GATECAMPS BECAUSE REMOVING CYNOS MEAN HOSTILES CAN NO LONGER LIGHT A CYNO AT 0 ON A GATECAMP TO KILL THE CAMPERS
Lolwat.
Do you need a cyno to kill an LS gatecamp?
Just bring more subcaps through the gate, or a better fleet, and fight.
Or enter LS through another gate.
Standard procedure.
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:47:04 -
[409] - Quote
sero Hita wrote: so they will be gone before you "Bruteforce" your way through.
So what?
That means you are now in LS, without having to defeat a gatecamp.
Go ahead thereafter and run rampant through LS as you wish, with no worry of a hot drop and/or caps.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:48:47 -
[410] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lan Wang wrote:IT BUFFS GATECAMPS BECAUSE REMOVING CYNOS MEAN HOSTILES CAN NO LONGER LIGHT A CYNO AT 0 ON A GATECAMP TO KILL THE CAMPERS Lolwat. Do you need a cyno to kill an LS gatecamp? Just bring more subcaps through the gate, or a better fleet, and fight. Or enter LS through another gate. Standard procedure.
The gatecamp will see you and leave FFS. I have gatecamped Ichoriya gate plenty of times, and we would always have eyes in all surrounding systems. You cannot get on top of an organized gatecamp by jumping through the gate with a big fleet.
How any times have you succesfully done as you have described above Salvos?
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:51:47 -
[411] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:The gatecamp will see you and leave FFS.
So?
Ofc they leave if they see a larger/better fleet arriving. Whats wrong with that?
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:52:08 -
[412] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote: so they will be gone before you "Bruteforce" your way through. So what? That means you are now in LS, without having to defeat a gatecamp. Go ahead thereafter and run rampant through LS as you wish.
We live in lowsec. we want to defeat the gatecamp. No reason to jump into low. We roam to kill stuff, gatecamps are stuff, that hinder our logistics. So we kill them to deter them from caping in our spot or to help a ate move something through. Not everyone lives in highsec
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:53:31 -
[413] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:The gatecamp will see you and leave FFS. So? Ofc they leave if they see a larger/better fleet arriving. Whats wrong with that?
then there is no risk. With cynos there is risk, that they get killed. And that is one of many reasons why cynos are needed in lowsec. To add risk to gatecamps
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 21:57:51 -
[414] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:We live in lowsec. we want to defeat the gatecamp.
If the gatecamp runs away, it is defeated. Its no longer a gatecamp with no one there.
Good for you.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4042
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:01:23 -
[415] - Quote
this is what happens when carebears get stupid ideas about pvp mechanics
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:02:27 -
[416] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:We live in lowsec. we want to defeat the gatecamp. If the gatecamp runs away, it is defeated. Its no longer a gatecamp with no one there. Good for you.
So here is the thing we are discussion why cynos are needed. I have just explained it to you. That you don't think that killing the gatecamps to send a signal is important, so they are not back 5 mins later is not my problem. You are twisting the conversation in another direction now. You don't have to rationalize if I need to kill the gatecamp or not. It is my freetime and my game to play.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:04:50 -
[417] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:The gatecamp will see you and leave FFS. So? Ofc they leave if they see a larger/better fleet arriving. Whats wrong with that? then there is no risk. With cynos there is risk, that they get killed. And that is one of many reasons why cynos are needed in lowsec. To add risk to gatecamps
You dont need cynos to defeat a gatecamp. Just run them off. No one at the gate=no gatecamp=gatecamp defeated.
Your perspective on risk is perverse. You dont need cynos for risk in LS.
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Salvos Rhoska
2510
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:10:02 -
[418] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:That you don't think that killing the gatecamps to send a signal is important, so they are not back 5 mins later is not my problem.
Its not my problem either if you fail to hold the gate 5mins later.
What is this "send a signal" bullshit? What koolaid are you drinking?
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:12:38 -
[419] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:The gatecamp will see you and leave FFS. So? Ofc they leave if they see a larger/better fleet arriving. Whats wrong with that? then there is no risk. With cynos there is risk, that they get killed. And that is one of many reasons why cynos are needed in lowsec. To add risk to gatecamps You dont need cynos to defeat a gatecamp. Just run them off. No one at the gate=no gatecamp=gatecamp defeated. Your perspective on risk is perverse. You dont need cynos for risk in LS.
Perverse... really??? Trying to make me look bad, by associating me with loaded words... classy. All this just because I don't agree with you. Is this respecting other peoples right to express themselves like you cried about in another thread that no one does with you???
My perspective is btw. not relevant. Protecting the highsec entrances for our alliance logistics is relevant. Killing them unexpectedly with a cyno so they have a big loss, and fear every ship will be a cyno will make them move to another gate. Scaring them off with a big fleet, keeps them away when they see a big fleet. When the fleet dock they are there again. And you are ****** at the timezones where you don-Št have fleet big enough to scare them off.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2017.03.20 22:13:53 -
[420] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:sero Hita wrote:That you don't think that killing the gatecamps to send a signal is important, so they are not back 5 mins later is not my problem. Its not my problem either if you fail to hold the gate 5mins later. What is this "send a signal" bullshit? What koolaid are you drinking?
So you don't understand words or what is happening? it is pretty clear I think. Newsflash is it not a new group camping the gate everyday...... People fight over the gates to camp, and you know who your rivals are
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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